Return to Forum List

Return to Just Found Out

SurvivingInfidelity.com® > Just Found Out

You are not logged in. Login here or register.

Too much pain and sorrow

Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21

GoingCrazyNow posted 9/5/2017 17:11 PM

Bardo- I was like you 5 months ago. I now realize that I needed to fix myself first (in the head), and love myself again. I don't want to derail this thread, so start a new one and I'd like to contribute to it.

waitedwaytoolong posted 9/5/2017 17:19 PM

You are doing the right thing with the 180. She expects you to kiss her ass. She thinks she is in so much demand right now. You don't have to ambush with papers, but let hr know you want out. You can always switch courses if things change.

She needs a hard shock to her fantasy world.

Jduff posted 9/5/2017 18:37 PM

I want a girlfriend now, haha. I know that's stupid and unhealthy and there are 100 reasons why it's a bad idea without healing at least a little first. Just being honest with my emotions though. Did you have the same feeling so soon?

I'm going to answer this in your own thread.

MidnightRun posted 9/5/2017 19:18 PM

Jduff,

Wonderful, wonderful post--particular the points about the kids, and future happiness.

This was deft insight, and should be required reading for many BHs.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 7:44 PM, September 5th (Tuesday)]

arbuom posted 9/5/2017 19:25 PM

Iím in a fountain of tears, Jduff

How could I possibly even come close to doing this post any justice, I donít have the words! Iím speechless, and still crying.

It takes a special kind of person to write a heartfelt (and long) post like this to a complete stranger on the internet. Iíve often felt bad for suffering BSís out there that have not found SI, and are enduring this hell storm in silence. This place is incredible!

A heartfelt thank you! You are a good man, Jduff.

Everything about your post has been incredibly informative. I plan to read it everyday, and maybe even multiple times if Iím feeling down. Today has been a great day for me on SI, Iím feeling strong, and feeling the love from everyone.

Iím actually not fearing the dating scene at all. My comment about starting from scratch was more from a sorrow perspective, that it was a complete waste to flush a perfectly good family down the toilet. I worked really hard to build the empire that we have, and I'm about to watch half of it go away. It sucks. But I guess this is reality. It could be worse I guess, I could have terminal cancer!

One thing I want more than anything (which I suspect you got), is to look back years down the roads, and say: this was the best fucking decision I ever made!

I salute you, Jduff.

arbuom posted 9/5/2017 19:31 PM

bardo

I, along with arbuom, am so horrified with single life. Coming home to an empty house some days. The grey, bleak days of a Michigan winter ahead of me. LIfe looks so bleak. My best friend of 13 years will be gone from my life completely. I have two wonderful boys (7 and 4) who I can pour my love into, but I feel that's all I have (despite my mom's support and a few great friends). Everything feels so bleak.

I felt the same way when I was fresh like you, but take comfort that it slowly fades. It comes mostly from you being in denial, and from being in love with what your WW used to be before the A. As time passes, and you start realizing that your old wife ain't coming back, the feeling starts to fade...

Stay strong brother!

[This message edited by arbuom at 7:31 PM, September 5th (Tuesday)]

MidnightRun posted 9/5/2017 19:31 PM

Arb,

Yes, Jduff was masterful.

bardo posted 9/5/2017 21:03 PM

BS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:27 PM, October 3rd (Tuesday)]

bardo posted 9/5/2017 21:03 PM

BS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:29 PM, October 3rd (Tuesday)]

Jduff posted 9/5/2017 21:32 PM

arbuom, deep down we were and are all good husbands and fathers in our own situations. Maybe we lost sight for a time and didn't exemplify that on a consistent basis due to life's challenges. Hey, we aren't perfect. But you know what, arbuom? YOU didn't handle those challenges the way your WW did. You didn't go stick your manhood in the first available hole for a bit of ego kibble therapy and some escape. All you betrayed fellas hold your heads up high on that for starters, You have integrity and you upheld your vows. Do you realize right off the bat how golden that is for starters? There are a LOT of betrayed wives here wishing their wayward husbands can be a strong in character as you all have demonstrated. And with that know there are great women out there, arbuom. Far, far more worthy women of integrity that deserve a shot at showing old arbuom that they can ADD to the quality of your life instead of sucking the life out of you. But first YOU must be healthy and capable of returning the rewards of a great relationship in kind. Your goal from here on out should be to become more authentic than you've ever been before. It is hard but man the payoff is worth it.

You STBXW? Well, she is just going to have to thrown her hat back in the ring with the rest of the higher quality candidates and right off the bat she is working from a disadvantage of burning you once already, and hard. The heart may forgive but never forgets. It'll take one hell of a transformation for her to go through to convince you to give her another consideration. You, more than anyone here, know the odds of her success and whether she is (or ever has been) capable of that kind of heavy lifting and deep introspection. I know my XW isn't. She never was. I pampered her entitled ass way too much and little did I know I had her so high on that damned pedestal I couldn't tell if she was showering me with love or if she really was just shitting on me the whole time through our M. It was a bit of both. If you are pushing for D then you know that your WW is incapable of even looking in the mirror. Your decision is good.

I'll tell you what. I theorize that if I had a way to show every newly minted BH in JFO a glimpse of what his future would be like I think a majority of them would go straight to D and not deal with the limbo, the false R, the waiting around for the remorse to surface from their WW. You will see that life really does go on. New beginnings are very real and very possible. But the key is to choose that path and work towards it, not resign yourself to circumstance. That is why I strongly believe in the shock and awe method. I believe it is best executed in a calm, efficient, no-bullshit manner like firing your WW from her duties as wife. You know what happens with a vacany. It will get filled. She knows this as well. Her first concern will very likely be what kind of woman will be her children's future step mother.

Now, there's is an interesting side effect that occurs when you start respecting yourself in these situations of infidelity and get the ball rolling on getting out of it. You begin to show your cheating spouse that your self worth is more important than the M. When they realize this they begin to feel that leverage slipping away. They no longer can control the situation or the outcome, put you in your place, dictate the terms of the relationship,sit on the fence and wait for their AP to return or another OM to take them away. Suddenly it isn't you that making the effort to save the M. You take the M off the table and they usually want to put it back for discussion. For whatever reason or motivations, the M becomes more important for your WW and she will attempt to employ whatever manipulations necessary to keep you hooked into it. Common method is sex or love bombing. I don't know how long it typically takes for the D process to finalize where you reside but use that time as your countdown. Serve her then watch her. She wants you to give her another chance? Tell her you don't want a marraige that sits on a foundation of lies. A timeline and a polygraph is necessary for starters but you aren't going to set that up for her. She needs to take the initiative. Are you really not affected if it turns out she did take it to PA? She may think she's giving herself the best chance at keeping you in the M if she hides this. It may not matter to you know but if you happen to R with her and she reveals this fact 10 years later that is another Dday to deal with. I'll tell you what a good friend of mine told me soon after my own Dday "Not many people commit to buying a new car without a test drive if you know what I mean." and he wasn't referring to my WW. He was referring to the OM in my situation, who filed D on the OBS. Wasn't the OM in your situation ok with getting a D? Think about that.

tessthemess posted 9/6/2017 01:08 AM

Arbuom, I just found your story. Mine is similar, in that the EA was flaunted in my face and I pushed and pulled like you for months...until I discovered boudoir photos of the COW. Their "innappropriate friendship" did end up being a PA for the last six weeks of it.

The A ended because he left the house to move towards separation and D. Five days after he left (and the morning after he last slept with her) he expressed wanting to come back, but I had a boundary. To me, the EA although costing me all my sanity and 20lbs for six months was not the deal breaker if he ended it, but I was not a healthy person and hadn't found SI and I wish I had. It was so toxic to our family. When I found out about the PA it was on the heels of a wonderful weekend together and I was too weak to do anything. It took five months for me to gather the mental strength to enact genuine boundaries. We've only been working on what I consider real R (despite him not cheating since the beginning of December) since mid June, and it has only begun to feel like we might survive as a couple since August.

If I had your strength where you are now back in December I would be looking back at myself with so much pride at this moment in time here in September, regardless of whether I ended up D or R by this point. This kind of emotional abuse is disgusting. They may not have always been this way, but in these wayward states they are horrible people.

Jen posted 9/6/2017 01:09 AM

hugs and more hugs

arbuom posted 9/6/2017 04:47 AM

Jduff

Your words are profound! Iím feeling really strong. For months, Iíve read here about BS empowerment, and couldnít imagine that would be me. But the tables are turning, and I finally see it. I finally feel that I have control of my future, and it feels so fucking great! The most liberating feeling of all, is me not giving a damn about WW, where she is or who sheís talking to. I used to obsessively wonder if she is still talking to POSOM or seeing him, but I donít give a damn anymore. And that alone has made me want D more than anything in the world. I feel free. I never want that ever again. I want my wife to be with me because she chooses to, because Iím the best thing that ever happened to her. Not because Iím forcing her, or that she has no other choice.

ÖAnd with that know there are great women out there, arbuom. Far, far more worthy women of integrity that deserve a shot at showing old arbuom that they can ADD to the quality of your life instead of sucking the life out of you.

Amen, brother. And the flip side to this, is that I have so much love to give. Iím a very passionate person in all aspects of my life, and especially towards those I love. I think back Ö I use to feel giddy for days leading up to a romantic weekend away with WW. I want that feeling again, but with someone that deserves it.

The heart may forgive but never forgets. It'll take one hell of a transformation for her to go through to convince you to give her another consideration.

I canít even begin to imagine what a transformation like that would look like! And I really hope it never happens (I never thought Iíd ever utter those words), because that would really fuck me up right now. You know, I find myself thinking lately, that Iím grateful for WWís honesty in her actions and words (whether she intended it or not), because if she hid her true feelings and love bombed me post finding the book, Iíd still be in false R hell.

That is why I strongly believe in the shock and awe method. I believe it is best executed in a calm, efficient, no-bullshit manner like firing your WW from her duties as wife.

Hence why Spacegoatís thread should be required reading for all new BSís!

Are you really not affected if it turns out she did take it to PA? She may think she's giving herself the best chance at keeping you in the M if she hides this. It may not matter to you know but if you happen to R with her and she reveals this fact 10 years later that is another Dday to deal with.

Although the pain would have been far more excruciating, it would've been much easier for me to walk away if this was a PA. Iíll never know. But even if there was no PA, not knowing WWís true feelings absolutely destroys me! Is she pinning for the OM? Do I want to live a life wondering if my wife loves another man? Is she thinking of him while having sex with me? Fuck that! Iím better than this. I deserve better...

arbuom posted 9/6/2017 04:52 AM

tessthemess

Thanks for sharing your story! Every single one hurts to read, and there is a new one every day.

Stay strong.

Sharkman posted 9/6/2017 05:56 AM

Can you describe how the OBS feels now? When you file for D she should be the first person that you call. It's purely for ethical reasons, your wife will either turn her focus 100% to him or 100% to you. OBS should know if that The woman she was being cheated on with now has 100% ability to do as she pleases

MidnightRun posted 9/6/2017 06:58 AM

You're on the path to real joy.

Stay the course.

Living well--and experiencing true happiness--is the best revenge.

arbuom posted 9/6/2017 08:12 AM

Sharkman

Can you describe how the OBS feels now? When you file for D she should be the first person that you call. It's purely for ethical reasons, your wife will either turn her focus 100% to him or 100% to you. OBS should know if that The woman she was being cheated on with now has 100% ability to do as she pleases

I certainly will, but only when it's the right time for me. I'm being selfish here and putting my interests first.

arbuom posted 9/6/2017 08:14 AM

MidnightRun

You're on the path to real joy.

Thank you for the support, brother!

Bigger posted 9/6/2017 08:49 AM

The path Jduff suggests in his EXCELLENT post above is the path I suggested way back on page 3 of this thread.

Iím not claiming honor or even suggesting itís a path I thought of or discovered, just like I doubt Jduff will insist itís something he thought up. Itís a path thatís been carved by hundreds or even thousands of betrayed spouses and a path many of us posting here on SI suggest because we know it works. We know it works because we have seen posters like Jduff follow the advice and walk that path to success, and we have seen others take another course and fail.

The key to the path is Ė like Jduff, Sharkman, I and others have suggested Ė is to control what you can control and to keep a determined and steady course towards a known goal.

In my last post, I suggested you need a clearer course. You didnít agree and claimed you had a clear destination to divorce, no matter what. Then in your next post you wonder why the 180 isnít working, as in itís not making her show concern or affection. Friend Ė IF your course was clear then her actions and reaction donít matter. The only concern would be possible reactions to your divorce settlement suggestions. Anything else would be a distraction.

And I get that. I truly do. Itís normal to have doubts and to hope for vindication or even some form of revenge. I do understand that divorce is tough. Itís PRECISELY because I know how tough it is that Iím suggesting ways that ALWAYS leave you an option Ė IF you want it and IF itís AVAILABLE. The goal is out of infidelity Ė but the path is called divorce. Itís an easy choice because right now as is your wife isnít willing to walk with you so the other path of reconciliation isnít open for you. So, you follow the path you can control and that is divorce.

As I have said: the paths to initial R and to D run parallel for quite some time.

IF you want a total unequivocal nothing-can-change-my-mind divorce then go for it. Donít need to do the 180 per se because you have fired her from the role of wife. Donít need to tell her why. Donít need to justify or explain it to her. Skip all that about sitting down over a cup of coffee and negotiating with your wife and being friends and amicable and all that. Those are EMOTIONS. Emotions were dealt with the DECISSION to divorce. Whatís left is pure business. Whether you tell her before you file or not is your choice. You donít ďaskĒ for a divorce, itís not a gift she gives you. You simply file for divorce and then let the process take place. She can refuse to sign, doesnít matter. She can make stupid demands, doesnít matter. You canít control that. You can only control what you do.

Donít let emotions stop you. Like your sons BDayÖ OK, great. But you should be pulling tax returns, bank statements, estate assessments, credit-card accounts, vehicle valuations, pension assessmentsÖ You should be ensuring you know your rights, obligations and are well informed so you ask your attorney the right questions and have the correct info to give him. [I guess 20-30% of attorney fees are for tasks the client could do, like getting the info needed for division of assets]

The key IMHO is to be clear on what the law allows for and right away to offer a fair settlement based on reality. Even then you can tweak numbers or assets to your advantage but IMHO there shouldnít be much more than a 5-10% difference either way from a fair initial offer to the final settlement. A side-benefit of an initial fair offer is that IF this goes to a judge he will likely side with the person being reasonable, plus a competent attorney would guide his client to accepting a fair offer.

If, however you have made the VERY LOGICAL and SENSIBLE decision that remaining in infidelity wonít work for you and that since she isnít committed to R then your ONLY option is to divorce BUT you might want to change your mind IF things changedÖ then use the ďIím getting out of infidelity with you or without youĒ speech. Other than that, then stay the course as if you are divorcing because NO MATTER WHAT YOU WANT itís still the ONLY open path for you. Itís the only one you can control.

Sharkman gave you a list of requirements if she offered R. I agree with Jduff that the WS should more-or-less offer these things by default, but realistically you arenít where you are because the WS was capable of great decisions. IF you both decide to give R a shot then someone has to lead and itís better it be you. The list is not a permanent list. The goal of R is not to end this affair. The goal of R is to create the best possible marriage. In the best possible marriage, even one without infidelity, blind trust doesnít exist. Accountable trust does though. But the list does outline some basic requirements that will need to be in place for at least a couple of years.


I do wish those that insist a wayward spouse can never be trusted again, that a marriage canít be rebuilt and the old once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater choir would keep in mind the couple that founded this site. Or the admins, mods, guides and other posters that have reconciled and have shared on this thread. Maybe many are too close to their d-day, but for those that truly reconcile then R can be a great thing. I find this comparison describes it best:

Imagine living a stressful and unhealthy life. You eat unhealthy, smoke, drink too much, donít exercise. Then one day you wake up to a searing pain in your left arm leading up to your chestÖ Two weeks later you are discharged from hospital recovering from a cardiac arrest. Your doctor tells you that you need to make major lifestyle changes to survive. So, you start eating healthy. You exercise. You stop smoking and drink in moderation. You manage your stress. Three years later you feel better and are healthier than you have been for years. At that time, you wouldnít look back and offer thanks for the cardiac arrest, but you might offer thanks for the changes you made and the work you put in. Itís the same with infidelity and reconciliation. Those that successfully do the work are grateful for the changes, but NEVER for the infidelity.

That unhealthy life and the cardiac arrest Ė that could be your marriage and the infidelity. Your changes, they could be the work of reconciliation OR it could be the process of D. Bottom line is that at some future date you want to look back and be grateful for the results of whatever course you choose.

arbuom posted 9/6/2017 10:51 AM

Bigger

Ouch, Youíre really riding me hard! But I really appreciate it, and I know that it comes from a good place. You have always been measured in your responses, and proven me wrong on a few occasions, and this one is no exception:

Then in your next post you wonder why the 180 isnít working, as in itís not making her show concern or affection.

And then this:

If, however you have made the VERY LOGICAL and SENSIBLE decision that remaining in infidelity wonít work for you and that since she isnít committed to R then your ONLY option is to divorce BUT you might want to change your mind IF things changedÖ then use the ďIím getting out of infidelity with you or without youĒ speech. Other than that, then stay the course as if you are divorcing because NO MATTER WHAT YOU WANT itís still the ONLY open path for you. Itís the only one you can control.

OK you got me! And here comes the back peddling.

See because Iím living day-to-day with WW, and given what we went through in the past year and how sheís been behaving lately (including the I will never love you again), in my eyes I see absolutely no hope in her turning around all of a sudden. It looks and feels so far fetched! The more I think about it, I realize now that Iím pushing that possibility into the bottom dungeons of my brain, that Iím not ready to think or talk about it. I donít want any hope to derail me. All I had was hope throughout the past year of torture, and look where that landed me, I became a doormat. To be fully honest, I have no idea how I will react if WW wakes up!? I will most likely come back here and ask for help. Right now, Iím trying really hard to stay focused. To not be a doormat anymore. And Iím really proud of how far Iím come!

Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21

Return to Forum List

Return to Just Found Out

© 2002-2018 SurvivingInfidelity.com ®. All Rights Reserved.     Privacy Policy