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We did something so stupid!

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Lark posted 8/6/2014 17:15 PM

Sorry - rereading my response, I realize I came across as very harsh, and I did not mean to do so. sorry!

sarahstar posted 8/6/2014 17:51 PM

Lark, what you said made complete sense and wasn't harsh at all. I appreciated your honesty and bluntness. Everything you said is exactly what I have been thinking myself. He said he is trying and is slowly learning to control himself which he did the other night. It's so sad that he has to learn to control himself.... it should come naturally. One of my biggest disappointments was when he came into my work, gave me flowers the other day and apologised profusely saying all he wanted was me. Then not long after, sent her a message telling her what he would be wearing for their accidental meeting. It really hurt even though he didn't go. It was arranged after he saw me.

The last couple of days I have felt so so numb. He cuddles me and instead of feeling safe and secure and really loved... now I feel numb... I'm worried that he went to far this time and has lost me even though that's not what I want. I know I love him and don't want to break up. Is this the normal process? or is it because I have lost him and I am sensing his distance in the cuddles?? I haven't felt any anger during any of this only disappointment and hurt. I want us to get through this and I'm hoping he does too.

Ultramarine posted 8/6/2014 18:46 PM

Sarahstar, I don't have advice for you but your post reminded me of an episode early in my own marriage when WH, pre-PA, made me feel really bad about our sex life and insecure and asked me about having a threesome. We talked about it at length and I did not commit to it but neither did I say no. At some point, we created a CG ad looking for a girl.

I know that I was very unhappy then, desperate, and confused. I, too, have a habit of turning serious matters into a joke. It's my coping mechanism, but it really didn't serve me very well in my marriage. If you laugh about it, how can he realize that it actually hurts you?

I realize now that WH and I had very different assumptions about what it meant to be married to someone. To me, it meant exclusivity and loyalty. To him, not so much. Me agreeing to play with the idea of another woman n our bed or being "open-minded" when he flirted with women left right and center probably contributed to him having a PA several months down the road and countless EAs.

Another thing - the fact that your H is being cuddly and lovey to you right now would make me worry quite a lot. Mine would be extra happy and nice to me when things were going well with his other girls.

[This message edited by Ultramarine at 6:47 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

blindsided81 posted 8/6/2014 19:31 PM

I am so sorry to see you here. I know you want your spouse to love you and only you, but you can't make him do that.

I am learning as I go through this and I know you can't "nice" him back, you can't join in the "fun" to get him back. You can't control anything he does.

Read the 180. Decide what you want. And settle for nothing less. You are worth it.

sarahstar posted 8/6/2014 23:54 PM

Ultramarine, he knows I am using sarcastic jokes as a coping mechanism so he does realise the hurt I feel which is good. I understand what you mean with the cuddles although I think its more to help make me feel secure and also to comfort him as well I think. He knows this time is different and I won't be accepting any more excuses.

thankyou Blindsided, I will have a look

[This message edited by sarahstar at 11:54 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

Pass posted 8/7/2014 09:44 AM

Just when she was so gorgeous, she sent naked photos and a photo of her face he couldn't resist. Honestly, if I was a man and a woman as gorgeous as her "was throwing herself at me" sending sexy messages etc... it was the ultimate temptation.

You need to stop making excuses for him. Men are just as capable of resisting temptation as women are. There are many men on this site who have had opportunities to cheat with "gorgeous women" and have chosen not to.

He is your husband: Resisting temptation is a requirement.

NeverAgain2013 posted 8/7/2014 10:33 AM

LOL..."gorgeous" woman. Truly gorgeous women don't need to troll the internet looking for men. And certainly not lame married ones, at that.

Your husband thought he was talking to Bo Derek but the chances are pretty high that he would have ended up meeting Bo DIDDLEY.

brokenblackbird posted 8/7/2014 11:12 AM

He knows this time is different and I won't be accepting any more excuses.

How does he know this? Is it because you and he chatted with a woman, he took it too far and you said, "That hurt me, don't do it again please."?

Because, honey, he didn't learn any lesson here. Boundaries were broken down and he got exactly what he wanted without any consequences. This is a pattern that will play on REPEAT until you stand up for yourself and lay down what it is you want out of this relationship. He is a cheater. Are you willing to live with that? He likes to chat with women online and arrange to meet up with them. Is that ok with you?

Do you have access to his cell phone and cell phone records? Those need to be checked. I don't think he dropped this latest woman. There are probably plans to lay low until you calm down a little, he'll do that with promises of being different this time, and then he'll start back up with the woman you two messaged.

sarahstar posted 8/8/2014 17:49 PM

That is true Pass...
I do have access to his phone and emails and his phone.
My fear at the moment is that last night we were having a chat and I was trying to work out why he thought he could do these betrayals. Did he subconsciously want to hurt me? About 6years ago, there was a man texting me wanting to go out with me. He knew I was married, I never flirted with him whatsoever. I kept knocking him back over about 6weeks. He kept texting and I said no each time but we also sometimes chatted about general life. I deleted the messages as I got them and as I sent them. There was nothing sexual in the texts. I had kept saying to him that I am married and wouldn't go on a date with him anyway I ended saying to never text me again and I told my husband. He was furious. Even though his phone sex stuff was going on at this same time and the previous 13 yrs he felt I had betrayed him and didnt trust that I wasn't having an affair.
Anyway, back to our conversation last night when I asked him why he did this crap and the fact he had done 3 betrayals in the last year 'that I know of' he got very defensive and upset that I think there is more. The fact he got defensive makes me think that now as that was the reaction I got from him each time he got caught out. What do I do now? Is there hope? I feel numb. He tried cuddling me this morning and I felt nothing but sadness like he's lost me now.

tushnurse posted 8/8/2014 18:46 PM

There's no hope for a successful R and healthy M unless you draw some serious boundaries and give him real and lasting consequences.
Your gut is screaming at you. Yet you are hopeful.
Get your shit together, get organized. See an attorney. Figure out your absolutes and be ready to leave when you approach him with one final opportunity to come clean. Be 100% ready to serve him and throw him out. Until he knows you are no longer a doormat he will treat you like one.

sudra posted 8/9/2014 06:07 AM

Why do you keep talking about him "going too far?"

Any sexual or intimate talk, chat, email, text, etc. to another woman is "too far."

And why would you be laughing about all of this with him? He surely thinks you don't care all that much when you laugh one minute and then tell him you're hurting the next.

Quit allowing this. You cannot control his behavior but you do not have to laugh about it or make excuses about it. And you don't have to stay married with someone who is so disrespectful to you.

If a really handsome man came on to you, would you be unable to keep from having sex with him? I'm guessing you could. You should expect the same from your husband. And he's not just having women come on to him - he's soliciting the attention.

Stop enabling his cheating. Figure out your boundaries (which I hope move drastically from where they have been), draw your line in the sand and let him know. And mean it!

Edited to add - I just read some of your previous posts. You posted on another thread that you didn't know if you could handle a second Dday. Gently, it sounds as if you have had numerous Ddays. You've just rugswept and tried to pretend it was less than it is. Doing what he is doing isn't okay because he's "curious." Likely there is way more than you know. And even if it isn't, your husband has used porn, chat numbers repeatedly and had sex with a prostitute at least once. Each discovery is a Dday.

You need to face what he is.

[This message edited by sudra at 6:17 AM, August 9th (Saturday)]

sarahstar posted 8/10/2014 18:01 PM

Sudra, yes, everything you say is true although he does know that the jokes are my way of coping and I am hurting considerably.
Strangely, I do feel different since he came so close to meeting with this woman. Almost switched off. I love him and always will but I'm wondering if my subconscious is stopping me from getting too close to him again. Is this normal?

[This message edited by sarahstar at 10:05 PM, August 10th (Sunday)]

Ultramarine posted 8/18/2014 17:52 PM

I love him and always will but I'm wondering if my subconscious is stopping me from getting too close to him again. Is this normal?

Here is your answer:

Your gut is screaming at you. Yet you are hopeful.

And on the topic of him knowing that you're seriously hurt because you are making sarcastic jokes - he doesn't. You, on the other hand, are afraid of and are avoiding conflicts. Stop.

sarahstar posted 9/8/2014 00:29 AM

Where do I go from here? Since my husband nearly met this woman, our sex life has quietened down substantially. I think I just felt so wrong to have sex really. After the first 2 days without sex he started getting upset and not in a good way. I was so disappointed as he pretty well reverted back to his old way before he had sex with a prostitute.

Anyway, on Friday, I was feeling really down like something was up so I googled if you can recover deleted messages. You can, so I asked him straight out on Saturday if he has had any contact with her or sent her any messages. He looked me straight in the eye and said no. So I logged onto his email in front of him and told him I had found a way to recover deleted messages. He still denied anything. I recovered the messages and saw he was to meet her on Friday. Obviously that was why I felt so down... my gut was telling me. He was shocked that I recovered them.

She didn't turn up on friday so he had messaged that he would be there today (Monday) and Tuesday. He had nothing to say... no sorry no nothing! All I said was how disappointed I was that he could literally lie to my face. He knows that I had said anymore and that's the end of us yet he still wanted to meet her for morning lunch just so they could see what each other looked like. WTF, of course they would end up having sex. They are both after each other like hot dogs!

Anyway, it was fathers day on Sunday so we acted normal for the children. This morning I sent him a message letting him know that he may as well meet her like the old saying goes...
I know its silly but I feel as though... is it worth going through all this heartbreak and trying to reconcile and him still doing the wrong thing behind my back but the kids have their father at home and I can kind of keep a tab of it? Or do we split and everytime I see him with someone else... I go through hell again anyway and the kids don't have their father at home.
It is such a vicious cycle.

I did also say in the message that instead of him spending all this time looking at her emails and wondering what she looks like and looking at her pictures that he should be spending the time concentrating on us and trying to get my trust back and making me feel safe and secure again.
He didn't go to meet her today, but came into my work instead. Nice thought but he had also sent her a message that he couldn't meet her and the messaging had to stop. OMG he is still thinking of her feelings. I told him weeks ago not to message her... she is just someone on the internet that he doesn't know... I am his wife and partner for 27years! He truly doesn't get it. I just feel like there are constant lies. All I want is him to just tell the truth. Why lie? If you have to lie or delete stuff, obviously it is wrong. It makes me doubt everything now. For all I know the couple of sexual encounters not including the internet affair are not the only ones that have occurred.

I feel so undecided about the future. I am so devastated, yet I can't cry. I can't even get angry. I told him earlier that I haven't made up my mind if I can stay together anymore.
He is saying that it won't happen again and that he means it. That is what he says everytime! How do I know that he means it.. How do I know that he won't do it again? I truly don't know if all of this is worth it anymore. How many chances can a wayward spouse get? I haven't worn my wedding rings for months and he is cracking saying its like we aren't married. Hellooo, I am not wearing my rings but it was you who acted like we aren't married by having sex with a prostitute, a happy ending massage and an internet affair!
Sorry, a long message that probably doesn't make much sense. My mind is going a million miles an hour.

gonnabe2016 posted 9/8/2014 01:34 AM

All I said was how disappointed I was that he could literally lie to my face. He knows that I had said anymore and that's the end of us
If you are going to give an ultimatum, then you need to follow through. You just make it that much harder for yourself when you don't. You told your WH that "anymore and that's the end of us"...and yet he continued on with no consequence.

He is saying that it won't happen again and that he means it
.....and he has *what* to back up his statement? What has he done in a proactive manner?
Has he started reading any books? Been to some IC sessions because he realizes that lusting after some anonymous internet person to the point of ruining his marriage points to some really fucked up shit in his head? Offered you total transparency and is willing to be totally accountable to you?
SS, it sure seems as if you are carrying the load of R right now. Drop the yoke. The burden is on him.

lovesobroken posted 9/8/2014 01:44 AM

(()) sarahstar, I think the answer to all your questions are in the previous responses :( its the same shit different day as far as your WHs actions are concerned. :( I woukdnt stay forvhe sake of children, he doesn't seem the best example or a strong parent...

[This message edited by lovesobroken at 1:46 AM, September 8th (Monday)]

tushnurse posted 9/8/2014 08:00 AM

Sarah - Honey, you need to stop giving him chances, and stop listening to his words, and start listening to his actions.

He has NO, ZERO, NADA, intention of making this right, or even stopping. Because you are right he gets to do what he wants, and have the M.
Until you give him some serious, and impactful consequences he won't even begin to attempt to change.

I would go nuclear at this point, for your own sanity. Seriously. It's time. Continuing to allow him to stay, will weaken, and destroy you.

You deserve much more, but until you demand it, you will never get it. Quit being the doormat, and start being the guard, to your heart and well being.

(((and strength)))

Lark posted 9/8/2014 11:11 AM

is it worth going through all this heartbreak and trying to reconcile and him still doing the wrong thing behind my back but the kids have their father at home and I can kind of keep a tab of it? Or do we split and everytime I see him with someone else... I go through hell again anyway and the kids don't have their father at home.

Hugs, I am very sorry. You cannot reconcile with someone who is still doing this stuff. You can't reconcile with someone who doesn't want to reconcile.

As for your children - is this the role model you want for them? To be living with a "family" where the father runs around with prostitutes and meets up with people and treats their mother that way? I know the thought is that they will never find out, but they will. And even if they don't know the details they will know he disrespects you, you are unhappy. Their family life still suffers. It is better to be FROM a broken home than to be IN one.

And making him have actual consequences for his actions - what will come of that? strength for you. Strength in knowing you do not have ot put up with everything he throws at you. Strength in knowing that YOU can do this on your own, you do not need him, and your children will see a *healthy* mother who says and *lives* that people need to treat each other with respect. It will hurt, you will be in pain, you will be devastated seeing him with other women if he continues down that path. But you will also build strength and that hurt will go away because you will see who he is and know that you deserve better.

And if you leaving makes him want to R and actually do the *work* of that? Then you can decide from there. But it'll be on *your* terms, and it will be *your* choice. Not you waiting around for him to choose.

LumpyLola posted 9/8/2014 11:49 AM

I'm sorry you had a negative thing like this happen while trying to recover from your pain.

Sounds like a case of sex addiction. Revisiting the "scene of the crime", aka the sex sites, with your H was really not such a good idea. Just because you two went there together doesn't make it right. In fact, it's almost like the wife giving the husband the green light to continue his shenanigans.

It's like an alcoholic swearing off alcohol, only to have his wife offer to accompany him to the bar. The same temptation will still be there - one that he's shown an inability to control in the past - so why should the presence of the wife make the pull feel any different?

I've been reading here and elsewhere that NC has to be 100%. In this case, it's NC with the sex sites, etc.

[This message edited by LumpyLola at 11:51 AM, September 8th (Monday)]

Lark posted 9/9/2014 11:43 AM

I just wanted to add so that it's clear - your husband has made these choices. He would have made these choices even if you had not been looking at the site with him, it was only a matter of time. It is not your fault at all and not something you can control now or in the future. If you'd done "everything right," he'd still have likely wound up at a site and tried to meet up with women. It's his choice.

sarahstar posted 10/15/2014 18:53 PM

thankyou for replying...
There has been some updates that I couldn't put on here before now and I did get some advice privately at the time from some SI members.
I unwittingly set up a HONEY TRAP. Well it started out as a joke but WH choices made it become a HONEY TRAP.

So when we set up these silly profiles on Ashley Madison, unbeknowns to my WH, I made up another female profile to have a bit of fun with him as a joke for a couple of days as he had once said to me that one day we should get dressed up and go into town separately and pick each other up. So I thought I would do this profile, have a laugh for a couple of days and tell him about it. Well, he deleted the messages again and when I found the deleted messages, I told him any more contact with her (me actually in secret) and we would be over. Well he arranged 2 more meetings and she obviously didn’t show. Because he knew I checked the emails and told him to stop messaging, he started up another email. I knew because he was really emailing me…. The old honey trap. The stuff he said to her was heartbreaking but he never once bad mouthed me. I did push him for sex to see if he would but he didn’t but I do think he eventually would have…. As he kept wanting to meet her and ring from a public phone.
Anyway, after he decided to be “faithful”, he came home and he honestly looked relieved and happy.

But then I told him I knew who she was and that she was his f##kin wife. He was absolutely in shock and was incredibly angry. He wouldn’t talk to me at all. Since then he hasn’t wanted to talk about it and has acted like it never happened.
I expected that he would have been sorry and tried to make it up to me but I have seen no remorse whatsoever.

Two nights ago, I said to him, Do you think we should call it quits? He got so defensive and annoyed at me for mentioning it and said he can’t believe I pushed and pushed to set him up like I did. I tried to explain that it wasn’t the plan to do that. It was to be a bit of fun for a couple of days until he made the choice to delete the messages and start up another email account. He can’t understand that. I also said that regardless of the fact of who she actually was, he didn’t know and did the wrong thing. He wrote erotic stories to her of what he wanted to do with her and told her that there was nothing more that he wanted than to be inside her and hold her in his arms! It broke my heart when we have been together for almost 30 years and he has never met her.

I told him he hasn’t even tried to be affectionate or loving or tried to win me back and said we are over after he walked out whilst we were talking. He said fine but later came back to me and wanted to cuddle. The next morning he didn't mention what happened but showed some affection. He said that he will do whatever I want him to do. That isn’t the point, I want him to be faithful and to show he wants only me but I want him to WANT that… I don’t want him to be forced to do it.
How do I make him understand he did the wrong thing instead of him being angry about being “set up”? He made the choice to cheat and lie, if he remained faithful and honest, nothing would have continued and we would have had a laugh. I don’t know what I should be doing.

The stupid thing is that we actually have a happy marriage and there is no reason for him to betray. It annoys me when friends say what a wonderful couple we are and how we have the perfect life. I truly don’t understand why. When he started to delete the emails to meet her, we were having sex all the time. We were talking so much and really enjoying each others company again. So to me it made no difference if we were arguing or happy and he betrays. He cannot tell me why and says each time that it won’t happen again. I’ve had some SI members tell me he is a sex addict but I would thing he would have to look at sex stuff all the time??? There does seem to be a progression from phone sex to massage to casual sex sites to prostitute to internet affair??? I was going to get him to do an online sex addict questionnaire to see after another SI member suggested it to me but I'm scared of his reaction when I ask him to do it.

Do I try and forget what has happened and try to reconcile or are we doomed to end anyway? Do I wait until the children are about to leave for university so their lives are not disrupted. But that is 5 years away…. Can I last that long? I just feel I have put in the effort with no results and want him to want me back.
I love him. I know he loves me but I do wonder if he cares enough for me? He is annoyed that I no longer wear my wedding rings but it feels wrong to wear them now.

Last night I did receive flowers and he was very loving so maybe my show of anger (the first time since finding out about the prostitute in june2014) jolted him the other night. I don't know.

BW me 44
WH him 45
Married over 25 years
together nearly 30 years

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