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How do you know the difference between gut feeling and paranoia?

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Luna10 posted 1/27/2018 03:44 AM

4 months past DDay. My H still works with the ow. He went from not wanting to give up his job to now telling me he'll do anything and he is ready to resign on Monday if that's what I want. She works on a project on a fixed term contract that finishes in March. They worked for the same company for 15 years but only met in April last year when my H became involved with her project. This is for the context that it was possible before not to know and see each other for so long.

Since DDay he assigned the project to somebody in his team, he doesn't reply to emails even though he's copied on it, the other guy is. He doesn't go to the meetings.

Since DDay he bumped into her twice (apparently) once in the company restaurant, he texted me while he was there telling me he's in the same sandwich queue, he feels nothing except wanting her to disappear and embarrassed because she's a reminder of what they've done to me.

Second time she came to talk to him and the guy in his team about work but I know it was an excuse, she could have emailed. He told me that evening. Again he felt nothing except looking at her and wondering what the hell was he thinking.

This was October and November. In December she sent an email addressed only to him. I asked him to unblock her and text her something on the lines of "if I wasn't clear we aren't on friendly terms. In the future ensure other people are copied on all the emails you may need to send to me". She replied and it made me think by the tone of her reply that he was honest and there was NC (related to affair behaviour).

In the last two weeks or so I have this conviction there has been contact. My IC asks me what does my gut tell me. I said I don't know. I don't know if it is my gut telling me it has been contact or if it is my brain trying to protect me, some sort of paranoia. The fact that it is quiet now makes me freak out. He keeps saying he doesn't want to make up that he's seen her just for my piece of mind. He hasn't seen her because he spends his days in meetings and eats by his desk. She's on another floor and no occasion to see her.

So how do you veterans know when it is your gut or when it is simple paranoia? Obviously my gut made me discover the A. But now I really don't know...

dacs posted 1/27/2018 08:06 AM

Sorry, I'm not a veteran. In fact I'm only 2 weeks out from dday. My wh was also seeing a coworker and it's been extremely difficult for me when he leaves for work. In fact, we've put in the same rules as you and your wh as far as NC with the OP. I do know that for the past 6 months my gut told me one thing while my spouse lied. Trust your gut. That's what I would do...

sisoon posted 1/27/2018 09:40 AM

it's hard to trust your gut this soon, but ....

What else is he doing to recover?

annb posted 1/27/2018 09:53 AM

I'm in the always trust your gut camp.

I am 12 years out, and while my WH swears she never contacted him after D-Day, how could I really know?

The only reason my sanity was saved was bc she worked at another site 3,000 miles across the country. OW did send him some bogus emails several months after D-Day from a Hotmail account. We'd be stupid to not know it was her, just some cryptic messages indicating she missed him.

What else is your WH doing to help you feel safe? Did he read Not Just Friends and How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair?

Many times cheaters lie thinking they are protecting us. Not.

Is he accountable for all his time?

NoLongerAlive posted 1/27/2018 11:02 AM

I don't like using the term paranoia because it implies the thoughts are irrational or unwarranted; at 4 months out, it's still very natural to be hyper-vigilant and suspicious. The WS has to earn back the right to be trusted and it takes a long time. I have been advised to go by WH's actions and consistency. There are days when he messes up, can't expect someone to change overnight or be perfect, so I try not to overreact and focus more on the overall trend. Hope this helps.

Luna10 posted 1/27/2018 11:25 AM

Never mind guys, just had dday 2 they have kept in touch over the last four months...

cancuncrushed posted 1/27/2018 11:39 AM

I doubted my gut...

I had feelings...and told my self surely not!!!! I must be wrong...and I set it aside, and waited for proof...I didn't dismiss anything, just kept my eyes open...
H is NPD...I was being controlled and manipulated, and lied too....even set up...

I look aback now, and see so many red flags. I am sorry you had another dday...I guess you knew too..

annb posted 1/27/2018 11:44 AM

Oh, Luna, I am so sorry!

We are here for you when you need us.

I'm so sorry he is putting you through this hell.

Hugs...

Oldwounds posted 1/27/2018 11:46 AM

Never mind guys, just had dday 2 they have kept in touch over the last four months...

Sorry to hear Luna.

Only chance to truly get NC is another job away from AP.


SAM25nov2016 posted 1/27/2018 11:55 AM

WTF - I'm so so sorry for you.

This is utter bullshit - who are these people??? It's pure abuse.

BearlyBreathing posted 1/27/2018 12:02 PM

Ah damn Luna. I am so sorry. Been there, know the pain.
We’re here for you.

allusions posted 1/27/2018 12:04 PM

He went from not wanting to give up his job to now telling me he'll do anything and he is ready to resign on Monday if that's what I want.
Tell him to resign on Monday.

Luna10 posted 1/27/2018 12:05 PM

Today was the DDay 1 four months anniversary. Great present. I kept telling him I know something is wrong as his emotional state was a yo-yo stating he wants to kill himself on Thursday.

I kept getting anonymous calls in the last three days (never had those before) so I sat him down today and told him I am calling her. He confessed to seeing her in the last 4 months at work trying to keep her sweet as she was blackmailing him to tell me everything. Yes you guessed right there was more to the initial affair, sex in the car, taking the day off and spending it with her back in September before I found out. Plus sexting and naked pictures they sent to each other which he didn't want me to know about.

So after he confessed because he said she's spent the last three weeks like a psycho, telling him she's calling me and shouting at him how dare he spend time with his wife, apparently I am the psycho monitoring his mobile and emails trying to control him, she was upset she couldn't contact him all the time, this morning he even drove to work with an excuse to call her from his desk phone (I was waiting in the car) as she said if he doesn't get in touch this weekend she's calling me to tell me everything.

So he cried and confessed that he didn't know how to come out of it. Maybe telling me the whole truth so she had nothing else?!

Anyway I called her and we're meeting up on Monday (the three of us). At the moment I don't know what to do with him. He says he hates her guts, he's terrified of her, he indeed wanted to end his life on Thursday because he couldn't deal with it anymore.

I don't know if to boot him out or to be a team against her as he asked me/begged me. He's willing to resign on Monday or at least to go to HR and give them all the details and put his faith in their hands.

SAM25nov2016 posted 1/27/2018 12:23 PM

Ok Luna - we're here for you.

AND you're handling this like a superstar!

I don't think you should meet her - I suggest telling her you'll speak to her over the phone - tell her it's the least she could do - tell her you appreciate it.

As for Monday have your husband go first thing to HR - in fact have him send a meeting request to them today - don't tell OW.

Now demand your WH tell you everything! You don't want to hear anything NEW from her.

I say come at this as a team you don't have to make any long term R decisions but this manipulative OW does NOT get to call the shots. She's in for a rude awakening.

Sending strength to you!

[This message edited by SAM25nov2016 at 12:24 PM, January 27th (Saturday)]

Smjsome1 posted 1/27/2018 12:45 PM

Since it’s a work thing you shouldn’t speak to her at all.

You do NOT want it to become a she said, she said, he said moment for her to muddy the waters with.

At the very least have a third party speak to her, maybe a list of questions?

Oldwounds posted 1/27/2018 13:15 PM

I'm not sure a team meeting is a great idea, especially if it is an AP demand.

New job for sure, since WH appears to be out of his depth when he is around her.

WH best build you an accurate timeline today, so you can begin to consider what you're dealing with and know whether or not you'll want to move forward together or solo.

At least you now know the difference between gut feeling and paranoia. Always go with your gut!

annb posted 1/27/2018 13:32 PM

Please DO NOT engage with her. She is not your friend.

Your WH needs to go NC with her immediately, no discussing between the two of you, that's breaking NC.

Have him march straight into HR on Monday.

If necessary, he has to quit.

Unfortunately, she's only there two more months, your husband opened up Pandora's Box by continuing to communicate with her. However, don't be so sure his story is the exact truth, remember cheaters lie.

Why didn't you go into work with him and listen in on the conversation? You have no idea what he said to her, none. When my WH called OW shortly after D-Day, I was on the other line listening to every.single.word.

I'd insist he write a timeline as suggested by another poster, I mean every single thing that comes to mind.

Personally, I would team up with him against OW if she is surely a bunny boiler. You can always make a decision in the future about consequences for his continued lies. Apparently, he lied to the IC as well?

My concern is this OW now has naked pictures that could be very damaging.

truthsetmefree posted 1/27/2018 13:43 PM

He's in damage control mode now, Luna...and his anxiety is fueled by the fact that he is losing control of this situation. Basically, he is facing consequences for his actions.

If he were truly remorseful, the solution is both logical and organic: Tell you the whole truth. In WS speak it's called "owning your shit". And it's what truly remorseful WSs do.

He's not continued contact with the OW because he's trying to sweet her into letting him off the hook. He's continued contact first and foremost because he's not truly remorseful. (See solution above.) As part of his damage control, he's likely painting you both as psycho crazy women to each other. What better way to get both the heat off him while increasing his credibility by "pre-discrediting" each woman to the other. (Aren't you already thinking she must by psycho...or your poor H. has really gotten himself in a mess and now needs your help? Yeah...it's a pretty effective strategy.)

In general cases, there are usually two reason why OW begin contacting the wife. Either the guy is not moving fast enough at getting rid of his wife as he has promised (and the OW can actually see herself as helping him - because, you know...his wife is such an unstable crazy bitch) - or she's been jilted and bamboozled and she's angry. (You will usually know these women right away...they aren't typically the "hang-up" kind of calls.)

I don't know whether the OW is married or not - that's something worth you investigating on your own. But the player in this triangulation of your marriage is your husband. Of all involved, he's the one to be least trusted because right now he's the one with the most to lose. I would NOT meet with the three of them together. I can all put guarantee you that he's still telling you one thing and her another - and none of it paints either of you in a good picture. Listen to what he is telling you about her because he's probably telling her the same thing about you.

My immediate suggestions to you would be:

1. Remind him that the quickest way for this all to be resolved is for him to tell the entire truth.
2. Listen and observe WAY MORE than you interact. Become as passive in your responses as you possibly can.
3. Begin any investigation that you can - and in stealth mode. Find out if she is married, go back through any phone records, email accounts, computer searches, etc. Do not let him know you are doing any of this....
4. Know that he's going to be distraught and offer extreme responses. This may be crying, professing of love, quitting his job, hating the OW, etc. These are all attempts to regain control of the situation. Fitler them through that lens.
5. Quietly see an attorney. Most consults are free. You don't have to file. But you do need to take back some of your power - and gathering information is an effective way to do that.

I'm sorry you are going through this. You are not alone. If you can do what most of us veterans can only wish we had done, you will greatly tip the scales in your favor.

secondtime posted 1/27/2018 13:43 PM

I don't know how things go in the UK.

If your husband goes to HR, and admits his affair, will he be breaking any workplace policy and then become fired?

Will it become a he-said-she-said, in which the company believes her over him, and he's fired? She could show the nude pictures and claim sexual harassment.

How easy will it be for your husband to get a job if he's been fired or immediately resigns?

What's your financial situation like...is it on good enough footing that you can handle your DH being unemployed for a while if it comes to that?

Is your husband working on his resume right now and job searching right now?

Your husband needs to find a new job. If you need his income in any capacity...I would chose a path that will give him the greatest chance of finding a new job as easily/quickly as possible.

LongSigh posted 1/27/2018 13:51 PM

Luna,

That’s a really crappy situation, I am so sorry. I just wanted to throw a different perspective out there, devils advocate you know??

I would be giddy for such a meeting. You get to have the two of them at the same table. It will be ridiculously hard and will screw you up emotionally but you’ll also gain so much from observing their interactions, hearing what each has to say in front of the other. You have the chance to get the kind of truth few of us ever do.

She’s angry and jealous. She’ll be sure to tell you every horrible thing he’s said about you and every hurtful thing they’ve done. My husband is a serial cheater and I’ve talked with all but one of his OW. They are FAR more forthcoming than husbands are. Especially when they feel burned. Keep in mind, my WH is a serial cheater so managing my perception was a core issue for him. That may not be the case with yours. If you wonder though, this is where you get the real answers.

Plus, I can’t imagine how scary and uncomfortable that meeting would be for your WH. There’s a little vengeance in it.

I wish you the best hon. You’ll know what’s best for you. I just thought I’d throw another option into the mix.

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