I just need more than one chat to build a pattern.
You got your "more than one chat." Now what?
Here is a question for anyone following this thread... Have you seen these nonchalant types of exchanges between your WS and OP who are "just hooking up" with no intimacy?
No. This isn't affair talk. It's pre-affair talk. Your wife is letting this guy in. She's accepting his inappropriate comments and keeping them from you. This is how it starts.
If she was in an affair, she would be in much more contact with this guy and it would be much more sexual. Maybe it's just me, but I get the feeling that this guy soooo wants to send your wife a dic pic, but she hasn't greenlighted him for that yet.
He's working it, give him time, he'll get there. She's not saying "yes" to this guy, but she most definitely is not saying "NO" or even "no" either.
He said "show me more" and her response was "Can't. Busy working out" - which was a lie because we were home and she was downstairs relaxing on the sofa.
Notice she didn't say, "I'M A MARRIED WOMAN, BUZZ OFF!"
Nor did she say, "Can't, watching TV with my husband."
She said, "Can't. Busy working out" which means "can't you just imagine me stretching and bending my hot little body."
She's having fun entertaining this guy's attentions. She is enjoying it. If she's not already there, pretty soon she will start looking forward to his messages, and soon after that, she will start initiating the messages.
That's where you are, man.
If I were you, I'd probably keep laying low and not give any hint I was suspicious of anything, definitely don't ask her a "do you respect me?" question again, monitor a little while longer, a couple more days to a week longer, maybe try a voice-activated recorder also, wait for one or two more exchanges, then confront and stop this thing before it does go too far.
I have no idea at what point your wife is in this little affair she is having and i am not going to attempt to analyze her brain. Someone else said it clearly
A MARRIED WOMAN HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS CARRYING ON THESE KINDS OF CONVERSATIONS WITH ANOTHER MAN
If I were you, I would personally not give a shit if it makes her feel good or why she is doing it, but if you do not play this right you are going to be in some real doo doo here, if you are not already.
First of all, now we know this guy works out at the same gym, he is in real estate with a LOT of loose time during the day while you are at work, and your wife is absolutely at the least leading him on, at the worst already banging him.
I think you said you do not have text on your phones, but you better get a VAR in her car and a GPS on her car like yesterday si you can tell if she is visiting his office. If she is having conversations like this sitting in the house with you upstairs, imagine what the hell she is doing when you are not around.
In my opinion, just what you have right there is enough for me to come down on her like a ton of bricks and tell her it stops or your next stop is the attorney. You are not in law enforcement and are not going in to a courtroom where you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to anyone but you that this is inappropriate and will not be tolerated.
Aside from the electronics above, i would
(1) get from Mapquest distance back and forth and time to gym. When she says she is going to gym Id look at speedometer when she gets home. i wojuld record it every day if you can get in her car.
(2) if she tells you she is going somewhere with girlfriend I would either follow her or just go looking.
i know this sounds like a lot, but i think the concensous here is that either there is the beginning of an EA going on, or a full blown PA.
Lastly, I will again give you my suggestion on tricking her. As soon as you announce you are leaving, I guarantee she will contact him within 24 hours. Then when you cancel at last minute, she will in panic do it again. If you wanted to carry it a step further you could leave the house, park around the corner, and confront her when she emerges all dressed up for her night out.
You can win this game, but NOT if you disappear for the week end and give her all the space she needs to betray you.
My schedule has me leave town first thing in the morning and, because I take transit 2 hours to work , I physically can't get back to town. HER schedule gives her at least 1 day off a week. In theory she could be having hook ups with him.
The current plan is to keep watching all her comms If I see anything telling me a hook up is going to happen I will "go to work" but find someplace nearby to camp out and wait. The only problem would be if she leaves her phone at home. On the day she has off I often take her car and leave mine. I can more easily put a tracker in my old jeep. Just need to find a good one ASAP.
What is additional info going to do for you? Unless it's to help solidify in your own mind the reality of what is going on - and that is an exceptionally useful tool, I know, the self doubt in the face of a WS denial is overwhelming - then amassing further evidence is just going to confirm by inches what you already know.
If you have an older windows laptop, use it to sign into FB messenger with a client like Pidgin.
Set it out of the way, minimize the application, turn power saver off on the CPU (Never let it sleep, you can leave it going for the screen. Also turn down the sound for the laptop
With it minimized, it should collect both sent and received messages.
I had my IT intern test this out. I am off Facebook because it was where I met up with my APs. I had him test it with his FB account and let me know how it worked. Here is a copy of his report:
>>>>Email from Intern<<<<
I setup Pidgin on my Windows VM with a Facebook account and had a couple of friends spam me with messages. With the app minimized, Messages for Mac and the Facebook mobile/web clients still received my messages. However, when I read them in Pidgin, they were marked as read for my friends and didn’t show up on my iPhone in Messenger.
All clients can send/receive messages when Pidgin is open. Pidgin received all messages.
>>>>End Email from Intern<<<
Now I didn't seem him do this so I am not sure if it will capture the entire back and forth, but its worth a try.
Good luck. I did surveillance on my XWH for 3 weeks until I had enough evidence that he could not talk his way out of it. I was puking and shitting the whole time. It was the worst, but I saw what I needed to see to make that final cut.
Marriages that start this way, stepping over the bodies of loved ones as the giddy couple walks down the aisle, are not likely to last.
My XWW had her first A 1 year after we were married. I never knew about that one. Dday was from her 3 yr LTA with a married coworker. Seh stopped her A with the coworker after she realized he was fucking other women in the office. She avoided IC and was essentially a dry adulterer. I spent 1 year in false R and another year being too scared to file for D. Don't be like me. Your WW IS in a A right now. Whether is full blown physical or not she is definitely having an EA. Even if she isn't she is crossing all sorts of boundaries and not giving 2 fucks about it. I spent a bunch of time wondering and watching as well. When my XWW changed the password on her phone I knew she was up to something again. I even had a spyware on the pc. I never found anything and I looked. I dug up shit on teh previous A's but nothing new and it was driving me insane. Eventually she said she wanted out. So I filed. Lo and behold she comes out after we were S with her "new" boyfriend.
If I could go back in time I would have dropped the fucking hammer as SOON as my gut screamed something was up after DDay. She cheated before and has the gall to not only not own her shit but get involved in an EA with another guy and absolutely shit all over my feelings about it.
IMO, you should go file for D. If you want o find out what's going on with your WW right now, start up the 180 and go file for D without telling her. D is not automatic in most states. There is some form of waiting period. Have her served and when she asks what's going on tell her you know about the new guy. Don't give any other info. Tell her it either stops immediately with her giving 100% transparency and sendin NC with you standing there watching or the D goes through. Her reaction will likely tell you everything you need to know. Most of all it will free you from the never ending monitoring cyle you are in. They are no fun. And honestly your WW hasn't got a clue about being remoreful if she is doing shit like this. Rip the bandaid off my friend and free yourself. If she wants to cheat she is going to cheat. From what you typed it seems she doesn't truly care or think about yoru feelings when she does what she does. She is selfish. If she leaves she was always going to leave and when she walks out she is goign to blame you. Unremorsful spouses don't take ownership of things. They blame others. By taking action now you save yourself a ton of pain.
I truly get it. I wasn't able to do it 3 years ago. It took me 2 years to file and I am happy now but I could have been happier much sooner if I didn't have to deal with all the added bullshit I went through after dday when dealing with an unremoresful WS. The title of yout post is back on high alert. Who wants to be on high alert for the rest of your life and if your WS does not get it and try to own their shit then the BS remains on high alert FOREVER unless they leave. Your WW is the one that should be on high alert avoiding situations and crossing of boundaries like the one she is in now. Unremoresful is unremorseful. The ones that aren't blatantly mean to us are the worst kind because they kill us slowly over time instead of just shooting us immediately by leaving with the AP. It prolongs the suffering. It gives you false hope that they kill slowly over time. Your WW is not going to end this, you are. It's just a matter of how long you want to deal with it and how much punishment you are willing to put yourself through. Some BS's have extremely high pain tolerances but we all wear out eventually. It took me 2 years before I had enough. You need to figure out how long you want to stay in the shitstorm.
You take the path you need to take. We all make our own decisions when we are ready. Just remember to be kind to yourself.
[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 10:26 AM, July 24th (Thursday)]
The crazy thing is, it has been super quiet last couple of days. When we finish switching her over to my phone and cancel her old one I will have better visibility into her texting. A buddy of mine used a trick with his ww where he set her iPhone to backup wirelessly to a computer running iTunes and then used a program to open the backup and read her texts.
your wife needs to grow up. Worse she has serious issues if she needs constant validation from OM.
If she truly loved you and wanted the marriage she wouldn't still be screwing around.
You should have had her served on your wedding anniversary.
And no she does not respect you let alone herself.
This guy is treating your wife like a whore and she is getting off on it.
Funny...she told me after our first d day, when we were hysterically bonding and opening up to each other, that she has a prostitute fantasy. This isn't completely abnormal and some woman have rape fantasies.
Obviously, anything other than role playing with your husband is seriously messed up, but it makes me wonder if she really does get off on being treated this way.
Update....still very quiet. Not sure if she somehow figured out I was snooping, or if this is actually "just" in appropriate texts. (which needs to be snipped in the bud)
Next week she has a couple of days off and the kids wil be at their aunts so there is a strong possibility something could happen.
I feel like the CIA or NSA monitoring the chatter.
I'm not saying it's not possible but I would be surprised. If they have moved onto text I will know about it soon enough because, once she cancels her old phone and switches to my phone, the level of detail on the bill, available online up to a couple of hours from real-time, is exactly what I need.
I am confused at exactly what you are trying to prove? What is your goal here,
(a) to catch her in full blown PA so since it is her second time justify a D in your mind
(b) trying to save your marriage
If the answer is A above, then you can be prepared to be in CIA mode for quite some time because I agree with Toby that she has figured out you are monitoring her.
The other night at 12:30Am a man calls your wife and asks her to come meet him at his office. She not only has the disrespect for you to take the call, but she flirts with him, and there is absolutely no reason to suspect that if you were out of town that she would have not gone to meet him. WHAT IS THERE ABOUT THAT CONVERSATION THAT YOU FIND UNCLEAR OR NOT INAPPROPRIATE???
there is NO WAY a conversation like that would be taking place as a one time only conversation. Who calls any woman out of the clear blue and basically asks for a booty call the first time they talk sexually.
So here you have a totally inappropriate relationship already going on and you want more proof. Of what????? You are rationalizing and in denial with understanding her fantasies about being a prostitute. Does that mean if these conversations continue, you are going to be fine with letting her enjoy herself.????
So let's assume you are right and it is not PA yet, which i find doubtful. You are at work but not at gym that they both go to with him having plenty of time and multiple locations to take your wife where there will be no hotel receipt to find.
What are you going to do next week if you find her going to bang him. let it happen so you have proof????
You have been burned once by this woman. if you are not looking to catch her so you can divorce her, you need to intervene RIGHT NOW!!!
You could do the following to try to save your M
(1) confront her with what you have and tell her to explain to you why she feels this is OK for this guy to be calling her.
(2) go to his wife and employer and blow this thing up either before it has begun or soon after. I don't think his real estate company will be too happy that you have proof he is trying to lure your wife at midnight into the office to fuck her.
(3) tell her ,not, ask, that you have no intention to remain in a marriage with her with more than the two of you in it.
You have two choices here. Do you want to make an attempt to save your marriage or do you want to prove that you may be technologically brilliant.
My guess is she already has a burner phone or some other contact and you are going to wind up really sorry you did not get out of the denial mode and get angry fast.
No matter how you try to explain it, no one else posting here to you has been able to explain how the phone call you intercepted was not a sign of something much more ominous. You are acting like a general in an army that want to absorb the attack of the enemy before reacting rather than pre empting it.
I hope you change your mind before it is too late. I suggest you read some of the post from MCHA on JFO and maybe you will be spurred into action other than listening.
I went through similar things, and I regret not getting angrier sooner. I always just needed that one more piece of definitive proof that seemed to be impossible to get before I confronted her. But I knew. Do you know?
It's true, once you tip your hand, a sneaky WS will just go deeper underground if they keep up the affair. But that will be obvious too, and should act as enough proof in itself.
I am with many other posters here that think what she's done already is more than enough for you take action.
I am with many other posters here that think what she's done already is more than enough for you take action.
me (WW/BS): 48
4 kiddos in mid 20's
“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”
An update... last night we were out for a walk and the conversation got onto the idea of people who are "friends of the marriage" The two faced b@!tch actually had the NERVE to tell me all about the concept and how it's important we have friends who are friends of our marriage.... I wanted to throttle her (obviously out of the question) and ask her if this real estate agent is a friend of the marriage.
She started going through my phone this morning... clearly looking for something to get ME on, which doesn't exist, but she did find a chat between myself and a co-worker (female, older, grandmotherly type) in which I was bitching about my oldest boy not working. She tried to tell ME that this was inappropriate and that I shouldn't be talking to her about our personal stuff. OK, sure.. it was however a ONE TIME outburst and I almost never talk to this woman otherwise.
I looked at her and told her she could f right off and that she needed to SHUT UP with the kids in the back seat because she did NOT want this conversation right now.
So we drove home in silence. I'm trying to get up the balls to take the next step. Having a minor panic attack as I have been having a few all week.