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N P D Thread - Part 14

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southsidecali posted 7/24/2014 14:36 PM

Rest order got dissolved, the gf played the victim card.

Her son is problematic and had open heart surgery 3 weeks ago started crying and what not.. sigh.. they are happy and in love and moving in together soon,booohooo..

of course it seems and i come off as the one holding out hope for the ex and for me to leave her alone and for her to stop meddling in our custody.

This was a family court issue and was dismissed.

I know that it being dismissed was a win, however, it just seems that they are now feeling justified and their love has won and I come off as bitter ex- which is so far from truth.

I am glad she will still be in picture and remove him from our life, though so big picture is I win. She is not pushing him for a relationship with his kids and she is full on being love bombed.

She obviously is buying him clothes and with him moving in with her he is going to try and take kids away.

sigh, even when you win you don't really win.

caregiver9000 posted 7/24/2014 15:21 PM

lola, welcome. I have followed your story and I am not surprised to see you in the tribe. Is it possible that the girls have aged into a stage that is more interesting for him? Not necessarily in a creepy way, but keep a watch on it. I agree with the others that attention is always something they seek.

nekorb, hugs honey. I hope you heal nicely and quickly. Try not to worry about the scar. Your doc sounds a bit insensitive with his phrasing. Think of it as "facial interest." And your insensitive ex can go suck eggs.

QA, your post about attending a wedding actually made me trigger a bit. I missed my brother's wedding shortly after dday. I think it was the right decision at the time, but I still carry some guilt. I applaud your strength and willingness to bridesmaid yourself around! As for conversation, can you tell "remember when" stories about your sister? Ancient childhood tales? Work/career questions are good starters.

nekorb posted 7/24/2014 19:34 PM

Your doc sounds a bit insensitive with his phrasing.

I think around the time I was telling him about the first doc telling me mid-procedure that I was going to need a plastics guy and I said "Seriously? What the fuck?" went through my mind, he knew I was all about keeping it real.

Lola2kids posted 7/25/2014 07:28 AM

lola, welcome. I have followed your story and I am not surprised to see you in the tribe. Is it possible that the girls have aged into a stage that is more interesting for him? Not necessarily in a creepy way, but keep a watch on it. I agree with the others that attention is always something they seek.

Thanks Caregiver.
That crossed my mind too. They are 10. They can pretty much take care of themselves for the most part. He was never a diaper changing, or bath time kind of dad. He's a father truth be told and not a daddy at all.
One DD has some medical issues that cause her to soil herself. He used to make such a big deal about gagging at the smell of her. Asshole.
She takes care of it herself now.

The OW was never interesed in meeting the kids so I'm not sure why now. Dumb ass has been around her son for a while and even when she was still married to her husband so I feel bad that the kid had to watch his mom whore around on his dad.

I would surmise that she is NPD too. Do NPD's normally pair up? I think Kajem's ex and new wife sound like they are both NPD.

She wears the pants in the relationship apparently so I don't know how long that will last. He does not want to be told what to do.
I figure he finally found someone like mom that he has been looking for all these years.
Mom does not like her of course.
Mom is likely NPD too.

Lola2kids posted 7/25/2014 07:29 AM

nekorb - I was told by my doctor to put vitamin E on my cesarean scar as well. It helps with the healing and takes away the itch.

Quakingaspen posted 7/25/2014 07:40 AM

You are awesome. All of you. Just totally awesome.

Thank you for the support I can't get anywhere else.

Sorry for the trigger caregiver. I had to think long and hard about whether I could do this, and changed my mind a few times. I sympathize with your decision not to, and am pretty sure if I were much closer to DDay I couldn't be doing it. Even now it's a bit of a struggle, but I started planning a fun hike to reward myself for next month, so that's my happy place to go to when things get rough.

Thank you for the conversation ideas too. Anxiety tends to make it so much more complicated than it needs to be! I so wish I could network, but we're a couple states away from where I live now. But, I can still practice projecting confidence and capability.

Southside, hang in there. Enjoy the win you've got for now, build your strength.

K - yes. I feel pretty - whatever - about how he treats me anymore, but his treatment of the kids has me going nuclear (privately). That is the hardest thing about dealing with him at this point.

Kajem posted 7/25/2014 08:01 AM

Sending good thoughts for Nekorb.

meleanoro posted 7/25/2014 08:16 AM

Kajem, thank you for your detailed answer. I feel more secure just "being" here.

Nekorb, I wish you much peace, calm, and security today and in the days that follow.

Quaking, I am in awe of how you keep calm as a mom. I cannot begin to surmise how it would be to co-parent with a douchelord (!). Despite all he did to her, my mom manages to be really diplomatic about my dad to me, and I think that must require a very special sort of strength and maturity. (((Hug)))

DrJekyll posted 7/25/2014 08:26 AM

ok for my healing I am going to confront my NPD mom with all of the things I have held onto since childhood. Any advice? I am expecting her to blameshift, deny, get angry anything else?

DixieD posted 7/25/2014 09:24 AM

I don't come in here often because my NPD issues are with parents or IL's now, instead of dealing with spouses and X's like the rest of this tribe. I don't know how you do it. ((((hugs))))) to everyone.

DrJekyll, I've read your posts and your mother sounds a lot like my MIL. I give her the label Borderline PD, but NPD fits too. Either way, she was terrible. She pitted her kids against each other for her approval their whole lives and still does it, even though they are (suppose to be) grown ups. She might as well keep a score card stuck to her fridge with the weekly stats of who is in top position based on what they did for her last. But you don't need to read the score card because she'll just openly tell you.

I remember the first time I met her, we walked into the house and she told my (future) BIL to tell the father that his favorite son (my husband) was there. Who says something like that to their kid?! I think I stood there with my mouth hanging open in shock. It didn't get better from there, only worse. My husband was her preferred child, but not always the favorite. He just had a higher starting position than his brother. And actually he wasn't his father's favorite, her saying that to BIL was just a way to keep him in his place -- which was down.

I used to think that woman made my life hell, but really that was all my fault because I stuck around instead of getting the hell away from them. When my MIL found out my husband had an affair she said, 'How could you do this to me?' To her? But really she did consider herself to be the most important woman in his life, so that shouldn't have been a surprise. Things have changed a lot since he's seen his mother for what she's really like and won't play her games anymore. He doesn't vie for her attention, approval or so-called love anymore. It was very freeing and by doing that, he started to emotional mature, which she has tried to stop for years. She always wanted him to stay her little boy.

Getting to your question, what do you hope to gain from confronting your mother? Is there any part of you that is hoping she's going to see the light or apologize, or some kind of positive outcome from it, and will you be disappointed if that doesn't happen? I understand you expect all the negatives, but do you hope against hope for any positives as well? I can see getting all this stuff out of you and journalling it. My husband did that. And if you just need to say it, that's fine, but if you have expectations attached to it in anyway, it may hurt more if you don't get the response you're hoping for.

Do you have boundaries in place for moving forward? Good luck.

[This message edited by DixieD at 9:28 AM, July 25th (Friday)]

DrJekyll posted 7/25/2014 09:33 AM

thanks DixieD

of course I have hope. and of course it will hurt if she doesn't see the light. but I do not think I have expectations of it.

I think the feeling of face-to-face confrontation is for me. to prove to me that finally almost 40 years later I can stand up for myself. that I can take back me from being an extension of her. a healing moment for me. after reading "toxic parents" it seems that this is crucial for my autonomy, developing self, and healing.

I havent sorted the boundaries yet. currently i have established that I am no longer going to answer her calls when she calls. I prepare myself and then call her back when I am emotionally ready. when she texts i think about what she is saying for a few hours before responding.

meleanoro posted 7/25/2014 09:36 AM

DixieD had great questions for you, drjekyl.

Depending on your mom, you might also prepare yourself for guilt tripping ("all I've done for you") and pity party ("poor me, I'm an awful mother and my son hates me.")

I like what dixieD asked about what you hope to receive from this. Also, have you prepared mentally for complete, utter invalidation from her? It could happen, and it could be very painful for you.

I also ponder if part of you is hoping to se your mom's true a means of reassuring yourself she really is NPD.

Whatever happens, we're here for the aftermath if you want.

tired girl posted 7/25/2014 09:36 AM

Dr. J,

I was going to ask exactly what Dixie did, I have an NPD mother as well. What are you looking to gain from this? I am sure you know that there will never be any sort of apology coming and often they can take what you say and use it against you. So I would say be careful. I have learned to let go of what happened to me in my childhood, bottom line is she is who she is and she is not going to change. I can let go of that hope. Kind of freeing for me in a way.

Just be careful, dealing with an NPD is difficult on the best day.

DrJekyll posted 7/25/2014 09:40 AM

yeah, it is exhausting trying to sort through what her intentions are all the time.

I have tested the waters in a few text messages. and already get the whole "I don't remember that" and the "all that I have done for you" comments.

DixieD posted 7/25/2014 09:58 AM

Toxic parents is a good book. I still need to read Toxic Inlaws. There is no way to predict what she will do. So, shields up. It's not going to be easy. I wish you the best.

My vent:

I've realized my father is NPD. I thought at almost 80 my mother had finally realized it too, and still I think she has. She didn't protect me from him when I was a child. He always had to have his own way. She minimized his shitty behavior and made excuses for him, and I can get past all that. It sucks, but I can get past it. My mom has faults but she's not NPD.

Recently, after he and I had a blow up, I explained to her how I felt about him and she understood. She acknowledged what he's like and can see it more clearly now and that he's always been that way. He's been jealous of me and my relationship with her for a long time. I was put in the role of marriage counsellor was kid and he would bitch to me about what a victim he was.

I told her I needed NC from him for a while at least because he can easily push my buttons and I react. I still wanted contact with her, but wasn't going to call there and she would call me when he wasn't home.

Fast forward to this week, she calls me and he is in the background talking over her. Grrreat…. He wants on the phone for no other reason than to belittle her for something she's done and she hands him the #&*&$%$ phone. She used to always do that and I thought I'd made it clear how I feel about that. She sandbagged me!

I'm saying NO! NO! NO! and then he's on the phone with me. He starts in and it's the exact same thing that got us into an argument last time I talked to him. Word for word. I repeated a couple times -- 'I'm not getting into this with you, I'm not going there.' He hands the phone back to my mother and I tell her the conversation is over and I hang up.

WTF??? I stuck by my boundaries. I didn't let things escalate, so that's good. But dammit I feel betrayed by her. I thought she got it. I expect more from her than I really should. I'd like an apology but that's not going to happen. I've never gotten an apology from either of them for any of their shitty or neglectful behavior.

ok vent over.

DrJekyll posted 7/25/2014 10:30 AM

your mom was most likely mirroring you when talking with you. And then mirroring him on the phone call. being married to NPD I would imagine she lost herself a long time ago and accepted her role as extension of him.

Stay strong

tired girl posted 7/25/2014 10:43 AM


That is pretty much all you are going to get in any kind of conversation with her, unless she goes into a rage because you are blaming her. Not sure if your mother does that or not.


I am sure you have read about what happens to one parent when the other is NPD right? She is going to enable him. Always. The only way you are going to be able to talk to her without him there is to call and ask, if he is there then tell her you will call back later and hang up. Until she truly gets the message that you are going to remain NC with him, she will do what he wants. She may even stop answering your calls if he gets angry enough. You just have to decide how important it is to you to have a relationship with her without him involved. It may not be possible.

DixieD posted 7/25/2014 11:21 AM

DrJekyll, you may be right about the mirroring, but I know when she's doing things just to shut me up. She asked to read books on NPD for herself, and finished them. She liked them. She could identify with it and give examples. She could also see how she reacts to it that's not the best choice. BUT she's not going to admit she didn't protect me or that she was abused herself. She can't see or want to admit the extent of the damage that's been done. That's too much to admit.

I've wanted to save her and have had to drop that. She won't leave him either. She's too old. She doesn't think she could make it on her own, when really she could. He couldn't. And she knows he'd make his kids lives hell if she left, so she'll take a bullet for the team. She hopes he goes (dies) before she does. Very sad. I hate seeing the crap she put up with, the crap we put up with as kids and then the crap I put up with from my husband for the exact same reasons.

TG, it's hard because she's old, health is failing and I care about her. We have always had an odd relationship. Not your average mother/daughter one. I can tell her whatever I think. Be blunt. There has been poor boundaries on both sides. Actually I've been more pushy about their life and how they should live, than they are about mine. I've had the parent role and I shouldn't have had it.

She will always enable him. They've had this pattern, she would freak out, put the hammer down and make threats. He would be on 'good' behaviour and then push his luck more and more. She would let things slide or think/hope things would get better, live in denial and then when she couldn't deny it anymore or she got frustrated again, she'd blow up and it would restart all over again. Or she would just get so frustrated that she'd give in. Not worth the fight. I think she was in the let it slide/or just give up part of her cycle and she figured I should be there too. I'm not doing that anymore.

With anyone who doesn't understand boundaries, and I've had to work on it myself and still fail at it, they will push you with what's been 'normal' or history or habit, so you have to reenforce your own.

It sucks to have to choose to avoid her because I really want to avoid him. Although I'm currently not pleased with her either.

DrJekyll posted 7/25/2014 16:12 PM

Well tomorrow is going to be the big day. So any prayers, strength, thoughts, or whatever your beliefs are. please send the my way.

I have gotten her to agree to the time that my wife and I want. and that we will both be there.

Kajem posted 7/25/2014 16:26 PM

Sending prayers and strength for your talk drj. And prayers for peace afterwards


caregiver9000 posted 7/25/2014 20:53 PM

Sending strength and well wishes for all who need it.

I don't have experience with the parental N. I am grateful that there are those who share who can chime in with support and ideas. I have read that the child of an N is likely to pair up with a N as an adult, so perhaps there are others who haven't focused on the parental relationship.

I was remembering how grateful I was to find this group because I didn't have to begin every thread with an explanation of why I wasn't crazy and with a list of his flaws that meant please don't advise me to "co-parent." It was beyond a gift to find the voices who soothed and assured me that I wasn't failing my kids because I couldn't co-parent, or sometimes even function.

Healing is a process, but it was one that began for me, with this safe place. I guess I am feeling a bit melancholy tonight.


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