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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: A Big Fight Yesteday (I'm still in a daze.)
Sad in AZ
♀ Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did you apologize for leaving the chapstick in your pocket? It would piss me off to have to re-do the laundry, especially if I'm under stress at work (which I am now, so I'm speaking from that position.) If you were flippent about it (i.e., it was not a big deal to you) I can understand her blowing her gasket. If it happens frequently (or other things like it) I can understand the unloved feeling. Yes, her reaction was way over the top, but you said she was in a pissy mood prior, and this was just fuel to whatever was smouldering underneath.

Also, I know it's very early for you in this whole ordeal, but if you want to reconcile, at some point (sooner rather than later) you're going to have to stop throwing the AP in her face when it's not something directly related to him.

You both have to learn communication techniques that are safe and productive and work for both of you. The time to talk about stuff like this is not when you're angry. Perhaps you could set aside time in a public place where either of you is less likely to explode to talk out problems. Maybe set up a 'bitch & moan' day once a week only when grievances can be aired.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20436 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
Scubachick
♀ Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She will bend to others will, let them walk all over her and respond with passive-aggression. That is true with everyone but me.

Maybe you are her safe place. She knows she can let it all out and you'll still love and accept her. This doesn't make it ok though.


Posts: 787 | Registered: Jul 2013
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It sounds like she can't handle the 'guilt' over the A, and isn't dealing well with being a 'cheater'. To me, it sounds like she's acting out to release her frustration at being seen as 'lesser', even if that's not the reality - she may feel this way.

The 'hit me' thing, to me, sounds like she wants YOU to be the bad guy, if only for a little while. If you hit her, then YOU are guilty, and she doesn't have to feel so bad.

I'd talk to her about her guilt and how she's handling it. How does she feel about herself, her place in the marriage, etc.?

If that isn't getting you any closer to some kind of real resolution, I'd say tell her she needs to get back into IC. Yes, you can say that. You have the right to be safe with your partner. Her lashing out constantly isn't safe for you.

And as far as what you said regarding calling AP? I think most of us have said something similar at one point or another. For me, it was a way to say "I'm not interested in whatever YOUR problem is. Do you NOT realize the amount of pain and turmoil I'm in because of YOU? And now you want to lash out like you're the victim because you are pissed at yourself? I'm not listening - and I'm reminding you why we're here in the first place" all with "Why don't you call AP?"


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is quite relevant. IMO, when your spouse has a lifelong medical condition, that will always play a part in your relationship, and your emotions.

Sorry I'm a little defensive about that one. Evert time I've mentioned her MS on here I get accused of making excuses. I was already on the defense while posting.

1. I am awful, horrible, no good, and so shamed by what I have done, that I don't deserve to be loved.

This is at least art of it. But I don't think it's about being ashamed of the affair. These actions predate the affair. Her feelings of inadequacy are deeply routed. and I think at least in part lead to the affair. The AP is pretty messed up and she once told me "I felt like with him I could be the normal one int he relationship."


2. Why don't you just stop loving me, and leave, so I can escape any real consequence for what I have done.

I'm not sure about this one. I have to think on that some more. My first reaction is "That's not it at all." I think she uses crying for this purpose.

3. This one is more controversial: Why aren't you more vocal, pissed, moody, volatile after what I have done to you? Obviously, you don't really love me. I take it you are fairly conflict avoidant based on your patterns of walking away, not engaging. Maybe she wants a good old fashioned, knock down-drag out, clean fight. And her behavior was likely intended to draw that out in you. I used to bait my FWH all the time, just so I could say mean things to him, then ride my high horse down the low road. People who are hurt do all kinds of crazy shit.

I can see why you might think that I avoid conflict based on what I said but that isn't the case at all. I have no problem with a heated discussion or even an all out fight. What I refuse to engage in is name calling, wild accusation and unproductive, destructive behavior. When the discussion gets to this point I take a break, refuse to continue and come back with things calm down. I always try to revisit what the conflict was and deal with it. There was a time in my life that I was a very different person and what I said to my wife this time would have been one of the nicer things I would have said. I don't want to be that person again and I don't let it get to the point where my temper rules my mouth. (side note: my wife didn't know me back then.)

That being said I think you are hitting on something. I think she wants that kind of fight. Not a clean knock down drag out, but name calling, breaking things. Threatening, and that she gets upset that I don't give her the kind of conflict she's accustom to.

What was extremely helpful for me, and may not be for you, was to assume my marriage as I knew it, was totally over. I mourned the loss of what I thought it was, and realized some of it was a total lie. In order for me begin the rebuilding process, I needed to bury the old marriage and begin again.

I've heard this before here. But to be honest I don't get it at all. For one thing I don't think you can go back in a relationship. Secondly the past did happen you can't just bury it. It does matter today.

****

Several mentioned the potential tie between this and her shame. Keep in mind that this isn't new behavior. It was fairly common pre affair. It really got better after the affair and this is the first time it has happened since the affair.

Did you apologize for leaving the chapstick in your pocket? It would piss me off to have to re-do the laundry, especially if I'm under stress at work (which I am now, so I'm speaking from that position.)

Not at first I didn't I did later. My first response was "Really you are going to call me a child because I left chap stick in my pocket?"

I also then said. That she should just let me do the laundry. This is a long time thing. She insists on doing the laundry. I'd prefer to do it my self. It drives me crazy that she often doesn't finish and there is a pile in the washing machine, a pile in the dry and baskets full of cloths that I don't know if they are clean or dirty. Then I can't find what I want. But she insists that she enjoys laundry and wants to do it.


Maybe you are her safe place. She knows she can let it all out and you'll still love and accept her. This doesn't make it ok though.

I think this is likely the case. In her family love is very conditional. If two people have even a minor disagreement it could be months before they talk again. She also has a hard time understand why my father can kick me out of his house one day, apologize and I'm back over the next day for a family get together.

Also, I know it's very early for you in this whole ordeal, but if you want to reconcile, at some point (sooner rather than later) you're going to have to stop throwing the AP in her face when it's not something directly related to him
.

I will take it a step further. Me saying that was 100% Unacceptable and wrong. I've already apologized several times for that. No matter what she does, I can't let her bait me into that kind of fight. I'm really disappointed in myself. Like I said before what worries me is I wouldn't have done that pre affair. I don't want her affair to turn me into someone I don't want to be.

If that isn't getting you any closer to some kind of real resolution, I'd say tell her she needs to get back into IC. Yes, you can say that. You have the right to be safe with your partner. Her lashing out constantly isn't safe for you.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it. I have never seen forced therapy be helpful.


And as far as what you said regarding calling AP? I think most of us have said something similar at one point or another. For me, it was a way to say "I'm not interested in whatever YOUR problem is. Do you NOT realize the amount of pain and turmoil I'm in because of YOU? And now you want to lash out like you're the victim because you are pissed at yourself? I'm not listening - and I'm reminding you why we're here in the first place" all with "Why don't you call AP?"

I don't think it was that for me. I feel like she put a lot of effort into fostering a relationship with this guy, while I often feel like she just throws me the crumbs. I get what ever is left over at the end of the day, but with him she made time for him. Often while sitting on the couch next to me. Here she was telling me how I don't lover her and that she doesn't even know while she bothers with me. So I guess what I was saying is "If I'm so awful and he's so great why don't you go be with him."

*****

Thank you everyone. My wife has two late nights in a row and I'm feeling really down about all of this. You all really help.


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 539 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
FixYou71
♀ Member
Member # 42654
Default  Posted: 1:09 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not a WS but I read her perceived feelings and actions differently than most. I think she has incredibly low self esteem (I can relate) and when having a bad day and wanting to be comforted/nurtured that low self esteem brings up a very strong fear of not being worthy of the love we need. It is an awful, horrible feeling. Feels very split brained when it's happening. I finally had to go on antidepressants because my self loathing got way out of control, especially after my Hs Infidelity but even before I felt unworthy of being loved. Though I wanted to be intimate and vulnerable it seemed impossible that he could want that of me too, that he could ever desire that kind of connection with ME. Surely some on else would stir more desire for him. It was really bad. Still struggling immensely with this and I can absolutely relate with the cutting. Though I never did it I can recall numerous times that I would feel such pressure in my body from hating myself so much and not being able to control my sadness or self loathing that I literally wanted to be injured. I remember actually telling my H once, several months ago that I had wished someone would break into our house and beat me so I could feel relief. I used to want to bash my head against a brick wall. I couldn't bear the pain inside me. Antidepressants helped with that. I highly suggest to you that she needs to find a new counselor and really focus on her self esteem issues. It is its own hell. Debilitating at times. As hard as it is for you as a BS she probably really needs you to help her see that you really value her. She may not believe it much of the time but if you can tell her specific things that you admire about her it can be helpful for her to hear and maybe be able to believe at least a little bit why you would even want her. Right now she probably really cant see what you even see in her.
There is something that happens in a depressed persons brain that makes it feel like they are the ones seeing things as they truly are and everyone else is living in a filtered reality and not seeing how awful things really are. Unless treated it inly gets worse and there ends up being very little solid logic left. The self loathing will make a depressed person want to self sabotage.
if you dont mind I suggest you watching this with your wife and seeing if any of it feels like it fits her feelings. It is such a good description of what happens in the mind of a depressed person. I too have a physical issue that dominated over 10 years of my life and that greatly impacted my sense of value. Being sick or having a chronic pain condition does an awful lot to a persons mind. So hard to live with.
Anyway, here's the link.


http://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_solomon_depression_the_secret_we_share?utm_medium=on.ted.com-twitter&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=awesm-publisher&awesm=on.ted.com_paEv&utm_campaign=

(If I'm way off base, just ignore what I said. Just another perspective to consider. )
Sorry you're struggling. I hope you both can find an answer and some relief.


BS: 43
H: 49
Dday #1 Oct 2007 (Porn for 2 yrs)
Dday #2 May 2013 (Porn for 5 more yrs))
Dday#3 May 2014 (finally admitted to drunk kissing OW in 1994: the 2nd drunken kiss with another woman during our M)
DD 21 and DS 17
Married 1993

Posts: 471 | Registered: Mar 2014
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, August 7th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Depression is absolutely a big part of what goes on with her. The brain damage caused by MS causes depression in my wife and she's on meds for it. It's a fairly light dose but it helps a lot.

I understand what you are saying. I've dealt with depression myself in the past. Like I said there was a time when I was a real mess.

My wife came home Tuesday night and told me she wanted to go back to her counselor. She called yesterday and had an appointment this morning. I think it's a good move for her.


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 539 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
notanavrageangel
♀ Member
Member # 44154
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, August 7th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To me this sounds a bit like one of the fights that WH and I get into (I actually posted a thread today about a breakthrough we had) I was telling him how i appreciate how he has been so open about his feelings with me, but I feel sometimes he is listening to me but not really HEARING what I am saying. His response was "so I am a failure at listening, go ahead, tell me what else I am doing wrong". My WH has recently discovered that he has deeply low self esteem which is what eventually lead to his A, and we were able to identify that he was projecting his fear of failure onto me, so that he could justify his own feelings. Perhaps she doesn't truly love herself and feels as though she is unworthy of your love so she is projecting that onto you? Also, I made one promise to myself not to throw the A in his face, I think you are right to feel badly about doing that.


Me: BW, 28
Him: WH, 28
DDAY 7/4/14 TT till 7/18/14

"Reconciliation means working together to correct the legacy of past injustice." - Nelson Mandela


Posts: 249 | Registered: Jul 2014
Topic Posts: 27
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