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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Being presumed guilty
iAmAMess0809
Member
Member # 40964
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm having a rough night suddenly. It was a decent day, but tonight while getting ready for bed, my BW checked my Facebook and saw that several days before my affair with an ex-GF, I had looked up a number of people I use to know on Facebook, one being another ex-GF - she was also a friend before and after I dated her, which was just about a month or two. She believes I was affair shopping, and it was no coincidence that just days before I started an affair, I was looking up women from my past.

This does look bad. It does matter because my affair started based on a certain event that triggered something in me - we went to a hospital to see a family member who had just given birth. It was a hospital that, when I was 18, my then-GF and later AP, gave birth to a child we gave up for adoption. If I was "affair shopping" several days earlier, that would be a pretty big lie.

The thing is, I wasn't affair shopping. I was never going to contact any of them, and there were absolutely no thoughts of an affair when I looked them up. I am 100% certain of this. She says I am lying to myself, but I know I'm not. I was just looking to see how they were doing, as they were friends I had lost touch with over the years

She doesn't believe me though. And I get it...I really do. I don't know where to go from here. She won't/can't choose to trust me on this, because I have lied so many times.

This is a first. In the past, when she confronted me about something, I had been lying. The obvious next step was to tell the truth. But in this case, I already am.

I don't know where to go from here on this.


Me: WH, 32
Wife: BW, 31 (SoVeryTired5)
Affair during March/April 2013
DDay: April 30, 2013 (Admitted EA)
Full Disclosure: October 11, 2013 (Admitted PA)
Hoping to reconcile


Posts: 65 | Registered: Oct 2013
Scubachick
♀ Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think there is much you can do about it except decide if you can forward like that.There is a situation where I don't believe my WH either. It's frustrating for both of us. He sticks to his story and I stick to mine...that he's in denial. We've agreed to disagree. I expect him to respect that I think he's in denial and to tread lightly around that topic. I don't want him to agree with me, just respect the way I see it and I try to respect that he see's differently. That's the best I can do for now. Do you think you guys can agree to disagree?

Posts: 709 | Registered: Jul 2013
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 1:01 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a first. In the past, when she confronted me about something, I had been lying. The obvious next step was to tell the truth. But in this case, I already am.

I don't know where to go from here on this.

Just keep telling the truth, no matter what. The point isn't whether someone believes you or appreciates what you have to say. You tell the truth so that you have integrity and self-respect. That makes everything easier.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17787 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Neznayou
♀ Member
Member # 40654
Default  Posted: 2:27 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are you telling the truth? There were several times after DDay when I stuck to my guns, convinced that I was telling the truth, but it turns out, I wasn't. I just hadn't dug deep enough to acknowledge the reality of the situation. One example: I was completely convinced that I had not initiated the PA; I believed that I went along with it after OM started it. I was dead wrong. It took a while to crack through that one and take responsibility for the fact that I had indeed orchastrated the Affair. I'm not saying you are lying about why you were looking up people on Facebook. I am suggesting that maybe, just maybe, there was a seed of discontent (or something else) that prompted you to look them up.


Me: WW
Caught at AP's house: 10 Aug 2012
Admitted PA: 12 Aug 2012
TT ended: Jan 2014

"Power, Lincoln, real power comes not from hate, but from truth."


Posts: 305 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: America to Europe
iAmAMess0809
Member
Member # 40964
Default  Posted: 6:53 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will keep on telling the truth regardless of whether she believes me or not.

Scubachick - I'm not sure she'll be okay with agreeing to disagree. I am, but she sees it as another lie, and she's done with lies. She has made that clear.

Neznayou - I am certain I am telling the truth. I was not looking them up to see who I could have an affair with. I didn't contact any of them and had no intention of doing so. There is a reason I chose the AP that I did, and that I contacted her the day after going to that hospital.

Right now, I'm dying on the inside a little. Typically, in the morning at this time, our 5yo daughter wakes up, comes running to our room, goes to my side of the bed, gets in and cuddles up next to me. I just heard her run to the room, only I'm not there. Instead, I'm on the couch because my past actions have left me with no credibility for when I need it.

I'll need to snap out of this. It's going to be easy to slip into a "feel sorry for myself" day, which won't help anything.


Me: WH, 32
Wife: BW, 31 (SoVeryTired5)
Affair during March/April 2013
DDay: April 30, 2013 (Admitted EA)
Full Disclosure: October 11, 2013 (Admitted PA)
Hoping to reconcile


Posts: 65 | Registered: Oct 2013
apathetic1
♀ Member
Member # 44446
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are not alone. My WH had a LTA for 5 years with an ex gf he looked up on Facebook.

To me though, it doesn't matter who looked who up or wether or not it was orchestrated. It happened!

Because it was an ex gf, I am certain I never mattered, our marriage meant nothing, and he settled for the wrong person.

In her defence, it is the crappiest feeling in the world to feel second best.

If your wife really is #1, you need to live every second of every day proving this to her. One day she may believe it.

Best of luck!


BW - me 40's
WS - him 40's

How does that quote go "fail me once...shame on" ... oh who cares. Once is too many we had vows!!


Posts: 62 | Registered: Aug 2014
islesguy
♂ Member
Member # 38090
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iAmAMess0809,

The lies and betrayal means that you will probably always be presumed guilty, I know I always will be. I also know that as much as it upsets me because I am being truthful now, I deserve to be guilty until proven innocent. Which unfortunately is usually not possible because you can't prove a negative. You will probably need to learn to live like this. Even if your BS tries to trust you again, the innocence is gone and it will likely never be unconditional again.


Me: WH
Father of 3 beautiful girls

* I am a RS (Recovering Scumbag)
* Do as I say, NOT as I did. :-(
* I acknowledge the grace I have received. I know do not deserve it.


Posts: 228 | Registered: Jan 2013
iAmAMess0809
Member
Member # 40964
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, after giving it some time, she isn't any more willing to believe me. She says I don't get it and need to dig deeper.

I'm frustrated. Mostly at myself. I need credibility right now, and I have none. She said that if we had two functioning cars (one is not working right now), I would have had to leave last night. That was the first time she had said that.

I don't want to go anywhere. I want to be with my wife and my children. I am devastated that she said that. I am really struggling today.


Me: WH, 32
Wife: BW, 31 (SoVeryTired5)
Affair during March/April 2013
DDay: April 30, 2013 (Admitted EA)
Full Disclosure: October 11, 2013 (Admitted PA)
Hoping to reconcile


Posts: 65 | Registered: Oct 2013
trip3
♂ Member
Member # 44441
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm a few months out from D Day #2, and every single thing I do or say suddenly has another connotation. Everything I look at on the internet has a double meaning, and nothing I say can be considered truthful. At least from where my wife is sitting. It's shitty and it sucks, but it comes with the territory of being a wayward. You've broken their trust, so how can you be trustworthy?

To put it another way: you have a group of people over to your house and someone steals the nice silverware. If one of your friend's is a known thief, you're going to suspect them. You're not going to believe them when they deny having stolen your silverware.

It'll get better eventually. Just keep telling the truth. All of the truth. I messed up big time last time by not being 100% truthful about things. It was trickle truth all day every day. Don't be that person, be the 100% truthful person.


Me: WH 34
Her: BW 30 (Margypan)
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” -Ernest Hemingway

Posts: 53 | Registered: Aug 2014
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was looking up women from my past.

This does look bad.

Your right, it does look bad. I even believe you that you may not have been "affair shopping" BUT you were guilty of having bad boundaries. Looking up women of your past is a recipe for a disaster. On it's own it may sound innocent enough but it can set the stage for mistakes.

You may have a specific why with the hospital visit that sparked the affair, but your bad boundaries that led up to that incident were likely also a contributing factors. Until you are able to acknowledge these contributing factors to your why and work to addressing them, your BW will not feel fully safe. Whether it is technically called "affair shopping" or not is really not the big issue. Making a committment to having better boundaries going forward is the big issue.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
iAmAMess0809
Member
Member # 40964
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your right, it does look bad. I even believe you that you may not have been "affair shopping" BUT you were guilty of having bad boundaries. Looking up women of your past is a recipe for a disaster. On it's own it may sound innocent enough but it can set the stage for mistakes.

You may have a specific why with the hospital visit that sparked the affair, but your bad boundaries that led up to that incident were likely also a contributing factors. Until you are able to acknowledge these contributing factors to your why and work to addressing them, your BW will not feel fully safe. Whether it is technically called "affair shopping" or not is really not the big issue. Making a committment to having better boundaries going forward is the big issue.


Yes, to be clear, knowing what I now know and have learned about boundaries, I wouldn't look them up again. This was from pre-affair, when boundaries weren't an issue because I had never come close to crossing any. In light of my affair, this takes on a whole new meaning of course. I get that and I have committed to the boundaries my wife has.

The problem here is that my wife views this as yet another lie. She, at least for now, is set on that view, and she's been through too many lies to accept another. She is protecting herself, and I understand that.


Me: WH, 32
Wife: BW, 31 (SoVeryTired5)
Affair during March/April 2013
DDay: April 30, 2013 (Admitted EA)
Full Disclosure: October 11, 2013 (Admitted PA)
Hoping to reconcile


Posts: 65 | Registered: Oct 2013
Macsecond
♀ Member
Member # 43972
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The problem here is that my wife views this as yet another lie. She, at least for now, is set on that view, and she's been through too many lies to accept another. She is protecting herself, and I understand that.

Acknowledge to her that you know that. This shows some empathy that you're looking to understand her feelings on it and are not defensive.

Continue to not lie, and in fact, be as open and transparent as possible, without her asking. If you want to be trusted, it will take time, and continued practice in showing her that you can be trusted. Give her passwords, show her all you're doing. Not sure if something is kosher or if she'd view it as wayward? Let her know. Don't let her find out eventually, but tell her instead. "I was curious about xyz and thought I'd look it up." Her finding this when her trust in you has already been broken instead of you bringing it to her makes it look like you've got something to hide.

Be aware of what her triggers are or where she might be wary. If, like this instance, it's something you weren't aware at the time was a source or pain or an example of poor boundaries, even though your intentions may not have been bad, talk about it together. "I can see because of my past actions, that you would would be wary of me looking up these people on Facebook. I've <taken these measures... unfriended them/blocked them/etc etc> and now know that it was inappropriate. Is there anything else I can do that would make you feel better about the situation?"

I don't know. I'm still working on identifying and getting past my own wayward thinking and behaviour.


Me - WW (38)
Him - BH (36)
Married 14 years.
2 young kids
DDay - July 4, 2014 (I confessed to 5 month OEA)
In IC and MC, working on R.

Posts: 172 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Canada
BtraydWife
♀ Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you agree with this statement?

When you looked up these girls on facebook, you did not have solid boundaries for yourself. This is evidenced by starting an affair with another girl you looked up on facebook, just a few days later.

Do you feel that is accurate?


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 1862 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iamamess:

I am sorry your wife is distrustful.

I think that must be extremely frustrating.

Gently, Perhaps you are not lying but are in denial.

Denial is a powerful defense mechanism. Google it.

It is obvious based on your search that you were thinking about old girlfriends. Why?

Perhaps you weren't consciously affair shopping, but it was something brewing in your unconscious mind.

Can you entertain this thought for awhile and really scrutinize it as a possibility before discarding it?

Or, perhaps you can delve into it in IC, if you are in IC?

Also, if it was denial, it was an old behavior that you have now discarded.

Maybe you can convince your wife that you are not telling her a lie, by discarding defensiveness long enough to at least consider denial a possibility, and reassuring her that you are no longer interested in ex girlfriends.

In some affair books, they do discuss looking up ex girlfriends as a prelude to an affair.

So your wife's distrust is her own normal defense mechanism.

Someone in denial is not consciously aware that they are using the defense mechanism of denial.

If it was denial, it is still a past behavior. And that's the important factor.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1361 | Registered: May 2014
iAmAMess0809
Member
Member # 40964
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When you looked up these girls on facebook, you did not have solid boundaries for yourself. This is evidenced by starting an affair with another girl you looked up on facebook, just a few days later.

Do you feel that is accurate?

Yes, it is just the implied connection between the two I disagree with.


Me: WH, 32
Wife: BW, 31 (SoVeryTired5)
Affair during March/April 2013
DDay: April 30, 2013 (Admitted EA)
Full Disclosure: October 11, 2013 (Admitted PA)
Hoping to reconcile


Posts: 65 | Registered: Oct 2013
iAmAMess0809
Member
Member # 40964
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is obvious based on your search that you were thinking about old girlfriends. Why?

That is not accurate. One was an ex GF. The others were not, but they were female. The ex was someone I dated for a month, maybe two. We were friends before and after.

To give a little more insight to me, I am extremely introverted. Most of my friends have always been female. I've never found it easy to make friends. This group of females I looked up happened to be friends at a specific time in life, where I actually had a bunch of friends I would go out and do stuff with.

I did not send any of them friend requests. I did not contact any of them.

So a more accurate statement would be that I was thinking about a group of friends I had at a certain period in my life, one of which also happened to be an ex.

Reminiscing about a past period of my life is the one and only connection to the affair. I was doing that because we had some big life challenges at the time, from very serious financial difficulties, to struggling at work, to taking a full-time course load while working full-time. We had other issues, and I coped poorly by having the affair. But me looking them up didn't have anything to do with the affair - just my reminiscing about a time in which I didn't have to worry about anything, and wishing I had done some things differently.

Like I said in another reply, I wouldn't look them up now with what I have learned since. This is past behavior. The only thing current about it is that my BW just found out and thinks that I'm lying, or at least in denial.

I'm not really convinced she won't come home at some point and tell me to get out because she is so convinced this is a lie.

I keep telling myself I can work at being trustworthy, but I can't control if she chooses to trust me or not. This is of little comfort right now though with the marriage on the line.


Me: WH, 32
Wife: BW, 31 (SoVeryTired5)
Affair during March/April 2013
DDay: April 30, 2013 (Admitted EA)
Full Disclosure: October 11, 2013 (Admitted PA)
Hoping to reconcile


Posts: 65 | Registered: Oct 2013
BtraydWife
♀ Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 11:26 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, it is just the implied connection between the two I disagree with.

Ok. Can you explain what was different between this group of girls vs the one that became your AP? What in your mind says these girls were so different?


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 1862 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you agree with this statement?

When you looked up these girls on facebook, you did not have solid boundaries for yourself. This is evidenced by starting an affair with another girl you looked up on facebook, just a few days later.

I understand what you think was going on in your mind at the time. I also understand how your past situation could have really jumped to the top of your mind.

As some people here have guessed, I bet that you didn't go on fb looking for an A. But I also bet that there was something missing that you may have been looking for. Even if it was the feeling of being young and stupid, or missing the connection of old friends, or the desire to feel interesting or attractive. There was probably some sort of regret or unfulfilled desire that you had at the time. I think that may have set the table for the big jolt.

If this is true, explain it to your BW in those terms. Also admit that you aren't sure, but are committed to figuring it out.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 616 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There was probably some sort of regret or unfulfilled desire that you had at the time. I think that may have set the table for the big jolt.

If this is true, explain it to your BW in those terms. Also admit that you aren't sure, but are committed to figuring it out.

Iamamess:

Can you at least entertain denial. I believe you weren't consciously looking for an affair. I do.

Still.....having only girlfriends is very threatening to a wife.

Think about it. If your wife had ONLY male friends. Wouldn't you feel threatened by that?

I think your wife will be able to believe you more, if you at least DELVE into the possibility of denial.

I agree that accusing you of telling a lie, is too strong a word, given that you insist that you did not go on facebook looking for an affair.

Even if you are not in denial....Can you give explain to your wife that you totally understand why she thinks you are lying.

I am hoping that validating her concerns in some way will help her banish them.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1361 | Registered: May 2014
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There was probably some sort of regret or unfulfilled desire that you had at the time. I think that may have set the table for the big jolt.

If this is true, explain it to your BW in those terms. Also admit that you aren't sure, but are committed to figuring it out.

Iamamess:

Can you at least entertain denial. I believe you weren't consciously looking for an affair. I do.

Still.....having only girlfriends is very threatening to a wife.

Think about it. If your wife had ONLY male friends. Wouldn't you feel threatened by that?

I think your wife will be able to believe you more, if you at least DELVE into the possibility of denial.

I agree that accusing you of telling a lie, is too strong a word, given that you insist that you did not go on facebook looking for an affair.

Even if you are not in denial....Can you give explain to your wife that you totally understand why she thinks you are lying.

I am hoping that validating her concerns in some way will help her banish them.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1361 | Registered: May 2014
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