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twisted posted 8/14/2017 08:47 AM

She says that most BSes just believe their WS and are able to reconcile.

It's hard to justify this when you know she has lied or omitted relevant facts in order to minimize the damage and deceive.

On her 11 page manifesto, I gave my WW a list of questions, ( from a list of someone here I modified to fit) I wanted her to sit down and answer for me. About 50 questions in all for her to "come clean" and tell me all the truth. I told her to take her time and I left the room.
Little did she know I still had a keylogger on the computer. It showed what she typed, then what she erased and rewrote to make it sound better. What she wrote then erased and left out. What words she changed to "soften" the fact. It was much more revealing than the answers she finally ended up with.
Just to put your wife's written explanation in to context.
She is still desperately trying to control the forest fire, and the closer it gets to a poly, the more radical she will become. Be prepared for this.
I don't want to speak for everyone here, but I'm guessing for all of us that have been here awhile would give it a 90% chance this is a PA. And that being a conservative estimate.

[This message edited by twisted at 8:51 AM, August 14th (Monday)]

M1965 posted 8/14/2017 09:23 AM

Pine,

There's an element here that no-one seems to have picked up on, but it has bothered me since I first read it. I'm surprised no-one else has commented on this, but I'll state my thoughts and let people shoot me down if they think I am wrong.

Called the OBS yesterday and we talked for a while. I'm not quite sure what to make of it.

She says that her husband and her have complete transparency and he has kept her informed all along.

She dismissed my W's lies and deceit by suggesting she was just afraid of my reaction. Felt to me like OM had already steered her perception of me as controlling and or angry, something like that. OBS suggested we get relationship counseling.

Said she had no problem with her H meeting my W out of town for lunch/dinner/drinks.

I didn't tell her what W told me that OM had said about my W or about her, as it really didn't seem like the type of thing to share given how the conversation had gone to that point. Kept it polite the whole time. So about the most I think can come from this conversation is that OBS talks with OM and OM steers clear.

That whole conversation is just 'off'. Why is a woman fine with her husband meeting another woman like that? Hell, it doesn't matter how much you trust your 'significant other', you are always going to feel uneasy if they keep meeting up with someone of the opposite sex (or even the same sex). You will wonder what is going on. Anyone would. Only...In this case, the OBS is absolutely fine with it. No fears, no anxiety, no surprise. That's a bit unusual, isn't it? It's almost like they have an open marriage, and as long as they both keep one another informed of who they are with, and where they are, they are free to play with whoever they want. What the OBS said would fit in perfectly with that scenario.

Like I say, I may be 100% wrong, so everyone feel free to shoot me down.

mike7 posted 8/14/2017 09:50 AM

I'm glad you're thinking that way.

There's a poster that's showed up on SI relatively recently that has made me think that something is....off.

forged1 - I agree, I saw the same thing. I can't remember which thread it is, but it seemed like someone posing with an agenda.

Dismayed2012 posted 8/14/2017 09:59 AM

Sorry to hear about the further revelations. As you know, her getting more upset about the poly isn't a good sign. You've delayed a long time to schedule the poly. She has side-tracked you; you could've had your answers by now. You really need to end her deceit and get your life on track. Be ready to D her if, as you expect, the results are bad. Also, if she continues to give you grief about your course of action, you have the option to D her regardless of the poly results. If she's that willing to take up even an EA relationship with another man, then she has questionable sexual boundaries and will bring you future pain no matter what you do.

Pineapple posted 8/14/2017 10:00 AM

In one single day yesterday, unsolicited, WW apologized for the comment about saying she might divorce me if she passed the polygraph, asked if I wanted to hold off on all of the sex that she's been throwing at me because she was suddenly worried that I might miscontrue it as an attempt by her to cover up worse things (even though she hasn't done those, of course), and suggesting that she would set up her own polygraph in addition to any I set up.

I am thinking, based on some interactions I've seen and things that have been said in the past couple of days, that a set of eyes which I would hope never would have found their way to this forum and thread, somehow managed to and have seen all of this. If that is the case, and they are reading this, please know that you are loved, and I understand your care and worry about this situation. If you have shared information with WW from here, it's okay, because your heart was in the right place. However, do not share any more. Just please know that despite what you may have been told by WW, and which I wanted and asked her not to reveal to you, that you may not have had the full truth. It's important that both I and WW work through this on our own, and with professional help, and eventually emerge from this saga as whole, healthy people again, capable of leading a happy lives again and fully participating in yours. That may or may not be as a married couple, but we will still be there with you and for you, none-the-less.

TimelessLoss posted 8/14/2017 10:41 AM

If you have shared information with WW from here, it's okay, because your heart was in the right place. However, do not share any more.
"Set of Eyes"...I'll call you that. Please be respectful of what Pine is asking of you. He is speaking to you from deep in his heart.

My thoughts, and not speaking for him: reading here and taking away his safe place is another betrayal. Another time when he was left out of decisions deeply affecting him. It smacks of someone knowing what is best for him and acting on it without his consent.

Bigger posted 8/14/2017 11:16 AM

Wow Pineapple… that’s a twist I haven’t’ seen before.

I was suspecting your wife of posting here but reading between the lines of your last reply…

We have had several cases where a WS finds SI and reads (and even posts). I was just about to post a message to your wife, encouraging her to be open-minded and to see how this group of peers who have all gone through a comparable situation constantly hammer on knowing the truth…

If Pineapple is correct then this is addressed to that person or persons.

I’m assuming you are stakeholders in Pineapples marriage. That is – the actions that might take place in the next days or months will affect your future.

A healthy marriage is based on trust. It’s not a blind trust, but rather a trust based on experience, accountability and shared experiences. Right now, that trust is seriously damaged and it can ONLY be repaired if both partners truly believe they are being totally honest.
IMHO there is NO relationship more important than the one between spouses. Yes, being a good parent is important, but part of being a good parent is letting go. Some years from now Mrs. and Mr. P will be alone with the kids having established their own families. Imagine if Mr. P has to spend the rest of his life wondering if Mrs. P cheated. If she didn’t then the concern will dig away at Mr. P ability to be a good husband. If she did but keeps it secret that burden will prevent her from being the good wife. BOTH deserve to know.

WW relationship with OM crossed a line (I’m assuming the reader has grasped the terms…). Yes – men and women can be friends. Men and women can meet for drinks or grab a lunch, share interests and enjoy each other’s company with no wrongdoing whatsoever. But WW kept her relationship with OM secret. In fact, she actively hid it from Pineapple. No attempt was made to introduce OM and his wife into the marriage as friends. Opportunities to meet after work were sought – even when those opportunities took time away from family. WW did not react when defined as OM workplace-wife. WW did not focus on or was present for family at family-events when she was busy texting with OM.

A line was crossed. Marriages have all sorts of unwritten rules and codes. This relationship broke some rules and codes. The big problem facing Pineapple and the marriage is that he doesn’t know what rules and codes were broken…

Unfortunately, there is no trust. Keep in mind that WW has been deceitful for quite some time. MAYBE the “lies” were only keeping the friendship secret. MAYBE the lines crossed are “only” keeping the relationship secret and all the time stolen from family. But… there is no way Pineapple can KNOW what took place solely based on what his wife says.

I know many of the posts and suggestions here are very tough on WW. But many of the posts that Pineapple seems to take note of (and I’m hoping I’m in that group) are only pressing for ONE thing:
Know the truth and work from there.

I think this marriage can survive even if WW admitted to having crossed more lines and broken more rules than she has admitted to. I truly do. This site was founded by a couple that reconciled and a key part of that reconciliation was a total confession. There are moderators and other respected members that have reconciled from seemingly impossible situations.
BUT… there is not a single poster here that can claim he/she has reconciled without knowing the truth.

This is the key-issue. Pineapple needs to know the truth and he has offered his wife that no matter what – if he gets the truth – he will commit to reconciliation.

A poly will confirm (with acceptable reasonable doubt) if WW is telling the truth. If she passes, then we here on SI will be tough on him to believe the poly and work at reconciliation. If she fails… well… it wouldn’t really be the fact she fails that would be so disappointing, but rather the fact that despite the present offer of an amnesty she doesn’t trust Pineapple with the truth.

That would indicate serious issues in the marriage. Not necessarily an automatic divorce, but that Mr. and Mrs. Pineapple have some serious lifting to do.

Want to help the relationship?
Allow the two to work things out.
Allow Pineapple this haven for advice and guidance.


nekonamida posted 8/14/2017 11:38 AM

I'm sorry for the recent developments, Pine. There is a poster here called yearsofpain who found out about his mother's betrayal when she left her diary open to it on the kitchen table. No one should have to go through something like that.

mike7 posted 8/14/2017 11:56 AM

just to be clear - the odd poster that Forged1 and I saw wasn't on this thread.

antlered posted 8/14/2017 12:36 PM

Wel that's unfortunate news, Pineapple.

Never doubt that reaching out for help with what your WW has done to you and your family was a good and responsible action on your part for yourself and your children. Do not ever lose sight of the fact that it is your WW that has brought all this upon you all, and is selfishly continuing to compound the damage by recruiting your kids in her efforts to minimize the damage of what she has done.

As for your children I hope they soon realize that what happens to their parents marriage is not their fault and is not their responsibility. In other words, there is not a thing, nothing, they can do about it. It's not up to them. Their world might change, but their parents will continue to love and care for them. It's true.
Take my case for example. After a twenty year marriage, my children's mother had a full-blown emotional and sexual affair with an old boyfriend. My two daughters were 9 and 13 at the time. Of course she lied to her children, and everybody else because of her deep shame. Couldn't face it and couldn't have people knowing the truth. (I had rock solid proof of her infidelity. Rock solid. She lied.) Anyway, we divorced, and she moved to a different state. Yes this sucked for the kids (and mom and dad) for about 6 months. It was like the world was ended, and in a small way it had. Then it slowly better. Fast forward 2 years and things are Way better for them (and mom and I) then they were even before I found out. Legit their lives are more fun now. Very safe to say that they are much MUCH better off than they would have been if I had been convinced to stay with their mom.
If it were my kids reading this I would say to keep your nose out of your parents' business. Let your dad have this safe space to help him. Also, your parents love you.:)

[This message edited by antlered at 1:04 PM, August 14th (Monday)]

ramius posted 8/14/2017 16:18 PM

This is what I posted on Friday......(took the F-Word out)

Just to be clear. Your cheating wife is enlisting your youngest child to lobby on behalf of her story? She is manipulating you via your children?

If that is the case......holy crap. That is a MAJOR red flag. A normal parent tries to keep martial drama from the children. Why stress them out? But a messed up parent uses her children as a tool, a means to an end. She is modeling terrible behaviours for her children. It speaks volumes to her lack of maturity and lack of character. She has a broken moral compass.

So it would seem her use of this tactic has now extended to this forum. It seems like quite a bit of effort if nothing really happened between her and the OM. Why is she pulling out all the stops? Seems to me if this whole thing is a big nothing burger why burn so many calories trying to shape the story?

mharris posted 8/14/2017 17:23 PM

I know the posts you are talking about. They are questionable, for sure, but offer such little information that it's hard to say. If it is Pineapple's WW, that does suck, and I hope that she gives him his space.

Pineapple posted 8/14/2017 18:27 PM

The next step in this process is ready to proceed relatively soon. I am hoping for a truthful evaluation and starting R with a higher degree of confidence about the extent and nature of the A. I agree with all that feeling confident about what we are reconciling is critical to any chance of successful R.

Re my post earlier, I am not totally 100% sure that there has been any intrusion into the forum by another concerned party. I am concerned about the possibility given circumstances of this past weekend, without going into much more details. I made my post to dissuade any further meddling if that had indeed started happening.

Hopefully soon W and I can really begin our hard work to get our relationship moving forward again.

Thanks everyone for your advice, perspectives and support through this ordeal. I will check back in after a few days.

TimelessLoss posted 8/14/2017 20:35 PM

Pine, you are stronger now, much stronger, than you were at the beginning. And stronger than you think you are. There is still a chance that you can lead her out of this. The unknown is if she will follow.

Peace to you. And your family.

Dismayed2012 posted 8/14/2017 21:14 PM

Ditto what 'TimelessLoss' said. Someone thinking that they know what's best and acting on it.

'Pine' has felt the need to say something about meddling twice now. This is supposed to be a safe space. If there is meddling then know that the meddler/s is ruining this site for betrayers and the betrayeds.

The meddler, if one/some exists, is a betrayer of all of us on this site. Please stop now.

Pineapple posted 8/16/2017 16:28 PM

Took W over for a poly exam last night. Examiner had an extensive LE background in interview and interrogation. He warned me that the process could be pretty rough on the examinee and urged me to try to work through things without putting W through the process if at all possible. Kept the question focus on PA only.

When W called me after to pick her up she sounded stressed over the phone. When I arrived to hear the exam results, W was a broken woman. Distraught. W failed the poly. According to the examiner it wasn't borderline.

It was a really tough night. Spent the night walking W back from edge. Never seen her so emotional. Finally by mid day today I have her starting to calm down a bit.

Only info I gained was still EA-related, admitted that the number of happy hours was probably higher, and went into detail about the degree of emotional closeness which she had towards OM, describing it as love towards an extremely close friend. Categorically denies any PA, not even a kiss.

I have to say that if she is harboring a secret at this point then she's taking it to the grave.

Proceeding with R through MC. Lots of work to do.

Thank you everyone for your help and support. Really would have been adrift at sea if I would have been forging through this on my own

beenthereinco posted 8/16/2017 16:39 PM

I'm confused. She failed the poly, it wasn't even close, and the focus was on a physical affair so that means she definitely had sex with the guy? And you are proceeding with Reconciliation even though she lied and continues to lie?

What was the point of the poly?

Pineapple posted 8/16/2017 16:45 PM

I honestly don't think there is more for her to tell. I'm not totally sold on the result.

Sharkman posted 8/16/2017 16:53 PM

Was there a question about physical ? I mean if she failed categorically then take another

[This message edited by Sharkman at 4:59 PM, August 16th (Wednesday)]

Pineapple posted 8/16/2017 16:55 PM

Only physical

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