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Too much pain and sorrow

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arbuom posted 8/27/2017 16:08 PM

I’ve come seeking the help and wisdom of the collective as I suffer greatly. This is extremely difficult for me, I’ve always been a very private person and the the fact that I’m writing this gives me great anxiety. This will probably be super long, have too much detail and all over the place. I wrote it for SI without the intention of posting it. But the time has come, and here it is.

My WW and I have been married 13 years, together 14, both in our forties. We have two beautiful boys, 8 and 6. Our M has had it’s ups and downs (nothing new here), our first four+ years were absolutely blissful, I absolutely adored my WW (always have) and she as well, our sex life was exceptional (and still is to some extent). Things started to get a little rocky when the children came. After the birth of our first, I started to get more and more marginalized. I tried to adapt, but things got worse as WW was overruling me more and more on all aspect of child raising. I started to resent her especially when she’d overrule me right in front of them. I would get upset, and we’d fight for a few days, have incredible makeup sex, and we’re happy again (looking back, I realize now that our conflict resolution was very poor to non existent). Unfortunately this has caused me to get less and less involved in helping with the kids, and she in turn resented me for that. It seemed at the time that my value in the M was completely tied to how much I helped her with the kids. Not by how much affection and love I showed her. And it didn’t matter (nor did I ever get credit) for being a very successful senior executive, and provided an incredibly lush life for my family. She never had to think about finances, or how the bills/credit cards got paid. I encouraged her (although I regret it now) to be a SAHM. She is very well educated, and had a career that she put on hold (she recently started working part-time again, 2-5 hours/week), and I semi-retired from work a couple of years ago. There is probably more relevant stuff here, but I can’t get my thoughts organized, I’m sure there’ll be more in future posts.

One day last summer, my WW came to me and said that a classmate of our youngest is coming over for a swim date, and that his SAHD was bringing him. Didn’t really think much of it when she told me, and I left that morning. When I got home, I walk to the back of the house to see my WW swimming, in a revealing bathing suit, with this total stranger. I don’t know why that hit me like a ton of bricks at the time (intuition?), but I think it did because I’d known my WW to be very conservative and never wanting to wear anything revealing in public (despite my often hinting that she’d look sexy in this or that), let alone be in a bathing suit with someone I don’t even know. I chose not introduce myself, and never officially met the guy. After he left, my WW wondered why I didn’t say hello (he never saw me either), and I forget what my response was, but it was clear that I wasn’t very happy with what I saw. I’m curious what you guys think, did I overreact? I don’t think so given where I am today.

I forget what discussion we had that evening, but the gist of it was something along the lines of her thinking that it was perfectly normal, and me thinking not so much. A couple of days later she was pretty excited to tell me that she had received a very nice email from him, thanking her for the swim date, and inviting her and our boys over for lunch. Again, I don’t recall the specifics of what we discussed, but I remember asking her if it was going to be just her and no other parents, and she said yes. I was clearly not happy, and told her that I didn’t think it was appropriate, but she insisted that it was perfectly acceptable, especially that both sets of children were there (he has two boys as well that are slightly younger than ours). So I aptly said, what happens if the kids somehow get out of the picture, her surprising response was “that would fine too, I’m looking to make connections with other parents”. I have to stop here and mention that at this stage, I was flabbergasted. This was COMPLETELY out of character for WW, almost to the point where I felt that I was imagining things, and thinking that I must be blowing this out of proportion. Finally, for reasons I don’t recall (see a trend here, my brain is completely fried), the lunch never happened because they couldn’t get their schedules aligned, and I breathed a sigh of relief thinking that this is behind us.

Fast forward to the end of summer and school starts. WW drives the kids to school and picks them up every day. I’m familiar with her schedule, she drops off the kids and comes home right after. Until one day in early fall, she came home late and informed me that she had went out alone for a coffee with POSOM! Fuck! Another round of discussion ensues, and what I had anticipated actually happened. The kids are no longer in the picture, and it’s just the two of them. I reiterated again how inappropriate it was, and again, she said that it was totally fine and that she has “intuition” about this POS. She says he’s a nice guy, and has no other motives other than having someone to talk to. The following week, just as she’s heading out the door to drop off the kids, she informs me that she’ll be late this morning because she’s going out for coffee with the POSOM again. I show my displeasure and exclaim at the last second information. Another week passes, and this time at the beginning of that week, she says that since I didn’t like the last second info last time, she’ll be going out for coffee with POSOM at the end of the week (they’re planning their dates now). At this stage, I’m full on freaking out internally and wondering what the fuck is going on. It’s almost like WW went through an overnight personality change. The day before she was suppose to meet POSOM, I didn’t sleep at all the night before and was wondering what to do, I see her leave to drop of the kids looking all dolled up and think to myself WTF! So I decide enough is enough, and plan on telling her when she gets back that she will not be getting together with POSOM the following morning, and that’s the end of it! When she gets home, I greet her at the door and compliment her hair (trying to make a point of her looking good) and she flips and accuses me of reading her email! I balk at the accusation and ask why she would say that, and it turns out there was an email from POSOM complimenting her hair as well. I demand to read it, and sure enough, he had written her an email after seeing her that morning to tell her: “nice hair!!!”. But what was even worse, there was another email from her sister (more on this home wrecker later) with the subject: “For your friend POSOM”. I couldn’t believe it. I told her that I’ve had enough of this shit, and that she’s done with this supposed friend. She obviously was not pleased, but finally agreed as long as she still went to see him the following morning to tell him in person (I think this is straight out of the cheaters handbook), I was pissed as to why it was necessary, and that an email telling him to fuck off would suffice, but she insisted. And when I asked her what she was planning to tell him, she said “the truth!” That I didn’t want them to see each other alone! WTF!? I was very upset, and said that it was none of his fucking business, and why on earth were his feelings more important than mine!? HUGE RED FLAG! So, having had no SI at the time, I agreed with hopes of making this shit sandwich go away. She went the following morning and supposedly told him, but looking back now, I’m pretty sure she told him that they would stop going out together, and instead, they would continue to communicate at school and over email. (Edit: this was a very sore point for me and still is. If I was in POSOMs shoes, what sort of message is WW sending when she tells him that her husband doesn’t want them hanging out together, but she’s going against his wishes and telling him that she wants the relationship to continue using other means!?)

I’d never heard of the term “gaslighting” until I started reading on SI, and at this stage there was a whole load of it going on. She really made me doubt myself; that I was blowing things out of proportion, and that this simply was a platonic friendship, and that “it just happens that this person is a male”. I couldn’t keep it in anymore and decided to call my brother to run this whole shit show by him and see what he thinks. No surprise, he said it was completely wrong and that he would never be ok with his wife pulling a similar stunt.

Life at home started to deteriorate at this point, my WW was distant, not happy and very annoyed with me. I unfortunately panicked and did all the wrong things. I never begged or cried, but I certainly did the pick me dance and clearly came across as being very weak. Over the following month, my WW kept coming back to me and demanding her “freedom” to see OM alone. But little did I realize at the time, that they had basically transferred their meetings to the school and email. They would arrive at school at the same time and stay behind to chat, and then take the kids to the playground after school and spend an hour together there (there were others parents at the playground). every day! Also, WW started to blow dry her hair (something she did on special occasions only) twice a day, once before drop off and another before pick up. I really struggled during those weeks. The infidelity diet had me lose 36 lbs! Our communication at home came to a screeching halt, it basically consisted of good morning, and how was your day in the evening. It was obvious that she was getting her emotional fill from somewhere else.

Towards the end of the year, I decided that maybe MC was the answer (of course not! but I didn’t have SI to tell me that). It was a total disaster, for starters, the counsellor was completely useless, and on our first counselling session she told him that she wanted her COMPLETE freedom to do whatever she wants, including going on hikes alone with the OM, or spending the day together at the mall! I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. I felt that she somehow convinced him that the OM was just a friend, and the counsellor saw nothing wrong with what was going on. Including that I was hurting more than I ever did in my life, but she still saw no reason to stop it! How could that ever be acceptable in a marriage, even if it was truly just a “friendship”!? For obvious reasons, MC went no where, and even worse, the counsellor started to avoid the issue, and steer the sessions in other directions. Another term I never knew before SI was, rewriting marriage history. I sat in those sessions listening to WW tell the counsellor how controlling I’ve been throughout the marriage, and what an overall bad husband I was for not helping her with the kids. Those were my darkest days. I sunk so low, and I wasn’t sleeping. It was the support of a dear friend that kept me going!

Realizing that MC was a complete disaster, I needed a different plan. I decided to ask my brother to help me navigate through this shit show. At that point we were still convinced that WW would never do anything wrong (like I said, this was completely out of character), and my brother was convinced that she was being stupid and naive and that she was trying to prove a point. And that the POSOM will most certainly show his true colors (i.e. wanting a PA), at which point, she’ll wake up and realize that she fucked up. So he suggested I tell her that she’s a free woman, and can do whatever she wants. That was a hard pill to swallow, but I went with it. I told her that, and I surprisingly got a lukewarm response. I think it’s because she thought I was baiting her. But to my surprise, the holidays were upon us, and in between Christmas and New Year, WW comes to me and says that she’d like to get together with the OM and wanted to know what works for me, her and the kids going over to his place, or them coming here. Wow, I didn’t expect that. But I thought on my feet, and said, they can come here but with the OBS as well. She said fine, and came back later in the day to tell me that they are coming over at the end of the week, and that OBS is busy, and won’t be able to make it! Of course not! Was I stupid enough to think that they would involve the OBS! (I want to add here that all along, I’d always tell WW that it was not acceptable for her and the OM to communicate privately over email, and more so because I wasn’t allowed to read what they wrote each other. She always maintained that email between them was one liners, such as: have a great weekend or have a good day. But whenever I asked to to read any of the emails, the answer was always NO! And even worse, she said something along the lines of it not being ethical because people expect only the receiver to read the email. It seems again, protecting the OMs feeling is more important!) Anyways, a day or two later, I was in the kitchen next to WWs phone and it lights up with two email notifications from OM on the lock screen. I call WW over and tell her that she has two emails from OM, and that we’re going to read them together. She gets super pissed and accuses me of controlling her and invading her privacy, and squirms, but finally unlocks her phone. I didn’t get what they were talking about, it was an “inside joke”. I was upset, and this time I basically said that I was completely done with OM. It was over, I wanted him out of our life for ever. WW was upset as well, and said fine. But again, she needed to see him to tell him that. So she cancelled them coming over, and had planned to tell him when school started after the holidays, about a week later. That week was a very dark week. WW wasn’t talking to me at all, didn’t want to be in the same room as me, didn’t want me to touch her, nothing! Also, all notifications on her phone were turned off. As that week progressed, I panicked. Paralyzed with fear that I’m going to lose my family (no SI to tell me that I need to risk losing my marriage to save it!), I kept trying to get closer to WW, talk to her, be affectionate towards her, but nothing was working. On the final day before she was to go and tell the OM, I was totally panicked and decided to change my mind again in the hopes of fixing things, and told her that I can’t possibly tell her what she can and cannot do, and that again, she’s free to do what she pleases. I couldn’t believe her response, in an instant, she went from completely ghosting me for a week, to being loving, affectionate and sweet. WTF! But I was happy (or so I thought) to have her back.

It’s the new year, and school started. I watched in pain as WW started going out after drop off, on a weekly basis, with POSOM. They would spend 2-3 hours together each time, and that’s over and above the time they spent in the hallways of the school. WW was happy, and willing to give me all the affection and sex to keep me quiet. But obviously, there is a limit to the number of shit sandwiches one can chew, and I started to get depressed again. My mom at this point started to question me about all the weight loss and sadness, I wouldn’t tell her. But my brother did, and my parents freaked. They absolutely adored WW, thought the world of her, treated her like the daughter they didn’t have. WW was still unaware that my parents know the story now. By early Feb. it was pretty obvious that I wasn’t doing well, even WW noticed and started to question me about my sadness, and I resisted, until finally I boiled over and explained that what she’s doing is emotional abuse, and it has gone too far! We had a heated discussion, and I told her (after she’d told me throughout this that the OBS was fully aware of their “friendship” and was OK with it) that outings with OM are suspended until the four of us get together (WW, myself, OM, and OBS) and OBS tell me to my face that she’s OK with this shit! A few days later, WW comes to me and says that she’s ending the “friendship” with the OM! No shit! How did I see that coming! And surprise, surprise, she wants to tell him in person, and the only day that worked for both, was valentines day! WTF!?

In my hopes to fix things early on, I’d planned a really nice family vacation that was coming up. After WW supposedly broke up with the OM, and before we left on vacation, WW comes to me and says that in the name of honesty, and with hopes of me not making a big deal, POSOM had given WW a fiction book (during their valentine breakup session) to take on vacation since she was an avid reader (WW hadn’t started reading the book yet). I kept my cool. We left on vacation, and everyone was having a great time. To my surprise, WW stayed away from all electronics which was very encouraging, but she kept reading the book. The day before we were to return, and while everyone was at the beach, I decided to research what that book was all about, and nothing interesting came up. So I picked up the book from the nightstand and skimmed through, and BINGO!! The motherfucker had written her an I love you note dispersed throughout the book. I couldn’t believe that after all these months, I’d finally found what I was looking for! (that’s why everyone on SI says trust your gut!) I stayed calm, and decided that I would lay low and not say anything. But I couldn’t believe that WW kept the book around, and continued to read it! What guts! I tried to put my feet in her shoes, and thought that I’d dispose of the book the second I saw the contents, but clearly, that book meant something special to her. We fly home, and the following day after we arrive, WW comes to me and does another “in the name of honesty” bullshit (because it was supposedly over between them) and says that she exchanged a couple of emails with the OM that day. I was stunned, and immediately confronted her on the book. She was shocked, and had the audacity to try and deflect by questioning why I was going through her things!? She quickly minimized and tried to convince me that what OM meant was that he “liked” her by saying he loved her, not in a romantic way. It was a pretty hell evening of back and forth. (As a side note, I still don’t know what the future will bring, but if there is one thing that I will probably regret not doing for the rest of my life, it’s me staying quiet about the book and serving her right then and there! I know that if I had you guys with me then, you’d all be on side!) Realizing that the shit hit the fan, WW finally admitted that the book was completely inappropriate, and that she was “sorry” she hurt me, but she was completely insistent that she did nothing wrong! She kept maintaining that she always conducted herself with honour, and that she’d had many chats with the OM about the platonic nature of their “friendship”. Her new defence line after that point, was that “she has no control over other peoples actions”. To which I replied that there are other moms at the school, did they get books for valentines from him too? Anyways, the outcome of that discussion was that I demanded complete and total NC. No more bullshit. No talking to him at school, no email, no nothing. I couldn’t fucking believe that she tried again to say she’ll want to see him to deliver the NC in person!

Fate would have it that our eldest was having issues at this school, and he got expelled just before we left on vacation. He was to start at a new school, and although we both agreed that the youngest would move to the new school as well, WW (of course) felt that DS2 should finish out the year at this school before moving. I had another heated discussion with WW, in it I informed her that my parents know about everything, including the little love note. She was floored, especially because she had a very close relationship with my dad, and couldn’t believe that I would tell my parents. A switch flipped in her at that instant, and she went from being slightly regretful, to completely cold! From what I understood, the only thing she regrets about the whole situation, is her not disposing of the book! She had every intention (and even told me to my face) of never telling me about it. In her words, why would she ever want to put herself in the position of me freaking out over it! If that’s the case, then what else is WW hiding??? What else am I suppose to not see or hear because of my reaction? What kind of fucking marriage is this?

To the best of my knowledge, NC was in place. I don’t think that she was seeing the OM because she was now shuttling between two schools that are far apart, and with little time. She was also very sad, and I’m sure pinning for the OM in a big way (I could be wrong). Any attempt on my part to try to talk to her was always shutdown by her saying that she needs time. Time to digest, and introspect. Things at home were bad again. I couldn’t believe that in one of my attempts to talk to her, she tells me that what happened is totally “fixable”. She would tell the OM that the book was inappropriate and that their relationship was strictly platonic, and if both sides were in agreement, problem solved! They go back to being “friends”. WoW! Another baffling argument was her not understanding why I was upset about the book! WTF!? She says it shouldn’t upset me. It was something between her and the OM, and she’s dealing with it. Her words: “It’s not like he got anything out if it!?” Is she from another planet??

I found SI at this stage, and quickly realized how horribly I’d dealt with this shit sandwich. I read Spacegoats thread with extreme envy, and wished that was me, wished I had the strength and self-respect to do the same thing he did. I cried a lot during that time. Somehow the realization that there were crushed souls out there, just like me, was immensely comforting. I also quickly realized that I needed to expose to the OBS. I recall mentioning it to my mom in passing, along with OBSs name.

The kids had a two week spring break, it was relatively calm at home. We were all out one weekend, during the break in WW’s car, and we stop briefly at WW’s place of work for her to pick something up, I wait in the car with the boys. Suddenly I look in the rear view mirror and the scumbag OM is parked behind us with a BIG smile on his face thinking he’d just run into WW alone. Before I could get out of the car to deal with the situation, WW comes running out, says something to him and he takes off in a hurry. Another argument ensues, another shit sandwich.

School starts again, and I come home on the first day back, head to the bedroom to change, and WW follows me in, closes the door and unleashes a hell storm on me because it turns out that my mom got through to the OBS and told her everything! And guess what?? The OBS has no fucking idea! She knew of WW because they met at a birthday party, before this shit storm started. OBS told my mom that their marriage had been on the rocks for a long time, and that “WW can have POSOM, that would be her greatest punishment!” When I asked my mom when she actually called her, turns out it was on the first day of spring break. So when POSOM parked behind us, it was post OBS knowing! I guess he’s not opting to throw WW under the bus! I find that surprising, OBS is the breadwinner, and without her, he’s worth shit! Another heated discussion, I basically told WW that if my mom didn’t call OBS, I was planning to. She called my mom a liar, because mom supposedly told OBS that WW and I were divorcing, but mom says she never did. Anyways, I couldn’t take anymore shit sandwiches, and told WW at the end that we’ve really come to a cross road, and that we really have two choices in front of us. We either try to fix this fucked up situation, or we D. She said she didn’t want D and that she loved me.

A week later, WW comes to me and says that she’s moving DS2 out of the school to be in the new one with DS1. I was shocked, but very happy to hear that! I was initially extremely encouraged by the news, but with her complete lack of remorse (or regret for that matter), I questioned her true motivation. I think she did that for two reasons. One, she’s probably worried about running into OBS at the school (although OBS almost never goes there, she’s very successful and works hard long hours). Two, WW was readying to tell the story to her parents, who have been away through most of this shit storm. I’m certain that she told them an extremely watered down version, with a happy ending. That she had a “friend” parent at the school, he got the wrong idea (through no wrong doing on her part), and when he gave her the book, she told him to fuck off, and moved both kids to another school. There is a lot more that I didn’t talk about regarding her parents, I was their prized son-in-law, they loved me as their own son. And although they took my side early on, they quickly turned on me when they realized that they could lose their daughter(s) (WW has two sisters that are no friends of this marriage) who gave them hell for not unconditionally supporting WW through this. Both of us now have strained relationships with our in-laws, more so for WW than me. WW doesn’t talk to my mom anymore, and won’t visit my dad (who she supposedly adores) after he recently had 7 hours of life threatening surgery, and is still in active recovery.

Life at home right now is bare minimum. WW and I get along very well, we are pleasant to each other, still having sex (never initiated by her anymore, but it’s my only outlet and that’s how I self-medicate). I think she expects me to just rugsweep this (because she still vehemently denies doing anything wrong), and so far it has been rugswept. I feel we are somewhere around option 3 of Linda MacdDonald’s book. Doomed to failure? Prior to this shit storm, life was sweet. I’d always plan romantic weekend getaways for us, head to beautiful inns in the country, and have special romantic dinners. I’d tell WW how much I loved her, how much I appreciate her. Shower her with love and affection. Tell her how sexy she is, kiss every bare spot on her body. She would always touch me, rub my ears as we take long country drives together, leave me special notes around the house, call me during the day to hear my voice. All that is gone. It fills me with so much sorrow and sadness. It feels like I’ve lost everything. This is the woman that I thought the world of, but she’s someone else right now.

I’m stuck. I don’t know what to do (actually, I probably do, but afraid to do it). I worry for my children. I worry for me. What will life be like if I stay. What will life be like when I come back to an empty home. I’m not embarrassed to say that I’m scared. I was sent to boarding school when I was a very young boy, and I often wonder if fear of abandonment is the result. I feel paralyzed. Like I’m living a nightmare that never ends. I wish the pain would go away. I don’t smile anymore. I lost my sense of humour. I lost my joy for life.

Thanks for listening, and for taking the time out of your day to read my story. I need your help and support to get through this, and for that I’m eternally grateful.

Lioness2017 posted 8/27/2017 16:35 PM

Hi

I'm so sorry you are here but are amongst good folk as you have probably figured. So 1) I'm sending you a virtual hug 2) you said I'm stuck I don't know what to do but you do you're afraid. Can you share what it is you're afraid of?

I was with my stbxwh for 21 yrs, 5 months ago was my dd totally out of the blue, 5 1/2 months ago I was blisssfully married and unaware. Now my ex has been moved out a month (after pointless R) and we are divorcing, I'm not happy, it sucks but I will survive, you will too, yes it's scary but you really deserve better! I have a 6 yr old btw, I would NEVER do anything to hurt him, it's all on POS Ex, set a good example to your kids you deserve better and so do they.

OrdinaryDude posted 8/27/2017 17:06 PM

Sorry you're here brother.

Man, I got worked up just reading that...it sucks!

First, take some time to read in The Healing Library, linked in the yellow box in the upper left corner of the page, and also read The Tactical Primer thread at the top of this forum.

I would suspect that they are still in contact and are just waiting for a chance to get together.

Something you need to understand is that your WW is dangerous to you right now, she is angry and hurt that you took away her "friendship" and she may lash out.

You need to invest in a couple of VARs (voice activated recorders, available at walmart or best buy)...one for her car (hide it under the seat with velcro) and one for you to carry on your person when you are around her, because she is going to get angrier soon if you do whats really needed.

First, stop sleeping with her until you both have STD screenings done, insist on this no matter what she says, you really don't know if they were never physical.

Second, let her know that you are not going to control her, that she is free to do as she pleases, but inappropriate behaviors and friendships, etc, will not be accepted as long as you are married to her. If she insists on continuing these behaviors then she will no longer be your wife.
If she says she wants to stay married, insist that she take a polygraph to establish if she is being truthful concerning their relationship.

BUT, be ready and willing to file for D if she balks, or fails the poly...and be sure she understands this.

[This message edited by OrdinaryDude at 5:08 PM, August 27th (Sunday)]

Stevesn posted 8/27/2017 17:16 PM

Arbuom

I'm sorry you have endured so much pain. It really makes my heart ache to hear it.

But since it seems you've been lurking here for a while, so I think you actually know what you need to do.

Whether it was from the first day you heard POSOMs name out of your wife's lips or if it's today, you need to take full control. You can start this ANY time.

Now that does mean taking control from your side. And when doing that, the possibility remains that your M may end. But realistically the M that you knew had been over for a while now, hasn't it.

That said, you no where near have a remorseful wife in front of you. She does not feel your pain at all. And until you do (and it may never happen) you need to start down the path of getting out of her infidelity. Even if they have never touched (which I highly doubt) she has had an ongoing emotional affair with this guy and she has lied to you every step of the way.

She is more his wife than yours. So you need to take the steps to end things one way or another.

And it's not by just telling her she can do what she wants. It's by telling her she can do what she wants, but not as your wife. It's ok to push her toward him, but only if while doing it you tell her she will be ending the marriage.

Being in a M where one spouse is pining away for someone else is not being in a marriage at all. It's a sham. Don't let your children grow up modeling after a loveless marriage. It will affect them worse than having divorced parents how end up with happy relationships apart from each other.

I know it's hard, but it's really the greatest chance to save your family. It's far from guaranteed. But the path you are on is doomed to fail.

So tell her "I know you are in love with him and not me. Therefore I will not stand in your way of happiness. You can be with him. I have contacted a lawyer and we will end this marriage so we both can find happiness. I am committed to coparenting with you for the rest of our lives but I won't be married to someone that loves someone else."

Then only talk to her about money and the kids. That's it.

In fact here are the steps you should be taking right now. Please find the strength to start doing these things. You and your kids deserve to be happy. It won't happen on the path you are all on.

I really wish you good luck.

Here are the types of things you should be doing just to get her to a point where she is remorseful enough to even start working on R. You are no where near that point right now.

1) you should get a lawyer. Call tomorrow. Go interview a couple next week. When you settle on one find out your options. Tell them to draft D papers to be served at your notice

2) get in IC. If you are not already find one that specializes in infidelity

3) open your own bank account at another bank. Move half your joint money to it.

4) Contact the OBS. Don't tell WS you are going to talk to the OBS. It's none of their freakin business. You need to coordinate with OBS so you both know what is going on.

5) full on implementation of the 180 (read it in the Healing Library). Until she gets her head out of her ass you don't need to talk to her about anything but finances and kids (if you have kids). Again... SHE IS NOT YET REMORSEFUL so there is no reason to talk to her about anything else. If she is still in love with him and talking to him there is no way R can work so stick to the basics

6) STD TESTING. Did you get that done yet? If you know it was a PA make sure you are healthy and no sex with her until she proves he is healthy and NC.

7) Expose to close friends and family. You need support in this difficult time. Don't sell your close relationships short. You'd help them if they'd ask so give them the chance. "My WS has falling in love with someone else. Whether we R or D i hope I can count on you to be there when things get tough for us"

8) tell her to leave. That she can go be with the OM if that is what makes her happy. Kick her out if that is what it takes. You don't want to be with her if she is going to be pining away for someone else

[This message edited by Stevesn at 5:18 PM, August 27th (Sunday)]

goalong posted 8/27/2017 17:28 PM

Feminization of men at its best. Show some balls my friend act like an alpha to have some traction if at all you want to save this marriage with this uncaring woman.
Sad that you were victimized by her. But then you got victimized again and again by your own actions/attitude until even your uncaring WW noticed it. WW is not the whole world. You should have immediately taken action to end it to save it. The best response is to thrive as best as you can in YOUR life.
Take an example from OBS. Looks like she could not care less of what her free loading POS hubby is doing. She may be having her own life and making sure her professional life is on track

[This message edited by goalong at 5:52 PM, August 27th (Sunday)]

GoingCrazyNow posted 8/27/2017 17:36 PM

I felt like you were writing my story! I am so sorry you are going through this, I KNOW the pain you are going through. I was with my WW for 21 years, married almost 10- have 3 kids age 8,7 and 4. The loneliness will subside, and you will accept and learn to feel better about yourself. I am 5 months since DD and spending my first summer vacation solo with my 3 kids. Like you, I have an excellent job and paid every bill in the house and gave my WW every luxury she wanted- but she's been rewriting history and vilifies me for everything.

I recommend talking to a lawyer and going to the and lift some
weights 6 days a week. The excercise will release a ton of endorphins and testosterone and make you feel
Better- seriously.

My WW tried playing the "my husband is controlling becaus he won't let me have male friends", gaslighting me, and making me think I was crazy. ALL of her friends could see through it and are 100% on my side.

Good luck me friend, sorry you are here

OrdinaryDude posted 8/27/2017 18:16 PM

Yeah the whole "male friends" thing, my wife didn't like that either...no fucks given.

She has a permanent decision to make...give up her male friends willingly or get divorced, it's that simple.

bobdobalina posted 8/27/2017 18:52 PM

It's easy to call him a friend when actual she was falling in love with him and with the lack of concern for your feelings you were taking Second place .
Any reason you didn't contact this man and confront him it may have made things end between them
It must have been torture to watch this unfold before your eyes with her and him blatantly dating as if they were single which suposidly kicked off from a day in the pool if not before

Sharkman posted 8/27/2017 19:05 PM

You don't know what to do?

Here is your punch list for the next week. You MUST DO each of these itemize

1. Speak with OBS yourself. This is of paramount importance
2. Read Pineapple's thread 5 times. Schedule a polygraph.
3. Have your ass sitting in a lawyers off by Thursday at the latest. You are not filing, you are understanding your rights
4. Read the 180 plan 180 times. Live by it.

There are other items but these are the first four. You MIST do these things.

Oh, when you speak with OBS you will quickly learn if No Contact is actually in place.

You are also going to need to do some forensics on her phone, but you need to wait until you have spoken with a lawyer. Does she use gmail?

YOU MUST DO ALL OF THESE THINGS THIS WEEK. It sucks, but you can either bemoan doing them or man up and start putting this shit behind you.

MidnightRun posted 8/27/2017 20:03 PM

Contact obs immediately, and a lawyer.

Follow the advice given here by seasoned SI posters. They've collectively seen this kind of shit thousands of times.

Separately, your wife has too much time on her hands. She needs a damn job.

Demand poly, then gauge her reaction.

VAR. Camera, too.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 8:23 PM, August 27th (Sunday)]

arbuom posted 8/28/2017 06:43 AM

To all, I’m speechless! No words can describe my gratitude for your support, thank you!

I’ll try to answer some of the questions.

I’m afraid of the unknown. I don’t know any life other than the one that I have now. I’ve been coming home to my family everyday for the past 13 years. I can’t fathom not having that anymore. The thought absolutely shreds me inside. I realize that I have no choice, but I guess I still can’t believe that this is happening to me.

At this stage, I’m less concerned about the continuance of the A (although I’m pretty certain that it’s dead), and more concerned about WW’s complete lack of remorse. She doesn’t even acknowledge that there was ever an A to begin with. It’s one thing to acknowledge the A and be unremorseful, and it’s a totally different ball game when you’re not even past the A part. WW has gone full force on rewriting marriage history, and basically saying that the last 6-9 years have been absolutely terrible. She claims that this friendship was the catalyst to exposing her extreme unhappiness. In other words, she’s blame shifting the shit out of this. I should paste here the text in the cards she wrote me over the years, I read them and wonder what the fuck happened.

This is spot on.


That said, you no where near have a remorseful wife in front of you. She does not feel your pain at all. And until you do (and it may never happen) you need to start down the path of getting out of her infidelity. Even if they have never touched (which I highly doubt) she has had an ongoing emotional affair with this guy and she has lied to you every step of the way.

She is more his wife than yours. So you need to take the steps to end things one way or another.


Thanks for sharing your story, GoingCrazyNow. I’m sorry you had to go through that. You are clearly much stronger than I am, but I will eventually get there.

I’ve done all the things mentioned already. I’ve spoken to a lawyer (although I should still get a second opinion). Nothing exciting came out of it, Our situation is straight forward, everything down the middle, with means her getting big $$. The only thing I haven’t done is talking to the OBS, which I’m not against, but don’t see the point at this stage. I’m not trying to pretend that I know more than you guys, but what’s the point of flogging a dead horse!? You’ve all said, time and time again, that there is absolutely no hope of R with an unremorseful wife! And that’s the situation that I’m in now.

I think my only hope at this stage, given the good relationship with WW right now, is to negotiate a good settlement for both of us without giving the lawyers a third of our money. What do you guys think of that?

Thanks again for all the support. I will somehow get through this.

[This message edited by arbuom at 1:18 PM, August 28th (Monday)]

scorpio6 posted 8/28/2017 08:45 AM

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I have a similar situation in that my WH has done things that I consider cheating. He feels he has done nothing wrong.

I sense from reading your story that you truly would like to reconcile, but you need your WW to see what's she's done and actively try to repair the damage.

I also want to reconcile with my WH. I have explained on several occasions how his actions have hurt me and impacted our relationship. Have you had these conversations with your WW? I feel my WH and I have made progress because he has at least agreed to change course for the future. So I've let go of the desire to hear an admission of guilt for the promise of change. He eventually apologized for hurting me. Does that make sense?

As for your WW's stance on "she has no control over other peoples actions", yes, agree. What about her actions that led OM on? (Spending a lot of time with OM, confiding in him, etc.) If she wasn't sending off the wrong signals, he would have not written the I Love You message in the book. So if she can see how her actions hurt you (and others too), then maybe she can agree that wasn't good judgment and promise to steer clear of those situations in the future.

I know others have given advice to act more aggressively. I would be careful about moving out or kicking her out. It will impact your parenting time, and you become the non custodial parent.

[This message edited by scorpio6 at 11:32 AM, August 28th (Monday)]

moxamm posted 8/28/2017 11:08 AM

saying that the last 6-9 years have been absolutely terrible.

poor poor ww

go visit a lawyer NOW

and i think the best thing you can do for yourself

is separate from her

Ponus18 posted 8/28/2017 11:31 AM

I'm sorry you find yourself here Arb. A couple of thoughts to add to the already good advice here:

- It sounds like you're saying you'd like to shortcut some of the steps Stevesn and Sharkman have proposed for you because you're convinced there will be no R and so it's pointless. But based on what you've written, I don't think you really have written off the M and have resigned to R at this point. Forgive me for saying this, but I think it's a rationalization/cop-out for not moving forward with some difficult necessary first steps to take control of this tough situation. The reality is that there's no way to know at this point what is going to happen with your WW in the months to come once you step up to the plate and start controlling the action. You may wind up with the most remorseful WW in SI history. Maybe not. But it's way too early to know until she begins to understand the seriousness of the situation and realizes she's going to lose you.

- I think that once you get the ball rolling with the steps recommended to you, you're going to want to know the whole truth about what's gone on between WW and POSOM. It sounds like you've been reading a lot of other threads here and so you know the importance of finding out the truth in order to deal with it, rather than rugsweeping the whole thing. That's going to mean doing the usual PI work recommended around here - going through emails, cell phone, texts and apps, VARs and the like.

- Good job recognizing the blame shifting efforts. You know that none of this is your fault. Keep your gaslighting and blameshifting radar on high alert, and when the sh*t really hits the fan, brace yourself for the love bombing.

Hang in there brother.

Limboaz posted 8/28/2017 11:50 AM

I totally agree with Ponis18,

It's absolutely true that your wife is not remorseful, she is not even regretful because she is in a fog and in denial. That doesn't mean she will never be remorseful.

As he suggested, you need to gather evidence as to the extent of the affair. Most women who are "in love" with a guy who they feel loves them will open themselves up sexually, so be braced for that as a possibility. She was reading POSOM's sweet nothings your entire vacation

Gather as much evidence as you can, confront her, expose her actions, and then play hardball with the 180 and divorce proceedings (which you can always stop at any time).

Best of luck.

JC109 posted 8/28/2017 12:06 PM

I am not in your shoes so I need to be nice....But man, an emotional affair has been unfolding in front of you, she has been flaunting it, and you haven't done ANYTHING. Did you have any boundaries in your marriage...Like not hanging out with males on a 1-1 friendship situation? coming home to see her in a skimpy bikini with a man alone (and he excuse of the kids) should have been a HUGE rd flag to stop this immediately. There is nothing ok with that. I would have said "this is inappropriate to me, not OK, and this friendship is over". If she says no, then you tell her to start thinking about moving out.


You have to put your foot down...although it may be too late. She is infatuated and doesn't much care about your feelings so it s a tough spot that you allowed to happen. They are probably still in contact.

If your wife thought it was OK to swim with a dude alone I would have said OK....hired an escort,, tell her to play "being a friend from work", come home to swim with you alone in a skimpy bikini, do it while you knew your wife would come over, and see what your wife thought of that. And jus respond "ah, a friend from work who wanted to see our pool".

[This message edited by JC109 at 12:16 PM, August 28th (Monday)]

JC109 posted 8/28/2017 12:11 PM

And by the way, with that level of communication, time lapse, and infatuation....she already had sex with this guy. Sorry but that is almost certain so I would brace for that.

[This message edited by JC109 at 12:16 PM, August 28th (Monday)]

Marriagesucks posted 8/28/2017 12:32 PM

My wife is allowed to have male friends... but...they had better be first and foremost GOOD friends of mine. This went far beyond a casual hi there... now and then. They used the cloak of darkness of playdates to conduct an affair. I would be very surprised if your boys don't have at the very least a general idea of something inappropriate going on between the 2 lovebirds. First off guaranteed this is more than an EA... much more. The OM is not in this relationship just for idle chit-chat. Scumbags like OM will tickle your WW ears to get to the prize(your wife). Have you thought about hiring a PI to get the goods on them? If you end up D it could make a difference in how things go down for... leverage purposes. The reason you tell OM wife is she has the right to know what her scumbag husband has been upto, and it's likely that she may know something that you don't.

Marriagesucks posted 8/28/2017 12:38 PM

Fate would have it that our eldest was having issues at this school, and he got expelled just before we left on vacation.
Do you know what his issues are? Could it be other classmates know what is going on and he is being heckled about it? Kids his age can be VERY cruel.

The1stWife posted 8/28/2017 13:27 PM

I am so sorry for you and your children. Please know your W is acting like a typical Cheater. 100%!!

She basically flaunted this A in your face.

She knew the "friendship" crossed the line of acceptance when they continued to meet for coffee. My H had a 4 year EA and I told him ftom day one this girl liked him more than a friend. He did not like her in any romantic way BUT she was around b/c he loved the ego boost.

Do not suffer like I did with denial and stonewalling and gaslighting.

You MUST get your power back if you are to repair the M.

That is the most important step. When I told my H to leave after his last A b/c I no longer was willing to put up with his second A - he knew I meant business!!!

And he has tried to make amends every day since then.

So being the kind and supportive wife didn't work to stop the A permanently. But kicking HIM to the curb was like a bucket of cold water that snapped him out if it.

others have posted all great suggestions. My H's second EA

[This message edited by The1stWife at 1:28 PM, August 28th (Monday)]

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