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User Topic: Ferguson Missouri
Jeaniegirl
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Member # 6370
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TrulyReconciled, excellent post. However, you ask why someone has to be blamed. That is because a young life is snuffed out in an instant. Something went terribly wrong. Maybe 'blame' is not the right word but a 'reason' has to be sought in hopes it won't happen again.

I watched an interview with an elderly black man and he was very soft-spoken and was very sad about the events happening in his town. He said it's an unwritten rule that people of Ferguson just know they are not allowed to be out after dark in certain areas. He said yelling and cursing by the police is considered the norm.

Changes have to be made. The way they are doing it is not working. I can't imagine not being able to take a walk after dark in my area. Can you?


"Because I deserve better"

Posts: 979 | Registered: Feb 2005
Pentup
♀ Member
Member # 20563
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

T/j: I have lived in the North and the South and have seen racism in both on both sides of the color divide. Bigotry of any kind bothers me, Bigotry against an area of the country irritates me just as much. It is stereotyping and I despise it as much as I do based on religion or color or any other criteria used to stereotype. If you don't like where you live, by all means move. But please, don't expect unicorns in any other place. People are people and for whatever reason (I don't want to debate why or how or really anything) people tend to find reasons to put themselves in one group and others in another. You can cross the lines and you can educate yourself about the differences and that is a good thing.

I grew up in an area with no diversity. Guess what, we still had "differences".

JMHO because when I see people having these discussions and crossing lines and then drawing another (ie Mason Dixon) and those stereotypes not being challenged, it makes me a little and a touch

Praying for peace in Ferguson and across America and the world.


Me- BS
Him- FWS (I hope- F)

Posts: 6583 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Not Oz
TrulyReconciled
♂ Member
Member # 3031
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

However, you ask why someone has to be blamed. That is because a young life is snuffed out in an instant. Something went terribly wrong. Maybe 'blame' is not the right word but a 'reason' has to be sought in hopes it won't happen again.

'Blame' requires no further action.

'Reasons' imply potential for change and the need to act. The 'reasons' for this will come out.

- drug use (?)
- aggression (?)
- poor decision-making (?)
- disrespect for others (?)
- entitlement (?)

Note that these issues could apply to either party.

So while we contemplate the issues surrounding this case, we continue with our lives, tolerating drug use, aggressive behavior, poor decision-making and in taking sides we express disrespect for others and our own entitlement (to be 'right' if nothing else).

Enlightenment is realizing that there really are no 'sides' here after all.

And this is the behavior that many adults are modeling for the youth of today. We should not be so surprised, then.

[This message edited by TrulyReconciled at 1:29 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]


"In a time of deceit, telling the Truth is a revolutionary act."

Posts: 21114 | Registered: Dec 2003 | From: Hell and back, way back :o)
Jeaniegirl
♀ Member
Member # 6370
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would suggest going to the site where money is being raised for Officer Wilson and read the comments of support for him and then come back here and try to say this isn't a racial incident.


"Because I deserve better"

Posts: 979 | Registered: Feb 2005
ReasonableDoubt
♂ New Member
Member # 44577
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JG, so if officer Wilson was attacked, what should he have done?

Not the person you asked but aren't cops trained to attempt to diffuse a situation first before using lethal force? or do these things go from 0-100 with no composure even if the person the cop is trying to detain is unarmed?

Just last week in Carondelet, St. Louis a man suspected of robbery was hiding out in someone's basement and when police showed up he assaulted both officers...and despite breaking an officers hand he's still alive(side note: the suspect in this case is white) http://www.kmov.com/news/crime/Police-Suspect-hides-in-womans-basement-assaults-officers-271009211.html

Perhaps he thought Michael Brown was just another black body -- a big, black body as he was a rather large young man

Being black myself I honestly wouldn't doubt it at this point...


Posts: 3 | Registered: Aug 2014 | From: NY
5454real
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Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JG, thank you for that. Next question. If it is a training issue, where does the responsibility then lie? IDK what the SOP's are for the Ferguson PD. If he followed them, does that not somewhat absolve him?

One comment I will make though is

Perhaps he thought Michael Brown was just another black body

or perhaps he saw a suspected criminal. I don't have any evidence to support that he is or was racist. If it was racially motivated, I'm all for letting him hang out to dry. If he was just some poorly trained officer doing his job to the best of his ability? Then the persecution of this man is unjustified in my mind.


Remember Richard Jewell?


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2827 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Jeaniegirl
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Member # 6370
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I remember Richard Jewel.

I remember a lot of incidents such as Jewel. That's because I've been on the front lines. Probably too long.

Training is necessary and I don't feel they are being trained correctly. It looks as if the unwritten code for new cops is: Shave head, practice using the F-word and work on making people experience fear.


"Because I deserve better"

Posts: 979 | Registered: Feb 2005
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Training is necessary and I don't feel they are being trained correctly. It looks as if the unwritten code for new cops is: Shave head, practice using the F-word and work on making people experience fear.

Sadly, I agree. While I feel that there are a preponderance of good officers out there, there is a whole new breed being trained.

making people experience fear

I don't think race really matters anymore.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2827 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
LydiaE
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Member # 42571
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Protest can be justified, healthy, and productive.

However, a group that chooses to sleep all day and violently riot and loot at night is both a threat to and a burden on society.

Shame on those who encourage and support this type of behavior.


Posts: 78 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: SouthernUSA
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RD, didn't he call MB over to the vehicle first? Wasn't that where the initial altercation took place? I don't think it went from 0-100. However, I do wish that less than lethal force had been used.

Jeaniegirl put it

just shooting is NOT the answer

and I agree. Maybe he could have called backup. Agree there also.

I just don't automatically go from 0-100 and assume racism.

Being black myself I honestly wouldn't doubt it at this point

Based on history, I don't blame you. I just hope and pray for better.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2827 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Jeaniegirl
♀ Member
Member # 6370
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Young white men are definitely treated differently by law enforcement. Why? Because if white parents call and file a complaint about officer conduct, the complaint does NOT get tossed in the garage. Black citizens are told to go home and keep their kids off the street. The largest police force in my state has a policy about complaints against officers. IF the person lodging the complaint does not check the box agreeing to take a lie detector test (if requested) about the complaint, the complaint goes in the trash. And that IS the truth.


"Because I deserve better"

Posts: 979 | Registered: Feb 2005
MissesJai
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Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would suggest going to the site where money is being raised for Officer Wilson and read the comments of support for him and then come back here and try to say this isn't a racial incident.
I've seen some of the comments from his supporters. Disgusting. This is about race. Period.


FWW - 41
Fawk you.....pay me!

Posts: 5906 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
TrulyReconciled
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Member # 3031
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But the reality ...


"In a time of deceit, telling the Truth is a revolutionary act."

Posts: 21114 | Registered: Dec 2003 | From: Hell and back, way back :o)
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let's do a snicker test. 67% of the population of a municipality is black (sorry, I'm from the '60s), but there are only 3 black cops. They have plenty of white cops.

If I ran the Ferguson PD, I'd have been out recruiting black officer years ago. I'd want black & white officers to work together; I'd want white people to work with black & white cps; and I'd want black people to work with black & white cops.

Does it really make sense that only 3 qualified blacks applied for work as police officers in Ferguson? Especially if that's true, it's tremendously fishy.
********************************************

Frankly, I strongly suspect police misconduct, but I have compassion for Officer Wilson (as well as the Brown family). I suspect he fell down a slippery slope, and if the sitch had been different, Michael Brown and he would both still be alive and uninjured.

But that's just tentative. I'll wait for a lot more facts before considering the case closed.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10071 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Undefinabl3
♀ Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not the person you asked but aren't cops trained to attempt to diffuse a situation first before using lethal force?

Unfortunately the rest of society does not have all of the evidence at all. So this question can be hard to answer.

Yes, police are trained in personal protection and there are levels of restraint that they have at their disposal, however, at any point in time (just like a non-uniformed regular every day person) they are well within their right to use deadly force if they feel that their life is being threatened.

We do know that Mr. Brown had just robbed a store and accosted either the clerk or patron of the store. So it wasn't like he was just walking down the street minding his own business when the officer encountered him.

We also know that they did fight and it is reported (not sure if confirmed or not) that Mr. Brown did try to get the officer's gun.

Now, if that were ME and i am not a cop, but if someone went for my gun - you bet your pretty panties that I will use deadly force after the fact. 1. if he's going for the gun, he will have the option of using it. 2. If he has that option, then you damn right i fear for my life.

We also know that he was shot from the front, and not the back - so it's obviously that he was still facing the officer.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
New online find 6/19/14 - shit

Posts: 1729 | Registered: Sep 2012
Red Sox Nation
♂ Member
Member # 26358
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know what happened, but most of the comments I see in the forums I read have judged Officer Wilson guilty because of his race. There's no way in the world he could justify the shooting in their eyes.

The judges in this case seem every bit as bad as those reported on the Wilson support forum (I haven't seen them, but I don't doubt there are racists on both sides heavily invested in this case).

And all the power is on one side here - our attorney general seems to be amongst the judges. As do the popular "news" channels. If Wilson is innocent, the poor guy doesn't have a chance.

I get that history hasn't been kind. I get that there are bad cops out there. That still doesn't justify this call to lynch Wilson. If the witness accounts and the evidence support his story, he should be cleared. If they don't, he should face a trial.


When someone tells you who she is, listen; when someone shows you who she is, listen carefully.

Posts: 1869 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Midwest
lieshurt
♀ Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Red Sox Nation, you hit the nail on the head.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13752 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is about race. Period

Why?

Does Officer Wilson have a history of racist remarks or actions?

I get that history hasn't been kind. I get that there are bad cops out there. That still doesn't justify this call to lynch Wilson. If the witness accounts and the evidence support his story, he should be cleared. If they don't, he should face a trial.

Agreed. Sadly, he will never be safe in that community again regardless of outcome.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2827 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sigh. Ferguson is 67% black and the police force is 97% white. There are only 3 black officers on the force and only 1 black city council member.

I think it's time I bow out of this conversation.


FWW - 41
Fawk you.....pay me!

Posts: 5906 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

if someone went for my gun ...

One of Malcolm Gladwell's books, not to mention people in other fora on this site, addressed this sort of thinking. In fact, people don't reliably predict how they'd react. In particular, I don't think it's easy for most of us to kill another human being. Nor is having a gun a guarantee that it will be used as intended.

Furthermore, training - such as one would expect for police - can teach people how to overcome their gut reactions and do something that is perhaps more effective, merciful, and/or just.

Swaggering is not a crime. We all know too many women find that strong threats aren't enough to get ex-Hs, etc. off the streets. Theft is no longer a capital crime.

Again, I continue to wait for more reliable facts. I don't know enough about what went on between Brown and Wilson.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10071 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
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