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Do not waste anymore time...

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josiep posted 4/4/2018 16:14 PM

Well, I just want you all to know that I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.

And that was a joke..............

But it made a couple of you smile, didn't it? Well, you know what they say, you can take the girl out of Jersey but you can't take the Jersey out of the girl.

DragnHeart posted 4/4/2018 16:49 PM

I meant to quote and messed that up. Page 13 near the end someone said she was cheated on twice by two H and the outcomes were different.

I'm in that boat too.

Engaged in early twenties. Caught him cheating. Ended engagement and kicked him out same day.

Current husband has cheated more times than I can count and here we are working on R.

Funny how life plays out...

(Note that ex fiance came back a few.months later wanting to R and trying to guilt.me with the it's a shame we didn't work it out because we both wanted kids).

I'm all for venting. My only concern is projecting one's own pain and decisions onto everyone else. We are all hurting. We all need support. I pray that I can do that much from a distance.

sisoon posted 4/4/2018 17:39 PM

Thanks for that information. Maybe I should just start a thread for advice about what's worked best for helping the BSs leave their WS and start a new life on their own.

A venting thread is about expressing anger in a straight way - 'I'm furious at my WS who just did ...!'

This is not a venting thread. It's a direct attack on the possibility of R. My bet is that skins21 is angry, but he does not say so directly. Venting is not indirect....

********************
** posting as a member **

Skins, what kept you from leaving your W immediately?

That info might help others. Telling people 'Do not waste anymore time...on cheaters' does not.

***********************************

** Posting as a member **

Getting out of infidelity?

I'm not sure I understand what is meant by that, probably because I don't spend a lot of time in JFO, and I missed the development of the concept.

I took - and continue to take - it to mean things like:

Ending as quickly as possible thinking that I caused my W's A,
Stopping the 'woe is me, I've been betrayed...',
Ending the obsession over what my W may be thinking and doing,
Ending feeling sorry for myself....

I took - and continue to take - it to mean things like:

Figuring out what I want
Testing my W to see if she's a good candidate for R, if I want R
Taking care of my physical and emotional needs - food, water, sleep (ha!),
Accepting my feelings of grief, anger, fear, and shame and processing them out of my body
Finding a good IC, if I want help
Identifying requirements for R, if R is a possibility
Seeing a good lawyer to identify my options, rights, responsibilities....

To me, in summary, 'getting out of infidelity' means making mindful choices about how each of us is going to respond to his WS's A.

Is that a decent understanding of the concept of 'getting out of infidelity'?

Or does it mean choosing D on d-day and sticking to that decision?

[This message edited by sisoon at 5:39 PM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

Hephaestus2 posted 4/4/2018 19:10 PM

Skins21 needs no defense - his point of view seems legitimate enough. However, there are plenty of good reasons to reject his recommendation not to waste time on cheaters.

There is some value in attempting to remain cheerful and optimistic even in the face of the most excruciating tragedy.

Some people do recover from an affair and rebuild their marriages. They may be rare. They may be exceptional but they exist as surely as albino aligators.

Most therapists will tell you that you can have a better marriage after recovering from a partner's affair. The promise of a "better marriage after an extramarital affair" is a staple of self-help books about affairs.

Divorce is no panacea. Divorce is ugly and hard and painful. Divorce involves many losses large and small. Your children lose. What could be worse than losing your family? You lose the person that you love (or that you once loved) and everyone loses the shared memories, the shared routines.

After an affair, there may be no good options left to you.

There are also lots of good reasons to accept Skins21 conclusion, at least in principle.

The exception proves the rule. A small minority of people may rebuild and go on to have happy marriages after an affair but for most of us, the writing is on the wall. The end is nigh.

Be realistic. Was it really a mistake, a drunken one night stand? Or was it carefully planned and executed over months or years?

Unfaithful spouses can keep you hanging on for years with vague promises of a return to the way things were.

No need to prolong the agony. Just slip out the back Jack, make a new plan Stan. Hop on the bus Gus. No need to discuss much. Just drop off the key Lee and set yourself free.

SisterMilkshake posted 4/4/2018 19:15 PM

A small minority of people may rebuild and go on to have happy marriages after an affair but for most of us, the writing is on the wall.
Source please for your "small minority"? There are no hard statistics or data on this. Just people like you making assertions that have no basis at all. Except what you may think or feel.

josiep posted 4/4/2018 19:31 PM

A small minority of people may rebuild and go on to have happy marriages after an affair but for most of us, the writing is on the wall.

Source please for your "small minority"? There are no hard statistics or data on this. Just people like you making assertions that have no basis at all. Except what you may think or feel.

Touche.

If I ever meet anyone who has reconciled from infidelity and gone on to have a happy marriage (other than the 34 years I had after DD#1), I will make note of it.

But if I'd been keeping a ledger for the last 50 years of friends, relatives and neighbors who've dealt with infidelity, not a one would yet be in the "rebuild and have a happy marriage" category.

So, in my particular experience, it would be about 100 to 0 so far.

It's gonna take quite a few of the happy endings to tilt the scales from small minority to minority. That's if it ever even gets to small minority.

Gotta ask - when doing the data analysis, is someone who committed adultery and reconciled 3 times count as 3 R's? Say, for instance, Mr. X married Ms. A and had an affair; he was faithful for the next 7 yrs. and then did it again and was then faithful again for the next 7 years. Does that 14 yrs. of marriage count as happy marriage? Because it might have appeared that the BS was happy enough to R but one could assume that Mr. X wasn't happy enough since he went out and did it again.

I'm rambling. Sorry. Over and out.

SisterMilkshake posted 4/4/2018 20:26 PM

There are many here on SI, josie. But, if you are talking about personally meeting some couples that have faced infidelity and reconciled happily, I would wager that you probably have met some. You see, many people don't broadcast about infidelity in their marriage.

No one, except for the "players" in my personal soap opera, know about my FWH's infidelity. Not family, not friends. Many people choose to keep it quiet. So, you wouldn't know if you have met a happily reconciled couple or not.

eta: fix spelling

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 8:27 PM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

Western posted 4/4/2018 20:37 PM

I disagree Sister, I have met none.

I have met a few who are reconciled and they are miserable as shit.

The rest who dumped their cheating spouses are actually quite happy

Rideitout posted 4/4/2018 20:37 PM

I'd say my M is happy. It's terribly scarred from the A, and it was a hell of a lot happier before. But I'm not unhappy, I'm just hurt and sad a lot more than I used to be. I thought I hit the lottery with my WW; yes, we had sexual issues, but I was still over the moon for her, and I decided I could live with less sex to have her.

Today, the equation has changed, but it still doesn't result in a negative number. I might leave her, and I might do that because of the A, but R hasn't been all bad for me, in fact, it's been more good than bad, or I would have left already.

I think the fundamental question we all need to ask, if you met this person tomorrow, would you marry them? If the answer is no, then don't put yourself though the R process. If the answer is yes, and the WS wants to R and you think they are capable of doing the work and being a safe partner again, then, IMHO, it's worth a shot. Just make sure you don't wind up in the "old marriage". You need to build something new with them that better meets both of your needs; if you can't do that, it's always going to be "crappy" compared to what you had before the A.

metoohurt posted 4/4/2018 20:48 PM

Do people really know so much about couples that you know whether one has cheated or not. Is this more small town talk?

I can tell you that I don't know anything about the couple friends we have. I am sure they have their issues. Who knows. I don't pry that much and people certainly don't try to air out their dirty laundry in public.

sassylee posted 4/4/2018 20:58 PM

Those of you who havent ever met a happily reconciled couple should try to make it to a g2g in your area. From what Iíve read, theres usually one of our Ríed couples there...

josiep posted 4/5/2018 01:33 AM

I stand corrected. Just because I know an overwhelming number of couples who have dealt with infidelity doesn't mean they're being truthful with me. I can live with that.

And so I will also admit that I have no basis for believing that happily reconciled couples are a small minority.

I'm sorry I shared my experience and my thoughts on the subject.

reallyscrewedup7 posted 4/5/2018 06:05 AM

Josiep,

I thank you for sharing your stories and you have NOTHING to apologize for. Please don't take the lashing out from some people personally, even though it sure seems personal.

When I find myself on the end of attacks on this board, I realize I have hit a nerve. Something in my post triggers their need to defend their position in harsh terms.

I realize I do it too.

I hope you find peace and healing.

And you never have to apologize for your story.

HFSSC posted 4/5/2018 06:07 AM

I think the point being made is not that your friends and acquaintances have lied to you about their marriages and R. I think the point is that lots of people never disclose to others when they are struggling. So it's very likely that you know some happily R'ed couples but don't realize it because you aren't privy to their private history. You just think of them as "happily married".


SI Staff posted 4/5/2018 06:16 AM

WARNING

For the last time, stop with the generalizations and personal attacks. If you don't like that someone is trying to Divorce, move along and let them follow their path. If you don't like that someone is trying to Reconcile, move along and let them follow their path.

Bigger posted 4/5/2018 06:18 AM

I have met a few who are reconciled and they are miserable as shit.

No Western. If you have met a few couples that are as miserable as shit post-infidelity then they are not reconciled.
Itís like insisting you had a beer with a self-proclaimed recovered alcoholicÖ

The very word ďreconciledĒ indicates that people have found a common ground they can be happy with. If you know of a couple that are miserable as shit then they havenít gotten out of infidelity. They have neither reconciled nor divorced. They have accepted a miserable limbo.

Iím totally happy with either choice Ė R or D. What I donít like is limbo.
I think many posters that maintain R isnít attainable donít realize what the concept means. I think that in probably 9 out of 10 cases the easy-way out is divorce. I have seen several studies that indicate that most divorced people are happy with their decision 24-36 months post-divorce. At the same time, the consensus here on SI is that it takes 2 years to reach a point where you can evaluate if your reconciliation can be successful. Thatís 2 years of IC, MC and all sorts of challenging work. And unlike a divorce where you can outsource the crappy jobs to your attorney then in R itís all yours. The MC is at best a foreman that controls what you do and when.

[This message edited by Bigger at 6:19 AM, April 5th (Thursday)]

sisoon posted 4/5/2018 09:18 AM

After an affair, there may be no good options left to you.

Now THAT is a generalization I can live with. I'd even agree with 'After an affair, there are no good options left to you.'

Some BSes make the best of the lousy situation and thrive - some via R, some via D. Some do, in fact, make their lives better than before they were betrayed - again, some via R, some via D.

Zugzwang posted 4/5/2018 09:31 AM

If you have met a few couples that are as miserable as shit post-infidelity then they are not reconciled.

Yep. They aren't R with themselves, since obviously they choose to stay in an unhappy marriage. If they haven't R themselves, then the marriage can't be R either. Hence, why the situation (state of the marriage or life traumas) are never the excuse to cheat. It is the person and only them. How they cope with traumas. If they choose to stay when they are unhappy or being abused. IMO any time a wayward leads with their situation as their reason why they cheated instead of the I was"I was a broken/hurting/self absorbed person that didn't have the ability to not do x,y,z. or I was just a selfish ass." sends red flags to me if they truly have "owned it". If people don't meet your needs/wants..then you leave or re-evaluate if the needs/wants are realistic or can be amended.

Hephaestus2 posted 4/5/2018 10:42 AM

SisterMilkshake wrote >>Source please for your "small minority"? There are no hard statistics or data on this. Just people like you making assertions that have no basis at all. Except what you may think or feel.<<

That's true - there is probably little (if any) hard evidence of the proportion of married couples who recover from an affair. There may be no formal studies of the proportion of couples who "recover and rebuild".

However there is a mountain of anecdotal evidence. For example,

1) you could listen to the stories that people have told each other about extramarital affairs for the past, say, two or three thousand years
2) you could ask a family law attorney what percentage of her clients who divorce had an infidelity in the marriage
3) you could ask a marriage and family therapist about her "success rate" in counseling couples who are dealing with infidelity
4) you could ask anyone who has followed a group of posters for a couple of years or so on an infidelity discussion board like this one

If you were lucky enough to get honest, straightforward answers, you would very quickly realize that the odds of happy marriage following an affair are drastically diminished. Of course, that is not to say that someone shouldn't attempt it but they would probably benefit from understanding their odds of success.

The hell of it is that infidelity destroys marriages in large numbers. You don't need a survey sample of two or three thousand subjects (and a teeny tiny standard error) to know that's just how it works.

Alternatively, you could believe that the reason that we so rarely hear about couples who "recover and rebuild" after an affair is because people are reluctant to talk about their own experience with extramarital affairs. Whatever floats your boat.

DragnHeart posted 4/5/2018 10:55 AM

Skins? Are you still here?

What is it you want most right now and what are you doing to achieve that? How are you handling the anger and frustration it seems you are feeling? Are you eating and sleeping alright? Do you work out? Are you in IC? Do you have an outlet for yourself IRL?

Do I feel like I've wasted time trying to R?

No.

I HAVE wasted time, way to much time, playing PI. Spending more hours than I can count going over VAR recordings and searching through emails and phone records. Fact is I had all the evidence I needed right back to OW1. I didn't need more.

What I should have done was set clear boundaries and requirements for R right from the start. I didn't do that (found SI after my dday). I also didn't take care of myself.

Its taken a long time.to get where we are now and no it's not perfect but marriage rarely ever is. Its a process. And one I am willing to work through. If you are not that's ok. Just regardless of what you do please take care of yourself.


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