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Too much pain and sorrow

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badmemory posted 8/28/2017 14:04 PM

Iím afraid of the unknown. I donít know any life other than the one that I have now. Iíve been coming home to my family everyday for the past 13 years. I canít fathom not having that anymore. The thought absolutely shreds me inside.

Throughout this whole ordeal you decision making has been driven by your fear of divorce. And every time you erased your line in the sand, your WW respected you less.

You can make a conscious choice to change your mindset. You can stand up for yourself and regain your self respect. You have the capacity to understand why we so often say - you have to be willing to end your marriage, to have the best chance of saving it.

I like the prior poster's advice about telling your wife she's free to go, because it's obvious she values him over you. Either that or she can commit 100% to you and this marriage; but you'll no longer accept any in between.

If she turns around you've got a starting point for R. But don't ever erase your line in the sand again. Hold fast to your boundaries.

If she doesn't turn around and/or if she ever contacts the OM again; you have to have the courage to divorce her and start the next chapter of your life. If you don't, you might just as well be resigned to stay in the same mental and emotional hell.

That's my advice for what it's worth. Good luck.

[This message edited by badmemory at 2:42 PM, August 28th (Monday)]

trustedg posted 8/28/2017 14:31 PM

She has followed the cheater's handbook closely so she may continue using it. She has very poor boundaries. She isn't anywhere close to remorseful but get her "Not Just Friends" and "How to Help Your Spouse Healthy From Your Affair".

She did have a long term affair, probably PA. Get STD testing.
See an attorney and protect yourself, your kids, and your finances.
Contact OBS.
If she continues to gaslight, rewrite marital history, contact OM, 180 and file.

Best of luck. Stay strong.

arbuom posted 8/28/2017 15:33 PM

I also want to reconcile with my WH. I have explained on several occasions how his actions have hurt me and impacted our relationship. Have you had these conversations with your WW? I feel my WH and I have made progress because he has at least agreed to change course for the future. So I've let go of the desire to hear an admission of guilt for the promise of change. He eventually apologized for hurting me. Does that make sense?

I certainly have, and on a million occasions! Iíve told WW that sheís inflicted me with the worse pain Iíve ever felt in my life. One that I would never wish on my worst enemy. And that pain came from the person that I adored most in life, that I gave everything to!

I got very sad reading what I wrote above, clearly there isnít a reason why I should accept what she put me through. I think Iíve always been in denial, there is no way this is the same person I married.

And there is no question in my mind that she led the OM on. The fact alone that the OM knew that I didnít want them talking, yet she still did, sends him a clear message that she valued him more than her husband.

It sounds like you're saying you'd like to shortcut some of the steps Stevesn and Sharkman have proposed for you because you're convinced there will be no R and so it's pointless. But based on what you've written, I don't think you really have written off the M and have resigned to R at this point. Forgive me for saying this, but I think it's a rationalization/cop-out for not moving forward with some difficult necessary first steps to take control of this tough situation. The reality is that there's no way to know at this point what is going to happen with your WW in the months to come once you step up to the plate and start controlling the action.

I hear you, and I donít deny it up to this point. I think you get the impression that Iím resigning to R and that I havenít written off the M because of how sentimental I sound towards WW. Believe me when I say that Iím not resigning to R. I recognize that I have to summit everest before R is possible, and Iím tired, Iíve been through hell for the past 8 months and I have nothing left! I donít feel like doing the work if D is the answer. And D is the only thing I can see on the horizon.

I am not in your shoes so I need to be nice....But man, an emotional affair has been unfolding in front of you, she has been flaunting it, and you haven't done ANYTHING. Did you have any boundaries in your marriage.

I appreciate the 2x4ís, I think I really need them at this time to wake me up from this shit show.

We never had boundaries in our marriage because we never needed them! WW was the virgin Mary (I hope I didnít offend anyone by saying that) for the 14 years Iíve known her! She absolutely detested a friend of mine who slept around behind his wifeís back. She was always conservative in her dress, and was a devoted loving wife.


arbuom posted 8/28/2017 15:38 PM

Throughout this whole ordeal your decision making has been driven by your fear of divorce. And every time you erased your line in the sand, your WW respected you less.

You can make a conscious choice to change your mindset. You can stand up for yourself and regain your self respect. You have the capacity to understand why we so often say - you have to be willing to end your marriage, to have the best chance of saving it.

Thanks for this. I allowed myself to be her doormat, and I have nobody but myself to blame!

I'm confident, especially with the support of SI, that those days are behind me. I want to march to freedom with or without her.

xhz700 posted 8/28/2017 15:47 PM

I think my only hope at this stage, given the good relationship with WW right now, is to negotiate a good settlement for both of us without giving the lawyers a third of our money. What do you guys think of that?

My thought is that she won't be so reasonable once you flip the script. That said, you can't avoid this one (as much as you want to). The only way out of this is through it, and step one is serving her with papers. I recognize the conflict avoidance in you, mostly because of the PHD I have in it. Get thee to a library or whatever and get 'Codependent No More'.

The boundary thing is tough. It's subtle when you're just learning. My wife had no respect for me either, walked all over me. Looking back, it's pretty obvious what she was doing, and her motivations.

Bad boundary: "No, you can't go see him to end this relationship.

Bad boundary: "Sure, you can go see him to end this relationship."

Good boundary: "You are welcome to see him to end this relationship, but there will be divorce papers waiting for you when you return."

She gets to do whatever the hell she wants, forever, but not with you as her husband. I don't care if you need to fake it, but start living that right now.

Chappie posted 8/28/2017 16:11 PM

Either your wife is in denial of her actions or..........she simply doesn't give a damn. The one bright spot is she didn't cut you off from sex while this was going on. Usually, but not always,when a wife falls in love with another man, your sex life goes out the window.

There was an emotional affair for sure. However, most people do not know anything about emotional affairs. Your very first move is getting NOT JUST FRIENDS by Shirley Glass this is the definitive book on affairs. If you can get her to read it, by any means possible, there is a good chance she will have a break through about what is going on.

Tell her your going to get std tested.

If neither of these help, my bet is the affair is still going on just underground. Notwithstanding your belief it is over.

Yes, you definitely need to get together with her boyfriends wife and see what is going on. Statistically, cheating stay at home dads are high on the cheating frequency list.
She may have cut him loose. It is imperative that you verify every word that comes out of your wifes mouth. I would var her car and house unless you just want to move on to divorce.

badmemory posted 8/28/2017 16:23 PM

We never had boundaries in our marriage because we never needed them!

In your mind, you know what a reasonable marital boundary is. You told your wife the first time she was in the pool with OM, that you didn't think it was appropriate. That was crossing your boundary. You always had it, you just never had to communicate it. And you complained every time she tested you further.

But you've got to do more than complain if she doesn't respect you or her marriage enough. A complaint from you is all she should need to here. If not, right from the start, you let her know that you can't control her but you can control what you accept from her. And you're not going to accept her dating another man - no matter how hard she tries to gas light you.

Now, your boundaries will have to be even more restrictive, because she's shown you what she is capable of.

PUT...YOUR....FOOT...DOWN.

[This message edited by badmemory at 4:34 PM, August 28th (Monday)]

twisted posted 8/28/2017 16:31 PM

Your story gives me flashbacks to my own.
Nothing pisses you off more than realizing you ignoring so many red flags because you naively trusted your wife. Almost more than the cheating itself.
I don't think you mentioned if it had become a PA, ( they had sex). Due the length and situation, I think most of us think it had. The trickle truth rears its ugly head. THAT is the reason YOU need to talk to the OBS. She may have more information than you. She may know details that will help you put together the truth.

[This message edited by twisted at 5:25 PM, August 28th (Monday)]

scorpio6 posted 8/28/2017 16:55 PM


We never had boundaries in our marriage because we never needed them!

Same here. It really boils my blood that I had to explicitly say to WH that him having sexual contact with other women is outside of my boundary!

goalong posted 8/28/2017 17:29 PM

Arbuom, it is better to be late than never. For a long time you have been on your own and suffered silently. Your true family is your parents and siblings. Lean on them and just like OBS make sure your interests are looked after well. If you fail in other aspects of your life because of your cruel wife, you are victimized repeatedly. If you are not doing already start an exercise routine, it does wonders both physically and mentally

[This message edited by goalong at 5:31 PM, August 28th (Monday)]

arbuom posted 8/28/2017 19:01 PM

I don't think you mentioned if it had become a PA, ( they had sex). Due the length and situation, I think most of us think it had. The trickle truth rears its ugly head. THAT is the reason YOU need to talk to the OBS. She may have more information than you. She may know details that will help you put together the truth.

I'm certain this was an EA only, but even if it turned into a PA, I feel like I could care less at this stage. WW has literally destroyed me with what she did, and I can't imagine ever getting over it. D is all I can see on the horizon.

I still love the person I married very much, I can't begin to describe what an incredible woman she was. So beautiful on the inside and out. And I'm amazed what an A can do to a person.

arbuom posted 8/28/2017 19:12 PM

Your true family is your parents and siblings. Lean on them

Never again, goalong! That was one mistake I will never do again. I treated WW as my one and only. As my better half, my love above all. And look where that landed me.

But I won't take the blame for that. My parents have been married 51 years, and still love each like the day they were married. They are the number one person in each other's life, and that's what I saw growing up.

I told WW the other day (while referencing her coward parents), that if the tables were turned and I had a "friendship" with a woman that put her in complete distress, and that it culminated in an I love you book, my Dad would have me hanging by my balls....

Wool94 posted 8/28/2017 19:16 PM

Your story gives me flashbacks to my own.
Nothing pisses you off more than realizing you ignoring so many red flags because you naively trusted your wife. Almost more than the cheating itself.

This time 100!!!

HellFire posted 8/28/2017 19:20 PM

When distance isn't a problem, very very rarely is it not physical.

Men have affairs for the sex. They don't waste their time giving sweet looks and saying nice things, unless there is a payoff. Sex is the payoff.

You need to stop being so nice. Your wife views you as weak. She has no respect for you. You need to take control.

Give her a list of your demands,if she wants to attempt reconciliation. And make a polygraph a requirement. She knows this was an affair. And she had sex with him.

You want to believe there wasn't sex, because the reality is too painful. But being in denial isn't helping anyone

You might want to get your kids in counseling. Their mother used them to see her affair partner. Chances are, they saw or heard something at some point.

You need to protect your kids. Hold your wife accountable. She may have been a good mother before the affair. But she turned into a terrible mother. Even if the kids didn't figure out she was cheating, they felt the change in their mother. They've been as affected by this as you have.

Chappie posted 8/28/2017 20:40 PM

Over the last eight months your family has literally been torn apart. You have suffered emotionally and physically. There is no way your kids have watched what has happened to your relationship and come away unscathed.
Your son has been expelled from his school. Red flag.

Your kids need counseling. You do too.
You have been mentally abused severely. You need to find a counselor that is proficient in infidleity and PTSD. They also need to be experienced with EMDR.
Remeber the folks around here are the unfortunate experts of your tragic situation. Nothing you have said hasn't been said here hundreds, even thousands of times. Your wife is following the cheaters script just like they all do. You have followed the betryayed husband script.
That's why you will find few if any that believe this hasn't been physical and few that do not believe it is still going on or simply on hold.

Clue number one? She is treating you like they all do when exposed to the other spouse. What can they do? Move in together and live on love. He isn't giving up his free ride. His wife is already tired of this mooch it sounds like.

Have you suggested to your wife she go back to work so she can support him in the manner he is accustomed?

Have you told her to move out and you would accept full or 50/50 custody? DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOUSE OR KIDS!!!!!!!!
The divorce laws re adultery can vary greatly by state.
Educate yourself and google dadsdivorce.com for your area. They might be a great help.

If posom was done with your wife she would be singing a different tune. Have you checked her phone-financial records to see if she has contacted an attorney?

You should be keeping records of everthing she has done , said and lied about. You also need to set your phone up to record her convos/fights with you. You would be shocked how many spouses start or fake a fight to get an EPO taken out on their spouse and get them thrown out of the house and if your lucky you end up with rare supervised child visitation for months or years.

Your wife simply isn't behaving like a woman whose affair is over.

antlered posted 8/28/2017 22:51 PM

Your wife simply isn't behaving like a woman whose affair is over.
^^This.
I remember thinking that the fastest way to end my WW's affair was to divorce her. Yep, her player did not really want a real relationship with her. what a surprise! They broke up a few months after the divorce was final, which was 4 months post DDay. I probably could have reconciled at that point or even before, but one betrayal was enough, thanks.

I'd totally get an attorney's advice on any settlement. FWIW i had an attorney and settled as fast as possible while WW was in lala land and the OM hadn't yet cooled things off. Just a few months later and oh boy would it have been a fight. Right now, in terms of getting the best deal for you and the kids, speed while she's distracted is your best strategy.

I know you are scared. I was scared. 25 year relationship and me primary for two middle school aged daughters. Wasn't my life plan of course. HOWEVER, divorce was not the end of the world and life is pretty good.

Tren0R201 posted 8/29/2017 01:52 AM

WW has literally destroyed me with what she did, and I can't imagine ever getting over it. D is all I can see on the horizon.

Someone said in an earlier post this was a perfect example of feminization of a male, call it what you will feminization or emasculation and there's no doubt you contributed to this but we are human, when blindsided by the ones we trust

a) We desperately fight to try and return things to normal
b) Even though the trust has been broken we believe in the good of people that they wouldn't consciously screw us over in a way we wouldn't do to them.

No doubt you've made plenty of mistakes and SI will set you right but like most things in life you have to find it in yourself to put in the work to work on yourself.

Make no doubt this is an affair but it's the illicitness that's a drug, the sneaking around but more importantly having two men vying for her attention like some soppy romance book. The minute you ducked confronting a man that came into your house with your wife wearing a revealing swimsuit and you did nothing, she was on to you, and make no mistake she told him and they both felt emboldened by it.

As a man your duty is to your kids and showing them what a man with respect for himself stands for and what real strength looks like.

Stop chasing her around. Start to do things for yourself, go out, work out, do a hobby and read No More Mr Nice Guy. Present her with papers and put a stop to this nonsense and treat her like an adult who decisions in life have real world consequences.

arbuom posted 8/29/2017 06:37 AM

An update from last night.

WW and I havenít talked in a long time. As I mentioned in my first post, life has been bare minimum, and coasting at steady state for the past month or two. After the kids went to sleep, we retired to the couch, and got to talking.

What I wanted to achieve out this talk was some kind of finality for me to proceed with D, and although I know deep down there is no chance in hell for R, this was going to be my last hurrah before throwing in the towel. I told WW that this is not a life that either of us want to live, and she agreed. I wondered how she would ever expect me to trust her again after what happened, and her response was basically that I needed to either trust her or not. There is nothing she can do about it (Iím always amazed at her strong conviction in what she believes), I told her that she lied to me, and hid things from me, and that there will never be a chance for us to proceed without the full truth of what happened. She said that that was the full truth, I offered her to take a polygraph to prove it, and while initially saying that she of course would take one, she told me ďnot to be ridiculousĒ. I rehashed a lot of the details of the A, and she in turn reminded me of how controlling Iíve been, and how little help I gave her with the kids. I told her that in the 14 years Iíve known her, Iíve never ever reminded her of how she contributed nothing to the family fortune. I always told her that she was an incredibly devoted mother, who worked tirelessly for her family. I on the other hand was never thanked or appreciated for the hard work and stress that comes with running a business.

In the end, I finally got what I was looking for. WW has always maintained that she loved me, but she finally admitted that she doesnít love me anymore. And thatís all I needed to hear. They say actions speak louder than words, and I knew all along that her actions clearly communicated that she didnít love me anymore, but I guess that I needed to hear it. Even worse, at some point in the discussion, she practically said that she doesnít think that she can fall in love when me again anymore. I told her that given what she said, Iím completely baffled as to why she is still here!? Actually, this has been a question on my mind for months, and every time Iíve asked why she was still here, sheíd say because she loved me. This time, she said it was because she cared deeply about me, and of course about the kids. I told her that I questioned how much she really cared for me, but I can see that the reason is probably the kids. I told her that she has many examples in her friends that are divorced with kids that are doing fine. Besides, this will be the third divorce in her family, her sister has been twice divorced (but I kept that thought to myself).

It got too late and we decided to call it a night. No conclusion on anything was reached. I didnít sleep a second last night. But I know one thing for sure right now, Iím done...


Stevesn posted 8/29/2017 07:10 AM

I wish you strength as you go through this process. It is always hurtful to hear someone has fallen out of love with you.

This is the time that the 180 is most important. From now on only talk to her about kids and money and the D proceedings.

It is time for you to get the lawyer to file and serve the papers. Maybe once she sees the reality of what she has done she will somehow come out of the fog. But probably not.

Stay healthy. Eat Drink water and exercise. Stay that way for you and your kids.

Enlist the help of close friends and family. You should not have to go through this alone.

And post here and the D/S forum to ensure your thoughts are on the straight and narrow.

antlered posted 8/29/2017 08:19 AM

DHH,
It's good you got some kind of closure with her words, painful as it was to hear.
Given that her sister has been twice divorced and your conflict avoidance, you absolutely need the advice and support of a lawyer for your divorce agreement. Hate to see you get shafted.

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