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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: yesterday
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey rachel,

I can't get pm's. Have you read wert's thread about letting go? It is really good.

I think if you haven't reached a place where you know that is the next step then you aren't ready for it. However, I do feel that at some point you are going to have to decide if you are going to hang onto this forever. You know what you have with your H at this point. He hasn't hid the fact that this is what you are going to get from him. So at some point you have to decide if it is enough for you? Can you live with this and be happy? Maybe the answer is looking to yourself more for the healing and less at him. I know you have tried that but maybe he just can't give you what you need. Can you do that and not resent him? I know that you want more from him, I get that. But he has kind of made it clear that it isn't happening. So what do you want at this point? Big hugs, I know you have been at this crossroads for a long time. It has to be hard.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4854 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Werts post made me cringe. It made me think that if I do that hubby gets the marriage be wants but I do not.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4906 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Then it sounds like you two are on different pages about what kind of M you want. What kind of M do YOU want?

ETA: Actually let me ask, if you could have the perfect M, what would that look like to you?

[This message edited by tired girl at 12:39 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4854 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One where I am cherished.

I have to ask myself this- why would I pull up stakes for him, if that is what he needed to do, but I'm reluctant to do it for myself?


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4906 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is a good question. Is it possible because you know that you would be on your own and you are very afraid of that?

You don't feel cherished in your M?

[This message edited by tired girl at 12:44 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4854 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Neverwudaguessed
♀ Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rachelc; do you equate his lack of willingness to move away with a lack of cherishing you? That staying where you are is so important that he would choose it even if it meant losing you?

I know I don't know all of your story, but at some point, I remember you saying that he told you if you wanted to move that you should have had your affair 15 years ago, before his career was so developed. To me, that response belies some unresolved feelings on his part about your betrayal, and I may really be reading into it, but that you might not have anything to want to move away from if you hadn't had your affair in the first place? He may not have been implying ANY of that at all, but I suppose what I am trying so clumsily to get at is that if he has any resentment still about the past, maybe he cannot fully see just how much this means to you because your pain is being obscured by his pain? If I am off base, sorry. I just know that his refusal to entertain the idea of moving has been a source of hurt throughout the process. I wonder if you would actually eve go through with it if you came to am agreement on it; just his willingness to look at it might go a long way?


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 544 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TG - yes and yes

Rachelc; do you equate his lack of willingness to move away with a lack of cherishing you?

Yes


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4906 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know the saying,you have to be ok with losing the M to save it. Have you ever gotten to that point?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4854 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Neverwudaguessed
♀ Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, that is such a heartbreaking way to feel. How could you feel valued in your marriage in other ways of this underlying issue is not resolved adequately? I can understand why your stuck and that is so painful. I bet he sees it so differently, and that is the sad part because that does not take away how it makes YOU feel. Have you guys talked to MC about the deeper meaning of the moving/not moving issue?

(((Rachelc)))


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 544 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good question, TG. rachel, are you willing to lose your M if that means saving it?


FWW - 41
Fawk you.....pay me!

Posts: 5897 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also rachel, can you see a M where you both "win"? I see a lot with you where it is either/or. Not both of you happy. I feel that if you cannot envision that then their is probably a big problem.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4854 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It made me think that if I do that hubby gets the marriage be wants but I do not.

OK so your hubby gets the M he wants - sounds good. So now what do YOU need to do to get the M you want?

I really do get it. It all blows chunks, but if you keep holding on to hurts, even adding them on to the pile, you won't heal.

I read a fair amount of black and white thinking in your posts. Do you acknowledge (or is it even true) that you are cherished sometimes? Like when he does the dishes or when he was going to give the guy a beat down for you. If you can or do acknowledge those are his methods of showing you he loves you then you are half way there. He does in fact love you and he is trying.

If I were you I would pick one thing you want from him, not all things at once and work on that. Then add to the list. Have him build a repertoire of things for his spouse that demonstrate the cherish. People don't know what others want. They need to be shown and or told. Brass tacks, practical skills, real acknowledgement. Everything else is just unicorns and fairy dust. Try letting go of what he doesn't do and pay attention to the things he does. Ask him why he does the dishes and works so hard? Maybe its for you?

take care...



Posts: 1427 | Registered: Jan 2012
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

T/J -
I see a lot with you where it is either/or.
and black and white - great minds think a like!

take care....



Posts: 1427 | Registered: Jan 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Everything else is just unicorns and fairy dust. Try letting go of what he doesn't do and pay attention to the things he does. Ask him why he does the dishes and works so hard? Maybe its for you?

I think this is really important to acknowledge where men are concerned.


great minds think a like!

word!


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4854 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TG & wert make some very good points.
Try letting go of what he doesn't do and pay attention to the things he does.
This is HUGE and can make all the difference IF you are willing to give it your all. However, if you are holding on to his past behaviors with a death grip, and then beating him over the head with it every chance you can (or stuffing your emotions all while feeding the resentment monster) nothing we suggest is going to work.


FWW - 41
Fawk you.....pay me!

Posts: 5897 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know the saying,you have to be ok with losing the M to save it. Have you ever gotten to that point?

you know my IC today asked me what I needed from him: I said, in a perfect world - relocation and a polygraph. She said ask him tonight then. I cried. Because that would be what you just said TG... and I'm afraid of it. But why? If it was a sure save of course I'd do it.

Also rachel, can you see a M where you both "win"?

oh yes! in a new place, with friends, family, (lower taxes), new jobs that challenge us. He meets a new groups of guys he loves and golfs/fishes with. we see each other happy and we are both happy. I see us playing with grandkids and we talk intimately, love spending time together and triggers on both sides are minimal.

He loads the dishwasher for ME! Yes, I know this. I thank him every time. I thank him for everything he does. I've asked him and he said you cook so I clean... And i said I love taking care of you and cooking for you. we really take care of each other this way. I realize he is cherishing me by performing acts of service. he cherishes me by providing for my future. I tell him how grateful I am for this. And also for being a great dad to our kids.

However, if you are holding on to his past behaviors with a death grip, and then beating him over the head with it every chance you can

really? because I don't do this every chance I get and i've forgiven a boatload of past behaviors and rarely, if ever, do I bring them up to him. What I am concerned about is current behavior. When you are in emotional turmoil and your spouse can take action to help you but doesn't want to, yes, it hurts, it makes you question your worth and space in the marriage.

My IC said I need more reassurance from him and to accept where I am right now. That if he meets some of my emotional needs that I will start to heal faster. I need to ask him what his priority is and what exactly that looks like to him. I said shouldn't people do anything to make amends? She said yep.

Either/or black/white - I think when someone has more than one Dday they get to this point. But I have always been kinda like this.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4906 | Registered: Dec 2010
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When you are in emotional turmoil and your spouse can take action to help you but doesn't want to, yes, it hurts, it makes you question your worth and space in the marriage.
you know this about him, though. It's not like this behavior came out of nowhere.
at some point you are going to have to decide if you are going to hang onto this forever. You know what you have with your H at this point. He hasn't hid the fact that this is what you are going to get from him. So at some point you have to decide if it is enough for you? Can you live with this and be happy? Maybe the answer is looking to yourself more for the healing and less at him. I know you have tried that but maybe he just can't give you what you need. Can you do that and not resent him? I know that you want more from him, I get that. But he has kind of made it clear that it isn't happening. So what do you want at this point?
THIS - a gazillion times THIS.


FWW - 41
Fawk you.....pay me!

Posts: 5897 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why are you afraid to lose your M?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4854 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

would you accept it MissesJai? Would anyone here?

it is enough for you?
NOOOO!

Can you live with this and be happy?

My IC thinks after i grieve and heal that I'll be able to sit across the table from these women! ha! Ok, point me in that direction. I can't let go... I don't know how the rest of you can. what do you say to yourself when you are in pain? that it was in the past, it's not happening now, he's a different person, What the hell do you tell yourself?

Why can't he do something uncomfortable too? Jesus, I sat next to OW#1s kids at the pool today. Vaguely uncomfortable but more like, meh. why cant' he get used to uncomfortable shit like reading a book, getting on here, booking a trip to Retrouvaille... YOUR spouses do this! I get it. Someone is gonna say - but he won't do this and you have to decide if you'll accept who he is...

you know when I was best treated by this man? after I confessed. He was home at 5 every night, he bought me flowers once a week, he was afraid he was going to lose me. I don't really think he cares now!

Why are you afraid to lose your M?

because it's my family. it's been a huge investment. It would be a great great loss. And I have to determine what the expense would be. Arent' most people afraid to lose their marriage?
Because I would be alone. For a while.
That he would date other people. He would have another woman right away. My kids would have Christmas and vacations with another woman and him. I would miss him and all the good stuff we do together!


[This message edited by rachelc at 6:19 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4906 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, I do see that my H is a different man. It was never about the women, it was about him. So the women don't bother me.

I think he was like that after your A because he was doing the pick me dance that many BS's do. Then anger hit, and your right, he realized what you had done. He sits in the same place that you do.

If what he is doing is not enough for you and you don't feel cherished, then why are you fighting so hard to stay in the M?

I have heard you say that if he agreed to move you don't know that you would want to. So I am not sure how much of a sticking point it really is for you. I believe that you are extremely reluctant to put both feet in at this point, because you don't feel that he has felt your pain enough.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4854 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
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