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Why the reluctance to blame WS?

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Ghofsip posted 10/30/2017 10:03 AM

I know of many, many professionals/counselors/therapists/shrinks/etc. that also place no blame on anything or anyone else that the WS. No matter what else is happening, the WS's make the choice to cheat. They always have the power to make other choices, no matter what the background circumstances are.

It's up to each individual to figure out their own values and boundaries. So what if others say/write or otherwise don't hold to your values? Their your values, sticking to them in the face of opposition to them is what boundaries are for. Hold your boundaries, live your values, and don't worry about when others disagree.

If you don't accept the point of view WS's aren't responsible for their choice to cheat, then don't accept it. Don't argue with others about it, either. You don't need to convince them, in fact you shouldn't try. Accepting that others have different values doesn't mean you also have to agree and approve.

Live your life and keep your values. It's that simple.

allusions posted 10/30/2017 10:28 AM

I think our society always wants to find a 'reason' why someone breaks the rules. The idea that someone chose to do something ranges from unsettling to terrifying. A few weeks ago there was the horrible shooting in Las Vegas. No explanation or motive so far. I read the other day that they are sending his brain to Stanford for microscopic analysis to see if they can find something that could explain why he plotted to commit the crime. It's because the 'why' has not been found. If the 'why' can be found then there is a 'reason', and if there is a reason then perhaps it can be prevented.

We also do a lot of victim-blaming too. It's tragic that a betrayed spouse gets so much dumped on them. It's 'their fault' the affair happened, and no matter what the Betrayed Spouse chooses to do, it's wrong in someone's eyes. "How can you stay with him/her after what they did to you?" or "How can you leave him/her? Can't you see how sorry they are? Everyone makes mistakes, why can't you forgive them? You must be some kind of cold-hearted bitch/bastard if you won't take them back!"

You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.

Cheatee posted 10/30/2017 10:29 AM

My personal experience suggests there are shockingly few MCs, much less ICs with training in infidelity.

One of the first we tried, went straight into what was wrong with the marriage as soon as it was revealed there was infidelity. Of course, there were issues with the marriage (it was between two humans), but to go there when I was still reeling from the revelations was so hopelessly counter-productive. That felt a little like victim-blaming.

gonnabegr8 posted 10/30/2017 10:44 AM


I have to say (write?!?) to me as a wayward --- you posters are all off!!

OMG - I never hear it's the betrayed and it's always the wayward.

So I'm concluding that we probably all hear both ways a lot and from all sides, and probably just "remember" what rubs us the wrong way.

However, it also seems "society" is getting numb to adultery - like these terrible sad shootings happening everywhere. It's on tv, in movies, every knows it from work, social settings, etc. - it's just everywhere so what might have shocked people years ago, and garnered a reaction, it's become very commonplace so people are becoming "meh......"

I never hear reluctance to blame the wayward.

[This message edited by gonnabegr8 at 10:44 AM, October 30th (Monday)]

Dorothy123 posted 10/30/2017 10:45 AM

Someone here just blamed the cheater!

I can't believe it !

CookieMom posted 10/30/2017 10:47 AM

Both my WH and McWhore bear 100% responsibility for their own part in the A. McWhore didn't accidentally fall on his dick and WH didn't coincidentally fall on her scabby vag. They were two broken, selfish and disgusting people who were too lazy to work through their issues in any other way. They both knew that WH was married. They both could have said no. I hate them both.


Frankiesbeads posted 10/30/2017 10:50 AM

We as humans project the values we have onto the people we keep in our circle. So I projected my loyalty onto my WH, assuming that's he's like me in that regard. Because he also told he was that way.

So when I discovered he's a cheater, there's a mirror effect: on hat must be I'm a cheater too?

But I'm not...and the inner struggle begins.

So to defeat this inner battle, we have to forgive the object/ mirror of betrayal quicker than the AP. it's for iur own sanity and survival. Because I know I'm not disloyal and my mirror IS...the little brain has to make corrections.

selfimproved posted 10/30/2017 11:05 AM

1) The BS
2) Job related stress
3) Social related stress
4) Family of origin issues
5) Childhood related stress
6) Unmet needs as an adult
7) ETC to infinity

I don't see any of these as reasons to release the WS (or CS) from the blame or responsibility of their actions. When I think about the reasons people cheat, I'm more or less thinking about patterns of behavior that a WS doesn't have the mental or emotional tools to recognize and change these patterns (patterns being a series of choices) in themselves.

I read it earlier today, and I completely agree, cheating is, at its core, the result of selfishness and the refusal to resist temptation. Where all that other stuff comes in, IMO, is an attempt to help a WS (or CS) see where they started down the wrong path in the hopes they recognize the temptations earlier, when they are easier to refuse. To me, "why" and "reason" are more about the WS (or CS) cleaning up their act and prevention more than letting anyone off the hook.

DevastatedDee posted 10/30/2017 11:23 AM

I think we need for them to have gone insane in some way because trying to really face that your #1 safe person could hurt you like that is a tremendous blow to your world-view and mental stability.

If the man or woman you married was actually the kind of person who could do you like that without some magical reason that makes it understandable, you lose faith in your judgment. You lose faith in your self-worth. You lose faith in humanity.

You understand that you never have truly been safe from anyone and that you really are all alone in the world looking out for yourself.

So yeah, we all want there to be some reason that we can look out for, some sign, some behavior that we can control on our parts to keep it from happening to us. The truth is, we're always rolling the dice in our relationships with people. The only one we can truly rely on is ourselves, so that's the one we need to focus on fixing.

tiredofcrying59 posted 10/30/2017 11:26 AM

I have no problem placing blame where it belongs. I also don't fault anyone for immediately divorcing a cheater. I'm a year in as of today. We've been trying to work it out. But I don't know if I want to live like this forever, waiting for the other shoe to drop. I don't know if I can get past what he was willing to do to me and our family just to screw someone else. I don't know. Today's not a good day, obviously.

But IF this doesn't work, and we D, I'll happily paint my new place and move forward guilt free. Because he cheated and made this fucking mess, and I didn't.

TrustGone posted 10/30/2017 12:29 PM

I have found this to often be true. Especially for those that know the WS. Just look at how many BS's blame themselves when they first learn of the A. I know I did because WS said I wasn't giving him enough sex or doing things around the house as well as he liked. So out popped June Cleaver/Porn star. Guess what??? He continued to cheat. Read in JFO and see how many BS's question themselves. So someone who doesn't live with them will take what the WS says as gospel and run with it because no one wants to believe it could happen to them.

In the long run, it really doesn't matter. Those that blame the BS are ignorant to the whole shit sandwich the BS was feed. I have learned that those that blame me are not worth my time and I distance myself from them because I can only control how I feel. Their opinion of me doesn't matter.

Dorothy123 posted 10/30/2017 17:07 PM

Yeah, it couldn't POSSIBLY be that they cheated because they simply couldn't resist temptation, or because they wanted to, or because they wanted sex with someone different, or simply because it was available and they COULD

Non BS's who are reading this be like....

Dorothy123 posted 10/31/2017 08:27 AM

It seems that non BS'S have no problem blaming the BS and blaming EVERY PROBLEM THE WS HAS EVER HAD IN THE WS'S LIFE

But oh no, don't blame the WS themselves! Don't you Dare!

Please excuse me as I enter into a "this is some crazy sh!t" laugh!

[This message edited by Dorothy123 at 5:32 PM, October 31st (Tuesday)]

CWBS83 posted 10/31/2017 08:37 AM

The CS's inability to have good coping mechanisms is for sure an FOO problem. The CS choosing cheating to cope is 100% CS's fault. I don't care how many naked people parade themselves in front of you, there is always a choice. The CS did not have a gun pointed to their head. They made the conscious decision to cheat. They had every opportunity to say no, but they didn't. CS's fault 100%

Dorothy123 posted 10/31/2017 09:57 AM

I see many of you are quite fond of the "blame the BS weaknesses because people whom don't have those weaknesses have nothing to fear" theory.

Unfortunately that only works for 1/3 of the three major theories why WS cheat and why the WS shouldn't get the blame.

The theory only explain why the BS gets the blame and not the cheater.

The theory does not explain why non BS's seem to want to give cheaters the "get out jail free" every which way the non BS can .

Here are the three major theories that tends to exonerate all the cheater's guilt and absolve all personal WS responsibility.

1) The cheating gene

2) All recent issues in the cheater's life with heavy emphasis on the BS's "faults".

3) All past childhood issues, traumas or problems the WS has ever had growing up.

*Dorothy takes careful aim at one of the most cherished of theories*

[This message edited by Dorothy123 at 12:46 PM, November 1st (Wednesday)]

stayedforthekids posted 10/31/2017 10:32 AM

I believe the most common reason folks don't blame the WS is out of fear and control. Married couples around me weren't able to figure out how or why my ex had an affair. They never seen it coming, nor did I. That's a terrifying thought. That someone you trust more than any other could one day just have an affair.

I longed for control over my life. That I had the power to make it stable and predictable, especially my marriage. Part of that control was that if I did certain things a certain way, my then wife wouldn't cheat. There's great comfort in that thought. It takes away the anxiety. But is it true? In my experience it isn't. Because my then wife is a human being, completely capable of making her own choices and she did.

For others around my ex and I, what happened is a sobering realization. That we aren't in control of our lives. That the person we trust most is capable of truly horrible things. It becomes easier to blame the BS, because by looking at my actions, they can try to learn and grow from "mistakes" I may have made in my marriage and avoid infidelity. It gives them that control back. They don't want to admit that it could happen to them. I can't say I blame them. By blaming me, they are blaming themselves, and "assuring" stability in their relationship.

Loukas is spot on here. I would add a lot of BSes shoulder the blame for the same reasons other's blame them. They need some sense of control over the situation. Most A related books even push the "own your part of the A" to the BS. IME, most MCs do too.

Dorothy, I think there are far more reasons than the 3 you listed. Narcissism, BPD, bipolar, depression, or plain old immaturity can play a huge factor in the choice to cheat. Entitlement and being egocentric (or ego driven) can too.

Dorothy123 posted 10/31/2017 11:45 AM

I would like to point two very sad observations that I gleaned from this thread.

1) It seems that non BS's are very reluctant to blame the WS.

2) It seems that non BS's , from all levels of society, have a great need to exonerate the WS from all guilt and absolve the WS from all personal responsibility .

[This message edited by Dorothy123 at 5:34 PM, October 31st (Tuesday)]

Notthevictem posted 10/31/2017 11:47 AM

I learned something on the thread too.

Seems like you wanna put blame in Child Support pretty badly. Those kids need that money Dorothy....

Notthevictem posted 10/31/2017 11:49 AM

Little Timmy neeeeeeds new shoes, Dorothy!!!! Why cant timmy have shoes?!?!?!?

Dorothy123 posted 10/31/2017 12:06 PM

*Dorothy clears her throat and breaks out into a song by milli vanilli for NTV*

Gotta blame it on something
Gotta blame it on something
Blame it on the rain (rain)
Blame it on the stars (stars)
Whatever you do don't put the blame on you
Blame it on the rain yeah yeah

[This message edited by Dorothy123 at 12:30 PM, October 31st (Tuesday)]

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