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Fool me once

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Luke posted 8/19/2014 08:33 AM

We have been married almost 15 yrs, with three great kids. After 1 month of suspicion, and digging i found out my DW was having an affair with her office mate. I had confronted her 1 mos. ago with suspions which were denied. I knew everything added up, but i kept telling myself it couldn't be. My DW would never do that. Then i found concrete proof of dates,meetings,etc.. changed phone numbers/names. It didn't feel like a punch in the gut, but more like i couldn't breath all day. i felt like i was drowning and in daze a dream. I waited 2 days, found a sitter for our 3 children. Then i told her again that night that this time i knew. She confessed to everything. She said after being home for 3 yrs with kids she felt sexy again. She liked not having responsibilities, going out, and being wanted by someone. It was the thrill she said, and it felt good to be wanted. We talked and I told her i can't force her to come back but if she wants to this is what must happen.
1. She must end the affair
2. She must see someone (a counselor) to talk with because she needs to talk with someone other than me
3. We then need MC after

Her response was that it wouldn't be easy. She thinks she could end the relationship with him, but doesn't know how to end it with him as far as being friends since they work so closely together. I know the extreme risks. I've read here and other places. I told her she could stay at her job, and i would never ask her to leave, but they could never go out anymore alone. Not to lunch, afterwork. No more texting. Only work related. Am i fooling myself? Anyway, she swore to me she would end it soon and i believe she wants to. I also believe she is just tricking me and will secretly hatch a new plan to be with him.
Also, she told me they never had sex. I believe she didn't, but i also believed a lot of other things. Debating whether to get tested myself. I'm just praying i'm not be played a fool again.

[This message edited by Luke at 7:44 AM, September 2nd (Tuesday)]

ChangeMaker posted 8/19/2014 08:45 AM

I'm sorry you're here Luke.

I'm probably gonna upset you a bit here, but I'm trying to help.

WS's almost always lie about the extent of the cheating when they get caught. Almost all (mine included) seem to start by saying there was only kissing. They will often only admit to what they get caught for. You should assume they had unprotected sex for now, since that is very common for WS's.

You should do some reading around here; particularly in the Healing Library (at the top left of the page). There may be other conditions and/or boundaries you will want to consider.

She absolutely has to end her friendship with him. If she must work with him fine, but they don't have to be friends. Personally, I'd tell my WS she has to leave that job.

One of the best things I did was to act quickly and decisively. If she doesn't start to SHOW you remorse (different than regret), then you need to show her you will not share her with another man. Don't listen to what she SAYS, she is a liar. Don't be afraid to file for divorce if she isn't meeting your needs.

It's all about you now. Be selfish, she was.

[This message edited by ChangeMaker at 8:46 AM, August 19th (Tuesday)]

syhoybenden posted 8/19/2014 09:12 AM

Oh she thinks she might be able to end it and stay at her job and maybe still be friends with him?

Well lah-dee-frickin'-dah!!!


justastatistic posted 8/19/2014 09:13 AM

Oh man, she's going to end it "soon"??? No no no.

You're being a pushover, and that is exactly the wrong way to go about this. Women do not find pushovers "sexy." You need to be assertive. She ends it NOW. She leaves that job NOW. She gets into IC and the two of you get into MC NOW. She gives you complete and total transparency NOW.

Make her choose. If she says that she can't right now, then tell her she has made a choice and 180 hard. Tell her you will not share your wife and will not be in a marriage with her and another man.

I know you're afraid, you love your wife, and you don't want to lose what you have, but trust me, there are worse things than divorce. Being married to a woman that would rip your guts out over and over is worse. If you want to save your marriage, the first thing you must accept is that in order to save it, you must be willing to lose it, and she must know that.

Expose the affair. If he's married tell his wife. Bring some sunlight onto the whole situation and make them run for cover. Gather evidence. Prepare for war. It's the best way to eventually gain peace.

mike7 posted 8/19/2014 09:13 AM


I'm sorry you're here. But I'm afraid you need to wake up.

she said she'll end it "soon"? Really? She needs to end it immediately.

Also, it's always a PA. And they always convince their husbands that it was only an EA, until he finds proof.

Hell, she convinced you it was nothing until you found proof. she's lying to you. I'm sorry. There's almost no chance that she's not.

This is what you need to do. She has to end it immediately. Now. Then, she has to give you total transparency. She gives you passwords to everything. Doesn't delete anything. Then, if you were smart, you would insist she start looking for another job.

She has betrayed you. if she wants to stay married, she has to do everything necessary to make you feel safe.

But make no mistake, it is almost certain that she's been having sex with this guy.

good luck.

Luke posted 8/19/2014 10:05 AM

Appreciate the comments. I will clarify a little about my demands. I gave her a day or two to end it.
But, it had to end early this week. Before she left for work today i told her i'm putting my trust in her that she will do it, but in the back of my mind i know she might be fooling me. I told her not to do that as i would go a different direction. I told her i already spoke with my attorney. In reality, I hadn't yet.

As an aside, i do have her pin i demanded it. She does/did delete messages but i have a way to still recover all. So i know now if she is blowing smoke. Yesterday i vowed to myself to plan a life without her with my kids since i've been virtually single parent for past mos anyway. But, since everyone here is saying she most definitely had sex, i'm going to get tested which is what i told her anyway. Problem is if i find out she did have sex(proof) there's no way i can come back. I just can't see it.

[This message edited by Luke at 6:57 AM, September 2nd (Tuesday)]

seethelight posted 8/19/2014 10:22 AM


I am sorry you are here.

I haven't read all the other posts.

If you read this forum you will see time and again that allowing continued contact with the affair partner ALMOST always leads to a rekindling of the affair.

The two cheaters are chemically addicted to each other. Each time they see each other that chemistry is reinforce.

She must go no contact with the OM, and if that means quitting her job and finding a new one, she should be willing to do that, if she is serious about R.

Please listen to the wisdom of the people here who have long ago been through what you are just now going through.

I only recently found this website, but had I found it on dday, I would have been prevented from making so many mistakes.

Please do not run away because the advice is difficult to hear.

Please hang around and read other posts.

Your wife is in her affair fog and NC is a must.

She is now making excused to stay connected some way because she is in the fog.

Please do not enable her, if you want a successful Reconciliation.

If you want divorce, let her do as she wishes.

Badhurt posted 8/19/2014 10:24 AM


First of all, the betting money on this forum is I am sure that they DID HAVE SEX, probably a lot more than once, so stop praying that you will not be fooled again, because according to what you have written you already believe she is bull shitting you.

Here is what is going to happen. She will tell you that she has ended it, but of course that will be a lie since she has already admitted she is addicted to the excitement of her affair. So it will go further underground.

Workplace affairs are the hardest to catch, the hardest to stop, and the hardest to monitor simply because you most likely will have no way to see what they are doing in interactions 8-10 hours every day, and you will most likely not have any way to access her work e mail or phone at work.

For you to rely on trusting her word is insane at this point. And your chances of stopping this at all if you accept them being friends is non existent.

You should do the following:
(1) don't bluff. See an attorney and get divorce papers drawn up. You can stop that process any time you want to and it does not happen immediately. What it does do is let her know that there are going to be consequences for her actions and that you are not fucking around.
(2) find out who this OM is and tell his spouse if he has one. Do not give your wife notice that you are doing this.
(3) draft a letter to the HR Department of her employment and tell her that if this does not stop immediately you will notify them.
(4) She needs to QUIT that job or begin looking for another one like yesterday.
(5) get a VAR and put it in her car. She will be talking to him in the car where she feels safe from you. Also put a GPS on the car.
(6) do not accept any "girls night out", or week end trips at this time from her. She is probably going to meet him.
(7) if she insists on telling you there was no sex involved, tell her since she has lied already, you will schedule a lie detector test. She will either do one of two things. If she wants to save your marriage, she will readily agree if she has nothing to hide. If she goes ape shit, you have your answer.
(8) you get passwords to ALL social media
(9) she shows you and sends with you no contact communication to OM.

You have a wife who only regrets she got caught, has admitted she likes the attention (which will not change), and is daring you to strap on some balls and do something about it.

You have two distinct choices here


If you do no more than what you are doing now, yes you will be played for a fool again


seethelight posted 8/19/2014 10:25 AM

The crazy thing is during this time our sex life has been off the charts of what we were. We used to be 5x a yr. Now for past 2 mos. it's 5x a week. I can't reconcile the two. And for some reason i want her now more than ever.. I know. not logical.

Some women do increase sex with a spouse during an affair because the affair feeds their ego.

As for wanting her now more than ever. That is a NORMAL human reaction in some cases.

It will most likely wane with time, and then you may go through a period when you can't stand to have sex with her.

Your mileage may vary. Each person is unique and has a varying response.

Jduff posted 8/19/2014 11:01 AM

Heed Badhurt's advice. Do not attempt to "Nice her" through the process and say things like "I trust you will take care of this."

As you spend more time here and read through our own experiences you find how uncanny the behaviors of our wayward spouse are so familiar. Much of the advice may seem counter intuitive, but have proven to be the most effective time and time again if at least to survive the infidelity. Your initial reaction to your situation was well executed. You're starting out well.

Your wife needs to find a new job.

And for some reason i want her now more than ever.. I know. not logical.

It's normal. It's called hysterical bonding.

Bigger posted 8/19/2014 11:40 AM

Hey Luke,

One of the big problems people have in dealing with infidelity is that we never expect it. We don‘t prepare or even spend time thinking how to react. One methodology that often works is to replace the infidelity with something we might have some knowledge of, know of someone that’s dealt with or is closer to us and therefore easier to process. Something like alcoholism…

Say your wife started working at a bar… Say 5 years later you realize that she’s coming home 1-2 hours later than when she started, that she always smells of alcohol and that she’s started to have a sip or two in the morning to get started.

Let’s say that eventually you put your foot down. You demand she quit drinking. She tells you that the staff at the bar really have a good time together (and let’s assume it’s not romantic or sexual for this scenario). That patrons tip in drinks, that the bartenders try new cocktails together, that after closing time the staff sit down to unwind and have a drink or two… or three… or four…

And for this scenario then let’s assume she acknowledges that she’s drinking too much and decides to quit drinking…

Do you think going to the same place of work where the same mentality is prevalent is going to help her in not drinking?

Do you think accepting that she “only” drinks beer and lays off the strong stuff will do the trick?

Do you think she’ll only sniff the new cocktails?

Would you prioritize in such a way that you would rather she kept that job even if it’s bound to lead to her falling off the wagon?

That’s where you are at now Luke…

Your wife is in an affair, the affair is totally her fault but it won’t stop while she’s in contact with OM. It will CHANGE… The actual physical affair might stop but your WW will still be in infidelity mentality and the chances and options to fall off the wagon are all around. Same with you – EVEN IF your WW is totally 100% committed to the marriage and totally ends it with OM other than pure office talk… You will always doubt. You will always worry when she’s half an hour late…

I hate assumptions… I think we should avoid making them… Is this a physical affair? Well… she denies it and she could be that one in a million that didn’t have sex… Maybe she knows it will be a deal breaker and therefore won’t admit. Maybe you need to give her the option to tell the truth… Maybe she has another definition of “sex”. Maybe oral doesn’t count… But frankly – the odds are that they had sex. I think you are better off assuming that’s the case and have her prove otherwise.

What do you think two people do at meetings? Based on the evidence you have – where were the meetings? What was the agenda? Why hide the phone-numbers if this was still “innocent” office romance? Nah Luke; this smells like a real full time affair and I would treat it as such.

Luke – one of the best points you make is when you say you can’t control her.
That’s totally true.

But… you do control YOU.

You can tell her what YOU intend to do and what she needs to do if she wants to remain your wife.
You can refuse to be in infidelity. You can tell her you are moving out of infidelity and she’s free to come along – on your terms. Those terms need to be conductive to reconciliation and total and utter NC with the OM should be there very high on the list.

craig2001 posted 8/19/2014 11:58 AM

Like everyone else has said, do not try to nice her back to the marriage, it never works!

She thinks she could end the relationship with him, but doesn't know how to end it with him as far as being friends since they work so closely together.
That is simple, she quits her job today. You made a big mistake telling her you wouldn't ask her to do that.

Luke, you are not seeing the exact magnitude of what is going on here. Your wife is most likely having sex with this guy, otherwise, why is it so hard for her to end it. Are there times your wife is home late from work without an answer. Takes forever to shop or any other times that she cannot account for her whereabouts.

You also made a huge but classic mistake, you put your trust in her to end it.

No, no and no. You do that only because you are living in the past with the thinking that you are trusting your wife to do a simple task like pay the bills.

Do not trust her to end the affair and do not put any trust in her at this time. Obviously, because she is untrustworthy.

You need to look at the deleted phone texts.
Your wife needs to quit this job.
Do you know anything about this OM? Is he married?

Do not trust your wife to end the affair. She has NO incentive to end it. And the fog of the affair, the phony fantasy world is too great a pull for her to just end it on her own.

Lthompson posted 8/19/2014 12:53 PM

I'm going thew it to my husband and some one from work was caught texting over 100 texted in a 8hr period and sending pics said would stop but come to find out didn't found another site to talk on called the hangout blocked her from it and two days later texted him so blocked her number again two days later went to him face to face to talk to him I'm having the trust issue right now

Luke posted 8/19/2014 12:56 PM

I just made a doctor appt. for myself to get checked for STD. So i am taking it seriously that she's probably lying. I do have access to all her deleted texts which is mostly how they communicate cause they r hiding it from office which i told her she's jeopardizing her career and his if they got found out.

[This message edited by Luke at 11:15 AM, September 2nd (Tuesday)]

ChangeMaker posted 8/19/2014 13:08 PM

My advice is to heed Badhurt.

Read my threads, and see his advice. Then compare it to what I subsequently discovered and did.

Badhurt had it right EVERY TIME.

The best thing I ever did was act quickly and decisively. I took control. I KEPT control. I have my dignity, she does not. She cries almost every time I see her. I do not.

Get that VAR in her car and in your house if she's alone there for any length of time. It'll fuck her right up that you're always one step ahead of her because of what you learn.

craig2001 posted 8/19/2014 13:23 PM

They were suppose to meet on this Friday. I can find out where. If i know should i follow them?
Why are they supposed to meet?

Is your wife going to continue the affair? You could follow, but what good would that do, you already know they are going to meet. If you follow them, catch them in the act, then what. You cripple him and go to jail. Not worth it.

Put a VAR in her car and find out what they are saying. Especially since they cannot do anything at work, most of what they do could be in cars.

Badhurt posted 8/19/2014 13:52 PM


This morning you told your wife you expected her to end this thing in a day or two. When she gets home you press her big time on what occurred today and when she tells you she did not get to it you tell her you will be contacting her HR Department this week. If you know who this is: call his wife tonight with your wife sitting there and tell her exactly what you know.
As far as Friday is concerned, you have told her it has to end and tonight you make sure you tell her you will not accept any fog shit and that it ends now.
I recommend you do follow her on Friday or if you can afford a PI for one day hire him.
If you do the things I have suggested this week and she still meets him on Friday your next step is to end this marriage and not be a fool
If you can find out where this meeting is supposed to be so it. And get the VAR in her car tomorrow.
Lastly, when she walks in the house tonight I would take her phone from her and tell her and do not give her a chance to delete anything. If she goes crazy you know she is lying
On Friday if they are still meeting, I am assuming they are not skipping work so she will give you some excuse as to why she cannot be home on time. That wl be further proof she is lying.

Your wife has no remorse her. Usually they at least try to feign remorse. Yours blatantly told you she liked it. She does not get to say she can't stop it because it is hard.
Craig had it right . You cannot follow them on Friday and beat the shit out of him. HE is not the problem. He just wants to fuck your wife. She has to willing so focus your anger on her, not him. If it was not him it would be someone else.
The purpose here is to confirm she is lying to give you the gumption to fight through the hurt and do what you need to do.

The is a thread in JFO called "The Unthinkable". It is long. He caught his wife planning to go away for week end tryst before it happened. He would have been better off hiring a PI and letting it happen because all he got by stopping it was more than three months on heartache, detective work, lying, and he is right now on verge I divorce anyway.
So if you can control yourself I am strongly supportive of seeing her meeting him Friday for yourself. They do not need to be having sex for this to be the end. Just her lying to you again is enough.

Keep pressuring her every day this week so there is no way there can the any misunderstanding of what you expect .

Sorry for the long post

wk55hn posted 8/19/2014 13:56 PM

Her response was that it wouldn't be easy.

In cheater-speak, this means "no, not yet."

She'll end the affair when you force the issue, not before.

I had confronted her 1 mos. ago with suspicions, which were denied.

Typical cheater behavior, only admit what can be proven.

Also, she told me they never had sex.

Typical cheater behavior, only admit what can be proven.

Luke, cheaters seem to all follow the same basic actions. There are a few variations, I personally find your wife's the worst - the one that doesn't stop even when caught. Some will stop immediately and cry and beg to save the marriage. Some will take it underground. Based on my experience and observation, the cases where they refuse to end it immediately (or at least fake ending it) are the ones where they care least about the marriage, and are the least likely to work out in the long run.

Also Luke you have to think of your own FUTURE feelings. Your feelings will change from relief of her quitting the affair to resentment that she took so long to do it, that she had to think so much and for so long about who was more important, you her husband of 12 years with whom she has kids or her office mate who she's been involved with for a few months and with whom she just has tea and sex. You WILL build up resentment over this. It will cause a lot more issues in the future if you try to reconcile.

healingroad posted 8/19/2014 14:59 PM

Luke, it's likely you're thinking, all these people aren't right, I know my wife better, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Big mistake.

Cheaters follow patterns because they cheat for the same set of underlying reasons. Your wife is no different. The only thing you can do is demand EVERYTHING (quit job, open comms, complete confession with timeline, verifiable NC) or you'll be played for a chump. Like I was, and a bunch of us were.

Don't let that happen. If you want to have a hope of saving your marriage and your dignity play hardball. NOW.

craig2001 posted 8/19/2014 15:21 PM


OM is not married, is a helluva lot smaller than me, and i know i would like to really meet him alone!
Actually, he doesn't sound all that smart. Smart men do not fool around with married women!

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