Disregard what your WH is telling you. He is lying. Mine did the same. Just friends. The boyfriend is abusive. Blah...Blah...Blah. Don't tell him.... Found out later he wasn't. Just her(AP) way of justifying the affair and getting my husband to be her KISA. My husband bought it hook line and sinker. So pathetic. Keep in contact with the OBS, till you know for sure that this A is over. Which I doubt your WH could stop cold turkey. The OBS will help you keep the pressure on.
You might want to watch the 1940's movie "Gaslight" with Ingrid Bergman and Charles Boyer. The term "gaslight" came from this movie and it shows how the technique is used to manipulate someone by trying to control another's perception of reality. It is done with lies.
You have some very compelling evidence already that is highly suggestive of an emotional affair - at a minimum. An affair doesn't have to be physical to cause very serious damage to a marriage. Other huge concerns are that you have a confession by OW and that this supposed friendship was conducted in secret.
IMO, you cannot afford to trust your husband right now. Do not let him gaslight you into sweeping this whole thing under the carpet, either. You are his wife and you are entitled to the truth so that you can make an informed decision of how you want to proceed with your marriage. I do think that getting the transcripts of the text messages will be extremely difficult, absent a court order.
I would suggest that you stay on this, and absolutely insist and make it a requirement for him to undergo a polygraph. If he has nothing to hide, he should have no problem doing this if he wants to gain back your trust and save your marriage.
I am so sorry this has happened to you. You do not deserve this! Stay strong and take care of yourself physically and emotionally. You might want to see an IC so that you get some support and feedback in real life. It does help to read and post here, too.
My son's godmother is now divorced and she (and her children) were the one WS was visiting out-of-town when I discovered the WS's "EA/PA" that night...
WS and son's godmother worked together, and she has been like a sister to me, so I am still hoping is the case.
All of the sudden this morning, I browsed my FaceBook contact list and apparently, the godmother has deactivated her FB account. When I searched for her name under the FB search feature, she does have an account w/profile pic in tact and all. There's the "add friend" check-box next to her name. Shouldn't she already be "friends" in my list, unless she has recently "defriended" me?
I know all who reads this can fill in my next thought - is there something going on b/w WS and godmother now? When I discovered the OW's and WS's e-mails that night, I saw communication back-and-forth with WS and godmother in message list, too. The conversations they had were not inappropriate, and she always calls me "darling", and my daughter "honey"..... But, she calls WS that, too.... I didn't think it cause of concern until now....
When I questioned WS about flowers he sent to OW, he said he also sent flowers to godmother for mother's day...
Am I totally paranoid to be thinking THIS way now?
There is so much more going on that he isn't telling you the truth about. At some point you may decide you no longer care what the lies are, since you know they are still happening.
For me at least, rule one if we were not going to simply part ways was "no lying about anything - including lies of omission" Its not a harsh rule, it should apply to both of you (with the exception of you not telling him how you verify).
BH (Me) 49
D-Day Mar 19, 2014
1 year passionate EA/PA, ended by me on d-day.
Attempting to R
You're right to doubt anything your husband says. He's lied about everything.
If you spend even an hour or two reading past posts on this board, you'll begin to see a very common theme. Most married men when they're caught will attempt to keep their BW from contacting the husband of the OW by claiming he's 'abusive.' They'll tell their BW that if she tells the husband of the OW, he'll physically hurt the OW and then come looking for him (the cheating husband) - and all that blood would be on the BW's hands for opening her mouth.
So many of them pull this ploy. The minute I read the term "abusive husband" in your post, I rolled my eyes. You'd think these liars would come up with better material.
Look, I know how you feel. You want desperately to believe him rather than what your own eyes and ears have TOLD and shown you. I get it. I do.
But I think deep down, you know he's lying to you.
And he is.
I think right now because you have absolutely no security in your marriage because you KNOW he's lying to you and manipulating you and has been for a long while, in your mind virtually anyone right now could be in cohoots with him. I totally understand that paranoia because you get to a point where you feel you can't trust anyone anymore. I get it.
In all fairness regarding Facebook, I've found that some people (for whatever reason) will deactivate or close their facebook profile then down the road, start up a new one. That will automatically 'defriend' you. It's possible that your son's Godmother simply did that. I've had it happen several times to me over the years with facebook friends. If they don't remember everyone who was on their friend list so they can reach out and re-friend you on their new profile, you're out in the cold. But it's not always intentional.
But I will say that if you're able to find her in a search while you're logged in under your own profile, then she hasn't blocked you. If you were blocked, you could search for her until the cows came home but she wouldn't show up for you. Since you found her profile, you're not blocked.
I'd send her a friend request. If she ignores it or blocks you, then I'd definitely wonder what she has to hide. If she reacts favorably, then you'll know it wasn't intentional.
[This message edited by NeverAgain2013 at 8:50 AM, August 10th (Sunday)]
Anyone here who has been through a situation similar to yours will tell you to always listen to your gut. From what you have posted, I think your husband is going to be a hard nut to crack.
Have you given any consideration as to how to approach him on taking a polygraph? Have you considered taking this to MC and having a third party intervene in this matter?
I don't want to sound "whiny" or like the next episode of a daytime soap, but the saga continues...
The OWs husband sent the following "You and OW" message to WS yesterday (b-cc'd me):
"Over the past 4 weeks, I have thought many times about what I would say if I had the chance to talk to you once more. When I met you in 2011, I never thought that I was shaking the hand that would eventually seal the fate of my then 26 year marriage, and in fact that hand had probably already sealed the fate of our marriage.
I realized in the last 24 hours if I am going to avoid being the bitter person that others become when confronted with the horrible thought of their spouse being involved in an extramarital sexual affair, I am going to have to get to the point of forgiving all for their transgressions. Believe me, times have been tough in our home for the past four weeks thanks to the selfish actions of the two of you. As a believer in the fact that a person's soul is only as clear as their thoughts, I must make peace with what happened with you and <OW>, even though I will never forget the pain that it has caused."
I have to tell you, this person doesn't sound like an "abusive spouse" to me - or am I clearly blinded?
I have to remain objective about this, because I feel there may be ethical "rules" - about "crossing the line" and whistle-blowing to the OW's spouse about WS & OW's EA/PA.... Rules, forget the freakin' rules, as if there are any rules to this type of betrayal.
I know suggesting a poly-graph sounds smart, but I KNOW, JUST KNOW he's gonna turn the conversation around to deflect to MY FLAWS, somehow!
He will either choose to give that all up and try to make things work honestly or he won't. If he doesn't (and no indicators so far of that), then you get to choose whether you are going to take steps to end things or choose to live in an open marriage.
This is a hell that you don't deserve. It isn't your fault at all.
[This message edited by Didact at 12:04 PM, August 10th (Sunday)]
If you are going to try to stay in this marriage, you will need to strictly impose what you will and will not accept from him. That is going to be very hard to do as long as he continues to lie, gaslight and show no signs of remorse.
You deserve so much better than this.
I know you are feeling like you might be crazy or paranoid right now, but you are not. You are facing a traumatic situation and all of your responses are normal. You are absolutely right to question anything that doesn't add up. He has proven he has no issue with taking advantage of your trust.
Friends don't kiss and it seems her husband's email verifies your suspicions. They weren't just friends you knew it once you read those emails.
The abusive husband is a common lie. So is swearing on the lives of your children.
The affair or affairs he has had are already painful enough. What he is starting to do to you right now though, these lies to your face, the twisting of truth and blame, these are the actions that many members say hurt far worse.
I look back at myself when I was in this position and I had no idea of what I was up against. Do not assume anything positive about him. Thoughts like " he'd never...or he wouldn't" will only bring you more hurt right now.
This person is not the man you married. This person is like a vicious trapped dog. When he feels cornered he will do ANYTHING to feel like he got away. He will run you down if he feels he needs to. There is nothing sacred to him right now, except protecting his ego. Not even your children mean as much to him right now.
He will twist and manipulate you to avoid facing responsibility for his actions. He will enlist others in his quest if he feels he needs to.
Know this above everything else. You are not crazy. You haven't done anything wrong and you are justified to question every tiny thing regarding your husband.
Finally, you will survive this. Keep coming back here for help. We've been through this. We know how you are feeling. This website is the only reason I kept my sanity. We can help you.
Hang in there!
[This message edited by BtraydWife at 1:14 PM, August 10th (Sunday)]
Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson
Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.
"He's an abusive husband - she is just scared of him"" --- that seems to be a very common line amongst WHs. My husband's OW1 was also in an "abusive" relationship. He "verbally abused" her and on OWs BS dday (back in January, 6 months before mine), she emailed my husband a false NC and talked about her "bruises" - which she later said didn't happen.
At first, I felt bad for the woman, my father was abusive so that was a soft spot for me, I guess. But, the truth is - (a) she should have left her marriage if he was (b) we'll likely never know and rescuing her (via sex with her apparently) isn't my husband's job.
I'm sorry you are here, there are a lot of resources in the healing library. Your husband sounds deep in the fog and likely won't admit to anything unlesss you have proof - and even then he'll twist and lie.
You don't need any more proof. There is nothing that will force your H to be honest. He may even be deluded enough to pass a polygraph, so don't bother with that. You know he cheated and you know he's lying. I will share my story as a cautionary tale.
I became suspicious in 2011 and started doing some digging. Eventually I asked my H to bring home his cell phone records from work. He brought home the bill. (Grrrr) I was able, however, to hack in, change the password and see the text and cell records for 2 years. There, in black and white were the numerous calls and texts back and forth for two years. He swore on all that was sacred that it was "only" a mentoring relationship that became inappropriately frequent. I called her and she confirmed this. I lost it, threw him out, told my parents and our kids that we were divorcing. He apologized to them all, promised me "anything", went to IC, bought marriage CDs, became more attentive, etc. I let him come back.
But it was all a lie. Fortunately he had immediately ended the A, but he lied to his IC and avoided looking into his deeper (very deep) issues. I still did not feel safe and kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.
The other shoe dropped in September 2012. I got an anonymous letter that claimed that his "EA" was actually a PA and that he had started up with someone new. (That part was actually untrue and verified with a polygraph). I called the OW again and this time she confessed.
When I got home I told my H I had spoken to her and I wanted HIM to tell me the truth. He said he thought I was bluffing. I told him it didn't matter because I was leaving him anyway but it was time that he started treating me with respect. And finally, FINALLY, he started being honest. I got the truth about stuff he had lied about for decades. (Btw it was an almost 4 year PA, without a love connection)
And that was the beginning. He had to stop lying to me, but more importantly, to himself. He had to face the shame of who he had become before he could start to change. It is a long road, he has some real childhood trauma to face and he still fights facing that, but he knows that he must for himself and that I won't accept superficial solutions any longer.
Perhaps your H is capable of this, perhaps he is not. But you will never be safe with him until he can be truly, deeply honest with himself and with you.
My advice? Just refuse to engage him beyond child and financial discussions until he is ready to be fully open and transparent. If he wants to be with the OW let him. What have you lost? Disengage as much as possible. What he is currently putting you through is abusive. If he is back in the house ask him to leave. You will find peace more quickly without him there.
And please, don't apologize for wordy posts or for "whining"! We all get it. Please lean on us. I SO wish I had found SI after my first Dday in 2011. I would be so much further ahead by now.
Feel free to send me a private message if you would like. I'm not on here all the time anymore. My R, while having it's ups and downs, is going very well, and my H is a "new man". Willing to work on his issues, totally honest (for the first time in the 30 years I've known him) loving, open, attentive, giving. But if he can't continue down this path I will walk away. Never again will I writhe on the floor in that kind of pain.
My heart goes out to you.
It is SO hard to maintain composure around a 9 & 13 year old about this, but I'm really trying - NEVER want to put them in the middle of this or make them think it has anything to do with them (IF they ever find out...)
The "detailed-oriented" side of my personality is eating me alive. Not like the words on the page are going to magically change or be erased, so why do I keep reading these e-mail transcripts???
I feel safe here to ask support on this, but I cannot stop reading, re-reading the following e-mail from OW to WS, which was my initial shocking discovery e-mail:
<From OW to WS>: "There are so many times in any given day that I <OW> think of you <WS> and me together. I can't tell you how much I miss you....miss holding your hand...miss kissing you, miss just being with you. You are THE most remarkable man I have ever had the pleasure knowing, of being with, and of being in love with and loving.
I'm such the lucky one.
Forever yours <signed OW>
Is this not black and white????
[This message edited by kaylee711 at 5:44 PM, August 10th (Sunday)]
Is this not black and white????
They had sex. You know it, her husband confirmed it. The only person that will deny it is the one trying to avoid responsibility for what he has done. He wants you to question and doubt yourself. He hopes he can convince you that what you know to be true (they had sex) is wrong. If he can do that, he will be able to blame his actions on you.
Don't allow him to do that. Trust your gut. Those feelings you get have a much better track record than he does. You know he is willing to lie to you.
People have caught their spouses in bed with the aps and some have chased after their bs with no clothing on swearing it wasn't how it looked. It doesn't matter if you have undeniable proof. He will still claim it's not true. His behavior isn't logical and logical arguments won't work with him.
Stop trying to convince him. You know it's true. Tell him you know it's true and you refuse to listen to anymore of his excuses. You won't convince him to admit it. He's that trapped dog remember? Truth means nothing to him. His ego is his only concern.
Don't believe any of the hurtful things he says to you. He is only trying to deflect his guilt and blame. You have done nothing wrong.
[This message edited by BtraydWife at 5:58 PM, August 10th (Sunday)]
Read the 180. Get your ducks in a row. Then file. Tell him you are no longer willing to share your husband with OW. That might knock him out of his fog.
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
Does anyone know how to retrieve copies of e-cards from American Greetings.com? In one of OW's e-mails, she reminded WS to log-on to americangreetings.com to retrieve an e-card she sent him but he had not "opened"/ "retrieved" yet. The card was created/sent by OW to WS on "04/09/2013", so I don't know how I can get a copy of the card (have the link, but isn't working - probably "stale dated"). I have e-card # as a search reference, too....