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Too much pain and sorrow

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arbuom posted 8/30/2017 04:29 AM

I think you have acted with grace, clarity , and a keen sense of acuity and have done exactly what needs to be done. Your wife squandered your healing vacation reading the "love book" and then told you flat out that she doesn't love you.Everyone keeps focusing on the EA/PA component. So she loves another man more than you and he takes priority over you, but she hasn't had his penis inside her yet. Yeah ... that makes it so much better. I don't see it.
EVEN if she came groveling back out of the fog, full of remorse ,that's only half the equation. You then have to choke down the shit sandwich she served you and live with that the rest of your life.If you ever bring it up you'll be accused of living in the past and that you need to get over it. I couldn't do that, it would eventually drive me insane.
Stay the course and damn the torpedoes. You're doing great.

I don't know why certain replies make me cry, and this one certainly did! Thank you Rubix for this, I appreciate the support and validation. I think you reflect exactly what I'm feeling at this time, and that has hit cord for me.

I can completely understand where everyone is coming from on the EA/PA issue, but I've chosen to put that aside until I somehow see drastic change in WW's actions and remorse. I'm emotionally worn out, I have nothing left. WW has shoved her hand in my chest and ripped my heart out, and this is the person that I valued more than myself! WTF!?

arbuom posted 8/30/2017 08:04 AM

Quick update...

WW is being extra nice to me for some reason, I think she's feeling guilty because she hurt my feelings when she told me she didn't love me.

Somehow I don't give a flying fuck if she loves me or not, that ship has already sailed.

Staying the course...


nothisfriend posted 8/30/2017 08:25 AM

Sending you strength arbuom!

Chappie posted 8/30/2017 08:34 AM

Download a divorce packet for your state and print it out.
If not available onliine you can pick one up at the county court house. Letting her see you mean business may shock her into reality. This is less expensive than filing with an attorney. That doesnt mean you don't need an attorney. You do. But my experience tells me she thinks she can continue to play you and she is going to freak when divorce is really staring her in the face.

twisted posted 8/30/2017 08:46 AM

I suspect that my only chance to get her there is by telling her it's over, but I ain't holding my breath.

Reality is telling you that exact thing. She may never come back, and her actions may prevent you from taking her back should she have a change of heart. As long as you are a backup plan for her, you will never get out of this whirlpool of hurt. As hard as it is, sometimes you just have to fold your hand, no matter how much you have invested, there's just no point in throwing good effort and intentions toward a situation that is lost.
There is no shame in realizing it isn't worth it. The shame is in continuing to follow a fools errand.
Often times, it is much harder to stay than to go, and being stubborn and dedicated can work against you. I can't help, but in this case, to advise you to get out, and get as quickly as you can.
If at some point she does have a change of that cold cruel heart, then it is YOUR option, (not hers) to decide if you even want to try again.
I'm afraid I would be more likely to give a complete stranger a shot instead of her again.
In the meantime, it's all about attitude, head high and look forward to the next big adventure. There are women out there that appreciate and respect a good man, and it's time you start thinking about them and forget about her.
I had a conversation with my son about in today's society there is not a "right of passage" for young men anymore, an initiation into manhood like there is in some cultures. For some it used to be service into the military, or an adventurous journey to show your mettle and gain self confidence.
This is an opportunity to show what you're made of. For you.
Don't underestimate yourself.

ďA bit of advice
Given to a young Native American
At the time of his initiation:
As you go the way of life,
You will see a great chasm. Jump.
It is not as wide as you think.Ē


― Joseph Campbell

xrnpc posted 8/30/2017 09:05 AM

WW is being extra nice to me for some reason, I think she's feeling guilty because she hurt my feelings when she told me she didn't love me.

I don't think it's guilt.She basically knows it's over, right?There's no reason for her to resent you for keeping her and the OM apart, anymore.She may already be back in contact with him.

Remember how happy and nice she behaved towards you, when you allowed her to keep contact with OM, before:


I couldnít believe her response, in an instant, she went from completely ghosting me for a week, to being loving, affectionate and sweet. WTF! But I was happy (or so I thought) to have her back.

[This message edited by xrnpc at 9:12 AM, August 30th (Wednesday)]

Limboaz posted 8/30/2017 10:04 AM

I think it is likely that xrnpc is right that she is like a petulant child that now thinks she is going to get what she wants, more time with loverboy, so she is acting all happy about it. However, you won't really know what she is thinking until you get some divorce papers into her hands. Her reaction will be more telling than anything else.

Bigger posted 8/30/2017 12:02 PM

Those two options (R and D) are simply paths that will get you out of infidelity. Fortunately, these paths share a long intimal stretch, and once they fork they run parallel to each other for some time.

Arbuom Ė I know this is contradictory but I donít place much value in words, but still think words are very important.

When your wife tells, you she doesnít love you and probably wonít ever love you I think you should take note of those words. But they are only wordsÖ Words without action are only wordsÖ BUT they can give us a clear indication of where she is headed. What can be done is force her to stand by her words. Itís like when a kid threatens to hold its breath if it must eat cauliflower. A parent might call the threat and the kid eventually must grab some new air.

Imagine you say out loud ďI have to lose weight. Iím going to start exercising and watch what I eatĒ. Those words are a direction, a goal. They tell me what you want. But if you then go grab a hamburger and the remote for the TVÖ Those actions tell me even louder than your words that there is little correlation between words and actions. Force the situation where her words have logical consequences and her actions show her intentions.

The below is how I suggest you create the situation where it becomes clear to you if your marriage has any chance. If you want out Ė then donít bother. If YOU are content with a divorce, then simply head for it. But donít dally. Be firm, fair but determined.


But your wife has said what she said. Her actions indicate sheís still in infidelity Ė whether itís active or inactive (seeing/contacting OM or not). Take her words at face-value and act accordingly. Even if she told you the affair is over (or the ďfriendshipĒ) then act accordingly until the actions support those words.

The good thing in your situation is that your initial steps out of infidelity would be the same per se irrespective of R or D. Go back to the little speech I gave you. Thatís your action-plan. You let her know you resolve her of any marital obligations and that you are moving out of infidelity. She doesnít have to love you, find love for you, try to love youÖ HeckÖ You two donít even have to like each other or agree on whatís for dinner. All you need is some form of cohabiting and co-parenting that will work for the now-temporary situation.

You make divorce real. It Ďs a process and it takes time, it wonít happen overnight. But it can be divided into emotional detachment, financial detachment and the logistics of joint commitments that canít be fully separated (like custody and the kids). You can start the emotional detachment. You can limit the financial attachment. You can start the logistical attachment regarding daily stuff like who prepares meals for whom, laundry and so on.

Since the destination is clear Ė out of infidelity Ė and since the path is clear Ė divorce because she wonít commit to the marriage and/or because divorce is what you want Ė then you can look at the present situation as a temporary thing. Something thatís surmountable because you KNOW it will change. With that you can be around her with relative ease. Itís sort-of like when you are waiting for a member of staff to finish their last shift before termination. There isnít any use in arguing over performance or quality of work or tomorrows schedule.

Once you start entering useless confrontations and arguments you stop feeding her justification for the affair. Stay out of them with a firm, fair and consistent reply and you both stop feeding her AND your pain:

You controlling? No, you arenít. You have told her sheís totally free to see OM. She can do whatever she wants Ė including deciding your marriage is crap, she canít love you and whatever.
You trying to swindle her in divorce? No, you arenít. You simply handed the matter over to an attorney that will ensure your rights in a fair divorce.
You want her auntís vase that she inherited? No, you donít. You only want the assets distributed in accordance with what your attorney says is fair and right.
You throwing her out? No, you arenít. Itís only normal that divorced couples arrange separate accommodations. That might mean selling the house, you buying her out, she buying you outÖ
You making her pay for her own gas? No, you arenít. She wanted out of the marriage and that includes a termination of marital finances. She pays her own personal expenses.

Then you make the affair reality. You donít hide it. You let every stakeholder in the marriage know that you donít like your wifeís boyfriend and that you hate sharing. Therefore, the marriage is heading to its demise. Call it an affair Ė she will argue and complain, but stick to that word. Affair. Stick to the truth and be factual: The reason you are divorcing is mainly that she decided to focus on OM and her relationship with him and that you canít accept that. The D is your choice because what she offered isnít acceptable. If asked about your blame for the situation then be honest: There are things in the marriage you could have done better and could maybe be worked on, but your wife insisting on having a boy-friend isnít surmountable.

Donít talk of a joint future. Donít talk about next Thanksgiving or next summerís vacation. Donít talk about renewing a car, your pension fund and where itís headed. Donít go to parties and dinners as a couple. Just move on through this temporary status as if itís an annoyance. You KNOW you are headed to a better place.

Ignore her actions. She dresses up and flaunts it in your face, then you take the kids out for pizza. She tells you how much fun she had yesterdays, you say ďgreatĒ and go wash the car. Detach and avoid unnecessary confrontation.

Then you make the marriage attractive. Best way to do that is also something that will be beneficial to you anyway. You take care of yourself.
Exercise, eat healthy, groom yourself, take pride in your appearance, be calm, determined, the best father ever, responsibleÖ You donít do anything of these things for her, you do it for YOU. Be content with your decision and your path.

I donít know if following the above will save your marriage. I donít even know if itís worth saving. What I do know is that to remain married both you and your wife need to want it. To divorce only one of you needs to want divorce.
What I do know is that irrespective of D or R I think the above advice will help you either way and it will force the issue, making it clear if D is inevitable (and therefore easier to accept) or if R is possible (and thereby on the right basis).

ISurvived7734 posted 8/30/2017 12:49 PM

You are on an emotional roller coaster and nothing is going to feel consistent right now. That's normal and we all know what it's like. Something that can help is to literally write down your key principles with regard to her affair and generally hurtful, disrespectful things she's said and done to you. Go back and read it a couple times a day in order to keep your mind from drifting to some fantasy place where you think "maybe all of this really isn't so bad" - which is an insidious from of denial. At best, her cheating & lying is a horrible blow to your marriage & relationship and reconciliation would be a long, painful process that might fail anyway.

With your recent posts I get the feeling that you are afraid to know whether it is was physical or not. Again, this could be another form of denial - your mind is protecting you from the immense blow that this knowledge would be. I know you have said it doesn't matter but you've also said some things that fly in the face of this. With regard to whether she fucked him or not, I have NEVER seen an EA that was not actually physical if the two cheaters where in physical proximity to each other. That is to say, unless they live thousands of miles apart it is a sure thing that it turned physical. You immediately might think that "but my case is different" but I can assure you that it's not. I'm talking 100% of the time over hundreds of cases just like yours. I think it is important that you understand exactly what you are dealing with as you consider divorce.

[This message edited by ISurvived7734 at 12:52 PM, August 30th (Wednesday)]

goalong posted 8/30/2017 17:28 PM

see what happens when there is even a glimpse of an ending to the marriage. May be she thought she overstepped and there is a risk that you will take action. Read Gw5263 thread. His WW also act nice whenever she see her cake eating is in danger

arbuom posted 8/30/2017 17:34 PM

nothisfriend, Chappie - Thank you for the support! Iím feeling strong today.

arbuom posted 8/30/2017 17:35 PM

twisted

As hard as it is, sometimes you just have to fold your hand, no matter how much you have invested, there's just no point in throwing good effort and intentions toward a situation that is lost.
There is no shame in realizing it isn't worth it. The shame is in continuing to follow a fools errand.

Amen brother. Iím throwing in the towel. I did nothing wrong. I definitely could have been a better husband, nobody is perfect. But I certainly didnít deserve what she dealt me, and our poor kids. They were never consulted on what they want their future to look like. DS1 will be devestated when he learns that Daddy wonít be around all the time. He had no choice in the matter.

Your words are much appreciated.

arbuom posted 8/30/2017 17:36 PM

xrnpc, Limboaz

I don't think it's guilt.She basically knows it's over, right?There's no reason for her to resent you for keeping her and the OM apart, anymore.She may already be back in contact with him.

Thanks for the insight! I actually didnít think of that.

Iíll use OBSís words, and say: ďHe can have her, that will be his greatest punishment!Ē

arbuom posted 8/30/2017 17:39 PM

Bigger

You have my utmost gratitude for taking the time to write such long and detailed replies, I want you to know that I appreciate it.

I apologize that my comprehension has been slow since becoming a BS, my brain gets overwhelmed very easily. But if I understand your proposal correctly, are you suggesting a form of the 180 and not telling WW that Iím divorcing? If thatís what you meant, then Iím not sure if I can pull that off.

I have a personality flaw where I tend see things as either black or white. I donít do well with grey. If I understand you correctly, and proceed with that proposal, I think Iíd still feel that I have some kind of attachment to WW still. And probably continuously wonder where this is going because itís not clear cut. I was actually thinking that I could accomplish what you are suggesting by telling her that we are done, and that I want us to reach an amicable resolution that is fair for all, and one that puts the kids first. Iím not planning on moving out. Iíll encourage her to get a lawyers opinion, and take some time to think, and then come back and sit down to see if we can come to a peaceful resolution. My best friend did something similar, and they basically went to a lawyer and told him what agreement theyíve reached and to draft the papers. Maybe Iím dreaming, but Iíd like to give that a shot. If WW comes back begging for another chance, weíll cross that bridge when we get there (although Iím pretty certain at this stage that Iíll never take her back), otherwise D proceeds and the sun will rise again.

Does this make any sense?

arbuom posted 8/30/2017 17:50 PM

ISurvived7734

With your recent posts I get the feeling that you are afraid to know whether it is was physical or not. Again, this could be another form of denial

This has come up so much that I feel that I need to address it. How can I convince everyone that Iím not afraid of finding out that is was a PA. Please believe me. I really donít give a shit. And like I said, finding out that this was a PA would have made this far easier for me (albeit greatly more devastating), and I would have moved on sooner and never looked back. But I have no way of finding out if this was a PA, and Iím not going to do anything illegal to find it. Sheís just not worth. It proves nothing to me if this was a PA, Iím already destroyed by what she did, and have already decided to move onÖ

arbuom posted 8/30/2017 17:57 PM

see what happens when there is even a glimpse of an ending to the marriage. May be she thought she overstepped and there is a risk that you will take action. Read Gw5263 thread. His WW also act nice whenever she see her cake eating is in danger

Something is going on, but I can't seem to put my finger on it. Whatever it is, my resolve is strong today.

I'm certain that I will have bad days, and I worry that they will weaken my resolve. But I need to stay strong and press forward. I won't survive an eternity of this hell, I need to keep my eyes on the brighter future ahead of me, even if it means I'll live a larger hell in the short term.

Keep the words of encourage coming, you guys are saving my life.

MidnightRun posted 8/30/2017 18:03 PM

You've come a long way in record time.

Not to equate, but little wonder you're profefessionally successful.

I salute you.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 7:13 PM, August 30th (Wednesday)]

RubixCubed posted 8/30/2017 18:15 PM

I don't think it's guilt.She basically knows it's over, right?There's no reason for her to resent you for keeping her and the OM apart, anymore.She may already be back in contact with him.

Thanks for the insight! I actually didnít think of that.

Iíll use OBSís words, and say: ďHe can have her, that will be his greatest punishment!Ē

You guys are giving her too much credit. It is not guilt,you're correct there,but she is realizing she has lost control and is hoovering arbuom to manipulate him into being controlled by her again. This seems to happen frequently once the 180 starts being used.
Stick to your guns and stay the course. You are handling this perfectly so far.

arbuom posted 8/30/2017 20:23 PM

goalong

see what happens when there is even a glimpse of an ending to the marriage. May be she thought she overstepped and there is a risk that you will take action. Read Gw5263 thread. His WW also act nice whenever she see her cake eating is in danger

I think it might be a little late. But I would find it quite surprising if WW turned around. She's so stubborn, and set in her ways that I can see her burn her marriage down before she'd ever admit to doing anything wrong.

Only time will tell!

TimelessLoss posted 8/30/2017 21:03 PM

She's so stubborn, and set in her ways that I can see her burn her marriage down before she'd ever admit to doing anything wrong.
This is Pineapple's W to a "T".

arbuom, I'll repeat here what I told Pineapple since both wives are freakin' clones. A lot is said here about looking for remorse. And not mistaking regret for remorse. Instead, I suggest that you look for humility on the part of your W. That is the first sign that a person blinded by pride is seeing something different inside themselves. "Niceness" from her is not humility.

You are doing great. That "black and white" thing you mentioned about yourself? It turned out to be a good thing because the change in you is like a light switch was toggled. You went from swirling out of control to being completely in control of your future. That's where your sense of "meh" comes from.

Stay the course. You are taking a stand that you will not share your W w/another man, that you will not have a third person in your marriage.

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