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User Topic: Ferguson Missouri
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 9:31 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jeaniegirl -

We have zero tolerance of discussing politics here. No names, jokes, polls or debates are allowed. Violation of this guideline results in losing your profile.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have zero sympathy for the officer who shot Michael Brown. IF he felt threatened by the size of Michael Brown, why not pull out a tazer or stun gun as the police seem to LOVE using those? Why, once again, do we have to see photos of a young, black male (unarmed) lying dead in the street?

And that is where we will have to agree to disagree.
The truth of the matter is the young man assaulted the officer once and rung his bell pretty good as seen by the report of the medical treatment he sought, and he was coming back for more. In that situation, in the matter of fractions of seconds, you act in a way you are trained to. Remove the danger. That's it.

This had zero to do with color. This had to do with being attacked, and being attacked again.

There is a disproportionate number of White cops to the % of African Americans in that community, but the reason for that is not because they don't hire them, it is because there are NONE to hire.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
metamorphisis
♀ Administrator
Member # 12041
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I said this earlier but I will say it again… I just don't even know. Never have I been so firmly planted in the middle on an issue like this. It seems like I turn my head one way and I can understand the arguments of the protesters and victims family, I turn my head the other way and I can see the concerns of the LEO and that he may have legitimately feared for his life.
And when I pull back and look at it all, I see a much much bigger problem, that I was aware of, but this issue has now brought the magnitude to the surface. And I guess it's not going to be solved overnight, or even in my lifetime.
It's overwhelming to watch, I can't imagine how overwhelming it is to live it.



“We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.”... Anais Nin

Posts: 44650 | Registered: Sep 2006
TrulyReconciled
♂ Member
Member # 3031
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Those, especially the media, who are using this incident to push an agenda or simply commit crimes should be ashamed of themselves. A young man's life has been lost, and out of respect for him, if nothing else, the agendas should be dropped and his death should not be used to further unrelated purposes.

Want justice? Everyone go home and wait for it to happen. True justice is a tedious and time-consuming matter. With the national-level scrutiny on this one it's unlikely anything is going to be swept under the rug.

[This message edited by TrulyReconciled at 10:27 AM, August 19th (Tuesday)]


"In a time of deceit, telling the Truth is a revolutionary act."

Posts: 21092 | Registered: Dec 2003 | From: Hell and back, way back :o)
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Want justice? Everyone go home and wait for it to happen. True justice is a tedious and time-consuming matter. With the national-level scrutiny on this one it's unlikely anything is going to be swept under the rug.

Stated perfectly.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Jeaniegirl
♀ Member
Member # 6370
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Moderator #10. I was not aware I've engaged in politics in any of my post on this thread. Other than saying I was cursed out for a political bumper sticker while traveling through St. Louis? I did not name a candidate. I understand and agree with the policies of religion and politics on this board and respect them. We are discussing real issues on this thread, something that needs to be done more often. However, I will be more vigilant with my posts.


"Because I deserve better"

Posts: 979 | Registered: Feb 2005
Jeaniegirl
♀ Member
Member # 6370
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And please point out the thread where I have engaged in politics and I will be happy to edit it.


"Because I deserve better"

Posts: 979 | Registered: Feb 2005
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jeaniegirl -

You have a pm.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
GabyBaby
♀ Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With the national-level scrutiny on this one it's unlikely anything is going to be swept under the rug.

I'm going to have to disagree with this one.
There's national-level scrutiny right now, but how long do you think the in depth investigations or willingness to pursue real change will last once the next news story becomes the national headline? People have very short attention spans.


Me - 40s
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 40s. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - ??

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6440 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gaby, you are probably right. I thought the Redskins had a nice gesture pre-game last night. All the defensive backs came out of the tunnel in a tribute to Michael Brown.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2014/08/19/washington-michael-brown-brandon-meriweather/14271575/

Maybe it will go viral like the Ice Bucket challenge.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3910 | Registered: Dec 2011
Jeaniegirl
♀ Member
Member # 6370
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gaby is right. This will be swept under the rug like every other time. Sad but true.


"Because I deserve better"

Posts: 979 | Registered: Feb 2005
TrulyReconciled
♂ Member
Member # 3031
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm going to have to disagree with this one.
There's national-level scrutiny right now, but how long do you think the in depth investigations or willingness to pursue real change will last once the next news story becomes the national headline? People have very short attention spans.

So is this advocacy for using the situation to promote an agenda only because people are watching?

The kind of change you want has to come from the community being involved with those responsible for upholding the laws that we live under, not from committing additional crimes to make a point or call attention to a cause. Demonstrations have their place, but after that attention span is gone the real change is left to those who are willing to slog it out over the long haul to make a difference.

So what will you do to make a difference?


"In a time of deceit, telling the Truth is a revolutionary act."

Posts: 21092 | Registered: Dec 2003 | From: Hell and back, way back :o)
GabyBaby
♀ Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So is this advocacy for using the situation to promote an agenda only because people are watching?

No, I'm simply stating that once this story is no longer national news, the impetus for change will once again take a back seat to a myriad of other "issues".


Me - 40s
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 40s. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - ??

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6440 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
GabyBaby
♀ Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The kind of change you want has to come from the community being involved with those responsible for upholding the laws that we live under, not from committing additional crimes to make a point or call attention to a cause.

I agree for the most part.

Demonstrations have their place, but after that attention span is gone the real change is left to those who are willing to slog it out over the long haul to make a difference. So what will you do to make a difference?

I also agree with this for the most part.
I don't pretend to have all the answers to this problem, but I can tell you that it is a very real and very long-standing problem (which a lot of people outside the black community poo-poo and/or downplay).

I can tell you that as a black person and the parent of black children, I (and a good many of my friends/relatives) grew up being taught (and teach our own kids) how to handle yourself when (not if) pulled over by the police:

Keep your hands in plain view at all times.
Move slowly.
Do not raise your voice or appear "aggressive".
Etc etc.
...and not because they've done anything wrong, but because I'm trying to increase their chances of surving the experience without landing in jail, ending up on the ground with an officer's knee in their back, or worse simply because their skin color (for some) automatically has their actions viewed as "suspicious behavior".

I dont know of many people outside our community who have to routinely teach their kids these things in order to help them to come home safely.
Hubby (who is white) got a real eye-opening experience with regard to racism when we went to my sister's wedding in Atlanta a few years back. He was livid and that spurred a very interesting conversation between us and other family members.

I can tell you that I've always taught my children that education is a hell of a lot more valuable than the newest pair of Air Jordans or whatever the Kardashians are wearing.
I can tell you that despite neither myself or my kids wearing "thug-like" clothing or behaving in any way that is improper, we have been followed in stores by employees on a number of occasions.

I can tell you that the application of laws are generally applied with more frequency and force within certain communities than others.

So you tell ME how to combat this?

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 6:26 PM, August 19th (Tuesday)]


Me - 40s
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 40s. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - ??

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6440 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
TrulyReconciled
♂ Member
Member # 3031
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Keep your hands in plain view at all times.
Move slowly.
Do not raise your voice or appear "aggressive".
Etc etc.

That's what I taught my child too, and she's not black. I practice the same because it just makes sense.

So you tell ME how to combat this?

I'm not sure that 'combat' is the right word? How about if we start with 'confront?'

We could start by recognizing that some reactions to race issues are simply normal for human beings and have the potential for ameliorating over time, especially when they are exposed through awareness. And some reactions and attitudes on race issues are based purely on ignorant hate, especially group-encouraged, "us-against-them" hate.

Confront the person following you in a store "Excuse me, but are you following me simply because I am black?" Call them on it. I would definitely stick up for you if I saw this going on. Call the store's management office and point out that they have store security following people of color around. Explain that you don't want to describe this practice on Yelp but you will if they don't stop it. Don't quit - this is an area where an individual can make a difference. Now if the reality for that store is that a large percentage of shoplifters caught are people of color (may or may not be true) then you have a confrontation on a different front as well. People have to take responsibility not only for perpetuating stereotypes, but for creating them as well.

I can't mention the name of the person who said this (respecting SI political guidelines):

"Do you know that Negroes are 10 percent of the population of St. Louis and are responsible for 58% of its crimes? We've got to face that. And we've got to do something about our moral standards.....We know that there are many things wrong in the white world, but there are many things wrong in the black world, too. We can't keep on blaming the white man. There are things we must do for ourselves."

Things have changed as a result of that statement. Now if it crosses the guidelines, mods, I'll delete it (I hope not). I don't see this post as being about anything but human nature and the need to understand it, respect it and change it.

Confronting institutional racism can be a lot harder, but again, exposure to the light of day is key. You're not likely going to change the outlook of specific individuals, but groups can call attention to institutional practices that are skewed. Ferguson shakes down a higher percentage of black folks on the street but finds more contraband on the white folks. Make THAT the news (actually, it is, since it has come out as a result of coverage)! Shame on them!

Ultimately, we must all confront our own tendencies to judge others unfairly. Isn't that what taking personal responsibility for ourselves and our own lives is all about? I have a lot of confidence that things are getting better, especially with the younger folks today who largely abhor this sort of hatred and predjudice much more than our generation did, even though we fought hard for human rights.

[This message edited by TrulyReconciled at 12:47 PM, August 19th (Tuesday)]


"In a time of deceit, telling the Truth is a revolutionary act."

Posts: 21092 | Registered: Dec 2003 | From: Hell and back, way back :o)
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm going to have to disagree with this one.
There's national-level scrutiny right now, but how long do you think the in depth investigations or willingness to pursue real change will last once the next news story becomes the national headline? People have very short attention spans.
Count me in with this. There have been multiple incidents like this over the years and very little, if anything, changes.


FWW - 41
Fawk you.....pay me!

Posts: 5890 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Jeaniegirl
♀ Member
Member # 6370
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gaby, once again I feel the need for an *Applause* icon here.


"Because I deserve better"

Posts: 979 | Registered: Feb 2005
GabyBaby
♀ Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TR, I have no issue with you and yes, there need to be shifts in attitude all around.

However, I am not going to spend my entire life confronting the daily bullsh!t that people of color routinely encounter. I used to get fired up in my 20s and march over to "Customer Service" to speak with managers. To no end. It isn't my job to alter other people's (prejudiced) perceptions. My actions as a law-abiding citizen should speak for themselves, but in our current society they are often overlooked simply because of skin color.

Confronting the issue gets old very fast.
I prefer to spend my money elsewhere instead, and I tell anyone and everyone of that experience and hope they follow suit (shop elsewhere).

When SIS and I were in Atlanta, attempting to grab breakfast at the Waffle House (a national chain) we were not served because we are an inter-racial couple. Black couples/families were eating, white couples/families were eating...we were left to sit. We wrote a letter to the chain (no response, btw) and will no longer spend our money there. I personally haven't set foot in a Denny's in over a decade because of their prior history.

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 1:10 PM, August 19th (Tuesday)]


Me - 40s
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 40s. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - ??

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6440 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
JanaGreen
♀ Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, I'm simply stating that once this story is no longer national news, the impetus for change will once again take a back seat to a myriad of other "issues".

I agree with this, with several other unbelievable tragedies that nobody mentions anymore in mind.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6722 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
TrulyReconciled
♂ Member
Member # 3031
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry that I wasn't there in Atlanta - I would have spoken up for you.

I do believe that we ALL would benefit by having more respectful and open-minded conversations about the issues.

Gaby, your comments have changed my attitude and awareness and have increased the likelihood that I will take the opportunity to speak up on this issue when I see the opportunity.

Thank you.

[This message edited by TrulyReconciled at 12:57 PM, August 19th (Tuesday)]


"In a time of deceit, telling the Truth is a revolutionary act."

Posts: 21092 | Registered: Dec 2003 | From: Hell and back, way back :o)
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