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Left the room..... Again.

Angelvictorious posted 1/29/2018 06:57 AM

So we were talking about things and I said I think he needs help for his sex issues/problems. This comes about from his telling me that A happened because he wanted more of me I can not get my head around that still to this day.
He said he only needs to talk to me, to be able to tell me anything, this way if a situation comes up like before and temptation is there he can come to me to talk and nothing would happen. I said you can't put that on me, and you don't know how you would react until it happened again. I would hope he woukdnt do it but in my heart I can't believe that he wouldn't now. Needless to say he got pissed off and has left the room! I can't tell him what he wants to hear. Am I being unfair? I want to believe things and trust him again but I can't no matter how much I try yet and I hate being expected to believe him and what he says because he believes it. I said to him that I believe that he believes what he is telling me but that seemed to make it worse. Maybe I chose the wrong words? Idk.

cactusflower posted 1/29/2018 07:04 AM

What exactly does he need to talk to you about? Can you be more specific?

How does he think that talking to you will alleviate his desire to stray?

sudra posted 1/29/2018 07:07 AM

What exactly does he need to talk to you about? Can you be more specific?
How does he think that talking to you will alleviate his desire to stray?

It doesn't matter - it's blame shifting.

Don't let him do this to you. Nothing you did or did not do caused him to cheat.

Angelvictorious posted 1/29/2018 07:11 AM

He thinks if we are in a goid place communicating etc that if he felt someone was tempting him or whatever that he would be able to come to me to talk about it and all would be good, hard to explain.im not sure I fully get it. He feels like we didn't talk and he couldn't come to me about anything and if he did I didn't listen (which I think is bull) before the A. That's why I think he needs a bit if ic too maybe. Or even come on here and try to talk in the ws section.

sudra posted 1/29/2018 07:16 AM

It's not your job to talk him out of an affair when he's attracted to someone. If he had good boundaries, he wouldn't be in a position where an affair was even a possibility.

It's his job to be a faithful husband, and that's what he promised you when he said his wedding vows.

Don't let him put this on you.

Angelvictorious posted 1/29/2018 07:17 AM

Sudra I agree, and I said by putting that on me if he does cheat again then I would feel it was my fault for not listening or whatever.i am supposed to be doing. Ii don't think it's fair to want me to take that on.

cactusflower posted 1/29/2018 07:24 AM

@ sudra - I don't see it the way you are saying. I think he's saying that some type of general closeness or lack of communication is missing in the marriage? Perhaps he feels alone with his W and wants them to communicate on a deeper level?

I am not seeing his request (based on OP's post) as simply about cheating.

And not for nothing - if someone was tempting my H, or acting inappropriately around him, I would hope he would mention it to me. At least I wouldn't be blind-sided about it 2 years later.

I have always told my H about men hitting on me. He has told me about women hitting on him in the past. Except for the one I found out about. Never heard a peep about her.

sudra posted 1/29/2018 08:14 AM

He thinks if we are in a goid place communicating etc that if he felt someone was tempting him or whatever that he would be able to come to me to talk about it and all would be good

So if you're in a good place communicating, he won't cheat.

I'm sorry, that's blame shifting. He needs to be a big boy and learn to not cheat all on his own.

The1stWife posted 1/29/2018 09:04 AM

So sorry you are here. But you will get good advice and support.

So to review:

He cheated - PA
He lied
He is excuse isvhe cheated on his birthday because he ďknewĒ he wasnít getting any sex from you that night
The crazy OW is harassing you - sending you gifts

And your H expects that you will agree to his big ideato accept HIS plan that if he gets tempted he will come and tell you

And walks out of the room when you donít give him what he wants.

My H tried that crap with me. We should all be friends. Me and my H and the OW. Yes he was serious!!!

It is called A fog. It is the state of mind where the Cheater believes they are entitled to ďbe happyĒ no matter what.

The Cheater says and does some ridiculous things during this phase. Some cheaters continue down this self destructive path. Others wise up and get off the ďitís all about meĒ train and start to focus on the M and the destruction they have caused.

I watched my H parade his ďloveĒ for the OW in front of me. Put me in false reconciliation too. It wasnít until I took my power back and stood up to him did it come to a screeching halt. The A ended immediately. He has tried to make amends every day for the pain and damage he caused.

Read up on the 180 too in the Healing Library. It will help YOU detach from him in a way to stop the continued drama.
And to this day I donít do my Hís laundry or errands or cook a meal if I donít feel like it. And he is only too happy to do it himself.

I wish you the best of luck. But I urge you to consider how to regain control and start your own healing with a therapist. It can make all the difference.

And when he walks out of the room like a spoiled brat - call him on it. Tell him you are sorry that he cannot discuss an issue like an adult but resorts to passive aggressive behavior.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:25 AM, January 29th (Monday)]

DevastatedDee posted 1/29/2018 10:27 AM

I'm trying to picture how this plays out in real life.

"Hey honey, just wanted to let you know that I really wanted to fuck this chick today and she's been on my mind. I've considered getting her number. Can you talk me out of it?"

I mean...I'm coming up short on a reaction to that that doesn't involve my husband becoming a single man. We ALL find other people attractive. So freakin' what? Not sleeping with them while married isn't something that one should need talking out of.

strugglebus posted 1/29/2018 10:33 AM

Good communication is GREAT. But most humans - especially those with a history of lying and deceit- need to get help for that. Especially if he is storming out of rooms when he is disagreed with. That is definitely not a sign he can handle this amazing higher level communication on his own just yet.

You set the rules of engagement for reconciliation. You can place boundaries of what is and is not acceptable to you. You are well within your right to say "In order to feel safe enough to stay with you, I need you to seek professional help for this problem."

Oldwounds posted 1/29/2018 10:49 AM

We ALL find other people attractive. So freakin' what? Not sleeping with them while married isn't something that one should need talking out of.

Yeah - this from Dee is the key point here.

Initially, after dday, my wife thought she was perfectly safe simply because she wasn't sleeping with anyone outside of our marriage anymore. But she was still living on her slippery slope -- enjoying the validation from men from what she considered was a safer distance. We went over all of those relationships, most of them were dudes slowly pushing in on her boundaries -- calling her more often beyond work, one on one lunches with personal stuff being discussed as much or more than business, etc.

But it wasn't my job to enforce boundaries to keep her from falling back into the pattern that led to infidelity -- SHE had to do that and learn how -- and learn in a hurry in order for me to stick around.

It isn't your job to talk your husband off a ledge HE chooses to be on.

Even IF you're communicating well it isn't enough to stop him from falling into his own traps. Why does he need validation from strangers? That is why he needs IC.

sudra posted 1/29/2018 12:36 PM

I posted this on your other thread... I didn't want you to miss it.

I disagree with much of Swatter's advice.

It sounds like you might be a little verbally abusive?
No, it doesn't.

It does not sound like you are verbally abusive to me. You are speaking your pain. It doesn't always come out pretty. If he wants to save the marriage, he needs to learn to deal with this, not you. Later you can do better but this is pure pain from you at this point. And it has to come out somehow. If he's really trying to help you, he will hear your pain rather than your specific words and respond accordingly. He will not withdraw, he will recognize the pain and speak to that.

Healing from an affair is 2-5 years (More like 3-5 if you ask me). You're ten months out - still the beginning. It sounds to me like your feelings are completely normal.

Your suffering as if it were DDay, 10 months later. You are going to have to start trying to limit your suffering.
No, you are processing your pain. That's why you ask the same questions over and over. That's why you review the same "evidence" over and over. Until you accept what he did, you process your pain. It's normal.

I hearing you mention IC for yourself. Always a good idea when you are in this much pain. Your WS is hopefully in counseling to learn why he did this to you.

Honestly, AV, I read many of your old posts. When asked what your WS is doing, you tell how he is nicer to you, works less, tells you you are pretty, gives you access to his passwords and devices... You do realize these are the EASY things, right?

What hard work is he doing to change his core brokenness that allowed him to betray you and your family?
Is he in IC? This is essential for a cheater. He has to change or he will never again be a safe partner.
Has he taken a polygraph so you know that you have the truth? Has he gotten a post-nup to protect you if he does it again?
Does he answer your questions as many times as you need to ask without being defensive?
Does he apologize for specific hurts rather than just a general apology for cheating? My husband had sex, for the first time with OW, on Valentines day. He didn't say, "I'm sorry I had sex with her on VD." He said, "I'm so sorry that because of my selfish behavior, I've taken a day that should be filled with fun and romance for you and for us, and made it into a painful reminder of what a horrible thing I did you you and our son." That's an apology.
Is he willing to do all of this until...? There's no deadline. It's until you are healed.

In another post you said :

On the other side I feel like if he could, he would now rug sweep from here because we have been over and over things and I think it frustrates him a little at times that he thinks I can't accept his efforts and his telling me how much he wants to fix what he did and for us to look to the future instead of dragging every detail up.

He suggested you have sex with someone because it would give him an easy out from the guilt. He has not considered at all what that would do to you. You've acted with integrity and not cheated during your marriage and he wants you to give that up to make him feel better? No!

You are right - he's a rug sweeper. He want to do the easy stuff and have his happy marriage and happy wife back.

You cannot heal with a rug sweeper. Not at ten months and not at ten years. He has to do the work for you to get better at this point. Yes, you need to take care of yourself as well, but this is on him at this point, not you.

I think you need to ask more of your WH. Much more.

crazyblindsided posted 1/29/2018 12:38 PM

I would tell him to go and pound sand but that is me

findingjoy posted 1/29/2018 13:30 PM

I think he needs a LOT of I.C. to take full ownership of his shitty choices.

Sure communication could improve in almost all marriages. So what? If communication takes a dive he's allowed to cheat? What if you're unavailable because of illness (yours or a loved ones)? That makes it ok for him to cheat?

No, this is classic blameshifting. He doesn't get it at all.

Make him own it. Fully.

Later work on the marriage.

ETA - he's trying to avoid doing the work. He doesn't want to dig in and be vulnerable with an outside, professional, objective 3rd party. He wants you to be his counselor. He wants you to heal him.

This is very unhealthy. Don't buy into this.

[This message edited by findingjoy at 1:31 PM, January 29th (Monday)]

Angelvictorious posted 1/29/2018 18:55 PM

Cactusflower you are right in that there was a lack of general closeness pre A. But the communication side of things I don't fully accept with him. He has told me many times that I don't listen to him when he talks to me. I have found this very frustrating because I always do listen, I might not say anything back, sometimes I just don't know what to say so I "listen", other times it might not be what he wants/needs to hear when I do answer, but I am listening! I also know that when I asked him to listen to my problems previously he didn't or we probably wouldn't be in this mess now. The topics of my not listening in general previously was our sex life and how much is enough for him vs me vs what is "normal" (whatever the F normal is!!) Work/money pressure. We did have issues before the A started and I am not totally blameless but they were nothing serious, we didn't argue and fight, looking back over it as we have, we realised we had grown apart somewhat as people can do in a long relationship with kids, pets, hobbies, life in general, I learnt to just get on with stuff without him around all the time, work was a huge time consumer of our relationship and I guess I didn't see that he was lonely too and neither of us really talked about it, about feeling alone. I could have easily filled my void with an A but didn't. He could have tried to be more open and listen to me when I would tell him what I needed to feel more wanted and in turn feel more closeness and interested in connecting with him that way. For years he would work, go to gym, come home eat, watch tv, I'd have a window of about an hour to talk but this was hard becuase of tv and then bed, then he would throw his arm over and hope I would feel like some love!! sorry, no. His A was purely about sex. So while I am totally committed to working on better, open communication with him I can't take on his issues and he clearly has them and needs to explore them outside of me. Thanks for your replies.

Angelvictorious posted 1/29/2018 19:11 PM

The1stwife

He cheated - PA Yes.
He lied Yes.
He is excuse isvhe cheated on his birthday because he ďknewĒ he wasnít getting any sex from you that night Yes.
The crazy OW is harassing you - sending you gifts Yes.

And your H expects that you will agree to his big ideato accept HIS plan that if he gets tempted he will come and tell you Yes.

And walks out of the room when you donít give him what he wants. Not always, but when he gets really frustrated when he thinks I am "not listening" or he is too upset Yes.

I usually do call him out on it because it frustrates me even more when he does that,it feels like he can't be bothered with me but lately I just let him walk out and leave him to it because I don't have the mental energy to keep going on it or our dd is home and I don't want things to esculate.
I cant believe your husband wanted you to be friends with OW! That is insane. Thanks for your advice and reply

truthsetmefree posted 1/29/2018 21:04 PM

Personally, I am bothered most by his walking out of a discussion. It sounds to not necessarily be an unusual response when it is a topic he doesn't wish to discuss. Is that true? Secondly, does he return to the topic/discussion at a later time...or is it just dropped?

Angelvictorious posted 1/29/2018 21:27 PM

DevistatedDee Yes I too have wondered about it, trying to work out what he is trying to get me to understand. I don't think it's to talk him out of it but more that we are open and communicating and things would be good between us that he would mention something that wasn't right where as before and in the case of OW contacting him, he never mentioned it to me. If he had I would have shut that shit down straight away!! But again I am not 100% sure what he is thinking on that. I think he needs to think and explain it better what he means or I might ask IC when I get my appointment.
I agree too that we all find other people attractive at some point in our lives, I think that is totally normal, doing something about it when with someone else is not. I have been attracted to a couple of people over the 25 years we have been together but NEVER would I have acted on it and if I had really wanted to, I would have ended us first. Thanks for your reply.

Strugglebus The leaving the room has been his way forever, but before A I didn't really call him up on it too much. I figured some people need to go away, cool down and then come back and I used to accept that but when it comes to A topic i'm not really wanting to accept that anymore, it makes me feel alone and not important enough to stick it out, he needs to work on that. Thanks for your reply.

Oldwounds you get my point exactly. Before OW come along we didn't have boundry issues, he wasn't one to step over them or need/seek female validation. He needed sex and wasn't getting his quota as I like to think of it now and also other things going on in his head so off he went when the (known to him) OW put up the chase for him, he knew it would be easy to get off her even though this time, she was married to! Thanks for your reply.

Crazyblindsided

FindingjyoyYou said exactly what I have said to him, what if I got sick or was dealing with something heavy at the time and dropped the ball for a while? It's too much for me to be loaded with. To many variables to make it come unstuck. It's not even logical to me. Thanks for the reply.


Sudra re verbally abusive, thanks for your thoughts on that, I have felt bad about it but it usually comes through at full force when I am hurting intensely over the A. The utterly stupid things he did and timing of it, it just makes me want to lash out and so I do it verbally. Iíve always dealt with intense anger that way, it comes out with a sting and sarcasm at times and I know it's bad. Maybe I need anger management? Idk.
About the processing and asking the same things over and over is what I was hoping to get out of the IC sessions when I go. He is not in any IC and I think he needs it too. Thanks also for your honesty in pointing out from my old posts and that they are the easy things he is doing. To be honest, no, I didn't realise they were the easy things, they are the things that have been so lacking in our relationship especially the coming home from work on time that I thought I was getting a good deal in all the years he has never finished work and just come home on any regular basis, he works for himself and so there is always something to do. It has been a huge issue for me for years and I appreciated that he has taken it seriously that I am not happy with the situation as it was. He made the changes. I guess they are things to build on.
Now to answer your questions:
What hard work is he doing to change his core brokenness that allowed him to betray you and your family? He has began to look into himself and his choices and what they have done and admit his faults. Not something he would have ever done previously. But other than that I don't really know what to answer.
Is he in IC? This is essential for a cheater. He has to change or he will never again be a safe partner. No not in IC. He says he doesnít need it. He's working on himself.
Has he taken a polygraph so you know that you have the truth? Has he gotten a post-nup to protect you if he does it again? No Iím not in the US and these are not routine here. I do believe that he has told me the truth when I have asked especially after the birthday confession. I donít think there is anything else. What I ask is the same stuff over and over like, why did you not tell her no? how did you walk in the door to our home and us and sit amongst us as normal etc. specific things about sex and the A that he has given me the answer but I want to hear them again because I have either not remembered or just need to hear it even though it makes me feel worse at times.
Does he answer your questions as many times as you need to ask without being defensive? On most occasions yes. But sometimes and usually after we have had a good time out or something he doesnít seem to understand that I need to ask something or go over and over it. He says it makes him have to think about her and what they did and he says it disgusts him now and he feels terrible about what he has done to me and our relationships and just doesnít want to go over it but knows I need to. Itís like he does it but would rather rugs weep it once itís been dissected and discussed.
Does he apologize for specific hurts rather than just a general apology for cheating? My husband had sex, for the first time with OW, on Valentines day. He didn't say, "I'm sorry I had sex with her on VD." He said, "I'm so sorry that because of my selfish behavior, I've taken a day that should be filled with fun and romance for you and for us, and made it into a painful reminder of what a horrible thing I did you you and our son." That's an apology. Yes kind of. Like Iíve mentioned the timing of his A sucks, it went all through the festive season, our birthdays, many yearly events we attend, Valentines day ( which he swears he did not see her on or give her anything or she him) right up until march. So many times he has said sorry but I donít think they have been as in depth as you have described. The birthday in particular he said he has to live with it forever what he did, his birthday is now Fíd. Not really the words I was looking for as we were sitting home waiting for him. He said sorry but I just donít recall it being sorry for me, more that he did it and now itís known to me and him forever that he banged someone on his birthday while with me. I donít know. This particular topic really hurts me deeply. He did a letter for me to read because he is not great with words so thought a letter might help and it had some apologies in there but I read it once and don't remember everything in it and he never printed it off for me. It's on his computer. Maybe I need to re read it.
Is he willing to do all of this until...? There's no deadline. It's until you are healed Honestly, I donít know. I donít know if he can. I really need him to understand how intense the pain is when I am triggering but am beginning to think he cant. The whole go F someone else to get him back is a weird one, who would even want their spouse to do that? and like you said, what it would do to me? I can tell you it would mess me up even more than I am now! I just donít get it at all. I donít know if he is totally serious or if itís when he is really angry and upset and just wants to be paid back I donít know. It has not been said at a time with things are calm and logical so I am thinking he just blurts that one out. Something to discuss at a normal time.
I think you need to ask more of your WH. Much more. Iím not sure what more I need to ask. If he just tried to understand me when I am having a really dark time and just be there for me and not walk out the room when it gets heated and continues to do what he has been doing then I would be happy. He has improved in himself in a lot of areas that were lacking pre A and he does make an effort to make things better for me and make me happy but itís not possible all of the time and he doesnít get that , if he did then that would help me a lot. I would also like him to seek some IC but I donít know if that will happen. I will see what it's about when I go and then talk to him again about it. At the moment he is pretty certain "he doesnít need it, he is working on it". So I guess if it doesnít happen, then I will continue to work on me and keep the belief that he may very well do it again and if he does cheat again, I would not offer R a second time. I know that in my heart. I honestly believe I have done the right thing in offering R to him, I want to believe he is 100% in, and I do as much as I can trust if that makes sense? But I also strongly believe if you do this to someone once and see the devastating outcome you have caused on that person and your relationship and go back for a second A, then you do not deserve your spouse or another chance at that relationship, it would be killed off completely. He would be shown the door. Thanks for your advice and reply and I hope if you think I am off with the fairies or something you let me know


Angelvictorious posted 1/29/2018 21:37 PM

truthsetmefree no it hasn't been unusual over the years when things have got really heated.
Most of the time I would have to say the topic/discussion is dropped, usually because it has been discussed over and over in relation to A. If it is something new even about A, then no he doesn't leave the room unless I keep going on and on about it, then he will have enough and leave. It's like we discuss something, get it out there, then that should be it. He moves on. I am like that to a point but not with A topic. That I just keep going over and over inspecting every detail in my head again and need the answers even if they are repeating for the 10th time.

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