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wife enforcing boundary w coworker but i have concerns

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harrybrown posted 11/13/2017 14:17 PM

so when is she getting a new job or a D?

tiredofcrying59 posted 11/13/2017 14:35 PM

I agree somewhat with WWTL. She's a 48 year old woman who has had plenty of hookups. I'm sure she knows how to give the signal that she's open to whatever. (I'm trying to say this nicely here) I'm sure she knows how a horny 20 year old is going to take a comment like, "I have a checkered past". She's trying to keep that "friendship" or whatever open, while seeming to try shutting that talk down.

And she knows this. That's why she got defensive about it.

If she were less "experienced", I'd say it was a poor choice of words on her part, and maybe she just didn't realize this was like dangling a carrot in front of the kid. But IMO, anyone with her actual past knows exactly what she's doing. 8 men didn't just jump her with no prompting from her. Maybe she's getting it, but she's getting it slowly, I'd say.

Edited to add- I've always worked with men. When I was younger, I didn't have great boundaries. But as I got older and got into management, no one messed with me, and I mean no one. I can shut that shit down in seconds. I wanted to stay married, so I learned how to put those walls up. And then my husband cheated on ME.

[This message edited by tiredofcrying59 at 2:43 PM, November 13th (Monday)]

thatbpguy posted 11/13/2017 14:45 PM

She made a mistake by not telling the brat kid right away she didn't want to hear his stories. And then held to it.

While I agree with you that it was a mistake (on many levels) telling him about her 'checkered past', I'd be inclined not to lean too heavy on it.

My last thought is if brat boy doesn't stop with the stories, perhaps you would like to shove his stakeboard in his mouth sideways.

PeaceLily210 posted 11/14/2017 10:47 AM

She's a 48 year old woman who has had plenty of hookups. I'm sure she knows how to give the signal that she's open to whatever. (I'm trying to say this nicely here) I'm sure she knows how a horny 20 year old is going to take a comment like, "I have a checkered past". She's trying to keep that "friendship" or whatever open, while seeming to try shutting that talk down.
And she knows this. That's why she got defensive about it.

I agree with this completely. I have worked in restaurant kitchens and the conversations can get really bad. It's a sub-culture all it's own. Anthony Bourdain talks about it in one of his books "Kitchen Confidential". That being said, as a woman in that situation, and also as a former bartender, I learned early on how to shut that sh*t down when I wanted to. As a young woman I thought I was "cool" to be included in all the gory "guy talk". But later in life, when I found myself in a relationship that mattered to me, I started setting boundaries quickly. I had other bartenders telling me that I was going to lose tips if I wasn't friendlier to the men who flirted with me. I found it was exactly the opposite. I got a LOT of tips being friendly but professional. I showed respect for my then Fiance (now my WH) and people respected that in return.

but her choice of words "I have a checkered past" in this context, is worrisome, as is her defensiveness when I point this out to her.

OK, here you have zeroed in on the real problem.

My WH did the same thing trying to set boundaries with a woman in his workplace that he had previously had a lot of inappropriate conversation with. He told her that because of his cheating on me, I was uncomfortable with his relationship with her. And then when I called him on his shitty handling of the situation (telling her about his past AND throwing ME under the bus) He got super defensive and started throwing the "I can't do anything right in your eyes" at me. That happened about 1.5 years out from Dday and we addressed it in MC. Our MC was able to point out to him that a better response would have been something like "I'm working on having healthier boundaries in the workplace and I feel these conversations to be inappropriate." WH agreed at that time and soon after implemented stronger boundaries at work.

Unfortunately we are now well over 2.5 years out from Dday and we are still dealing with the defensiveness when I call him on something. He's still in IC and says he's "trying". I recently attempted to point out to him how his wording of something mattered to me, and how it affected me. He got super angry and defensive. Instead of coming home and talking to me about it, he stayed out drinking, then came home drunk and defensive, which led to a blow out. While I am willing to take responsibility for my part in the blowout, (I NEVER should have responded via text, knowing how easy it is to not get real meaning, and how he was likely to respond to it) I still can't get past the fact that he's still responding in a defensive manner to anything he feels is criticism.

I don't want to live in a relationship where I wind up "walking on eggshells" trying to determine how to frame something so that he will really HEAR me and take my feelings into consideration BEFORE he thinks of himself and starts the defensiveness.

It seems to me that empathy is really the core issue that our WS's are still lacking. Instead of stopping for even a moment and considering how they have caused all of this mistrust and damage, they are still thinking of themselves first.

I'm sorry GIT. I don't have any answers. I just wanted to chime in with some support and to say
You are not alone. You are NOT being too sensitive. You are not just a d*ck. The problem IS real.

allusions posted 11/14/2017 11:26 AM

Wow, what happened to sexual harassment in the workplace? Go to the boss or HR and make some complaints. I would have shot down that kid mid-sentence.

gettingintune posted 11/15/2017 10:26 AM

I scheduled a one-one session with the therapist we used for MC yesterday and talked about my concerns about my wife's wording, and her approach to boundary enforcement.

the therapist actually cringed when I told her "and then she said I have a checkered past"

the therapist agreed that it is a valid concern on my part, but also said that she feels that wording indicates some issues that my wife still has yet to work thru, possibly related to self esteem, self respect, shame and guilt. she agrees that my wife was truly trying , but didn't quite knock the ball out of the park on this one.

talked to my wife last evening about the session, but my wife still doesn't believe anything she did or said was a problem.

devastated43 posted 11/15/2017 12:53 PM

She is setting him up for the next question: "What checkered past?" "This...." "Oh, you like that kind'a thing ha?" ... and the wheel goes round and round.

I'm sorry man. I wish none of us were here. I wish none of us had reasons to be here. I wish we all had spouses with stronger willpower to stand their ground and resist temptation. Spouses that were less selfish about their feel good moment. All people fantasize, but most know their boundaries.

harrybrown posted 11/16/2017 15:16 PM

She has had too many OMs.

she needs to have much better boundaries.

Has she stopped working with her new OM?

how would she feel is you had this many affairs?

gettingintune posted 11/16/2017 15:24 PM

she needs to have much better boundaries.

Has she stopped working with her new OM?

yes, she does need to have much better boundaries.

now, the last bit you wrote...honestly, my first reaction to that was "WTF are you talking about...the skate kid is not another OM"

but then I was thinking of the conversation my wife and I had last night, and how I was bringing up the skate kid story again, yet she absolutely does not believe she handled the situation inappropriately, she told me that he is a co-worker and she values the companionship and work friendship, so she felt that alluding to her "transgressions" was being honest.

now.... today...im thinking "FFS...maybe she needs go and re-read Not Just Friends again

but she truly doesn't think the skate kid would read anything into her comment

and she truly thinks she handled it very well because of the value of a work-coworker frienship.

geez

tiredofcrying59 posted 11/16/2017 15:50 PM

She's 48 and he's what? 20? And she just started working with him? She doesn't owe him any kind of "honesty about her transgressions". Pure bullshit, I'm sorry. It's a breach of boundaries just to discuss that part of your past with a member of the opposite sex, IMO. It's just another way to say DTF.


It's like walking into a room full of drunks and say, "hey guys, partying? I can't drink though, I have a real problem with it!" First drink offered in 3,2,1...

She is not stupid.

gettingintune posted 11/16/2017 15:55 PM

DTF?

I think he is 24.

her last AP was 29

[This message edited by gettingintune at 3:56 PM, November 16th (Thursday)]

Crazymixedupkid posted 11/16/2017 16:01 PM

Getting in tune
First I have the checkered past
Second I have worked in a commercial kitchen, as a chef and an expediter. The conversation is crude to say the least, usually it is jabs at one another, usually making fun of someone's sexual orientation. To my knowledge we did not discuss one another's exploits. (Check out Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential). Yes kitchens are crude and rude, but this kind of talk was never present in the two kitchens I worked (went back to management consulting and accounting). Given what the two of you have been through, I would conveniently arrange a kitchen accident for our little 20 something. (One of my line cooks was harassing a sous. The sous was young enough to be my daughter, so I was completely unimpressed. I told her that when he comes by, take whatever is in the oven at the time and brush his arm. That should be enough that I can send him home. Once he is home, I will make sure he does not return. I had a new line guy in a half hour, she gave him a second degree on the arm as he was telling her he was going to expose himself. That was the best impetus to let him go. I wish he had exposed himself, he would have been dipped in my fryer.

HellFire posted 11/16/2017 16:05 PM

A kid that age,who thinks it's ok to speak to her about such things,does so because she gives him the impression it's ok.

And,that's not a boundary. It's a challenge. And an invitation.

And she knows it. She can pretend it's not, she can tell you she sees nothing wrong with it. That doesn't mean she's being truthful with you.

tiredofcrying59 posted 11/16/2017 22:15 PM

DTF=down to fuck


Crude, sorry. That's what it means.

rambler posted 11/16/2017 22:30 PM

This is not just boundaries, it is changing behavior. She still thinks like a wayward. She may not even know she is doing it because it is habit.

As she said she values her friendship with him. Given her past she should be revolted by him.

She has not changed

rambler posted 11/16/2017 22:30 PM

This is not just boundaries, it is changing behavior. She still thinks like a wayward. She may not even know she is doing it because it is habit.

As she said she values her friendship with him. Given her past she should be revolted by him.

She has not changed

gettingintune posted 11/17/2017 05:56 AM

This is not just boundaries, it is changing behavior. She still thinks like a wayward. She may not even know she is doing it because it is habit.

she really believes that she did not do anything inappropriate in this instance. she believes that there was no chance of an INVITE ...because they are coworkers friends ..etc...

she really doesnt see this as any issue indicating that she still has work to do

i dont get it...

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