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User Topic: Why wasn't the A disgusting at the time?
pizzalover
♀ Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My BH likes to give me analogies to try to help me understand how he is feeling and how I should have viewed the A. I understand now what I did was disgusting. Here are some of the questions (analogies) that he gives me:

Why didn't you have sex with AP's dad?
Why didn't you let guys run a train on you?
Why aren't you banging the homeless guy down the street?
Why aren't you eating vomit or shit?

All of these questions I reply, "Because that is disgusting." To which he replies, "Why wasn't the A disgusting in your mind?"

Why wasn't it disgusting at the time what I was doing - having sex with AP, befriending OBS, introducing BH to AP and OBS. Why wasn't that disgusting in my mind like all of the things that he mentions are?

[This message edited by pizzalover at 9:40 AM, August 20th (Wednesday)]


Trying to rebuild each day

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 40 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 488 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
SelfishHusband
♂ Member
Member # 43174
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Because, unlike the nasty things mentioned, it was actually something you wanted and you had no self control to stop yourself. So you simply did what you wanted, with no thought as to consequences, because there wouldn't be any, because nobody would ever find out, or whatever rationalizations you did. I can understand the rationalization of befriending OBS and introducing BH to them. You wanted it to be OK what you were doing and maybe somehow it would be if you were all one big happy family right? BH wouldn't mind because you all know and love each other and there's nothing wrong with loving more than one person? The moment the first lie was told and the sneaking around began, why did you/I not stop ourselves right then and say no, this is wrong. And if we knew it then, why did we do it anyway. Was the temptation that great? Was it a perfect storm of bad times on the homefront and low hanging fruit just begging to be picked? You don't pick the wormy, rancid, rotting apple from the tree. It's the fresh, shiny apple that beckons. Just one bite. BH isn't around and he'll never know.


Me: FWH (39)
Her: BW (34)
DDay 1: March 2013 (EA/PA that *I* rugswept)
DDay 2: April 2014 (PA with double betrayal. OW was wife's friend)
Married: 13 Years
1 Handsome and Amazing Son (10)

Posts: 388 | Registered: Apr 2014
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It wasn't disgusting because of your mental state at that time.

Shrink Two employs CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and according to CBT, "should" is an irrational thinking error.

how I should have viewed the A

You viewed the A exactly as you were supposed to at the time, given your state of mind at the time.

Of course now you, and BH, may be experiencing cognitive dissonance because your current state of mind is not harmonious with you having sex with AP. You had sex with AP because, at the time, it seemed like a reasonable choice. You're in very good company here in Wayward, because I did the same exact thing, I suppose we all did. In my state of mind at the time, I *deserved* an A. Or two.

Shrink Two gave an apt analogy of how "should" is irrational. Imagine you planned an outdoor birthday luncheon for a loved one, and you chose July 15 because after exhaustively researching rain chances in PA in July, you discovered that there was a 0% chance of rain. It *never* rains in PA on July 15. Lo and behold, day of the party, it is pouring and you have to cancel because you have no backup indoor venue. You bang on the windows and yell, "It shouldn't be raining! Why is it raining?! It never rains on July 15!" Well, clearly it is raining, so the meteorological conditions are perfect for rain. It *should* be raining.

Do you wish you had made different choices, do you wish your state of mind at that time had been repulsed by cheating? Of course. Me too. Every damn day. But you did it, because the circumstances were right for you to. Often I've seen people on SI refer to the "perfect storm," preceding their or their partner's A, a combination of stress, emotional turmoil, and a willing or perhaps even aggressive AP. The conditions were right, in our mind, to cheat. We made the conditions right, to continue justifying our actions.

Recovery, IMO, is all about figuring out why those conditions existed, in order to make certain they never exist again. "Should have" has no place in recovery.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1236 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

P.S. SH and I cross-posted, we were not in cahoots WRT the "perfect storm" thing.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1236 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
trip3
♂ Member
Member # 44441
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This may be a poor analogy, so I apologize. It is like porn. When you're watching porn and enjoying it, it's awesome. Once you're finished watching the porn and are no longer enjoying it, it is kinda disgusting.


Me: WH 34
Her: BW 30 (Margypan)
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” -Ernest Hemingway

Posts: 53 | Registered: Aug 2014
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I once asked this question in MC and our MC said that it wasn't disgusting for my fWH because at that time (in that context), the A was a positive thing for him - it made him feel good, it stroked his ego, it satisfied his sexual needs, it built him up, made him feel wanted, took him into a wonderful fantasy land... etc etc so of course it didn't seem disgusting to him, it felt fantastic! Hurt like hell when she said it, but I get it. NOW, seen in the proper context, seen in perspective, of course it does seem disgusting to him.


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 1023 | Registered: Oct 2012
She-Ra
♀ Member
Member # 36033
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi PL

I was thinking and I noticed you haven't discussed it recently but I recall you were resentful of your BH. That he took too long to propose.. Then get married and that you didn't have kids which I believe you said that you wanted. Have you talked to him about how that resentment clouded every bit of judgement that you had? You cheated because you were angry at him for not doing things fast enough for you. On a timeline you wanted. And that your A was a passive aggressive attempt to get back at him.

Maybe I'm off base but my As have a huge deal of resentment behind them. Very unhealthy angry resentment which created a perfect storm to do anything I fucking wanted to.

Am I correct with any of that? Maybe I missed a post or 3 about the resentment. I think you need to face that more and figure out the demons behind that resentment. It's similar to me as well.

Hope that helps?


WW/BW 33 BH/WH 34
1 year old beautiful daughter

Posts: 861 | Registered: Jul 2012
pizzalover
♀ Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

selfishhusband
Because, unlike the nasty things mentioned, it was actually something you wanted and you had no self control to stop yourself. So you simply did what you wanted, with no thought as to consequences, because there wouldn't be any, because nobody would ever find out, or whatever rationalizations you did. I can understand the rationalization of befriending OBS and introducing BH to them. You wanted it to be OK what you were doing and maybe somehow it would be if you were all one big happy family right? BH wouldn't mind because you all know and love each other and there's nothing wrong with loving more than one person? The moment the first lie was told and the sneaking around began, why did you/I not stop ourselves right then and say no, this is wrong. And if we knew it then, why did we do it anyway. Was the temptation that great? Was it a perfect storm of bad times on the homefront and low hanging fruit just begging to be picked? You don't pick the wormy, rancid, rotting apple from the tree. It's the fresh, shiny apple that beckons. Just one bite. BH isn't around and he'll never know.

You bring up a lot of good points. For some reason I wanted to have sex with AP and wasn't able to stop myself even after several attempts to break it off. I absolutely did not think of consequences during the A. I did tell my old IC that my BH would be devastated if he found out, and that I didn't want to hurt him or OBS, but I continued in the destructive behaviors. I guess I somehow in my mind wanted this to be okay, even though I knew it wasn't okay. I did justify it in my mind when my BH hurt my feelings - I would say to myself, "AP wouldn't do that to me." What a complete crock of bullshit. OF COURSE he wouldn't care about me. He was using me for sex. I wonder also why after the first time and the first lie, I couldn't stop. I have justified lies in my head in my past. For example, during my promiscuous sexual time period I would say, "He will like me if I have sex with him (whoever that was)." Obviously this never worked because he didn't give shit about me. But then when the next guy came along I would say, "This time will be different. This guy will like me and want to be with me (relationship)." And the cycle continued adding a deep level of shame to my life. I still view sex as dirty, which is why I probably (TMI) still can't orgasm. The level of shame has just increased due to the A.

20wrongs

It wasn't disgusting because of your mental state at that time. Shrink Two employs CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and according to CBT, "should" is an irrational thinking error.
how I should have viewed the A

You viewed the A exactly as you were supposed to at the time, given your state of mind at the time.

I am trying to figure out WHY I had the mental state that I did that made it not disgusting. Was it because I was getting my needs met by getting attention? Why should my needs getting met affect innocent parties.
Of course now you, and BH, may be experiencing cognitive dissonance because your current state of mind is not harmonious with you having sex with AP. You had sex with AP because, at the time, it seemed like a reasonable choice.

You're right - my thinking now is definitely not harmonious to my thinking then. Now that I have been pulled out of it, I can see my actions for what they really were.
Often I've seen people on SI refer to the "perfect storm," preceding their or their partner's A, a combination of stress, emotional turmoil, and a willing or perhaps even aggressive AP. The conditions were right, in our mind, to cheat. We made the conditions right, to continue justifying our actions. Recovery, IMO, is all about figuring out why those conditions existed, in order to make certain they never exist again. "Should have" has no place in recovery.

I am working in IC to figure out why I allowed myself to have an A and why the conditions existed. I don't want these conditions to EVER be there again. I will NOT cheat on my BH - never. I believe that with all of my heart. You are right that "should have" has no place in recovery. I can't change the past. I can only take stock of what I did and figure it out.

trip3

This may be a poor analogy, so I apologize. It is like porn. When you're watching porn and enjoying it, it's awesome. Once you're finished watching the porn and are no longer enjoying it, it is kinda disgusting.

I definitely feel ashamed when I watch porn, but it is probably due to all of the shame I have built up from sexual past (which is another topic all together). I do get your analogy, though, so please don't apologize.

itsaclimb

I once asked this question in MC and our MC said that it wasn't disgusting for my fWH because at that time (in that context), the A was a positive thing for him - it made him feel good, it stroked his ego, it satisfied his sexual needs, it built him up, made him feel wanted, took him into a wonderful fantasy land... etc etc so of course it didn't seem disgusting to him, it felt fantastic! Hurt like hell when she said it, but I get it. NOW, seen in the proper context, seen in perspective, of course it does seem disgusting to him.

Yup - I can relate in some ways to your BH. It's definitely disgusting now.

she-ra

I was thinking and I noticed you haven't discussed it recently but I recall you were resentful of your BH. That he took too long to propose.. Then get married and that you didn't have kids which I believe you said that you wanted. Have you talked to him about how that resentment clouded every bit of judgment that you had? You cheated because you were angry at him for not doing things fast enough for you. On a timeline you wanted. And that your A was a passive aggressive attempt to get back at him.
Maybe I'm off base but my As have a huge deal of resentment behind them. Very unhealthy angry resentment which created a perfect storm to do anything I fucking wanted to.
Am I correct with any of that? Maybe I missed a post or 3 about the resentment. I think you need to face that more and figure out the demons behind that resentment. It's similar to me as well.
Hope that helps?

I think the last time I posted about resentment was last year, although I really appreciate you remembering the topic, and caring enough to ask about it. Yes, I was definitely resentful that he didn't propose earlier, especially after my brother proposed to his W after only 6 months of being together. I was happy for my brother when that happened, but still felt sad for me. I shouldn't have/had no right to be resentful (I know 20wrongs, no should haves) towards my BH because he was operating on his own timeline. I was his first girlfriend who he lost his virginity to. He had never had a real relationship before. I know that he had a lot of pain that he was never confident enough to have relationships and have sex before me because he didn't feel good about himself (here is a link to a post that he wrote that will give you some more insight into his mindset: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=533518&HL=38333 As for kids, I have realized that if I had really wanted to kids so desperately, I would have ended the relationship with him to find someone who would have kids with me. In IC we have discussed that I wanted a family, but didn't want to be a parent, if that makes any sense. I definitely idealized AP and OBS's family and relationship, and obviously kids were involved in it. I do love kids - you have to if you are a teacher.

Continuing on the M topic, it is so fucked up that he DID give me what I wanted - to get married. I knew we were going to be engaged before the A started; I picked out the ring. Why in the world while I was getting what I wanted, would I fuck it up so badly???

I wasn't having the A as a passive aggressive way to get back at him, at least not on a conscious level. I know that when he did something to hurt me, I would use it a fuel for the A. Sick, huh? I did have a lot of resentment about how I felt treated - about how my needs weren't getting met - and about how I felt disrespected at times. I was too cowardly to make an issue of things, so I acted out. I WILL NOT, however, blame my BH one iota for my actions. He didn't cause this. No matter what he did or said to me, it doesn't excuse what I did to him.



Trying to rebuild each day

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 40 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 488 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
Topic Posts: 8

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