Keep hanging in there.
Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson
Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.
Welcome to SI. I am so sorry you find yourself here with the rest of us BSs, but you will find a lot of support, comfort, & wisdom here.
Your story is very similar to mine. Unfortunately, even tho I could see a phone record of thousands of text messages between the OW slunt & WH, I was never able to see the content---he deleted them all
(except one, which said [from her to him] "What time do you break for lunch?"----she sent that one after Dday, after we had already made an agreement in MC that WH would be 100% transparent, so he HAD to show me that one. He made up a b*ll$h*t story about that tho, but I did find out the truth---that he took her out for lunch alone, AFTER he had already promised NC)
& I was NEVER able to see the content of the other TMS.
It doesn't matter---you already have enough proof.
Cheaters always lie & minimize, so assume the worse---that it is a PA & has been going on for some time.
I know, believe me I know, that it seems impossible now. But you will have to disconnect from him, whether you eventually decide to stay (R) or go (D).
You need to go into self preservation mode now, for you & the kids.
I had not yet found this site when I was at the stage you are now----boy do I wish I had.
I was pretty tough---told him to move out the day that I found out-----but I was way too nice during the following months.
We are trying to R, but I am not very happy. I think things would be in a healthier place now (3 years after Dday) if I had laid the law down from the beginning.
[This message edited by mchercheur at 7:29 PM, August 10th (Sunday)]
Maybe that is why I still don't trust him.
That's the other snowball on this, we "renewed" our vows, so he actually pledged twice to be faithful spouse? What crap!
I am so naive, as he must have just been going thru the motions the second time we said "I do", even though we were never divorced to begin with...
[This message edited by kaylee711 at 8:08 PM, August 10th (Sunday)]
I have an exWH who to this day does not admit he did anything. This gaslighting and lying is one of the most sadistic, evil things one person can do to another.
Your WH cheated, physically, emotionally, everything. Start processing that. Know it is true. Start the grieving process over the loss of your marriage as you knew it.
I think it's possible the godmother may have something to do with it. Maybe she knew about the A and maybe even enabled it (did god mother know OW?). Since he stayed with her, he may have confided it. don't go crazy imagining things, but I think you are right to think something is weird. I know none of my good friends would drop me or block me without telling me.
BTW, NO, a BIG FAT NO, the OW husband is not abusive. That is so cheater handbook it's a giant cliché.
WH use this for a few reasons:
1. they think it gives the damsel in distress (aka OW) an exception to cross your M boundaries, thereby enabling communication (ex: "I know it's inappropriate to talk to other women cause I'm married, but she is an exception because she is being abused and needs someone")
2. they hope to make you assume that an abused woman would not want to risk engaging in an A (especially a PA) because she would be afraid of an abusive husband. Also, the WH will want you to think he would never be so dishonorable as to have an A (especially a PA) with a poor, vulnerable, victimized, abused woman! What kind of monster would do that?
3. to scare you. Especially on thinking the abusive husband will harm you, your WH or maybe even your children. They will use fears like- abusive husband may ruin WH job or physically harm your family.
4. To discredit anything that you will hear from the OW husband. "he's abusive AND CRAZY" (those two things always go hand in hand).
Your husband had an affair (strike one);
You confronted your husband;
He lied (strike two).
This is unacceptable. The more you allow him to lie to you, the more he will lie.
You need to make it very very very clear to him that he has one opportunity to tell you the truth. If he lies again, you cannot guarantee that you will stay in the marriage - you will have to consider your options.
Three strikes you're out. If you don't respect yourself enough to demand the truth, why should he?
What K9 said - search for a D lawyer tomorrow.
You have enough proof. You don't have to keep looking for more. Don't worry about the e-card or getting text message transcripts. If it is easy, do it; but don't waste away days trying to recover.
From experience and from reading here on SI a ton ..... this is the kind of situation that will only be resolved when he knows you are seriously and he has not one inkling of a doubt that you will divorce his sorry ass. So, prepare yourself for that. If I were you this is what I would do:
Kick him out.
Get all my important documents together ... birth certificates, diplomas, passports, social security numbers (his, too) and anything else important like life insurance, retirement plan information, bank statements, pay stubs .... the wayward spouse is very unlikely to share those if things get down and dirty.
See a lawyer and file. I know I could always stop the proceedings if I think he is really ready to confess, go to counseling, help me heal and reconcile.
Move as much money as I could so he can't keep it from me. I may be willing to be fair and reasonable but I doubt he would be.
So what if you don't do anything? Are you really going to be able to live with this? Him telling you 'this isn't what you think it is....' and you are going to say, 'oh, okay ... let's get back to regular life now.'
Failure to attempt is failure.
1 - If this happened to your daughter (or sister or best friend) ... what would you tell her?
2 - Do you really want a person like this as a husband? (Obviously he may change especially once he believes you are serious.)
3 - Do you really want someone who doesn't really want you? Think about that for a minute. You will be working forever to 'have' him and he will be working forever to 'have' someone else.
The email message you posted is enough on its own to know that your WH has been having an affair. Not just an emotional affair, but a physical one. OUR message to your husband confirms it on the ow's side. Those 2 things alone give you all the proof you need to know what this is. You are fighting hard with denial and my feeling is is that you really want denial to win. Stop. Breathe. Stop looking for evidence. You don't need any more. Your husband has defiled your marriage and shown the mother of his children complete disrespect by having an affair. Breathe. Feel the pain and acknowledge it's truth. It is immense and overpowering. Feel it, it's ok to it will help you to release some of the pressure building up in you. Once you have done that, ask yourself what you plan to do about it? Do you want your marriage? Do you want to D? Right now there is no chance of R with a husband refusing to be honest with you. Are you going to accept that? If not, what are you going to do? The polygraph is a good idea, it's not a direct threat to the marriage and if he wants his marriage he might open up. You can put his bags on the front steps and tell him to go be with his has sweetheart. You can consult a lawyer and get D papers drawn up... Or you can do nothing. What you are doing right now is making yourself sick, running around trying to collect more evidence, hoping he might finally admit what's been going on or that it will all make sense and WH will have been telling the truth. Breathe! It is one of the hardest things to do to accept your life has been destroyed by the one person that was meant to love you forever. Breathe. You were so brave on the first night. Find that bravery to take the next step! You can, you are strong! Breathe.
Is it appropriate to bring my paper trail evidence into a counseling session, or could that backfire on me? Thoughts?
[This message edited by kaylee711 at 4:15 AM, August 11th (Monday)]
Genuine question, just trying to understand where you are coming from!
a counselor would see right thru his crap and be able to steer him to fess up cause he sure is not going to confess anything to me.
Why do you need a confession? Think about what the answer is to what I just asked.
I do understand it, I've been there. You still hope he might be able to explain it all. You hope it will fill in the blanks. You want "in" to the affair so it's not just "theirs". You want to hear him throw her under the bus. You want him to prove he still loves you by respecting your requests to confess.
I remember my father taking in me in his arms, I'm shaking, screaming, crying, my ewWH was walking out the door and I'm screaming at his back "what did you do with OW!!"... My father whispered in my ear as he soothed me and I sobbed in his arms "you already know, you already know...."
And that is what I would say to you.
Take the advice of the others who have given you a step by step on what to do next. It will give you focus, it will help keep you from getting more depressed if you have an active plan that requires doing.
He is not going to admit what he's been doing is wrong until you enforce some serious consequences. Kick him out of the house. He is not your teenage child. He can't come and go as he pleases between you and his girlfriend.
You may think if he confesses or admits to it, things will change. That's not usually the case. It's not going to bring the change you are looking for from him.
He may not be actually involved with her right now but he is still in an affair mindset. You stop that by enforcing consequences. You being upset is not a consequence to him. Take action, make his life uncomfortable. That's the only thing that will make him stop and really look wt what he's doing.
Words don't work with someone in the fog, like your husband. Actions are the only thing that will get through to him.
I know throwing him out of the house seems drastic but his actions are drastic. He had an affair and still denies it.
[This message edited by BtraydWife at 9:26 AM, August 11th (Monday)]
I know you still want to save the marriage and find the man you thought you knew. It is so difficult to accept that that is all over. We ALL know how hard it is and we're not pretending it is easy.
(((( kaylee ))))
But it IS over. Whether your WH snaps out of it or not, the past is gone. You need to gear up and accept this new reality and protect yourself from your new enemy: your deluded, selfish WH.
So MC is NOT going to work. It will not snap him out of anything. My WH and I went to MC shortly after DD, but 1) he admitted the affair (confessed, in fact) 2) he cut the OW out of his life 3) he committed to saving the marriage. Even then, MC was tough, because he still had the mindset that led him to the affair. Many people on here argue that the WH needs IC (individual counseling) before starting MC, because otherwise all the BS gets is self-justifying crap.
In short, your friend is totally wrong. MC is likely to be an extension of the pain rather than a solution. Your WH needs a cold, sharp dose of reality -- the consequences of having an A. Show him you're serious. Show him that HIS reality will be changing, too. He can't carry on in this foggy state. Go to a divorce lawyer and draw up an agreement. Like everyone says, you don't need to go through with it -- it's a way of showing him how very serious you are. And you need to follow it up with actions that show you're not the compliant wifey any more. When he spins you a line, practice giving him the "are you fucking kidding me?" look. No cuddles, no niceities. You are roommates. He gets none of the benefits of marriage.
Meanwhile, you need support. KEEP POSTING. But also, get yourself a therapist. You are going to need all the support you can get. You need someone IRL telling you you're not crazy, and that you need to look out for yourself.
I know right now you're focused on evidence. As others have said, you have all the evidence you need. I think that you're still in denial, and that your search for more evidence is a way of convincing yourself that this is really, really happening. And also an antidote to his lies. Part of you thinks that if you get that last piece of proof, he'll break down and admit it. But, as others say, this is an unlikely scenario. We all indulge in the fantasy where someone (the OW, the WH) breaks down and admits what a terrible person they've been and acknowledges what a terrible thing they've done to you. But this is a fantasy, no more. And honestly, it doesn't really accomplish anything. You have the evidence you need. The fact that your WH is still denying this ridiculously compelling evidence says something really important to you -- that he's NOT facing up to what he's done and YOU have to take action to protect yourself. He does not have your interests at heart. He is your enemy right now. Treat him as such. He no longer gets the benefits of marriage. Too bad, loser. Those are the consequences.
We all know how hard this is. I know I'm giving you some really harsh advice and it's so difficult to take this in. Is there any way you can take a few days away to clear your head and make plans? I do agree with the advice re securing money and documents. If your WH gets a whiff that you're seriously protecting yourself, he may turn mean and ugly. It happens. Not always, but it happens. You just don't know. The guy you thought you knew is dead, and anything could happen.
It's a horrible, horrible place to be. We know.
(((( Kaylee ))))
He's going to push back against every logical point and argument you present him. He's going to continue to lie in the face of overwhelming evidence. Right now it's him vs you in his mind. Even if you are able to pry a confession from him, it will not bring the change in attitude you are looking for. It won't make a magic light bulb go off in his head.
You taking an action like kicking him out or filing for divorce is the most effective way to get this to stop fast. He has to stop himself and decide he's making a mistake. If he does that, admitting his bad choices will come along with that.
It can't happen the other way around. I understand what you are doing and why. I agree you need and deserve a confession but the way you are going about it is like a battle between the two of you. I know that's not how you see it, but it's how he sees it.
You are to be denied, rebelled against, take no prisoners, and never give up. <--- his mindset right now. You can't get where you want to go with him like this.
We aren't saying you don't need a confession, of course you do. We are saying you won't get it this way.
I came to the exhaustive realization that something must be in my heart that will enable me to go the "R" route, or else why would I not have booted him out of my life on 7/13/14. The only way I think I can even consider "R" over "D" is if I am confident that he just admits it.... I think it is my need for closure - I never leave loose ends and have everything meticulously organized that at work and home (perfectionist). I am TOO EFFICIENT at times. I grew up with a physically/sexually abusive father and an alcoholic mother. So, you can see why all my life I have had the "I'm not good enough or why should I DESERVE to be happy in life?" I have always been a "people pleaser" all of my life and sometimes I overcompensate to extremes to cover up my "flaws"... Not to stray too far, but I took my parents' comments when I was 15 that I was getting "chubby" (5'6", 125 lbs). How did I react to this - I was supercritical of my external appearance and lost 30 pounds ....). So, I'm turning 44 this month and have been battling anorexia on and off for 28 years of my life... That's a whole other topic forum, but it certainly has affected the perception of "imperfection" I have of my physical body...
I downloaded a couple of books from amazon.com yesterday about healing from PA/EA and how to get on the road to "R". One of the books discusses how the BS will NEVER FORGET and NEVER COMPLETELY FORGIVE - which I know I can't forgive him, but the book talks about coping strategies. My point, while WS was in the shower last night, I did a desktop check of his e-mails and saw that he also had a Kindle book open that talks about how WS's need to be honest and PATIENT with the BS, he was on the page that talked about what the WS needs to do to help the BS recover. He never said anything about these books, nor did I mention it, even though now he knows I'm checking all of his electronic media on a random basis.
We have our first counseling sessions today, and he is trying to be overly nice to me - asking me if there's anything I need, telling me to make dinner reservations tonight 4 wherever I want to go, since we are "kid-less" this week. He left his laptop bag next to mine on his way out to work this morning, with a folder that included all of his e-mail, FaceBook, Twitter account names and pws.... Should I take this for what it's worth that maybe he is "coming around" and realizing what he did?
Confused, so confused, but something is telling me to not throw away 20 years of marriage.... I just want to be careful and prevent any "I'm sorrys" on my part, because all of my life, I've taken the blame for situations that are not necessarily my fault....