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Nycountrystrong posted 8/18/2017 18:25 PM

I've been where you are at with your WW and it sucks. Mine didn't take a poly but I had so much evidence I shredded her claims of nothing happened. She got super depressed, attempted suicide, and kept telling me she was sorry.

I helped her into treatment for her depression and suicidal thoughts. I ended up deciding to try again. She never would confess the extent of what happened, only what I could prove. She claimed non physical. Turns out years later she was caught giving drunken oral to a" friend " at a local bar. The friend of mine who saw her... never told me until after they found out we were divorcing. This is only the tip of what I suspect went on now.

My point is this. If she refuses to admit and own what she did, she will come to feel that you let her hide it once, you will again, and more than likely will go right back to the inappropriate behavior again. Mine did.

As others have stated, you cant rebuild a life on a foundation of lies. Eventually either she will start again, or the questions unanswered will eat you alive.

I tried again because of my 2 kids and 17 yrs together. My second time around the betrayal roller-coaster... I hate myself as much as her for giving her the power to shred my world again.

About her taking her secrets to the grave.. if you try again without the full truth, you're probably right. To this day my STBXWW refuses to admit to anything.. even the betrayals I had the hard proof to and confronted about 5 years ago. It just seems some people are not able to tell the truth no matter what if it makes them look bad.

My stbxww.. will lie about anything and everything now. And then wonders why I and the kids have no trust in anything she says.. as she will lie about anything. Even when we know the truth

Pineapple posted 8/18/2017 18:33 PM

Thanks for the kind and cautionary words Timeless.

I may indeed be sitting in a chair on the deck of the Titanic with the ship listing far to starboard, drink in one hand and cigar in the other, a quartet playing dutifully in the distance as the remaining passengers mill aimlessly about watching the last of the lifeboats drift out of view. The captain has just made some comment about the nearest land being a thousand miles ahead. As I take another swallow of my drink and look out over the ocean, the only thought going through my mind is that I am one hell of a good swimmer.

Smillie posted 8/18/2017 18:49 PM

If it gets to that point Pineapple it's better to watch it from the lifeboat.

Stevesn posted 8/18/2017 18:58 PM

Thank you for the update. I at least feel better knowing you are thinking this through.

It was unclear before from your previous post.

I'm not against trying for R. Just glad you are aware that trying it on a bedrock of lies and TT makes its success much more difficult.

Best wishes....

Sharkman posted 8/18/2017 19:34 PM

Pine,

The nature of this is that we are pretty well-versed in what needs to happen, when, where, why. The reality is that none of this happens in a vacuum and you need to go at your own pace.

We'll be with ya for every step.

MidnightRun posted 8/19/2017 14:27 PM

None of the Titanic's passengers swam to shore.

Jduff posted 8/19/2017 18:35 PM

And I'm thinking he's more on the U.S.S. Indianapolis the Titanic. It's going to get worse when the ship goes under.

Walloped posted 8/20/2017 23:00 PM

Hi Pineapple. I hope you've had as a good a weekend as you could, given the circumstances.

You've received a ton of excellent advice in your thread. I'd like to put a few things in context though, if I may. You are right that many, if not all of the posters have been betrayed before. But please don't mistake their advice as coming from a place of bitterness, or any sort of projection. What you are hearing are the voices of experience, from all walks of life. That's what makes SI so powerful. Sure, some of the post can be very blunt and even harsh, and people do become emotionally invested, but that's because they care. They want the best outcome for you - meaning they want to see you safe, and on the path toward healing. Whether that means you remain married or get divorced is irrelevant. The goal, as Bigger has said here, is for you to get out of infidelity. The advice you've been given comes from that place.

Regarding the poly. My $0.02. My wife took one. Jumped at the chance. Passed. No arguments, no research, no worries. And that was after I told her that if she failed, we were done. And she took it with zero hesitation. Your wife failed. As others have said, the point of the poly is not the answer per se, it's whether she's being truthful and transparent. That's it. Because if she's lying about this, then what else is she lying about? And if she's not being transparent about her relationship with OM, then how do,you know what you need to heal from? And how can she then do the necessary work on herself, focusing on the root causes of why she had that A (whichever type it was), if she's not being honest with herself? Real work at R (I'm just past 2 years) requires the WS to really dig deep. To bare their soul, face ugly truths and take a very hard look at themselves. How. An she do that if she's still hiding who she is or what she's done? And if that's the case, how can you possibly rebuild a marriage?

Sure, you can rugsweep it, "move past it," or some other such phrase, all which simply mean "play ostrich and pretend everything thing is fine." Nothing to see here. Move along. In my experience, my wife's honesty and transparency was paramount. Because I never would have believed she'd have a 3 month PA to begin with. So who the hell was she? And in order to figure that out, I needed her to ask herself the same question. That gets to a rare level of communication, where we really dig deep, are completely and totally honest and open, and share the dark parts of ourselves that no one else knows. And with all that, R is hard. Very hard. Without it? Impossible.

Her emotional state - I'm sorry you're dealing with this. Gently, I believe it's an act. I'm not saying she's not distraught or hurting. I'm really not. you've got kids, right? I've got 5. Ever deal with a kid that gets super emotional in order to deflect attention on the real thing they did wrong? How about righteous indignation on a tangential topic? They're distractions. We've seen it many times here. In the extreme, there are threats and attempts by the WS to commit suicide. The focus becomes the drama and helping them and taking care of them and shifts away from the core issue. It's a tactic that works if you let it. I don't mean to be harsh, but after everything I've read about your WW, I'm betting that's what's going on. Doesn't mean it's not supremely difficult to deal with. It is. Just that you need to see it for what it is. A way to distract you from getting to the truth.

Pineapple - It's your life, your wife and your M. You can do what you want. MC is pointless. The real work happens in IC. But that work won't occur without honesty. See the loop? I highly recommend a second poly. The odds of her failing a second time and it not being due to her simply not telling the truth is infinitesimal. Go buy the $650M powerball. You have a better shot at winning that. Again, the key is not the answers. It's her honesty and transparency. Because without that, you have a marriage in name only.

I wish you the best.

-W

twisted posted 8/21/2017 08:31 AM

If it gets to that point Pineapple it's better to watch it from the lifeboat.

Good Advice!

MidnightRun posted 8/21/2017 09:04 AM

Twisted hit it out the ballpark.

Bravo.

twisted posted 8/21/2017 13:21 PM

Give the credit to Smillie on that quote.

JC109 posted 8/21/2017 17:07 PM

Move along. In my experience, my wife's honesty and transparency was paramount. Because I never would have believed she'd have a 3 month PA to begin with. So who the hell was she? And in order to figure that out, I needed her to ask herself the same question. That gets to a rare level of communication, where we really dig deep, are completely and totally honest and open, and share the dark parts of ourselves that no one else knows. And with all that, R is hard. Very hard. Without it? Impossible.

This ^^^

I never in a million years thought my wife would do this either. When she did I had no idea who she was. Her honesty is what helped me with that. With dishonesty you cannot begin to heal simply because dishonesty implies a deep lack of repentance and selfishness. No matter what words they say.

Pineapple posted 8/22/2017 23:01 PM

Im back from a weekend getaway to see the eclipse with the family, which was an absolutely amazing experience.

At the end of last week we had an MC session, which overall seemed beneficial and had one positive takeaway, being that W now acknowledges, without reservation or qualification of any kind, that she was deeply involved in an EA. I like the style of our MC.

However, that said, after a rough day and a pretty testy phone call earlier between W and I during which I witnessed some pretty aggressive attitude coming from W, Ive realized that I am truly not at a point that I am ready to pursue R with her right now. The question of EA vs. PA aside, what I see is that I have a ways to go just to feel like I have pulled the 180 to the degree that I need to in order to make some pretty fundamental decisions. And the key one is if I even want to pursue R. This needs to happen on my schedule, when Im ready to proceed. And its now obvious to me, as it has been to nearly all of you, that I am not ready. So Im backing off of the MC sessions for now, and am going to pursue just IC for myself for however long I feel I need it, a week, a month, whatever. Whether or not W pursues IC is completely up to her, I am not going to involve myself in it. Shes been reading numerous books on the pertinent subjects, and thats a good thing.

I am also going to give up, for the time being, any effort of pursuing whether or not anything physical occurred. I asked W if she would be willing to take another poly with a different examiner, and she steadfastly refuses. She said shed consider anything but that. I thought about suggesting waterboarding, but figured that comment might be counterproductive. Shes not going to change her story, so that is what it is.

Sanibelredfish posted 8/22/2017 23:31 PM

On August 14th your WW was planning to set up her own poly and now steadfastly refuses another poly under any conditions. Hmm, I guess she figured she doesn't know how to beat them after all, eh? What other explanation is there for such an abrupt change?

I think detaching from her is the best thing for you in the near to mid-term. Full speed ahead on the 180. Something tells me you'll need your strength.

She'll want to Hoover you back into pussy coma when she sees you detaching and setting your own course.

LM2017 posted 8/22/2017 23:53 PM

Pine, your WW admits to a "deep EA", but given the amount of time and opportunities she and OM had, I just can't see this as not having been a PA also. Her denial of a PA, with all of the circumstantial evidence, defies all reasonable logic. With the inconclusive results of the Poly, barring her confessing to clear her conscience, you may never know the full truth.

How would learning it was also a PA affect your decision to R or D?

OrdinaryDude posted 8/22/2017 23:59 PM

No further comment.

ramius posted 8/23/2017 02:02 AM

I asked W if she would be willing to take another poly with a different examiner, and she steadfastly refuses. She said shed consider anything but that.

Has she considered not lying?

Sharkman posted 8/23/2017 03:32 AM

Pine,

Spring on her that her boyfriend is taking a poly 'as we speak'. Look at her face when you tell her this. You will not need to give her another poly. Her face the instant you've told her is all you need to know.

I commend you on continually checking in. You are getting some decent pushback and it takes a good dude to not only hear that but process it.

Though as I've said a few times, it was an affair. Whether it was physical or not is a rounding error at this point. (With that said that doesn't change the fact that you need 100% truth if you ever want to pursue R. )

Smillie posted 8/23/2017 03:45 AM

I think you are smart to get IC just now. To be honest I am quite surprised that she hasn't fessed up to a PA after the poly. It is pretty clear that it was a PA. If she is going to take it to the grave then just work on improving yourself right now and look at your options. Hang in there.

self-rescuer posted 8/23/2017 06:09 AM

Ive realized that I am truly not at a point that I am ready to pursue R with her right now.

This is a very meaningful realization.

I've been around here for a few years and must say that stepping back and looking at the affair with more objective (and less traumatized) eyes always leads to a more positive outcome. It is impossible when you are still reeling in the early stages to have true clarity.

I didn't know cheating was a personal deal breaker until about 6 months in. Before that I would have cut off my arm to reconcile. I just needed the emotional dust to settle.

You are quickly becoming an expert on the cheater's thought process and you understand betrayal is betrayal, whether emotional or sexual or both. So deal with the betrayal that you are certain of now. It's enough. But know that the nature of infidelity is a never ending stream of revelations so be prepared to learn more and more and more. Hell, I'm six years out and deep into my new and good life and I inadvertently STILL learn details about the affair (small town). It truly is the gift that keeps on giving...


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