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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: What is the Intention of Reconciliation
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

By that I mean what is the ultimate end goal. To me it's always been about building a healthy and satisfying relationship. Sometimes peoples responses around her make me wonder if that isn't the real goal for every one. Perhaps I'm naive to think that it's even possible.

The thing is that every time someone suggests that a BS owns their side of the street and take responsibility for their actions there is strong opposition. It's hard for me to imagine how a healthy relationship is possible when one party is holding on to resentment and using it as justification to treat the other how ever they want.

Maybe I'm missing the point of it all. I only ask because at times I find these forums so helpful but then when I see that side of things I find it all so discouraging. I'm just trying to reconcile it all in my head.


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 541 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
ThoughtIKnewYa
♀ Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The thing is that every time someone suggests that a BS owns their side of the street and take responsibility for their actions there is strong opposition.
I guess you get all types of replies to threads and they come from people in all stages of this. Some are less helpful than others, it's true, but you have to just take what you can use and leave the rest.

Posts: 11791 | Registered: Mar 2008
MovingUpward
♂ Guide
Member # 14866
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Owning your part of the marital problems is needed for a healthy relationship. Often I see waywards not owning their affair choices but blameshift it to other shortcomings in the marriage. Waywards need to own their choice selection. None of this "so and so made me do it" or "such and such caused me to do it". They need to accept that they chose the actions of their affair. If they can't do that then there isn't much to build R on. On the other hand to make a better marriage then the other issues need to be addressed as necessary. The issues will vary from couple to couple. Early on Betrayed spouses can work on their personal issues for example if they are codependent they can work on that. Starting with each individual working on their issues will then lead to a better chance of working through the joint relationship issues.


[This message edited by MovingUpward at 8:01 PM, August 18th (Monday)]


AKA Moo

Think of the haters in your life as sandpaper; they’ll scratch you up time and time again but in the end you’re polished, smooth, and spotless..while they end up useless

We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give.


Posts: 52993 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Big Blue Nation
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Logic and intuition argue that when a system, like an M, breaks down, all parts of the system are somewhat responsible. I think a lot of the reaction you mention is a reaction to the normal BS response that his W must have cheated because of something he did or didn't do. Besides, if the BS is responsible, the BS can control the outcome.

I think it's pretty natural for people who are just learning that the BS is NOT responsible for the A to over-generalize the lesson, and I think that's what you see often.

It brings us back to a basic SI principle - take from SI what makes sense to you and ignore the rest.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10570 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To me it's always been about building a healthy and satisfying relationship
Me too. This is what R meant to me.

every time someone suggests that a BS owns their side of the street and take responsibility for their actions there is strong opposition
I think that I would fall into your categorization of the *oppositional* side. This may be colored by my own experience, but I so often see BS' *owning* marital issues that may not be theirs to own, that I feel the need to throw the caution flag. My own WH, and many that I read about, are all-to-ready to point out *issues* in the marriage that are really just contrived backdrops for the wayward behavior.

It's hard for me to imagine how a healthy relationship is possible when one party is holding on to resentment and using it as justification to treat the other how ever they want.
There is a lot of damage done when betrayal has occurred. There is going to be resentment, it is unavoidable. But when there is a remorseful WS involved, continued mistreatment equates to *kicking Bambi*. And most BS' are dying to have a remorseful WS and have no desire to kick Bambi. Most BS' want life to return to *normal*. I have been around SI for a while now, and I can tell you that I have seen very few instances where a BS is treating their WS like shit *just because*.

The A needs to be dealt with. The WS' issues need to be addressed. Imo, Both of those things need to happen before any type of marriage-rebuilding can occur.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 9:31 PM, August 18th (Monday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8181 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
tl502
♀ Member
Member # 42607
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that there can be some confusion on this forum because everyone is in such a different place at any one time. A normal response from a bs just after dd isn't necessarily a normal response 2 years out. Plus everyone's situation is so different anyway.

I believe there is a big difference between recovery, reconciliation, and working through old marriage issues that may have made the marriage vulnerable. Just after dd, I was in crisis mode. There was no way I could have dealt with the marital issues that my h and I work on now. I wouldn't have even considered trying to work on better communication when I was in survival mode.

The end game for my h and me is a strong m that meets both of our needs and gives us the satisfaction of a committed relationship. That was always the end game, but neither of us could really see how to get there until we had fully worked through the recovery and reconciliation phases. Throw in a little fun and we may have a winner here.


Married 30 yrs.
dd1 9/10/2011 ea/pa
DD2 3/25/2013 same ow, never stopped email and phone contact.
Putting the past behind us and moving forward together

Posts: 369 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: tl502
BtraydWife
♀ Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Call me kooky but I get the feeling you might be referring to me.

We all have different experiences, different viewpoints, and different approaches in regards to infidelity.

My view of reconciliation is no different than yours. I can't figure out why you might think it would be.

This isn't a prison or a place of employment. I'm not the boss, the warden, the babysitter, or his mother. Never wanted those jobs, you bet I resented being thrust into them, but only for as long as he kept me there. R isn't possible with resentment, by either party. It has to be worked through. That's only possible with a remorseful ws.

I had a great marriage before my husband cheated and I'm eager to get back to that. My husband didn't cheat because of marriage problems. That's not why any ws cheats.

My ws cheated because of personal problems. Basically he was unhappy with himself, didn't know how to help himself and was too scared to communicate it. In an effort to resolve those feelings plus a need to avoid that they were actual problems, he created and compounded so much pain for everyone involved.

When he became remorseful he focused his efforts on healing. He stopped fighting against me and started fighting for our marriage. We actually got along and agreed on most things in our life. It was that way before his As and it's become that way again. Only now he knows himself better, likes himself better and has a confidence he has only before pretended to have.

My marriage sure isn't better because he cheated. We've lost things that can't be returned. And I don't mean material things. My husband isn't better because he cheated. He had a difficult time facing the amount of pain his behavior caused. He's better because he commited to healing and stayed true to that commitment.

My ultimate goal in posting to people is to help healing happen. I don't see ws bashers. I see people who want real R. I see people fighting for it every day.

I believe it's useless and distracting to work on a marriage that isn't being honored by the ws. It's also harmful for the bs. It leads to rugsweeping. Rugsweeping isn't healing and it isn't R. I stick by that. I can't imagine ever changing that position. That's not because I'm closed minded, it's because healing is my goal. Healing with or without the marriage. Sometimes the healthiest thing for a bs to do, is to leave the marriage.

Now when a ws commits to R and stops all A rated behavior and activities, then you are talking about a totally different situation. Then beautiful things can happen. And I believe this is what most bs want, but getting that is only half in their control.

I have never thought a bs was justified to treat their ws however way they want. That doesn't make any sense and it won't lead to healing.

In fact I'm having trouble finding the words to respond to another thread with. I believe the ws is being taken advantage of by the bs in a very harmful way. I'm at a loss with how to open that dialogue.

So no, a bs can not treat a ws however they want but there is no marriage to work on if the ws is still engaged in A behavior. None of the marriage issues matter until the A behavior stops.

Nobody else has to agree with that. And that's ok.


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 2381 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Call me kooky but I get the feeling you might be referring to me.

Believe it or not it wasn't really about you at all. Our conversation was kind of the proverbial straw that lead to this thread, but really I've had other conversations that were much more concerning. We didn't see eye to eye, but our discussion was civil and I just felt like you weren't understanding what I was saying and reading more into it then was there. At the same time you've always seemed rational and respectful.

I've had other conversations where people have gotten angry, aggressive or even insulting. I've seen BSes use the affair as an excuse to be abusive and even violent without remorse. When I see these kinds of things in just found out, divorce or even general discussion I get it. When I see them in Reconciliation it really disturbs me. I stopped posting for several months because it bothered me so bad. I only came back when we had a fight and I throw the affair in her face completely unjustified.

I almost waited a few days to post this so you wouldn't think it was about you. I probably should have. I apologize for that.


.....

Reading through everyone's responses I'm reminded how far off normal my experience was. My WW was instantly remorseful. There was no blame shifting. Several times I tried to ask her what was wrong with me or our marriage that lead to this. She would always say that I was a wonderful husband and that she felt uncomfortable because things had gotten too good and too calm and she wasn't sure how to handle it. She started therapy right away.

In several ways I feel like I've been a worst husband post A. I feel like it's more of a struggle not to lose my temper, and I have said and done things that I've had to apologize for more int he last 6 months then in the previous 7 year combined. For me the hardest thing for me to deal with is how the affair has changed me.

I guess this prospective leads me to look at things from a different angle then a lot of people. I get it being in a constant struggle with a sneaky remorseful BS has got to be hell. I don't think I could even do it to be honest. But I think what discourages me is that when I'm looking for support and advice I'm looking for support and advice about me and what I often get is accused of rug sweeping. That's not the case at all, my wife is working on her stuff contently. That part of it is out of my hands. I'm more concerned with not letting her affair make me a worse man.


but you have to just take what you can use and leave the rest.


It brings us back to a basic SI principle - take from SI what makes sense to you and ignore the rest.

Thank you both for that. It really resonated with me. A long time ago a coach once said the same thing to me, and it served me well as a wrestler. I should apply it here.

Thank you everyone...


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 541 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The thing is that every time someone suggests that a BS owns their side of the street and take responsibility for their actions there is strong opposition. It's hard for me to imagine how a healthy relationship is possible when one party is holding on to resentment and using it as justification to treat the other how ever they want.

Well, not all affairs occur because of issues with the betrayed spouse.

So perhaps you need to research that and let go of that assumption.

No marriage is perfect, but sometimes there are really no issues that contributed to the affair.

A lot of the issues are often manufactured by a selfish spouse.

Maybe in your case, there were issues and now that you realize you contributed to the affair, now you need to address those issues.

Sometimes the husband or wife is having a mid life crisis or they are just being selfish cake eaters or they feel entitled to have an affair because other people do it and it sounds like fun.

My spouse now admits that his affair had nothing to do with me.

He unfortunately was going out with some friends who were having affairs and he now admits that he felt like he was missing out on life.

So, I think people have affairs for different reasons.

Perhaps in your case, your wife had good reason.

With that said, you might want to google trauma bonding.

It's similar to Stockholme syndrome, only involves a family member.

Are you sure the reasons your wife gave for the affair are valid or are you simply trauma bonded an all too willing to embrace the person who emotionally abused you?

Initially my spouse rewrote the marital history as a way to absolve himself of guilt.

And, Initially I was all to eager to accept blame.

It was only after years of MC and IC for both of us, that my wayward finally admitted that he felt entitled to have an affair, and thought he would not get caught and no one would get hurt.

Now he realizes how foolish that type of thinking was.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@seethelight

Please read my second post. You made several assumptions that are way off the mark.

Let me be clear I do not believe there is anything, not one thing, that a BS can do that causes and or justifies an affair. There are things that BS can and do do that contribute to an unhealthy relationship over all. In my case I've been more likely to do these things post affair then I was before. I do seem to see a trend in that direction for most BSes. That is what I'm talking about. Not the affair itself but the healing that follows or does not follow.


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 541 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reading through everyone's responses I'm reminded how far off normal my experience was. My WW was instantly remorseful. There was no blame shifting. Several times I tried to ask her what was wrong with me or our marriage that lead to this. She would always say that I was a wonderful husband and that she felt uncomfortable because things had gotten too good and too calm and she wasn't sure how to handle it. She started thera

Wodnships:

Well I am glad to hear that your wife was so willing to accept blame, but that is not typical based on the posts here.

I did not make ANY assumptions about your marriage as indicated by the use of the word modifier MAYBE.

Maybe means I am not sure. So no assumption was made.

There are things that BS can and do do that contribute to an unhealthy relationship over all. In my case I've been more likely to do these things post affair then I was before. I do seem to see a trend in that direction for most BSes. That is what I'm talking about.


Sadly the consequence of an affair is that it changes the loyal spouse.

Yes, THE AFFAIR, can create problems where non existed prior.

For example, My husband is no longer allowed the freedom to go out with the boy or on men's vacations.

He used those as cover stories to cheat.

Some would say that creates an unhealthy atmosphere due to my waywards lack of freedom.

But that is my condition for R.

Some conditions MAY appear to be unhealthy when take out of context, but in context they make more sense.

So, you see unhealthy things as unhealthy but others see it as a justifiable consequence of an affair.

By your own admission you say you feel you are doing unhealthy things, but you can't project the unhealthiness of your chosen behavior onto others.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, you see unhealthy things as unhealthy but others see it as a justifiable consequence of an affair.

Name calling, snarky remarks, hitting, throwing things, destroying objects. I have seen someone claim each of these was justified by the affair. These things are never healthy or justifiable.

But your response is illustrating my point exactly. I talk about a BS taking ownership for the things they do that can be damaging to the marriage and instantly I'm blaming them for the affair (sorry perhaps I'm blaming them for the affair.) and making assumptions.


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 541 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Name calling, snarky remarks, hitting, throwing things, destroying objects. I have seen someone claim each of these was justified by the affair. These things are never healthy or justifiable.

Well, I agree they are not healthy, but post affair they are extremely typical.

I did call my husband obnoxious names after the affair. I no longer do that. But for about six months when we would argue, and he was engaging in TT, I would call him a liar and thief.

He complained to the MC about that, and do you know what he said?......He told my wayward to just take it. That the names I called him were factual. He did steal money from me and he did lie to me, repeatedly.

But your response is illustrating my point exactly. I talk about a BS taking ownership for the things they do that can be damaging to the marriage and instantly I'm blaming them for the affair (sorry perhaps I'm blaming them for the affair.) and making assumptions.

I am simply having a discussion. I think you are misguided in your opinion but that is only my opinion.

So feel free to disregard my opinion, if it upsets you or even if you simply disagree.

I certainly don't feel you are blaming other BSs.

I am on YOUR SIDE Wodnships.

What I feel is that PERHAPS you are being to hard on yourself for engaging in behaviors post affair that most MCs would consider normal.

It takes 2 to five years to heal from an affair.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What I feel is that PERHAPS you are being to hard on yourself for engaging in behaviors post affair that most MCs would consider normal.

Maybe I'm being a little hard on myself, but I tend to do that anyway. At the same time just because something is normal doesn't mean we shouldn't recognize it as non productive and try to change the behavior to something more productive.

Let's take a simple example. Most recently (a couple weeks ago) I throw the affair in my wife's face in a fight that really had nothing to do with the affair. In my mind it felt like the same mentality that lead her to the affair, but it really had no other connection. This doesn't make me a bad person, but it is certainly not helpful in my stated goal. ie having a healthy fulfilling relationship. Just because it's something that is common doesn't mean I have to accept it and expect it. I feel that if I really do want a healthy relationship I need to put an effort into not doing unhealthy things. Does that make sense?

So often just the act of recognizing that I (or another WS) crossed a line is treated like a negative thing.

If you still think that I'm misguided, please explain. Because I really don't see what I am missing.


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 541 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
BtraydWife
♀ Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wodnship- It is a wonderful that you didn't experience the games, the blaming, the continued lies and cheating after dday. That is very uncommon and it speaks a lot about your wife.

You missed the part that many people describe as worse than the actual cheating.

I agree with that as being worse. As horribly painful as his cheating was, the next 3 years of him half ass committing to R were what almost led to our divorce, not the cheating. When they do that, it is beyond cruel. It rots your soul. Sometimes you start believing their hurtful words. It is so destructive.

Far too many people are caught in that in between with an unremorseful spouse. I know I just wanted him to straighten up and start behaving like the person I believed him to be. I allowed the pain to continue because I wasn't ready to give up on us.

At some point I had enough. When I was finally willing and able to kick him out of my life he saw the light. It was because before then he was still with me and the turmoil in our home wasn't enough of a consequence for him to face his issues. Actually losing me is what it took for him to be brave enough to face the mess he created.

Your wife showed great bravery and integrity by accepting responsibility for her actions and immediately beginning work to resolve her issues.

How far along she is with that and if she is making enough progress is only measured by you. You are good with what's going on or you aren't.

Someone who is kinda good, isn't good. Sometimes it takes strangers to point out the feelings they express. Like someone saying their ws is remorseful but they were given the impression not to bring up the A and that's not ok with the bs. That's not remorseful and sometimes they need someone who is not emotionally involved to say it.

Some people might think complaining that enough isn't being done means they aren't thankful for what IS changing. That's a loop some get stuck in. I think it shows the conflict avoider in the bs. And if something like that is going on, then yeah, the bs could use some IC too.

There are a lot of people in the fight of their life for their marriage. They are walking that line between enforcing a consequence and accepting something unacceptable. Many just wish a consequence wasn't needed.

I can't tell you how many times my husband called me crazy. Yelling it in my face. Telling me I was avoiding my problems by not going to IC.

I spent many years in IC for my behavior and FOO issues. I didn't cheat, but I wasn't a healthy person. It toom hard work to get through that time. I stopped going a short time after we married but he was with me when I started and he was a wonderful support when I needed it.

Sometimes I wonder just what he would have done after dday if I had bought his load of crap. That I needed mental help, that I had a problem. Yeah I had a problem. I was married to an asshole. I also felt like he was using my past and any possible insecurities I had about it, to pressure me. I was not ok with that but thankfully I could see that behavior a mile away.

That jerking around to try and control the bs is very, very common. It's so damaging. I try and help people realize when that might be going on so they can keep that grip on their sanity and push to be treated better.

Your apology wasn't needed but I appreciate it. I have a pretty thick skin. Even if this was in response to just me, I was ok with that.

Let's get back to helping some people.


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 2381 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So often just the act of recognizing that I (or another WS) crossed a line is treated like a negative thing.

If you still think that I'm misguided, please explain. Because I really don't see what I am missing.

I don't think you're misguided, and justifying post-A behavior can be a problem in a good number of cases (i.e., the "get out of jail free" card mentality).

That said, because of your situation, the nuance you're missing (because it doesn't sound like you encountered it), is that a great many BS's experience a WS who is so deep into their own justifications that they've cast their spouse into a role that has no actual bearing on who their spouse actually is.

In short, they start leveling all of these "why I did it" criticisms at their spouse that exist only in the WS's mind, and those are the things they're demanding that the BS change.

I'm all for self-improvement if and when the BS agrees that the issue identified is truly an issue, but for at least the first year, when my wife would come up with gripes out of that affair mindset, I would look at myself and experience legitimate cognitive dissonance. In other words: that doesn't sound like me, that's not something I've ever done, and I can't imagine any circumstances under which I'd say/do what you're telling me I do "all the time".

I think a BS needs to be very careful in taking self-improvement advice for the first year from someone who has proven through their actions that they are willing to destroy you to feed their own self-validation agenda. Often, the WS is an unreliable narrator of their own life, their own experience, and even their own selfhood.

Where things resonate with your own self-awareness, look at that stuff, by all means.

And where it doesn't, apply the SI motto to your dealings with your spouse: take what you need and leave the rest.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6750 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As I look through these last couple of posts I find it really disheartening. I honestly don't think I would have made it a month in that environment.

I'm impressed with the resolve of those of you who have. It's easy to forgive someone who's acting to change the situation. I don't know how it's even possible to forgive someone who doesn't take accountability for their actions.

It also makes me wonder what is different about my wife.


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 541 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
MissedRedFlags
♀ Member
Member # 43344
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The thing is that every time someone suggests that a BS owns their side of the street and take responsibility for their actions there is strong opposition.

Wodnships--- Here's an analogy for you: if someone goes to the bank to make a deposit and gets shot as part of a hold-up, do you then blame that person for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Of course you wouldn't. You don't blame the victim. Do you?

Sometimes the husband or wife is having a mid life crisis or they are just being selfish cake eaters or they feel entitled to have an affair because other people do it and it sounds like fun.

Seethelight---totally agree with you!

Overheard my WH tell another attorney at the kids' soccer evaluations on Saturday that a client is hesitant to go to court because of fear that the client's affair will come out. Made me dwell on the time the MC asked if WH worked in a climate of entitlement regarding affairs. All---every single attorney in the practice---have either had an affair or their spouse has. Now, to hear him speak to another attorney--nudge, nudge, wink, wink--client afraid mistress will be revealed. Makes me believe the MC was on to something in terms of the sense of entitlement theory.

A lot of the issues are often manufactured by a selfish spouse.

Again, Seethelight---I totally agree. My WH claimed soon after dday that we were arguing all the time and that's why he had the affair. While our marriage was not perfect---we were most definitely not arguing all the time but I was devastated and for awhile believed him. Then it occurred to me---wait a minute---I do not have the magical ability to control his penis. My actions or behavior in no way control him. He controls himself. His actions are his choice. The affair was his choice.


Me: BS 41
Him: WH 40
3 year LTA
DDay: June 4, 2013
Married 16 years
2 kids aged 9 & 7
Trying to decide if R is best for me

Posts: 201 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Florida
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@redflag

From my post above: Let me be clear I do not believe there is anything, not one thing, that a BS can do that causes and or justifies an affair. There are things that BS can and do do that contribute to an unhealthy relationship over all. In my case I've been more likely to do these things post affair then I was before. I do seem to see a trend in that direction for most BSes. That is what I'm talking about. Not the affair itself but the healing that follows or does not follow.

To follow up on your analogy. If that person in the hold then tracks down the bank robber and chose to take their money back at gun point they are responsible for the crime they have committed are they not?

This is what I find so frustrating. It's possible to recognize that a BS did something wrong without using it as a justification for the affair. But any time someone says "Hey XYZ wasn't the right reaction because..." Instantly someone thinks it's being used as a justification.

I get that many WS have done this, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the world is doing it. Sometimes something is bad for a marriage completely independent from the affair. Can we not even talk about those things?


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 541 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
MissedRedFlags
♀ Member
Member # 43344
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wodnships---
There are things that BS can and do do that contribute to an unhealthy relationship over all. In my case I've been more likely to do these things post affair then I was before.

Hugs to you. It's ok to mad at your wife. You've been hurt. It's normal.


Me: BS 41
Him: WH 40
3 year LTA
DDay: June 4, 2013
Married 16 years
2 kids aged 9 & 7
Trying to decide if R is best for me

Posts: 201 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Florida
Topic Posts: 50
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