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User Topic: The new normal - how permanent is it?
♀ Member
Member # 28720
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nothing is forever, I'm sometimes very perplexed when people worry about the concept of permanency, is there really ever such a thing? From my own personal life experiences and the lens I view the world and relationships, all things change, nothing stays the same. But I've been at certain points where it feels like this is going to be forever and is easy for one to feel doomed and overwhelmed.

Anyway, I think it depends on how you establish trust with your BS. I went a few years where I didn't go out alone ever, and not because it was an explicit rule, but to show my BS I wanted him to feel safe. With time and effort and progress, if you're making and demonstrating good boundaries, such issues can be revisited and/or revised. The time frame for that is going to vary for each couple.

If you've been reading my posts you'll know I'm not a remorseful wayward yet - I'm working on it but I'm just not truly there yet, no matter how hard I try to be. I'm struggling with whether I want to remain in this marriage.

Even if you reach true remorse, you may still struggle with thoughts about remaining in the marriage. I've been truly remorseful and was very desperate to save my marriage, but to this day, I still struggle about whether this is the relationship for me. I also agree that having to share IC sessions and journal entries seems a bit much. Does he know you're on SI and read your posts? I am not familiar with how far out from dday you are, but maybe his intense desire to know what's going on with you is prompted by a recent dday. In the beginning, I don't see it as unreasonable and I'm sure it will lessen with time.

Me - FWW (35)
Him - BH (34)
Kids - Ages 6, 8, 10
Married 13 years, together 18 years.
Last D-Day - November 2008

Posts: 805 | Registered: Jun 2010
♀ Member
Member # 44224
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You can leave the M at anytime. You can't leave you. So why not fix you first?

That's a good point and part of the reason I'm staying. I'm thinking once I fix myself, I won't want out. I have everything I ever dreamed of - it just turned out that right now I'm not happy with it.

But does it mean that you are practicing the attention seeking, external validation needing, dangerous behavior that got you into this mess in the first place?

Yes, that is very true - aside from the fun with my girlfriends, I do seek that even when I know I'm not going to act - I like the looks and the free drink here and there and THAT's the bad/dangerous part.

Somethingremorse - when you want that external validation, what do you do now to get it (or get rid of the desire for it)?

Me: WW
2 young kids
DDay - Dec 2013 (EA), TT
DDay 2 - Jul 28, 2014 (PA), TT
DDay 3 - end of Aug/beg of Sep 2014
(All the same A)

Posts: 316 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: USA
♀ Member
Member # 44224
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


My sig shows my DDay.

You're right - I feel overwhelmed right now and that's what it makes it seem like this is forever and that I can't do it forever. However, as you said, nothing is forever and even if it is - if I practice it and it does become normal and routine for me, it won't be hard, it will just be normal.

Thank you for admitting you still feel doubt over whether your relationship is the right one for you. I was curious whether that's a "normal" feeling or if it's a sign of something more problematic for me. Hearing someone that is "healthy" as a WS has the same doubts sometimes is reassuring.

My BH does not come to SI. He knows I'm on here and he's against the concept of this website. He would not/does not like that I share personal things with strangers on the internet but not him. Which I understand but I feel like I need SOMEWHERE safe to share these thoughts and being able to get feedback has made great progress in me. He still doesn't care for it though.

Me: WW
2 young kids
DDay - Dec 2013 (EA), TT
DDay 2 - Jul 28, 2014 (PA), TT
DDay 3 - end of Aug/beg of Sep 2014
(All the same A)

Posts: 316 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: USA
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I suppose he's the one I have to ask to know that though - not "a bunch of strangers"....


Your loyal spouse likely is very confused about what he wants at this point, and he may feel uncomfortable articulating his true needs to you.

So, I think asking for feedback from a bunch of strangers is actually a productive approach.

If your loyal spouse tells you that he will once again feel safe while you travel for work, or go out with the girls, he will likely be fooling himself and you.

Your loyal spouse will ALWAYS going forward be in some level of turmoil in your absence.

The level of angst may lesson over time as trust is regained, but your loyal spouse will never again trust you 100 percent.

My own wayward spouse has self imposed boundaries on himself....some I did not even ask for, as a way to make me feel safe.

Do you want your husband to feel safe with you?

ďIf two people truly have feelings for one another then they donít have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Somethingremorse - when you want that external validation, what do you do now to get it (or get rid of the desire for it)?

I stop and think about the outcome of that behavior. I wrote about that sort of thing in a post yesterday. How I find myself with a quip or comment or KISA something in the chamber pretty frequently. But now, after lots of AD's and therapy and journaling and practice, I can stop and think before I do anything. I can ask "will saying something to this waitress/parent/client/whoever actually give me something? And is it the empty sort of validation that will make me chase for more?"

Being the center of attention or getting that external validation doesn't actually give me anything. It comes from a time when I felt like didn't fit in, and so I did anything I could to fit in. It is junk food. The looks or smiles or laughs at a joke don't really do anything for me. Sure, they are nice at the time. But they are nowhere near intimacy with someone I love, or an honest friendship. Being admired by co-workers or people in my volunteer organizations isn't as satisfying as knowing internally that I did a good job or that I made a real difference.

Going after that external validation doesn't help. It makes it worse. It reinforces that feeling of disconnection. It confirms my fears that I am not part of anything. That process is like a drug -- the more of it I do, the more I need just to keep going.

I understand that I can have either the cheap external validation, or I can get something deeper and more fulfilling. Going after one means that I set aside the other. That might not be true for other people, but I have proven that is the way that I am wired.

I know this about myself now. I write it out in this forum to remind myself. I am 100% convinced that when I do those attention-seeking things that it harms my happiness. When I can see things that way, it is a lot easier to avoid them.

How do I stop seeking external validation? the first step is to understand how fleeting and ultimately meaningless it is, especially compared to what I have to give up to get it. The second step is to practice the stuff that actually matters.

SFN, the work of your lifetime, outside of your BH or family or job or whatever, is to understand what that external validation is covering up. There is a need in you, and you are trying to fill it in an easy, superficial way. Keep looking at yourself, and you'll get it.

Me: WH (40s)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 741 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
♀ Member
Member # 44224
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you somethingremorse. I had read your post yesterday and it is probably part of the reason I came up with this post.

I wish I were at the point you are at. What you say makes so much sense, but putting it into practice is so much harder. Obviously. There is a lot to think about and figure out....thank you.

Me: WW
2 young kids
DDay - Dec 2013 (EA), TT
DDay 2 - Jul 28, 2014 (PA), TT
DDay 3 - end of Aug/beg of Sep 2014
(All the same A)

Posts: 316 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: USA
solus sto
♀ Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can imagine how hard it is for you, contemplating forever. But in one-day intervals, it's manageable.

Chances are, you'll do these things until. Until your BS feels safe again.

What helped me most is the notion of surrender. Not "surrender" in a cowardly sense, but in the sense of letting go what you can't control to focus on what you can. The Serenity Prayer has been especially useful for me. (Surrender is such an important concept that I now have the word surrender tattooed inside my left wrist.)

[This message edited by solus sto at 5:01 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]

BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 9019 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
♀ Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he does not know how rocky I am about the R. I hate rocking the boat and that would do just that. That would make his life more volatile and that seems wrong given how much else I've done to him.

So you are continuing to make unilateral decisions in your M. You are continuing to make decisions on behalf of your BH because you think it's "for the best". Believe me when I say that his life will become more volatile when he processes that you are withholding very important information about his life. Why do you think he wants to know what your are discussing in IC and journaling about so badly? He is desperate to understand what his M is about. He is by no means being treated as an equal partner. He should have some insight into just how badly the M has fallen apart.

What sort of conversations are you having? I not trying to ask this facetiously. What are you telling him? Because you are allowed to express uncertainty. You are allowed to express struggle with who you think you are. You are allowed to ask for some time to figure it out. What should not be allowed are more lies or making decisions to protect yourself. It will hurt him more in the end. It is not fair to string him along under the guise of R if you really have no idea if that's what you even want. Be honest with him and let him make a decision about his M.

I'm sure he is sensing that you are struggling. It will only be a matter of time before he starts digging, hits the anger phase, and really begins questioning your motives. Right now he is most likely in "save the M" mode. How many more months go by before you drop another shoe on him?

ETA: just saw your other thread. There is solid advice in there.

[This message edited by WalkinOnEggshelz at 5:31 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]

Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Topic Posts: 28
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