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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Comparing the marriage before the A
Lostcat
♀ Member
Member # 43940
Default  Posted: 4:28 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BH and I were just having an actually very good conversation about things. He was telling me his worries about R. For him we had a perfect marriage and a perfect story, which I have broken. He sent me a link yesterday to a story about a couple who were married for 76 years, never argued and died on the same day. I guess I never saw our M like that. I saw it as a regular M, with ups and downs, lots of arguments and difficulties like everyone else. How can I compete with this utopic marriage? Of course if we manage to R, we will have a scar. He says he has a problem with that because a perfect M doesn't have any scars. Do all BS's feel like this? That your relationship was completely perfect and WS just went and broke it all out of the blue? (I am not saying that our M was responsible for me having an A, I was totally responsible for that.) how can we R if BH is comparing whatever comes out of this mess to a utopic relationship?


Me WW 40
BH 38
2 kids 4 & 7
DDay 06/01/13, false R til 01/06/14
S til 03/23/14, now in hopeful R
So grateful for this chance

Posts: 57 | Registered: Jul 2014
hopeful325
♀ New Member
Member # 43521
Default  Posted: 5:56 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Before DDAY I did not realize my marriage was broken, but looking back after I realize the we had lost touch with one another and we're not making each other a priority. As my IC said "A person does not step out of a happy marraige" . I take responsibility for my part of the problems, of course the choice to cheat was all him, there were other ways to fix things. And yes my marriage is scarred but I'm ok with that because I know we will come out stronger, we're already getting stronger. It may take your BH a while to accept it.

Posts: 31 | Registered: May 2014
authenticnow
♀ Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 6:02 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My BH said similar things to me. He said he had me on a pedestal, that while our M wasn't perfect, he thought it was pretty good.

I know that I should have communicated to him my feelings of discontent that were building up over the years. He said he was in a war he didn't even know he was fighting.

As far as him putting me on a pedestal, I told him that wasn't fair. Although sweet, it is naive and unrealistic and puts a lot of pressure on me. Nobody deserves to be on a pedestal, we're all human.

Expecting a M like that couple (if it's even true) is unrealistic. I think your H's attitude is immature (not said negatively, but it is almost childlike). That's not life. Marriages have ups and downs, bumps in the road. What matters is learning and growing together, how you deal with the difficulties, getting through the challenges of life together.

Cheating is terrible. Nobody should do it, there is no excuse. But now you have cheated and his view of his perfect life is shattered. That's very sad. Now things are getting real. You will both have to develop new tools, reshape your image of what your M was and is now, and go from there.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 37745 | Registered: Sep 2007
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with everything that has been said, except for the "no one steps out of a happy marriage." Unless, one gauges the happiness of a marriage in weekly increments. We had a reasonably happy marriage that only became a "problem" when my H hit a personal low spot.

We are happier now, due to a lot of hard work, but many books (including " Not Just Friends") discuss how affairs come up even in good marriages.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 8:18 AM, August 13th (Wednesday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1996 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do all BS's feel like this? That your relationship was completely perfect and WS just went and broke it all out of the blue? (I am not saying that our M was responsible for me having an A, I was totally responsible for that.)

how can we R if BH is comparing whatever comes out of this mess to a utopic relationship?

As a BS, and since you are asking BSs, I can only speak for my own feelings.

But I have had similar conversations with my wayward.

In my case, When I think the marriage was perfect, what I really mean is that it was a good marriage with all the NORMAL ups and downs of a good marriage.

In my case, the message I am trying to convey is that I believe that I had realistic expectations of a good marrieage.

And, it is sometimes my feeling that my wayward cheated because he had UNrealistic expectations of marriage and life in general.

This is what scares me about R. In retrospect, My wayward never seemed happy with what we had. He always was looking to the future for happiness.

His idea of happiness was higher pay, a bigger house, a garage full of exotic cars, etc.

Me.....I was just happy with small things, like a full moon, a walk on the beach, a good meal and fun with friends or family.

So, in your hubbies case, perhaps what he really means is that he feel that your expectations of marriage are unrealisitic and because of that he fears you will cheat again, when you need a fantasy to take you out of the dolrums.

So, I perhaps you can help your hubby heal from your betrayal by developing more realistic expectations, and showing that you mean it.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1202 | Registered: May 2014
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"A person does not step out of a happy marraige"

My counselor said that in SOME marriages, a good marriage will not prevent cheating.

If the issue of Growing apart is what prompted unhappiness in the marriage, then that's something that should prompt a request for marriage counseling, as a solution.

Dating other people will not solve any issues in a marriage, but particularly it wont' solve a feeling of growing apart.

The affair will only push both of you further away from each other, during the affair.

And after the affair is discovered it creates a wound that the loyal spouse can never fully heal from because, Yes, there will always be scar.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1202 | Registered: May 2014
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My BH said similar things to me. He said he had me on a pedestal, that while our M wasn't perfect, he thought it was pretty good.

I know that I should have communicated to him my feelings of discontent that were building up over the years. He said he was in a war he didn't even know he was fighting.

Absolutely, 1000% the same in my case.

This may be t/j, but part of me feels like this test is going to make our M stronger. Don't get me wrong -- I wish it wouldn't have been this test. But in any part of life, I think that overcoming adversity is important.

I think of it like an athlete. I have a star football player who has always been better than the kids around him. Until he is pushed, he will never develop fully. It's not a perfect analogy, but I don't think that a M, without any difficulties to overcome, is the "perfect" M.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 558 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
wk55hn
♂ Member
Member # 44159
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not one of these guys who says her affair is the worst thing that ever could happen, I've been through a lot worse, I had a lot of romantic relationships before I got married, some serious, and I don't care much about any of them anymore. I look at her affair the same way, just some guy who she doesn't care about much anymore. That said, prior to the affair, I felt like my wife and I were facing life's challenges together, that no matter what happened, even if things got tough, if we were in the down part of the ups and downs, she always had my back. I felt like I could count on her through thick and thin. Now I know I can only count on myself.

I love my wife. I stayed for the kids, but I still love my wife. I just can't count on her. We were married almost 20 years when she cheated. If I left my wife, I would be giving up someone I love who can't be counted on, and chances are I would find another woman who I could love who might no be able to be counted on.

I'm pretty sure I will be OK and my marriage will be OK, we love each other and we will have our ups and downs, but I wish I could feel like that again, like no matter what, she always would have my back.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 9:23 AM, August 13th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 324 | Registered: Jul 2014
5Hurting5
♀ Member
Member # 44452
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We haven't gotten to the "why" yet since MC is tomorrow.

I will say that I thought we were perfect. A little boring and homebodyish, but enjoyed each others company and spent a fair bit of time together, sex 2-3 times a week. He came to me last November and expressed an interested in getting out of the vanilla box and I complied, nervously at first and then with enthusiasm.

None of that stopped it.


Posts: 85 | Registered: Aug 2014
ThatGirl2
♀ New Member
Member # 44153
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting discussion here. My BH also said that he put me on a pedestal, but I certainly never felt that way. We argued (a lot) and I never really felt heard. We had a lot of unresolved issues, too.

My BH said I have stained our marriage - like red wine on a white carpet. You can scrub all you want, but there will always be a faint reminder.

But, authenticnow is right, cheating is terrible, and there is never an excuse for it.

[This message edited by ThatGirl2 at 9:38 AM, August 13th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jul 2014
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That said, prior to the affair, I felt like my wife and I were facing life's challenges together, that no matter what happened, even if things got tough, if we were in the down part of the ups and downs, she always had my back. I felt like I could count on her through thick and thin. Now I know I can only count on myself.

I love my wife. I stayed for the kids, but I still love my wife. I just can't count on her.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^yep.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1202 | Registered: May 2014
Lark
♀ Member
Member # 43773
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do all BS's feel like this? That your relationship was completely perfect and WS just went and broke it all out of the blue?

I didn't feel our marriage was perfect. We were having issues before the A. Getting at the "truth" of what was actually issues is a more difficult story. We have mutually traced back a timeline of when he started to have a "second life" that was initially just hanging and smoking pot with friends. We now, looking back, realize he was separating himself from the M bit by bit.

I, with that slow separation and distance, but also a whole host of other things, was also more distant. New baby, sleeplessness, post-partem issues, family members passed away, work demanding a lot more time, etc etc.

Things that I thought were situational. My husband attributed them to a distant M.

So our perspective of what the pre-A marriage was does and doesn't line up in some ways. But no, neither of us thought it was perfect. I was happy and content in it, despite the issues. I knew we were having issues, but I thought they were minor, temporary, situational. That my husband seemed happy - albeit a bit distant - when he was home definitely fed into that kind of thinking.

I never thought my husband was perfect. But I loved all of him.


I think havign the expectation of a fairytale marriage is going to set people up for disappointment or anxious to try and make that fairytale true. I don't think the BS being upset that the M will have this kind of scar is off at all. Most Ms have ups and downs, most have scars - but this seems an extreme kind of scar to have to bear.

Is your BS in IC?


“It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.” - Dumbledore

Posts: 554 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: California
Lark
♀ Member
Member # 43773
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A person does not step out of a happy marriage

I'd disagree with that. Even on here, some WS (granted not a huge amount of them, but enough) say they loved and were happy with their spouse throughout, happy with their marriage.

An A doesn't happen because of the state of an M. It happens because of the choices of one spouse - whether it be poor coping mechanisms, need for validation, SA, unhappiness with themselves, etc etc etc. No matter how happy a marriage, those issues can still come up


“It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.” - Dumbledore

Posts: 554 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: California
isthismynewlife
♀ Member
Member # 43292
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That said, prior to the affair, I felt like my wife and I were facing life's challenges together, that no matter what happened, even if things got tough, if we were in the down part of the ups and downs, she always had my back. I felt like I could count on her through thick and thin. Now I know I can only count on myself.
I love my wife. I stayed for the kids, but I still love my wife. I just can't count on her.

This says it perfectly.

[This message edited by isthismynewlife at 11:07 AM, August 13th, 2014 (Wednesday)]


Me 42 BS
Him 42 WS
DDay #1 11/28/13 - 7 months EA/a little PA
DDAy #2 8/25/14 - oops - did I forget to mention that it was a 15 month PA/EA? He thought the first version would hurt me less.
Everyday is a struggle.

Posts: 115 | Registered: Apr 2014
bradychu
♂ New Member
Member # 39978
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That said, prior to the affair, I felt like my wife and I were facing life's challenges together, that no matter what happened, even if things got tough, if we were in the down part of the ups and downs, she always had my back. I felt like I could count on her through thick and thin. Now I know I can only count on myself.

I love my wife. I stayed for the kids, but I still love my wife. I just can't count on her.

100% agree. I always looked at marriage as a promise that tied us together completely. Like the bonds of family and blood. As I watched so many marriages around us crumble, I began to feel that we were special. What I learned was that none of that was true.

The hard part for me has been accepting this into my life. I never would have married a woman who was so casual about sex. But, now I have children with one who does...


Posts: 26 | Registered: Jul 2013
Herkemeyer
♂ Member
Member # 36910
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Frankly, women want to be put on a pedestal. That's what the courting process is all about. If men don't treat a woman like the next best thing to sliced bread, he's out. Then it becomes a double edge sword. You don't think I'm special therefore you don't love me...or... You have me on this pedestal and it's too much pressure.

Am I making sense or just rambling incessantly?

[This message edited by Herkemeyer at 11:18 AM, August 13th (Wednesday)]


BH-43
(F?)WW-39 (neznayou)
DDay-08/10/12 TT for 18 Months (I think)
Married 19 years

Posts: 128 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Colorado
Lostcat
♀ Member
Member # 43940
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting to hear your replies, especially BS's opinions on this. I think that BH really does feel that I don't have his back anymore, which is really sad. I don't know if i can ever fix that, i well and truly broke it. Looking back there have been times in our M when I really felt alone and that was exactly the feeling - that BH didn't have my back. It is a lonely feeling and I feel awful that BH is always going to feel like that.

I think my BH really does have a utopic view of things. He is a perfectionist and wants everything to be perfect. He has very high expectations of everything and everyone, so me breaking our M in this way was the worst thing I could do. For him our story was special and our M was not like anyone else's. It's not just the fact that I had an A that's devastating for him, it's also the fact that I did not see our M in the same way as him. I saw it as a regular M like everyone else's. Maybe this was one of my mistakes.

I actually asked BH how his utopic view fits in with him going on a date with someone he met on a plane 2 years ago (nothing happened as he didn't want to hurt me, but I still don't think it's ok.) He said that maybe the man from that couple did the same thing. So I said exactly, but the important thing is that they still loved each other after 76 years.

I think his trouble is not putting me on a pedestal, it's putting our M on a pedestal and whether he can accept one day that I knocked it off. Right now he doesn't know if he'll be able to...



Me WW 40
BH 38
2 kids 4 & 7
DDay 06/01/13, false R til 01/06/14
S til 03/23/14, now in hopeful R
So grateful for this chance

Posts: 57 | Registered: Jul 2014
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I actually asked BH how his utopic view fits in with him going on a date with someone he met on a plane 2 years ago (nothing happened as he didn't want to hurt me, but I still don't think it's ok.

Lostcat:

Are you saying he went on a date with a woman, long before you had an affair?

Well, if so, that changes things. You did not tell us that part of the story.

People can only help if they know the entire story from the outset.

He was wrong to go on that date. It was a serious boundary breach.

Are you guys in MC, and both in IC?

Your husband Needs IC, particularly as it appears he can not see his own faults

[This message edited by seethelight at 1:10 PM, August 13th (Wednesday)]


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1202 | Registered: May 2014
Forged1
♂ Member
Member # 43418
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As far as him putting me on a pedestal, I told him that wasn't fair. Although sweet, it is naive and unrealistic and puts a lot of pressure on me. Nobody deserves to be on a pedestal, we're all human.

Exactly what does the phase 'forsaking all others' mean to you if it doesn't mean choosing your spouse before and above all others?

If you and your spouse make that promise to somebody, have you not put each other on a pedestal by default?


Me: BH - 30s
Her: WW - 30s

Married - 2008
PA with boss for at least 5 months in 2013, possibly longer.
DDay - Feb 2014
Separated, heading to D
==================================
At this stage, I'm pretty much bulletproof.


Posts: 283 | Registered: May 2014 | From: USA
authenticnow
♀ Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As far as him putting me on a pedestal, I told him that wasn't fair. Although sweet, it is naive and unrealistic and puts a lot of pressure on me. Nobody deserves to be on a pedestal, we're all human.

Exactly what does the phase 'forsaking all others' mean to you if it doesn't mean choosing your spouse before and above all others?

If you and your spouse make that promise to somebody, have you not put each other on a pedestal by default?

Don't want to t/j lostcat's thread, but to answer your question:

I'd rather be considered an equal than put on a pedestal. I think putting each other on a pedestal is part of that fairy tale that lostcat's H is dreaming of. It's unrealistic. Nobody is on a pedestal, we're all human, imperfect. I don't want to be up there, it's too much pressure.

As far as putting each other on a pedestal maybe the way you're conveying it, yes, I think my H is awesome, I brag about him to others, I tell him how much I love him. The other day I came home from work late and he was making a salad and getting dinner ready (he never cooks dinner). I told him how awesome he was and how much I appreciated it. I still don't call that putting someone on a pedestal. It's just mutual respect and consideration. I don't know, maybe it's semantics.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 37745 | Registered: Sep 2007
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