SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I was sent an email from a gmail account with the name listed as "YouNeed2Know" that showed a poor quality video of what can best be described as a mini orgy of 5 people. One of the two women looked like my wife, but the quality was such that you couldn't tell for sure. I showed the email and video to my wife who swore up and down it wasn't her, that it was some sort of porn spam and I believed her. This was on my Birthday in October 2015.

Fast forward to April 1st and I get another email, this time from a gmail account with the name MrsWittoldisscrewingaround. Open up the email, sure enough, another video but this one is much better quality and leaves no doubt that my wife is involved. Devastated. Confronted my wife and she came clean, every bit of it with no TT. Here is where I start to have feelings of guilt and shame, and unlike every other BS I've seen here, I think I do carry the burden of guilt, and did push her into becoming something vile.

When we first met, we went at it like rabbits. My wife had an insanely high sex drive, and was the one to initiate sex the majority of the time. Over time, I had less and less desire to have sex. I blamed it on looong hours at work with an exhaustive travel schedule. She begged me to go to the DR, but I just kept saying no, I'm just tired. Over the years we had sex less and less, and I didn't even really notice that we weren't having it. She'd stopped asking for it, so it was out of my mind. Then one day my wife gave me an anniversary card that said Happy 1st Anniversary. I told her I didn't get it? She said it was the 1 year anniversary of when we'd last had sex. I couldn't believe her at first, but then after I really thought about it I realized she was correct. I vowed to go to the DR ASAP.

The following week I visit the DR, give my symptoms and have blood drawn. 1 week later I go in to hear my results and find that my testosterone level was at 111, and was the lowest that my DR had ever seen. Long story short, he starts me on the shots and I'm a new me. Only problem is, it took me 13 years from when my wife first started asking me to go to the Dr to actually do that. In the 13 years I put on about 5 lbs per year, and wound up about 70 lbs overweight. This was all 2 years ago, and I'm happy to say that most of the weight fell off on it's own, and my sexual appetite came back better than ever. Up until this past April, these were probably the best 2 years of my life. My wife and I were deliriously happy. Everything was perfect.

Then came April 1st. In her disclosure she told me she'd joined a swingers club in the next town and would go there when I traveled. She said she had been doing it for about 5 years, and that she went there because she thought it would be safe. No other BS to worry about, no chance of emotional bonding, just sex. She said she'd given up on asking me to go to the Dr and still loved me profusely, and that she was only looking to fill the void I'd created by ignoring her sexually. Looking back, there is nothing that I can see that I should have noticed, except for maybe she was too happy in our sexless marriage? She never treated me in any way negatively. She was always 100% supportive of me, and always showed her affection in the little ways that wives can do. I should also point out that she didn't visit the club again after I went to the Dr, and swears she hasn't been with another guy since or desires to. I believe her. My problem is, I now have no desire to touch her. I mean, the thought actually makes me nauseous.

We are going to try and R. I have had to work out of town for the last 6 weeks, so I haven't had a chance to see an IC yet (I start this Tuesday). She has, and has had 5 weekly visits so far. She is doing everything right so far, including telling me that I'm not to blame, but somehow I just don't believe it. Looking at how many times over the years she begged me to go to the Dr and I blew her off, I really can't shake the thought that if I'd just listened to the woman I loved ONCE we would not be where we are right now. I know it takes 2 to tango and what she did is wrong, but I know in my soul that I could have prevented it, and that thought absolutely killing me.

I'm not sure that I'm looking for any advice, but I won't be offended if it's offered. My brother went through this in the past and suggested that it would be cathartic to share my story. Here's to hoping he was right.

You should not feel guilty. You didn't do anything to deserve being cheated on!!!!! She made the decision to cheat, not you.

Yes, you ignored her requests to see a doctor. That's on you. Her decision to cheat for 5 years. That's on her.

She could have divorced you. She could have drug you to a marriage counselor for help! She could have done so many other things to get your attention instead of cheating.

Cheating is not the way to solve a problem in a marriage.

The decision to R or D is yours and yours alone. Given that she cheated for a long time will be very hard to get over. You will need a lot of information from her before you can make a decision to stay or go. If it were me, I would file but I'm not a strong proponent of reconciliation. I'm not telling you to D and I'm not telling you to reconcile either. I'm telling the following:

1. Take control of the situation.

2. Get tested for STDs if you haven't already

3. See a lawyer and know all of your rights

4. Get all of the information you need from your spouse before you make a decision.

5. If you haven't already, read the healing library in the upper left hand side of this site (yellow box).

6. Focus on your needs. You didn't do anything wrong and didn't deserve to be cheated on. Keep saying this until it sinks in!

7. Decide what you want and then make it happen.

Others will be along to provide more and better guidance. I'm sorry you found yourself in this situation. We are here to help so please keep posting.

Swinger sex and STD's

Nice combination. Better get tested.

I gotta be honest with you. Who joins swingers clubs?

Witthold:

You deprived your wife of sex. I deprived mine of love and affection. If one deprives their spouse of sex or love, will it create an environment conducive to cheating? Yes. But ultimately the neglected spouse has other options. They can explain their needs and how they are not being met on a repeated basis. They can ask for divorce. They can even ask their spouse's permission to go outside the marriage to meet their needs. But If they deceive their spouse, cheat and lie--that's on them. It is the difference between honesty and dishonesty.

In these situations, I think each spouse separately owns their failures. For example, I own my failure to make my wife feel loved, and that is 100% my fault. But she owns the deception and cheating, and that is 100% her fault.

We've both been tested. She swears she never had unprotected sex, either oral or vaginal.

I spoke to the same attorney my brother used. I'm in a VERY good position. Our house was bought with a VA loan, so she had to sign a quit claim when we bought it. Our rental properties are owned by an LLC that we are both 50% owners of, and we live well below our means already. We could split and neither of us would notice a change in our lifestyles. Two oldest sons we've already paid for college, and the youngest just finished her freshman year at University (at 16!) is on a full academic ride. This is also one of the prime reasons I believe she sincerely wants to R. She certainly doesn't $ from me to survive.

Who joins swingers clubs? Surprisingly, some people that would truly amaze you. In my follow up "investigations" I visited the place. I showed the owner a pic of my wife, told him I was her husband and after I proved we were still married, he and his wife told me pretty much everything I wanted to know. While talking to him at the bar, I saw someone that I used to golf with that I think might be who sent me the emails, but not sure. Seeing him there was a surprise though since he was the whole "I don't drink beer because it's against my religion" guy in public, but there he was in a swingers club pounding Jack and Cokes.

You may feel guilty,but you are not. Not at all. All marriages have issues and often sex drives diminish.

Your wife had myriad options other than cheating on you and the kids.

Frankly, she sounds depraved,joining a local swingers club. Doesn't she fear STDs. Condom use is not a sure protection.

I bet you know the tip of the iceberg with this woman. Polygraph her.

What would you have done if your wife lay divorce papers at your placemat one morning before breakfast, and said "I deserve a marriage with a healthy sex life. You refuse to seek medical help for your lack of libido and so I'm pursuing a divorce." Would you have jumped up from the table and called your doctor? I suspect you would have. She didn't do that because she liked you and the marriage enough to stay in it but felt she was entitled to seek sex elsewhere. That's selfishness.

You are not to blame. She had remedies that would have allowed her to conduct herself with integrity. We like to take blame because that allows us to think we have control over the infidelity. That's an illusion. You are not at fault.

I would question your wife's morals since she engaged not only in swinging but in orgies. There must have been some desire for multiple sex partners...what will you do when that desire hits again? All the testosterone in the world won't grow you extra sex organs...

I'm sorry you're here, but this is the place where you'll learn to penetrate the foggy thinking that will prevent your marriage from becoming healthy.

It looks to me like she chose one of the few solutions available consistent with preserving the marriage and giving her some semblance of a sex life. I think the two of you owe it to yourselves to work through the process and see if you can get past this. It would be understandable if you wind up deciding you can't, but what have you got to lose?

Different story if she was in love with one of these people but it sounds more like a bunch of walking dildos than anything else. No more threat to the marriage than the battery-operated variety.

Honestly you don't think too shocked about your wife joining a swinger club - so the post(s) about that I would ignore. It's your pain, we are all different.

I'm reconciled with my FWS and I feel completely healed also. One of the things that helped me in the beginning was this: Realize that your marriage is over, your wife is not who you thought she was. You have to think very hard, do you want to build a completely new relationship with her? Do you want to look very hard at your relationship both of you and build something new from the ground up? You can build something new and great, but not until you realize what you had is completely gone.

Looking at how many times over the years she begged me to go to the Dr and I blew her off, I really can't shake the thought that if I'd just listened to the woman I loved ONCE we would not be where we are right now.

Wittold

How about her telling you that if you didn’t see the Dr. she would divorce you or find a man that could take care of her? She dropped a nuke without telling you there was a war. What would you think if one country did that to another? Would you blame the nuked country?

She said it was the 1 year anniversary of when we'd last had sex. I couldn't believe her at first, but then after I really thought about it I realized she was correct. I vowed to go to the DR ASAP.

Wittold

See all you needed was something more than nagging.

I should also point out that she didn't visit the club again after I went to the Dr, and swears she hasn't been with another guy since or desires to. I believe her.

Wittold

This is so sad. All of this because your wife didn’t think of doing anything more than nag until years later.

Could it be that your wife didn't do more than nag because she liked the idea of the club and you gave her the perfect guilt free excuse?

Looking at how many times over the years she begged me to go to the Dr and I blew her off.

Wittold

It seems that if nagging didn't work you would try something else before you joined a swinger's club. Could it be that she periodically begged you over the years to clear her conscious? She would beg you and get the answer she always got. Then she could go to the club with no guilt.

Can you remember if she begged you right before you left for your trips?

Her: Please go to the doctor

You: I'm fine

Her: Ok, just checking

INSANITY DEFINED…

Doing the Same Old Things & Expecting Different Results

She begged you for years and years. She always got the same result but kept pushing the same button. Is your wife insane or deep down did she like the result she always got?

My problem is, I now have no desire to touch her. I mean, the thought actually makes me nauseous.

Wittold

Your wife was special and you made love to her. Now she is no longer special. If you are otherwise very happy and are able to get your mind around fu@king her instead of making love to her then you might want to stay with her.

Looking back, there is nothing that I can see that I should have noticed, except for maybe she was too happy in our sexless marriage? She never treated me in any way negatively. She was always 100% supportive of me, and always showed her affection in the little ways that wives can do.

Wittold

This is because she didn’t feel guilty at all about what she was doing. She felt that she gave you a chance and was forced to find the perfect solution to maintain her happy family.

To avoid feeling guilty many people are motivated to manufacture fault with their spouse. That way their spouse is a jerk that deserves to be cheated on and they treat them accordingly.

She didn't do that to you because she didn't need to. In her mind you gave her permission. No guilt = No reason to degrade or resent you. She had the perfect setup and was happy. If anything she was more motivated to be the loving wife when you were home to compensate for her other life when you were on your trips.

Two oldest sons we've already paid for college, and the youngest just finished her freshman year at University (at 16!) is on a full academic ride. This is also one of the prime reasons I believe she sincerely wants to R. She certainly doesn't $ from me to survive.

Wittold

Of course she wants R. I'm sure she doesn't want to explain to the kids why you're getting a divorce when you seem so happy.

She also wants the family stuff. Holidays with you and the kids in the same house, one family table at future weddings, ect. This becomes more and more important as you get older. Only you can provide the family stuff. For everything else she can just go back to the club.

I visited the place. I showed the owner a pic of my wife, told him I was her husband and after I proved we were still married, he and his wife told me pretty much everything I wanted to know.

Wittold

Did you ask them when she was there last? Would they tell a stranger the truth about a regular when it could get them in trouble?

What exactly is a Unicorn? Much like the elusive mystical beast, a Unicorn to swingers is the hard to find single female looking for action. Most swingers are couples; marrieds, dating, partners formed by similar sexual proclivity. Often women will join a swinger site looking for a male to partner with, but then there goes her Unicorn status. A Unicorn is a woman who is bold enough to go it alone. In the swingers world she is a rare gem. Single men are a dime a dozen.

My wife had an insanely high sex drive, and was the one to initiate sex the majority of the time.

Wittold

With that "insanely high sex drive" how could she give up being the queen of the swingers club "cold turkey" after a five year reign? I bet at the very least she had a going away party.

I showed the email and video to my wife who swore up and down it wasn't her, that it was some sort of porn spam and I believed her.

Wittold

Why do you believe her now about anything? She's had a secret life for years. What did she say when you got home from your trips when you asked her what happed while you were gone? Given her record do you have any doubt she would lie about when she stopped going to the club if she thought it would help the R?

Confronted my wife and she came clean, every bit of it with no TT.

Wittold

Really? Cheaters only admit what you can prove, minimize and gas light. She did the classic “That’s not me in the video" (gas light). Then when it was obviously her in a gang bang video all she had to work with was your low desire for sex and begging you to see the doctor.

She said that she instantly gave up the club when you saw the Dr. (minimize). The only thing she freely gave up is how long she was a member of the club and what does that matter? Is there a big difference between one year at the club or five?

You saw the Dr. two years ago (July 2014). She had been going to the club for five years and stopped July 2014. The first video was emailed over a year later in October 2015. The second was sent almost two years later in April 2016.

Why are you receiving videos long after she stopped? Did someone save them from years ago and decide to send them now?

Why was the second video sent? Did two different people independently send them? Or did one person send the second because nothing happened after they sent the first.

Is the quality of the second video so much better because she told people she was able to gas light you due to the poor quality of the first video?

Open up the email, sure enough, another video but this one is much better quality and leaves no doubt that my wife is involved.

Wittold

If I were in Las Vegas I would put money on that she went to the club after she got away with the first video. You 100% believed her and the club would be very hard to give up.

Then someone filmed another making sure that it would leave no doubt. You received the second email on April 1st. Did you go on a work trip in March? You got one video on your birthday and the other on April fools. I wonder if anything is up with that?

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[This message edited by Graywolf at 10:29 AM, July 10th (Sunday)]

You need to figure out if her going back to the club after you saw the doctor makes any difference in your final decision. If it doesn’t just go with what you already have. If it does then:

Is there anything you can use to date the videos? Maybe her hair style? Were the surrounding the same in the video as when you visited the club or was the club more modern than the video?

Use the video email addresses to ask questions. Just write: I understand that my wife is (use is not was) a member of a swingers club. Can you tell me more?

Be patient. The email addresses appear to have been made up just for you and they may not be checking them often.

Follow up with the golf guy you saw at the club. Tell him that you are thinking of going to the club with your wife and ask for advice. That way he will think that you're OK with the lifestyle and open up.

Put a voice activated recorder (VAR) under her car seat when you get home. You may record her talking to friends on the phone about her situation.

VAR information:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=576329

You could put a GPS on her car but she is probably on her best behavior now and not going to the club.

At this point I would focus on the circumstances surrounding the videos.

Who made the videos? Why did he send them to you, of all people?

Wow. A lot of good points that I hadn't really considered. Also realized that I left quite a few holes in my story, so some clarification points.

She didn't go to the club EVERY time I traveled. As best as she can recall she went 8-9 times.

I trust the club owners because they have fear for their business. When I approached them the were fully cooperative, I think a big driver is they are a quasi-legal business that the county is trying to shut down. I don't think they wanted any potential negativity a scandal would cause. What she did was against their membership agreement and got her banned (not a big deal since she'd already stopped attending).

I showed the videos to the owners, they in turn contacted some (maybe all?) of the others in the videos, asking if anyone would be willing to talk to me. One couple was, and they told me a story very similar to my wife's story.

The oldest video was from 2011. It was a party for the husband of the couple mentioned above's 40th birthday.

The newer video was November 2013, and was the clubs themed Thanksgiving party. I'm rock solid on the dates of both of these videos.

Pretty sure golf buddy is who sent the vids, because wife spurned his advances. Told him she wouldn't be with anyone she knows IRL. He was persistent in asking, to the extent that wife went to club owners who told him to knock it off.

The vids I received are very short, and very obviously shot by someone not involved with the action who was playing voyeur. The first is maybe 25 seconds and is shot from too far away, and is fully zoomed in. The visual clarity is not there, lots of pixelization and no audio to boot. I'd described it as an orgy, but in reality it was on MF couple going at it while 3 others cheer them on. Is that an orgy?

Second vid was shot by someone in the doorway of a bedroom, so much closer, it's maybe 8 seconds long, and shows my wife's face for a good 3 seconds, there is also audio and you hear what is definitely her in the soundtrack. I have no idea if it was edited to show her as the only identifiable person, or if there was just 8 seconds recorded.

Golf buddy and I do not get along. We are tersely cordial at best. We are both members of the same CC and carry the same handicap, so we have been paired up numerous times over the years. He seems to me to be the type who would disclose for the pleasure of causing pain.

I'm living in my shop (not as bad as it sounds. Upstairs is fully decorated; it was originally built for mother in law to reside in), my wife and daughter are still living in the house. Kids all know something has happened and that mom has taken the guilt 100%, but they don't know details. When oldest asked her if we were divorcing she said maybe, and that if so, it was all on her. She also told him if I'd done what she did we'd already be divorcing.

Wife's IC has suggested she see psychiatrist to get diagnosis for sexual addiction. She has made an appt for later this week.

Wife's IC is going to be our MC in a few weeks. My IC wants to have 4-5 visits with me before he thinks I should start MC.

I've replied to both email addresses and never had a response. I don't think they're being monitored.

There is no way I can do that with golf buddy. Potential to open up whole new can of worms.

I actually placed a VAR in her car. My problem is, since the weather has changed she has been riding her bike to/from work most days, so I don't know how much I'm potentially missing. I don't THINK she is doing anything, but I didn't think she'd ever screw around.

She has find my iPhone activated, and I do track her with that, especially when I'm traveling. She has an on call type of job, so she can't leave it somewhere to spoof me. What she can do though is forward all calls from that phone to a burner, while leaving the iPhone at home. Not sure if she's techie enough for this one.

Your story actually kept me awake last night. I am in a profession that knows about these things, so let me give you some hard information. First, one does not "join" a swingers club without significant effort. She may have had a partner who was the gateway or she may have used the net, but she probably had to send photos as a minimum.

These clubs are almost always about the objectification and debasement of women. They are expected to perform with multiple partners, often simultaneously. Same sex partnering among the women is the norm, not the exception.

If she"only" went 8or 9 times, that means there have been 15 or more sex partners. Probably much higher.

STDs in these cases is so prevalent that health districts have regular outreach programs.

Her story about safe oral sex is so unbelievable it defies logic. Who does that? You can be assured anal sex has occurred.

Does she really expect you to believe that she had no relationship of any kind with any of these people over five years. No phone calls, no lunches, no one on one meetings? No preferred partners? No conversations about you and her life at home?

There are probably dozens of photos and videos of her that could be anywhere. Doubt that? Run a net search for "amateur swingers". You will also see how the women are treated.

This is not to say that your marriage is not salvageable. It is to say that she has deep seated self esteem and psychological issues that probably have always been there but are very exacerbated now.

These events are always alcohol fueled, and controlled substance use is prevalent, so she may have issues with that as well.

They did not disappear when you got your libido back. No matter what she says, some switch was not pulled and she was back to normal.

All in all, she behaved in incredibly reckless, even dangerous conduct that was massively disrespectful to you and the kids.

So blaming yourself is just plain wrong.

I understand that you are reeling. Given normal affair behavior, you would only get half the truth from you WW. Whatever this situation is, it is not normal. So you probably have a lot more to uncover. Strength to you.

Focusing on who sent the videos is a waste of time. You have a lot bigger problems to deal with.

Besides, when you think about it, the person who sent them was trying to help you out...and he did.

She didn't go to the club EVERY time I traveled. As best as she can recall she went 8-9 times.

Wife's IC has suggested she see psychiatrist to get diagnosis for sexual addiction. She has made an appt for later this week.

Wittold

Is having sex 8-9 times over five years sexual addiction?

What she did was against their membership agreement and got her banned (not a big deal since she'd already stopped attending).

Wittold

Did you showing up get her banned?

Is having sex 8-9 times over five years sexual addiction?

No, it's because she would have gone a LOT more if opportunity arose. The club is only open 10 or so days per month, and I didn't necessarily travel on any of those given days. She says she would have gone every day possible.

Did you showing up get her banned?

Indirectly. She was banned because she signed her application stating she was single, when she was in fact married. They'd never have known if I hadn't shown up.

Her story about safe oral sex is so unbelievable it defies logic. Who does that? You can be assured anal sex has occurred.

This made me actually laugh, because it's pretty much the same question I asked her when we were first dating. I can assure you, she does that. The only way I've ever received is while wearing a condom, then again, she was never on BC because it messed with her hormones so typically the oral was given while she was putting it on me, if you get where I'm going. About the anal, I doubt it, but I don't really care. She can't be more spoiled to me than she already is.

Does she really expect you to believe that she had no relationship of any kind with any of these people over five years. No phone calls, no lunches, no one on one meetings? No preferred partners? No conversations about you and her life at home?

Yes she does, and yes I do, so far. It seems like she used the place as a hookup spot for guaranteed successful ONS. That to me isn't a good thing.

These events are always alcohol fueled, and controlled substance use is prevalent, so she may have issues with that as well.

Alcohol maybe although she's never been much of a drinker, drugs no way. She is regularly drug tested at work.

If she"only" went 8or 9 times, that means there have been 15 or more sex partners. Probably much higher.

She thinks the number is closer to 20, and that almost half were other women. That part blew me away because I never knew she had bi tendencies. Her "thing" was to meet up with couples, but she says on 2 occasions she had sex with single men.

STDs in these cases is so prevalent that health districts have regular outreach programs.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear this. I swear you could smell disease inside of the place. It was absolutely disgusting. I didn't go into the "play" areas, but the bar/dance floor area was bad enough.

These clubs are almost always about the objectification and debasement of women. They are expected to perform with multiple partners, often simultaneously. Same sex partnering among the women is the norm, not the exception.

Her description to me, I shit you not, was that it was like a more informal version of the country club that we belong to. That even if you didn't know someone, you felt safe walking up to them and just introducing yourself

There are probably dozens of photos and videos of her that could be anywhere. Doubt that? Run a net search for "amateur swingers". You will also see how the women are treated.

Yup, and that's the burden she will have to live with for the rest of her life. I asked her how she could be so stupid to put herself into this position and she said it was against the rules to video. I said, it was also against the rules to claim you were single, right? I have no desire to search for those videos. My imagination is bad enough.

This is not to say that your marriage is not salvageable. It is to say that she has deep seated self esteem and psychological issues that probably have always been there but are very exacerbated now.

I agree with the psych problems, and to be honest, I'm not sure I want to R with her anymore. There are a LOT of thoughts/points of view posted in this thread that I hadn't even considered. This one by Sassylee was the first eye opener

What would you have done if your wife lay divorce papers at your placemat one morning before breakfast, and said "I deserve a marriage with a healthy sex life. You refuse to seek medical help for your lack of libido and so I'm pursuing a divorce." Would you have jumped up from the table and called your doctor? I suspect you would have. She didn't do that because she liked you and the marriage enough to stay in it but felt she was entitled to seek sex elsewhere. That's selfishness.

then pretty much everything Graywolf stated. I consider myself a pretty smart guy, but I apparently have blinders when it comes to dealing with her.

So...she claims she used protection when she received oral as well? Because, unless she did, and that's highly unlikely, she had unprotected sex.

Addiction is chronic and compulsive. 9 times over a period of years is neither.

If you want to look for causes, rape or childhood sexual abuse would be more likely prospects in my completely inexpert opinion.

But it may be simpler than that. She may have a kink for group sex or public sex. Or she may have viewed an on premises sex club as less risky, in an assault/murder perspective, than other forms of random NSA hookups once she decided to step out of the marriage for sex-without-emotions.