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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: My Why.
toasted22
♂ Member
Member # 38954
Default  Posted: 4:10 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I am reading the Assertiveness Workbook. Its really good and thank you to the SI member who suggested it.

So my BS wants to know my 'Why' I had two affairs, one lasting 2 1/2 years. I actually want to know as well for my sake. I never want to be in this place ever again.

This is something I have super explored with my two IC's over the last 2 1/2 years since DD.

So here it is. I will probably have some blind spots, areas I need to dig and delve.

1. I'm a stupid Dick
What a dumb idiot I was to ever choose go down that path.

2. I chose not to explore my depression. Actually I didn't even realize I had depression. I could have chosen to be assessed, got some help, got some meds. My mother had long term depression and considering it often has a genetic link I could have explored this earlier. Perhaps if I had been more proactive about my own mental health then I would have been more resilient to the temptations. In the end, after two suicide attempts I was diagnosed with Clinical Depression, stuck on meds and the fog began to lift off 50 years of being unaware of the reality around me. Since I have been on meds I am slowly and imperceptibly changing. I so wish I had chosen to get help way way earlier

3. I chose to ignore basic boundaries that are there to prevent this stuff from ever happening. Boundaries that my BS believed I was following.

4. I chose to not pursue my BS deepest needs and her personal fears around the type of work I was doing many many years before the affairs. This set the stage for my downfall. I chose to put my interests above hers.

5. I chose to surround myself with weird and wacky needy females that pandered to my need for approval. They fed me my 'ego kibbles' as my BS so rightly puts it. I am not in any way blaming them. I chose to surround myself with them.

6. I chose to be passive in my relationship with my BS. I did not pursue her or challenge the issues that existed in our relationship.


7. I chose to be a victim of my work situation. I 'poor me'ed myself. I was passive aggressive. I could have made changes but 'poor me' victim continued to be 'poor me'me.

8. I chose to think I was better than others. That I didn't need to be accountable to others. To be open and vulnerably honest with people who where there to actually help me.

9. I chose to lie to my BS and others. I am not sure totally of why I lie and deceive. Perhaps its a need to cover up, protect myself, to not appear inadequate, to prevent a feeling of ridicule and embarrassment.

10. I chose to have the affairs because inside me is a little boy who wants easy love. Passively not attending to the core issues in my heart.

So there are 10 reasons. There are probably more, or maybe reasons under the ten that need exploring further.


Posts: 69 | Registered: Apr 2013
still-living
♂ Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 5:17 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I like these two:

I did not challenge the issues that existed in our relationship. (a fact you can fix)

My mother had long term depression (a fact you can't fix but gives meaning to the above)


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
Neznayou
♀ Member
Member # 40654
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm still working on digging deeper into my Whys, so please don't hear this from an "I've-got-it-all-figured-out" stance.

Keep asking "why":

Why did you "chose to ignore basic boundaries"?

Why did you "chose to not pursue [your] BS deepest needs and her personal fears"?

Why did you "chose to be passive"?

Why did you... ?

I've been encouraged more than once (and I've seen others likewise encouraged) to ask one more round of Why? then ask Why? of that answer and ask Why? of that answer and keep going until you get to the real (and probably painful) answer.

BTW, I have also struggled with Depression, and I am a classic Passive-Agressive. I chose to be passive in my relationship with my BH, and I chose to think I was better than others. And I used to lie a lot to myself and everyone around me. Sadly, you and I aren't the only ones. There are thousands of us here. Remember, lift with your legs, not with your back.


Me: WW
Caught at AP's house: 10 Aug 2012
Admitted PA: 12 Aug 2012
TT ended: Jan 2014

"Power, Lincoln, real power comes not from hate, but from truth."


Posts: 280 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: America to Europe
apathetic1
♀ Member
Member # 44446
Default  Posted: 7:04 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a question...

Any chance you chose these things because the simple answer is you either 1. Never loved your spouse? 2. Fell out of love with your spouse?

As a betrayed spouse I just keep coming back to this is the only "why" that makes sense. I can never accept or understand that you could love someone yet behave like this.


BW - me 40's
WS - him 40's

How does that quote go "fail me once...shame on" ... oh who cares. Once is too many we had vows!!


Posts: 61 | Registered: Aug 2014
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A few thoughts here.

I chose to lie to my BS and others. I am not sure totally of why I lie and deceive. Perhaps its a need to cover up, protect myself, to not appear inadequate, to prevent a feeling of ridicule and embarrassment.

In looking back at things, I've arrived at a place where it just seems to me there is a common powerful force that causes someone to lie. That force is fear. More to the point, it's fear of conflict. Because we're afraid if we tell the truth, the person we tell it to will fire back at us. People of conviction don't like because they have the inner strength to be accountable for what they say and do. But for some of us, as I'm sure you're seeing in the Workbook, that fear of an attack by someone else on us can cause really irrational behavior on our part.

Keep asking "why"

The adage in quality circles is you have to ask why 3 to 5 times before you get to a root cause. This is true in our looking at being quality people. This advice is spot on. Ask why until the answer is one you can't ask why about any more. When you get there, you've spotted a root cause of the trouble.

As a betrayed spouse I just keep coming back to this is the only "why" that makes sense. I can never accept or understand that you could love someone yet behave like this.

Apathetic1 - it's perfectly natural that you would feel this way. But as a WS who has had to look back at my actions I can tell you that none of my destructive behavior had anything to with how much or how little I loved my BW. It was completely about my own failings, and my twisted way of filling holes in my own soul. It's probably nearly impossible to understand for someone who has never experienced these thoughts themselves, but the action of having an A can be completely separated from how much to love and care for your BS. It's selfish in nature, and totally focused on an emptiness at that moment in time.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 24 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4471 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
BtraydWife
♀ Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wh has that workbook and it IS very helpful.

Can I ask if you feel you are a conflict avoider too? My wh is and he feels that they go hand in hand.



Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 1757 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
still-living
♂ Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Never loved your spouse?

The real question is what is the definition of love. Someone can love their car more than they love their spouse. I think in many cases a WS does not fully understand the full advantages of loving someone else because it also hurts, so they shy away.

My definition of love is seeing oneself through another. When someone does not understand the full advantages of maintaining courage, honor, respect, self worth, and commitment, and the legacy it brings, then the definition of "love" is shallow. The shallowest of examples would be to maintain a facade through another, a "perfect" family, the shiny car, the bling.


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
toasted22
♂ Member
Member # 38954
Default  Posted: 4:18 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for all the responses

Good idea to keep on asking the 'why' under the 'why's I have listed.

I have always loved my spouse. I chose to be passive about pursuing deeper love with her. Instead I chose to go some where else. I wonder whether the undiagnosed depression fogged me out in some ways. Certainly as I came to full strength on the meds it was like a fog was lifting off my thinking. I saw what I had done in a new light.

Yes, fear is at the root my lying. Fear of being ridiculed, feeling small, inadequate.

thanks


Posts: 69 | Registered: Apr 2013
Neznayou
♀ Member
Member # 40654
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Which Assertiveness Workbook are you talking about? I looked it up on Amazon, and two similar titles popped up.


Me: WW
Caught at AP's house: 10 Aug 2012
Admitted PA: 12 Aug 2012
TT ended: Jan 2014

"Power, Lincoln, real power comes not from hate, but from truth."


Posts: 280 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: America to Europe
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Neznayou - this is the one I used:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Assertiveness-Workbook-Yourself-Relationships/dp/1572242094/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408634484&sr=8-1&keywords=assertiveness+workbook


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 24 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4471 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
toasted22
♂ Member
Member # 38954
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


This is the one I am reading

The Assertiveness Workbook: How to Express Your Ideas and Stand Up for Yourself at Work and in Relationships Paperback December 30, 2000
by Randy J. Paterson


Posts: 69 | Registered: Apr 2013
toasted22
♂ Member
Member # 38954
Content  Posted: 4:34 AM, September 5th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I shared this post with my IC this week. He was really pleased and felt that I was the most honest and accepting of responsibility he has seen in me. I also shared it with my BS who was also pleased and I think it has helped in our reconcilliation. More to do, but it is a start.

So here are some more reflections in my search for 'Why'.


2. I chose not to explore my depression. This is tricky and my IC agrees. Its like not being aware of something that really you needed to be aware of. Its still a major factor and I could have had it checked out more, but when you in a fog, and that fog has slowly crept up on you without you realizing it then you don't realise the mess your in.

3. I chose to ignore basic boundaries. Why did I choose to do this. I thought I knew better. I thought that I could cross the boundaries without consequences happening.

4. I chose to not pursue my BS deepest needs and her personal fears around the type of work
Why did I choose not to do this? I think I am too passive. I don't want to risk those conversations so I passively let them slide.

5. I chose to surround myself with weird and wacky needy females.
Why did I choose to do this? I think it may have been because they were stroking my Ego. They gave me a sense of approval without me having to risk confrontation and rejection.

6. I chose to be passive in my relationship with my BS. I did not pursue her or challenge the issues that existed in our relationship.
Why did I choose not to do this? I think its that passivity again as in No.4


7. I chose to be a victim of my work situation. I 'poor me'ed myself.
Why did I choose to do this? Risking confrontation is dangerous, so instead I chose not to accept the responsibility of challenging the work issues, but instead 'poor me'ed' my situation which just kept on creating more angst and dissonance in my thinking.


8. I chose to think I was better than others.
Why did I choose to do this? I wonder if it was because of No.7 and that I developed some sort of over puffed belief in myself that I didnt need to listen to others and their views.

9. I chose to lie to my BS and others.
Why did I choose to do this? I think its because I fear being inadequate, ridicule and embarrassment.

10. I chose to have the affairs because inside me is a little boy who wants easy love.
Why did I choose to do this? Love and intimacy require relational risk, not something that comes easy to someone who has a passive streak in them.

So there you have it. Coming down to a deeper why of 'Passivity'. Certainly As I have been reading the Assertiveness Workbook it has heightened my awareness of my passivity and my need to be more proactive.

Have any of you found this to the case?

[This message edited by toasted22 at 4:37 AM, September 5th (Friday)]


Posts: 69 | Registered: Apr 2013
wishicouldredo
♀ New Member
Member # 43623
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, September 7th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, it's 10 more 'whys' then I ever got from my WH, so bravo to you for searching and continuing to dig.

Any chance you chose these things because the simple answer is you either 1. Never loved your spouse? 2. Fell out of love with your spouse?

As a betrayed spouse I just keep coming back to this is the only "why" that makes sense. I can never accept or understand that you could love someone yet behave like this


I feel this way often also.


"I'm not where I need to be, but thank God I'm not where I used to be."

"Feelings are just visitors, let them come and go." - Mooji


Posts: 40 | Registered: Jun 2014
Topic Posts: 13

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