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Divorce/Separation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Actions have consequences
mhca
♂ Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey prospective waywards, if you register for Ashley Madison and have affairs and lie to your husband and put him through months of false R and then refuse to engage in introspection to make your BS feel safe, just a heads up:

- Do not be surprised if there comes a point where his tolerance comes to an abrupt end and he is just done.
- Do not expect him to assume that it is he that moves out.
- Do not expect him to agree to continue to pay for a lovely beachfront home in which he does not live.
- Do not assume that your part time home business will lead to self sufficiency.
- Do not believe that he will be satisfied with every other weekend and one night a week with the kids he loves dearly.
- Do not expect appeals to "the good of the children" to result in generosity to you.
- Do not expect him to continue being a co-dependant reflexively agreeable milquetoast.

Just saying.

[This message edited by mhca at 8:21 PM, July 28th (Monday)]


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 646 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, mhca. Welcome to D/S forum. It looks good on you.

(my apologies if I have you confused with another poster who recently wondered what it was like down here in this forum. The welcome stands either way!)


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5842 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
gahurts
♂ Member
Member # 33699
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well said!


"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indominable will" - Mahatma Gandi

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - Aubrie


Posts: 3424 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Georgia
mhca
♂ Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey caregiver, I think you do have me mixed up with someone else but I'll accept the compliment regardless!

So BTW everyone, as you might guess, this post comes after yet another conversation with my STBXWW, who seems to be coming up to speed very slowly on what happens when you remorselessly cheat on a loving husband and devoted father who also insists on maintaining a modicum of self-respect.

[This message edited by mhca at 11:25 PM, July 28th (Monday)]


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 646 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
bigskyblues
♂ Member
Member # 36759
Default  Posted: 2:47 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great post mhca! When that fog lifts a little they start to realize how pathetic they are, then the fog returns and all is good

BSB


BH 50s
xWW 50s

Dday1 7-2012
Dday2 8-2012
Divorce 9-2012

4 kids all adults.

Married 22+ years.

I have moved on and life is good!


Posts: 249 | Registered: Sep 2012
stronger08
♂ Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 3:44 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Instilling consequence is one of the most important thing a BS can do. I constantly push that fact to everyone and anyone who ask for help here. My XWW did not have one fucking care in the world until I shut off the financial tit and filed. I find this to be extremely overlooked in JFO and a very useful tool to get a WS head out of their ass. Consequence = motivation and without those there is no reason for a WS to attempt to change their ways. Its too bad that we usually wait until the S/D period to use this helpful strategy.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5676 | Registered: Nov 2007
GingerAle
♀ Member
Member # 33822
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ahhhh yes, consequences! Good for you, mhca and welcome to D/S


My WH (The KISA, NPD) 6 month EA in 2010
2 other EAs in 2012 & 2013
Filed for D 7/2014


Posts: 420 | Registered: Nov 2011
mhca
♂ Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This came about when we were discussing the plans for "the talk" with the kids. She wanted to give them assurance that we'd be keeping the house through the end of the school year (so about another year.)

Sounds great in principle, but it's an expensive house and if we tell the kids that for sure we're keeping it, that means I'll be on the hook to make sure it's paid for -- or, I'll be guilty of "kicking them out." This, while I'm bearing the expense of a new $3000+ / mo apartment because that's what you have to pay in the San Francisco bay area if you want to avoid being swallowed alive by a giant rat while you sleep.

In reality, I'm the one with the full-time job, and even if she changes her mind and decides to return to the corporate world, that might not be for a while. So she will have more flexibility to be with the kids. So she'll probably have more time with them, at least in the short term. So, she argues, she should stay in the house because that's better for the kids.

I told her there are ways to do this if that's her priority, but I'm not willing to stipulate to it unilaterally. She got upset and hung up.

So great. She sips Chardonnay with whichever new boyfriend she brings to our balcony overlooking the Pacific Ocean while I slum in an apartment. And she doesn't have to deal with me or my stuff or any of the encumbrances of a husband that is so puritanical in his thinking that he thinks it's wrong to get on AM and have affairs. And if only I hadn't found out this would all have blown over and been just fine.

That's her reward for fucking me over? I don't think so.

Pissed.


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 646 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
yearsofpain25
♂ Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It all sucks shit mhca. The injustice of it all is so maddening.

I know your pissed as all hell right now and have every right to be. Just wanted to pop in and say good luck and godspeed with telling the kids tonight. Keep in mind that the same feeling of injustice that your WW is putting you through is the same feeling of injustice that your kids are going to be feeling very shortly. You and your kids will be in my thoughts tonight.

Sending you strength and courage to get you through.

yop


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2154 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome MHCA! There are some good people in here.

Instilling consequence is one of the most important thing a BS can do. I constantly push that fact to everyone and anyone who ask for help here. My XWW did not have one fucking care in the world until I shut off the financial tit and filed. I find this to be extremely overlooked in JFO and a very useful tool to get a WS head out of their ass. Consequence = motivation and without those there is no reason for a WS to attempt to change their ways. Its too bad that we usually wait until the S/D period to use this helpful strategy.
^^^^AMEN! This time a billion!

I didn't get it until it was too late as well. The thing that I didn't get about enforcing consequences is once you do it you sit back and see if your WS is truly remoresful or not. By calling them on their bullshit and holding them accountable you can in some cases avoid false R and some of the other pitfalls BS's face by not truly recognizing the signs that a WS is truly unremoresful. If they don't own their shit as they are watching you metaphorically or literally walking out the door then they were never going to do it in the first place. At least that was my experience and I know others around here as well.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1905 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
FrmrBH80124
♂ Member
Member # 42967
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

- Do not be surprised if there comes a point where his tolerance comes to an abrupt end and he is just done.
- Do not expect him to assume that it is he that moves out.
- Do not expect him to agree to continue to pay for a lovely beachfront home in which he does not live.
- Do not assume that your part time home business will lead to self sufficiency.
- Do not believe that he will be satisfied with every other weekend and one night a week with the kids he loves dearly.
- Do not expect appeals to "the good of the children" to result in generosity to you.
- Do not expect him to continue being a co-dependant reflexively agreeable milquetoast.

Just saying.

Well said mhca, well said.

I'm always amazed at waywards and their self entitled beliefs. They blow up the marriage and expect to be rewarded for it!!!!! Seriously, WTF kind of thinking is that?

It's your WW that should be in the apartment not you! You should be enjoying that beach front view with your new girlfriend and kids.

I really hate the court system at times in that they reward such crappy irresponsible behavior!

Like YOP25 said, wishing the best of luck as you tell your kids!

[This message edited by FrmrBH80124 at 12:38 PM, July 29th (Tuesday)]


ME - BH 45
Her - XWS 30
D - April 2010 - never looked back and good riddance.
Happily remarried!

Though much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days
moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are


Posts: 170 | Registered: Apr 2014
Gemini71
♀ Member
Member # 40115
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Love your list. Most of it can be summed up with the following.


Edited to correct stupid typos.

Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still progress.


Posts: 1803 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Illinois, USA
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MHCA

Are you kidding me???? After what she has done to you she gets to live in comfort and resume Ashley Madison.

If i were you I'd go bankrupt before I would give her that. Military kids get moved all the time and turn out fine. She'll stay in the house, [poison your kids telling them what a poor parent you were, and you bear the brunt of it. She needs to have to move somewhere, get a job and understand that if you are married you do not fuck multiple other men and enjoy all the comforts of your previous life.

That house needs to be sold so you do not live like a junkie.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
justme1264
♂ Member
Member # 42890
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fawking love it mhca

I think it's the unavoidable consequences our WWs experience which give us the sweetest sense of pleasure. Despite the fact there is nothing reassuring to the damage they have caused. For me, it's knowing that no matter where she goes, who she gets her immediate gratification from, and no matter how much she rationalizes her actions, reality will always remind her of what she ruined and can never get back.


Don't kick me when I am down. Because when I get back up, you're f*cked.

Posts: 329 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: justme1264
Harriet
♀ Member
Member # 34543
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If she is so worried about what's "better for the kids," what the hell was she doing on Ashley Madison? She's only concerned about them when it suits her needs.


D-Day Spring 2008
3 years false R
Divorce Final 6/7/12

Posts: 469 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: California
mhca
♂ Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 3:14 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Going to bed now. Tomorrow (Wednesday) before dinner is "the talk." I'm guessing DS15 already knows (about the A and assuming that we'll D) but will be very upset, and DS10 probably doesn't know about either A or D and it's hard to say how he'll do. Sometimes he gets silly when he hears bad news. He's got a tough exterior, but inside he's sensitive like his older brother.

We've both been reading books on D and how to handle telling the kids. We've written out a little script.

It won't include any definite promises other than our desire to keep things stable for them and for both of us to continue to be major factors in their lives (just not so much at the same time.)

We'll give them the basic message, including that the decision is final, that we aren't going to guarantee any housing situation but we'll strive for stability and staying close to where we are now, and they'll keep their schools and friends, etc.

We'll allow them to talk about whatever they like and ask questions, make sure they're not traumatized (too much). After we'll eat pizza as a family. As alternative, we might split up for 1:1 parent:kid time if it looks like they need that.

I've decided that this conversation is not an appropriate time to bring up the A in any way. If DS15 (or DS10, but unlikely) forces it by asking a question that can't be evaded without lies, or tells us that he already knows, then I'll probably take him aside and explain the basic story. Better if WW would, but I don't think she could. In any event I don't want him knowing about it but thinking he's not allowed to talk about it and that he would somehow be expected to bottle it up.

None of this is to say the A stays secret forever. At such time it looks like there's a real obstacle to growth, and understanding more about why the D happened would be therapeutic, then we might tell them more details including that there was an A and that it was the major cause of the D (though the D could have happened anyway since things were tough before the A).

For now my main concern is keeping the conversation controlled and not adding a layer of tawdry shit to this already difficult message. I want them to understand the decision, its implications, that we both love them, that they're going to be OK, and so on. But giving them information that might cause them to diminish their perception of their mother would not be useful now.

This will be a tough night for all four of us. Please think happy thoughts and send them our way.


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 646 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
meleanoro
♀ Member
Member # 6210
Default  Posted: 3:40 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mhca, you sound grounded, mature, certain, and A VERY GOOD FATHER. Your focus on your kids, versus retribution (in his particular conversation) is good. I also like you won't promise them anything specific change wise, which leaves you flexibility and options while remaining a man of your word to your kids.


Instilling consequence is one of the most important thing a BS can do. I constantly push that fact to everyone and anyone who ask for help here. My XWW did not have one fucking care in the world until I shut off the financial tit and filed. I find this to be extremely overlooked in JFO and a very useful tool to get a WS head out of their ass. Consequence = motivation and without those there is no reason for a WS to attempt to change their ways. Its too bad that we usually wait until the S/D period to use this helpful strategy.

For some of us (I wonder if gender plays a role?) my take has been that if I have to instill hard consequences, I am effectively dealing with a teenager, and that's unappealing at best. My take is, I shouldn't have to have consequences. My WS should honestly know this shit and pull himself together. If I have to "drive" that idea home, I'm being a mommy.

That I finally have the balls now to instill consequences is a reflection of me having checked out of the marriage, which means I really don't bother i stilling them: I simply work on my ducks.

[This message edited by meleanoro at 3:41 AM, July 30th (Wednesday)]


Me: Tired BS.
(I frequently edit for typos)

Posts: 276 | Registered: Jan 2005
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 5:18 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just my two cents here....and I had 2 kids in middle and high school at the time so I went thru it.

1. Do not be the one to leave the house. Just don't. I don't care if she does not work right now and she can be home for the kids, she lost that rite when she cheated and lied to you. She has set this up so well for her to continue her cushy life, "soft sell to the kids" so that they will have to be on board and YOU the BS and bread winner leaves the house. Ummmm....I don't think so. Don't do it. Have HER get an apartment someplace and live on her own and think about that for awhile.

2. Do not soft sell this....kids are not stupid. Its not easy and its painful, period. No details but if they ask then you let them know why dad and mom are separating. When parents are breaking up or living apart kids know there is another person, trust me, they may already know or suspect something. Be honest, they need a stable parent. My boys to this day even though they are older still look to me for big decisions and to be the one who is always there for them....they know who spoke truly and kept things somewhat calm during the storm.

3. No pizza family dinners together. Sorry but this is soft selling this again. Once your wife implodes everyone's world you should not immediately play happy family, you think its more for the kids but it is not, they need to see firm boundries and only making it easy for her, not the kids or you.

4. Stop talking with her about all of this, go NC and attorney only and keep it about finances and kids. Thats it.

I know this is hard to hear but you must not try to make this "easy" for her. If she stomps out of the house or doesn't like it or says you are mean, well she was going to do that anyway. Trust me, she now thinks she can convince you that you need to be the one to leave, she keeps the house and lifestyle and will bring in her new friends to mooch off of her. She has no consequences right now other then a little bit of uncomfort.

I agree that actions have consequences, you will need to be strong and enforce them.


Posts: 5662 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 5:29 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MHCA

Read what Reality Bites just wrote you. It is not retribution but justice. She destroyed the family. She is not entitled to remain in that house with the kids thinking nothing specific happened and you be the outcast.
And the minute this is over she becomes nothing in your life.
If you let her off the book in any way the your title is no right

Actions do have consequences

Teach your kids and her that

Good luck


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
HobbesTheTiger
♂ Member
Member # 41477
Default  Posted: 6:12 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I strongly suggest you set up counselling (perhaps through schools, if finances don't allow sth else), participation in support groups and maybe also encourage them to talk about this to some other family adult figure (like an uncle etc.) as a neutral party.

Also, I strongly recommend reading a book called Families and how to survive them by Skynner. Also, I strongly recommend reading a book called Toxic Parents by Susan Forward (available online in PDF if you google it) - not because I think you're a toxic parent, but because she might be - it will help you understand what your kids are/will be exposed to and how to help them.

Best wishes to all of you!


BxBf, 26
Lots of FOO&other issues, working it through therapy
Legal profession

Posts: 203 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Continental Europe
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