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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: yesterday
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 6:11 AM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

our vacation was great but now reality sets in, we're back in town and we both go back to work today... I suppose that's why I couldn't sleep...

yesterday we had to drive through OW2's hometown (she still lives there, suburb of our town) on our way to Big Town to help our son move. I said, "you know, it still hurts. I'll never forget. I'm taking one for the team here." He said he was sorry. Why do I say this? It's like I don't want him to think I've forgotten. Or that I'm good with all this. I want him to know that there are bigger and better things we are doing but that I'm sacrificing so we can do those things.
I'm not stupid. He is too, I'm sure.

Is that what all this is? A big sacrifice? Aren't all long term marriages? There is obviously a lot of good stuff here as well.

On our way out of town hubby said at least we don't have the problems of friends we have with a son with his 3rd DUI, jail time who's now in a residential facility. I said I'd take that problem over mine. He said "no, I mean with our kids.." "oh," I said. Awkward.

We met friends for drinks and they had been there all afternoon and were sitting by a rowdy group of people. I thought I looked great yesterday. And as we got up to leave some old drunk dude said to me, "how'd you get that big ugly scar on your leg?" So, he points out the one thing wrong he can. Our big mouth friend says to him, "she got in a fight with a grizzly bear." and I say, "no, shark bite you asshole" to the guy. Hubby is ready to give the guy a beat down and make him apologize to me.
I said it wasn't worth it but he told me twice he woulda done it but didn't want to cause a scene.
We handled it ok and I got over it and people are just stupid. (was actually a lawnmower accident when I was 7 but I forget I have it)

Our ideas of taking care of each other's needs are.... different. As I said in another thread, if hard physical labor could save this marriage it would be done already. By him. He kills himself doing the dishes, lawn, etc. I have done more of my fair share of IC/reading/keeping my mouth shut most of the time. If only we could meet in the middle.

Thanks for listening. It helps immensely writing all this down.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

The conditions we face do not define us. They remind us of who we are and who we want to be.


Posts: 5230 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I always make a point of reading your posts rachel, our stories continue to seem so similar. I think our reactions to the infidelity are similar and then it seems like our WS react in a similar way too.


if hard physical labor could save this marriage it would be done already. By him. He kills himself doing the dishes, lawn, etc. I have done more of my fair share of IC/reading/keeping my mouth shut most of the time. If only we could meet in the middle.

^^ I feel this so strongly. My husband is being the poster boy for good husband as far as the practicalities go... feeding the pets, doing the laundry, helping with dishes, helping with cooking, making tea, even running my bath water!... he's got all that covered. Trouble is I would be far happier if he would stop all that stuff and TALK to me, or post on SI, or acknowledge my pain, my sacrifice... but that side of things? Absolutely nothing unless I raise it first. It kills me. Worse still, he knows that it kills me and still he does nothing. He is willing to talk if I start the conversation, but I need him to do some of the "heavy-lifting" in that respect and he will do nothing unless I ask or tell him to.

On some level I find it disrespectful. It's like he's watching me bleed out emotionally and he's ignoring it and feeding the flipping dogs instead.

I spoke divorce last night. This morning he is acting as though that conversation never even happened.

I don't know. I really just don't know. Is R wise, or even possible, in a situation where I feel like I am going through emotional torture because of what HE did and my WH wants to ignore that and live a happily married life? Because of what he has put me through I have these huge great emotional needs and he is doing nothing to meet them, but instead is acting as if I have huge needs in the domestic housekeeping department... it's bizarre.

Sorry, I kind of got on a roll here...

{{rachelc}}


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 1018 | Registered: Oct 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

if hard physical labor could save this marriage it would be done already. By him. He kills himself doing the dishes, lawn, etc. I have done more of my fair share of IC/reading/keeping my mouth shut most of the time. If only we could meet in the middle.

In ways HL can be like this. He doesn't often bring up emotional topics to discuss with me, he will talk about his day or ask about mine. He is always there to listen if I bring something up and will always engage if I bring it up. What I have learned is that this is HL's way of showing me how much he loves me. Doing things for me, making my life easier. It is who he is. It has taken a long time for me to recognize that this is his way of showing me love. So while I may want him to bring up certain things to talk about more, I have to look at all of the other ways that my H has changed in order to save this M. And he has.

Maybe your H hasn't done the things that you wanted to see such as reading books or SI, but do you feel that he has changed? Do you feel safe with him? I know in my heart I am safe with HL. You may feel the need to keep pointing it out to your H because you don't feel safe yet. And you want to remind him to never do that again to you. What do you think?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5044 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
ILINIA
♀ Member
Member # 39836
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I never really have great advice, but I wanted to let you know that I related to your post. WH has been going above and beyond with duties and chores ever since dday. He is the Energizer Bunny. I felt the same you do and we had a long discussion that even included letters going back and forth about this topic the previous weekend. We had an “ah hah” moment, so I just wanted to share and see if it helps.

In our discussion/letters, I had told him that I felt like we were in this medieval stadium and I was a princess sitting alone in the stands. He is the knight in the arena who is showing me all his talents like jousting opponents, shooting arrows, throwing axes at targets, sword fighting, and other feats of strength and determination. He is sweating and working so hard. He keeps looking up after each accomplishment to see if I am impressed. He is eagerly waiting for me to give him the signal that I have picked him to marry and we are going to live happily ever after.

I told him that the princess sadly sighs and politely nods after each performance, but she really just wants to call out and say, “It’s okay. You can stop, please just stop. This isn’t working for me.” At this point in our conversation, I am crying, he is freaking out because what does “stopping” really mean? The next morning he told me that maybe the knight does need to stop trying to prove his worth in the arena. Instead the knight needs to come up and just sit with the princess so she isn’t alone.

That was it. He hit the target.

[This message edited by ILINIA at 12:52 PM, July 21st (Monday)]


Entering R slowly and cautiously...

Posts: 491 | Registered: Jul 2013
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ilinia, I very much disagree with your first line because you give great advice. This is an excellent post!!! Very insightful. Nailed it.

I think a mistake many WS make is looking for the cookie, the reward, the pat on the head and they can get very sad or resentful if it doesn't come. Or hold back a bit if they don't get it. Or they subtly point out look at me, look what I'm doing, shouldn't it mean something? Still looking for validation in some way. And I understand there needs to be some, everyone wants some, but it shouldn't be the driving force anymore. Any more so than being a good guy to simply avoid conflict.

When there if that look at the princess to see if she's noticing, it's contrived and a BS can feel it.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You may feel the need to keep pointing it out to your H because you don't feel safe yet. And you want to remind him to never do that again to you. What do you think?
Totally agree with TG.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5968 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@itsaclimb:
I have these huge great emotional needs and he is doing nothing to meet them, but instead is acting as if I have huge needs in the domestic housekeeping department

this is so funny! yes!

@tiredgirl:

but do you feel that he has changed? Do you feel safe with him?

yes, first, this IS how he loves me. I think I accept this but I am disappointed. i see many BS/WS here just turn themselves inside out trying to be a better person and for most of them, that means looking inside introspectively, not just being a good spouse. My husband is a good spouse. But he cannot look at what happened really deeply because of fear.

He hasn't changed from pre-A. He is just a bit better of a husband. Oh, and I am no longer on a pedestal and he would not be as crushed if we split up as he would have been before, he has said this.

regarding bringing it up: I don't want him to forget how hard this is for me. Not talking about it at all makes it feel like its all ok now. I think about it a lot. Still. And want him to know that. I want him to know how hard it is to recover from two effing betrayals, like near impossible. And I've probably brought it up twice this summer, so not a lot. We had the brief conversation driving through her town and it was like a 30 second thing. The safety - I know he wants to be a good person... I will never feel 100% safe though.

@ILINIA: that's a great story!

Dixie: Ha! I guess I feel like its like this:

Princess, this is who I am. I can't do it differently. It's what I know, who I am. And I'm exhausted. I will take care of you financially, physically, domestically and I will listen to you emotionally although I will dread that part. If I have to look at what either of us did I get that slay the dragon feeling and I don't like that feeling. Let's just live a happy life together. See this castle I made for you? Everything happy happy happy.

[This message edited by rachelc at 3:18 PM, July 21st (Monday)]


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

The conditions we face do not define us. They remind us of who we are and who we want to be.


Posts: 5230 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And you want to remind him to never do that again to you

is this bad? you guys are right, I don't feel safe. I'm not sure why. I don't THINK it has to do with the OW, although that doesn't help. I think it has to do with his lack of change.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

The conditions we face do not define us. They remind us of who we are and who we want to be.


Posts: 5230 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

^^^^ I agree. This is why you say the things you do to him. So knowing what is happening within yourself and what you are feeling, are you safe and happy in your M ?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5044 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you do know why you don't feel safe and you said it
I think it has to do with his lack of change.

Rachel - at some point, for your own sake, you will have decide if you are going to stay with a man who can't or won't do what you need him to do in order for you to feel safe with him. If you make the choice to stay married to him, fully aware that the changes you need to see will not happen, then you cannot punish him for that. You chose him, you keep choosing him, and JMHO, you have to own that. You are in this M, eyes wide open. You make the choice, every single day, to stay in this M. You also have the free will to leave this M. Ultimately, you decide. It's your life.

[This message edited by MissesJai at 5:00 PM, July 21st (Monday)]


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5968 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

then you cannot punish him for that. You chose him, you keep choosing him,

This is very true. I see that you know what you have at this point. You have to make a choice if it is enough. If it is, then move forward knowing that this is what you are choosing. If it isn't then get out. Being P/A with him just makes him resent you.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5044 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is so wrong with telling him I still hurt? That this is a tall order for me... especially dealing with certain triggers.
Why would I be in a marriage where I shouldn't share my struggles, although I understand not to do it P/A...

So knowing what is happening within yourself and what you are feeling, are you safe and happy in your M ?

no. But many people here said it took a long long time for them to get there...


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

The conditions we face do not define us. They remind us of who we are and who we want to be.


Posts: 5230 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You asked why you do this. I think there are a few reasons. But saying that you are taking one for the team is a bit P/A. Seeing as you are a madhatter.

At some point you have to decide if what he is offering you is what you are going to accept. He has made it clear that this is as good as it gets. Do you feel that you are making progress in moving forward in the marriage?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5044 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know it's PA but I don't think it matters that were mad hatters. I know he is too. I think we are BOTH taking one for the team.
I'll not negate my triggers because he has them too. I think they're separate yet equally as devastating. I'll never not mention the difficult ones. He can too. We're here to support each other ..,

I do think we're moving forward..,, we had a good walk tonight but he mentioned another couple very much like us in this town and the guy went on a public golf outing with his former mistress. Maybe he and his wife have some arrangement. I triggered so hard I had to ask for space. I thought to myself, I will never forgive him, I will never not stop reminding him , I will always have a "I'm settling" feeling, so I will tell him this truth if I know it's for sure for sure if this is how I will always feel. But I don't know that yet, and he deserves to know...


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

The conditions we face do not define us. They remind us of who we are and who we want to be.


Posts: 5230 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
ILINIA
♀ Member
Member # 39836
Default  Posted: 10:20 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was thinking more about your post today and had a few more thoughts. I am not as familiar of the details of your R, so if I am just rehashing things you or he have tried or discussed, please ignore!

When I read the things you say to WH, I identify because I say similar things because it is how I cry out for help from WH. If he doesn’t respond, I will get snarkier and snarkier until I pretty push him away. In the end, I won’t get the response I need and WH dreads or avoids talking to me. The cycle sucks. We just want to be heard, we want them to feel with us and comfort us, instead they mow the lawn.

It seems your WH is a conflict avoider as well, so maybe you feel the same way I do. I judge that all the work WH does (cleaning, mowing, etc) as his way to avoid me and our relationship. Prior to the A, he was a workaholic. He choose to keep busy verses engaging with me and our family, therefore, I am very sensitive that he may have just swapped out his work duties with chores, therefore, I continue to have the unsafe feeling. It could be a slippery slope of him becoming completely detached again.

I do get that this is the way he is showing me that he loves me, but it didn’t work before and it isn’t working now. When he was working all those hours and traveling, he said he did it for me and the family because he loved us. He didn’t want us to worry about finances or our future, he wanted to make sure our kids could choose any college. He had good intentions, but in time his focus became skewed. He started resented me for being on this hamster wheel and that I did not appreciate that he was breaking his back for me!?! All I wanted was for him to be home with us, I missed him. How am I supposed to know that he isn’t repeating the cycle all over again? Yep, feeling unsafe.

I am aware that his acts of love are nice and helpful, but they are not what is going to make me feel safe, in fact they can be triggery for me. Hence the whole princess/knight revelation. He also needs to dig deep to understand why he turns away when you need him to turn in. Does he think if he keeps the outside world perfect, the inner one will follow OR once he does enough chores you will be happier OR maybe it is all he can think of doing for you? It seems like his coping methods aren't working for you. Is he willing to help you heal?

I don’t know if you have tried it, but Retrouvaille was a huge step forward for our communication. He learned how to share his feelings to me verses being “dutiful husband”. We are still new at this therefore, we lapse and have ugly moments (well, I have really ugly moments ), but we have been able to work through how we feel so the other can understand. That never happened before and I would complain he was a robot because he would never actually hear me and continue with his behavior. Maybe it something to try if you haven't already.

Also, my WH highly recommends the Non-Violent Communication book. He said it was the best book he has read post A.

I think you are right about meeting in the middle which sounds easy, but when you don't have a map you have no idea where to even start!

Sorry about being so long-winded, I am still figuring out how to be concise and to the point!

[This message edited by ILINIA at 10:21 PM, July 21st (Monday)]


Entering R slowly and cautiously...

Posts: 491 | Registered: Jul 2013
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 6:21 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ilinia - thank you for responding!
We just want to be heard, we want them to feel with us and comfort us, instead they mow the lawn.

I'm not a person who gets snarkier (at this point at least), I just say a few words and leave it at that.

I judge that all the work WH does (cleaning, mowing, etc) as his way to avoid me and our relationship

I'm not sure this is what it is for us... I think he just likes to get things done, perform a love language at the same time, and stay busy. He will do many things to distract himself from thinking about us.

Retrouvaille - I would really have to convince him. It's in another state but I think would be beneficial to us.

Non Violent communication - I have the book. I should get it out again for myself. He is not a reader and the last book I suggested he pooh poohed. Even our friends where the hubby had an affair 7 years ago - they read a devotional every morning. We started that but he didn't like it. I would have to push it again.

Thank you again for responding. I had two awful nightmares last night and was up and read your post. I needed to hear just a response. I did turn to him and said I was so so tired of this. I can't control my dreams. It's like my body is shouting at me sometimes...

I said I was tired of wondering if we were doing the right thing and that if he was a safe person. He said he wonders the same thing sometimes but tries to think of the short amount of time we have left and the good times we've had. I said I feel that maybe we really don't both have our feet in this marriage 100% and we can feel that in each other. Not that we want out, but that we're afraid of getting hurt. He said maybe.... and then wanted to make love?!

I have IC tomorrow, so that is good!

[This message edited by rachelc at 6:22 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

The conditions we face do not define us. They remind us of who we are and who we want to be.


Posts: 5230 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Retrouvaille - I would really have to convince him. It's in another state but I think would be beneficial to us.
rachel, I cannot recommend this program enough - it's a game changer, in a good way. Keep trying to convince him.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5968 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks missesjai! I think there is one in September that would work. I have nothing to lose at this point.
Do you have to go in willing to change? I'm pretty damn stubborn..,


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

The conditions we face do not define us. They remind us of who we are and who we want to be.


Posts: 5230 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you have to go in willing to change? I'm pretty damn stubborn..
no, really??? In all seriousness, in order to get the most out of the program, you have to be humble and accept your contribution to the situation, your faults, and your shortcomings; essentially, it's owning your shit but on a much grander scale. The BS's who presented their situations were quick to own their own shit. They didn't own their spouses decisions to cheat, however, they fully owned their contributions to the failed state of their marriages. Try and make it to the next one - try like hell. It doesn't fix everything overnight, but it's one hell of a catalyst to healing. You have to WANT to heal.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5968 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You have to WANT to heal.

I think this is key right here. Is that what you want rachel?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5044 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Topic Posts: 63
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