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Is this an emotional affair?
UPDATE: Sorry peeps, didn't know I could update by "editing" original thread post . Just go to page 4 for the next chapter of Shero's saga. I will pm all of the original posters to my thread; you all helped clarify my thoughts...and for that, I will be forever grateful... ((SI))
Just found SI! I also belong belong to another smaller site, where I have received some good advice and opinions. Just trying to cast the net wider; still thinking (hoping?) that I am incorrectly perceiving what my husband's actions say about our relationship. Here is a condensed version of our story: 30-year relationship, 25 years married, three wonderful children (two in college, one in high school). Problems, uneasiness, anxiety all started about 2.5 years ago (I distinctly remembered having my first hot flash November of 2011). So perimenopause was exacerbated by our daughter's entry into puberty, oldest son going off to college, and a huge upswing in my husbands workload. He is a salesman and travels a bit, seeing clients at their place of business or at his company's plant, which is located in another state. Like a lot of couples, our relationship had devolved into parallel lives. To remedy this, I made attempts to ask about work, stay in contact when he was out of town. This was when the red flags started popping up all over the place:
1. Stayed up all night on a trip out of town with two clients, a male and a female. They closed down the hotel bar and reconvened in the male's room, where the female joined them in her pajamas and robe. (Jan. 2012)
2. My husband takes the female client out to lunch once a month (his guesstimate). (2011-2013)
3. The female client expressed to my husband that a man in a hotel bar asked her if she was a callgirl.
4. Requested that my husband's company pay for her hotel and entrance fee to a national convention in Las Vegas, despite her own company's assessment that it was unnecessary for her to attend.
5. At said convention, the female client was treated to a $400 dinner. The male client from #1 above was supposed to join, but did not. (October 2012)
6. The second night of the convention, the female client and the male client were treated to a $300 dinner. (October 2012)
7. In Late January, was told by my husband that he had to take out clients to celebrate a successful campaign, adding that he anticipated that decision-makers would be in attendance. Turns out that it was the female client and three hand-picked men (one of whom brought his new wife). $1200 was spent that night and my husband did not get home until 1:30 a.m. When asked about the late hour, he explained that he and the female client took the last train and he then had to drive her to her car at her company's parking lot. (February 2013)
8. The following Tuesday was my birthday. No gift. A card and flowers from our local grocery, that's it.
9. At this point, I get her name out of my husband and go into full detective mode. I find a photo she has posted of the business celebration with a caption stating: the end of a long night celebrating birthdays!
Ouch…I could write more, but I am sad rereading. In his defense, my husband is a great father and provider, just not so good on the husband end of things (I could brush up on my wife skills, too)
So what do you all think?
[This message edited by Shero at 2:51 AM, November 4th (Tuesday)]
If it is an affair, I suspect its a physical one.
Id say its either nothing, or its physical.
Have you checked his emails and cell phone records?
I agree there is huge potential that the above went physical- nights at a conference with available hotel rooms. If there was an interest, there was clearly an opportunity.
But there is also a chance it wasn't an EA either- it all depends on what he was sharing with her, and if he was hiding any if it from you. It sounds pretty likely there was something going on. But, I was in client service and went to nice meals, fancy fundraisers, nights at the bar. It's all 'entertaining' and 'relationship building' which can be perectly professional. Generally you and the counterpart have to be pretty high up to rate a $400 meal between the two of you though.
SA8, thanks for post. Why does it look either like nothing or physical, because no emotional connection?? It's very difficult to access his info because it's all business-related. Passwords changed monthly by his company's IT dept. i did see a text earlier in the year from ow with the subject line: Lunch on Monday?? Body of text: when are you free- I want to see you...
It just doesn't sit right with me and it certainly doesn't seem professional.
The biggest piece of advice I can give you - and which you'll see a lot here on SI - is to NEVER, EVER ignore your gut when it's screaming to you.
And yours is screaming to you.
There's a reason for it.
TIG, I agree there was huge potential and he hid every bit until I started asking questions. Unbeknownst to me, the professional relationship existed for at least a year before I started feeling uncomfortable and started asking questions. And yes, $400 is outrageous, but that's how ow rolls, I've come to discover.
NA2013, yup, intuition is underrated for sure, but I also believe perimenopause is a contributing factor, that's why I am so torn and confused.
TIG, also should state that the company ow works for is huge and constitutes about 80% of my husband's sales, a huge amount of money. I can understand most of what he does to provide and he is really good at what he does. This particular situation just screams "No boundaries"- the ow has none, and my husband put up no resistance.
Another vote for following your gut. I was sort of willing to give your H the benefit of the doubt until I read that text:
when are you free- I want to see you...
It doesn't seem professional to you because it isn't. I work in a field in which my clients are 90%+ male and I take them to lunches, dinner, drinks during overnight travel. I would NEVER send a text like that to any of them nor would I feel comfortable receiving one like that either. It's completely inappropriate and smacks of over-familiarity.
Something seems fishy here, compounded by the fact that he hid this from you. If this was just a professional relationship, why was it hidden? Let me guess: he didn't think to bring it up because it's just a client...
So, either he's telling the truth or he's not, but you're not going to feel any peace until you find out yourself. If you can't get the password to his phone without alerting him and causing him to cover his tracks, I think that I'd hide a VAR in his car and hire a PI to follow him when he's taking this female client out. Does he have a personal laptop or computer that you could install a keylogger on?
No boundaries"- the ow has none, and my husband put up no resistance
You don't know this for sure.........it could be your husband has no boundaries.
Trust your gut. Sure sounds like an affair and it does not sound just emotional.
[This message edited by worried_lady at 3:37 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)]
Why does it look either like nothing or physical, because no emotional connection??
If there was an emotional, romantic connection between them it likely turned physical b/c 1) the length of the relationship; and 2) the opportunity via overnight conventions/hotels
I agree the "I want to see you" does not sound professional.
It could a Hook-Up situation, where they just hook up a few times a year when the opportunity presents, but they aren't "in love" so to speak. In that case, the best trial is probably emails. I realize he uses work PC and cell, but does he have a personal email account and have you checked that?
How about a Voice Activated Recorder in his car?
"It doesn't seem professional to you because it isn't. I work in a field in which my clients are 90%+ male and I take them to lunches, dinner, drinks during overnight travel. I would NEVER send a text like that to any of them nor would I feel comfortable receiving one like that either. It's completely inappropriate and smacks of over-familiarity."
Right?! Way out of bounds. I do know that H has been avoiding her since I asked that he not attend lunch with her alone. It's been easier since she was pulled off of the bigger job her company has placed with my H's company.
Yet, yet. He still refuses to be fully transparent. This past February we had a huge blowout and he said he would give me his statements going forward (why would I care about those, since he was on notice now?!). Next day he changed his mind anyway. H: "where will it end if I give you my statement? Next will be my phone bill and texts, and me hiding in the bathroom while you go through them." What? Our house is huge, no need to hide in the bathroom, lol. He also stated that it's based on "principle" that he won't give me the statements. "Which principle is that exactly?", I asked. No answer, other than "I am not having an affair" and "yes, I have stayed up too late, drank too much, and participated in foolishness, but I would never jeopardize my career or marriage for a passing interest". Basically he feels that he has worked too long and too hard to get to this high-point in his career and if this is what it takes to get there, then by golly, so be it.
And yes, I agree that I should put a VAR in his car, it just feels so greasy to go there, when he could just provide the information himself and let me decide if it's an insurmountable crisis in our marriage or not.
Also, his laptop and phone are company-issued and His office landline bill goes to his office address. Also noticed that he pulls his amex statement (which he uses for business) from our mail asap, whereas in the past, he couldn't be bothered to check our mail.
TT (i am learning the lingo, slowly, but surely)-he mentioned last week that he doesn't even feel comfortable when asked to discuss projects over drinks anymore. My reaction, "What?Since when did you ever discuss work over drinks?!" Mind you, I know this happens when he is out of town for work (his plant is in another state), but had no idea he was drinking during the day while at work, here in our city.
Btw, it has been 15 years since I have worked (lawyer). Is that really the reality of business now?
IMHO you should not ignore this. Something is going on. If it hasnt already happened one of them is hoping and planning. Dont ever think it cant happen to you, just then your world could come crashing in. Grab your H andshake him back into reality. Have the conversation ASAP, you do not want to join this club if it can be avoided
That amex bill is a giant red flag waving just begging for attention.
If everything is on the up and up your husband will be happy to sit down and show you **everything** the second he walks in the door - no questions asked.
: Lunch on Monday?? Body of text: when are you free- I want to see you
Ok I was kind of iffy until I saw this ^^^^^
This does not sound business related to me. I want to see you? Instead of, we need to meet to discuss xyz.
I'm afraid this points towards EA headed to PA, if not already. Unfortunately he has the time and she's there at the time. I'm sorry, I hope I'm wrong.
Crap, just saw the amex bill being pulled from the mail asap...no not good at all.
Hi, Shero, welcome to SI.
Your gut is screaming.
IMO your husband is way beyond an emotional affair with this client.....too many red flags.
If I were you, I'd put a VAR in his vehicle and hire a PI. Cheaters rarely tell the truth, even when confronted with solid evidence.
Thank you, SI posters, you wonderful people. F**k, just hope I am wrong, really do Will order VAR and update you all.
Other SI posters, please feel free to post. This thread should not die. I think there are so many people like me out there; confused, unsure, or unwilling to see, even. Maybe a more experienced BS can start a new thread: Red Flags 101?
The VAR is a great idea but I think this needs to be taken a little farther.
You NEED to get cell phone spyware and install it while he is sleeping. It will tell you every text that goes out and comes in. It will tell you what numbers he is calling and for how long. Some of the better programs record the phone calls and some record the environment around the phone.
The fact he even suggests it would be a problem if you requested the phone log, taking the amex bill, and that one text you saw are pretty well proof he is cheating. I bet he keeps his phone near him and upside downa nd on silent most of the time too??
You can get a VAR at best buy walmart ect if you don't want to wait for one in the mail...
Thanks, MR, for the advice. Can't do that, though. His phone is company-issued and I am sure his IT department would detect it. Can't jeopardise his job, just can't.