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Do they ever change?

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OZARK88 posted 3/29/2018 15:36 PM

Itís been a long time since I posted (in just found out forum) but feeling the need to get it out on here again.

Long story short - my wife of 11 years (partner of 20) had a three year affair with a co-worker (we all work for the same company but I work in a different location to them). A real horror show nonetheless. DDay was last September. Iíd suspected for a long time - phone addiction - and discovered love letters from him in her bedside drawer, sex toys etc, pregnancy test kits and cocaine all over the house.

Her immediate and only concern was for her professional reputation - screaming at me on the phone when colleagues found out. Er, donít have an affair with a co-worker then? I filed for divorce in November following six weeks of gas-lighting, projecting, TT, false remorse and all the usual BS. Her mask slipped pretty quickly and it became obvious she was playing me whilst hoping to skip off into the sunset with AP and his three kids (one of which was conceived during the affair).

We have been living in-house separation with our young son which has been very difficult. She is nothing but an actress. Her reputation and how other people see her is all she cares about and she is a compulsive liar. BPD or Narc for sure.

She has been shifting money to her father for months and lied on her legal forms about her assets. Basically trying to completely screw me financially.

Two things happened today. AP left the company (and back with his wife - I feel for this woman as she doesnít know half of what went on in the affair and doesnít want to hear it). Also today my attorney has called out WW on undisclosed assets, pensions etc. So the penny seems to have dropped that itís going to cost her. Not a good day for her overall.

What I still canít reconcile is how someone youíve been so close to for twenty years can screw you over again and again and continue to try and screw you over and over. And lie and lie and lie and blameshift and project and gas-light and lie and lie again.

At what point do they stop being such awful human beings? Do they ever take responsibility or do they stay in la la land forever?

Apey83 posted 3/29/2018 15:43 PM

They don't stop being aweful. I know first hand. They are disordered fucktards. They are people who were never really truly that invested, only in it for themselves, living in each moment. Instant gratification. Known my ex-hubby for 20 years too. Too much cheating and not any real remorse. You are best to get her out of the house so you can do some real healing and get away from the disordered.

Broken332 posted 3/29/2018 16:10 PM

I'm beginning to think people don't really change. They just find other broken people to take advantage of. It takes A LOT of work to try and change bad behavior that seems to be so deeply ingrained in someone. Even if you leave and they appear to continue on with a "happy" life.... It's an empty life.

Marz posted 3/29/2018 16:30 PM

If you reflect back she may not have ever been who you wanted to believe she was.

This happens a lot.

You may have been projecting your feelings onto her. Obviously she doesn't have those feelings for you.

Love can be blinding sometimes.

Lawyerman posted 3/29/2018 16:41 PM

I don't think they change. They may make an act of changing but no. Inside they remain the same.

Nycountrystrong posted 3/29/2018 17:34 PM

Unfortunately it takes a lot of work for someone to change who they are at their core. Someone truly has to WANT to change to put in the hard work required to change. If someone is unremorseful for their actions I would say its highly unlikely they ever will.


Unfortunately I think our waywards only show us who they truly are, and more than likely always were, than suddenly change into the person who destroyed our trust.

I was with my XW for 23 years. Towards the end, I realized just how different she was from who I believed her to be all those years. My blind trust in her made me just that, blind.

Who she was at the end, is who she was all along. I allowed my beliefs and morals to project onto her.

One of the biggest lessons I learned was that when someone shows who they are through their actions, believe them. Don't be fooled by their words or lies.. it's their actions that show who they were all along, and more than likely always will be.

Marz posted 3/29/2018 17:37 PM

Who she was at the end, is who she was all along. I allowed my beliefs and morals to project onto her.

One of the biggest lessons I learned was that when someone shows who they are through their actions, believe them. Don't be fooled by their words or lies.. it's their actions that show who they were all along, and more than likely always will be.

Wise words from one who's been there.

Pay heed to them

12and20years posted 3/29/2018 22:00 PM

As much as it sucks itís good to know that mine isnít the only totally messed up spouse!!!

WhoTheBleep posted 3/30/2018 06:54 AM

Nope, they don't change. My WH thinks he is...but his mask keeps slipping. Dang, don't you hate when that happens?

SuperDaddy1027 posted 3/30/2018 06:57 AM

One of the biggest lessons I learned was that when someone shows who they are through their actions, believe them. Don't be fooled by their words or lies.. it's their actions that show who they were all along, and more than likely always will be.

Such valuable information in NYís post. I always thought my XWW was the most unselfish person I ever met. Now having stepped back and out of the marriage I realize I was blind and was pretending who she really was. She was always selfish but I just refused to believe it. Her actions of cheating completely pulled the blinders off of me. I thought she changed into this person who I didnít know. I realize now she was always like this I just refused to see her for who she really was. t was the hardest and most eye opening experience of my life!

[This message edited by SuperDaddy1027 at 6:58 AM, March 30th (Friday)]

patientlywaiting posted 3/30/2018 07:59 AM

OZARK88,

I've thought a lot about this and I don't think they ever change if they continue with infidelity as the core of their relationships. Change is uncomfortable and the attention and adrenaline they get from these relationships is real to them. To change takes true courage, something waywards generally lack.....

EvenKeel posted 3/30/2018 08:05 AM

What I still canít reconcile is how someone youíve been so close to for twenty years can screw you over again and again and continue to try and screw you over and over.
Let me tell you what my minister told me. See, he knew my ex in HS (when I did not know him). He said when he saw ex with me, he really thought he must of finally grew up and changed. Minister said I really do believe your ex was trying...but you can only keep up that mask so long. He said he could see it slipping away and what it revealed was my ex that my minister knew LONG ago.

See that person was there all along. He tried to be a better person but just could not pull it off for the long haul.

So maybe the person you knew for 20 yrs, was not really the core person at all? Just a thought.

At what point do they stop being such awful human beings?
I have been D for 8 yrs and I see no signs of that

Minnesota posted 3/30/2018 10:38 AM

At what point do they stop being such awful human beings? Do they ever take responsibility or do they stay in la la land forever?

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. But it doesn't matter. Your healing is not dependent on what they do or don't do. You can't wait for her to suddenly come to her senses and give you that apology we all hope will some day come. What matters is that YOU have to heal and move on regardless of what she does or doesn't do.

It doesn't matter if they change. What matters is if YOU change.

tesla posted 3/30/2018 19:36 PM

People with extreme personality disorders - boderline pd, narc pd, anti-social pd (sociopathy) do not change...they double down. Or they find new people to use and build themselves up.

Let go of that question and focus on getting divorced and emotionally detaching.

MadOldBat posted 3/31/2018 07:20 AM

Nope, they don't change. My WH thinks he is...but his mask keeps slipping. Dang, don't you hate when that happens?

Mine too Bleep, and yes I hate it.

6M$Man posted 3/31/2018 12:36 PM

I'm a pessimist and a cynic, but I've never seen a person change. I tend to think that the personality a person has in their early teen years is the personality they will always have.

Some people just get better about wearing masks to hide their personality for months or years.

realitybites posted 3/31/2018 13:03 PM

I don't think they ever change if they continue with infidelity as the core of their relationships. Change is uncomfortable and the attention and adrenaline they get from these relationships is real to them. To change takes true courage, something waywards generally lack.....

I believe I always knew my WS liked attention. His profession requires it quite frankly. My mistake or the part that I do believe he worked hard to hide from me, but also on my end that I probably swept under the rug or was in denial....was how BADLY he wanted the attention. How BADLY he wants to look like a KISA to others.

Now when you mix this with what his REAL home life was, meaning he had a wife at home that took care of everything, in fact he manipulated things to make sure I DID take care of everything, so that his life would look like it was running smoothly and to the outside world he looked like this great Dad and husband. So in reality he compartmentalized the 2 lives and he started to believe his own hype, the life I was propping up at home for him, that he had it all together.

Then you get the AP, who is of course only listening to their side of the story, and they think, WOW-this guy is great, his/her spouse at home must be a horrible person not to see how fabulous and wonderful the WS is... and so the spin happens. In the WS head. They start to believe all of their lies.

So to even hope for change for a WS you have got to have one who even thinks they should change. And then is going to IC for a long period of time to figure out why they are the way they are.

So I don't want to say that they can't change, but if they are so fully enmeshed into the false narrative they are telling themselves and also need that attention and ego boost that they crave and have been that way their whole lives? Then I just don't know if they can change.

[This message edited by realitybites at 1:10 PM, March 31st (Saturday)]

realitybites posted 3/31/2018 13:08 PM

Some people just get better about wearing masks to hide their personality for months or years.

And this ^^^^^ I do agree with as well.

Lawyerman posted 3/31/2018 13:18 PM

My WW deals with it by not talking to men. She blames that on me. I never said she couldn't talk to men. I talk to women all the time and don't ever end up cheating on my wife. Problem is that she doesn't trust herself. It's clear to me now.

She says that 'part of her' has gone but how does that happen? Next time she needs immediate affection and I'm not around?

Sure, the lies and years of doubt and mis-trust have truly trashed our relationship but the restraints she has put on herself are because she knows what she is like at heart and she so desperately doesn't want to be.

Whatever. I'm gone. Save it for the next guy.

keptmyword posted 3/31/2018 15:05 PM

The type of person your STBXWW is (just like my XWW) doesnít ever really change inwardly.

They only change the excuses for what they do and who or what they can blame it on.

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