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Emotionless Infidelity Part 3

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SI Staff posted 12/14/2017 11:02 AM

Emotionless Infidelity, for those that have personally dealing with a WS who is into Prostitutes and/or Anonymous Encounters.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:03 AM, December 14th (Thursday)]

marji posted 12/14/2017 11:07 AM

Thank You!!!

kaygem posted 12/14/2017 11:16 AM

Phew! We are back up again! I need to be with my tribe!

I'd love to hear a check-in from the regulars (and newbies!) on EI.

How is everyone doing this week?

I was doing better, until today. An antiversary of sorts is coming up. H has ruined something so special for me by his EI and it seems every time a GOOD or a BAD (??!!) anniversary comes up I'm a mess. Coming up on a special memory day for my daughter..which is now ruined in so many ways for me because he started his cheating right around then. So I'm kind of pissed today.

And for some damn reason the whole "ick" factor has come into my mind again. Oral with a stranger slutmonkey is REALLY REALLY bothering me again. I mean, how sick does a person have to be to suck on a stranger sluts hoo ha??? It's just beyond gross.

So the rollercoaster is taking a dip today. I will say it's not such an extreme dip and I'm handling these feelings of pain and disgust SO much better than I used to. So far I haven't brought out the hammer....we shall see.

PricklePatch posted 12/14/2017 14:45 PM

I never noticed this. This was my fwh mo. He was the master of happy endings. His EA was on his side with an attention whore.

Jimmy1962 posted 12/14/2017 15:54 PM

Happy this is back up. I finally find a place that I fit and after one post it is full.

kaygem posted 12/14/2017 16:41 PM

Jimmy, it was full because we chat a LOT. Most of us know one another and try to keep up with each other on a weekly basis. Some only check in once a month or so..but we do talk a lot.

burn posted 12/15/2017 11:59 AM

3rd thread- yay us!

Dday anniversary for me today. So far I'm fine. I've been ok most of this week, but mostly because Ive been too busy with work, kids and bday party planning to think much. A year ago tonight I went to Target with my younger daughter to pick up some last minute stuff for her birthday party the next day and to get H a new phone for Christmas. While there I get the urge to look at the texts on his old phone. Then my life imploded at the electronics counter in Target.

Back to work for me before I start to decompensate!

Hope everyone is doing ok and finds their way here. It took me a bit to figure out that the board was full not just quiet.

kaygem posted 12/15/2017 13:41 PM

Burn,

I think that is a horrible way to find out. Standing in public at a counter. So so sorry. I'm glad you feel you are handling it well. Don't feel bad if you have a meltdown sometime later when it all slows down a bit. I didn't realize you were only one year out.

There are so many antiversarys for me this next few months I wonder how I'm going to handle it all. The START of his first set of ONS's in 2013 were in the winter. Then the second round of 2 ONS's were in the winter of 2016. Then our Dday is in the winter too. Sucks.

marji posted 12/15/2017 17:10 PM

OMG, BurnYour discovery story is beyond incredible--and awful. My god, finding out on his old phone while getting him a new one for Christmas!!! If that was in a made for TV movie no-one would believe it. No-one except us here at EI.

I thought my tale was interesting--noticing weekly withdrawals in the checkbook that I hadn't noticed for ten years!!! and finding out just months before his retirement. Lordy, if we get bored here we can have a discovery story competition.

But seriously Burn, I really admire your strength and your courage and your smarts. Wish we could all meet in person and give each other huge congratulations for staying sane despite the craziness.

[This message edited by marji at 5:11 PM, December 15th (Friday)]

NCMama709 posted 12/16/2017 17:08 PM

Now that I have read this post for nearly a year, I thought I should say thanks and hi. My WH apparently had a Craigslist hookup last fall. I found out last Dec. (12/2) and I have good and bad days. We have four children, our oldest goes to college this year and I struggled mightily with her last year at home being a disaster if I kicked WH out. So I have tried to figure this out and whether I can stay. He’s been very good in many ways, working hard to regain my trust, but it often seems in an instant, it can be gone. I have had no evidence of anything going on since Dday, but he told me one story and months later another. Mostly because he thought what he allegedly did was way worse than what he told me. My view is the cheating at all was really bad, the rest not good, but telling the truth is key. I still struggle with whether he told all. He is horribly ashamed. I hate to say I was more surprised by EI than an affair with someone he felt some attachment to (not that there was anyone like that, but he is far more romantic than I). Nice to meet you all.

Superesse posted 12/17/2017 13:43 PM

Welcome here, NCMama. So sorry you discovered this about your husband. It is the pits. I so can relate to being frozen on the fence, even after a year. I have been in Limbo for 15 years and don’t think it is a good way to live. I’m not recommending staying stuck like me, in other words.

I hope you can find some good real-life support as you make your mind up about what to do.

burn posted 12/17/2017 16:59 PM

Welcome NC mama-
Glad you found us here and decided to join in. I found out last December as well- its been a rough year. I look forward to hearing more from you!

Marji and Kaygem- I never thought of my Target story as being worse than the other stories I hear. I mean, the moment of discovery is the worst moment in all our lives, right? I cant really think of a "good" way to find out.

I did want to be sure to mention that I did NOT get him a new phone that night. I told the very confused salesgirl I couldnt buy the phone and managed to get myself and kid out of the store. At home, I set the phone down in front of WH and told him I wasnt able to get the new phone. I didnt confront him for three days because I wanted to wait until after the birthday festivities for my daughter. I ran on shock mode the whole time. I feel like the past few days have been like that. I've been to busy to think about things and havent had any meltdowns, which surprised me. WH hasnt mentioned the antiversary, but he has been unusually sweet and supportive and checking on me a lot.

NCMama709 posted 12/17/2017 18:26 PM

Burn, three days!! You are amazing. It is amazing what we do for our kids.

I found out right before heading out with our second daughter to shop at IKEA. Mostly because he feared he caught something (he didn’t); that made for a fun 2.5 hour drive and shopping trip after that and drive home. I have a few really close friends who know. My family doesn’t. I feared they would sense I was off last Christmas but I must have done a good job acting. Also my WH gave this tearful toast about how amazing I am and how incredibly lucky he is. My parents agreed and just thought he was being sappy. Scared shitless is more like it. I still have some positive feelings about WH and that’s a part of my decision too. I had my ex husband do the same but serially and had no trouble casting him out. Once I knew i wouldn’t ever lose custody. This surely made me think this was me, but I think not. I could have been more affectionate, he was the truly broken one. But still.

Superesse, I was born in DC. Moved away only after college and grad school. 15 years is tough if you don’t think it was the right call. I Wish you peace and many hugs from afar. Breaks my heart to think that for you.

Superesse posted 12/17/2017 22:00 PM

NCMama, I am really sorry to learn that this is your second unfaithful husband (same here).

I didn't catch how long you have been married to him. Is yours a blended family? Or have you been married to him a long time before this D-Day? I was only 4 years married to this WS on D-Day 1. If (2 years prior to D-Day) I hadn't quit working in my professional career, and then (8 months prior) signed a jumbo mortgage with him, after refinancing my own home that had been solely in my name, just to see the real estate market crash the next year, believe me I would have made very different moves.

I did what I thought I had to to, as so many unhappily married people have done, to hang on to something (in my case it was my home; my first cheating husband and I built a home and I lost it in a foreclosure when we divorced. I could just see history staring me in the face again, so I froze and hung on.) Thank you for your genuine feelings towards my situation. Sometimes, when people write little short histories summing up decades of their life, they don't come out and say "Nevertheless, I messed up my life by staying." They won't go quite that far; but I'm going to admit it. There are quite a few here I see who continue to suffer like I do from ongoing regret. I think it's normal, considering what we knew and what we pledged our lives to.

Getting the right kind of help to dig this stuff out by the roots is the only suggestion I can make, if you think you want to stay married. Do you believe you have the whole history of his EI activities? My first reaction when I JFO was to be so shocked that my shy hubby would have resorted to that sordid behavior, especially on the same day we made love. There went the old wives' tales about keeping your man satisfied so he wouldn't roam, ha.

I just kept pestering him with questions, because it made no sense to me or to anyone who knew him since we'd met - folks were all shocked and speechless that he, of all people, would do this. Bit by bit, the truth came out. First it was "during my single years, every six months or so, I guess..." (He was 39 when we married, do the math). Later on I said "That means the 4 years we dated are included in that count?" "Uh, yes..." Years later (when it didn't matter anyway as I haven't have sex with this man since 2002) my WS confessed to having paid for sex with over 110 prostitutes or massage parlor visits. Finally it all made sense, in a sick way. It was his lifestyle, as I think it was his father's too, based on the reactions his family had to him being arrested for soliciting in 2014. "What's the big deal?" His father said.

I know the availability of online sex has exploded in recent years, so maybe this isn't such an ingrained thing with your WS, as it was with mine. Nevertheless, I would be wondering about his story.

Again I am sorry you have found us here, and may you find a deeper Peace during this season. We don't deserve this and it's part of the huge devaluation of women and sex in our society, I'm sorry to say. You are not alone.

kaygem posted 12/17/2017 23:51 PM

Supresse,

As I read your story my heart broke a little bit more for you. It's really an extensive amount of years and whores.

It sounds like you and your H live more like room mates?


I hope it's okay to ask but I am wondering as if he got and passed on any STD's to you? I mean, that is a LOT of encounters! Did you have to suffer that as well? (forgive me if you said anything about it before, I don't remember).
I worry so much about 4 ONS's, even though he used condoms, I still worry. And these weren't prostitutes, just average sluts. I was tested but I heard HPV doesn't always show up right away?

kaygem posted 12/17/2017 23:52 PM

NC mama, glad to have you in the group. And sorry to have you too.
But hoping you stick around! Sending you hugs.

Superesse posted 12/18/2017 01:09 AM

kaygem, yes it is truly sickening to think about; I posted my story somewhere here when I just joined in September. I wrote a book, now long gone in the archives, I guess.

I did require WS to get tested for everything back after D-Day 1 (10/2/2002, as I posted about on my 15th year antiversary). Then he went back for another round of tests 6 months later, but I had stopped having any sexual contact with him from D Day forward.

To be frank, I can't understand it, when I read about hysterical bonding here, because I had enough "what-the-hell" sex, during the year or so after my first divorce. The last thing I wanted to do, was go back to THAT again... I shut down and truly was traumatized, way more than you might have expected, given my own history of sexual activity.

It's just that I had finally thought, before we married "This man is really special, he has never even had a girlfriend. Must be a virgin." (Can you believe I bought that line? But he did seem believable: way overweight and very devoted to his job, shy, soft-spoken, etc.) I could tell you more about why I felt he was safe, but it gets too personal. I will just say, that he was THE VERY LAST MAN ON EARTH I, or anyone in our circle of friends or family, thought would have this history. PAY ATTENTION, PEEPS!!!

Now that I'm getting help in understanding about EI and Childhood Sexual Abuse history, though, my eyes are being opened. This is not unheard of in cases of sexual abuse, the shame and hiding, and the way they come across as the opposite of the Casanova types we expect to deal with.

I will also tell you ladies this: my younger sister DIED from a rare form of squamous cell cancer of the breast, 2 years after she was diagnosed with a "bad Pap test." Her husband and only sex partner in life turned out to be a Sex Addict who screwed around on her during their entire 22 year marriage. She hung on for years, for her children. She died at age 54!

When she was diagnosed, she called me to see what I knew about our mother's cancer, because her doctors were asking for a family history. Well, my mother had remarried and we were not allowed legal access to her medical records due to HIPPA laws. I would have had to write a letter to her husband, who had already remarried again, and moved to another part of the country.

From calling the first hospital my mother told me she visited, I was able to get a snippet of information (that I was told I wasn't supposed to even be told), that my mother had been admitted for "a gynocological complaint." My mother's cancer was only discovered after an abdominal tumor had blocked her kidneys, and by that time it was Stage 4. She got treated with breast cancer chemotherapy, which did prolong her life 1 year. So her oncologists thought it was a female hormone-related cancer. Her death certificate said it was "breast cancer," yet she never had any observable breast tumors, they were all mostly in her abdomen or skin.

After our mother died, her half-sister, my Aunt, told me my mother had confessed to her that she'd been given a "bad Pap report" and had cancer in several sites. So, there was a lot I wasn't told, I now think.

My gynocologist, just hearing my "family history" of cancer, is solid that my mother died from aggressive cervical cancer, an STD. Based on the length of time since she and my father had separated, and calculating the average latency period for HPV (nobody really knows, but maybe 14 years), I suspect my mother's second husband, rather than my father, was the one who gave her the fatal HPV virus. She never wanted us to know her 2nd marriage wasn't a bed of roses. He was a handsome alcoholic, traveling salesman whose first wife had left him. She seemed so happy. Who knows.

But what is hard to accept, is that my younger sister knew this about our mother and still, when it came time my sister got a "bad Pap test report" herself, and she knew her husband had screwed around on her, she chose to blow off follow up annual exams!

I will never know for sure what killed the women in my family. but I darn sure ain't interested in more of that kind of "loving."

kaygem, I needed to get that off my chest, so thanks for asking, but after I posted I realized I didn't answer a concern you have about HPV and exposure.

I have been told most "professionals" use condoms but do we want to bet our lives on that? Not me. I recommend annual Pap tests until age 80. J/K. Medicare, I found out this year, won't pay for my continued cervical exam, as historic records showed a drop in cervical cancer at my age. Of course, those ladies were not in the Sexual Revolution and things may have changed. So I will continue to pay for my annual exam, silly as that may be. I know I'm over-cautious but with my story, you can see why.

[This message edited by Superesse at 1:39 AM, December 18th (Monday)]

marji posted 12/18/2017 08:36 AM

it's part of the huge devaluation of women and sex in our society

Thank you Supresse for acknowledging our issues, our horrors, our stories as part of a much larger picture. It doesn't make our suffering any less--in fact I now get triggered from the daily (hourly) news of the latest disgusting behavior--but it does help to take away the "what's wrong with me" feeling. What's wrong with me is that I am woman; that those my H exploited week after week, year after year, were women. We're part of that picture that needs to be changed.

At an SANON meeting last night after the formal part was over someone spoke of being triggered by all the harassment stories. I don't think of them as harassment which to me sounds like annoyance. I regard them as assault, as violation stories. The same thing just more clear. At any rate, what was ironic is that she was in one of the stories I had read about!!! She was saying she got really angry that her H could distance himself from "those other men." That what he did was different.

I have the same experience though H doesn't say he's different though technically what he did was. He's not disrobing or forcibly kissing; he didn't force anything--no he paid for what he wanted. But still extreme disregard for me, for the women he used--so just like these well known, rich and powerful guys being outed now, my H too was part of "the huge devaluation of women and sex in our society."

But on a different note, Supresse--you said "110 prostitutes." I think 48 weeks x 10 (years) =480 x 2 (week) =960 visits! ok--minus say 100 to be generous--holidays, sickness, whatever. So my H is about 860 massages. And, if I believe him, and knowing him + 2 years 3 months, + weekly SA meetings, 2 x week therapy sessions (an irony), plus psych visits and one sort of attempted suicide, 860 hjs. Sooooo, if I can do a little oneupmanship here . . . . well, enough said.

But seriously, I think I truly understand your choice to continue living with your H albeit in a platonic fashion. I've been doing the same. Can't really think of it as roommateship since I've had roommates and an H is not a roommate. I would not have cared if my roommate had sex, any kind, with another person. It's still a marriage of sorts albeit a celebate one and minus much affection.

And also wanted to express my sadness on the loss of your sister. These H's that we lose, these Ms that we lose, on top of all the other losses in our lives--a lot! And yet we keep going. You're strong. You're engaged in life. You do for others. And I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that people who know you look to you for help and guidance or maybe just a good word. And they know that you'll be kind and that you will help. You say you hung onto your home. Im thinking you hung on to a lot more than that. I think you've hung on to your strength and your humanity. I think you've hung on to your good mind, your intellect and your heart.

Superesse posted 12/18/2017 12:00 PM

Thank you marji for the sweet compliment, it made me draw in my breath, very touched. Wanted to add though, that the losses I suffered by staying “married” are more than I have talked about. Yes, I stayed in order not to be wiped out financially in one of the most expensive property sections of the country, where I had already chosen to live my remaining life before I married this WS. It would probably have been easier to walk away, relocate to some less pricey location and start over, but I had already done that in my first marriage, and it didn’t appeal to me. I didn’t want adultery to force me out of my life choices entirely, so here I am.

Yet my journey through this painful 15 years somehow wore out the compassion of my father and both of my brothers, who really had accepted my WS as SIL/BIL. You know, men bond with other men. Almost more than with me, I actually felt. Then D-Day hit and they were disappointed in him and I think disgusted that I didn’t end the marriage, so they wouldn’t have the on-going need to interact with my WS and try to be buddies while trying not to think what he did to me. (It is called cognitive disonance, people don’t like that.)

I was in pain, and my late father had to hear about it, to the point he said it was giving him nightmares, and would I just make up my mind. He said “I’ve never known you to be so indecisive, my dear. If it is that painful, get out. You know if you were still working, you’d have divorced him by now.” I was ashamed at myself to have to agree with my father. He saw me dwindle from his successful, strong professional engineer daughter (that he could feel pride about, I guess) to some foreigner’s pitiful wife, (that he couldn’t admire) so gradually, my father got less and less glad to hear from me. Our visits were about my non-stop drama with WS’s not “getting it” and this went on for a number of years. I can sort of understand his reaction, but it was another huge loss I suffered: my relationship with my father. A couple years later, my father suffered a massive stroke and was never the same again. Because by then I had a heavy course load (at the university I’d entered as a step to getting out of this situation), my brother had to take care of my Dad, causing further rifts between us. My brothers resented me for not being able to step up and manage my father’s life, on top of my own, and we no longer communicate much at all. Lost my brothers, too. His family is overseas and never accepted this marriage, so I do not count them as family any longer.

My father had died by D-Day 2, but the minute I got the call from my WS to come pick him up at the county jail, I swear I could “see” my father standing in my kitchen with me, over in the corner by the microwave oven he had bought us when we were just camping in this old house. I looked right at the microwave oven/my fathers’ figure, almost as if I could see him standing there, like old times. I said “Dad, you were right. We knew this was going to happen, didn’t we.” OMG I am crying as I type this!

Sorry this is long, but just wanted to explain how my response to this poison in my life has negatively affected almost every other relationship I thought I had. The brother who was Dad’s caregiver told me once, after Dad had died, that my father didn’t usually ask him to stop in for a visit with me, even though my house was just a mile out of their way to town. My brother told me it was because my father didn’t want to have to act happy around WS. Not sure if that’s true, considering the source, but I know my father would have preferred me to act happier about my marriage, or get out of it, as he had. I did neither.

Your words give me something to aim for, marji, even if I’m not really “there,” yet. Thanks again.

Superesse posted 12/18/2017 12:00 PM

Duplicate post, hit the back button and wasn’t seeing the first post, but it had gone! So that’s how that happens....

[This message edited by Superesse at 12:05 PM, December 18th (Monday)]

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