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Newest Member: hewaseverything (44947)

Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Remorse
StartingFreshNow
♀ Member
Member # 44224
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is more an "out there" question than one with a point.

What is remorse? On a post the other day someone told me remorse is an action, not a feeling (at least that's how I interpreted it). Well I disagree. I think, like love, it is both an action and a feeling.

I think I am remorseful in my head, but I suck at being remorseful in action. My BH agrees (we discussed this very topic last night). I don't know why I am so horrible at showing remorse, and I plan to work on it in IC, but I was just wondering. What is remorse to you?


Me: WW
2 young kids
DDay - Dec 2013 (EA), TT
DDay 2 - Jul 28, 2014 (PA), TT
DDay 3 - end of Aug/beg of Sep 2014
(All the same A)

Posts: 284 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: USA
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

remorse is about them, regret is about you

if you feel bad for what you did to them is it really: you feel bad for how they look at you for what you did to them?

remorse is how it affects them, not how it affects you. it is not I am ashamed of my actions, although this is important. It is more, I feel your pain from my actions.

When I was early on. I thought I had remorse. And then one day it hit me. I broke out in tears for my BS pain. I entered HER HELL. That was a remorseful moment.


Moving from Jekyll the destroyer to Jekyll the rebuilder.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I do not PM with women


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
tangledknot
♀ Member
Member # 43927
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've decided I'm not going to worry about. This is a process and a journey. I was beating myself up for not being truly remorseful, but I'm not a monster and I do have compassion for my husband and I am showing it. That's all I have to give right now. Whether that's regret or remorse seems unimportant right now.

Posts: 161 | Registered: Jun 2014
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

well put. Remorse is definitely a process. For me a goal. the chances of having remorse at dday +4 days when you don't have your "Whys" yet. Aren't being completely honest and transparent. And waffling between D and R. Personally you have more to worry about than whether you have remorse or not. JMHO


Moving from Jekyll the destroyer to Jekyll the rebuilder.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I do not PM with women


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
StartingFreshNow
♀ Member
Member # 44224
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I appreciate your opinion. I'm not focused on this question, it just came up last night when talking with my BH and I thought I'd pose the question on here just for "fun". A break from the other issues I'm facing.


Me: WW
2 young kids
DDay - Dec 2013 (EA), TT
DDay 2 - Jul 28, 2014 (PA), TT
DDay 3 - end of Aug/beg of Sep 2014
(All the same A)

Posts: 284 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: USA
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SFN...
it is both an action and a feeling.

I agree... and IMO here's the "problem"

I think I am remorseful in my head, but I suck at being remorseful in action.

If you can't/won't put the remorse you feel into "action" how can your BS see it, feel it, believe it?

My WH struggles with putting his remorse into action and it has caused an immense issue for us (and quite a good deal of pain for me) He assures me he does feel remorse... but cannot show it... not in ways I can see it, feel it, believe it. So I am left with taking his word that he is remorseful (and that ain't working so well for me)

IMO putting your remorse into actions take a huge dose of humility... and from my experience humility isn't high on the list traits of many WSes... not mine anyway.

DrJekyll said...

Remorse is definitely a process

I agree... it is something the WS has to learn, how to be humble and not feel they are being... a "doormat" IYKWIM


Me 54
WH 54
Met 1978
Married 1981
DDay 2009
Latest TT... Nov 2013 (yep, 2013... not a typo!)


One man’s “fruitless conflict” is another man’s “meaningful discussion”


Posts: 476 | Registered: Mar 2011
tangledknot
♀ Member
Member # 43927
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that is true, that a WS has to learn to be humble without feeling like a doormat.

Humility is probably the number 1 ingredient to remorse. I am just not there. It seems that a WS really has to give up his/her own will.

This is hard!


Posts: 161 | Registered: Jun 2014
Want To Wake Up
♀ Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It seems that a WS really has to give up his/her own will.

tangledknot... I think a WS who looks at it this way would struggle immensely.

IMO a WS who has been given the chance to R (presuming R is what they want) can look upon this as a gift they give their BS... a change in mindset if you will. Not a 'giving up' of their own will but a shift in their priorities.

Without wanting to offend... I think most would agree that having an A is a selfish action, displaying humility is IMO a selfless action.

This is hard!

Never truer words were spoken!

[This message edited by Want To Wake Up at 4:09 PM, August 1st (Friday)]


Me 54
WH 54
Met 1978
Married 1981
DDay 2009
Latest TT... Nov 2013 (yep, 2013... not a typo!)


One man’s “fruitless conflict” is another man’s “meaningful discussion”


Posts: 476 | Registered: Mar 2011
Lark
♀ Member
Member # 43773
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agree on the it being a process. And I think it is both emotion and action. it's empathy and acting on that. Not just saying sorry but understanding the trigers, comforting. In a way it's being that healing best friend in their time of need, all for them, what they need, recognizing it is not short-term.. but also recognizing you're the one who put them there and remorseful for that.

I think it's a long time coming. My husband has apologized from the moment I found out. He has acted on and done every single thing I asked of him. I don't think he was ever in the "fog" that many have spoken of - or if he was, it was over long before I found out. he said he just feels relieved to be done with it and start fixing himself rather than knowing he's broken and indulging it. (he had several confessions to close friends during the A hoping the confession, or the friend, would be able to stop him... this gives me comfort for some reason, as though he knew all along how broken he was and wanted out)

But even so, nearly 2 months out, he still has moments where it's like it suddenly hits him what he's done, how much it hurts me. If anything, it seems to be getting so much worse as he realizes the magnitude.


"Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul." - William Ernest Henley

Posts: 525 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: California
Lark
♀ Member
Member # 43773
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It seems that a WS really has to give up his/her own will.

I'm not sure... I think it's more has to fully experience empathy, and that means opening yourself to a world of pain so much that you gasp for breath. And ideally, if both want R, the "will" of both will lock side-step into each other through that empathy.


"Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul." - William Ernest Henley

Posts: 525 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: California
hopefull77
♀ Member
Member # 43221
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think NO ONE can begin to know how painful this is until the AFFAIR is exposed to the light of day...
for BS who thought it would be a deal breaker and then realize maybe its not...to the wayward who thought their spouse would never find out to the AP who gets left behind.....
I think fear of the unknown kicks in pretty quick....like what now???
With hard work and lots of self analyzing a WS can find and show remorse....no matter the outcome of the M.
I know my WH felt relief on dday....so remorse followed
fairly quickly....
everyone in the triangle needs to work on self worth....and compassion....oh yea and patience helps too!


me-BS
him-WS
3 adult children 1D 2S
married-1977
LTA 09-2010 - 11-2012
D-day - 11-11-2012
status - reconciling and very hopeful
"Let Go of Control; Let God's Life Flow" ...Richard Rohr



Posts: 516 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: sunny california
WalkinOnEggshelz
♀ Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I am remorseful in my head, but I suck at being remorseful in action.

It's because I think you regret what you have done, but like Lark said, lack the empathy to truly demonstrate remorse. It's true that remorse is a process. Mine came in bits and pieces. But when it did, my BH had no question it was there. He could see and feel it, because I was feeling his pain and understanding it.

I seriously doubt that you are truly feeling remorse at this stage. Your BH has just had the rug pulled out from underneath him a second time due to your withholding vital information. Not more than 48 hours you have swung from wanting your M to being relieved and "excited" at the prospects of being single again.

It seems that a WS really has to give up his/her own will.

SFN, I know that this isn't your quote but I want to use it to make the point that you do not need to stay M to have remorse. You can D and have humility and compassion and yes, even remorse for your actions. Having remorse has absolutely nothing to do with giving up your will. You make choices in your life. Many times those choices have consequences. I feel personally feel I would have given up much more of myself had I left BH and not worked on my issues. It's because I wanted to R that I put the work in to make myself a better person. I chose to stay in my M. I chose to work with my BH to R and heal together. At anytime I have had (and still do) the choice to leave or tell him "no" when he makes requests. I have never given up my will. I have no regrets. Does it suck sometimes? Sure. But I made that choice when I invited another man into my M.

You know who has had to give up a lot? My BH. And yours will to. He has had to swallow the biggest shit sandwich you can imagine. He is the one who has felt like a doormat at times and he is the one that has had to give up some pride. He has had to question himself because everything in his bones had told him to run and yet he stayed. And anyone that hasn't been through this themselves would have told him to run too. So, "giving up" a little freedom or biting my tongue long enough to actually see what his perspective is hardly amend like a fair trade, IMO.

I will add as well, the fact that you are "not focused on this question" and that you are posing the question on here "just for fun" just reiterates that you have a ways to go before you truly feel remorse.


Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 683 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
tangledknot
♀ Member
Member # 43927
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know why I feel so resistant to "remorse." I feel like a snarley teenager as I read this thread.

It's not that I don't see my BHs pain or the destruction I caused. I see it. It's so awful I can barely function. But, still having a hard time keeping the defenses and prickles down.


Posts: 161 | Registered: Jun 2014
Trying2LoveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 43024
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe that remorse, just like forgiveness, IS a process. I also believe it is both a feeling and actions. Because I didn't know about my FWH A for 25 YEARS, he had quite a long time to work on the Remorse in his mind. No, he didn't see my pain until Dday 11 months ago, yet he still worked on becoming a very humble man, a MUCH better husband & father, etc. So I think that being remorseful can begin even BEFORE Dday. He just became MORE remorseful after Dday.

For me as the BS, forgiveness was much the same way. Not long after Dday, I told him I had forgiven him. A couple of months later I realized I had not! And I had to be honest & tell him so. He said that as much as he'd wished I had, he completely understood & would understand if I never forgave him, but that he would live with it if I could find it in me to be even "content" to live with him. For me, that ties in with Remorse. He has learned to be humble & will be greatful for whatever level of R I can live with. Does that make sense?

Sometimes I'm not so great at putting my thoughts/feelings into words! That's when I wish you all could read my mind!😲 Heck....I don't even know what all these little smileys are "saying".. :duh


Me:BS
Him:FWH
2 DS:35 & 30 , 2 D Grandchildren
"Oh the webs we weave, when first we practice to deceive"....My WH quotes this often.
I found out about H's affair 25 yrs later.Mine is my own "Life is a journey, travel with Care."

Posts: 216 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: New Mexico
Trying2LoveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 43024
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

See...even the little duh smiley face didn't work! It just has the word "duh"! Help!


Me:BS
Him:FWH
2 DS:35 & 30 , 2 D Grandchildren
"Oh the webs we weave, when first we practice to deceive"....My WH quotes this often.
I found out about H's affair 25 yrs later.Mine is my own "Life is a journey, travel with Care."

Posts: 216 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: New Mexico
Trying2LoveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 43024
Default  Posted: 11:51 PM, August 1st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

See...even the little duh smiley face didn't work! It just has the word "duh"! Help!


Me:BS
Him:FWH
2 DS:35 & 30 , 2 D Grandchildren
"Oh the webs we weave, when first we practice to deceive"....My WH quotes this often.
I found out about H's affair 25 yrs later.Mine is my own "Life is a journey, travel with Care."

Posts: 216 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: New Mexico
lovemywife4ever
♂ Member
Member # 42834
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, August 2nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Remorse to me is a huge feeling plus actions. My one indiscretion was 2.5 years ago. I got married one year ago TODAY! Yes I was living with my wife at the time I cheated. I felt immediate regret and remorse. I hated myself. My decisions were going to hurt the person I loved the most. I worked harder to provide better, tried to show her my love, and be the best person following that and proposed and married her. My wedding day was the best day; I remember the feelings of love and looked into her eyes and meant EVERY word of my vows. I still do. She didn't know until Dec. 1 of what I had done. Now I work harder yet. I had felt remorse, and shown it, but she doesn't see it that way because I never confessed. My point is true remorse would have fessed up and not kept it hidden to protect her and myself. I thought I was protecting her from pain, but the pain was caused whether she knew it or not. I really protected my own ass to keep her. Be remorseful in every way.


Me-WS
Her-BS (deena04)
Upper 30s and kids at home (hers/mine/ours)
Cheater-me 2.5 years into relationship, 2 months before engagement, 1.5 year before M

Posts: 143 | Registered: Mar 2014
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SFN- this is just my perception and feel free to disregard, but you seem to be very focused on the "power," dynamic in your M. Any time you feel you have lost the advantage, you do things to gain it back or even the perception that you have it back. You probably do this without even realizing it, which is why I am pointing it out. Why is that important to you ?

Your H wants to D, you will do anything to save it. He decides he may want to try R, you have feelings leaving your M or temptation to break NC.


You have remorse in your head, but can't put it into actions.

Let me rephrase it another way, closer to how he sees it:

You see your husband in terrible pain, but you can't make yourself do the one thing that might makes him feel a little better.

FWIW most newly minted BHs have trouble keep their head on straight much less what comes out of their mouths. What he says today could easily be the exact opposite tomorrow/next week. He is confused and by any measure he should be. His life as he knew just changed without him having a say in it.

It will take him time to regain his "center." I would hold off on having any deep conversations there is too much pain, fear and trying to mitigate those that are floating around right now to have any salient conversations.

There is such a thing as paralyzing shame. It stops you from doing what you "want" to do. Are you so ashamed you feel it better to knock your H down a peg that to learn to sit with your feelings ?

This goes much deeper than that and you are starting to see your defensiveness as not rational given the circumstances. The only way you are going to get to root of that is to travel a painful road. For some people remorse doesn't come naturally. It took months for my W to get there even though she was very sad, heart broken and cried to the point she vomited on more than once occasion.

I don't need an answer just trying to give you things to think about or even better explore with an IC.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2554 | Registered: May 2010
ExWayward
♂ New Member
Member # 44295
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, August 4th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SFN you are still in the affair fog and still coming off the high you had with your OM. This is why it is important for you to cut all ties with the OM. In your other thread you all but said that if the OM we're not hundreds of miles away,you would most likely be with him right now. That is very telling of where you are mentally.

You agreed to try R because basically the OM bailed. You would have most likely continued on with the affair if he had not done so. So that's where you are now. As long as the OM is renting space in your mind and heart, you cannot feel remorse for the pain you caused hubby. You cannot truly love your husband while the OM is still a ghost in your attic.

[This message edited by ExWayward at 12:21 PM, August 4th (Monday)]


Me: exWH/madhatter
Married to exWW 7/10/84
Her first DD: 12/24/87
My revenge affairs DD: 3/15/88 through 12/07/89
Divorced 11/14/90

Ex WW cheated on me. I retaliated by becoming a cheating monster with numerous women.


Posts: 22 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Arizona
Topic Posts: 19

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