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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: the question circles around on itself
Neznayou
♀ Member
Member # 40654
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I've mulled over in my mind a post in another Wayward thread, the one where the poster explained what "just" means, the one where he explained that it may not have been the OM, but there was something there that was more valuable to the WW than the BH. (That's a very insightful way of looking at it. The rephrasing of the question which desperately needed to happen at my house.) Mind you, I know I haven't spent as much time on this as I need to and plan to, however, since reading the post last night I've been asking myself: What did I find in the situation (i.e. the Affair, the circumstances, the AP) that I could not/ would not/ did not find at home with my BH? Every answer I have so far come up with circles back to the response: BH tried to give me ___ or did give me ___ or would have given me ____ if I had only asked. Anyone have any useful questions to break through this?
Danke


Me: WW
Caught at AP's house: 10 Aug 2012
Admitted PA: 12 Aug 2012
TT ended: Jan 2014

"Power, Lincoln, real power comes not from hate, but from truth."


Posts: 286 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: America to Europe
StartingFreshNow
♀ Member
Member # 44224
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What post are you talking about? I'd like to read it before trying to answer your question.


Me: WW
2 young kids
DDay - Dec 2013 (EA), TT
DDay 2 - Jul 28, 2014 (PA), TT
DDay 3 - end of Aug/beg of Sep 2014
(All the same A)

Posts: 284 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: USA
StartingFreshNow
♀ Member
Member # 44224
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to say I constantly run in circles like that with my thinking so I really like this post.


Me: WW
2 young kids
DDay - Dec 2013 (EA), TT
DDay 2 - Jul 28, 2014 (PA), TT
DDay 3 - end of Aug/beg of Sep 2014
(All the same A)

Posts: 284 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: USA
Neznayou
♀ Member
Member # 40654
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's page 5 of The Good, The Bad and Some Ugly. The whole thread is on page 2. My BH showed the post by Owl. That's what got my brain going in this direction. I got the idea to re-read my journal and maybe get with a new counselor. Hopefully going over everything from the beginning can shed more light on the deeper layers.

Owl, I hope I didn't break any etiquette rules by referring to your post. Reading it was a much needed light bulb moment.


Me: WW
Caught at AP's house: 10 Aug 2012
Admitted PA: 12 Aug 2012
TT ended: Jan 2014

"Power, Lincoln, real power comes not from hate, but from truth."


Posts: 286 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: America to Europe
StartingFreshNow
♀ Member
Member # 44224
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for sharing those posts - I agree, they were very helpful for me to read as well. I can't answer your initial question, but you're not alone - I know that :)


Me: WW
2 young kids
DDay - Dec 2013 (EA), TT
DDay 2 - Jul 28, 2014 (PA), TT
DDay 3 - end of Aug/beg of Sep 2014
(All the same A)

Posts: 284 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: USA
familyfirst
♀ Member
Member # 42651
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, July 31st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for bringing up that post, it was a very good read
there was something there that was more valuable to the WW than the BH

Logic dictates this has to be true, but once you're out of the A, you can't picture that ever being the case.

I've been thinking about this for a while and the only reason I can only come up is feeling good about myself. Validation. Becoming that witty, beautiful, desireable young woman who was risky and doesn't always follow the rules was more important than potentially losing BH. How shameful


Posts: 201 | Registered: Mar 2014
Neznayou
♀ Member
Member # 40654
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Mods.
I made a mistake. Could you please remove the stop sign? I'll be more careful next time.
Thanks,
Neznayou


Me: WW
Caught at AP's house: 10 Aug 2012
Admitted PA: 12 Aug 2012
TT ended: Jan 2014

"Power, Lincoln, real power comes not from hate, but from truth."


Posts: 286 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: America to Europe
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've put in the request to get the Stop Sign removed. BS', please hold off on posting until it is removed


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37180 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 5:20 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The Stop Sign has been removed. BS's are welcome to post


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37180 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Forged1
♂ Member
Member # 43418
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BH tried to give me ___ or did give me ___ or would have given me ____ if I had only asked.

Why didn't you ask?


Me: BH - 30s
Her: WW - 30s

Married - 2008
PA with boss for at least 5 months in 2013, possibly longer.
DDay - Feb 2014
Separated, heading to D
==================================
At this stage, I'm pretty much bulletproof.


Posts: 271 | Registered: May 2014 | From: USA
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In most cases it doesn't seem like A's begin comparison. It's not a situation of either/or its a situation of BOTH. 2 is always more than 1, whatever that more is. A's aren't based in lust, they are based in greed.

The comparison comes in second as a mode of justification.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2586 | Registered: Aug 2012
Neznayou
♀ Member
Member # 40654
Default  Posted: 2:51 AM, August 2nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why didn't I ask?

The response to this question will take more time to answer than I have right now. The short answer is I was scared. I felt like we had "grown apart" and if we started talking, we'd realize we had nothing in common any more. I was conflict avoidant (I still struggle with it) and I would over react to advice, suggestions or comments (I still struggle with this too).
I'll come back and flesh out this answer later in the weekend.


Me: WW
Caught at AP's house: 10 Aug 2012
Admitted PA: 12 Aug 2012
TT ended: Jan 2014

"Power, Lincoln, real power comes not from hate, but from truth."


Posts: 286 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: America to Europe
Neznayou
♀ Member
Member # 40654
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, August 2nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not laying blame anywhere; I'm am adult and, although bad ones, I made my own choices.

In my family, there was no abuse of any kind. It was a little like the Cleaver family, but that's not so funny anymore. Everthing was fine. Everyone was happy. No one was sad or nervous. No one disagreed. We went to church three times a week. Mom stayed home with the kids; we brought the evening paper to Dad.

The first time my husband and I had a disagreement, I thought, "we're arguing. We are going to end up divorced." What was the argument about all those years ago? He wanted to know what movie I wanted to watch. Like I saw my father do all the time to my mother, I tried to go along with whatever BH wanted.

I never saw behind the curtain of my parents' marriage. I never saw the give and take, the negotiations which make a marriage work. So I got quiet, I quit talking to my husband some where along the way between the engagement and the wedding. I had very clear ideas about what it meant to be a wife and later what it meant to be a mother. Very, very narrow ideas. All my husband has ever wanted is me.


Me: WW
Caught at AP's house: 10 Aug 2012
Admitted PA: 12 Aug 2012
TT ended: Jan 2014

"Power, Lincoln, real power comes not from hate, but from truth."


Posts: 286 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: America to Europe
Owl6118
♂ Member
Member # 42806
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, August 3rd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Neznayou--

since I wrote that post, I have wanted to respond to your follow up, but I found it surprisingly hard. What I wrote to SS17 bubbled up after weeks of following her thread and thinking about it in the back of my mind. Something clicked, and I tried to share it. I still have mixed feelings about it--I am not a therapist of any kind, and probably got in over my head. All I can say to me, you, SS17 and all of us, is a compassionate professional therapist is an irreplacable partner in working through psychological trauma, be it from depression, substance abuse, or infidelity.

But to try to tackle your question--only you can find the answers. Without knowing more of your story it is hard to say, there are too many possibilities--everything from, your husband was profoundly depressed and out of his illness could not respond to your needs, to, your husband was in the pink of mental health, was showing you love in his love language and trying as hard as he could, and you had just already closed off and were not asking. Based on what you did write, the latter of these extremes seems maybe closer to the reality in your case.

But let's step away from the specific question to the underlying strategy of how to go about getting to the bottom of your broken. Until recently, I was in a 3-year major depression. Turning it around was the single hardest thing I have ever done, and that includes harder than getting sober (I am an alcoholic as well). To do so, I had to dig and dig through layers and layers of denial and insecurity.

What I learned is-- you need to become a compassionate, but very hard nosed and very skeptical listener to yourself. When you ask a question like, "Why didn't I just ask my husband for these things I felt I needed," you will try on various answers.

What you have to learn to do is stare hardest at the exact spots you flinch from the most. Listen very carefully for the difference between two forms of denial. If you try and answer your question, and your inner response t your proposed answer is a sort of indifferent shrug, just a sense of "Naw, that doesn't seem very right or interesting," it is not the right answer. If you try on an answer and your inner response is "NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. I don't know what it is, but it is NOT that." Well--then you are on to something. Because it probably IS that, or something close to it.

And you need to keep pushing. You write,

The first time my husband and I had a disagreement, I thought, "we're arguing. We are going to end up divorced." What was the argument about all those years ago? He wanted to know what movie I wanted to watch. Like I saw my father do all the time to my mother, I tried to go along with whatever BH wanted.

I never saw behind the curtain of my parents' marriage. I never saw the give and take, the negotiations which make a marriage work. So I got quiet, I quit talking to my husband some where along the way between the engagement and the wedding. I had very clear ideas about what it meant to be a wife and later what it meant to be a mother. Very, very narrow ideas. All my husband has ever wanted is me.

Push harder. Are you SURE you didn't see behind the curtain? Becuase it sounds like you entered your marriage with an unbeleivable amount of fear. Don't let the phrase 'confict averse' lull you becuase it is a label--keep digging. What did you think conflict would do? Why was your innermost self convinced that your anger in a conflict would be so destructive, so annihilating, that it had to be suppressed at all costs?

Look always at the REAL price you paid to meet your needs. If your need was simply to avoid conflict yet get some needs met, you paid a huge price in loss of self-respect, and loss of integrity to meet that need. This means the need was not a minor aversion. It was a soul-twisting fear.

That's what I am talking about--find the real fear, the one that is so scary it is almost impossible for you to look at. When you find it, or part of it, you will know, because it will hurt like hell. But you'll also know that you have begun to uncover what it was that made you into a person I am sure you do not want to be--a person who sacrificed integrity and the trust of those she loved the most to assuage that fear.


Posts: 62 | Registered: Mar 2014
Neznayou
♀ Member
Member # 40654
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Owl. Still don't know why you're here, but clearly you have perspective and wisdom we can all benefit from.

I've decided on a two-prong approach:

1. I'm reading back through my journal, looking for what I said back then and seeing if two years' space offers any new insights.

2. I'm going to find a short-term counselor, someone who doesn't know me. As I start from the beginning telling my story again, maybe I'll see something in the retelling that I wasn't picking up on before, maybe she'll ask new questions which will push my thought process in a new direction.

My current (and not to be replaced) IC agrees that this is a good idea. She said, "It won't hurt to try." Um, yeah, it will. It's gonna suck. But I have to poke the bear.


Me: WW
Caught at AP's house: 10 Aug 2012
Admitted PA: 12 Aug 2012
TT ended: Jan 2014

"Power, Lincoln, real power comes not from hate, but from truth."


Posts: 286 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: America to Europe
Owl6118
♂ Member
Member # 42806
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Owl. Still don't know why you're here, but clearly you have perspective and wisdom we can all benefit from.

Oh, I don't mean to be mysterious. i came online to try to get help healing my marriage from the damage my emotional absence inflicted on it during my major depression. I found that people surviving infidelity had done the best and hardest thinking about recovery in general, so I came to learn from them. You are right though, I am an outsider, and likely a tenporary poster. I have learned a lot, and tried to give some back, but I worry if I stay much longer it would be for the wrong reasons. But I will always be grateful for the tools and inspiration I found here.


Posts: 62 | Registered: Mar 2014
Topic Posts: 16

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