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User Topic: Ferguson Missouri
ReasonableDoubt
♂ New Member
Member # 44577
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We do know that Mr. Brown had just robbed a store and accosted either the clerk or patron of the store. So it wasn't like he was just walking down the street minding his own business when the officer encountered him.

That's just it. We don't know this. They released a video of someone who may or may not be Michael Brown. It's been almost a week and they still haven't clarified if it was him in the video or not.

But just as hypothetical let's say that was Brown...Darren Wilson already admitted he didn't know Michael Brown was a suspect at the time of the shooting. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/darren-wilson-identified-killed-18-year-old-michael-brown-article-1.1904539

We also know that they did fight and it is reported (not sure if confirmed or not) that Mr. Brown did try to get the officer's gun

This is in fact still unconfirmed as the only sources that are saying this were Mr. Wilson, and some other unidentified source who was not at the scene.

So yes depending on how you see it he was minding his own business walking down the street...


Posts: 3 | Registered: Aug 2014 | From: NY
TrulyReconciled
♂ Member
Member # 3031
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyone who has been trained in self-defense will tell you that you have precious little time to make that decision if (and I do say if) someone is running at you quickly from a distance of 30-35 feet or so.

It's also very difficult to stop a large person especially if they are on drugs, in fact, tasers have been shown to be often ineffective on people who are really tweaked on Meth or PCP and you can simply forget pepper spray under these circumstances.


"In a time of deceit, telling the Truth is a revolutionary act."

Posts: 21270 | Registered: Dec 2003 | From: Hell and back, way back :o)
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All I can do is keep raising awesome humans who are going to go forth and carry on the lessons I am giving them, and so on, and so on. Situations like these make me feel powerless, until I realize there is a lot of power in raising these just and gentle human beings.

meta, thank you for voicing my own feelings on the situation so eloquently. The "facts" are not known, but my own feelings are present and I need to deal with them, since I cannot control the facts or the issues in a faraway state. Your statement makes me feel like I do have some control and power to make change.

TR, your post with Lady Justice being blind two pages back was brilliant. Thank you for continuing to post.

It has been helpful to me to read this thread. I can see the divide and the perspectives. It helps me to get it here rather than from the round table or "man/woman on the street" interviews on the cable news. To me, the SI crew are real people with established credibility, and I find it easier to consider the comments regardless of how they track with my own thinking. So thank you, especially to those who feel like they aren't being heard. I hear you. I am working to internalize and walk in the shoes. Your voices are important to me.


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5859 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
lieshurt
♀ Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But just as hypothetical let's say that was Brown...Darren Wilson already admitted he didn't know Michael Brown was a suspect at the time of the shooting.

If you go with this hypothetical, then you also have to acknowledge the fact that Brown didn't know that Wilson didn't know. If he did just rob that store, then he would have been on the defensive from the get go and that would explain the aggressive stance he took with Wilson...again, hypothetically.

Personally, I'm still waiting for all of the facts to come out.

[This message edited by lieshurt at 5:42 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]


Walk away from anything or anyone who takes away your joy. Life is too short to put up with fools.

Posts: 13806 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
Grace and Flowers
♀ Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wait....Jeanie says the officer told Brown to "get out of the effin' street"? Were you being literal there? If so, how on earth would any of us know for sure at this point what exact conversation transpired between them? If not, how is putting inflammatory words into one of the parties mouth helping the situation? I'm with sisoon...we just don't know enough yet. What I see is people jumping to conclusions based on the colors if the individuals. Statistically, because of the makeup of the police department, and the city they serve, citizens there will most likely be dealing with white cops. Does that make those cops racist??? NO. There was an article here locally today that said that Ferguson is a " ticketing" town....they make a ton of revenue from traffic tickets, and stuff like jaywalking, obstructing the road, etc. Annoying and stupid. Wrong. Maybe that is what Wilson was doing....looking to write a piss-ant citation. And it went horribly wrong. I just disagree that it was all racially motivated. I agree that the racial makeup of the department is unfortunate. But that does not mean that those officers took the job because they wanted to kill black people!!

And I still maintain that we, the general public, do NOT have all the facts yet. All of this yelling and shouting of rumors and speculation are just fueling the anger. I'm not saying there should NOT be anger....let's just wait and see what the investigation finds. I'm all for the officer being prosecuted if he used undue force. And if the officer WAS injured by Brown, and in those split seconds was afraid for his own life and used lethal force? It's so easy for people to condemn BOTH men. Why can we not wait for the investigation to be done? Why do we have to assume the results of that investigation will be tainted, no matter the outcome?

It is an utter tragedy when a person is killed. I just think it's outrageous for the public to make it a racial issue so quickly. Yes, they are different colors. But that just does not mean that the incident happened because they are different colors.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1174 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's just it. We don't know this. They released a video of someone who may or may not be Michael Brown. It's been almost a week and they still haven't clarified if it was him in the video or not.

I thought it was confirmed 5 days ago that it was MB in the convenience store. It was confirmed by Dorian Johnson as well as his attorney.

[This message edited by Dark Inertia at 7:22 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1280 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
Jeaniegirl
♀ Member
Member # 6370
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Witnesses have said Officer Wilson yelled for both of the boys to get out of the f*cking street. If you have been watching live TV coverage of the protest, you can see the police have no problem yelling out the F-word at every opportunity.


"Because I deserve better"

Posts: 990 | Registered: Feb 2005
Jeaniegirl
♀ Member
Member # 6370
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why do we have to assume the results of that investigation will be tainted, no matter the outcome?

________________________________________________

Look at the background of the prosecutor. His entire family work for the police department. Also, he's started a media fight with the governor. I have problems with arrogant prosecutors.


"Because I deserve better"

Posts: 990 | Registered: Feb 2005
Grace and Flowers
♀ Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, if we want to talk about what is going on during "live media coverage", how about an eyewitness. I've been to Ferguson during two of these long nights. Yes, it's true, I've heard cops swear. However, it's been when a bottle of urine, or some other unknown object has been thrown at them. I've heard a TON more inflammatory rhetoric from the supposed protestors. How is THAT not being heard on tv? Oh wait, it is. Local news did extensive coverage of a New Black Panther leader that spent hours with a bullhorn encouraging the crowd to go TOWARDS the police, while other clergy begged a peaceful protest. The other clergy people were so frustrated at this man's attempt to incite yet more violence.

As for the prosecutor...I guarantee that NO ONE will satisfy EVERYONE. Sadly, it appears there can be no trust. He might be abrasive...doesn't mean he won't do his job correctly. Don't know why we can't wait and see what happens....and THEN respond.

Finally....there are MANY conflicting reports as to what happened/was said that day. Many people are staunchly believing the "side" they want to believe. And hearing only what they want to hear. So the mistrust of each other, the hatred, moves right along. Sad.

Edited to fix typos.

[This message edited by Grace and Flowers at 9:06 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1174 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On my phone, but Grace, your last paragraph,PERFECTLY SAID!!


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1280 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
determinata
Member
Member # 42124
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For the record, here are the comments on the officer's GoFundMe page that have since been taken down:


M 2007. DDay 2008
~10+ CL Prostitutes in 8 months
Divorcing SAWH "ActionsOverWords"
Me: Early 30s BW (also an adult OC) w Baby DS

6 years of TT, hidden STD & false R
Separated 5 mos+; he will not commit
Someday I will be okay


Posts: 288 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 10:20 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This flag is for everyone on this thread.

Please, please...PLEASE take a step back and realize just how much your posts are effecting all our members and regular readers.

Some of you have alienated half of your readers/friends just from making such comments that only state one side of things with no room for other opinions. Nothing on this thread is fact...it's based on whatever news outlet you listen to and/or read.

Michael Brown is not the son of any member here (to the best of my knowledge)so it's probably best to not take this so personal. A young man is dead. A police officer is under investigation. An entire city is at unrest. Let us all follow with interest and educated statements...I have confidence that the truth will come out in due time.

It's threads like this that bring attention to us Staff members whether it belongs here or not. Sure hot topics and current events are wonderful to discuss, but when they degenerate into creating camps and others dismissing opinions...what good is it doing you and this community?


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198255 | Registered: May 2002
h0peless
♂ Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the thread and the emotion in it is about something much deeper and more pervasive than an Isolated incident in Ferguson, MO. I think that just ripped the band-aid off.

Posts: 1731 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
determinata
Member
Member # 42124
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Some of you have alienated half of your readers/friends just from making such comments that only state one side of things with no room for other opinions. Nothing on this thread is fact...it's based on whatever news outlet you listen to and/or read.

This, x1000.


Michael Brown is not the son of any member here (to the best of my knowledge)

But hold on--is Officer Darren Wilson the son of a forum member? Because I am not sure why you are only calling out those who sympathize with Brown.

so it's probably best to not take this so personal.

That's a leap, IMO. Some of us have personally been subject to police discourtesy, disrespect and even violence. And in the parlance of SI, the entire Michael Brown event is intensely 'triggering'. I don't think it does justice to experiences of people to say that we shouldn't take it personally.


A young man is dead. A police officer is under investigation. An entire city is at unrest. Let us all follow with interest and educated statements...I have confidence that the truth will come out in due time.

But, gently, even your confidence that the truth will come out is clear evidence of a bias. So many people (mostly black) are upset because they do not believe that the truth will come out in due time; they do not believe there will be justice in this shooting of an unarmed black man or the next one or the next one or the next one.

It's threads like this that bring attention to us Staff members whether it belongs here or not. Sure hot topics and current events are wonderful to discuss, but when they degenerate into creating camps and others dismissing opinions...what good is it doing you and this community?

I'm going to be honest and say that I don't think threads like this belong on SI. I come here to heal from the disintegration of my marriage and to offer a modicum of support to other people, many of whom I suspect neither look nor think like me, but are hurting. Like a lot of people, I suspect, I tried to read this thread with dispassion but pretty much have ended up making an enemies list of people who I'm not going to debate about this but also will never respond to on SI again. Maybe I'm the only person who felt that alienated, but I doubt it and I think the best overall thing for the infidelity-affected community is to not engage in powder keg conversations about things like race. We clearly have divergent views and some of us, frankly, are adversaries. But that's not why we're on this site.

[This message edited by determinata at 11:20 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]


M 2007. DDay 2008
~10+ CL Prostitutes in 8 months
Divorcing SAWH "ActionsOverWords"
Me: Early 30s BW (also an adult OC) w Baby DS

6 years of TT, hidden STD & false R
Separated 5 mos+; he will not commit
Someday I will be okay


Posts: 288 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
fraeuken
♀ Member
Member # 30742
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but pretty much have ended up making an enemies list of people who I'm not going to debate about this but also will never respond to on SI again.

This is such a low point, I can't even believe this discussion has sunk to this low in response to DS' attempt to calm things down. Completely uncalled for.

To think that it is not possible to have a discussion about events, underlying issues, untruths and labeling people without subsequently having 'enemy lists' assembled, is just beyond comprehension for me. That is exactly the kind of prejudiced, ignorant thinking that causes these horrible events to occur in the first place.


Temporarily independent with the whole world at my feet.

Posts: 1260 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: California
determinata
Member
Member # 42124
Default  Posted: 11:57 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is such a low point, I can't even believe this discussion has sunk to this low in response to DS' attempt to calm things down. Completely uncalled for.

To think that it is not possible to have a discussion about events, underlying issues, untruths and labeling people without subsequently having 'enemy lists' assembled, is just beyond comprehension for me. That is exactly the kind of prejudiced, ignorant thinking that causes these horrible events to occur in the first place.

Uh huh.

DS wanted to know if this was helping the community or hurting and I that was my honest truth. But you are somehow extrapolating that honesty is what got someone shot? Or made people mad? Or what? The "prejudice and ignorance" is in all of the replies that suppose that somehow the poster has inside information into what happened when Michael Brown got shot and so you can kindly keep your outrage and on your side of what is clearly an ideological fence.

I'm done with this thread.

/out

[This message edited by determinata at 12:43 AM, August 22nd (Friday)]


M 2007. DDay 2008
~10+ CL Prostitutes in 8 months
Divorcing SAWH "ActionsOverWords"
Me: Early 30s BW (also an adult OC) w Baby DS

6 years of TT, hidden STD & false R
Separated 5 mos+; he will not commit
Someday I will be okay


Posts: 288 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
FinallyHappy
♀ Member
Member # 308
Default  Posted: 4:26 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

May I request that the thread be closed?

In the old days, someone would second and third that request, and the thread would be closed.

But, gently, even your confidence that the truth will come out is clear evidence of a bias.

No. It isn't.

DS is quite possibly the last person who would be 'biased'.


"Be civil to all; sociable to many; familiar with few; friend to one; enemy to none."

~Ben~

Posts: 7338 | Registered: Jul 2002 | From: WI
FinallyHappy
♀ Member
Member # 308
Default  Posted: 4:50 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((tushnurse))))

I hope you folks are doing okay.


"Be civil to all; sociable to many; familiar with few; friend to one; enemy to none."

~Ben~

Posts: 7338 | Registered: Jul 2002 | From: WI
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 6:17 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HI FH!!!!!!!!


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198255 | Registered: May 2002
authenticnow
♀ Moderator
Member # 16024
Red  Posted: 6:30 AM, August 22nd (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

While we realize this is a current event, the last few pages have turned into hurtful and unnecessary comments. In the best interest of the SI community as a whole, this topic is closed.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 37999 | Registered: Sep 2007
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