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Trtroles posted 7/16/2017 12:34 PM

What happend with her first marriage?

HellFire posted 7/16/2017 12:51 PM

Her agreeing to the polygraph,and her confidence, means nothing. She's already set the stage for a false positive. When she fails, she will be outraged,and remind you she was worried about a false positive result.

She's been doing nothing but damage control since you found out.

You need to contact his wife,and tell her. Call her,and tell her your wife confessed to an affair with her husband. Don't tell your wife or she will let her OM know, and he will do his own damage control. He will tell your wife you're unhinged, dangerous,etc. Call her,don't bother with a email or text,he knows you're aware something happened,so he's keeping an eye out for you to attempt contact,and he will delete your messages. And don't tell your wife at all. She is not supposed to be talking to him,so if she finds out,and says something,you will know she's still in the affair.

MickeyBill2016 posted 7/16/2017 13:28 PM

Pineapple. please read the posts, maybe your WW's affair is different but it probably is not. It is ok to listen to what she says but until her actions reflect the word it's all smoke to get you calm and off the trail.
She is off the panic mode and now in the CYA and TT mode. She has no clue what to do now and is flopping around trying to save her ass, and her reputation and family and OM and you and the dog...
Take notes here and cross off each of the cheater things she tells you or does. Its predictable. Sadly.
On vacay she agrees to the poly so you stop talking about it. IMO when you get home and you tell her the poly is scheduled her reply will be she did research and doesn't trust them, she won't do it and if you can't trust her it's your fault and maybe you do need to divorce- a bluff.
Don't be surprised in a parking lot confession, that you should record on your smart phone. (not for legal purposes but because you both will be very upset and won't remember things that were said.)
Google voice activated recorder app for your phone, there are plenty.

If you know what to expect you have some control. I was surprised at 89% of what my WW did. I had no reference like SI to learn from and prepare myself. I was lost..

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 1:29 PM, July 16th (Sunday)]

Marriagesucks posted 7/16/2017 13:31 PM

I doubt that she will ever take the poly. I suspect in the next week or so you will receive a little more TT...not enough to be damning but just enough to attempt to throw the bloodhound off the scent.

You take each little bit of circumstantial evidence one piece at a time and you say to yourself, "Hey this ain't so bad." But when you put it all together it paints a pretty good picture albeit an unfinished one but a picture nonetheless.

And I do agree with TimelessLoss with a written timeline. Thats the thing with a timeline... everytime they lie the timeline will show it. For your sake I really hope I am wrong and its all a bunch of misunderstandings that led to this. The money you spend on a poly will be the best money you ever spent.

Pineapple posted 7/17/2017 03:47 AM

Have located a general phone # to contact OBS at work. W swears nothing physical. Part of me is really hesitant to make this call if it turns out this is all emotional on my W's side. But I guess I can tell OBS what I know and let her decide for herself. Would be good sanity check to compare notes and find out what she knows compared to what W has told me. W says that OM and OBS share location on phones with each other and that OM is transparent with OBS about where he is and who he is with at all times.

Had a big argument with W in public late today. Spent the whole day up and down emotionally, finally at dinner I switched to being mad instead of sad.

W did truly seem despondent, she thinks I will never accept what she is telling me. I asked her for a timeline, when did the lying and deceit start. She is really having a hard time coming up with a clear beginning. I'm sitting there thinking wtf how can you not know? Is it because lying is just normal or has it been going on forever?

Don't really know much about W's first marriage. She insinuated that her first husband was unfaithful to her and moved out of state. She supposedly filed papers on him.

Wife uses work phone so I can't access carrier account info. I know she has a second cell phone for work that I rarely see. My best shot to get any new information is with the poly and get the timeline from her in advance for it. If there is anything physical that happened then I will probably only have a shot to learn about it in the parking lot.

She swears nothing physical and she does seem very sincere and despondent about this whole thing. She was really crying a lot after our argument (more my anger/venting session than argument) today, genuine remorse. Says she deserves this pain and that she would rather hurt than see me hurt. She said a lot of right things. I feel like her heart is in the right place and she would like to fix it. She says she knows me and knows how badly she has hurt me. She thinks I will never accept her story now and never be able to forgive fully. I answered that she needs to take poly and rule out PA and corroborate her current account of things, then we both get counciling and begin recovering. She is still worried about false positive and wants to go to best available examiner for poly. I agree.

Oh well 2AM almost, another sleepless night for me. How am I in this place? Is this real or did I just get swept into some parallel universe? Can I please go back now?

Sharkman posted 7/17/2017 04:19 AM

Stop arguing start 180ing.

Contact the OBS and just talk to her. If it was all emotional on your wife's side then just tell the OBS that your wife has admitted to an emotional affair and nothing more. You're simply trying to put the puzzle together and are reaching out.

Make the poly appointment. There are very many good ones. Just make the appointment. It's not the poly anyways, it's the parking lot confessions. Once you have that appointment card is when you start getting some truths (if you haven't already)

Stevesn posted 7/17/2017 05:43 AM

Pine

How did she explain the "last night was great" text from OM?

Also, it seems like you would be committed to working on your marriage even if she told you there was Physical contact.

If that is true, can you tell her something like:

"if you are truly Remorseful for what you have done then I will commit to you that I will work on this M with you to get it to a place where we can be together for the rest of our lives.

But you need to come clean now so we can start working through this pain. We cannot build anything on a foundation on lies. If it comes out later that you had sexual contact with this man, after me asking you for the truth and you deceiving me, then I will know that you were only trying to protect yourself and not me or the M. In that case I will immediately filefir D and we will go our separate ways.

So I am begging you, please give me the truth so we can move forward. Write me a timeline of your whole affair, each time you met and what occurred and we'll move forward from there. Do you really think you can keep the truth to yourself for the next 30-40 years?

I want a long life with you. Please be an active participant to getting us there. You already started on the wrong foot with lies and omissions. Please be truthful with me moving forward and I will commit to you to doing the work from my side to save our marriage."

Pine, i really hope she sees that the best path forward is thru honesty. I think it's really important that she start IC well before MC so she can work thru her issues first. Same with you.

stoicmarcus posted 7/17/2017 07:04 AM

I am so sorry you are going through this. It is not right or fair. Reading your post I can tell you my story is almost exactly the same with some minor differences. They will not admit anything unless caught red handed. Mine says because she does not want to hurt me. I am not sure if it is that or their own shame and fear that prevents them. What do we do? I have been suffering beyond belief. I have some suggests mindfulness is a type of meditation you can try.Look up on Youtube Thich Nhat Hanh he has several videos explaining the process. You can't control the other person. They have to willingly honor their vows and commitments. Don't let her gaslight you. I hope this helps you. Their is nothing wrong with your behavior please feel good about yourself.In pain also Donald.

Marriagesucks posted 7/17/2017 07:44 AM

She thinks I will never accept her story now and never be able to forgive fully.
Yet another red flag. You already told her to come completely clean and then you can work on your marriage. This new statement tells me their is much more that she is not telling you.

Yes... its possible that the affair was only emotional.. but there is obviously more to the story and her lips are sealed. She is probably scared shitless that if you knew the truth you will D reguardless.

Ginny posted 7/17/2017 08:16 AM

The best way to get the most out of this site is to actually READ the advice people are giving you.

Gently, right now you can not trust the words coming out of her mouth. You CAN trust the people here to share from their experiences and what they have learned about cheaters from reading countless stories here. Cheaters seem to tell the same lies across the board.

She is setting up an excuse for a "false" positive.

Stop talking to her about the OBS. Start talking to the OBS. Don't whitewash this. Tell the OBS EVERYTHING. She may have access to phone records on her end.

Innocent people do not delete all of their messages just as their spouse begins to sniff around.

Chappie posted 7/17/2017 08:17 AM

You seem to have implied she had been treating you badly. When did that start ? Did your sex life go south about the same time? How do these things line up with your worries (gut feelings) about the other man.

So sorry you are here. Talk to your doctor about this and your lawyer. The first goal is to take care of yourself and protect your kids.

Ones sex life usually goes to hell when their spouse is having an affair. That's because love is involved. If sex life actually goes up the affair is usually just for kicks.

twisted posted 7/17/2017 09:14 AM

Says maybe we should hold off on any sex during vacation.

Why does she think that's a good idea? I'd like to hear her reasoning on this one.

I know she has a second cell phone for work that I rarely see.

Huge red flag, HUUUUUge! This is how I caught my wife.
Your wife is probably been in an PA for awhile, in my opinion and having heard so many stories. You still need a VAR, if for the house if not the car. Contacting the OBS discretely is a must. She may have more information and see if you get her to hold off a little longer before blowing it up on her wnd. The AP will have been notified by your wife already to cover his tracks and have a story ready.
I also doubt she will ever take a poly.

W did truly seem despondent, she thinks I will never accept what she is telling me.

Why would you, she's admitting to lying to you all along.

I would really try to recover those texts again, perhaps with different software.

Any new trinkets, gifts, or lingerie recently?
You've probably confronted too early and lost the convert ability to snoop around undetected, so you need to backtrack for what you can find. Credit card receipts, Toll pass records, fuel purchase ( locations), phone records, etc, you'll need to get creative if you require real proof.

twisted posted 7/17/2017 09:15 AM

Can I ask what program you used to recover text, message, etc?
The last ones not showing up sounds off to me.

TimelessLoss posted 7/17/2017 09:21 AM

W says that OM and OBS share location on phones with each other and that OM is transparent with OBS about where he is and who he is with at all times.
Mmmm, interesting. Trying to make some sense of this statement. First, your W was never transparent. She lied repeatedly. But this guy is "transparent " w/ his W? Pine, when you contact the OBS you are going to have to do understand how this OBS/Location/OM issue plays into her reaction and response. Your W's statement would mean that the OBS knows all about your W and her meetings w/her H, right?

I put this statement into the bucket with her other statements that are meant to put you off track. 'I couldn't be having an A, his family jewels are non functioning', 'I couldn't be having an A. If I were wouldn't he keep his location and who is with a secret?'.

And this

I asked her for a timeline, when did the lying and deceit start. She is really having a hard time coming up with a clear beginning.
This should sound a familiar refrain to you. 'I'll do anything for the marriage, however I have to research a poly for false positives, I'd like to do a timeline but I just can't remember'. So what do you do? Calmly and firmly restate that the timeline is an important indicator that she wants to work on the M. That she can start writing the timeline by listing everything that comes to mind. That you trust (yeah, right) that her memory will be jogged once she starts writing. She can start with the present and work backwards. And now up the ante. 'W, as important as this is to our M, I need you to have this done by xx/xx/xxx'. Otherwise she will delay, delay, delay.

See the dynamic that is at play here? She puts out just enough agreement with the things you are asking, and then qualifies/retrenches her agreement by 'I'm not sure if a can remember when it all started, I have to research that first'. She placates you with her initial agreement and then does a Mohammed Ali "rope-a-dope" technique.

I know she has a second cell phone for work that I rarely see.
How do you know this? She told you right? Did she tell you that at some point in the past when you noticed another phone? I think that now this one is the equivalent of her burner phone.

None of what I say is meant to fuel any kind of BTB mentality, or dissuade you from your desire to save your M. It isn't even meant to further erode your trust in her (that's in the shitter already anyway, isn't it?).

It is mean to support you with rewiring your brain for the stage you are at. So think about this. You never, never, never had to concern yourself with examining your W's actions through a lens of fidelity. You trusted her implicitly. And rightfully so. Your brain is wired to be trusting and accepting.
Now you have to look at things through a different lens. She has been deceitful and manipulative in her actions. And lies, lies, lies in her words to you. You now have to look at the patterns of her statements, the patterns of her behavior to get past the veneer she initially presents.

The homework remains:
1. OBS contact
2. Getting the OBS to engage in providing you info.
3. Timeline. You need to get this quite soon. When you read it you will find holes that she will have to revisit. Compare it against things that you know about: where you were at those times, where she was supposed to be. Reconstruct that timeframe against the reality you had.
4. Find a qualified poly examiner. Experienced in infidelity.
5. Rewire your brain from accepting things at face value.

I'm glad you found some anger. The anger is righteous.

Stay strong, Keep posting.

Sharkman posted 7/17/2017 09:40 AM


Can I ask what program you used to recover text, message, etc?
The last ones not showing up sounds off to me.

He did mention her phone was full. What happens with phones is that "deleted" messages are not really deleted but get a "can delete" bit set on their record, which also hides them from display. When the phone then needs space this is the first stuff to go.

A full phone is very very very difficult to recover messages from.

twisted posted 7/17/2017 09:55 AM

Timeless makes some good points. Keep in mind, the OM's transparency is hearsay, do you really think he's told his wife about all the lunches and after work drinks? be sure and take notes on this timeline to compare.
Shark, I will defer to you on the software, as I have not used any of it. I would just think that those text/messgs marked for overwriting would be date sensitive, oldest first.

Nycountrystrong posted 7/17/2017 09:57 AM

I say this gently as I can. What you are seeing from your wife in her actions, seeming despondent and sad, while at the same time holding things back that in your gut you can feel. What she is showing is not remorse for what she has done to you, it is regret that she got caught.

You confronting her and pushing the issue that this is not acceptable and you would not tolerate this ruined her little world. She had the doting husband in you who she could treat badly and still fall back on. And she had her side fling, even if just emotional, to dump her love on and make her feel special. All while stepping on you.

I've been in your position. I mistook regret at being caught for the remorse of having hurt someone who loved you. I had four years of false reconciliation to prove to me that my wife's actions and words were miles apart from each other. She has already shown you she can lie directly to your face, repeatedly, and will only admit to what you were able to prove.

I've been there too, and it sucks beyond belief. Coming to the realization that your partner can lie to your face and betray you is hard. Also, gently, it is rarely and I mean rarely only an emotional affair. Especially if they had multiple times alone together. It would be almost beyond belief that they would message like this and not act when meeting in person.

I had to face these facts myself. That my STBXWW was not the woman I thought she was. For me the hardest realization was that my wife acted this way our entire relationship and only got so blatant I could not ignore it at the end.

Be advised that when you confront a cheater they often just become a smarter cheater, meaning they figure out how you knew and find different ways to communicate that you can not trace. You already stated your wife has access to a second phone you don't have access to so at the bare minimum she can use that to keep contact.

My wife discovered kik messenger and a couple other programs that automatically delete all the messages after the chat is closed so poof, no trail to follow.

Also if you are going to contact the other betrayed spouse, do not I repeat do not let your wife know. She will contact this other man and they will already have interference in place and excuses ready as to why what you are trying to tell his partner is false. That if you can contact her at all. I tried contacting my wifes one A.P wife after he groped my daughter in front of her at her job... They managed to have an excuse in place and had me pre blocked on almost every avenue to contact her. I did finally manage to get her a message but at that point I was portrayed as just an upset parent that got him unfairly fired, not someone whos wife the scum had been fooling around with

Pineapple posted 7/17/2017 10:00 AM

I am reading the responses. I am trying to take the advice and perspectives. I greatly appreciate everyone's time thoughtfulness and sharing. Without all of your help I would be lost in this battle. I can't express my gratitude enough.

I do realize that the most probable explanation for all this is that W has been engaged in a long term PA with other man. I am prepared to learn a little more info to confirm it and completely accept this reality. I might never get more info, and I accept it is the likely scenario based on what I know already. I have not been talking with W about OBS since this all broke. My info about OBS is from recollection of past comments by W concerning her. W has said that OM made comments that OBS had become fat since getting married. So he probably doesn't find her attractive. I think he may even have said it at one of the dinner meetings with me and him that W arranged. So another clear red flag there. OM openly critical of OBS appearance. W critical of me to OM. Another stake in the coffin.

I have a doctor's appointment coming up soon, I will explain my situation and request a full battery of STD exams. Joy, that is going to be fun. W has said she would not ever have a PA because she doesn't want to risk STD. But obviously none of her behavior has been rational so that statement means nothing.

I have a strategy to hopefully get a parking lot confession if one is possible. If poly results are unclear or fails I will accept that PA is near certain. I already acknowledge it is the highly likely scenario.

If I ever get access to other phone I will try to recovery messages. Software I used is enigma recovery. I didn't have lots of time to play with it based on W walking in on me. Doing my best with situation given all the challenges.

I will contact OBS when vacay is over. Better if I have poly exam results before but not needed. Yes she needs to know. I heard she was having great stress at work so this news will be tough. W has said OBS travels a great deal for work so plenty of opportunity for OM to engage in PA I see now.

twisted posted 7/17/2017 10:07 AM

W has said she would not ever have a PA because she doesn't want to risk STD

Again, I've heard this before, an intelligent woman would surely use protection, right? Nope, unprotected with all of her ONS, and never with her LTA partner, that she knew had screwed around as much as she had.
Unbelievable!

I'm still big on trying to recover more info, maybe DrFone? Other more tech/geek types here may be of more help on this line.

twisted posted 7/17/2017 10:11 AM

One more thing, if get access, record the apps list ( Apps Manager) on her phone and research them for messaging or hidden files.
Example: Audio Manager is actually for hiding files, as is Keepsafe and other "vault" apps, for pics.

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