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How did he get away with it?

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Hardroadout posted 1/25/2018 10:21 AM

Its been 3 years since tt ended. I was in shock. I laid on the couch and was pretty much silent and immobile for several days. I stopped asking questions. He had given me details to answer my questions when I thought it was "only" one OW. When the truth came out, details didn't matter anymore. I got my basics: who, where, what, when, but I didn't ask many things. I was horribly traumatized, and didn't want to traumatize myself more.

Now, the "what happened" is cycling again.

Specifically, the how. How did he get away with it? The coworkers are easy. Sex in the bathroom, other people's offices. But, the others don't make sense. Bar flies? How the hell did he get away with going to bars? He didn't leave home much, didn't have short paychecks, was a hands on dad. How did he pull this on us?

Or, does it even matter now? We are in a good place. He and I have done a lot of work. As were years before I found out. Do I want to wake the dead?

somanyyears posted 1/25/2018 10:33 AM


Do I want to wake the dead?

Ask me over in General and I could tell you what I'd do if I could wake him up!! (bfOM)

I think a lot of us wonder how they managed to hide it so well, virtually right under our noses..

Makes me sick to my stomach when I think about it.

So sorry you're here.


Oldwounds posted 1/25/2018 10:38 AM

At 20-months in, I'm still a pretty good question generator as well.

And really, for the first time since dday, I'm not always asking them anymore. I'm not sure if I'm avoiding anything as much as, as you noted -- letting the dead sleep.

Although, if a specific question keeps recycling through my brain and will not go away, I'll sit down with her and and ask. Must know questions are getting really rare though, most of it is mild curiosity about the WW mindset.

My wife's LTA happened in an era when our sons were toddlers. Work and watching the rug rats took up every waking second.

I was impressed my wife was able to build a secret life inside of the busiest, most emotionally draining era of our lives. I did need the how. I wasn't as impressed with those answers, because that is where the sleaze factor amps up -- those opportunities in vehicles, bathrooms, ugh...etc.

But yeah, the how is kind of a biggie.

Maybe set up some time and approach it more from the vantage point of an anthropologist and interview him for science. And if that doesn't work, just go with a big city detective style -- and go with WTF were you thinking?

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 10:40 AM, January 25th (Thursday)]

demolishedinside posted 1/25/2018 11:05 AM


I ask. Every time something sits in there? I have to ask. It generally is nothing like after dday. It's a..."I need to ask this..." and then I do and I hate the response, and I say, "Ok then," and go do the dishes or something. Because damn it still hurts but if I let the questions fester, it is worse for me. I tend to handle the answers and absorb them in minutes now. Does that make sense?

shellbean posted 1/25/2018 12:34 PM

Prior to discovering WH affair, I used to tell myself that one of the reasons I just knew he would not cheat is because he just didn't have the time. He had a 45 minute window Monday - Friday that I told myself there's no way he has time. Turns out, 45 minutes is plenty of time...

Hardroadout posted 1/25/2018 13:00 PM

Shell, mine had less when he sneaked out. It is actually one of the things that sort of gives me a chuckle. OW were SO DESPERATE that quickies behind a bar down the road is what they settled for on stolen minutes. I am pretty sure they were on his "cigarette" runs that sometimes seemed to take a few minutes longer than they should have. I know what my WS is like in one of those types of quickies and let's just say they leave a lot to be desired. It also really helped me understand when WS says A sex wasn't good. We BS romanticize it. But, really, stolen quickies in 30 min or less time to get there, undress, do the unthinkable, get dressed, and drive home? And let's not forget the pressure to hurry so you don't get caught with your pants down (literally) in a parking lot of a busy bar. Ha. It had to have been wham bam thank you ma'am rubber burning (pun intended), did that just happen sex. No thank you.

[This message edited by Hardroadout at 1:02 PM, January 25th (Thursday)]

shellbean posted 1/25/2018 13:24 PM

Hardroad Did you ever think you could get to a place where this stuff is almost comical? I hear ya, loud and clear!

Hardroadout posted 1/25/2018 13:48 PM

Never once did I think I'd laugh. But, I guess that shows how far I have come. It is funny, pitifully funny.

Now, since I can laugh, maybe I should ask him. But, then, maybe I am content seeing it through my own eyes and having that chuckle.

2015sucked posted 1/25/2018 14:00 PM

The getting away with it, for my husband was easy...I guess. He lied and told me he had to work (he was always off on, so no extra pay, so I wouldn't have noticed any difference in his paycheck either!). No, he wasn't working...he was in a hotel in a neighboring town. AND...because he was checking in at 6 AM....he had to pay for the day before, since check-in isn't until 3 PM! AND....because he wasn't checking out until 3 PM...he had to pay for the next day, since check-out is 11 AM!! So he paid for THREE days to lay in a hotel bed fucking her!!
Obviously, all of it pisses me off, but when we're going somewhere and he asks me how much our hotel room is...I LOSE IT!

Hardroadout posted 1/25/2018 14:13 PM

2015, that sucks!!! I'd lose it on that too.

Hardroadout posted 1/25/2018 14:23 PM

Old, it is all sleazy but when you hear how they squeeze it into busy lives, the sleaze factor grows exponentially.

I was appalled my WS was having sex in a semi-public bathroom in a warehouse at work. Like wtf? Where strangers defecate and it smells like urine and it is not unheard of to pick up Hep B or C? I vomited on that fact. Or with OW sitting on someone else's desk smearing bodily fluids. And since there was no sink in the office, they had to touch his doorknob after fluid contact without handwashing! I work at a desk. What if someone did that on my desk? Its awful, and it has made me utterly paranoid about touching things in public. I was already a germaphobe, then was infected, and then learned what sleazy people do in public spaces that I may occupy. It seriously traumatized me, which is why I stopped asking. I needed to remain blissfully ignorant on some of the seedier things in life until I was at a point where I could hanndle it.

uxorpatricius posted 1/25/2018 14:25 PM

TT flashbacks. Not fun. I have them too. And then I have the occasional question that needs answering too (and I still ask). I had the advantage of completely exposed electronics on his and the xAPs part to have a lot of details fast. And so I may have gotten through most of it more quickly than most when the battle with her exploded. But the occasional question does come up.

I will even pull up the calendar from that year occasionally, to see if I can answer my own question by looking at where I was, and the notes I often put on the family calendar for where he said he was supposed to be.

But for you...the question of how did he get away with it?

I know why mine got away with it, and it may not be the same for everyone.

Mine did because the pattern of his affair fit into the points and places in our life that appeared to be a normal gap. His work. His hobbies. His community service.

Please do not beat yourself up for what you could not see. The easiest lie to get away with is the half lie -because it has a half truth, and the easiest deception to live is one that fits into the truths of a life.

Step back, be objective, then ask yourself, how often did you think he was at work, or helping someone, or doing a hobby when he was actually in the shadow of those things. So, you could barely see him, but not quite them.

Even the two flirtations my husband had before the full affair were people involved in the normal routine of his life.

I am almost afraid to say what was likely told to you about the "behind the bar down the road", because I could be too close to the truth, and the memory of it might come screaming back too vividly.

Usually the hardest part for me, was remembering when I was kind and understanding about the lies being told to me. And since I knew the xAP, even the lies that she told to me to cover for them. Lies that had me telling him to help her and her family out even more.

So, be gentle to yourself as you review these long ago memories. Find them. Forgive yourself for believing, because it is actually a compliment to you that you did have trust.

And if the gap fills in, please let the puzzle piece rest as a part of the past. It isn't here right now. But knowing it for what it is, knowing how to not be as easily deceived is just fine too.

Hugs and hang in there.

[This message edited by uxorpatricius at 2:26 PM, January 25th (Thursday)]

Hardroadout posted 1/25/2018 14:48 PM

Yes, I think they fell mostly in his normal gaps. Work was easy. He just "ran a few minutes behind." And, some of his barflies met him at work, so that was easy too. I just don't understand how he was getting to spend enough time at a bar to meet a barfly and spend enough time to get to sex and then to have sex.

What is the "too close to the truth" thing you mention? I like to hear other perspectives.

uxorpatricius posted 1/25/2018 15:34 PM

I hope these help and don't hurt in an un-healing way if they are too similar:

I heard, "I forgot my wallet and had to run back to work." Truth - He would forget things at work on purpose.
"I was on my way home and got a call from a client." Truth - He did, but texted at the meeting and met her after.
"I can't catch lunch. Already ate early. I had a meeting right after." Truth - Lunch with her, then a meeting with her. They had work crossover.

I also had the car trouble, getting gas, bad traffic that you likely had.

"She forgot paperwork at the office, I had to drop it off at her house. She is really a forgetful person" Truth - and the criticism hid the lie. She forgot the paperwork on purpose. Didn't call him, called someone else to ask who could bring it to her, but he was the only one available, she already knew that.

He also had a just a verbal flirtation with a friend of mine. They would talk about her husband and her sex life. He knew her husband through business. This friend was not the person he had the full blown affair with. Those lies looked like this (let's call the friend, Bychie, to keep it simple).
"Bychie stopped by the office with a gift for you. She said she couldn't reach you. We talked about her husband and the kids. She was thinking we should all get together soon. I am pretty busy though." (Yes, he would have the conversation, then avoid her...guilt? just and ego trip? who knows.)
His secretary said, "Bychie keeps dropping in. She is really using up a lot of his time. So I asked her why all the drop ins. She said all of you go way back and are like family. I asked your husband. He said it was true, but he didn't want to be rude to Bychie. He wants me to tell her he is on the phone next time? What do you think of all of this?" and it was true, we had all been friends for years...Bychie, when confronted, told me it was my fault that she was tempted to flirt with him, because she did that because I didn't answer her calls and texts fast enough. Bychie once showed my husband what she was wearing under her skirt...if we are family, is that incest? Hmmm...

He flirted that way with one other woman at about the same time. He said he thought it was flattering, but not really an affair because he would cut it off, and just feel good about the idea they were attracted to him.

My hairdresser. I sent him there to get a hair cut when his own barber went out of business. She showed him the photos from her vacation she showed me...then she showed him her "other" vacation photo album. Much more graphic.

He also came home that day to ask, "Do you think hairdresser has real boobs?" I said I didn't know. I found out later that she offered for him to feel her new set. She is now on her third marriage.

To his credit, he got scared on both of those situations. Switched to a new barber, and had his secretary start telling Bychie he wasn't available ( she had her husband call him to come pick up papers at their house once after that...Bychie didn't want the attention to end.) But he didn't tell me what was really happening, then ended up full blown affair about a year after.

But the hardest thing was learning how the xOW helped him hide things.

They would plan what he should say. His text, "Not fair. You are teasing me with that photo, I am right in line to check out of the hotel with my wife."

Her text, "So, delete, then tell her you don't feel well, and have to run to the rest room, if you want more photos."

He says to me, "Here is my wallet if you need it, can you check out? I don't feel so good, must be breakfast." Breakfast had been heavy and greasy....a half truth. I saw their texts on the OWs work phone about a half a year later. He was deleting. She was screen shooting and filing them.

He switched to soap like her husbands, so he could shower at her place during the work day. Her idea.

She showed him how to Facetime at night from WIFI so it wouldn't show up on phone records. He didn't even know what Facetime was. I was stunned at how much he knew about technology so fast that year - like teens! She was teaching him and they used it to hide the communications.

He shopped for lingerie at the same store for both of us, so there was only one receipt for me to see. He gave her two thongs. He gave me half a dozen, matching bras and clothing too. How messed up is that?

My point is that when people lie in affairs, they not only use half truths to cover, they even teach each other how to lie, especially the more experienced at deception they become.

I hope none of that is too triggery for you. But I also understand your need to get your brain to reveal what may be similar. I wanted to know everything too. I don't like missing puzzle pieces when it comes to my own life.
And I wanted to know how to sniff out the lies in the future.

[This message edited by uxorpatricius at 3:51 PM, January 25th (Thursday)]

Hardroadout posted 1/25/2018 16:01 PM

I guess it is easier than I thought to steal time. Thanks uxor. A lot of those sound familiar.

I still maintain...OWs can HAVE that part of my WS. The quick hit it and quit it. If they had just asked....I would have given him to them.

northeasternarea posted 1/25/2018 16:06 PM

He got away with it because I didn't question him. If he said his buddies were getting together to celebrate a retirement, I didn't question it. Even after Dday1. I didn't want to be the marriage police.

demolishedinside posted 1/25/2018 16:18 PM

I didnít ever look st his phone. He worked nights. He met her at HER FRIENDíS house during the day. When i was at work. Iíd never have known. I had no red flags except he seemed angry more often.

KatieG posted 1/26/2018 01:01 AM

Yes I agree that half truths are used, but the other big factor is the BS NOT assuming something is going on. Why would we, we trusted them?

Post-A, its a different world altogether.

psychmom posted 1/26/2018 08:11 AM

I will offer that for me, if I still had questions swirling I'd ask the, because, again for me, I'd keep obsessing and thinking about it and it would not go away on its own.

Now, after we've talked about his affairs for over 3 years now, I actually get bored at times if it comes up. And I will stop him from talking because I simply don't care to hear it anymore. But new things occasionally come up, usually a new way of viewing something, an 9bservation about brokenness or motives. That still comes up occasionally.

But I'm amazed how much my obsessions with the OW and obsessive thinking has stopped. I guess getting my answers and time have worked some magic. You will make the choice that is best for you, Hardroadout.

DevastatedDee posted 1/26/2018 09:10 AM

Mine got away with it because I treated him like a grown-ass man and not like a teenage boy. That's the bottom line. I expected him to be a grown-ass man and be at work when he said he was. I expected him to be a grown-ass man and not be texting prostitutes. I expected him to be a grown-ass man and uphold his commitment to me and treat me with the respect I deserved.

I did not marry a grown-ass man.

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