Is it a slap in the face? Absolutely. But, he's living in a fantasy world. And TBH, will tell AP anything they want to hear to get sex.
Think of it as absolute proof you're done. We all hang onto some hope, but every dagger he adds should make it easier to disengage.
In-house S sucks, and incidents like this motivate us to go on our separate ways.
6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your mind
I'm currently S and filed for D last Sept. We're still married, and I'm getting really impatient.
Double Betrayal D-Day 7/26/2013
Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still progress.
Was I wrong to look at that as another possible affair..or is this okay for him to be saying this to some woman during in house?
I think it's horrendously insensitive and douchey--and yes, adultery--if one is unfaithful during in-house separation. It's like all of the infidelity that preceded the "separation" (and in-house is a limbo that really is NOT a separation, IMO), wrapped in blatant disrespect and disregard. I think it's an especially cruel act--and it's one of the reasons I think in-house separation is a very bad idea. (And yes--I had a long one.) In your situation yes, absolutely, it's an affair.
OTOH, once physical separation is established --with the intent that it will be permanent--I don't automatically consider new relationships to be affairs. Some couples permanently separate without divorce for legitimate reasons (insurance being one that leaps to mind). Others may have a protracted legal trajectory.
I can think of a million reasons not to start relationships when separated.
To me, the most important reason is that it takes time to heal, and there's little chance of having a successful relationship (that does not harm self or others) if you have not taken the time to do so.
But at 3+ years out, infidelity is not one of MY reasons not to have another relationship. Trac-Fone is living with another woman--and I don't consider it cheating--not even a little. (Stupid? Yes. Exploitative? Yes. Doomed? Yes. But not cheating.)
My kids are bothered by the relationship, but not because of marital status. Their angst is (very justifiably) abandonment-related.
I'm not in a relationship or looking for one. I certainly would understand if anyone ruled me out as a potential partner for moral reasons. I would respect that.
However, I would not--even for a moment--hesitate to date based on my marital status, if the right guy came along at this point. I've worked hard to heal. I am a safe partner. My marriage is just a piece of the past that remains, for very complicated reasons, in limbo.
I took my vows very, very seriously. Very. But entering a relationship would not be cheating---though I respect the viewpoint of those who feel differently. This may be because my marriage was, at its core--and from the outset--fraudulent. Or it may just be that it means nothing now. But it's not because I'm immoral or have porous boundaries. My boundaries are steel-clad; they have never posed a threat to any of my relationships.
This was once a very black and white issue for me. It no longer is.
[This message edited by solus sto at 11:01 AM, August 12th (Tuesday)]
But even so I can relate to part of the "slap in the face" of having him living in your home, talking to another woman that way in YOUR home.
I filed for a D two days after the final D-day in my first M. So yes, he was already involved with her and she was the reason we split. But I told him that he could stay in the house until he found somewhere else to stay...I guess sort of like your in-house separation idea. I think it lasted about two weeks with him sleeping on the couch. One night I heard him talking on the phone to OW around 1:00 AM. This was on the landline as it was in 1992, before the days of cell phones. I looked at it as MY HOUSE and I kind of lost it that night and told him he needed to find a different place to live. And he did. He moved in her trailer with her, of course. One of my ways of coping was to start dating right away and quite frankly I don't regret it, nor do I consider it to be having an A.
In my situation, we were not legally married so knowing that, I guess he never had an affair or cheated on me in the first place.
Does the piece of paper mean anything in that reagard when the very basis of the agreement has been breeched?
I'm not so sure anymore.
I don't see it as an affair, but it is definitely a gray area. Especially in your situation where it was happening during in-house separation.
I'm not very religious, so my marriage was merely a piece of paper that was destroyed when vows were broken by my STBX. The second that we decided to S, we were no longer married in my eyes. To me being married means that you are supporting one another, loving one another, relying on one another, committed to one another and spending time with one another. If you are separated and have made the decision to move forward with D, then I feel you are single.
However, I might be somewhat biased because I am still legally married, but I have had a couple relationships since my separation.
“Optimism is a strategy for making a better future. Because unless you believe that the future can be better, you are unlikely to step up and take responsibility for making it so."
In THIS kind of case, yes it is an A.
If we were in house S and paperwork were filed AND we were NC (other than parenting), then it would be a gray area where I may view it differently.
It's a grey area that has nuances depending on your own personal belief system.
Specifically, I'd say you need to apply mature judgment.
From a BS perspective, for BS's:
In my case, I'd say there were milestones.
The marriage contract ended d-day minus 2 years, when XWW started her first A. She negated her marriage vows to me. I just didn't know yet.
I found out about it on D-day, 2 years after, but was willing to beg for R.
Three months later, another affair, second D-day, I realized the marriage was over.
2 weeks after that, I filed for divorce.
At this point, it became a case of my healing, and waiting for the paperwork (the divorce) to catch up to the reality.
In my case, the legal dissolution took 4 years.
If your belief system says your vows are forever, regardless what your X did, then you're really up a creek. You can never be released from those vows.
If your belief system says you need to wait for the court to "bless" your dissolution, then so be it. Just be aware that could be a lot longer than you think at first.
My belief system said I was obligated right up until I decided once and for all that I was done and had initiated all the legal steps. And no longer.
From a BS perspective, looking at WS's:
They lied to you and ignored their vows before you filed for divorce. What difference does it make once you've filed? How could you expect better behavior from them now than you could expect then?
So, if you are headed to D, then there's not committed relationship, and so if you're dating (or having sex with) someone else then that's not an affair.
That doesn't mean it's a good idea though. Shortly on the heels of deciding to D you probably aren't in a good mental state to have a relationship, and in my case, I'm not ready. If my STBW jumped into another relationship so soon after we tried and failed to R, I'd look at it as a deliberate provocation. But not an affair.
And of course if R were still a possibility then this would kill the last chance IMO.
As to the legal side, AFAIK, sex while still married to someone else is adultery, but in this case adultery isn't the same as infidelity.
Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961
9/16/12 Dday #1 I discover wife's affair. When she tells AP i found out, he promptly dumps her to save his family. Later in the week she says she wants to divorce. we agree to in-house separation.
12/1/12 Dday #2. During in-house separation, i learn she's having a long distance relationship with a different OM.
Felt like another A, honestly. We both had agreed not to date during in-house separation. Even though we had both retained counsel, neither of us had filed.
She moved out 1/12/13. I finally filed 3 months later, on 4/3/2013, and we got a temporary order in place on 4/22/2013. The court recognizes 4/22/13 as the date of our separation, but i pretty much figure anybody she had a relationship with after she physically moved out no longer counts as a new affair partner.
Unlike a lightbulb, you really can't unscrew another person, so why split hairs?
For the record, my judgment may be affected by my getting involved with a single woman 6 months after STBXWW moved out. i didn't really consider mine an affair, since i had filed and STBXWW was long gone. But i guess, technially it is.
Interestingly enough, STBXWW also considered my relationship with this woman an affair. Even though she had multiple EA's and PA's during the marriage, and she also had started taking birth control after she moved out, i cheated on her. go figure.
My attorney also told me not to start seeing anyone. Even though I live in a no fault state, my attorney used the cheating to get me a better settlement.
It is what it is.
But an A or "cheating" is not a legal definition. I share SweetAngelBroken's view:
Cheating is lying and sneaking around.