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User Topic: For the womenz or the menz
tfkeel
♂ Member
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, July 31st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS, WS, Madhatters, everyone welcome.

Many threads on this website attest to the fact that women lose attraction and respect for their "nice guy" husband, and while it does not "cause" them to cheat, it is clear that it is a contributing factor, both before the affair, and in the lack of desire to reconcile following the affair.

But I am perplexed by this, maybe because of my FOO, I was taught that love is kind, patient, longsuffering, keeping no "scorecard" -

Can it be that the most altruistic men among us will be the ones cheated on? Can it be that the men with the GREATEST virtues among humankind be the ones to whom long TT is dealt?

Could the whimsical "no good deed goes unpunished" be one of life's great truths?

[This message edited by tfkeel at 6:08 PM, July 31st (Thursday)]


Posts: 525 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
Lyonesse
♀ Member
Member # 32943
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, July 31st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I doubt it. My husband was the uber-nice guy. Seemed so laid back and kind to everyone. I always loved and respected him and felt so grateful that I got one of the "good ones." He was the one who cheated.

I think the women who lose attraction for their nice guy husbands are the ones with screwed up values; the same as the nice girls get cheated on because something is wrong with their husbands.

When we say on SI there was nothing the BS did to "make" the WS cheat, it really means it was nothing you did - good or bad. If you were a nice guy married to a nice girl who appreciated you and understood what mattered in a relationship, there would have been no problem.


Me: BS, 40's.

Posts: 1797 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: West Coast
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, July 31st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It doesn't matter whether the BS is an angel or the devil himself, the A still would have happened. Affairs and the shit storm that comes with them have nothing to do with the BS. Nothing the BS did or didn't do caused any of it.

My marriage was toxic and my husband was really awful at times. That doesn't mean a thing, I had an A because I was a broken, selfish POS.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1253 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 6:58 PM, July 31st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sure love is patient and kind, but it's not a doormat. Nobody respects a doormat. I think we'd have to dig in this pretty far to get to what those sayings mean and who they are aimed at.

That said, it doesn't make someone cheat. I do think being overly patient and kind can hinder reconciliation.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6549 | Registered: Jan 2011
Herkemeyer
♂ Member
Member # 36910
Default  Posted: 7:23 AM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, at what point are you considered a doormat? Where is that line? Are you saying at least with an asshole you know where you stand?


BH-43
(F?)WW-39 (neznayou)
DDay-08/10/12 TT for 18 Months (I think)
Married 19 years

Posts: 134 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Colorado
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nobody respects a doormat.
That's the thing, though...if your spouse is making them self a doormat for YOUR convenience, shouldn't this make them MORE admirable, not less...?


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2173 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
2married2quit
♂ Member
Member # 36555
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You've only heard one side of the argument. Mostly from women who think that their "nice guy" husband was taken advantage of by a predatorial woman. Sure, in some cases that may be true, but not in all. It's a choice and everyone makes a choice to do, or not to do. If you're "nice", well maybe that was used AS a weakness to seduce you; But you STILL made a choice.

I'm a nice guy and I got screwed over by my wife. From the outside, I"m the nice guy and she's more of an alpha chick. SO THERE! I was taken advantage of by my own wife who assumed that I'm so nice that I'd forgive anything or that she would get a way with it.

[This message edited by 2married2quit at 8:10 AM, August 1st (Friday)]


BS - Me 43 WS - Her 41
DDAY - June 2012 (found the texts)
DDAY2 - Next Day (found out who) EA
TT- till 9/2012 (some PA)
Married 20yrs. 2kids
Status: in careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels

Posts: 1397 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: USA
SadFlower
♀ Member
Member # 37725
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tfkeel, there are plenty of women who love, respect, and cherish "nice guys." I am one of them. And yet...

My husband was the uber-nice guy. Seemed so laid back and kind to everyone. I always loved and respected him and felt so grateful that I got one of the "good ones." He was the one who cheated.


Me: BW, age 66
Him: WH, age 64
Married 19 years
In R.

D-Day: August 14, 2012
9 year LTA with former co-worker and family "friend"/7 years EA+PA, 2 more years EA


Posts: 408 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Connecticut
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Many threads on this website attest to the fact that women lose attraction and respect for their "nice guy" husband,

I've been here for a while now, and I don't recall any threads that were like, "My husband was too nice and therefore I lost respect for him." I've definitely heard that from the BH perspective, but I can't recall reading this from the other side of the fence.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but perhaps I just find it fucking incredible that someone would lose interest in someone that treated them with kindness and respect. That would definitely cause me to hit the "NEXT" button on the post and move on.

I don't think this is a gender thing. Nice people DO get kicked in the teeth, over and over. The doormat metaphor applies when you associate with someone who is so incredibly selfish that they see people for their assets rather than their hearts. Ice Queens and Douche Bags DO carry some kind of mystique - it's like the moth-to-flame reaction we used to get to the popular kids in grade school. "Ooooh, they're so mean and judgmental - if they like ME, then I must be special!"

So, part of it is that the nice guy is likely giving someone the benefit of the doubt who doesn't deserve it, over and over and over.

Altruistic people probably stand a higher likelihood of being on a one-sided cheating situation. The situation is more dire for them - more hurtful, because they could not dream of hurting someone else like that. It almost stands to reason that the not-nice guys who got cheated on didn't find their way here to talk it out because they're cashing in their Revenge Affair tickets and sending their relationship on a much faster course to destruction.

Please forgive the pre-coffee ruminations.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 12:46 PM, August 1st (Friday)]


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17846 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Many threads on this website attest to the fact that women lose attraction and respect for their "nice guy" husband, and while it does not "cause" them to cheat, it is clear that it is a contributing factor, both before the affair, and in the lack of desire to reconcile following the affair.

My WW started cheating on me on day 1. The above generalization is clearly false.

Can it be that the most altruistic men among us will be the ones cheated on? Can it be that the men with the GREATEST virtues among humankind be the ones to whom long TT is dealt?

This attempt at a generalization is also false. Just read various stories on SI and you will see cheating affects all different types of marriages as well as all different types of BS and WS personallities.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
NeverAgain2013
♀ Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With all due respect, I think there's a world of difference between a genuinely nice guy and the effeminate, overly emotional wimpy type of guy. The latter is so very unattractive to me.

I don't think the genuinely nice guy is doomed to be cheated on simply because he's a good guy. But the wimpy one might not fare as well because after a while, I think a woman just wants a man to act like a man.

JMHO.


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Many threads on this website attest to the fact that women lose attraction and respect for their "nice guy" husband, and while it does not "cause" them to cheat, it is clear that it is a contributing factor, both before the affair, and in the lack of desire to reconcile following the affair.

I married the nice guy. Contrary to this "fact" the only thing that ever diminished my attraction or respect was his LTA. We were together 16 years, married over 12, when his affair started.

I think it is easy to blame oneself for the treatment meted out by the WS. I know I do it: was I too understanding, too trusting, too generous? The answer to all of these is probably yes, but the responsibility for taking advantage of these qualities still rests with my H.

(((Tfkeel)))...sounds like you're hurting right now.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1743 | Registered: Nov 2010
Tearsoflove
♀ Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband is a wonderfully thoughtful and nice man. He's the epitome of "Mr. Nice Guy". I've been attracted to him since the day we met and I'm sure I always will be. He's never had a shortage of women coming on to him and one of the OW told me the reason she found herself so attracted to him was that he was nice to everyone, all the time.

I don't think it's helpful to determine that the reason for someone's affair is because the personality of the betrayed spouse is "too nice". People don't cheat because the BS is "too" or "not enough" of anything. They cheat because they are selfish and they came up with some bullshit excuse that allowed them to do it that doesn't involve actually looking inside at what's wrong with them. Becoming a bad boy won't fix a broken wife. It will just make a genuinely nice guy an asshole. In my opinion, you don't want the kind of women that would attract.


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4145 | Registered: Sep 2005
Karmita
♀ Member
Member # 40183
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cheaters cheat because that is their character. Most cheaters would never marry someone they didn't trust. It's like the burgler who has an alarm system in their own home.

It's not surprising that good people get cheated on. Most cheaters are careful with the image and values they project because they do value goodness in a twisted way...except that they feel the rules don't apply to them.

Most cheaters are good with words, but it's their actions that reveal the truth about them.

Looking back...I can clearly see that my ex was all words, but his selfishness was carefully masked. I realized he was never a nice man, only nice when he wanted something.


Posts: 76 | Registered: Aug 2013
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 10:50 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

***posting as a member***

I think there's a world of difference between a genuinely nice guy and the effeminate, overly emotional wimpy type of guy. The latter is so very unattractive to me.

I don't think the genuinely nice guy is doomed to be cheated on simply because he's a good guy. But the wimpy one might not fare as well because after a while, I think a woman just wants a man to act like a man.

I stand corrected about the types of posts we see here.

I know we have cookie cutters for what men and women are supposed to look like and act, but my heart breaks for anyone who feels like they can't be themselves because they will be rejected for not being manly or feminine enough. And with such fervor.

Every time I hear a man heave a sigh and say, "Well, women like assholes so I better toughen up and work on that." I feel like the world has lost some much needed gentleness.

IMHO


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17846 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Sad in AZ
♀ Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 2:00 AM, August 2nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can it be that the most altruistic men among us will be the ones cheated on? Can it be that the men with the GREATEST virtues among humankind be the ones to whom long TT is dealt?

Sure; if you're married to a sociopath.

Let's face it; if you really are a nice person, and you're married to a nice person, this does not happen.

Now, you could be a dick in 'nice person' clothes. All your niceness could be manipulative (read about cover aggressiveness).

Or

Your spouse could have this personality.

You've been hurt by someone who promised to love and honor you; that does not mean that the rest of the world of women are like her. Try not to get caught up in absolutes. Life will even out; it just takes dreaded time.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20289 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
Bobbi_sue
♀ Member
Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 2:16 AM, August 2nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since millions upon millions cheat, it is not that difficult to find large groups in certain categories...such as altruistic "nice guys" that get cheated on by women who seem to want something more exciting, drama filled, or just want to be with a "bad boy." I personally don't think there is any merit to this. Nice guys are likely to get cheated because half if not more than half of all people will likely be cheated, whether they fit the nice guy profile, or whether they do not.

Posts: 5760 | Registered: Apr 2006
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 2:58 AM, August 2nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cheaters cheat because that is their character. Most cheaters would never marry someone they didn't trust. It's like the burgler who has an alarm system in their own home.

I disagree.
Speaking as a WS, I didn't trust my husband because I didn't trust anyone because I didn't trust myself.
Speaking as a BS, I don't subscribe to the 'good person' vs 'bad person' theory. I wasn't picked out by my husband as a 'good girl' who would be easy to cheat on. We are all various shades of grey, BS' included.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1253 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 3:01 AM, August 2nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Could be that the bh niceness was a way for the ww to know she could get away with it, if he were the calm forgiving kind. I know my wh would freak the f**k out if I ever cheated.
I think that if a ww said their husband was too nice prob has some issues that were present way before he was in the picture. Some ppl like drama and maybe too nice means the bh didn't go beat the shit out of the om and drag the wife home...ridiculous but I guess some people like the idea of two people fighting over them.
This goes for both genders. When I was young dumb and first dating my ws, I got word that he cheated on me...yea should have known better than to marry him but anyhoo, I fought the girl. I can't fight and basically she kicked my ass good but I swear he liked that I did that. My dad told me that night, if you have to fight for a guy, he isn't worth a shit...didn't listen obviously. Ws knew I was nice and forgiving, he knew.I wouldn't break up with him. I stupidly blamed the girl

[This message edited by Ostrich80 at 3:09 AM, August 2nd (Saturday)]


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5134 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, August 2nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I stand corrected about the types of posts we see here.

I know we have cookie cutters for what men and women are supposed to look like and act, but my heart breaks for anyone who feels like they can't be themselves because they will be rejected for not being manly or feminine enough. And with such fervor.

Every time I hear a man heave a sigh and say, "Well, women like assholes so I better toughen up and work on that." I feel like the world has lost some much needed gentleness.

IMHO

Annnnnnd....boom goes the dynamite.

I totally agree. You see the attitude repeated lots of places...hell, even in NJF you see the idea that one of the first things the BS needs to do is to establish boundaries so that the WS regains respect for them. (Parapharasing, of course) Why? Why can't the impetus for respecting your spouse (or anyone else) come from the simple fact that you should respect people, regardless of self-esteem or perceived femininity/masculinity or lack of boundaries?

I've never bought into the idea because it's another way of blaming someone's shitty actions on the recipient of said shitty actions.

Just because someone makes him- or herself a doormat does not mean that you're obligated to step on them, nah mean?

[This message edited by Ascendant at 10:32 AM, August 2nd (Saturday)]


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2173 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
Topic Posts: 20

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