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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: The eternal dog house
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think my W is still in it?
Other BS's have you let your WS out?
Have they let themselves out?

I guess I am driving at can the M be on level playing field again when I hold the hall pass?

Is this a topic that people who claimed they are R'd have had with their spouse?

Just pondering really...it seems like that needs to be cleared up to be good again.

take care...



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Other BS's have you let your WS out?

Once I put both feet back in, yes.

I guess I am driving at can the M be on level playing field again when I hold the hall pass?

No. It will not survive long term.

Have they let themselves out?

I believe that HL came to a point where he became good with however the M turned out. At that point he became free.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5060 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Skan
♀ Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No. Once we both truly committed, there isn't a permanent resident there any more. Although each of us can visit it occasionally. I just can't see being fully committed and trying to hold that club over his head. He, however, is still holding that club over his head.

He's still working on forgiveness for himself. I suspect that when that happens, we'll enter a new phase in our R. Our R is pretty darned good right now, however!


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4926 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
plainpain
♀ Member
Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had to burn the trump card. We don't have a dog house. Either we are both in this marriage fully, honestly, equally, or we are not. We sleep in the same bed always. It is not fair and it will never be fair, but I did not stay married to him so that I could one day experience "fair".

(Wert)


Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
OW:21
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 807 | Registered: Jul 2013
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 7:11 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the responses guys like I said, I am just pondering.

He's still working on forgiveness for himself.

I think this is where my W is. She keeps herself in the dog house a bit. I don't hold is over her head or don't evaluate things in terms of even. It's not so much that things will never be even, its that they never really can be regardless. It's kind of like fair. It does not really exist. I don't mean in terms of A's, I just mean in life.

I think I will chat with her about to make sure.

take care....

[This message edited by wert at 7:15 AM, July 25th (Friday)]



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wert - by doghouse do you this to be different than boundaries? My boundaries have been intrinsically instilled so I don't feel there is a dog house situation.

with him, I mean the fact that he should never go to lunch with another woman = dog house or boundary?

If he wants to go fishing in Canada with the guys for a week I'm fine. If he wants to go to Vegas with the guys for a week I'm not. But is that dog house?

If he needs to stay at work for an extra hour I'm good with that. Probably wouldn't have been a year ago. That's not really a boundary though, it's trust? Is that what you mean?


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

The conditions we face do not define us. They remind us of who we are and who we want to be.


Posts: 5253 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
BtraydWife
♀ Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It was only after he started holding himself responsible for our situation, for the triggers we faced every day, for the difficulty in doing many mundane tasks in life, for changing every thing about us, that I could let it go. I didn't need to be the security guard once he committed to R and took over those tasks himself. It took many years to get to that point though, unfortunately.

I'd have to ask if you are getting every thing you need for R if she is still in the dog house. I wouldn't be able to if I wasn't getting every thing. I don't think it's possible until you trust her with both-looking out for you and policeing herself. And that comes only when she proves herself trustworthy and capable of both.


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 1874 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

rachelc - No not boundaries. I mean the general tone in the M where she hosed everything up and still needs to make it up to me.

I'd have to ask if you are getting every thing you need for R if she is still in the dog house

Spot on question - Am I getting everything I need from R? I am getting enough, everything is an awful lot for me and I am not sure anyone could do that. That said, I trust that she is policing herself.

I think this is a her thing and less of a me thing. I sense from her that she still beats herself up over this and still thinks she owns me. I would really like for her to unburden herself from that. I think it is just a conversation point for us.

I posed the questions because I was working though it for myself and thought I may be instructive for others to explore this as well.

take care...



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
karmahappens
♀ Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In order to R the BS has to let the trump card go.

If you are with a WS that gets it, you don't need a trump card. The WS will do whatever is needed to right the ship.The BS will recognize their need to heal as well.

Fair and even become insignificant. One-upping and being right are thrown away.

Going forward it becomes about being a team, creating the best foundation two people are able to make. Ensuring the new house we build is a safe place for both people to grow, heal and support one another.

It's part of the process. Letting go frees you but also leaves you vulnerable. Both the WS and BS need to be on an even playing field and the WS cannot live in shame and guilt believing to be less deserving of a bright future. They need to know their worth in the marriage as well.

It's the new reality we work towards. Two emotionally healthy people working together to create something better than they ever imagined.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3845 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's not so much that things will never be even, its that they never really can be regardless

I find this part of your statement interesting, what is it about?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5060 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Karma - agreed.

TG - I guess I don't believe in equality or fairness in general anymore. They fall under the same category as blame, just worthless concepts.

My son when he was 4, after I told him to tell the truth, asked what is truth? I thought about it and said, it's what actually happens(s).

Everything else is just dressing. Blame, fairness, equality really are just a bunch of stuff that people make up. What ultimately matters is if you can reconcile those concepts for yourself and your partner is down with that. From that point you can build together.

Great question. I really appreciate all the questions because it helps me clarify my thoughts and put them in the context of my sitch.

take care...



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
Joanh
♀ Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hope you don't mind a response from a WW.

The feeling of debt , or feeling of allways making up is an internal battle I have within myself. I know I can never "makeup or help even" I will allways know that what I have done can never repay the gift and the love and the strength it has taken my BH to stay and try again.

This topic in a sense came up this week when my BH surprised me by showing up at midnight,(scared the crap out of me, I was texting him someone is in my yard!) He works away. And then he walked through the door.

I was so happy and surprised, after the scare went away, I just hugged him and couldn't let him go. And then it hit me, And then it hitme, this is how he came home, and found out. And the waves the shock , his face all of it, and then the OMG this man how do I ever repay him for this. And just a million feeling at once.

Woke up in the morning and new what he was going through, he tried so hard to not let me know, he doesn't want me to feel bad, to go down on myself, we talked . I approached what I believed and in the end it was okay, He is off to work again.
Today your post means a lot. I don't know if it will ever be possible for me to forgive myself enough to move past that. He doesn't hold me in the doghouse, In fact he does the opposite,or tries.

The feeling of owing or making up needs to be gone, I believe to, and I am aware I feel this sometimes and have to check myself, cause reality is to have power over someone doesn't make it real. I worked hard in the beginning to figure out whether I was here because I had to make it up, or cause this is where I belong. Ihope this makes sense.

the feeling of never good enough and underserving go hand in hand in making it up I believe too. So it also a self love and respect. Does your Wife love herself yet. I know I am just starting to find things Ican respect myself about again and love myself for really the first time. I can somedays look at the mirror and say you have come a long ways from 21 months ago.

Sorry its long, it just is something I can relate to with your wife and I know my husband knows I feel this too and so does not want me to. He just wants me to love him honestly and fully.

Its a hard one for both.


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 435 | Registered: Apr 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe in we are in a marriage where there is no scorekeeping going on then the issue of fair ceases to be a problem. As long as one partner continues to keep score on who has done what wrong, then someone is always in the dog house and it never feels fair.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5060 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
karmahappens
♀ Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Joanh

I will allways know that what I have done can never repay the gift and the love and the strength it has taken my BH to stay and try again.

Growing, healing and becoming the safest partner for your H is all it takes.

It's a simple concept, takes time and work....the end result is priceless.

As much as I wished it hadn't happened, I would go through this experience again if I knew it would bring us to where we are today.

Start to see yourself through your husband's eyes, he sees in you what you don't yet see in yourself. Believe him, trust you, and eventually loving yourself will all come naturally.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3845 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I dunno. I hope not. The hall pass thing makes me think of operating at a level of superiority, which I've never really felt. Pissed and angry, insecure, at a disadvantage yeah. Not like there was a magic "Oh yeah?" card though. I dunno if that's how you meant it.

There are still a lot of awkward moments, like watching a show where a couple of people are cheating, and sometimes it leads to a pause and discussion. Pretty sure that's not what you mean though.

I don't think my wife tortures herself about it anymore, either. I haven't seen her break down crying out of nowhere and start talking about how much she fucked everything up. So I guess by general tone of marriage no, though I am not sure if I ever really felt like that.

I get what you mean about fair.


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7476 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I held that card for a really long time. It was like my safety net. I've let it go though, as I want a true and equal partnership. Can't have that with an uneven balance of power.

I wonder sometimes if that is what forgiveness really is. As many of you know, I'm not such a fan and I can't say the word. But I wonder if I don't show it by my actions regardless.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6549 | Registered: Jan 2011
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wonder sometimes if that is what forgiveness really is.

Perhaps it is for you and that is all that matters. Kinda like I was saying about a lot of concepts are just that, concepts...its how we apply them that counts.



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, July 25th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You're talking about the 'affair hammer', wert. That oh-so-powerful macguffin that can squash any and all arguments or protests of inequity by the WS with a cry of "Yeah? Why don't you just got fuck someone else to fix this problem, too?!?'

Like Rebreather said, I think forgiveness is deciding to lay aside the 'affair hammer' once and for all.

I'm not there yet. Maybe someday.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2164 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
Topic Posts: 18

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