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Clueless people make me so mad!

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DragnHeart posted 3/6/2018 08:51 AM

Was on the phone with someone when she asked me to hold on while she texted someone.....She tells me this guy friend of hers is going through a separation because his wife thinks he's cheating. She tells me that his wife is a "real winner".

Well fuck .....How the hell would she know when all she does is talk to the husband...She's ONLy getting one side of the story AND she believes he "needs support" though this tough time.

fuck again!!!

I want to scream at her! No he doesn't need her support He needs to stop talking to other woman and address the issue his wife has...Which is him talking to other woman.

I tried to explain it from the wife's point of view seeing as I AM a wife of a WH but dammit she defended this guy friend....It's like talking to a fucking wall.

Why are people so fucking clueless? Why? I wonder if she would be totally Ok with me messaging HER husband non stop...Probably not.

Its no wonder I can't stand people anymore. It seems everyone I come face to face with have no boundaries, morals or just plain common sense.

Vent over....

OneLittleVictory posted 3/6/2018 09:00 AM

In fairness, some spouses are irrationally jealous and insecure. I endured years of accusations and poor treatment from my wife, even though I was never unfaithful to her - accusations of looking at women, flirting with them, or accepting their flirtations, or having fantasies, or what have you.

But in the end, she was the one who cheated, not me.

Is it possible that this guy's wife has insecurity or abandonment issues?

Bobbi_sue posted 3/6/2018 09:08 AM

OneLittleVictory,

None of us have very much of this story, but I feel it is very rare for "insecurities and false accusations" to lead to separation and divorce unless there is also KNOWN cheating, either by the "insecure" one as in your case (I don't know if you are divorced but still using a case of the accuser being the one cheating) OR there was actually cheating by the one who claims to "need support" while he goes through his hard time (divorce).

deephurt posted 3/6/2018 09:16 AM

Agreed, Dragonheart.

So many people don't see past the end of their own nose. The only thing that seems to be important to this woman is her relationship to this man.

She sounds a little to invested in this guy. I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up having an A with him while trying to "be there" for him.

Of course, my judgement of people has been tarnished greatly after this experience.

Maybe you should ask her how she would like it if you spent all day talking to her husband.

DragnHeart posted 3/6/2018 09:16 AM

I can't speak to this husband and wife as I dont know them.

I guess it's possible...

That said with all that my "friend" tells me I do believe the husband is talking to much to her IMO. Why is he spilling all of the details of his marriage problems with My friend instead of talking to his wife?

I don't think it's my friend's place to interfere with their marriage or insist he NEEDS her support. Frankly from what I know of my friend she has already upset her own husband by talking to other guys. If I was this other wife I'd be upset my husband was talking to her.

As it stands I'm already pissed off MY WH has text her then deleted the texts....He's in the dog house for pulling that crap again. That doesn't make me insecure.

Its a boundary I set in place as a requirement.of R. No talking, calling texting other woman and HIDING it. For all we know that other married couple has the same boundaries that the husband is now breaking.

My problem.is that this friend is taking her role as KISA. She has to save this guy friend from.his horrible wife....

OneLittleVictory posted 3/6/2018 09:20 AM

Bobbi Sue, I agree that we don't have enough information on this story. It seemed like the OP was making a lot of assumptions and projections. And I say this as a betrayed spouse. You're never going to get me to believe that the mere presence of text messages on one's phone from a member of the opposite sex, or merely talking to a member of the opposite sex, is in and of itself evidence of cheating. It really depends on the content. We don't live in Saudi Arabia. We don't have to live our lives behind veils and in shame.

False accusations may not be as rare as you might think. In my case, I strongly suspect that my wife has borderline personality disorder and the irrational fear of abandonment that comes with it. Some people may use jealousy as a tool of manipulation, acting out when they don't really feel it in their hearts but just want to control their partners. This is emotionally abusive. But it can happen.

I was just pointing out to the OP that there could be another side to the story.

DragnHeart posted 3/6/2018 09:26 AM

I guess I'm just not sure how to handle the friend. I am frustrated with her and came damn close to yelling at her to leave the guy alone this morning.

See I was already royally pissed off at WH. He doesn't realize I was awake at 3am this morning chasing away Coyotes from the chicken coup. Being awake I saw an FB messenger notification on his phone (it blinks). A message from an old gf replying to a message he had sent but then deleted. Only her message was in the thread. So he messages her last night, deletes it and sometime after we went to bed she replied.

This morning he read the message, maybe replied but again deleted the thread. So if I hadn't have seen her reply this morning I never would have known they were messaging.

I explained that to my friend. I don't care if he talks to woman. I care that he is DELETING it and hiding it from me. I told her that maybe this guy is doing the same thing and ya as a wife I'd be pissed off.

She said "but the wife talks to other guys too,. Its not fair that her husband can't talk to woman".

Ugh....If he knows shes talking to guy friends that's one thing. If she was hiding it then sure he can be upset. Otherwise he needs to focus on his marriage and not talking to my friend.

DragnHeart posted 3/6/2018 09:33 AM

OneLittleVictory

As I said I don't have the information or know that married couple to know for sure what's going on.

What I DO know is that My friend has already upset her husband by talking to other guys. One of those guys she would call text and sneak off with to "Talk"... Everyone who knows her and the other guy knew something was going on. We all told her husband and told her to stop but she felt that just talking to another guy was ok. How Many EA's have started with just talking? How many PA started first as talking then into an EA?

Its NOT ok when the time and effort being given is to someone other than your spouse. Period.

My "friend" seems to believe that it's Ok for the husband to trash talk his wife just because the wife doesn't want him talking to other woman. If a guy friend of mine trash talked about his wife for her concern about how much he is talking to Me or other woman I'd be up one side of him and down the other.

But like another poster said my view is now tarnished thanks to my WH many Affairs.


OneLittleVictory posted 3/6/2018 09:36 AM

She said "but the wife talks to other guys too..."

Double standards were a big part of our marriage before my wife's affair. My wife could look at, talk to, and be friends with whichever guys she wanted. She could flirt and accept flirtation as much as she wanted. Meanwhile, I was not allowed to have female friends under any circumstances and if she thought I even glimpsed a woman for a millisecond in the grocery store my whole day and possibly week would be ruined with her emotional and sometimes physical abuse.

DragnHeart posted 3/6/2018 09:50 AM

OneLittleVictory

I'm sorry that happened to you.

I don't believe it's ok for one but not the other. I know telling my WH never to speak to another woman is kinda out there. All I ask is that he doesn't hide it from.me.

But once again he has/is. That's Not ok.

I wish I knew this couple that my friend is telling me about. I think I'd be better able to judge what's happening or just come out and ask them.

That's something that has changed. I see through the bullshit and am not afraid to ask or tell what I think.

This morning I was trying to be calm with my friend but my patience is growing short with her after the crap she pulled on her own husband.

Edited cause my phone is inserting words for me that don't belong ...

[This message edited by DragnHeart at 9:52 AM, March 6th (Tuesday)]

OneLittleVictory posted 3/6/2018 09:52 AM

DragonHeart, I agree with you that what your husband is doing is not ok.

sunwillshine posted 3/6/2018 09:55 AM

Why is he spilling all of the details of his marriage problems with My friend instead of talking to his wife?

This to me is the problem. When anyone takes the problems in their marriage to members of the opposite sex, they are,seeking attention or ego kibbles, not real help. If real help is what he was after, he would not be telling a female "friend" about his wife. Sounds exactly like what cheaters say to hook their next ow.
While, of course, none of us know the real story here. The op is upset because her "gut" is telling her something about what's going on and the situation is all too familiar to a lot of us.
It's too bad the the women could not hear the advice from dragonheart. At least if she could she, might keep herself out of the ow role. It sounds like she wants to be the ow. Obviously, lots of women do. We can't change other people and cheating has been going on since the dawn of time.
My boundary for my fwh is any communication with females friends is done with a copy to me. Mostly, no female friends. Not because I'm insecure. Because he had plenty of female friends while he was cheating. Turns out in everyone of those "friendships" there was inappropriate conversations and most of them became the ow.
My personal boundaries, I have no desire to have private conversations with males and of the males I consider my friends, if any of them started complaining about their relationship, I would tell them to take that to their wife. It's just not my place to help them in that area.
I don't think that people accidentally become ow/om when the "friend" starts confiding m problems. That is a bug red flag.

Hurtbeyondtime posted 3/6/2018 10:02 AM

Iím sorry I donít understand these behaviors. Maybe because I was exposed to what cheating did in my family but I cannot stand people with poor boundaries.
I noticed that most people are extremely selfish I think more than before. Iím not sure if itís social media that allows people to behave certain was but Really... where is everyoneís morals.. and then they start bringing god or Christ and I just want to laugh at them. Iím not religious and I have more moral fiber than pretty much most of my ďChristianĒ friends. Sorry I donít mean to generalize but it just gets me. I mean my mother goes to mass and is constantly praying talking to me about god.. and I look at her like really do you want me to really start? It didnít stop her from behaving poorly. Just saying.
But Yeah I completely get it.

DragnHeart posted 3/6/2018 10:04 AM

I have plenty of male acquaintances. Some.men I can call friend but.most I don't.

I never have kept any of them secret from. WH and other than investigative information WH has been free to read all conversations I have with anyone/everyone.

I expect the same from him. No secrets.

That also applies to his male friends too. I don't want secrets.

My issue is just how to deal with my friend without tearing her a new one because I'm already upset. I could wash my hands of it all. Tell her not to talk to me about this guy friend. Or I could continue to try to get her to see the light not that I think she will.

I'm just pissed off at WH and her and wish this shit didn't happen.

DragnHeart posted 3/6/2018 10:23 AM

While I mostly feel like yelling at her I also feel like she's looking to be an OW and that if there was something I could do to help her avoid that it's something I should do.

The not my monkeys not my circus thing comes to.mind but I feel sorta obligated to steer her off the course she's on. She's not only going to destroy her marriage but is well on her way helping to destroy others.

moralhighground posted 3/6/2018 10:39 AM

I understand how difficult it is to explain this to someone who hasnít been through it.

OLV I think itís actually very common for someone with bad boundaries to be jealous and make false accusations. Usually thatís because she doesnít want you engaging in the same types of conversations that she is involved in.

I think there was only ever one time that I found another womanís behaviour around my husband to be an indication of extremely bad boundaries and he made fun of me for YEARS over pointing this out. She was about twice our age and they worked together one or two summers. She was a single mother with a child who had, I think a learning disability, and she got very excited about this work trip they had to take once a year to the middle of nowhere, boat-access communities you canít drive to. She wanted to add an extra day or two to the trip, go fishing, work on her tan, etc etc, and I was very put out hearing about all this. He kept pointing out that she was his momís age, trying to downplay that she was asking him to go on vacation with her. He never accepted that there was any danger. Iím sure he would have had exactly this reaction if I had known about the boundary-crossing AP was doing pre-A, too.

I had this story I used to always tell about my crazy sister in law and her H. He got very jealous when she was away at a religious school because there was a co-ed rec area where everyone would hang out in the evenings. My MIL told me that he told her she had to quit school or they would break up. She quit, came home, and married him, and never ever had a male friend again. For years I couldnít understand this, how could he be so totally insane? Since the A I have been wondering, hm. Maybe she actually DID cheat on him. It would certainly explain all the rules they have been living by since that day.

I donít think thereís a problem with having opposite sex friends. At all. I think the problem is with talking more about your marriage/dreams/sex life to that person than you do to your own spouse. DragnHeart, regardless of the outcome I do think your friendís friend has already crossed the line, and from the sounds of it, with more than one woman. It may be that his wife doesnít have the words to explain exactly which part of this is a problem?

Either way it sucks. I have a friend whose exgf was always jealous of me. I tried to crank up the transparency, but it was difficult since she really hated me a lot and resisted any attempts at friendship (also Iím not bold, so I withered pretty fast when she rejected these attempts). Eventually she cheated on him and broke it off. She also met him by cheating on someone else with him. So yeah, I definitely think waywards in general are more prone to jealousy and suspicion.

little turtle posted 3/6/2018 10:44 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if this guy's wife is mad at your friend for talking to her husband. Who knows if he is being truthful with his wife about your friend? And what kind of relationship they really have.... it sounds like it could be an EA. Which makes your friend the OW in their marriage. Since she feels he "needs" her, I doubt anything you say to her in attempt to get her out of the middle will be taken well. You might have to take a break from this friendship.

In my own story, XH complained to OW about how I'm crazy and she blamed it on the fact that I was pregnant and probably hormonal (even though she hasn't had any kids of her own). Current husband said I was no were near crazy during my last pregnancy! People make up stories to justify their poor choices.

DragnHeart posted 3/6/2018 10:56 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if this guy's wife is mad at your friend for talking to her husband. Who knows if he is being truthful with his wife about your friend? And what kind of relationship they really have.... it sounds like it could be an EA. Which makes your friend the OW in their marriage.


I agree. When she first told me about this guy and his wife being upset with him I thought it was because he was talking to my friend.

Since she feels he "needs" her, I doubt anything you say to her in attempt to get her out of the middle will be taken well. You might have to take a break from this friendship.

I know. ND this makes me sad. As upset at her as I am I'm also sad that one of the few people.i know IRL is a person with all the characteristics I don't want in a friend...

PeaceLily210 posted 3/6/2018 11:23 AM

When anyone takes the problems in their marriage to members of the opposite sex, they are,seeking attention or ego kibbles, not real help.

BINGO!!
Sunwillshine nailed it right here. He's not looking for help. He's looking for attention.

DragnHeart, I'm so sorry you are facing this with your friend. I have friends with poor boundaries also, and it hurts to see them putting themselves and their marriages in jeopardy. Last year I got into it with a dear friend of mine because one of her former students, (who was now 19 years old and an employee at the same place she worked) got drunk one night and sent her a VERY inappropriate picture of himself. He then went on to pretend he didn't mean to send it to her, but then asked if she liked it. No matter how much I tried to convince her of the appropriate way to handle this, she continued to text with him. She told me it was ok because she "Scolded" him by telling him she was old enough to be his mother. His response to that was flirtatious, but she said she felt she made her point. No matter what I said to her she refused to "get him in trouble for one mistake" or to tell her own husband. We argued about it several times. I finally realized that she simply did not want to do the right thing. I got the impression she was enjoying the idea of a young man flirting with her 50+ year old self. She couldn't see that just letting him have her # was crossing boundaries. She feels that she needs to be available to the youth in her community so that she can offer them help when they need it. You can do the same thing I did, but remember that you can't control how they view things, when they WANT to view them a certain way.

Maybe recommend "Not Just Friends" to her?? Do your best, but be willing to let go if you can't get through. She's a grown woman.

Bobbi_sue posted 3/6/2018 11:24 AM

You're never going to get me to believe that the mere presence of text messages on one's phone from a member of the opposite sex, or merely talking to a member of the opposite sex, is in and of itself evidence of cheating.
I totally agree with this ^^^.

The issue that I have with what is posted is SOMETHING has brought about a separation. You are never going to get ME to believe this happened because she saw a seemingly innocent text to someone of the opposite sex. If it has gone to the level or separation, there is either prior or current cheating by one or the other of the partners (possibly the accuser herself, but also possibly the MM. If she is making such a big deal about his texts, he may have cheated before and if that is the case, I don't blame her.

But if she is completely falsely accusing him (which is of course possible) I doubt HE is the one pursuing a D even with the false accusations. I think there is a LOT more going on than we could possibly know or make any judgements about.

this guy friend of hers is going through a separation because his wife thinks he's cheating.
I'm just saying no I don't think this is that simple...that they are separating "because she thinks he is cheating."

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