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I have a gut feeling.

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DeWittle posted 9/21/2017 09:52 AM

the other woman is definitely affair partner I saw with my own eyes.
So how do you know OM isn't with them? The third friend there has no problem with all this since a)she was sitting next to them in the hot tub and b)probably how your friend knows about the A.

Not to place blame but why would you ever be OK with the three of them, especially OW, going on this trip? I'd been jumping up and down, OH HELL NO!

sassylee posted 9/21/2017 10:01 AM

If UM locks his WW in a closet, he'll never get the proof he needs to make a decision. He's giving her the rope to hang herself.

Unsureman posted 9/21/2017 10:12 AM

Thank you to everyone that has contributed to this thread, I am reading every thing and it is giving me great clarity. I never stepped away to truly look at my marriage until now. One thing I will never do is be my WW jailer or warden , she has Free Will to choose the path she wants, as do I.
My gut tells me my WW had an affair with both of these swingers, but never quite broke it off. She pretends that it was a one time deal; however I have a sharp mind and I keep replaying everything and everything equals an affair. I could got into greater detail but I believe that what I put out is enough to tell the story.
I didn't post this in JFO because I knew five years ago, I just didn't let myself realize the true severity. The moderator has my permission to move this thread to JFO.

DeWittle posted 9/21/2017 10:45 AM

I agree, you cannot control your WW. But, my dollars would not have been used so my WW could spend a weekend with AP and if she did figure out the financing she'd have left knowing she'd be coming back to D papers.

I understand given her the rope and all but a trip with the AP is way beyond that.

Edited to add: actually, the trip with AP is ALL the proof you need. JMHO

[This message edited by DeWittle at 10:46 AM, September 21st (Thursday)]

LivingWithPain posted 9/21/2017 11:02 AM

Well she has left for her trip, PI is in place, but will only be at their hotel Friday and Saturday nights they are having dinner. Someone here said that she will turn into a good girl and that is exactly what is happening. She told me how much she loves me this morning before she left and was weirdly affectionate. Later at the airport she texted me again saying she loves and misses me.
I have been playing all of the mind movies in my head over the full length of our marriage and there are a lot of red flags. She has no boundaries and she never would have tolerated me doing what she did.
Someone asked why I let her hang out with these miscreants .
I don't we live in a small community and see each other all of the time. We have pulled away since the hot tub incident, but run into each other at functions. I have no doubt that there was an affair, I don't know if it is still ongoing. My WW will pay a hefty price for this betrayal.

Up to this point tour wife has been playing you like a fiddle. Don't feel bad, I allowed my wife to do the same. It took me actually catching her in the act to finally accept my wife is a cheating cheater. I hope this doesn't happen to you. I don't wish that pain on anyone.

I hope you find some peace in whatever choice you make.

Iwantmyglasses posted 9/21/2017 11:07 AM

You asked a few posts ago why she would do this? You are fit, attractive, a good provider.

One of the growing points to come out of this situation is realizing we project our own characteristics onto our spouses.

I thought so highly of my spouse. He was a man of his word, integrity, love of family, deep devotion to God.

When I sat back and truly thought about him. I compared reality (outside of the affair) with my perceived notion of him.

I always believed him to be a good person. A good father. I was lying to myself.

Sit back and compare your reality to your beliefs about your wife. My guess will be you decide you really have "fluffed" her up.

Michigan posted 9/21/2017 11:50 AM

BTW, you really don't need proof.

wa9872


This is true. You don’t need proof to divorce but it will be of great benefit when explaining your actions to friends and family. Proof of a PA is especially valuable when the marriage is outwardly great and children are involved.

She would never leave me or admit to infidelity, so unless I can prove more it is just he said she said.

Unsureman


Picture him claiming she had an affair and her swearing on a stack of bibles that it never happened. His wife will be so sorry for her small indiscretions. She will cry and beg on her knees to keep the family intact. He will be breaking up a happing family over nothing. He will be such a bad guy.

Proof of more serious indiscretions would be invaluable.

Unsureman posted 9/21/2017 12:09 PM

So how do you know OM isn't with them?

DeWittle good question he is supposed to be at my friends house on Saturday. All of the Husbands and children are going to a cookout. I just have to not drink and keep my temper under control. I feel as though I have been sleep walking through our marriage and just woke up.
Up to this point tour wife has been playing you like a fiddle. Don't feel bad, I allowed my wife to do the same. It took me actually catching her in the act to finally accept my wife is a cheating cheater. I hope this doesn't happen to you. I don't wish that pain on anyone.

LivingWithPain, she played me and I allowed it, I can say that I still love my wife and I will be devastated if and when I find additional evidence.

Unsureman posted 9/21/2017 12:09 PM

So how do you know OM isn't with them?

DeWittle good question he is supposed to be at my friends house on Saturday. All of the Husbands and children are going to a cookout. I just have to not drink and keep my temper under control. I feel as though I have been sleep walking through our marriage and just woke up.
Up to this point tour wife has been playing you like a fiddle. Don't feel bad, I allowed my wife to do the same. It took me actually catching her in the act to finally accept my wife is a cheating cheater. I hope this doesn't happen to you. I don't wish that pain on anyone.

LivingWithPain, she played me and I allowed it, I can say that I still love my wife and I will be devastated if and when I find additional evidence.

Jduff posted 9/21/2017 12:17 PM

Proof sometimes also helps to sway decisions in D regarding custody and asset division. If you file with infidelity as cause, you can name parties involved and after D is finalized it is public record. Your WW will have that reminder forever. My XW feared this as she is a public school teacher in a district that has VERY involved parents and PTA. Rumors spread parentbto parent faster than the internet.

Proof also cuts through all the trickle-truthing bullshit. Once you establish that your wayward spouse is a liar with hard evidence then the burden falls on the wayward to prove to you what is or isn't true from that moment forward. There's no more blind trust in the relatiinship.

Bigger posted 9/21/2017 12:59 PM

Userman

Unfortunately, I seriously doubt a PI will find anything concrete this weekend. Not unless OM happens to appear suddenly. Even then – unless the PI caught them in flagrante – then all the PI could tell you is that OM appeared where his wife and two other women were.

I doubt your wife and the OMW will make out in a restaurant. I doubt the pool-guard will need to pull them off each other. They won’t turn into LBGT poster-kids overnight. Women holding hands, women going in pairs to the bathroom, female friends going together into a hotel-room… none of this would support any infidelity-theory.

Heck… Even if your friend tells you of rumors then all that is hearsay. If he does start talking about that then go for the sources. Who saw them where and when? When did the story start? What is known? What is thought? How reliable is the source? How believable is the witness?
Even then take everything with a pinch of salt. MAYBE the origin of the rumors is that hot-tub party. MAYBE that’s all.

I’m going to suggest a couple of things:
Use the weekend WELL. Set up whatever you need to monitor her movements and whereabouts. This can range from tracking device in her car (an old mobile phone might do the trick), VAR’s in strategic places. Online accessible camera’s...
[Short story – YEARS ago, a friend of mine set up a webcam and an old laptop in his garage so it overlooked his driveway and front-door. Used Skype to have a video-conversation with himself (way before IP cameras) and could drive home and catch wife and her lover.]

Another option is this:
Use the weekend to research poly operators in your area. Find one that is reputable, one that mainly does work for corporations and the legal system.

When your wife comes home then sit her down.
Tell her your concerns. Tell her that the suspicion and the distrust is going to drive you crazy and wreck the marriage. Tell her that being told of an affair won’t necessarily wreck the marriage, but ongoing lies or your ongoing suspicion DEFINITELY will.

Tell her that unfortunately your trust in her is close to zero right now. It’s not what you want, but that incident in the tub has led to this and you don’t WANT to be there, but you are. Give her a grace-period. Tell her that she has 60 minutes to think this over but that she needs to tell you the truth before that time is over. Refusing to talk will be seen by you as admittance to infidelity.

Promise her that even if she confesses to having an affair you won’t file. You will give your marriage a 30-day period with no drastic decisions.

Then tell her that if she admits to an affair or if she denies an affair you have set up a meeting with a poly-examiner next Wednesday.
If she refuses to go you take it as an admittance of guilt. If she passes the poly and there was no infidelity you promise to work on your issues. But be VERY CLEAR (and be prepared to stand by it) that IF she claims there was no affair and if she fails… Its game over.

Jameson1977 posted 9/21/2017 13:00 PM

Hi Unsureman. Just caught up on your thread and just wanted to weigh in. Firstly, I'm so sorry you find yourself here, but I am glad you did. I've been here 2 years since my DDay and the advise, help and support from the members here is awesome.

Others can chime in, but I don't remember one post in 2 years where a BS has had suspicions and turn out to be nothing going on. Your WW seems to have issues with boundaries. My WW has always had boundary issues which always made me feel uncomfortable, but I never put my foot down. There were signs through our entire relationship (we were High School sweethearts, both our firsts and have been together 21 years [married for 13]). After Dday and a year of TT, I looked back and all the signs were there. I liken it to putting a frog in boiling water, it will immediately jump out, put it in cold water and turn the heat up, it will cook itself. That was me. I used to say my wife would never cheat on me, but the reality was she did before we were married, carried on a couple of EA's and another PA.

I made a lot of mistakes, but one thing I did right was trust my gut, monitor and gather evidence. Once I had proof, I confronted right away, but didn't reveal my sources. Even when she knew I knew about one of her A's, she denied it until I asked her if she wanted me to show her the evidence. She broke down immediately.

I agree with what others have said, your WW will likely be on high alert now and will be "good" until she feels it is "safe" to continue. I don't think I could pretend everything was fine while gathering evidence, I envy the folks that are able to do this, but I wear my emotions on my sleeve.

I think you are on the right path. Be very cautious of this friend that told you about your WW while intoxicated. I assume everything I say to my male friends goes back to their wives. I've been burned in business in the same manner so I have operated in a way that if I say anything, to make sure I wouldn't have any problems saying it in front of anyone.

Stay strong Unsureman, dealing with infidelity is easily the hardest thing I have ever dealt with.

harrybrown posted 9/21/2017 13:05 PM

I do hope you get answers soon.

If you do not get answers this will continue to bother you.

Will you have her take a polygraph if the PI does not find anything?

This is a horrible way to live.

Anyway you could move away, far away, with or without your wife?

HellFire posted 9/21/2017 13:08 PM

Ok. If you had caught her making out in the hot tub with a man, would you be ok with her going away to a hotel for the weekend with him?

Why are you ok with her going to a hotel with the OW?

I guess I'm just not getting it. Cheating is cheating. An AP is an AP. Same sex doesn't make a difference. She cheated on you with this woman. Why are you funding a trip away with her ow?

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:08 PM, September 21st (Thursday)]

twisted posted 9/21/2017 13:17 PM

Bigger has good advice, as usual.
Jameson:

I made a lot of mistakes, but one thing I did right was trust my gut, monitor and gather evidence. I don't remember one post in 2 years where a BS has had suspicions and turn out to be nothing going on.

There is one thing I've learned, and that is when someone has their radar go off, you need to listen. Many of us had warning signs that we dismissed, thinking, Nah, it couldn't be. Only to realize later we were idiots. Holding off an collecting evidence may seem like a waste of time to many, but in my case, having overwhelming evidence when you confront, almost eliminates her option of lying, excusing, or fabricating from the onset.
It forces them to come clean, or walk out the door. This will eventually make R much easier to attempt if you so choose.

Michigan posted 9/21/2017 13:24 PM

I don't think I could pretend everything was fine while gathering evidence, I envy the folks that are able to do this, but I wear my emotions on my sleeve.

Jameson1977


Your spouse knows you very well and will pick up that something’s off. If you’re going to try and act as if everything is normal then come up with a cover story. Trouble at work, etc. Use as much of the truth as you can, like a real problem at work. Just make it out to be bigger than it is.

[This message edited by Michigan at 1:55 PM, September 21st (Thursday)]

Jameson1977 posted 9/21/2017 13:35 PM

Just to follow up, my WW did love bomb me after I asked her if she had cheated on me. This was 2 years prior to Dday and about 2 months after she f'ed her 2nd AP. She knew i had suspissions and gave me the guilt trip of "how could I cheat on you, I don't have any free time?!?" What did I do? Felt guilty and tried to give her more free time. Stick to your plan and keep your cards close to your chest.

You almost need to have irifutable evidence, cheaters will lie, swear on their childrens lives to try to save their own ass.

[This message edited by Jameson1977 at 1:37 PM, September 21st (Thursday)]

MidnightRun posted 9/21/2017 13:50 PM

I can assure you that ow likely made a move on your wife during the 'trip'.

The sleaze ball did it under your nose, so what makes you think the ow wouldn't once out of sight?

There's a difference between being a jailor and a husband with boundaries.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 2:07 PM, September 21st (Thursday)]

Unsureman posted 9/21/2017 14:06 PM

Proof sometimes also helps to sway decisions in D regarding custody and asset division. If you file with infidelity as cause, you can name parties involved and after D is finalized it is public record.
.

JDuff I want the proff for myself and my children. A divorce would seriously effect them. I never want to be seen as the bad guy or crazy.

Unfortunately, I seriously doubt a PI will find anything concrete this weekend. Not unless OM happens to appear suddenly. Even then – unless the PI caught them in flagrante – then all the PI could tell you is that OM appeared where his wife and two other women were.
.
Bigger, I agree the PI will be at the bar after their dinner on Friday and Saturday WW is definitely sensing danger. She texted me how much she loves me as I started typing this.

MidnightRun posted 9/21/2017 14:10 PM

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

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