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When you finally figure out the truth...

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DazedConfused20 posted 11/14/2017 19:03 PM

After a little over 9 months of searching, I finally figured out the truth today about why it happened, why my wife did what she did, but, I had been looking in all the wrong places...let me explain.

The blameshift was always there, first it was my fault, then hers, then me again. I’d put so much time and energy into trying to find the truth, and sadly, it was in plain sight all along...the truth, it was me, it’s always been me.

I’ve been married to my wife for just shy of 10 years, but, this wasn’t my first time going thru this, not my second either, it was actually my 3rd time. I was engaged to the prior 2 when the affairs happened as well. Each time it was something different. Knowing my wife had been thru something similar before I honestly never thought I would see this a 3rd time, but I did. The only blessing was this one was strictly electronic in nature where the first 2 were PA.

After searching and searching, it hit me today. What was the one common denominator in each of the 3?...it was me. It was always me, I was the truth I’d been searching for all along. I’m what you can describe as the “nice guy”...I was raised that way. Manners, being a gentleman, doing things with truth and honesty. Sadly though there is a quote that finally sunk in for me today...”nice guys always finish last”. I guess it was true after all. Having it happen once, sure, it could happen to any of us, right? Having it happen a second time though, you begin to question things even more. Having to go thru it a 3rd time, well folks, doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that you have a pattern at that point. I guess I never really thought about stepping back and looking at things from this angle before, but now it all makes sense.

“The truth will set you free”...well, today it did, no more searching, no more worrying, I can finally rest because I’ve finally realized that I was the problem all along. It feels like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders finally.

Rideitout posted 11/14/2017 19:37 PM

There's a huge gulf between what most women say they want and what they actually do want. I don't want to raise a ton of hackles here, but, what you're saying isn't entirely off base. I've been both, the nice guy and the jerk, the jerk, as much as women say they "hate men like that", does, in fact, wind up in bed with more women and does, in fact, wind up with women "stalking" them and doing crazy things to win their attention. It's a sad realization, one I came to many years ago, I had to decide, did I want to have a lot of sex, or did I want to be nice to women. I chose the former for most of my life, transition to the latter, got married, and was cheated on.

I know where your coming from and I hear your pain, it's a hard thing to understand and even harder to accept as the truth. I guess the only comparison that I can make, most men love sexually free (slutty is the common term, but honestly, it's just sexually free) women for girlfriends and affairs, but, typically won't marry them. I think it's similar to women with "jerks", they enjoy their company, but don't expect to get married (although, I think in a lot of cases, they want to).

Also, just so you know, I'm pretty sure the stats on cheating in marriage are totally off base. I don't know of a single marriage (where I have that kind of relationship with the man) where someone hasn't stepped out. Actually, I do suspect one hasn't had any A's, at least from the man, but that's one out of a whole lot. I honestly think, and this is very jaded, it's not if, just a matter of who (you or the W) and when.

DazedConfused20 posted 11/14/2017 20:20 PM

See, I was blessed with a sort of gift. It wasn’t until my late teens when it showed its face. I was able to look at relationships from that 3rd person point of view and offer sound advice. I guess as I got older it turned from offering advice to actually showing it myself. It just took me until now to realize it all. Each of the 3 were, well, I guess you could say “damaged” by previous men. Again, didn’t connect those dots until today, apparently I was drawn to them for that very reason. Once I was able to help them and make them believe again, well, that seems to be when it would happen. Granted you can’t call the first 2 affairs since we were only engaged, but in the end it was all the same. I opened them back up and when they realized this they spread their wings again and flew off. With my wife, she wasn’t just damaged, she struggled with self image and self esteem since she was barely a teen, so it took a lot longer. She finally broke thru in January, and again, I was back at square one.

I know this entire post may seem completely silly, but when you truly wake up, see it all for what it is, and connect the dots, it all makes sense, even if it’s in a completely twisted sense.

5454real posted 11/14/2017 22:01 PM

***As a member***

Why absolve them of the responsibility of their choices? I assume you are talking about women who are adults. Regardless of their past, it was their choice. Always.

Look around this site. Do you know how many of the BW's here have backgrounds as bad or worse than the one you describe? Yet, somehow, they remained loyal. Do they have supernatural abilities?

Ok. I'll give you the fact that you have a KISA complex. You find women who need someone to *fix* them. What will happen if you stop trying to *fix* your WW? What happens if you focus on you and hold her accountable for her actions.

I suggest finding and reading "No More Mr Nice Guy" and "Co-dependent No More". I truly suspect you might benefit from them.

Can you guess what my screen name means? I absolutely have been where you are.

Strength

RocketRaccoon posted 11/14/2017 22:33 PM

You are right in identifying your trait of being a KISA, but there is nothing wrong with being a KISA to someone who appreciates it.

People are not projects that you can 'fix'. If you want to fix anything, try an inanimate object, or if you are stubborn and think that inanimate objects are not enough of a challenge, then maybe get a dog with issues. Start small.....

BTW, being 'nice' does not mean being weak. The world needs more nice. You can still be nice, but firm, like how some law enforcement are like. They are polite, but firm.

Your partners abused your nice-ness, and they should be ashamed of themselves. You did right by helping, and did not deserve the cheating. That is on their screwed up personalities.

Notthevictem posted 11/14/2017 22:52 PM

So man, I gotta ask....

What the fuck???

If you're willing to claim responsibility for shit other people do, can I forward you some bills?

Do you mind if I got steal some dude's car , and drop it off at your house? Would you watch it for me? Just for a day or two?

Sorry bro, you might have a broken woman finding device, or the crazy ones might deliberately seek you out because you are stable and dependable BUT you can't control someone else. mind-control powers are too expensive for us normal dudes to buy. Plus the surgery requires the souls of like eight baby dolphins, and where the hell do you get those? I mean, even amazon doesn't carry that. Ebay?

Yeah bro, put the blame on the source. It doesn't matter who or what she blames. She's a fucking adult. She drives over a little kid, she can't say you made her. And last I heard, the detection devices for cheaters don't work or none of us would be here right now.

william posted 11/14/2017 23:04 PM

Another common denominator is all 3 were "damaged"

SuckaNoMore posted 11/15/2017 00:39 AM

Check out the Facebook group Man Up!

There are a lot of resources for KISA recovery and healing there.

SBCA posted 11/15/2017 00:57 AM

1,2 then 3. Yea there is definitely a behavioral pattern. I've got a 2x'er, my epiphany was owning the responsibility of not garnering the proper respect a woman must give her man.
I did not own that. She did not give that.


No, you can't always get what you want
you can't always get what you want
you can't always get what you want
but if you try sometimes you just might find
you get what you need,

1969 The Rolling Stones

[This message edited by SBCA at 1:01 AM, November 15th (Wednesday)]

SBCA posted 11/15/2017 00:58 AM

1,2 then 3. Yea there is definitely a behavioral pattern. I've got a 2x'er, my epiphany was owning the responsibility of not garnering the proper respect a woman must give her man.
I did not own that. She did not give that.


No, you can't always get what you want
you can't always get what you want
you can't always get what you want
but if you try sometimes you just might find
you get what you need,

1969 The Rolling Stones

[This message edited by SBCA at 12:58 AM, November 15th (Wednesday)]

madhattermarilyn posted 11/15/2017 01:25 AM

I think you're being harsh on yourself to blame yourself. But in a way I can relate. I feel that the reason I've been walked all over, including being cheated on, was because of me being seen as too nice...and I'm a girl! It works that way for both genders, unfortunately. But that should be no excuse for her lousy actions. See, this whole "you're too nice, you're a doormat" is why I felt so compelled to revenge cheat, esp when I knew I couldn't afford a divorce (I would have literally ended up homeless and by extension losing my kids, with all the stiff payouts I would have had in a no-fault divorce, and my husband knows this). Sometimes the nice person snaps.

madhattermarilyn posted 11/15/2017 01:32 AM

Also, just so you know, I'm pretty sure the stats on cheating in marriage are totally off base. I don't know of a single marriage (where I have that kind of relationship with the man) where someone hasn't stepped out. Actually, I do suspect one hasn't had any A's, at least from the man, but that's one out of a whole lot. I honestly think, and this is very jaded, it's not if, just a matter of who (you or the W) and when.


I respectfully disagree. I think it's easy for WSs and BSs to think this way. It's kind of a Baader-Meinhof phenomenon, or frequency illusion, in a way. I think it's also comforting to BSs and WSs to feel that they're far from alone in their plight, that they're not deviant from what's "normal". But I do believe that overall most marriages these days are devoid of cheating, especially now that divorce and cohabiting outside marriage are way more popular these days.

Rideitout posted 11/15/2017 04:47 AM

I respectfully disagree. I think it's easy for WSs and BSs to think this way. It's kind of a Baader-Meinhof phenomenon, or frequency illusion, in a way. I think it's also comforting to BSs and WSs to feel that they're far from alone in their plight, that they're not deviant from what's "normal". But I do believe that overall most marriages these days are devoid of cheating, especially now that divorce and cohabiting outside marriage are way more popular these days.

We'll agree to disagree, but, I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle. I know of only 1-2 M's in my close circle where someone hasn't stepped out. And of the 2 that come to mind, I suspect 1 has, I just don't know about it. The admitted stats are close to 50% of M's, and, of course, that's understated because people have every reason in the world to lie.

If you go into M today not expected to cheat or be cheated on, IMHO, you're at best, flipping a coin (50/50). At worst, I'd say the odds are very significantly stacked against you. My W and I are the last people you'd expect to have an A in our marriage, we're literally best friends, people in our social circle often comment "I wish I had what you guys do". And yet, here we are, another "uncounted" statistic (because none of our friends know).

DazedConfused20 posted 11/15/2017 05:33 AM

Forgive me, I didn’t mean for it to come across like I was ok with what happened. Cheating is cheating. I’m merely stating that in all 3 instances I unknowingly led the horse to water, put the ball on the tee, however you want to look at it. It was their own decision to do what they did. I’m not saying cheating is ok by any means.

Chrysalis123 posted 11/15/2017 05:48 AM

I think your picker is broken, and that is something you could work on, and in fact just did by your realization.

madhattermarilyn posted 11/15/2017 06:11 AM

Rideitout, is it possible that your friendship circle has more AS because you guys have other traits in common that cause you guys to gravitate towards each other? Just an idea. For example, I've heard that children of adulterous parents are more likely to end up cheating or getting cheated on in their own marriages someday. I've also seen/heard the possibility that SA runs in families, as does other psychological pathologies such as alcoholism or bipolar disorder. It's also possible for friends to kinda unconsciously seek each other out or become drawn to each other for uncommon traits that they all have in common too. For example, a while ago my chief friendship circle consisted of a good share of us having a deceased parent who died young from untimely causes (suicide, cancer, heart attack, accident, substance abuse, etc). Does that mean that it's "the norm" for 50℅ of parents to die untimely before age 55? NO. That contradicts the life expectancy stats. Same thing here. I've definitely heard that guys who cheat definitely seem to be more likely to have friends who also cheat or have cheated before. Sometimes buddies like these can even indirectly, unintentionally influence their friends to think it's not so bad to "step out" here and there, particularly in situations such as going to bachelor parties together where the girls there don't act professional.

Just wondering, are you a WS or BS? which gender in your group tends to cheat more, the men or women? Or are there a lot of MHs in your group? In your marriage, did cheating occur before or after you befriended these people?

Rideitout posted 11/15/2017 06:22 AM

Try not to totally TJ this. But, to your questions:

BH, I don't have any women in my group of friends, only men, yes, one or two MHs, but I suspect more just don't know it for a fact (that their wives cheat on them too), and cheating occurred after I was friends with these people, but IMHO, not at all influenced, my friends don't know/speak to my W (work friends mostly).

My "buddies" would absolutely co-sign an A for me. I don't think "encourage" is the right word, but, if they knew my wife had stepped out, yes, they would encourage and even facilitate it, I have no doubt.

What's the common thread? Most of the men I work with are wealthy, powerful and travel a lot. All things that, IMHO, seemed to contribute directly to A's. Beyond that, I don't see it, all different walks of life, religious and non, etc. Nothing more in common that I can see.

And yes, there have been A's in my parents marriage, but I didn't know it until much later in life. Doubt it had much to do with my W's A.

DevastatedDee posted 11/15/2017 10:29 AM

Dazed, I've had similar realizations. I haven't had a good relationship in my life. The one I thought was the one really great relationship is the one that I'm in now, and it was actually the worst one if you're measuring by pain.

The cheating and bad behavior was never my fault. However, it does show me that I have not had my own best interests in mind when choosing partners. I think I want to be happy, but for some reason I choose people who cannot love me without hurting me in one way or another. I have not chosen a stable man yet. Their behavior is not on me, but that is on me.

I kinda think that if R doesn't work for me and my husband, I'll just retire from relationships altogether. Have a FWB or two here and there. I do enjoy my own company and am not remotely afraid of being alone. I don't trust myself to make good decisions in love and for good reason.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 1:41 PM, November 15th (Wednesday)]

sisoon posted 11/15/2017 13:25 PM

You are right in identifying your trait of being a KISA....

Dazed, Being a KISA hasn't worked for you, so I think it's past time for you to give up the role.

And you can give up the role. You can become authentic, and the more authentic a person is, the better that person's life is likely to be.

I urge you to read about co-d and the Drama Triangle.

...there is nothing wrong with being a KISA to someone who appreciates it.

IMO, KISA refers to someone who must be a knight in shining armor at essentially all times. It's one type of co-dependence. It's one way to take on the Rescuer role in a Drama Triangle. That's plain unhealthy and unsustainable.

That's very different from, say, offering to help someone short and small put a suitcase into the carry-on compartment.

One big problem with basing a relationship on being a KISA is that the person the KISA is Rescuing builds up resentment against the Rescuer and will have to find some outlet for it.

No More Mr Nice Guy is pretty good on identifying co-d behaviors. I think the author is wrong on the source of the problem and laughably wrong on how to treat women, but there's a lot of good stuff in there.

babypuke posted 11/15/2017 15:46 PM

Yeah, I will also contribute to this one.

There are people who you never can trust (hedonists, e.g. sex or drug addicts, “you have to have tried everything once in your life!”, people needing constant validation from others), people who you can only partially trust, and people who you can trust the most (e.g., those with strong moral values, good upbringing). The people you can only partially trust will not display bad behaviors towards you (e.g., steal from you, cheat on you) AS LONG AS THEY VALUE YOU because they fear the consequences (e.g., losing you). Once they do not value you anymore for whatever subjective reason, they become a liability because the consequences do not matter anymore to them. It is frightening to think that the people you can only partially trust may constitute the majority, how many more people will steal without punishment by law do you think?, more than now?, possibly.

Further, people are need satisfiers. Positive self-esteem, belongingness (e.g., approval from others) are needs. It is debatable whether sex is a need, but we all know that it is something that many people (not monks, but then again we do know about sex scandals in the church community) pursue and want and "need".

Also, as I understood from the book, nice guys should become more clear about what they want. On the other hand, I think that “jerks” are not attractive because they are not nice, but that they DO convey clearly what it is that they want and have to offer. They for instance would, after having aroused the other person, clearly invite – verbally and/or non-verbally – their target for sex. And they get stalked sometimes, because after having “hooked” the other person, they suddenly retract the thing that they supply and that the other person wants to satisfy his or her needs.

Thus, should your SO be a person who you can only partially trust AND not value you anymore and/or have a high need to get his or her needs satisfied, or a single person be in search for whatever need satisfaction, and (s)he meets a “jerk” who clearly conveys “Hey, wanna get some?”, then there is a high chance that "it" happens.

In conclusion, it is an illusion that jerks have more fun, also jerks end up alone. But they are clear about what they want/have to offer. Thus, just become more clear about your needs/what you have to offer of value and your boundaries, and try to find someone who you can fully trust (i.e., picker issue).

The ones that you had were likely bad apples from the majority. It is not you, it was them. But do know, there are never any guarantees.

I wish you well brother, strength!

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