Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Hurtlostempty (45065)

Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: This is insane
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 11:57 PM, August 5th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are 2 years, 8 months into recovery.

My WH is a changed man. I would say that he is a better husband, friend and lover than before the affair.

We are better connected than ever. We enjoy each other and appreciate our time together. We love each other more fully.

There have been many talks and many tears and I'm sure there will be many more, but we are both hopeful that we will continue sharing and growing.

I am lying here next to him while he sleeps. It was a good day.
But, you know, when I begin to feel somewhat content, the enormity of what he did floods over me and I feel that stone in my chest again. I ask myself what I am doing.

He had a relationship with another woman for over half of our marriage. He had many conversations with her. They ate meals together and smiled at each other and laughed. They talked about their days, their families and about each other. They had sex weekly, looked forward to the Christmas party each year when they got to spend the whole night together in an expensive hotel. They even managed to slip away for a few weekends on the guise of a golf trip.

They conspired, they planned and they lied. They pretended to all the other employees that their relationship was only business. And they fooled everyone for a very long time. Even when my kids took their turns working there, she behaved in a motherly kind of way with them. She took them to lunch, invited them to her home, gave them gifts.

And my husband had no problem exposing our kids to her.
He thought she was a nice lady.

They were a couple. Sure, it was a secret relationship and it wasn't what we would call "real" here on SI, but it was real. And it didn't lose its excitement or thrill. I guess after so long some things became a bit routine, but not dull or boring. It endured the test of time. For two fucked up people having an affair, it sounded pretty good.

I love yous were exchanged. He says it meant nothing, but he would tell her that, regularly. She said the she lost her best friend. Her best friend was my husband.

So, how can I even contemplate reconciling with this man beside me, who is doing so much that is right and good - now, but forgot to love me for 15 years?

Will I ever be happy again?
This is insane.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 774 | Registered: Feb 2012
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:58 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You will be happy again. Our happiness lies within ourselves and outside of our relationships, and we kinda need to learn how to find that from scratch.

(((FightingBack)))

[This message edited by Jrazz at 12:58 AM, August 6th (Wednesday)]


If life is just a series of ridiculous attempts to be alive, you're a hero. - J. Winger

Posts: 17538 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 4:48 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Jrazz,

I hope you are right, for all our sakes. I used to feel happiness, even during the time my marriage sucked. Because I was positive and hopeful and optimistic.

I can still summon up the hope and optimism, but I have yet to experience joy. There is a hole inside me where that used to live.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 774 | Registered: Feb 2012
RomanticInnocenc
♀ Member
Member # 43041
Default  Posted: 5:20 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fightingback, wow how your post spoke to me tonight. I cannot fathom the depth of pain you have considering your WH's 15 year long affair, yet I ask myself the same questions. He had relationships with 3 other women, all to varying degrees and the last one was the worst! No sex, yet he still met her, touched her, said I love you and all the things you have at the beginning of a relationship. Whilst I was pregnant with our first born. Yet the last couple of days we have just lounged around the house, napped, played with our son, made love and just been together. He says there is nothing that makes him happier now. And a part of me sings at the idea that I might get the loving husband that he'd promised he'd be, that I knew he could be, present, in the moment, loving and paying attention to the little things. Then the other part of me calls bullshit. He has spent most of the past 10 years taking me for granted and finding ways to escape me, us, and now he says this is his ideal!

I have hope and it's what I cling onto, but I now have this dark voice continually reminding me not to be happy, that it all goes to shit when you think you're happy. And I hate that voice so much, but I guess for me being only 7 months out its self preservation!

Anyway, really just wanted to acknowledge how much your post hit home for me tonight!


Me: BS 31
WH: 29 (theseseatsRtaken)
DS: 6 months old
Together 10 years, married 2.
DD1: 8th of Jan 2014
DD2: 10th of Jan 2014
NC: 8th of Jan
In hopeful R!

Posts: 308 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Australia
overandone
Member
Member # 39162
Default  Posted: 6:20 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pmed you


Me - BW (54)
Him - fWS (61)
kiddies - daughters 22 and 27,son 22,
d-day - April 18 2012
R - but lots of bumps in the long road

Posts: 227 | Registered: May 2013 | From: uk
mchercheur
♀ Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 6:27 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((FightingBack)))

Your post spoke to me as well.

Jrazz,
thanks for your wise words. I will try to keep them in mind.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1393 | Registered: Dec 2012
FixYou71
♀ Member
Member # 42654
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh geez. That's even painful to read about.
Has he, in your opinion, done enough work on himself to be more of a safe bet than an iffy one?


BS: 43
H: 49
Dday #1 Oct 2007 (Porn for 2 yrs)
Dday #2 May 2013 (Porn for 5 more yrs))
Dday#3 May 2014 (finally admitted to drunk kissing OW in 1994: the 2nd drunken kiss with another woman during our M)
DD 21 and DS 17
Married 1993

Posts: 451 | Registered: Mar 2014
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wish I could say yes, but no.

He feels that when the A was discovered, he felt immediate relief, then embarrassment, then disbelief that he had done what he did.

He admits to feeling selfish, entitled and foolish, but lays quite a bit of blame on MOW for tempting and teasing him, then assuring him that no one would find out Roget hurt.

He rationalized what he was doing as a mutual indulgence, using each other for escape and pleasure. He quickly put away any feelings of guilt and never allowed himself to consider me, our family or any consequences. He did compartmentalize, but allowed his two worlds to come very close together on a few occasions. (He brought our children into the workplace and allowed friendships between MOW and them to develop. He saw no danger in MOW socializing with his sister. We all even attended MOW's surprise birthday party and felt no discomfort in accepting her BS's invitation.)

So dual lives that were dangerously close. I never questioned his late hours because I trusted him completely.

He feels there is no way he could ever repeat this now that he has seen the devastation caused by it. Suddenly, he loves me "more than I will ever know" and is totally committed to us. He said that he "always loved me - just forgot for awhile"

And his actions do reflect that, but I am so afraid that all the reasons he gives for the affair and it's duration do not speak to how he was able to do this. If he doesn't discover this and acknowledge it, couldn't it happen again?

He feels he was blind and that now his eyes are open and he is so happy to be real again.

He ignored the fact that he was destroying us slowly for so long.

Doesn't it sound like he could use some help with this?

And yet, for some crazy reason, I believe him - until I tell myself not to.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 774 | Registered: Feb 2012
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And his actions do reflect that

May I ask, and not in a mean way but truly asking, what all has he done to look inside of himself to get to his "whys"? I ask this because we BS's will get the "I am so sorry" or "I now know I love you and will never do it again" or "I never loved them" speeches that make us feel good at the time. We then get them coming home early, helping out around the house, helping with the kids....so THAT makes us feel good. And what happens when we get these things is we back off on REALLY holding their feet to the fire. INSISTING on them going to IC, INSISTING on full transparency and backing these things up. Because we have been treated so badly for so long and we are in shock at first we accept so much less because it SEEMS like so much more.....yet it really isn't what a truly remorseful WS should look like.

They can seem like a better husband, friend and lover but if you got very little or hardly any before the A then getting any kind of attention after the A seems like manna from heaven. But they may not be doing the really hard stuff.

I don't know if this applies to you but it seems to be a pattern many of us do, accept so little just to keep the marriage or family together.

I know you have written you are very happy and this post may have sounded like a bummer to you. Enjoy the happy moments is all I can say. Its so hard every single day to live with someone who knows how to lie and manipulate and compartmentalize yet look you straight in the eyes.


Posts: 5661 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
BtraydWife
♀ Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He duped you for a very long time. He's capable of doing it. That's extremely frightening.

Some say you should expect recovery to take twice as long as the affair lasted. Wow. That's a very long time.

I would expect that these doubts to show up just when things feel great. That's a normal reaction to trauma.

I'm glad things are going well. Your fears and concerns are understandable.


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 1762 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I am so sorry" or "I now know I love you and will never do it again" or "I never loved them" speeches that make us feel good at the time. We then get them coming home early, helping out around the house, helping with the kids....so THAT makes us feel good. And what happens when we get these things is we back off on REALLY holding their feet to the fire. INSISTING on them going to IC, INSISTING on full transparency and backing these things up. Because we have been treated so badly for so long and we are in shock at first we accept so much less because it SEEMS like so much more....

This is exactly how it is.

We did MC with three different counsellors. He did IC briefly but seemed to be a waste of time and money. He has been introspective when I push him. He answers all my questions as well as his memory serves. He doesn't have a clear recollection of his "feelings".

I have suggested, pleaded and asked him to post here on the wayward forum. He posted once and never went back. He has done some reading (4 books and articles and threads I send him).

I need to know how to convince him that he needs to dedicate himself to this.

And by the way, I am not happy.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 774 | Registered: Feb 2012
BtraydWife
♀ Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh I misunderstood. I thought things were better than your last posted presented. Him not committing to IC is a huge problem.


How you convince him is by being prepared to follow through with some tough consequences.

Tell him you are done with this wishy washy stuff and if isn't going to give you everything you need then you'd rather be alone. And he has to find his own place. You have to mean it.

My WH spent 3 years playing along but not really committing to my requirements for R. He didn't step up until I was ready to kick him out.

Why should he make any additional effort? He's gotten to stay right where he is without doing it.

If you aren't ready to enforce serious consequences then work towards getting yourself ready.


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 1762 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are better connected than ever. We enjoy each other and appreciate our time together. We love each other more fully.

Sorry, I was going by what you wrote above.

Honestly I don't know how I do it everyday, I don't know how others do it everyday. As far as I know (and I really mean that cuz I won't really ever know) is my H cheated once, that I know of, that lasted for almost a year and had us separated for another 6 mos. I don't know how I could lie next to someone, like you are doing, knowing that he led a whole other separate life for half of your marriage which was 15 years, who intertwined the two on many occasions, yet he won't do any of the hard work that is needed for you to even feel remotely safe.

And then there is the added bonus we BS's get of then hating ourselves for staying, going against what our gut and head are telling us...thats a whole other mountain to climb all on its own.

I would ask have you at least sought out IC for you and you alone? I think it might help tremendously with battling your own inner demons.


Posts: 5661 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
BrokenheartedWif
♀ Member
Member # 40955
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fghtingback

I understand your post. My WH carried on his LTA for at least 16 years, and a lot of it in our house and in our bed. He can't remember when he started f**king her in our house and not in a vehicle. Some friend she was. I'll take an enemy any day, at least they don't pretend to be a friend and care about you and you're family while burying an ax in your back.

I often wonder who is and was this person. He is changing, but the past is so tainted without answers. He is bad with dates and this went on for well over half of what I thought was our marriage.


He claims he loved me the whole time of his LTA. I'm not sure I'll survive his kind of love.

Posts: 67 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Central IN
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, August 6th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Btraydwife, you are so right. And I have been enabling his wishy washy behaviour by not being ready to enforce consequences. I'm still not ready, so your comment about working on getting myself ready is a good one.

I had requirements for R as well. And I have caved on three of them already. When I accused him of procrastinating and hoping that I would just forget about these requirements, he looked at me as if he just couldn't believe I would think of such a thing.

So I get that I am to blame for not setting consequences or following through. I guess I'm still hoping that he will surprise me. In the meantime, I am watching carefully.

Reallybites, I have had three IC sessions with two therapists. The first asked me what I wanted to do and when I told her that I wanted to rebuild our relationship, she said "I don't think you can. The betrayal is too huge"! The second believed and agreed that we needed my WH in on the sessions. She wanted to point out to him that I was suffering from PTSD and show him how to help me. We saw her together for about six sessions and then stopped because it was getting too costly and wasn't very helpful. She tended to grasp at straws.

Now I am in a situation where it is difficult for me to leave the house for more than a couple of hours as my mom lives with us. She is 91 and knowing about this would kill her.

So I shall carry on this way for now.

Thank you for all your replies. It really takes the edge off to talk about it.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 774 | Registered: Feb 2012
sinsof thefather
♀ Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 3:06 AM, August 7th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((FightingBack)))) You know I really feel for you. I've posted on your threads many times saying the same things: Has he proactively attempted to sit down and write you a written timeline of the things he can remember? All the things he has been promising to regarding this 'when he has time' - has he ever actually found the time? Has he started any work on himself to find out how he was able to keep the compartmentalisation going (that's if you can call actively involving her in his wife and children's lives compartmentalising) for 15 years. Has he removed her voice from his answerphone?

If the answer to all these questions is still 'no' then I think you are right. You need to look into yourself and try to find out if you can accept the life he's offering you going forward without any true 'closure' of the past. Will it be possible for you to 'accept' the affair is over now as he wants you to - because he truly doesn't seem willing to put any effort into working through it with you.

So that's what I think you should focus on. What you can live with best going forward: accepting the 'now' and the better marriage you have but never getting the chance for your own closure on the affair - or accepting divorce as a true option if you make line in the sand demands which he doesn't meet.

I do understand about having a much loved elderly parent who's somewhat dependent on you - I have one of those too. I do think you do have to start thinking about what you can live with longterm though. My advice is to start thinking about and working towards) what is going to be best for you now - and there is no judgement either way on what you decide - it's your life, your future - do what is best for you.


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1877 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, August 7th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((FightingBack)))) You know I really feel for you. I've posted on your threads many times saying the same things:


I do know sins, and thank you.

Has he proactively attempted to sit down and write you a written timeline of the things he can remember? All the things he has been promising to regarding this 'when he has time' - has he ever actually found the time?


No


Has he started any work on himself to find out how he was able to keep the compartmentalisation going (that's if you can call actively involving her in his wife and children's lives compartmentalising) for 15 years.

No


Has he removed her voice from his answerphone?

No to all of the above.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 774 | Registered: Feb 2012
overandone
Member
Member # 39162
Default  Posted: 3:37 AM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A couple of thoughts on your last post.

Our MC said WE should do a timeline together, not just him. So we sat down together, I drew out a calendar,one for each of us, from when we first got together with space for comments, feelings etc. We agreed on particular events, children born, moving house,the times when the A happened etc but other stuff we filled in on our own calendar without the other reading it. The purpose was, we didn't realise until afterwards, was to show how our discontent and gradual decrease in physical and emotional intimacy coincided with the A happening. It was more of a looking to see where we were both coming from rather than a blame game. Once we'd finished we gave each other the timelines, and I think it was very enlightening for both of us. So rather than just asking him for a timeline, is it worthg trying to do one together? It will also help get the dates straight, which was important to me.

Working on himself to work out how and why he compartmentalised? By the sounds of it, we had a lot more contact with OW and her H than you two did, I think the only answer to that one is it's the only way the A could continue. I'll never get my head round that one. In retrospect, my H could do it like a champion, no hint whatsoever that he had any feelings for her (he told her that was the case anyway, he was there for sex and nothing else), whereas I can see at times how she slipped up, but having no idea what was going on I just thought it was another part of her generally whacky, needy behaviour. My H never wanted to leave to live with OW, and honestly didn't think the A had any effect on our lives. Nobody knew apart from an old friend he occasionally saw up-country. He couldn't even see how unhappy it was making him, must be hard living such a secret life for years. But then he's always been a bit awkward socially.

And last, I would insist that he 'removed her voice from his answerphone'. Anything that reminds your H of her is just a huge NO NO, I would want to know why he wants to keep it.

Healing thoughts...


Me - BW (54)
Him - fWS (61)
kiddies - daughters 22 and 27,son 22,
d-day - April 18 2012
R - but lots of bumps in the long road

Posts: 227 | Registered: May 2013 | From: uk
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 7:08 AM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are 2 years, 8 months into recovery.

I say this very kindly, if he has not done the things you have asked for then you are feeling the way you are feeling because its not real true R. In my opinion you have taken back someone on his terms, not yours. But because he was nice to you and its like dating again you have let this go for 2 years and 8 months. Its called the HB phase, and for some that can mean a couple months of hot sex, for some that could mean 1 year of happy and for some its a little longer....I call it the phase where the BS has allowed what they really want to be swept under the rug. And I get it, I do. You are tired, you don't want to fight any more, you don't want any more drama, you want to feel safe.

And you are worried that if you bring this back up again that it will blow up the little bit of happiness you have right now, so you don't want to do it. So you sweep your own feelings and thoughts once again under the rug, to keep the peace. If things are "fine" right now then why rock the boat?

But you know deep down inside its not OK. And you are coming out of your own fog. And I am here to tell you it won't go away. If you did not have a good IC I would look for another. Sadly we don't always find the right one right away. Interview them first before your first app't.

OR, one day you will just get up and walk away. Cuz your gut is screaming at you. You are going to go into the anger phase soon.

This is JMO.


Posts: 5661 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH is a changed man. I would say that he is a better husband, friend and lover than before the affair.

We are better connected than ever. We enjoy each other and appreciate our time together. We love each other more fully.

I think we are actually going down the rabbit hole on this thread, and I don't know if it is helpful. The above two statements seem very positive.

You are trying to mesh your reality now, with the hidden reality, then. I don't know that it will ever make sense. You list a lot of really hurtful things, that would tear anyone up. If you get stuck there, it is a miserable place to be. My husband told his AP all kinds of things, and did all sorts of horrible stuff. When I let myself dwell on them, it is a misery. The more I realize it had nothing to do with me, or our marriage even, the easier I can get out of those dark places easier.

I don't think your husband "forgot" to love you. I think he didn't love himself, and he was very selfish and, just, wrong. I have a friend who is a social worker, and she sees it all the time -- a person, in a weak moment, makes a bad decision. . . and then another. . . and then they are stuck.

Your husband was stuck for kind of an unusually long time; it was easier to stay there than to leave once he was in it. He needs IC to figure out why. For you to feel safe, and move on, he needs to do it, wholeheartedly, whether he wants to or not. That's what I think.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 8:19 AM, August 8th (Friday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1999 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Topic Posts: 20

Return to Forum: Reconciliation Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.