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I Can Relate
User Topic: WS Questions for BS's
SI Staff
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Member # 10
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

This is for WS's that have specific questions they would like to ask of BS's .

There will be no bashing/snide/snarky remarks by anyone. Doing so will result in the loss of your Profile.

WS please do not answer by proxy for your BS, stick to your situation.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:51 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Prayin4Daylight
Member
Member # 15710
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

>>> tapping foot >>> Eagerly waiting for a question ...

Seriously, as a BS, I have had many kind & thoughtful posts from WS. I would love to return the favor, If I can. Looking forward to many insightful posts here ...

Mods, Am I in trouble for posting this ???


Prayin

Elected Voting Vixen


Posts: 8444 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Upstate New York
CluelessBlonde
Member
Member # 13933
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

P4D, I was going to write almost the exact same thing about tapping my foot!

I'm here too, ready and willing to answer any and all questions that I'm qualified to answer.


If you think you are too small to be effective, you have never been in the dark with a mosquito.

If you eat a live toad first thing in the morning, nothing worse can happen for the rest of the day.


Posts: 24947 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: NYC area
wookiegirl
Member
Member # 16284
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

But I wanted to be first.



"I found out that the things that hurt us the most can become the fuel and the catalyst that propel us toward our destiny. It will either make you bitter or it will make you better."-- T.D. Jakes

Posts: 2118 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: The Magic Mirror
Prayin4Daylight
Member
Member # 15710
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)


Prayin

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Posts: 8444 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Upstate New York
neverendinghurt
Member
Member # 15859
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

I am here and willing to answer any questions.

A bit about my story for relevance.

I discoered the infidelity 2 years ago, 18 months after it ended.
I asked WH for the whole truth, so that I could see what we were facing and if our marriage could be saved.
He spent the next 20 months or so lying, omitting trickle truthing.
Now I am unsure what to do next. I am not sure about R.
but not quite ready to walk away.

if anyone has questions and wants answers from my perspective, ask away.


The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and writes another; and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it is with what he vowed to make it.
James M. Barrie

Posts: 26032 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Seattle
Listeningclosely
Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

OK, so you wonderful and kind BS's don't get bored waiting around, I'll ask you a question.

What is the average velocity of a sparrow?!?!?

Sorry, it just had to be asked. Seriously, I'd like to know if you're worried that you may never be able to meet the needs of your WS. Wells asked me to update my answers to the Emotional Needs Questionnaire (she stands pat on her original ones). I think they've moved quite a bit, but she got nervous because I still answered some differently that she saw herself able to give me.

I've tried to explain to her that she makes me happier than anyone ever could, and that I don't think there is anyone out there who could meet every need 100% of the time. I want her to believe in herself, and that she is the only woman I will ever want or need (of course I blew that with my A).

I also have an issue with the way the survey words their questions. They go from "doesn't meet my needs but I like it when she does" to "meets all of my needs". There's no room for meeting my needs 99-44/100% of the time, and that I am thrilled with that."

Thoughts? Ideas?


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
hill
Member
Member # 12166
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

African or European?

Sorry, couldn't resist either.

I D'd so don't think I can answer the other questions... but am here to try and help!


Posts: 3137 | Registered: Sep 2006
Prayin4Daylight
Member
Member # 15710
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Hi LC,
I know I personally struggled with that initially. Why her? What was wrong with me ?

I have a little different perspective than some others on this though. Let me say that I do not take any responsibility for H's affair. NONE....But I had to understand that I contributed to the breakdown of our marriage. H was screaming his needs long before the A but I chose not to address them.

So, post A, It was something that we worked on together. And ya know, that was the hardest part for me. In a strange way, H making changes was easy but it was harder for me to look at the day to day things that I was doing & needed to change.

But back to your question....
I do NOW believe that I can meet his needs. Not always, not 100% of the time ...But I can and I am trying to keep that part on track .By history, I was the selfish one in the marriage and his needs suffered more than mine.So we will continue to work on this forever, I am sure ....

Sorry so longwinded and I hope this made sense...

PS The 2nd answer is 167 mph..


Prayin

Elected Voting Vixen


Posts: 8444 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Upstate New York
CluelessBlonde
Member
Member # 13933
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Darn it! It looks like I'm not qualified to answer your second question, LC.


If you think you are too small to be effective, you have never been in the dark with a mosquito.

If you eat a live toad first thing in the morning, nothing worse can happen for the rest of the day.


Posts: 24947 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: NYC area
neverendinghurt
Member
Member # 15859
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

No, I don't worry about meeting his needs.

I understand that the infidelity was not about me, or our relationship.

I can see how it could be a worry for some BS's though.

The self doubt that comes with discovery of infidelity is excruciating.

I am lucky in many ways, I "grew" into who I was in my 20's, was helped by some amazing people to do so, and I have never truly lacked self esteem since then.

I think that a WS can help their BS get to a place where they can recover self confidence (or find it if they never had it), but it really has to come from within.


The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and writes another; and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it is with what he vowed to make it.
James M. Barrie

Posts: 26032 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Seattle
hurtingstudent
Member
Member # 17432
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Listening, I worry about that all the time. I worry that in the long run what is great now won't be enough for the long term. I can only accept what he says as the truth and that its enough.


If epilepsy has touched your life, or for more information visit:

for support & info: www.epilepsy.com
for info & research: www.epilepsyfoundation.com
to track seizures: www.trackseizures.com


Posts: 4507 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: indiana
neverendinghurt
Member
Member # 15859
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

What is the average velocity of a sparrow?!?!?

mean, median or mode?


The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and writes another; and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it is with what he vowed to make it.
James M. Barrie

Posts: 26032 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Seattle
SoDisappointed
Member
Member # 19609
Default  Posted: 3:26 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

I truly believe that yes, I could meet all of the needs (emotional and otherwise), most of the time, of my FWH. However, I have to honestly say, that right now, I have zero interest in working towards that and I am not sure that I ever will. Right now I am too interested in my own needs and filling them myself.


DDay-Feb08
Divorced

Oh, my friend, it's not what they take away from you that counts. It's what you do with what you have left. ~Hubert Humphrey


Posts: 565 | Registered: May 2008
canIdothis?
Member
Member # 19281
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

I truly believe that i can meet all of the emotional needs of my WH...the problem is, I don't trust yet that he will ask for what he needs!


D-Day: April 19, 2008
Reconciling, slowly but surely

Posts: 200 | Registered: Apr 2008
strugglingmomi4
Member
Member # 18015
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

[This message edited by kdny at 4:03 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


...Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do... But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength...


Posts: 277 | Registered: Jan 2008
strugglingmomi4
Member
Member # 18015
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Sorry Wrong Forum!!!


...Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do... But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength...


Posts: 277 | Registered: Jan 2008
neverendinghurt
Member
Member # 15859
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Listeningclosely, have you told her how she meets your needs?

I don't the know the questionnaire that you refer to, but I wouldn't rely on it exclusively, it seems as though it has some flaws anyway.

is it not better to actually talk to each other, than to complete these kind of questionnaires?

Have you talked about the areas where you feel or she worries that she may not meet your needs all of the imte.

Is it even possible for one person to meet ALL of our emotional needs all of the time? I know that probably sounds close to dangerous teitory, but I am thiking more of the relationships I had with my parents, that I have with my siblings, and that I have with my two best friends of 40+ years. Ech of those relationships is fulfilling in its own way. Am I making any kind of sense?

An example (and I may be way off on a tangent but I hope not), when my Mum died, and then my Dad, my brothers and I could do for each something that no one else could, that ws share stories and memories of our childhood, at that moment, that was an emotional need that had to be filled/shared, and though WH could and did comfort me and help me through that, my siblings and I needed each other.

[This message edited by neverendinghurt at 3:58 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and writes another; and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it is with what he vowed to make it.
James M. Barrie

Posts: 26032 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Seattle
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

What is the average velocity of a sparrow?!?!?

mean, median or mode?

It is a little more complicated than that. Since you specified velocity, we have to know relative to which coordinate axis as the nature of the universe makes it impossible to specify an absolute velocity. Since you left this information out, I will have to select a coordinate axis that is both universal and a convenient reference.

Choosing a relative coordinate axis centered about an arbitrary photon, the velocity of every swallow, both European and African, once accounting for relativistic effects, will be equal to C, which is apx. 186,000 miles/second or 300,000 km/second assuming that the photon remains in a vacuum.

[This message edited by aesir at 6:09 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Deeply Scared
Administrator
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Red  Posted: 6:44 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Lets please keep this on topic...it's not a joke thread.

There are plenty of those in F&G.

Thank you


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192011 | Registered: May 2002
Listeningclosely
Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Thanks for herding us in DS. And sorry - I didn't mean to start an avalanche.

As for the topic - neverendinghurt, we certainly talk about things. Quite a bit as a matter of fact. The survey isn't viewed in a vacuum by either of us. It just sparked questions for Wells. We talked a little more tonight and part of it comes from different definitions. She sees wants as the full set of things we would like, but needs as the things we have to have. I was viewing needs (does she fulfill all your needs) as all the things I would like, so all was too strong.

In the end by her definition, she exceeds my needs, and even reaches pretty close to hitting all my wants. She is the most amazing woman I have ever known, and will always be the only one I want and need as my best friend, my lover and my wife.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Sorry DS, I was FTD at work and got interupted. Forgot which forum I was reading. Not really used to going into ICR, as I fear the long threads.

Back to your original (serious) question LC. I assume you mean the one from marriage builders. Although I love a lot of the stuff they have there, I never realy liked their questionaires. They may have been usefull for some guidance, things that we would not normally think of and such, but like my answer to the swallow question illustrates (or I am justifying bad behaviour), there are a lot of implicit assumptions involved in them.

Like you, I do not like the wording, in fact I wonder how you could like when someone meets your needs if they do not meet them. Yes I can get hung up on words and their meanings, but words only power is in the meanings we give them.

More importantly, as they acknowledge before the survey, each of us will assign a different importance to each of those needs. Is it even appropriate to expect a spouse to be responsible for meeting all of our needs? The questionaire seems to imply they should for whatever is most important, but what about my responsibility to meet my own needs? What if my needs are unreasonable? I have a need for certain kinds of conversations that I would not dream of inflicting on my wife, and it is my responsibility to meet those needs without harming my marriage. My wife has a need to be creative in many ways, and when she is making her own jewelry, my involvement is limited to admiring her handiwork, and occasionally suggesting a website or tool that she might find a use for. Just as she would be miserable not meeting that need for creativity, I would be miserable if I was expected to sit there linking rings together for a chainmail purse. (Actually I think she would be miserable if I sat there linking rings together for a chainmail purse with her)

Maybe what is more important is how well are those needs being met within the marriage, in a way that is not threatening to the marriage, not how well your spouse meets those needs.

Just like it is silly to think that a swallow really travels at the speed of light, it is also silly to expect your spouse to meet all of your needs. What if one of you dies?

How well are your needs being met in a manner that is healthy for your marriage?

ETA: Note to self, after being idle, refresh page before responding to thread.

[This message edited by aesir at 7:44 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Sandcrab
Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

For a BS which need is more important? Emotional or physical? Does this depend on the person or maybe a gender thing? For me I know it is emotional but I believe for LJ it is physical.


I ♥ LostJim

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Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
kdny
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Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

For me, its emotional.


Whether we remain ash or become phoenix is up to us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes the fine line between a nervous breakdown and knowing things will be okay is a pair of furry pants~unfound

Posts: 81335 | Registered: Dec 2002 | From: Slightly left of center, standing on my head
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

I think it depends on the person, and it probably varies. Whichever need has the greatest deficit is probably the one that will feel most important.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
wannabenormal
Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Sandcrab - I will chime in with emotional too.

Being a girl, I feel like gender does indeed play a part in what need is more important to you.



BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
Sandcrab
Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

What if a BS wants things that were talked about during the A but not actually done? What if these things are not actually a turn-on to the WS but the BS expects it to be because it was talked about?

Does that make sense?

[This message edited by Sandcrab at 8:08 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 8:09 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Uhm... are we still talking about the same thing here on this thread?

I know that on marriage builders questionaire of emotional needs, physical affection and sexual satisfaction/gratification/whatever they called it were listed as emotional needs. Of course they have a longish list of needs, including conversation, child rearing, financial support, domestic duties...

If we are starting a new topic here, sorry to intrude.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
wannabenormal
Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Sandcrab - could be me, but I don't understand - could you be a little more specific?

Do you mean like going to counseling or something?

[This message edited by wannabenormal at 8:11 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
Sandcrab
Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

No I wasn't trying to change the subject just trying to expand it to include physical needs also.

No I wasn't talking about going to counciling. I was asking more about physical things done in the bedroom.

If there was something not originally done in the bedroom between spouses but in the messed up A time it was talked about a lot with the OP is it expected that the WS now do this thing even though the WS may not want to?

Never mind, I do not need an answer. I really do not want to go into more detail about this.

So back to your original programming on emotional needs.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
wannabenormal
Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Okay, I thought you were probably talking about something of the physical nature since 'turn on' was mentioned.

I wouldn't do anything I was uncomfortable with and just tell BS that. I, personally, would understand.

[This message edited by wannabenormal at 8:34 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Okay sandcrab, I crossposted on that one, I assume you are talking about sexual acts or fantasies or something. Perhaps certain fetishes being discussed with AP, and now BS feels like they would be okay since WS has already expressed an interest in them with AP?

In a case like that, I think the important thing to remember is that fantasies are not reality. Even if an idea has some interest on a fantasy level, it could be truly awfull if ever attempted to realize. Lots of women find The story of O erotic, but I don't know of any that would actually want to live it. A milder example would be stripping. Based on the ppularity of pole dancing classes, I am assuming a lot of women like the fantasy of being a stripper, but when it comes to amatuer night, there are nothing but a bunch of professionals who show up hoping to win the money.

Are you talking about things like this, where some explanation like I gave above that your BS could relate to would apply, or are you talking about things that hold NO interest at all that you only talked about with AP to keep AP interested?

If it is anything that your BS has a real interest in, you will have a hard time explaining it. It may be seen as more of a rejection of BS and the explanation may come across as a rationalization even if it is not.

In either case, I think perhaps the standard mantra of be honest will apply.

ETA: I spent to long thinking and writing this one, and once again we crossposted. I hope you feel comfortable with the categories I broke it down into.

[This message edited by aesir at 8:41 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
DesertLotus
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Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

If there was something not originally done in the bedroom between spouses but in the messed up A time it was talked about a lot with the OP is it expected that the WS now do this thing even though the WS may not want to?

I haven't been in this situation - but I'll be honest. I'd want to know why you would talk so much about it (with the OP) if you weren't interested in doing it. And I would have a hard time believing it wasn't actually done (in the affair). If it was talked about so much, ya - I would wonder what was up.

I don't think anyone should do anything sexually that they are not comfortable with. But, if it were me, I would have a very hard time believing that my husband had no interest in something he talked so much about. I would also have a very hard time believing he hadn't actually done it. JMO


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Sandcrab & DL, I think there may be a gender difference on this one, just do to the nature of certain acts which are possible, and the relative pleasure or discomfort potential for either party involved.

Of course that depends on the act, which may be TMI.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
DesertLotus
Member
Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Gender differences? I was commenting on what I would have a hard time believing.

I would want to know why my husband wouldn't do *xyz* with me if he talked about it so much with the OW. I would want to know why, and I would not believe he had no interest if he talked so much about doing it.

I may not want to actually perform the act (it would depend upon what it actually was) - but you bet I'd want to know why it's ok to do xyz with the OP and not me?


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

I think there might be gender differences in the ability to believe that it was talked about but there is no real interest. I did not want to get graphic, but there are certain acts that do have a fantasy appeal to a lot of people, that men would not have a problem with, but that women might find enjoyable or uncomfortable KWIM. I think it is easier for a man to believe that a woman would talk about those things with AP without actually wanting to do them, but that a man whose AP talked about them would likely have no reservations on doing. I suppose there may be acts that this applies to the other way as well, but I can not think of any right now.

Your mileage may vary.

In either case, honesty is the best policy. It is easiest to be consistent if you are honest, and if you are consistently honest, eventually the inconsistencies may be viewed as part of the fucked up nature of A's.

Sandcrab, are we helping at all here?


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
DesertLotus
Member
Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

I would not personally go on and on about a sex act I had no interest in.

Therefore, I would have a hard time believing this.

That's all I'm saying.


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
Sandcrab
Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

are you talking about things that hold NO interest at all that you only talked about with AP to keep AP interested?

This is it, YES I used to say things to the AP to keep him interested. But my husband believes that I talked about it so much because I wanted to do it, which is not true.

If it is anything that your BS has a real interest in, you will have a hard time explaining it. It may be seen as more of a rejection of BS and the explanation may come across as a rationalization even if it is not.

Yes my husband has an interest in this, I never really have. And he does feel rejection because of this. I have gotten to where I can do most of what he wants but completing it is where I have trouble and I can't seem to remove this block. I have talked to him about this but he believes it is him and nothing that I say will change his mind.

I guess I will just continue trying and maybe one day I can make him happy.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
Sandcrab
Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

I think the important thing to remember is that fantasies are not reality. Even if an idea has some interest on a fantasy level, it could be truly awfull if ever attempted to realize.

I know that it was fantasy and not reality. I have a hard time trying to tell him that this is what it was. He still believes there is something wrong with him.

I guess I am banging my head over something that I shouldn't be, it is just that I never enjoyed doing what he wants. I will do it as best I can to make him happy though.

This is not something that I should be complaining over at all. He stood beside me and he has allowed me to stay and work on this so I should do all he asks no matter how I feel.

Thanks for helping everyone.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Perhaps this may depend more on the nature of the early relationship between the spouses then. Was a similar dynamic in play when talking about fantasies early on where things were discussed but never actually done? Or perhaps attempted early on and not enjoyed so they were not done again?

Maybe it depends on the types of communication patterns that people have or had early in the relationship, How they talked about sex when it was not immediately possible...


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
DesertLotus
Member
Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

I have never been ambiguous about what I am not comfortable doing in bed. And this is one of the reasons. It leads to confusion and bruised feelings when mixed messages are sent. I know that sooner or later, if I talk a lot about "xyz" - it is going to be expected.

JMO YMMV


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Sandcrab, I think you may have misinterpreted the quote from me. I know we are so used to the mantra that A's are fantasy and not reality, but in this case I was talking about the actual sex acts themselves as a fantasy, not the A. While people might enjoy the A fantasy while it lasts, there are many sexual fantasies that people might not enjoy at all while they are happening. They might be turned on by the idea, but the actual act could be very uncomfortable, or even painfull. Examples of this would vary from person to person, but anything related to bondage, anal, exhibitionism, airplane washrooms (those things are cramped)...

One might talk about the fantasy with either an AP or their spouse, and be quite enthusiastic during the talks, but when it came time to do it...


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Sandcrab
Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Or perhaps attempted early on and not enjoyed so they were not done again?

Enjoyed by him, but not by me.

edited because of TMI

[This message edited by Sandcrab at 9:31 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


I ♥ LostJim

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Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
kdny
Member
Member # 760
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Ok, jumping in....

Sand I'm a little confused so clarify for me. Are you saying that LJ is focusing on this aspect of the A because its something you did and can't now?


Whether we remain ash or become phoenix is up to us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes the fine line between a nervous breakdown and knowing things will be okay is a pair of furry pants~unfound

Posts: 81335 | Registered: Dec 2002 | From: Slightly left of center, standing on my head
Sandcrab
Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

aesir, I knew you were talking about the sexual acts being fantasy. Some things are exciting to think about but not exciting to actually do.

This is where I have gotten myself stuck where I am.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
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Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
Sandcrab
Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

kdny, LJ is focusing on this because it was talked about a lot between me and the maggot. This was not done during the A.

This is something that I do not enjoy and did not enjoy before. But it was talked about a lot to keep the maggots attention. It happened to be the only thing I could think of to keep it interested.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
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Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
kdny
Member
Member # 760
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Ok, I understand now.

I think the words "It happened to be the only thing I could think of to keep it interested." are key there for both you and LJ. It wasn't real.

It is hard for us to hear about things that were talked about and/or done. It tends to be the focus during part of our healing.


Whether we remain ash or become phoenix is up to us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes the fine line between a nervous breakdown and knowing things will be okay is a pair of furry pants~unfound

Posts: 81335 | Registered: Dec 2002 | From: Slightly left of center, standing on my head
Sandcrab
Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Now I just have to get LJ to understand that.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Sorry for the delay, was taking a shower. Don't be embarrased about not being able to do that, they never do it in pornos either.

I think if you have been consistent about this all along, I think that eventually your BS will accept that. It is a minor act really (although one I would not want to give up ) It may even be something that helps to level the field for the time of the A, if BH comes to see it as lies to the OM to keep it going as well. I really can't speak for him. If you now actually were to perform this thing which may *poof* from your post, when you never did before, he may find it harder to believe that it never happened during the A. If all the talk during the A was of the I wanna variety, and never of the that was so good when variety, eventually he will come to understand.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
unarmbears
Member
Member # 7480
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

This is not something that I should be complaining over at all. He stood beside me and he has allowed me to stay and work on this so I should do all he asks no matter how I feel.

Oh (((Sandy))) honey! No no no no no! I really feel that sexual things need to be mutual.

Don't put yourself in a position of being uncomfortable with something because LJ let you stay with him. Honey, honey honey, you are valuable to him and not just a w**re. You still get to decide on these matters. You do!

I see it as a barrier that could really build if you were to choose to follow up the way he wants you to.

Intimacy needs to be mutual. If doing that makes you want to please don't put yourself into that position.

Fantasy talk vs physical intimacy is really just foreplay to make the actual act more exciting, it doesn't mean you are going to do it.

Does that make any sense at all?

edited to remove tmi

[This message edited by unarmbears at 11:30 AM, July 4th (Friday)]


FBS-Me, 60
FWH-Him, 55
2 Sons 25 and 30
2 Daughters 28, 24 And 3 darling grandchildren!
"Love is an impulsive act, it's free. It's the story we tell about it afterward that's our poverty." Byron Katie

Posts: 4886 | Registered: Jun 2005 | From: From where the trees lean east...
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Damn crossposting...

So it was an example of the second type I mentioned, just something said to keep the A going. I think that your BH may be able to relate to the idea of lies to keep the A going. There is some comfort to be had in the idea that OP was lied to as well, even if it was minor. If one is inclined, it can even be seen as more evidence that the A had nothing to do with BH or the OM.

How one chooses to perceive the situation is very important. How your BH will choose depends a lot on how your R has progressed up to this point I believe.

ETA: damn long thread, I was thinking about what you said, and had some thoughts along the line of what unarmbears said, but forgot to post them.

[This message edited by aesir at 9:51 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
DesertLotus
Member
Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

I agree, whatever is done in the bedroom should be mutual. I think the problem is that LJ feels rejected, and I honestly don't know what you can do to help him with that. I'd feel the same way.

I'm sorry.

((((Sandcrab))))


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
neverendinghurt
Member
Member # 15859
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Sandcrab, as a BS, I have a similar issue with my WH, and I think that possibly many of us do, though the issue may not always be sex.

I understand the mindset that says "if you did that with x then you can do it with me" in my case, it isn't sex but there is a bone of contention betweeen WH and I about my perception of something that happened.

It is something we have not yet resolved, and I am not sure that my WH is ever going to be able to convince me of his version, especailly as I have some "evidence" that contradicts him.

I think the two of you need to talk more about this.

Maybe with more talk, you can find a compromise that suits both of you.


The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and writes another; and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it is with what he vowed to make it.
James M. Barrie

Posts: 26032 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Seattle
neverendinghurt
Member
Member # 15859
Default  Posted: 10:13 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

I don't feel rejected when the bone of contention between WH and myself arises, I feel angry.

Angry that he could do this for her, but not for me.

WH says he was doing it for him, not for her.

I think that is similar to what you are saying.

You were talking about xxx to keep OM interested to satisfy your own needs, not his. Have I understood that correctly?

it's possible that your spouse doesn't understand or in my case, I understand it on one level, but it almost doesn't matter, becasue what I need is for WH to show me in tenagible ways that I matter more than OW did.

Hope that makes sense and helps


The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and writes another; and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it is with what he vowed to make it.
James M. Barrie

Posts: 26032 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Seattle
wildbananas
Member
Member # 10552
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Hi Sandcrab... just thought I'd throw in my haypenny.

I too believe acts in the bedroom need to be 100% consensual. That doesn't mean you both have to be wildly turned on by the idea, but you both need to be open and interested in the act.

If you do something you honestly don't want to do in the name of keeping the peace, all you'll feel in the end is a lot of resentment.

Is LJ hurt because he feels that's something you'd do for maggot but not him?

That's a tough spot, honey... I wish I had a fabulous solution for you. Sadly, the only thing I can trot out is talk, talk, talk... the second-most-used word on SI in regards to R. (The first, of course, is time. )

(((((Sandcrab)))))


Travel light, live light, spread the light, be the light. ~ Yogi Bhajan

Posts: 15279 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Just a Cali girl
usedup
Member
Member # 11701
Default  Posted: 11:59 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

sand,I am gonna throw out something in hopes of helping you...there is something was done in the A,that I did early on and ***edited****.so we have a bone(sorry no pun) of contention over it..it made me cry one night because I thought he wanted to "save" that as something only done in the A...I took his meaning totally wrong...and he misunderstood me...
I tell you all that to give you Jim's side..I would venture that he views it as something you are trying to save in context of the A or something..and I missed your edited post so I didn't get to read it.I hope this helps cause now the whole world knows

[This message edited by usedup at 10:38 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 15831 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: found
maestro
Member
Member # 9016
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Neverendinghurt,

"It is something we have not yet resolved, and I am not sure that my WH is ever going to be able to convince me of his version, especailly as I have some "evidence" that contradicts him."

Have you confronted with your evidence?


Posts: 1198 | Registered: Dec 2005
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Hmm. In all honesty, this is one of those situations where there isn't any "smoothing over". There's not any way for LJ to look at it that will ever keep him from feeling excluded in this. Even if he understands that it was "just talk" with the xOM and not something you would have liked...it was something (a fantasy, yes) that you shared with xOM that is one you can never share with him honestly, because he already knows it's something you don't like.

Really, he'll eventually get to the place where he recognizes that it isn't important in the grand scheme of things -- I can't think of one sexual position/technique/incident that's ever been of life-shattering importance in the long term -- but that doesn't mean he'll ever be "okay" with it.

This definitely falls into the "it is what it is" category.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
whoami?
Member
Member # 19171
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

I know this thread kind of took on a life of it's own...but I have a new Q:

BS's...how did you know you wanted to R with your spouse? Did you attain forgiveness before you decided? What was your thought process?

Thanks :)


WS (Me) 28
BS (Him) 30
S-3, S-1
**The best musicians learn to trust that the music they will ultimately make is more important than today's wrong notes."
-Forgiving Ourselves

Posts: 128 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Under a Rock
Sandcrab
Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Thanks everyone... this has really generated a lot of thought and different POV's. I do appreciate it.

unarmbears:

Yes all you said does make sense.

Don't put yourself in a position of being uncomfortable with something because LJ let you stay with him.

I do as asked because I want to make my husband happy. And yes I do feel like I owe him a lot. But it is mostly because I want him to be happy and not feel second to anyone.

aesir:

Yes it was talked about to keep the A going... After the one night of PA with the maggot the rest of the time was only talk, text, email. I thought by talking about that then I would be able to keep the attention coming. So sick, I know. But LJ believes that if given the chance I would have done that and since it was talked about so much that it is the same as doing it.

DesertLotus:

LJ feels rejected and he feels like he is not number one. He feel inferior and I did all of this to him. I just want him to feel better about himself and will do just about anything to help him if I just knew what to do.

neverendinghurt:

LJ and I have talked and talked about this and he still feels the way he does.

You were talking about xxx to keep OM interested to satisfy your own needs, not his. Have I understood that correctly?

That is it exactly. I talked about that to keep the attention and talk going. If I kept talking about that then I would keep getting talk back and that would feed the fantasy I had in my mind.

wildbananas:

Is LJ hurt because he feels that's something you'd do for maggot but not him?

Yes, he thinks that I would have done it for the maggot where I have always had a problem with doing it for him. I am trying to work on doing it more but what I am doing is not enough.

UU:

You got it correct.

I would venture that he views it as something you are trying to save in context of the A or something

No, he wants me to do it for him, it is not something that I wanted but I do want to make him happy so I do what I can.

maestro:

Have you confronted with your evidence?

LJ has the text and email where this was talked about a lot. And he thinks that because it was talked about a lot that it was done, it wasn't done, it was just talked about.

wincing:

I am hoping that if I continue to "practice" this that I will eventually be able to do what LJ wants without the ugly side effects that I get (that is the best way that I can think of to explain that).

I hope I have answered everyones questions. Again thank you for your input!


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
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Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

But LJ believes that if given the chance I would have done that and since it was talked about so much that it is the same as doing it.

Who can blame him for thinking this way? We see time and time again on this site where WS's confess to doing things they didn't necessarily want to do or even enjoyed doing just so they could keep the fantasy going. Do you really believe you would have never committed this act had your OP pushed for it? I don't simply because denying that act could have ended the fantasy that you were feeding off of. I think that's what your BS absolutely believes too and by denying him this act, you are telling him he isn't worthy enough to do it for.

Now, am I saying you should do something you are not comfortable doing? Absolutely not. Unfortunately, this is not something that will be easily rectified as you already unfortunately know.

[This message edited by lieshurt at 9:52 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 13354 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
NoLongerWantHim
Member
Member # 19934
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

whoami?

I haven't decided yet - but I am willing to try.

My absolute deal breakers are

NC

No drinking

And make sure I come first.

I've gotten the 1st 2, and I believe my WH is clueless as to what the third entails.

He's still in the fog, and has only just admitted that the A was only his fault.

I'm doing the 180 right now, unless I'm pushed for a response - and my response generally is something along the lines of "when OW wanted - you did or gave" I want the same.

Then I get the eye roll and I don't understand response


Me & the kids are having the malignancy removed.

If I went to Hogwarts, my Patronus would be my Big Sister - GWADW


Posts: 4117 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Where I want to be, on the road to the future
Sandcrab
Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

lieshurt:

Who can blame him for thinking this way?

I do not blame him for thinking this way. I just want to do things that will make him happy and to feel better.

Do you really believe you would have never committed this act had your OP pushed for it?

I really do not know what would have happened. I do believe I would have tried but I do not think I could have completed the act. I have told LJ this also.

by denying him this act

I never said that I denied him this act. I do it for him even though it is something that I didn't before. I just have a hard time completing it.

you are telling him he isn't worthy enough to do it for.

Ok, so I will do it no matter how I feel.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
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Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
Prayin4Daylight
Member
Member # 15710
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Sandcrab,
I am following this thread ....

Ok, so I will do it no matter how I feel.

Don't you dare compromise yourself.

Yes, you did a horrific thing by having the A but this is not fair or right for you to have to do anything that you are not comfortable doing . It is not right to inflict this sort of punishment on you . Bullshit, it is. You did not commit the act with OM, thinking & talking about it are different....

Do not compromise the integrity that you have now gained. (( Sandcrab ))

I am sorry that this is even an issue for you.


Prayin

Elected Voting Vixen


Posts: 8444 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Upstate New York
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

whoami,

I've made a great deal more progress on forgiveness than on committing to R.

In many ways, the two are exclusive. Just because there's forgiveness doesn't mean that R is the logical follow-up. Forgiveness doesn't mean that the BS has decided the relationship is worth salvaging or that they want to be with their WS anymore.

In similar fashion, you can R without complete forgiveness, too (or with just a "commitment to forgiveness" that never achieves actual forgiveness).

Personally, at better than 18 months out, sometimes I feel like R, but most of the time I feel like I'm just waiting on the right cue to divorce.

And all of the time, I'm just taking it day by day and not making any long term decisions. Today, I'm reconciling. That's all I plan on offering for the duration of the relationship.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 10:47 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
AIHAH
Member
Member # 19040
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

I am a BS in R, although it is looks as if it may be a cover-up. I think that it is important to be who you are, do what you like and try things when you can. If you don't like the sushi, then you shouldn't eat it. If your partner pressures you, then they are not respectful of who you are. One of the things I have had to learn here is that my feelings are my feelings. My H's are his. Finding the compromise or acceptance of those feelings is what committed relationships are about and it's also what complicates them. I am not supposed to lose me nor is he supposed to lose him. If that compromise or acceptance can't be found, then I have to decide if I am willing to accept what he gives/does/wants or not. He has to do the same thing. I have to stand by me and I can't ask him not to be him. If he doesn't "do" what I need, then I have to decide if that is a deal breaker or a compromise. I am who I am because of all the things that make up my life. Some of those affect me positively and some of those affect me negatively but in the end, I have to do what is right for me. Losing me in this would be a deal breaker.


Giving my best one day at a time and so is my FWH. :)
AIHAH

Posts: 860 | Registered: Apr 2008
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Good stuff in AIHAH's post.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
DesertLotus
Member
Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

whoami,


BS's...how did you know you wanted to R with your spouse?

I knew I was serious about reconciliation when my husband demonstrated that he was - when he stopped lying (trickle truth) and became vulnerable and open to me.

He had already done NC, he had already changed phone #s, emails, all means of contact. He was transparent, accountable for his time, remorseful, very attentive. But he wasn't honest. And I wasn't going to waste any more time trying to reconcile with lies. When my husband finally got honest with me, the difference was like night and day. That's when I knew he was serious about saving our marriage.


Did you attain forgiveness before you decided? What was your thought process?

Oh my no! lol. Forgiveness took quite a while longer to achieve. I committed to R five months after DDay, I achieved forgiveness about a year later.

We're successfully reconciled now.


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Ok, so I will do it no matter how I feel.

Sandcrab, I didn't say this is what you should do. I actually said you shouldn't do something you aren't comfortable with. Honestly, I don't believe it will make a difference if you "finish the act" or not. I don't believe he will be appeased by this. He may believe he will be, but I don't think so. He'll just start saying you didn't willingly do it for him, but you would have for the OP. I think your BS must work on himself in this situation and come to terms with this. The answer lies within him, not with you hun.


Posts: 13354 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
kdny
Member
Member # 760
Red  Posted: 11:34 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Just putting a small caution on this thread.

If any BS finds themselves triggering or angry at a question I suggest you stay off the thread. This thread is only for those BS who are far enough along to answer these questions in a non emotional way.

Please reread the first post. You will lose your profile if you don't follow those rules.


Whether we remain ash or become phoenix is up to us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes the fine line between a nervous breakdown and knowing things will be okay is a pair of furry pants~unfound

Posts: 81335 | Registered: Dec 2002 | From: Slightly left of center, standing on my head
Prayin4Daylight
Member
Member # 15710
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Okay kdny !


Prayin

Elected Voting Vixen


Posts: 8444 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Upstate New York
hollywood_mjl
Member
Member # 16664
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

BS's...how did you know you wanted to R with your spouse? Did you attain forgiveness before you decided? What was your thought process?

I wanted to R pretty early on because I loved him and didn't know the whole story. As he continued to hurt me with the trickle truth, not working on the issues and no NC, I fell out of love with him and didn't really want to R for a long time. I'm still on the fence really. I'm opening myself up, but I know now that I will be okay without him. So, he has put a lot of effort and I really haven't seen that yet. Forgiveness alludes me. I have to feel that he is really sorry before that happens, and he just doesn't act too sorry. It's more that he is sorry for the things he lost (friends, OW etc.)


Eh, he had an Affair, I left him...and I'm happy...life goes on.

Posts: 1234 | Registered: Oct 2007
neverendinghurt
Member
Member # 15859
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

whoami

On DDAy, I asked WH for the whole truth, I wanted him to be completely honest with me, so that I could see what it was I was facing, so that we could figure out what went wrong, and so we could decide whether R was what we both wanted and if it was possible.

I knew that I could not make a decision to R without it.

In hindsight, I think that in sayong and doing that, I showed a willingness to try to R then.

Unfortunately WH, lied/gasighter/trickle truthed for 20 months, and each time I discovered the lies, it pushed R further out of sight.

I now think I have most of the truth, probably as much as I am ever going to get.

I am struggling with R, not sure if I want it or not. But I am testing the water.

I think what will make me commit to it fully, is feeling more confident in his honesty, seeing much more commitment in him, seeing him showing true understanding of what he has done, the damge he has caused to himself, to me to our kids and to our marriage.

No I haven't forgiven him yet, and I am not sure that I will be able to.

In fact, the way I have managed to begin to try and R, is to accept that the relationship we had is over, and I have told him that he has to accept that too. I have told him that I am willing to see if I can learnt to love him again and build a new relationship.


[This message edited by neverendinghurt at 12:46 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]


The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and writes another; and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it is with what he vowed to make it.
James M. Barrie

Posts: 26032 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Seattle
CluelessBlonde
Member
Member # 13933
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

BS's...how did you know you wanted to R with your spouse? Did you attain forgiveness before you decided? What was your thought process?

Although X and I didn't reconcile, I feel somewhat qualified to answer this question. I wanted to reconcile from the beginning. While I hadn't forgiven him for what he'd done, I knew it was in me to forgive him. I loved him and would've committed to reconcile in a heartbeat if he had given me what I needed, which was the truth.

Since he was unable to do that, I wasn't able to reconcile with him.


If you think you are too small to be effective, you have never been in the dark with a mosquito.

If you eat a live toad first thing in the morning, nothing worse can happen for the rest of the day.


Posts: 24947 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: NYC area
whoami?
Member
Member # 19171
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Thanks for your thoughts on R. I know that's what I want, but BH is still thinking on it. It's just hard to wait.

Another Q:
I know it is early (3 1/2 mos) for BH and I to move forward in any kind of way, but he's said before that he just isn't the kind of person that can just move past things. Like, he's a grudge holder. I'm very much not like this, so the concept of not being able to make a choice about how you feel about something is hard for me to understand. So I guess my question is, have you ever conciously chosen to let go? Or is it just a gradual thing? Or is it something that some people just CANNOT do?


WS (Me) 28
BS (Him) 30
S-3, S-1
**The best musicians learn to trust that the music they will ultimately make is more important than today's wrong notes."
-Forgiving Ourselves

Posts: 128 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Under a Rock
Prayin4Daylight
Member
Member # 15710
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Whoami,
I am , by nature, a grudge holder .....For me, it started out as a gradual letting go.But at one point,about a year into R, I came to the realization that we could never truly R unless I let it go in some form .....

It is almost an escape mechanism, I think. In other words, I held onto things that people had done wrong so that if something else came up, I could shout " See, I knew it . " It was self preservation in the sense that I kept a log of all the wrongs done to me thereby never having to forgive a one or allow a deeper connection.

Since then, I have worked hard on this grudge thing and have come very far....I also felt a huge weight lifted from MYSELF when I consciously decided that it was time to " let it go ".

So, in a nutshell, I was that one who thought that they could never get over it but I have and am better for it .....


Prayin

Elected Voting Vixen


Posts: 8444 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Upstate New York
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

...so the concept of not being able to make a choice about how you feel about something is hard for me to understand...

So you didn't have a problem going NC or breaking off the affair the moment after it started?

You understand your husband's situation more than you're willing to admit to yourself, I think, because he's going through exactly the same evaluation process about you that you went through with your OP.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
neverendinghurt
Member
Member # 15859
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Or is it something that some people just CANNOT do

I am not normally a grudge holder, typically, I get upset about something, have my say and it is over and done with.

This is different.

Infidelity is not just a matter of someone upsetting you by, it is a deep betrayal of everything that you hold dear.

I don't think being unable to move to R, is the same as holding a grudge.

In a strange way, infidelity not only damages your trust in the person that betrayed you, but it damages your trust in yourself. I think as BS's we question ourselves and our judgements after Dday. How could I have not known? How could I have been so stupid? How could I have been so blind? Why did I believe?

I think the inability to move past it and towards R, in some ways comes down to fear. Afraid to trust again, Afraid of being hurt again.



The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and writes another; and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it is with what he vowed to make it.
James M. Barrie

Posts: 26032 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Seattle
DesertLotus
Member
Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

whoami,


I know it is early (3 1/2 mos) for BH and I to move forward in any kind of way, but he's said before that he just isn't the kind of person that can just move past things. Like, he's a grudge holder.

I don't think there is a person alive that can just "move past" being stabbed in the back by the one person that is supposed to be guarding their back. It takes time to work through the extreme pain, the intense emotions, and be able to think rationally enough to begin to make decisions about one's life. And how you treat your husband (whether or not you are honest, transparent, remorseful, and committed to him) will go a long way toward repairing what you have done.

It takes on average two to five *years* to recover from something like this - so ya, he's not going to be able to "move past" this. There is only one way forward, and that's through it. There is no quick fix for the extensive damage. Let him know you are in this for the long haul. Because that's what it will take.

No one is obligated to reconcile, it is a gift. But most BS's are willing to offer that gift, if they have a remorseful WS willing to do what it takes.

I'm very much not like this, so the concept of not being able to make a choice about how you feel about something is hard for me to understand.

If you truly can not understand why your husband may be unsure of the future of your marriage - then you have no concept of the severity of what you have done. Have you read any of the articles in the healing library here? Have you read any of the posts in JFO? Do you *see* your husband's pain, or do you run from it? There are no easy answers to a situation like this, and it is usually advised not to make any life altering decisions for a year - because decisions made in the heat of emotion can be regretted, and because in many cases, it takes at least a year to be able to assess the situation clearly. So not being able to make a choice right now is normal. Expecting your husband to make a choice is unrealistic given the nature of the transgression. In my post DDay anger, if my husband had forced a decision on me too soon - I would have told him "if you wouldn't commit to me (and cheated instead), why should I commit now"?

I honestly think that both spouses need to explore their ability to commit, and what commitment really means - together. Commitment isn't just a word. It's also not a substitute for safety, or permission to once again take the relationship for granted. Commitment is as much a promise to onesself as it is to the other person. And it's something one *does*, not merely something one *says*.


So I guess my question is, have you ever conciously chosen to let go? Or is it just a gradual thing? Or is it something that some people just CANNOT do?

I get the impression you just want to give up, hon. It takes more than a few months to repair the damage you have inflicted, your husband is going to have a lot of healing to do - and yes, ultimately he may decide this is a deal breaker for him. Some people can't reconcile after something like this. I think you should let him make that decision for himself though.

Reconciliation isn't going to be easy. It takes two committed spouses to succeed. But I think if you cut and run now because it looks too hard, you will be not only short selling your husband, but yourself as well.

JMO

[This message edited by DesertLotus at 1:34 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
Prayin4Daylight
Member
Member # 15710
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

No, infidelity is not the same as holding a grudge but....

Before I knew about my H's A, I was one who did not let things go...I mean, little things. I could tell you about something my brother did to me in 1980....I analyzed and obsessed over little wrongs. And sometimes, the problem was that I was not accurate in my assessments and the wrongs were more perceived than actual ....I blew things out of proportion and actually dropped friends over minor issues ....

Than Dday hit ....So for my personality type, this was unfathomable that I could ever R without bringing this up every day for the rest of our lives....

So, while I agree that holding a grudge cannot be compared to the devastation of infidelity, personality types weigh into the R process as well. And for me,long before infidelity hit home , not forgiving acts or people by holding " grudges " was my way of not putting myself out there ....It is a way of black and white thinking that does not always work but was self serving for me .


Prayin

Elected Voting Vixen


Posts: 8444 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Upstate New York
whoami?
Member
Member # 19171
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Desert Lotus, by no means am I giving up. And I am not looking for forgiveness or decisions or 'moving past' this right now. I know it will take time. And I am committed to that.

I'm sorry if I came off as if I am taking the seriousness of my A lightly. I am not. I KNOW what I did to my H. I KNOW the destruction I've caused. I'm just looking for insight for down the road, the light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. It was not my intention at all to sound flippant. I'm terribly, terribly sorry if I did-- I know that all of the BS's are going through/have been through absolute hell, and I don't want to downplay that at all.

I am not cutting and running. Just trying to get all the information that I can to understand everything, to learn from it, and to be able to grow with my BH when/if he is ready to.


WS (Me) 28
BS (Him) 30
S-3, S-1
**The best musicians learn to trust that the music they will ultimately make is more important than today's wrong notes."
-Forgiving Ourselves

Posts: 128 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Under a Rock
DesertLotus
Member
Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

(((whoami)))

There is no need to apologize, hon. Really.

But if you *know* the extent of what you have done, why would you not understand your husband's confusion?

Putting yourself in your BS's shoes might help you to show more empathy for his pain. I know doing so helped my husband.

Best wishes to you both hon.

[This message edited by DesertLotus at 1:49 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
whoami?
Member
Member # 19171
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

I think that the problem is I know what is in my head. I know my commitment, my remorse...and I can trust me. He just can't. I don't blame him. So it's definitely easier for me to see a brighter future than it is for him.

I also know that we are very different people when it comes to how we deal with emotions. And I guess my question had to do with how different personalities dealt with the healing process, and if it makes a difference. Does that make sense?

I'm just trying to do the best that I can...trying to figure out what more I can do to help BH because I'm floundering...I've doing everything that is in my control, and now I just have to let it go and see what he decides. And relinquishing control is something that I don't do well.

[This message edited by whoami? at 2:01 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]


WS (Me) 28
BS (Him) 30
S-3, S-1
**The best musicians learn to trust that the music they will ultimately make is more important than today's wrong notes."
-Forgiving Ourselves

Posts: 128 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Under a Rock
DesertLotus
Member
Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Does that make sense?

Sure, but ultimately what your husband needs to heal is something only he can answer.


I'm just trying to do the best that I can...trying to figure out what more I can do to help BH because I'm floundering...I've doing everything that is in my control, and now I just have to let it go and see what he decides. And reliquishing control is something that I don't do well.

Relinquishing control (while scary) is actually one of the best gifts you can give your husband (along with honesty, transparency, and the commitment to stand by him while he figures himself out). None of us can control anyone else anyways - but actively accepting that you have no control is one of the biggest hurdles and one of the most loving gifts - when we let our loved ones be who they want to be and make their own choices for themselves, what happens is a new found gratitude for every shared moment - and the wisdom of protecting the marriage rather than taking it for granted becomes so obvious. (And this is true regardless of what hat one wears, it is one of my most cherished epiphanies and has brought me the most joy).

I would also recommend MC. The communication skills we learned from counseling were invaluable. Even if we didn't get anything else from counseling, that alone makes it worth going. (But of course, we got much much more from our MC than just that). I can't overstate the benefit we received from counseling. It saved our marriage.

[This message edited by DesertLotus at 2:10 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
whoami?
Member
Member # 19171
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Thanks for your insight, DL. I promise to let go of the control...

We are in MC now. At my suggestion. I think that we have a lot of work to do, but ultimately it is a positive way to help us communicate.


WS (Me) 28
BS (Him) 30
S-3, S-1
**The best musicians learn to trust that the music they will ultimately make is more important than today's wrong notes."
-Forgiving Ourselves

Posts: 128 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Under a Rock
SoDisappointed
Member
Member # 19609
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, July 5th (Saturday)

Re:reconcilliation.....I would like to think that one day I can R, but first I have to get beyond the hurt/betrayal that I am feeling. I guess I feel that I have to find that happy place again within myself before I can find that again in my marriage. It's been about 6 mths since D-day and it only seems to be getting worse for me, so for now, R is the last thing on my mind and my FWH knows that and is giving me my space.


DDay-Feb08
Divorced

Oh, my friend, it's not what they take away from you that counts. It's what you do with what you have left. ~Hubert Humphrey


Posts: 565 | Registered: May 2008
thyme2go
Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, July 7th (Monday)

I know it is early (3 1/2 mos) for BH and I to move forward in any kind of way, but he's said before that he just isn't the kind of person that can just move past things.

My STBX wanted an answer as to whether I wanted to R or D the day after Dday!

I told her I would let her know in a year. She said she did the not want to waste the time waiting for me to decide and effort trying to R and thus filed for D six months later... basically saying the same thing you are... that I would never treat her fairly.

Patience is a virtue.

-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
wildbananas
Member
Member # 10552
Default  Posted: 1:08 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Same here as t2g - XH not only wanted an answer about R stat (right after any D-Day) he always wanted me to act like a honeymooner with him.

Neither was realistic. In fact, all it did was scare me and breed resentment.

I think we could have had more of a chance if he'd been able to give me some time. DL is right - relinquishing that control is probably one of the biggest gifts you can give your H.

Hugs,

WB


Travel light, live light, spread the light, be the light. ~ Yogi Bhajan

Posts: 15279 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Just a Cali girl
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:53 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I wonder sometimes if it's more about control than it is a reflection of how completely the marriage is taken for granted. I know that my FWW is still shocked and baffled when it comes up that almost 2 years after D-day, I still give serious consideration to divorce at times.

When the WS, especially early on, views R as a foregone conclusion -- i.e., they're just waiting for the BS to get on the bus -- the message the BS receives is "Why *wouldn't* you want to still be married to me? I haven't done anything that bad."

An affair is *always* a dealbreaker. Always. The deal (i.e., the marriage) might be renegotiated (thus, R) after sufficient time and thought, but that doesn't change the fact that the original deal was broken.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
acreswild
Member
Member # 19371
Default  Posted: 6:31 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

wincing.. I agree.. I have told my WW that the marriage was a sham.. and that I need to look at the NEW person I am seeing for the very first time and ask myself whether I want that person in my life.. treat it as a new relationship as it were... and sadly on some days that new person is just not very likable.. let alone lovable.. this causes me more than a little strain...


BS-Me-59
WW- Her-59
Married 36 years
PA/EA/?A...depends on definition....
She finally admitted an old 3-4 year affair ( over 25 years ago) followed by a very sporadic on-again off-again 8 year PA followed by lengthy EA that would likely still be

Posts: 409 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Chicago
Frog
Member
Member # 19331
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Here is a great song that I think describes how a BS is feeling after an A. It might help the WS's also to have it put into this perspective.

I'm still learning how to pray
Trying hard not to stray
Try to see things your way
I'm still learning how to pray
I'm still learning how to trust
It's so hard to open up
And I'd do anything for us
I'm still learning how to trust

[Chorus:]
I'm still learning how to bend
How to let you in
In a world full of tears
We'll conquer all our fears
I'm still learning how to fly
I wanna take you higher
I'll be there till the end
I'll be your lover and your friend
I'm still learning how to bend

I'm just trying to understand
It's all in someone else's hands
There's always been a bigger plan
But I don't need to understand

[Chorus:]
I'm still learning how to bend
How to let you in
In a world full of tears
We'll conquer all our fears
I'm still learning how to fly
I wanna take you higher
I'll be there till the end
I'll be your lover and your friend
I'm still learning how to bend

I'll be there till the end
I'll be your lover and your friend
I'm still learning how to bend
I'm still learning how to bend
I'll be there till the end
I'm still learning how to bend


Me, BS 33
Him, FWS 35 (MrFrog)
Married 10 years
DDay 12-11-07

Posts: 834 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NW US
healingmyself
Member
Member # 19481
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

Whomi,

I hear in your posts your fear and frustration, I am so sorry you are dealing with this.

IMO, the one thing that helped me tremedously was my H abilty to accept me for each day and whatever emotion I was dealing with ( the good, bad, ugly),

H was able to accept that our R meant one day at a time and that each day I may change my mind one day threatening divorce the next minute saying I am just not sure.

His abilty to be EXTREMELY patient even when any human could not possibly be that patient. Showed me he was Committed.

Although I still go back and forth in what I want We have learned to remind each other ONE DAY AT A TIME
When we actually adhere to this then I believe each day that I remain here under the same roof, whether it is screaming crying talking or having a good day. Then he says he is able to look at how blessed he is that he is still here and we have a chance of continueing to work at our relationship.

I believe if he ever asked me if I was committed to R I would have not had a true answer because the answer can sometimes change up to 25 times a day.

I believe by your H continuing to even talk to you is his way of saying he wants this to work.

Try really hard to take your relationship one day at a time and sometimes even break it down to one minute at a time and after that one minute if he is still there then there is hope.

I hope this makes some sense to you, and I pray you both find some peace and happiness


BS 40+
FWH 40+
LTA 7+
M 15 years
D-Day Jan 08
one beautiful gorgeous 10yr son
trying real hard to R!!!

I was so busy preparing for the tornado, that I didn't see it coming!!


Posts: 1099 | Registered: May 2008
whoami?
Member
Member # 19171
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

Thanks for your comments, everyone.

Since I posted this Q, we've had a MC appointment, got some stuff out in the open, and I'm taking a serious step back in my expectations. I didn't realize that I was coming off so pushy...I was just trying to do the best I could to prove to BH that I was here, I wanted to work on our relationship, and I was willing to do whatever it takes... Apparently I just came off as annoying.

I'm working to let go of the control. I can work on me. I can show BH. But I can't make him move any faster, make any decisions, heal any better. There are some things he has to do on his own.

I also was able to clarify my intentions...I don't want a timeline...I don't want a date...I don't want a commitment to R (well, I do, but I can wait)- I just wanted the knowledge that he was working towards making those decisions, be what they may be.

So, now I work to let go of the control-freak thing. I let go of the "pursuer" role. I'm embracing the "one-day-at-a-time" attitude, because it's not fair to BH to expect any more than that from him.

Thanks, again. We'll see where this takes us.


WS (Me) 28
BS (Him) 30
S-3, S-1
**The best musicians learn to trust that the music they will ultimately make is more important than today's wrong notes."
-Forgiving Ourselves

Posts: 128 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Under a Rock
28and sad
New Member
Member # 19926
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, July 14th (Monday)

BH and I spent the weekend together with the kids at the house. I loved every minute of it. We talked about BH feelings from the A. MY question is BH said that he is having a hard time letting me back in life cause its not fair that I got to live life like some single person and then ask to come back and be a wife again. He is also having a hard time with the changes I have made. He wished that I would have done these changes prior to the A and maybe this would never happen. How can I help BH with these feelings


Yes it is a long road but I have walking shoes on and I hope we can get you a pair

Posts: 50 | Registered: Jun 2008
Cherry Tomato
Member
Member # 19255
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, July 14th (Monday)

Question for BH...we are 7 months out and my BH still struggles with feelings that my A was about him not being able to satisfy me - either emotionally, sexually, etc. I keep trying to reassure him that it was all about me and not about him or OM. OM was not at all better looking, more eduacated, more wealthy, etc. Quite the contrary...he was not up to par in all of those areas compared to my BH. He just thinks I gave it all up for OM when that's not at all the case. He just doesn't understand and it's killing him. He taken a huge blow to his ego, his manhood, and to his very soul. For those of you who realized your WW's A wasn't about OM at all, what were some of the things that truly helped you get past this? I know this question has been asked before, but I'm looking for some specifics from anyone who is willing to share.


FWW/FBW(me)-41; FBH/FWH(him)-42; DDay 12/25/07; M 15 yrs, 1 DD - 11
Separated 8/6/08; H moved back home 1/6/09; In R 4/24/09
"You and I’ll ride tonight till the past is out of sight. We don't have to look back now." ----Puddle of Mudd

Posts: 1128 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Wonderful New Happy Place
HurtingInDenver
Member
Member # 15974
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, July 14th (Monday)

H
ow can I help BH with these feelings

Time and patience. He is going to have to process through a lot of feelings. It's something HE has to do. The best way you can help him is by being completely transparent, answering all Qs he has regarding the A, and just being there for him.

Is he on SI?


I'm flat out spent, this woman she been driving me to tears
This woman so crazy, I swear I ain't going to touch another one for years -B.Dylan


Posts: 781 | Registered: Aug 2007
HurtingInDenver
Member
Member # 15974
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, July 14th (Monday)

For those of you who realized your WW's A wasn't about OM at all, what were some of the things that truly helped you get past this?

I was actually just talking to my IC about this today.

My STBXW did essentially leave me for the OM. In pretty much all areas, he is a total loser. It was devastating and took me a long time to deal with it.

When I would talk to our friends and family about it, everyone consistently reinforced what a "great catch" I am and what a loser this guy is (or at least what little they know about him). Honestly, that made it worse for me. I thought "If I'm so great and he's not then why did she leave?"

What really helped wasn't the ego-stroking they gave me, but the fact that they ALL said that what she did isn't how normal, helathy people handle relationships.

I specifically remember talking to one friend and telling her how I'm scared to get into another relationship because what hurt more than the As was the fact that she didn't want to even try and work on the M and I didn't want to go through that pain agian.

My friend told me to forget that shit because the way the M ended is NOT typical (AND that I'm a great guy )

I think that's when it finally clicked that there is something wrong with HER. She has something broken inside of her that she has to fix. All her decisions and actions are so irrational and so out-of-the-ordinary that I could of been the freaking husband-of-the-year (which I almost was ) and she still would of left.

It doesn't make the pain any less, but it helps me to know that it wasn't about me v. the OM, it was about there being something broken inside of her.

Hope this helps.


I'm flat out spent, this woman she been driving me to tears
This woman so crazy, I swear I ain't going to touch another one for years -B.Dylan


Posts: 781 | Registered: Aug 2007
AIHAH
Member
Member # 19040
Content  Posted: 4:21 PM, July 14th (Monday)

This is in response to Cherry Tomato. How do I know that my FWH's Affairs weren't about me? BSs are always looking for concrete answers because it helps us understand what has gone on. We don't want to believe that it is about our spouse's because then she/he is flawed and we are flawed for choosing them. It has to be because the OP was better in some manner. Things are easier when you can "see" them. My FWH didn't help me with that. One because he used me as his excuse and two because he can't. It's all about me. It took me awhile to realize that no matter what I did or looked, acted, etc., my H's choices were because of him not me. I certainly could have done everything that he did but chose not to. Many OP's, WS and the regulars folks(those not involved) think it is a reflection of the spouse. "If she/he were getting what he/she needed at home, they wouldn't have been looking for me". I've read and heard that a thousand times. My response has always been that if "He/she were putting into themselves and the marriage what they should, he/she wouldn't have time nor the need to look". Each side justifies their role, their mistakes, their needs, why it was done, etc. We have to. We have to have answers to why our perception of reality was wrong, no matter what side you are standing on. The answer for your spouse may be for him to work on what he wants/needs/deserves in your R and for himself. He needs to take care of himself by doing things he will or does enjoy. Saying it isn't about him is easy but understanding that isn't. If he works on "loving" himself better, perhaps he will learn that he could have been the greatest man on the earth and it still would have happenned. I'm sorry that you are here and he is here. I'm glad that you are "here" together as a team. Be kind. Point out things that are great about your man when there isn't a need to (meaning when he isn't questioning you as to why at the time). Good luck.


Giving my best one day at a time and so is my FWH. :)
AIHAH

Posts: 860 | Registered: Apr 2008
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, July 14th (Monday)

28and sad

What helped for me was reading a book. The book had arhetypes for affairs. It pretty much outlined how the whole thing happened. It was damn close in describing my WW before it happened. The small variations in the description of things were easy to reconcile by looking at aspects of similar archetypes. The behaviour during the A and reactions after Dday were damn near like someone who was watching my life. The book even made remarkably accurate predictions about what sort of behaviour to expect next. The book said nothing about me. After seing it all laid out like that, pretty much a script for the affair, what other conclusion could I draw? There was a description of the A, and a personality profile of the person involved. I don't know how well it would apply to others, but it helped me a lot in understanding. It is an ebook available from another site, so I don't want to advertise it here, but feel free to PM me for more info.

CT, I just read your post, and realized that perhaps the same might help you. I don't know how far along you are in determining how yours happened, or how much success you are having in explaining to your BH, but it might help him to see a description he recognizes and explanation of the A written with a copyright date of before your A. The same offer applies to you regarding PM's for more info, or to any other WS here who feels this would help them.

[This message edited by aesir at 5:48 PM, July 14th (Monday)]


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Ron7127
Member
Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 6:52 PM, July 14th (Monday)

CT, it is very tough for a BS to get to the point where he or she consitently believes the A was not about some deficiency in the BS. It seems many of us focus on the sexual, as that is a very vulnerable area for some.
In my case, lie Hurting in Denver, it has been helpful to get affirmations from outsiders. Of course, one still wonders if they are just trying to make you feel better. And, of course, one has to wonder about whether they have enough actual knowledge to make such an assessment.
To tell the truth, I think that for many people that are betrayed like this, there will always be some little corner of their mind(hopefully little) that questions where the OP was better. It's part of the damage and I do not think it can always be undone. But, peole do get through life bearing scars.
I really feel there is very little a WS can do to make this go away. He might have more luck in IC.

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
neverendinghurt
Member
Member # 15859
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, July 14th (Monday)

For cherrytomato. I am BW not a BH, I hope you don't mind me replying.

Although on a rational level, I KNOW that his infidelity was not about me or even our marriage, it feels very personal. It hurts ME.

Think of kids that are bullied at school, the problem lies with the bullies, not the bullied, but it is the bullied that is the victim, that feels the pain, that goes through all of the hurt and self doubt.

It will take lots of time, and a lot of patience and understanding from you to help your husband through this, a lot of reassurance, not just telling him the same thing (it wan't about you), but showing him, in every way that you can think of, that you love him, that he is the one that you want to be with.


The life of every man is a diary in which he means to write one story, and writes another; and his humblest hour is when he compares the volume as it is with what he vowed to make it.
James M. Barrie

Posts: 26032 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Seattle
Cherry Tomato
Member
Member # 19255
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)

Thanks everyone who responded. BH will not go to IC or MC so that's out of the question. Right now, his mindset is "Screw all that psycho-babble. I'm tired of hearing that you needed validation, blah, blah, blah. I get all that and I understand. Bottom line...you f*cked another man at the same time you were f*cking me, you lied about it, and now I'm supposed to accept it and move on. How am I supposed to do this?" He is absolutely overcome with anger and pain. Last night was one of the worst nights we've had in a long time. He keeps threatening D cuz he sees no way of dealing with this. In his mind, if we separate, he no longer has to deal. Truth is, he will but he can do it without me.

I feel so lost...I have shown him that I'm committed to him and our family, but it's not enough. When I ask what I can do to help him he says either "Shoot me in the head" or "Turn back time and make it never to have happened". Is there anything else I can do for him?


FWW/FBW(me)-41; FBH/FWH(him)-42; DDay 12/25/07; M 15 yrs, 1 DD - 11
Separated 8/6/08; H moved back home 1/6/09; In R 4/24/09
"You and I’ll ride tonight till the past is out of sight. We don't have to look back now." ----Puddle of Mudd

Posts: 1128 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Wonderful New Happy Place
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)

Hon, I'm almost two years out and I spend much of my time in the headspace your husband is in.

And I do all the reading, the psycho-babble, the work on myself -- it's my FWW who says it's all bullshit.

The fact is that he's going to feel like that until he works through it...and he's not going to work through it, regardless of what you say or do, until he wants to.

I honestly believe that. A remorseful WS can move mountains, hang the stars in the sky, solve world hunger...all of it, to show their BS their commitment and love, and it won't speed the BS's healing one iota.

You can set it back, slow it down, retard the process by doing the *wrong* things (mostly because it increases the BS's natural intransigence and desire to hold onto the pain as a protective mechanism), but you can't hurry it along. You can't help him decide to heal. That's all on his shoulders.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 7:25 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
forgivenotforget
Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)

CT - I'm confused. I read your profile and I saw that your H was cheating on-line and sending nude photos of himself, ended it, discovered your A and then started his own. Why is he letting you bear all of the guilt here?
I am also confused as to why you feel you should carry the burden of guilt alone when it seems you have both made terrible choices yet it seems only you are feeling remorseful.
Has your H acknowledged his part in all of this? Does he understand how hurtful his actions have been. I am in no way suggesting that this justifies your A or that your actions justify his. I just don't understand why he is "casting the first stone" so to speak.
As far as what I have needed as a BW, I agree with the others that consistency, patience and tenderness and affection are the requirements for getting me to the place where I am able to work toward R.
Thinking of you and sending you hugs.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)

Good point, fnf. CT's husband has no incentive to work on healing himself, because right now he gets to justify his own A *and* make his wife miserable in the process.

You're hooked on your own guilt, so he can be reasonably confident that you're not going anywhere, so he can take all the time and shovel out all the shit he wants while he "decides what he is going to do".

Listen to me, CT: He gave up the moral high ground when he chose to have a retaliatory affair. Don't let him lord it over your head. It isn't your fault that he didn't think through the consequences before embarking on his own stupid, KWIM?


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
forgivenotforget
Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)

My H always used this expression, "The best defense is a strong offense." I think this is what your H is doing. He is shifting the burden of guilt onto you and has cleverly covered up his own culpability in all of this. I think this may be the major reason why he refuses to go to C'ing. He knows that he will be called out on this and likes to keep you in your state of remorse while denying any wrongdoing of his own. I have to tell you, I would not let him get away with this.
Again, I am in no way justifying your A following his on-line behavior but he has his own sins to answer for and by keeping you in this guilt-ridden place, he has convinced himself and you that you are the only responsible party. This is total bullshit, IMHO.
Let me just say that there are many, many BS's on this site and I'll just bet that the % who have a revenge A is very slim indeed. We, as BS's, work very hard toward R and a revenge A is no way to succeed!
ETA: For the record the following statement by your H is total bullshit IMHO and serves him in keeping you in a constant state of guilt and shame: "He says he only did it as a result of my affair and never would have otherwise. I believe him about that."
Don't believe this, CT. If this were true, why was he the one who was sending nude photos of himself to some stranger on-line BEFORE your A?

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:32 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Cherry Tomato
Member
Member # 19255
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)

Wincing/Forgive, I know that I have let my H place all the blame on me. This is one of my biggest struggles. I don't think he would have ever cheated with the psycho nurse if I hadn't had an A. I DO believe this. As for the on-line scenario, he does not agree this was an A. He did take responsibility for this early on, but he does not see this as betrayal of our wedding vows. Right or wrong that's how he sees it. I see it now as the on-line A that it was plain and simple.

I know that I can do nothing more to help him than I'm doing right now. He has to want to heal and it doesn't appear that he does and is guilting me into taking all the responsibility. I know that I have hurt him SO DEEPLY by many of the things I did during my A...it is so very painful for me to even think about. He is still in shock I think that all this is real - it's really happening to US. We were the perfect couple with the perfect life. I want to help him, but maybe right now he just needs a little space. And maybe I do too.


FWW/FBW(me)-41; FBH/FWH(him)-42; DDay 12/25/07; M 15 yrs, 1 DD - 11
Separated 8/6/08; H moved back home 1/6/09; In R 4/24/09
"You and I’ll ride tonight till the past is out of sight. We don't have to look back now." ----Puddle of Mudd

Posts: 1128 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Wonderful New Happy Place
forgivenotforget
Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)

I know that I have let my H place all the blame on me. This is one of my biggest struggles.

CT - I'm glad you have an IC'ing session this week. I do hope you will work with your C on the quote above. If you can find out why you are allowing this and work to change the dynamics in your M, possibly your H will start to see that he has his own sins to account for and not make this all about your A.
Also, I absolutely believe that sending nude photos of yourself to someone, not to mention what kind of communications they were conducting during this time, is a blatant form of infidelity and an absolute betrayal of your M vows. Just because he doesn't agree doesn't make it so.
(((CT)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
pebbles
Member
Member # 13870
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)

Cherry Tomato

You are a BS and you do not have to tolerate his A. It doesn't matter who had the A first or who was found out first. What he did before discovering your A is also an A.

Do not stay in the marriage when there is an A going on. 180 him now so you can get your respect back. He's just using the discovery of your A to continue the same behavior he was already doing.


me: BS
Dday 7/23/05
This former rock has been blasted into a mound of pebbles.

Posts: 1283 | Registered: Mar 2007
forgivenotforget
Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)

CT - Pebbles said exactly what I was thinking - You are the BS now and a FWS - stress on FORMER! You are NC and have been since your d-day. Your H on the other hand is a CURRENT WS who is still keeping contact with the OW. Totally unacceptable.
I keep thinking about all the double standards in your relationship.
He expects you to go NC immediately and you do - yet he gets to continue contact.
He said, "Bottom line...you f*cked another man at the same time you were f*cking me" and acts wounded and enraged YET he started his A one year into yours and was f*ing another woman at the same time he was f*ing you.
He wants you to be remorseful, admit guilt, feel shame, take the blame for his A YET he shows no remorse for his A, admits no guilt and places all the blame on you for his behavior.
It is the classic double standard in our society where the men are praised and stroked by each other for womanizing while women are called whores for the very same behavior.
You are being punished daily it seems for your A and yet he is not being punished but instead justifies the unjustifiable.
Your H is pushing the double standard to the max, IMO and something needs to happen to change this dynamic. You must hold him accountable for his choice to have an A by continuing contact with this OW.
My H had an 8 year long-term A and it killed me. I have never known such hurt, pain and sadness in my life. Maybe using your H's logic, I am also entitled to my own A. I have been asked, Do you ever think about having an A? I will tell you in absolute terms there is no way in hell that I would do that. I want my M to work (crazy as this may seem) and there would be no way we could R if I were to engage in an A.
If your H wants the M to work, then he had better go NC immediately and start to show some remorse and compassion for your pain.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 11:22 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
HurtingInDenver
Member
Member # 15974
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)

You are being punished daily it seems for your A and yet he is not being punished but instead justifies the unjustifiable.
Your H is pushing the double standard to the max, IMO and something needs to happen to change this dynamic.

I agree 100%. Yes, you made a big mistake. But that doesn't give him a "get-out-of-jail-free" card.

You said you believe him that he wouldn't of had his A if you weren't already invloved in yours. Do you think this makes his A justified? If yes, then what if you weren't having an A and he just wasn't happy in the M? Does that justify his A? Of course not. Marriage isn't a tit-for-tat relationship. It's not about revenge or evening the score; it's about compassion and forgiveness.

Yes, he has a right to be angry and hurt and even maybe despise you for awhile. But he doesn't have the right to have a revenge A, and he doesn't have the right to hold this over your head for the rest of your life. That's not a marriage, that's servitude.

If you are feeling quilty about your A and that is why you are tolerating his behavior (continued A & unremorsefulness) just think about this fact: The folks who have posted to you here are all BHs! We've all thought some pretty bad things at some point or another about our WSs. Yet, we ALL are telling you that his revenge A and unremorsefulness is not OK.


I'm flat out spent, this woman she been driving me to tears
This woman so crazy, I swear I ain't going to touch another one for years -B.Dylan


Posts: 781 | Registered: Aug 2007
Cherry Tomato
Member
Member # 19255
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

Pebbles/Forgive/Hurting, thank you all for you comments. Yes, we both made terrible choices and I do think part of my H's problem is guilt, but he won't admit it. He does hold my A over my head and I have let him do this. I know I need to change this behaviour, but it's very hard at the same time I'm fighting to hold it all together. And I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle sometimes. He does have a double standard and no it's not right. It's just very hard for me to let him go when I know it's probably best for me. Being a mad-hatter truly sucks cuz you have both sets of emotions to try to manage. I cheated first so that (in his eyes) makes me the "bad guy" and the cause of it all. No he's not thinking rationally at all...I have a hard time doing this myself some days. I know what I need to do...just need the strength to do it.


FWW/FBW(me)-41; FBH/FWH(him)-42; DDay 12/25/07; M 15 yrs, 1 DD - 11
Separated 8/6/08; H moved back home 1/6/09; In R 4/24/09
"You and I’ll ride tonight till the past is out of sight. We don't have to look back now." ----Puddle of Mudd

Posts: 1128 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Wonderful New Happy Place
HurtingInDenver
Member
Member # 15974
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

((((((CT))))))

I know it's hard trying to hold on and not legt go. Nobody here wanted to end up in this position. Eventually you'll have to lay down the guilt though and do what is healthiest for you and your kids.

Good luck and God bless.

(((((CT))))))


I'm flat out spent, this woman she been driving me to tears
This woman so crazy, I swear I ain't going to touch another one for years -B.Dylan


Posts: 781 | Registered: Aug 2007
capri
Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, July 16th (Wednesday)

CT, seconding, thirding, fourthing what everyone else has said. And what he did first is WAYYY outside the bounds of marriage. Sending nude photos of yourself to another woman (and I bet he was lying to you about it) is cheating.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
Meeko
Member
Member # 19006
Sad  Posted: 9:34 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

I am in desperate need of help…advice…

My BH and I are working hard at reconciling…it is what I want more than anything in the world….the past few days have been so tough….My BH tells me that he cant think of being with out me but doesn’t know if he can move forward. He feels like he is stuck….BH says he loves me more than anything but cant get past what I did (can't get away from the mind movies). I know that I hurt him so bad and I hate myself for doing that and wish everyday I could go back and change it all….

I am not sure what my question is….just looking for advice or insight that I can share with him. I know that it could very well be that he wont be able to recover from this and I will lose him….but I have to hold out hope that we can make it through this….that we are truly meant to be together….it is what I want so much….I am crying as I am writing this because I am so afraid….he feels so hopeless….I can’t nor will I allow myself to feel that….I love him too much to not try and fight…..


FWW (me)- 38
BS - 41
M - 14yrs
Kids - (2) DD - 5 DS - 11

D-Day 11-18-07
D-Day (2) 4-2-08 (finally told the full story)

Forgiveness does not change the past, but it does enlarge the future. ~Paul Boese


Posts: 112 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Land of the Mouse
Calon Lan
Member
Member # 19684
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Meeko. I remember telling my FWW that I couldn’t live without her but I couldn’t live with what she’d done either. This sounds like where your H is now. I realised it was an impossible place for me to be, stuck between those two truths. I had to choose.

My FWW has done this twice now but the first time she didn’t get caught, now she has seen the devestation she has caused I don’t think she will do it again. But she is on her last chance now.

I love my FWW very much. I want her in my life so much. After d-day I hated myself for that, I felt that my need for her was taking away my self respect. I felt I should man-up and make her take the full consequences of her actions.

Well, after about three or four months I came to a point where I realised I was prepared to kick her out. I didn’t want to, but I had come to a point where I realised I could. I was no longer needing her, I had some control back. I could now make choices. And I have made choices.

I’ve been betrayed before, by my first serious girlfriend and by my second, who was also my fiancée. So I no longer believe in fairy tales. I could end this marriage, I could look for that special girl who will treasure me and always be faithful. But why bother? Experience has taught me that bad things happen. Why take a chance on starting again, it could happen to me again in ten years in another relationship.

Would I love another woman more than my FWW? No.
Will the scars and the pain go away if I leave my FWW? No.
Will my kids benefit from having a part time dad? No.
Will my FWW do this to me again? There are no guarantees, but I don’t think so.

For me, the logical thing to do is to stay, to put the past in the past and build a better future. It is right for me. It’s damn hard work, but it’s right for me.

As a BS we have horrible choices to make. We shouldn’t be I n a position where we have to make these choices but we are where we are.

My choice is to stay with the woman I love. I feel there is no one more perfect for me than my FWW and no one more perfect for her than me. So I hope we will live together always. Albeit with our pain and our scars.

[This message edited by Calon Lan at 11:00 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]


Together 22 years married 15, two wonderful sons.
Me - 47, Wife - 41, two affairs with same OM. Who knows what else.
d day 24/01/2008


Posts: 431 | Registered: May 2008 | From: UK
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Meeko,

I think this is something that a lot of BS's go through. I know I did. All you can do is be there for him. Ask him what he needs from you. If he can't answer, just keep doing what you can.

For me it would play out with a lot of arguing in my head. She'd tell me she loved me, and I would instantly think of some smartass comment about how she had a funny way of showing it, etc.

Just hold on, help him when you can, and continue to work on yourself


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 35354 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
unarmbears
Member
Member # 7480
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Meeko, It's been over 3 years since my fWH and my last d-day. I know I felt much the same way your H did for about a year. Hated what he did, loved him, didn't know if I could live with him.

I think the key is consistency and commitment.

Eventually your BS will have to come to some sort of acceptance that "yes, this did happen" and denying it does not make you feel any better.

This is all part of the grieving process. First we grieve the loss of the marriage and fear the loss of the WS. When those fears subside (hardworking WS in R) then it is the fear that we may not be able to accept this person back after what they have done.

This healing process takes several years, and the survival of the marriage is kind of in the BS hands for a while there.

It really has only been 3 months since the full truth, so he will be reeling for a while longer, probably up to a year, maybe more.


FBS-Me, 60
FWH-Him, 55
2 Sons 25 and 30
2 Daughters 28, 24 And 3 darling grandchildren!
"Love is an impulsive act, it's free. It's the story we tell about it afterward that's our poverty." Byron Katie

Posts: 4886 | Registered: Jun 2005 | From: From where the trees lean east...
acreswild
Member
Member # 19371
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Meeko...

Calonlan hits the nail right on the head.,. and

For me it would play out with a lot of arguing in my head. She'd tell me she loved me, and I would instantly think of some smartass comment about how she had a funny way of showing it, etc.


I even said that WW should be glad that I didnt love her in the same way....

I would never have imagined how hard this is and how devastated I feel..Your H is likley in the very same place...so be truthful, and supportive.. dont take his current pain lightly... it is an enormous burden... make it lighter in any way you can... good luck


BS-Me-59
WW- Her-59
Married 36 years
PA/EA/?A...depends on definition....
She finally admitted an old 3-4 year affair ( over 25 years ago) followed by a very sporadic on-again off-again 8 year PA followed by lengthy EA that would likely still be

Posts: 409 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Chicago
Meeko
Member
Member # 19006
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Thank you for all of your responses….I am not taking this lightly…I am fighting with everything I got and more. I do not nor expect him to just hurry up and recover from this…I know that it is going to take time….I just get worried that he wont want to take the time….I tell him that we have to just go day by day…not to look to far into the future because it can be overwhelming. I also try and point out how far we have come and that what he is feeling is normal….that everything is still very raw and that we are going to have good days and bad days….there are definitely more good ones then bad ones now.


FWW (me)- 38
BS - 41
M - 14yrs
Kids - (2) DD - 5 DS - 11

D-Day 11-18-07
D-Day (2) 4-2-08 (finally told the full story)

Forgiveness does not change the past, but it does enlarge the future. ~Paul Boese


Posts: 112 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Land of the Mouse
whoami?
Member
Member # 19171
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

I'm just peeking my head in here--- Meeko, your situation feels a lot like mine. And I just wanted to thank Calonlan for the kind words and the hopefulness that it makes me feel. :) You guys are awesome.


WS (Me) 28
BS (Him) 30
S-3, S-1
**The best musicians learn to trust that the music they will ultimately make is more important than today's wrong notes."
-Forgiving Ourselves

Posts: 128 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Under a Rock
perrycogirl
Member
Member # 20227
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, August 2nd (Saturday)

I don't know how to help my husband become less selfish and stop doing things that deliberately hurt my feelings or go against reconciliation. Yes, he wants to work on our marriage. Yes, he's in IC. We did marriage counseling about a year ago. Right now I'm not ready to go back to MC yet. I'm not sure my H is willing to go the exta mile and make things work. I'd like some suggestions on reading material for him. I was also wondering about inviting him to this site. He's not real receptive to self help and opening up - which I think is a key to fixing yourself.

Your suggestions, please.


Married 22 years
Me: BS 40's
Him: WH 40's
DS: 15
DDay#1 4/2002 (4 mo PA)
DDay#2 11/2006 (admitted to 1.5 yr PA) - almost 2 years later admitted it actually started 10 years earlier. They split for while and reconnected years later.

Posts: 340 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: small town in central PA
perrycogirl
Member
Member # 20227
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, August 2nd (Saturday)

Sorry, I posted this in the wrong section


Married 22 years
Me: BS 40's
Him: WH 40's
DS: 15
DDay#1 4/2002 (4 mo PA)
DDay#2 11/2006 (admitted to 1.5 yr PA) - almost 2 years later admitted it actually started 10 years earlier. They split for while and reconnected years later.

Posts: 340 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: small town in central PA
peachy40
Member
Member # 20108
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, August 4th (Monday)

My WS has been really good at answering my questions, except in the area of the physical aspect of the affair. I would love to get insight from wayward spouses on how they felt.

His A was an EA for 10 months before it became a PA. Then the EA/PA lasted another 7 months or so. Even though our R is going well, I am having a hard time moving past the visions in my head of the 2 of them together.

When we discuss this, he claims that he cannot remember many of the 'details' of their physical A. When I ask about their first kiss, the first time they had sex...he tells me he cannot remember details..he only remembers the intense guilt and how terrible he felt afterward. He said the sex was never good or memorable, because he was always worried about getting caught. Then, afterward, the guilt was so overwhelming, that he tried to block the incident immediately just to cope. Yet...he kept going back for more. If it was so bad, why not stop?

I am not quite sure why I have this need for details. I think I feel that by not telling me everything I want to know, I still do not have full disclosure.

Can there really be details that he can't remember? He also gets very uncomfortable when I bring this topic up. Should I push him to remember? He is in IC, perhaps I should ask him to bring it up there? The PA began 11/07, so it wasn't THAT long ago. Can you really 'block' memories like that? And if it was so bad at the time, why would you keep going back? His answer is that he doesn't know.

Thoughts from anyone would be appreciated!

[This message edited by peachy40 at 11:18 AM, August 4th (Monday)]


Status: Happily Reconciled!
Me: BS 40
Him: FWS 42
Together: 19 years; Married: 17 years
Beautiful daughter: 15
Amazing son: 13
Affair: 18month EA; last 6 month PA w/ former close friend and former neighbor (we have moved)

Posts: 132 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Atlanta
bear
Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, August 4th (Monday)

Hi Peachy,

If you want a significant response to your question you might consider posting it under 'BS Questions for WSs', but I'll try to give it a whirl while I'm here.

I'd say that your WH simply doesn't want top talk about the details of his sexual behavior with his xOW. Thsi is particularly difficult if your R is going well. Perhaps there will be a time in the future that talking about intimate details will be less of a hurdle, but he's probably not wanting to cause you worse triggers than you already have. Obviously, I don't knbow either one of you, so that's how i would feel.

My BW has never asked me for specific details about sexual behavior, and, frankly, that's fine with me. The sex between xOMW and me was passionate and intense like it was when I was first married. It would be hard to discuss that kind of behavior without having my BW draw comparisons between that behavior and our current married sexual relationship. It's very different.

Why is it so important that you know the details? Are you sure you really want to know? If you're looking for some validation that your sexual appeal to your WH is greater than the past appeal of xOW, you might be opening up a wound that won't be what either of you want. I'd suggest you accept his 'want' to R with you as his statement of your sexual appeal to him. Healthy relationships aren't all about the sexual act itself.

My guess is that your WH has very vivid memories of his sexual relationship with xOW. I know I do. If he's truly remorseful, he probably doesn't want to relive it with you. It would be painful and/or embarrassing for him, too.

Have you told him you can't get closure? If you've told him that you can't get past the visions of them together, then I'd bet he's not too sure he wants to go any further.

My take.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, August 4th (Monday)

I'd suggest you accept his 'want' to R with you as his statement of your sexual appeal to him. Healthy relationships aren't all about the sexual act itself.

Nope. He 'wanted' the marriage (which is why he had an affair, instead of getting divorced), and that didn't keep him faithful. Physical presence in the relationship has no guaranteed correlation to sexual attraction -- it might just mean that he doesn't want to lose his financial investments.

He needs to answer these questions point blank.

My guess is that your WH has very vivid memories of his sexual relationship with xOW. I know I do. If he's truly remorseful, he probably doesn't want to relive it with you. It would be painful and/or embarrassing for him, too.

And this is the best reason to pin him down and force him to answer in as vivid and degrading detail as you can stomach. The powerful shaming impulse at verbalizing his behavior will to a long way to knocking the gilding off the lily of secret, illicit sex.

The more you make him talk about it, the less those memories become his favorite masturbation fantasies and the more they reflect the horrible, shameful and degrading reality that they are.

I'm a big fan of the notion that all "positive" memories associated with affairs should be burnt to the waterline whenever possible. Bringing those memories out into the light of day has an odd way of doing just that.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
peachy40
Member
Member # 20108
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, August 5th (Tuesday)

I guess I feel like knowing EVERY detail, of every moment of the A, will help me understand why he cheated, and will make me feel like there are no more secrets.

We just got back from MC, where we discussed this topic. Our therapist thinks that there is no benefit for me to focus on one particular day of the A, and obsess about it. She thinks that as long as he has been open about all of the other details I have asked him about, that I should start thinking about why the details of their first kiss are so important to me. She also thinks it is possible that he has 'blocked' the details from his memory, because the memory of his feeling from that day (despair, desperation, shame, disguist, panic, guilt, etc), overshadow the actual details of the day.

I also think this upsets me, because this is the first memory he has not clearly remembered. Man..if that was me, and I just committed adultery for the first time, I think I would remember every detail! I just don't get it! It is a pretty pivotal moment in your life! Like on 9/11...doesn't everyone remember where they were, and what they were doing on that horrible morning?


Status: Happily Reconciled!
Me: BS 40
Him: FWS 42
Together: 19 years; Married: 17 years
Beautiful daughter: 15
Amazing son: 13
Affair: 18month EA; last 6 month PA w/ former close friend and former neighbor (we have moved)

Posts: 132 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Atlanta
acreswild
Member
Member # 19371
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, August 5th (Tuesday)

Peachy,

I also struggle with my WW's selective memory... these A's are exciting, long lasting, filled with sexual tension, risk etc.... I would think that anybody normal would be bale to recall a hell of a lot about it..

yes, there is repression.. but if its still active when found out, or still part of communication patterns.. its still alive..

I always wonder whether their memories were better the day before they were outed...

I still want details because it tells me about the tone and tenor of the relationships, which gives me a clue about what she got our of it, and maybe why it persisted so long..I want pictures and sound..esp since it appears that shebehaved as a totally different person with OM...so WTF?? and WHY?


BS-Me-59
WW- Her-59
Married 36 years
PA/EA/?A...depends on definition....
She finally admitted an old 3-4 year affair ( over 25 years ago) followed by a very sporadic on-again off-again 8 year PA followed by lengthy EA that would likely still be

Posts: 409 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Chicago
hollywood_mjl
Member
Member # 16664
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, August 8th (Friday)

Meeko,

Keep in mind too that you trickle truthed. This April was probably harder on him than the original D-day. He has to start all over again, as do you. I would ensure him that you are telling the truth by going above and beyond. Take a lie detector test, etc. Whatever it takes. I had the idea to have my WS sign to guarantee he never cheat on me again, or else i get xx% alimony or something like that.
Also, time and consistancy from you is what is needed.
Share your dreams with him, be silly with him, send him love letters (w/o sorry's and mention of the A). Good luck.


Eh, he had an Affair, I left him...and I'm happy...life goes on.

Posts: 1234 | Registered: Oct 2007
justmarried712
New Member
Member # 20586
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, August 19th (Tuesday)

These questions is more for the WS.
How did you deal with having to talk about the A, and go over it again and again?

Did it make you want to give up?
When you got angry were you angry at your spouse or at the situation?
What did you do to try and rebuild trust after all of the lies?

For other BS
Did you ask the same questions over and over again day after day.. and keep notes in your head to find more lies?
How did you rebuild trust after all of the lying?
What I mean is what types of things did you and your WS do to help you to trust them again


Life can only be understood backwards, but must be lived forwards..

Posts: 49 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Missouri
SoDisappointed
Member
Member # 19609
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, August 19th (Tuesday)

JM712, I did initially ask the same questions about a billion times, in the month or so after D-day. I just needed to keep hearing the answers I guess. I did reach a point a couple of mths after D-day where I just stopped asking a lot of the time, too much energy wasted and didn't know what to ask. Now 7 mths post D-day and I still come up with the odd question though I think they are becoming more intense and probing than my previous ones...I think I am just getting stronger and more able to deal with more hurt.


DDay-Feb08
Divorced

Oh, my friend, it's not what they take away from you that counts. It's what you do with what you have left. ~Hubert Humphrey


Posts: 565 | Registered: May 2008
fool_me_once
Member
Member # 20232
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, August 19th (Tuesday)

JM712, I had a few reasons to ask the same questions repeatedly. First off, I didn't feel like I had the full truth and thought it might jog his memory the more I asked. Also, I kept asking the same question over and over until the answers stopped hurting as much. I had to let my anger run its own course and while everything was new, the answers were still so painful but I needed to face them. Even if it meant facing the same thing time and time again. It still hurts, but I think I've desensitized myself enough that I can start working on healing.


BS(Me) 31
FWS 29
DD 4
DD 2
D-day: 7/2/08
Trying R

Posts: 257 | Registered: Jul 2008
fortysixandtwo
Member
Member # 20107
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, October 8th (Wednesday)

This is a question for BHs.

When my boyfriend is having a bad time, when I know he's thinking about the affairs, I always ask him if he wants to talk about it and he always says no. Sometimes, we do talk about it anyway, and it always ends with him lashing out and me in tears. When he's going through some tough emotions, I really feel at a loss for what I can do to help him. So, to you BHs out there, what were some ways that you dealt with the bad memories or difficult times and what were some things that your wife did for you that really helped?


Me (WGF)-22
Him (BBF)-23
Together-3 Years
D-Day 1: 12/25/07
D-Day 2: 5/22/08
Two Affairs
Status: Painful Self-Analysis, steely determination and a generous and loving heart.

"All that we are is the result of what we have thought" -Buddha


Posts: 106 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: The Beginning
hurts
Member
Member # 9444
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, October 8th (Wednesday)

If he is lashing out and hurting, it is because he is hurting inside. I get this point on so many levels. I have just cycled to internalizing it so not to be lashing out as often. But much of mine is because I can't really approach W.

If I was to offer any advice, it would be this. When he is down, put on your armor, steel your nerves and bear the load. I would bet that if he can just get it unloaded it would help. Once tha anger is down, try to set the communications. It might be a better idea to do this in MC.

I get how hard this is. I would assume that you have beaten yourself up a bit over this. But you need to let him get it out. (as long as there is no threat of physical). I know that for me, I want to deal with this with her, as it involves her. But that is unavailable to me. One thing that I do not want to deal with from her is her anger. It shuts me down like a rock.

It is a process, I hope that you guys can find a good path to take. He is hurt and he needs to release it somehow. I again caution about letting it get physical, protect yourself from that. But try to understand that his pain is intense and his esteem is more than likely nonexistant.

Sending you guys my thoughts and prayers for a peaceful path. And also letting you know that it is so awesome to try and find that path to help him. Kudos.


Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"
Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
--- Charles M. Schulz
SO if I check my pulse, and it is not there, do I get the day off?

Posts: 8381 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: At Home
hurt789
Member
Member # 20937
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, October 8th (Wednesday)

Any WS care to comment, I would love the feedback...

I hear, everytime we speak about the A, "It didnt mean anything, She didnt mean anything, I was just out to get what I wanted, I was a selfish bastard!"

One, did any of you feel the same way about your A?

Two, I am afraid he is telling himself this so his feelings for her wont get in our way of R. How hard was it for any of you to get over the feelings you had for your OP. I know the feelings had during the A are strong and exciting, but did they change after D-Day?

Thanks


BS 40
WS 43
MARRIED 20
TOGATHER 22
1 PERFECT DAUGHTER
DDAY7/13/08
LTA - ALWAYS


Posts: 240 | Registered: Sep 2008
onedayattatime
Member
Member # 17373
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, October 14th (Tuesday)

Hi - I was reading aways back on this thread where there was discussion about a survey that spouses were filling out to help with communication - I was wondering if anyone could please tell me where I can find this survey?

Thanks!


Me: BS, 32
Him: FWH, 31
M: 12/1996
D-Day: 10/11/07 WH asked for D, one week after meeting OW; 10/17/07 WH told me about OW;
R: 10/24/07 3 weeks after he met OW
"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong."

Posts: 62 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Michigan
wishingitwasnt
Member
Member # 20380
Default  Posted: 10:46 PM, October 14th (Tuesday)

Fortysixandtwo:

For me, physical contact. Let me cry and ask no questions. The hurt is deep, and personal. Just hold me and ride it out. Does it suck for you? Do you feel bad? Tough. You should. I’m trying to survive this. Just respect that, and be there for me. Not a lot of fun? Well, it isn’t for me, either


Posts: 2760 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: IA
tractorgirl
Member
Member # 21226
Default  Posted: 11:05 PM, October 16th (Thursday)

I'm responding to bear (or whoever) who says that BS should not ask too many Q's about the sex because it might make them hurt more. I don't believe this. I'm not saying you have to go on and on about how mind-blowing it was, but you do have to answer every question honestly. Otherwise you and the OW still have secrets together. I can stand the truth, I just can't take my H and another woman having secrets. Without total honesty, I'd skip the R and head to D. If your BS doesn't ask, well lucky you...


BS=me, late 30's
FWH=him, early 40's
Married 15 years
OW=19 yrs old
2 boys: 12 & 9, wonderful!!
Reconciling

Posts: 1368 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: nebraska
Copeland
Member
Member # 21005
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, October 17th (Friday)

Just found this thread...I would like to know about BS who didn't want to work on the R. Didn't have any interest in it. Did you evolve into being able to put in the work? I'm sure its hard to look at your betrayer as somebody appealing, but if we're trying...did you ever decide to work at it despite how you felt?

On a related note: In my relationship my BGF broke up with me and says she can now do whatever she wants (i.e. dating) if she chooses. I still want to continue work on the R and am willing to carry that by myself for now. Am I being naive/stupid? We still share the same home and are best friends...I think the world of her.


Male 49-No longer defining myself by fidelity roles...been both. Time for a new start.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."-Leonard Cohen

Posts: 854 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Midwest
findingcomfort
New Member
Member # 21364
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, October 23rd (Thursday)

I have a question for BS's. If you had your choice, would you rather never know about your WS's A? If they were able to end it and you never knew, would you choose it, if you could? Or would you rather know, either way?

Thanks in advance for your honesty.


Posts: 27 | Registered: Oct 2008
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, October 23rd (Thursday)

Findingcomfort,

First of all, welcome

My full story is in my profile. In a way I am somewhat qualified to answer your question. My wife had her first A in 1999. After it ended, she confessed it to her priest who told her to never tell me, and work on herself. Well, she didn't tell me, and didn't work on the issues she had. This left herripe for another A. In our case, another 4 A's.

So, I found out that many years of my marriage were tainted. On top of that, I live with the knowledge that she had to go through this alone, and was used by these OM.

So my answer is no, I do not wish she'd dealt with it on her own and never told me. A marriage should be a partnership of equals. Without knowledge, we were not equals.

Fell free to PM me if you like


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 35354 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Copeland
Member
Member # 21005
Concerned  Posted: 1:10 PM, October 25th (Saturday)

Okay, long story, but here's my sitch & my question:
My BGF & I have lived together 6 years. We were planning on getting married this year, but then I did my EA in June-July of this year and that shot that down the drain. We still live together. We are still best friends. We are so well suited to each other-same sense of humor-tastes in most everything. We for the most part really love to be in each other's company. I can talk to her about anything (although up until now my big problem has been editing myself and witholding my feelings ) Anyway, after D-Day in July and some arguments she said "It's over" She says she thinks of herself as single and although she's not actively seeking another relationship she feels like there is no reason to not start one if somebody interesting comes along. I really want to pursue the R. I'm working really hard on my stuff in IC and up until last week we were going to CC, but now she says she's tired of that. Isn't getting anything out of it. Doesn't see the point. I don't condider myself single. I consider myself committed to her and comitted to working on the R, even if its just me at the momment. She says working on the R with me doesn't interest her in the least. Friendship yes. Realtionship (romantic, couple) no.

So my question is: are there any BS's out there that found this a part of their process? I mean, aside from the betrayal (which I'm not trying to minimize) we have all the foundations of a good strong R. I just wonder. I worry because I don't want to lose her of course. I don't want her to make herself available to others and then I lose that precious element of time. The time it takes for her to heal and then maybe be able to see me as somebody she could love and trust again.

Please know that I'm putting everything I can into this. I'm not expecting something to happen magically. I just wonder about what others have experienced. I'm looking for hope I guess...


Male 49-No longer defining myself by fidelity roles...been both. Time for a new start.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."-Leonard Cohen

Posts: 854 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Midwest
Copeland
Member
Member # 21005
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, October 26th (Sunday)

Any BS that can relate to my above...


Male 49-No longer defining myself by fidelity roles...been both. Time for a new start.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."-Leonard Cohen

Posts: 854 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Midwest
hurts
Member
Member # 9444
Default  Posted: 12:07 AM, October 27th (Monday)

Copeland - hey man, what I would say is to just stay at it. Do all you can to make it a workable deal. She on that roller coaster and is also trying to find her ground.

Luck to you man


Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"
Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
--- Charles M. Schulz
SO if I check my pulse, and it is not there, do I get the day off?

Posts: 8381 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: At Home
Copeland
Member
Member # 21005
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, October 27th (Monday)

Thanks hurts...I just need that little push in the back every now and then to keep going...day after day is so hard as we all know...so tired sometimes. So scared others. And some actual flashes of peace now and then...


Male 49-No longer defining myself by fidelity roles...been both. Time for a new start.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."-Leonard Cohen

Posts: 854 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Midwest
hurts
Member
Member # 9444
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, October 27th (Monday)

HEy, I'll tell you what. It is the hope and desire for those flashes that can keep you going. I hope that they increase in frequency. I tend to believe that if you increase the effort to make it better, and do all that is possible, then it will get better as time goes by. But at the same time you have to remember that time onlt travels at a set speed, and that is generally too slow for our desires.


Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"
Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
--- Charles M. Schulz
SO if I check my pulse, and it is not there, do I get the day off?

Posts: 8381 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: At Home
trying@heal
New Member
Member # 21266
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, October 27th (Monday)

Copeland

I can tell you I went back and forth for a couple of weeks about whether I should or shouldn't leave. If he could be single why couldn't I. What it came down to was who I am. I love my husband and I do not believe two wrongs make a right. With that being said, if she does truly love you she will heal with time. You might want to think about getting "The Love Dare" book and 100% commit with everything you have to following it. Even if you are not a spiritual person it can help.


It is what it is, now choose to make the best of it.

Posts: 26 | Registered: Oct 2008
sadskittles
Member
Member # 21232
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, October 27th (Monday)

I question for the BS...

Did you lose any friendships over your S infidelity, because you decided to stay with that you S?

If so, how did you deal with it?

My BF and I are committed to R, but unfortuntely all of my friends know about the A, because the OM in our circle of friends. He is spreading lies and half truths about the A and people are making judgements of me and his decision to work things out with me. We believe that our relationship is only ours business and we have chosen not to discuss what we are going through with our friends. We only talk to a few select family members.


Moving on... without him and stronger for it.

Posts: 359 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Wisconsin
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, October 27th (Monday)

ss,

If someone will end your friendship on someone else's word, thyet weren't a friend to begin with. It's your right to discuss your relationship with whomever you choose. You don't have to justify anything to anyone else. It may be time to look for some new friends.

We did lose some friends, but it wasn't a huge loss. Only friends of the relationship


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 35354 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
sadskittles
Member
Member # 21232
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, October 27th (Monday)

It is just extremely painful for him, because his best friend started a fight with him on Saturday that ended up getting physical (fueled by alcohol). He was supposed to be his best friend and be supportive of him no matter what he decided to do.

My BF has resolved to not be friends with him anymore, but I feel extremely guilty because my A caused them to not be friends anymore.

My BF is going through enough right now... this isn't helping his mental condition at all.


Moving on... without him and stronger for it.

Posts: 359 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Wisconsin
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, October 27th (Monday)

SS,
I know it's hard. Give them a little time. If he's a true friend, they'll work it out. If not, it's better to find out now than when you really need him


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 35354 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
DesertLotus
Member
Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, October 27th (Monday)

(((Copeland)))

She says she thinks of herself as single and although she's not actively seeking another relationship she feels like there is no reason to not start one if somebody interesting comes along....

So my question is: are there any BS's out there that found this a part of their process?

No, I never considered myself single - I would not expect to continue to live with my husband if I had.

Reconciliation is a gift, one that no one is obligated to offer. In the same light, you are not obligated to continue to live with your (ex?) girlfriend while she dates whomever. You may not be able to reconcile (that is up to her) however, you don't have to stand by and support her while she plays single either. I think you have a right to clarify your living situation one way or the other.

If she wants to be single, then let her do so without you. Allowing her to abuse the situation won't lead to R, IMO. Tell her if she wants to salvage your relationship, she'll have to forgo the single life. Otherwise, I fear she'll just take advantage of you. I don't recommend agreeing to her terms, even if she permits you to date as well. Living together and dating other people is a recipe for disaster IMO.

(((sadskittles)))

I question for the BS...
Did you lose any friendships over your S infidelity, because you decided to stay with that you S?

No. We've been very fortunate in our choice of friendships, all of our friends support our R. I'm so sorry for you both. I agree with wifehad5, you don't have to justify your decision to R (nor should your husband). Best wishes.


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
sadskittles
Member
Member # 21232
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, October 27th (Monday)

Thank you both for your replies. I really appreciate them.

I am trying hard not to blame myself for it... it is just really hard not to.


Moving on... without him and stronger for it.

Posts: 359 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Wisconsin
lumpy
Member
Member # 20121
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, October 28th (Tuesday)

[This message edited by lumpy at 9:12 AM, October 28th (Tuesday)]


delete me

Posts: 206 | Registered: Jul 2008
Monkey
Member
Member # 20381
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, November 6th (Thursday)

I never considered myself single either after I found out about my FWH's affair. I remember desperately wanting to hold on to him, I remember the agony of thinking that he may want to be with the OW and leave me. I told him immediately that I would be there for him if he chose me over his AP.

We are now in R but I find that I sometimes think of having a revenge affair, not because I am angry but because I feel that we are now so unequal. He's the bad guy and I'm the good guy. I know this is insane and of course I will never do it but I do feel vulnerable to other male attention. My self-confidence has taken a beating and some attention seems an attractive prospect.


Me BS 36
Him FWH 38
First child born 2012
Married since Sept 2005
D Day 10 June 2008
5 week PA and Internet chat long distance
He just did it for sex

Posts: 62 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: UK
healingtree
Member
Member # 15467
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, November 8th (Saturday)

Copeland -

Your situation is far different from mine (blended family with 4 kids) but I can give you some input...

During my healing, there have been times where I have detached from my FWH - sometimes completely - because it was the only way I could get through the darkness I felt.

If not for the bonds we have as far as our kids are concerned, I would not have attempted R at all.

It is important that you respect your BGFs feelings, while also speaking your own truth.

You both have to be IN IT for it to be considered R...and if she doesn't want it right now, you cannot make it happen - just as a BS cannot make a WS remorseful.

Understand and hear what she is asking for, and respect it. She may change her mind later - but that is up to her.

Take care of yourself.


FBS 1st D-day 7-11-07, 2nd DDay Post-Breakup in 8-12
HIM - Doesn't Matter Anymore
The only thing we can change about the past is how we look at it.

Posts: 8329 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Here and Now
Frog
Member
Member # 19331
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, November 8th (Saturday)

sadskittles, both FWH and I have lost friends since the A and directly related to it. My friends did not stop talking to me because of his A, but let me explain. One of my friends has stopped talking to me because she doesn't want to hear anything at all about FWH, positive, negative, anything. Well, if I can't talk about FWH at all and how good things are going or how tough my life has been, then I don't really have anything to talk to her about. So she no longer calls or IM's with me and she was my best friend for 3 years. I am very sad to lose her.

FWH lost a friend just last week because of the A. He is the only friend of my FWH's that knows about the A, and the friend was a BS this summer as well. Well the friend has been acting out (about his BS situation) by dating a lot and living up the singles life. The friend made a horribly hurtful comment to my FWH last week about the A (hurtful to me) and it caused me to just have a melt down and FWH wrote off his friend right then and there.

Some of my other friends just don't talk to me anymore because they don't know how to relate to me anymore. We used to be all about families and H's and kids, and now they are afraid to ask me about those things because they don't know how to handle it if I'm having a bad day, and I'm not going to lie to them just to make them feel better.

Anyway, it is what it is. We are working on making new friends now.


Me, BS 33
Him, FWS 35 (MrFrog)
Married 10 years
DDay 12-11-07

Posts: 834 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NW US
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 3:52 AM, February 8th (Sunday)

Why aren't there more WS questions for BS??


Posts: 10967 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: North Carolina
weepy
Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, February 8th (Sunday)

Did you lose any friendships over your S infidelity, because you decided to stay with that you S?

No. But I almost lost my daughter who found it inconceivable that I would stay with her father after what he'd done... and she didn't even know details.

No one other than our counselors and one good couple (our best friends) know that I know. He has two people who knew about the affair and even encouraged it... we have not seen them since at my insistence. I don't know if he feels the loss of them or not. Personally don't care.

My take is the same position I took with my kids (and one IC who encourged me to leave). My decision (to stay) is My decision. It was based on many criteria. Some of which were far more important to me than his sexual issues. If they understand it fine, they're welcome in my life, if not, I don't need them.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
doxiemom
Member
Member # 22537
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, February 8th (Sunday)

Copeland

My STBXWH had a EA, and even tho I still love him I can not be with him again because I will never trust him. To me you have to have trust in a relationship to make it work and as I will never be able to really trust him, his words or actions there isnt any point to it.
Personally if you are still living together but she thinks herself single all you are doing is hurting yourself. Keep going to IC for yourself so you can get it all straight, but to me she or you should move out as it is a codependant relationship going on there, you still want her, she says no way im now single but you still live together. It isnt real healthy for either of you.
Good Luck


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jan 2009
ohpuhlease
Member
Member # 13679
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, February 8th (Sunday)

sadskittles,

Did you lose any friendships over your S infidelity, because you decided to stay with that you S?

If so, how did you deal with it?

Yes, a few. But you know what? I just think that is very indicative of the types of friendships they truly were then. In all honesty, I haven't even given those 'friends' a second thought.

They need to be friends both during the good and bad times.


Those who know others are intelligent. Those who know themselves are truly wise. - Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching


Posts: 5714 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: *Proudly Canadian...Eh!*
surviving1979
Member
Member # 22990
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, March 1st (Sunday)

I have wanted to get a hold of the OM W I want to let her know my wrongs and how very sorry for the pain I have caused her. I wanted to see if that is something you would have ever wanted or if you would have been able to hear.


I also know her H has had many A's and she has no idea.
I have wanted her to know so she can make the ight choice for herself


D-day is 4 months out

[This message edited by surviving1979 at 8:12 PM, March 1st (Sunday)]


I'm sorry that I hurt you
it's something I must live with everyday


Posts: 143 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: idaho
jewel123
Member
Member # 22863
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, March 2nd (Monday)

BW here.
I just wish that any of the dozen or so people that knew would have told me or at least said something that made me go "what" instead I was ignorant the whole time.
I dont know if OM W will listen since you were the OW for her husband however most of the time when the BS finds out from the OP its so the OP can get ahold of their spouse.
Sounds like you are remorseful and the things you would say at this point would show that since you are in recon with your BS. Since you are in recon I would not do anything without your husband being involved ask him what he thinks.
Hope all goes well for you and your husband sending you both strength and prayers


BS me 44
H 46 (paulie)
married 25 years (hs sweethearts)
dday 8-08
DS19
DS23
New love is the brightest, and long love is the greatest, but revived love is the tenderest thing known on earth. -Thomas Hardy
Reconciled! :)

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: MO
surviving1979
Member
Member # 22990
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, March 2nd (Monday)

I have talked to H and He thinks the letter would be good, I would love her to know the whole truth but im not sure if that is my place


I'm sorry that I hurt you
it's something I must live with everyday


Posts: 143 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: idaho
chrissy26
Member
Member # 23068
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, March 2nd (Monday)

I am a BS and I will say that I would LOVE to know the whole truth and that at this point I wouldn't care WHO told me that truth.


BS(me)- 27
WH(him)- 28
Married - 9 yrs Together- 11 yrs
Kids - D-10,D-8,S-3
Status - pending
D Day #1 - 04-02 (some girl he met while in boot camp)
D Day #2 - 12-24-07 (online EA with at least 2 sluts, maybe more)

Posts: 55 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: TN
surviving1979
Member
Member # 22990
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, March 4th (Wednesday)

And Im not saying I would want to tell her It would kill me to see her pain and anger.I just feel It is my place to let her know, So she can make the right choices for herself.



I'm sorry that I hurt you
it's something I must live with everyday


Posts: 143 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: idaho
letting_go
Member
Member # 13774
Default  Posted: 2:31 AM, March 5th (Thursday)

Write the letter. Have your H look over it and attach a note.

This is everything my W has told me about her infidelity with your H. I hope this information can fill in any pieces to the puzzle that you are missing.

Here is my contact info. Please take your time and write down any and all questions that you may have for us to answer. After the questions and answers we will be going NC with you and your H so we can work towards R.


"To change and to improve are two different things."
Anonymous. German proverb.

"It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." Frederick Douglass (1818-1895)


Posts: 3704 | Registered: Feb 2007
leftoolate
Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, March 20th (Friday)

Sort of a silly question, I guess - but I'm actually asking.

If I act like I have boundaries, will I eventually have these boundaries?

Put like this it seems so foolish .

I guess I would just like some perspective from people that are aware of their personal boundaries. If I keep working on this idea of boundaries, trying to define them, mentally and emotionally, and 'playing house', behaving like I'm already aware of my boundaries... Will I then lay these boundaries for myself at some point? The old action-cognition-emotion influencing each other?

Or in short - how do I grow myself some boundaries?

Thanks for any input - I'm rather confused ...

~L


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
OnlyLonely
Member
Member # 14326
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, March 20th (Friday)

The best way to understand boundaries is to put the shoe on the other foot.

Every choice you make reflects on your spouse as well. You go out into the world as a married woman, not a single one. YOu want the world to see you as a married woman so you act like one.

If you are in a situation that you know would upset your BH and you know that when he asks about your day you will omit or gloss over a conversation you had with someone of the opposite sex. Then you know you've crossed a boundary.

Anything you can't do in front of your spouse should not be done. or if you are the type of person who still has a problem with boundaries even in front of your spouse think of how you'd feel if he did what you were doing.

Before you make a comment to another man or agree to a solo meeting think. How would I feel if BH did this and didn't tell me about it? how would I feel if he acted like this with some woman?

Once you put your mind on how your actions look to and affect others you'll find that following those boundaries become easier and easier.


Me: BS
Him: FWH
Married: 18 years

Status: In R


Posts: 7555 | Registered: Apr 2007
jewel123
Member
Member # 22863
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, March 20th (Friday)

I think what boundaries are is simply when involved with someone other than your spouse of family members that you think first. If it is someone you work with or whatever THINK FIRST.

So there really is no pretending to have boundaries they are like walls you put them up or you dont kwim?
Your saying if you "act like" you have boundries will that mean you will eventually have boundaries? My answer is yes as soon as you put those boundaries into effect they are there. period.
Now the hard part..You have to learn there is no good reason no matter what that other person says to cross those boundaries.
After your M has been hit with infidelity those boundaries need to be strong and not crossed..
Sending you strength..Good luck


BS me 44
H 46 (paulie)
married 25 years (hs sweethearts)
dday 8-08
DS19
DS23
New love is the brightest, and long love is the greatest, but revived love is the tenderest thing known on earth. -Thomas Hardy
Reconciled! :)

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: MO
leftoolate
Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, March 22nd (Sunday)

Thanks for the advice, OnlyLonely and Jewel. You're priceless!

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
UnexpectedSong
Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, April 7th (Tuesday)

Question for the men: How is it possible for you to love your WW so much, in spite of the awful betrayal? Why do you take her back? Why don't you think she ought to be stoned to death?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
TrustedHer
Member
Member # 23328
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, April 7th (Tuesday)

US, you answered my question, I'll try to answer yours, even though in my case, it's hypothetical.

If she regains her sanity from the fog, and she begs forgiveness, as Bufffalo says "sobbing, crying, mascara dripping off her chin", here is why I would try to R:

For over 30 years, she was my best friend.
I saw her every morning, and every night, and she was beautiful. In those years she went from teenage chubby to starving thin to pregnant to thin to overweight to smoking hot. Her hair went from brunette to blond to red, from long to short. And always beautiful to me, no matter her weight, her hair color, her complexion.
I watched her bear my 3 children.
I watched her raise my kids, teach them to play baseball, counsel her friends, laugh, cry, sing, have parties, redecorate houses, volunteer.
She was my first love.

That person is gone. If I believed, truly believed, that she missed that person, and was trying with all her might to become that person again, or an improved if slightly damaged version of that person, I would gladly work to make that happen.

She may think I never loved her, never appreciated her, never cared for her, never nurtured her. And, truth to tell, I know in my heart I didn't meet all her needs. As I know she didn't meet mine.

But I did love her. I do. This is the greatest loss of my life.


Take care of yourself. There's a great future out there. It won't come to you; you have to go to it.

Posts: 4944 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Crazyville ( A little East of St. Louis)
UnexpectedSong
Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:44 AM, April 8th (Wednesday)

But I did love her. I do. This is the greatest loss of my life.

Trusted - Gosh, I can feel your love for your W and I'm so sorry that she cannot...

My H has been nothing but ... oh, more than human in his understanding and forgiveness. Even when he was fuming mad (with very good reason), I always knew he loved/loves me. I don't deserve it, but I treasure it. I have to live up to it.

I just don't understand how he can still love me with the awful things I've said to him.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Jimi40
Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, April 8th (Wednesday)

US,

Wow, the question that everyone asks me. Yes, I love my wife, always have, always will. Yes, I wanted to stone her to death, and with just cause, but could do nothing else but love and miss her while she was gone.
When she wanted to come back, in spite of my moving on (yeah right), all I could do was take her in.
The rub here, she seems to be going right back to pre S wife. And I am starting to feel like a sucker, more and more.


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
UnexpectedSong
Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, April 8th (Wednesday)

Yes, I wanted to stone her to death, and with just cause, but could do nothing else but love and miss her while she was gone

See? That's what I don't understand. I knew H was that mad, and yet in the same breath, he would still tell me he loved me...


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Shared Taxi
Member
Member # 22900
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, April 8th (Wednesday)

I am going to break the rules (I think) and respond to my wife's question. (she's Unexpected Song).

Love isn't so logical. I think there is probably a good analogy in the question, "How could my spouse cheat if he/she loved me" to "How could my spouse still love me given the things I've done and said?"

We love because we have to. I can not tell my self to not love, just as I can't tell myself to love.

I can't tell you why I love Unexpected Song. I can tell you what I love about her. But, what is it that lights that extra spark that makes me love the person? I don't know.

I love her, even when I am angry. I love my sons even when I am angry at them, just as my father loved me, even when he was angry at me.

It is because we love that this hurts so much.

I made that purposely vague--"we" includes both BS's and WS's. Many WS's hurt very deeply. Partly this is due to damage to self-image, but largely this is because they still love their BS's. Likewise, BS's hurt, get angry, lost and all that because they love their WS's.


Posts: 216 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
Carnival
Member
Member # 23447
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, April 10th (Friday)

US,
it's all a matter of personal values. If a BS puts fidelity very high in her/his values the WS would be stoned to death as far as BS is concerned (in spite of love he/she feels for the WS). But if a BS gives a substantial weight to the value of love and forgiveness she/he will take him/her back.


If you are going through hell keep going.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

Posts: 271 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: The next place
Carnival
Member
Member # 23447
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, April 10th (Friday)

of course my statement above assumed rational behaviour. If BS isn't strong enough or acts out of fear (emotional behavior) this can be reason good enough for caving in.


If you are going through hell keep going.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

Posts: 271 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: The next place
Sorrowfulfriend
Member
Member # 17103
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, April 14th (Tuesday)

Ok, I am looking for answers and I have no idea where to turn.

My wife and I have been dealing with this for 17 months. There has been no meaningful intimacy since just a few weeks after d-day (HB). How do we connect?

I am at a loss because we are still in limbo with no decision on R or D. The only thing for sure that we have not done is have any kind of intimacy. No hugging, kissing, or better, just living life without it. Is this the catch that we have to overcome for us to connect in some way so that we can begin to build a real and lasting relationship?

I have expressed this as a need and for me a Vital Love Language. I think I have been doing things right most of the time, and my BS says that I am, but we can't seem to bridge the gap between us. We are stuck, and I don't know how long I can continue to live this way..

Any advice, comments, or ideas?


(me)WS 40
BS 38 (pmlsea)
M 18 yrs
3 kids, 17,12,11

PERSISTANCE IS THE ABILITY TO MAINTAIN ACTION REGARDLESS OF YOUR FEELINGS. YOU PRESS ON EVEN WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE QUITTING


Posts: 980 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
srb1608
Member
Member # 19477
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, April 14th (Tuesday)

Sometimes it is best to start small and simple. Just some handholding during tv. Maybe feet in the lap watching tv. Some non threatening physical contact. Kisses on the hands while holding them. I know it seems stupid, but intimacy after the A is ackward and you have to start somewhere. Try these if you havent.


BS- me 37
WS -him 37
Married 13 years

Posts: 2220 | Registered: May 2008
trahi
Member
Member # 21636
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, April 14th (Tuesday)

I have expressed this as a need and for me a Vital Love Language.

Touch is probably the hardest language for a BS to speak after infidelity. What is your BS's love language? Her tank is going to be even lower than yours so if you're not speaking her love language and filling her tank, she's not going to want to fill yours first. And she shouldn't have to.

I don't know your situation, haven't read any profiles, don't know if these pertain to you personally or not. But here are some questions to think about. If they don't fit your situation, maybe they'll help someone else.

what have you done to show your BS that you desire her? I mean, really desire her. Not just that you want to have sex with her again desire, but that you realize she is the most special woman in the world to you and you don't deserve her - type of desire. What have you done to try to show her that you don't really think she's interchangeable or disposable?

what have you done to initiate intimacy outside the bedroom? do you make eye contact from across the room, send her flirty texts or emails, call her during the day to let her know you're thinking about her?

how are your communication skills, as a couple? do both of you talk about what's bothering you, or could there be hidden resentments still that haven't been talked about?

are there pre-A issues in the marriage that still need to be addressed?

how is your BS's self-esteem now compared to pre-A? do you compliment her on her appearance? tell her you'd love to see her wear (fill in the blank) because it makes you hot for her?

have you told her everything about the infidelity, or does she think she's getting trickle truth?

are you expecting your BS to make more of an effort in the intimacy department towards you than you're willing to make towards her?

Like I said, these may or may not pertain to your personal situation. But if you at the least think about some of the questions, you might figure out what's still not there between you and your BS that's creating the lack of intimacy. You know, open a new train of thought and all that. Who knows where it could lead?


me - BS


Posts: 1359 | Registered: Nov 2008
Sorrowfulfriend
Member
Member # 17103
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, April 14th (Tuesday)

You know, open a new train of thought and all that. Who knows where it could lead

That is why I am asking. I think I am speaking her love language. I am flirting a little but she does not want touch, handholding, etc... of any kind.

I have tried romantic, space, pushing for involvement, and telling her what I would like. Nothing has been able to make her feel comfortable or interested in us. She has told me she still has urges just not with me in them.

I don't know what else I can do. The A happened 6+ years ago, and d-day was 17 months ago. I have been honest and open, provided the information she wanted and some I am sure she didn't. I have tried to provide her with good feelings for me, but nothing seems to get through.

We had a rocky marriage before, during, and after the A. I know that a lot of what she feels is related to the feelings of "Why now?" Why do I suddenly see things so differently? Why do you want me now when for so long I wasn't good enough?

I have tried to answer these for her to the best of my ability. I have been urging her to seek IC again, and she has made an appointment. That is a blessing but as she described to me, she has been putting it off because she doesn't feel that her feelings are going to change towards me...

So that is in a small way where we are at...


(me)WS 40
BS 38 (pmlsea)
M 18 yrs
3 kids, 17,12,11

PERSISTANCE IS THE ABILITY TO MAINTAIN ACTION REGARDLESS OF YOUR FEELINGS. YOU PRESS ON EVEN WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE QUITTING


Posts: 980 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, April 14th (Tuesday)

SF,

We don't talk about it very often around here (it's one of those frowned upon truths), but the fact is that most BS's aren't ready to talk seriously about R -- meaning, we may be mouthing the words, but we're not really meaning them -- until we've punished our WS's to our satisfaction.

When we've reached the level of enough, then we can think about R. Some BS's get it out of the way early and just have a revenge A. Some drag it out over months or years -- I think it depends to some extent on the circumstances of the A (how long, who it as with, how often, whether this was the first/only affair), the condition of the marriage before D-day (i.e., how many other resentments does the BS now have a license to work out on their WS) and the individual personality of the BS.

I don't know what your wife's level of enough is. If you think back over your lives together and consider her pattern of grudges or dislikes for people who might have slighted her in the past, that might give you a benchmark.

I honestly don't think the WS has any power whatsoever over getting the BS to that place of enough. You're not paying for what you're doing today (though you might, if you continue to be a dumbass past D-day). You're paying for sins already committed, and being good now doesn't uncommit those sins. The punishment of the BS doesn't seem to give time off for good behavior.

So I'm not sure that it helps to think in terms of what can be done to minimize the duration of the punishment. Instead, you're better off focusing on what you can do to survive until the punishment is over. (This is presuming the WS wants to R, of course.)

The REALLY suck part, though, is the fact that once the BS *has* reached the punishment threshold...that may be when they actually decide they don't want to R at all. I'm convinced that a solid percentage of attempted reconciliations don't have anything to do with R at all. The BS on some level only wants the marriage until they've punished their WS to their satisfaction. As soon as that point is reached, then the BS can finish throwing the marriage away.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Sorrowfulfriend
Member
Member # 17103
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, April 14th (Tuesday)

Well that about sums it up doesn't it...The really Suck part.

I hope she doesn't see things quite like that, but somedays like yesterday it sure feels like she is. I just don't know anymore that I have the stamina to weather the storm.. I have said I will do anything etc...But the longer this pursists the further out of love I feel, and the less time goes between me getting by and me overreacting to something benign..


(me)WS 40
BS 38 (pmlsea)
M 18 yrs
3 kids, 17,12,11

PERSISTANCE IS THE ABILITY TO MAINTAIN ACTION REGARDLESS OF YOUR FEELINGS. YOU PRESS ON EVEN WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE QUITTING


Posts: 980 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
trahi
Member
Member # 21636
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, April 14th (Tuesday)

This goes along with what w-a-l said about punishment. A lot of what a BS does is a test, for the WS. The WS says he/she will do anything so the BS really wants to see if they will, in fact, do anything. Will they (the WS) still love them (the BS) despite how they behave towards the WS? Or will the WS hightail it out of there (either physically, emotionally or both) and blame their desertion on the BS again?

oh, and it can be really hard to separate out the pre-A marriage issues with the A issues. I would think it'd be especially hard for your W since even though the A was over a long time ago, she didn't find out until quite a while after it was over. So it continued to be a secret and a lie between you. That changes the context of everything that went on in your marriage during that time.

Probably not helping any, huh?


me - BS


Posts: 1359 | Registered: Nov 2008
Galoot
Member
Member # 19272
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, April 14th (Tuesday)

Question for the men: How is it possible for you to love your WW so much, in spite of the awful betrayal? Why do you take her back? Why don't you think she ought to be stoned to death?

For me, I explained it to myself as a temporary insanity (i.e., fog) resulting from an infatuation stemming from a mid-life crisis. I know I may be rationalizing, but the facts fit. She now is totally remorseful in what she did, and has been fully open and transparent. She was very much a different person back then. It is only by believing that, that I can accept what she did.

The anger and resentment I felt towards FWW, well, I've transferred that to OM. While I know that FWW was just as much responsible, if not more, in instigating and perpetuating the affair, I mentally excuse her because of her mid-life crisis. However, as far as I'm concerned OM doesn't have such an excuse. He was and is just a POS philanderer, and I hate him more than I've ever felt hate before. We see each other ocaissionally in church, and he knows the anger churning just below the surface in me. He avoids my stares.


BH (me) 54 yrs.
FWW 51 yrs
DDay 2/23/08, 1 day after PA started
NC commenced 8/02/08, final dday 8/6/08

Posts: 83 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Almost Heaven
compaq23
Member
Member # 20270
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, April 14th (Tuesday)

To the BSs.....at what point did your head and your heart start to communicate the same thing?

Assuming that your head is telling you "oh my God they cheated? This has to be a dealbreaker. Keep your pride and leave" and your heart is telling you "but I love them".


Posts: 90 | Registered: Jul 2008
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, April 14th (Tuesday)

At 2.5 years since D-day, I still live with this conflict.

Some days my head wins.
Some days my heart wins.

It's never as easy as an "Aha!" moment where all the pieces click together and the future is resolved.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
trahi
Member
Member # 21636
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, April 14th (Tuesday)

Sorrowfulfriend - had another thought. since you mentioned the love languages, have you also read The Five Languages of Apology by Gary Chapman?


me - BS


Posts: 1359 | Registered: Nov 2008
Sorrowfulfriend
Member
Member # 17103
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, April 14th (Tuesday)

I have read it. I have been trying to appoligize as things come up, and by living my life now the way I want to be seen and loved. If that makes sense.


(me)WS 40
BS 38 (pmlsea)
M 18 yrs
3 kids, 17,12,11

PERSISTANCE IS THE ABILITY TO MAINTAIN ACTION REGARDLESS OF YOUR FEELINGS. YOU PRESS ON EVEN WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE QUITTING


Posts: 980 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
2Trusting35
New Member
Member # 22494
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, April 14th (Tuesday)

<<compaq23>>

My head and heart are not aligned at six months since D-Day. It changes intra-day in fact. I'm starting to think they never will be.


Me: BS
FWH: 40; A's and ONS pre-dday
DDay: Sep 2008
Kids: 3
Married 14years; Trying to R.

Posts: 27 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: GA
DoneThat
Member
Member # 23040
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, April 15th (Wednesday)

at what point did your head and your heart start to communicate the same thing?

I've done this in the past (another relationship)
I have never seen one catch up with the other. That lasted years.




Posts: 923 | Registered: Feb 2009
trahi
Member
Member # 21636
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, April 15th (Wednesday)

....at what point did your head and your heart start to communicate the same thing?

I'm only 7 months out from d-day so take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't ever expect my heart and my head to communicate the same thing. I made a conscious decision to listen to my heart, not my head, and work on R. But that's because I have 25 years invested into my relationship with WH and I'm not wanting to exchange the life I have now for one that would be in ways infinitely harder.

If WH had cheated in the early years of our relationship, in our early 20s, pre-marriage and pre-kids, that would have been the end of it.


me - BS


Posts: 1359 | Registered: Nov 2008
hurt789
Member
Member # 20937
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, April 20th (Monday)

at what point did your head and your heart start to communicate the same thing

I am still waiting - only 9 mo out. If I listen to both right now, I'd go crazy. I switch back and forth day to day. My WH says he is just glad my heart, although broken, over powers my head somedays. It gives him hope.
Be patient.


BS 40
WS 43
MARRIED 20
TOGATHER 22
1 PERFECT DAUGHTER
DDAY7/13/08
LTA - ALWAYS


Posts: 240 | Registered: Sep 2008
woundedspouse
Member
Member # 16657
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, April 24th (Friday)

surviving1979


I personally would appreciate any / all info that is given honestly and without intent to harm ( not saying you are)

All BS are different. SOme need info, some do not.

If I were to send it, I would send the apology and let her know that you are available to answer any questions that she may have about the A (s).

Then it is in her lap. I would send it registered to HER, so her WH cannot intercept.

JMHO.


Wounded


Wounded Spouse
ME - 41 BS
HIM 51 WS
Married 2/93 3 beautiful children
DDay #1 8-26-07 DDay #2 11-8-07 DDAy #3 12-23-07 DDay #?! 7-2-07
"If you ask me what I came into this world to do, I will tell you: "I came to live out loud."

Posts: 1381 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: midwest,
woundedspouse
Member
Member # 16657
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, April 24th (Friday)

SorrowfulFriend

you said:

I am at a loss because we are still in limbo with no decision on R or D. The only thing for sure that we have not done is have any kind of intimacy. No hugging, kissing, or better, just living life without it. Is this the catch that we have to overcome for us to connect in some way so that we can begin to build a real and lasting relationship?

I have expressed this as a need and for me a Vital Love Language

I guess the first question / thought that comes to mind is this:

Are you meeting her needs for R? Are you fulfilling her love language needs?

Does she have all of the answers to her questions?

How is trust being reestablished?

If the truth is out there, if you are communicating your needs, what is keeping you both from deciding to give R a chance?

Are you both in IC / MC?

R is a verb....it will not just happen. I know from our situation, that it is hard too allow yourself to be vulnerable, to share intimacy when there is such limbo. IT may take YOU putting yourself out there first, maybe many times, knowing (expecting) to be rejected. Keep trying. I know for me if I FEEL that he is giving up, I am certainly not going to put myself out there.

R is hard work..... but I still think it is worth it, but it does take 2. What are her thoughts on this? I guess the most important question I have for you is have you talked to her about this?

TAKE CARE!!!

wounded


Wounded Spouse
ME - 41 BS
HIM 51 WS
Married 2/93 3 beautiful children
DDay #1 8-26-07 DDay #2 11-8-07 DDAy #3 12-23-07 DDay #?! 7-2-07
"If you ask me what I came into this world to do, I will tell you: "I came to live out loud."

Posts: 1381 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: midwest,
retailtherapy
Member
Member # 23772
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, May 5th (Tuesday)

Hey folks!
6 weeks since D-day, I'm still on the fence about telling the OBW.

I think my BH has decided he wants to focus on our M and just let this go. He figures that the OBW will find out eventually through karma, or if OM does it again with OW. He also said he can't bare breaking up a family.

Things have been going very well in our R so far.

Will this change? Will either one of us likely want to tell her eventually once we go through all the fog and stages of healing?



D-day March 09.
NC for good April 28, 09.
A lasted just over 1 year. First EA/then PA. OM WAS my friend for years beforehand...Buh Bye..

My BH is incredible. I am so lucky to be given a 2nd chance.


Posts: 165 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Canadia- aka Canuck County
trahi
Member
Member # 21636
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, May 5th (Tuesday)

The BW deserves to be told. You're doing her, and yourself, no favors by pretending what you did doesn't effect her.

eta: even if your H doesn't want to be part of breaking up another family, that's not his decision to make. The OM and you already made the choice that could lead to that. Don't take any more choices away from this BW. Give her the information she needs now, to make her own choices.

[This message edited by trahi at 11:22 AM, May 5th (Tuesday)]


me - BS


Posts: 1359 | Registered: Nov 2008
DesertLotus
Member
Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, May 5th (Tuesday)

Hi retailtherapy,

I think my BH has decided he wants to focus on our M and just let this go. He figures that the OBW will find out eventually through karma, or if OM does it again with OW.

Karma doesn't work that way. There is a reason this poor woman doesn't know, and it's not because "karma" hasn't informed her yet. It's because neither her husband or you have given her the truth. She doesn't know because you both made sure she wouldn't. The longer you both keep her in the dark, the more you hurt her. IMO you have an obligation to stop covering up what you've done to her. She has a right to know.


He also said he can't bare breaking up a family.

He wouldn't be. The harm is in the doing, not the telling. If their family breaks up, it will be because of what you and her husband have already done. Don't foist the consequences of your actions onto your husband. This man's wife has a right to the truth, and if she decides to end her marriage as a result, it will be her own informed choice. Allow her to make her own choices, you've taken enough from her already.


Will this change? Will either one of us likely want to tell her eventually once we go through all the fog and stages of healing?

I certainly hope so. I think keeping her in the dark is abusive and cruel. It robs her of reality - and hiding reality can not change it.

Best wishes.


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
Nightlord
Member
Member # 10741
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, May 5th (Tuesday)

retailtherapy, I was both a bs or bbf and the OM. I can tell you this that the OBS needs to know so she can make her own choice in her M. Also if you and your BH say nothing then there is a possiblity that the XOM will do this again. No one should go through that kind of pain, also what happens if the XOM gives or gets an STD and then gives it to his BS could you live with that knowning that you could have stop it by exposing yours. Think about it.


Me: OP(long time ago)/BBF
Her: XWGF (She who shall not be named)
"I've seen the worst of both worlds and it sucks"

Posts: 436 | Registered: May 2006 | From: New York City
brokendreamz
Member
Member # 18436
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, May 5th (Tuesday)

Just curious......How long after the A - did you stop thinking about the OW??

This week is OW's bday - according to FWH the A ended in 2007. FWH - always remembers B-days (mine,kids,all family, friends etc) I'm just feeling really insecure about this.

ETA: Sorry wrong thread!DUH!!

[This message edited by brokendreamz at 2:59 PM, May 6th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 1077 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: SouthEast
hitbyatruck
Member
Member # 23769
Default  Posted: 11:31 PM, May 5th (Tuesday)

My question for the BS that wanted to rebuild.

My WH says that he wants to work things out but hasn't done anything past the basics to show me that he means it. He is transparent but always was. I had all his PWs before the affair which was one of the reasons it was so easy to catch him. Also makes it hurt more because he didn't care enough to hide it. He had a final phone call with OW but still struggling with wanting to speak to her.

What are some of the things you did to help your spouse heal?


Married 1998, 2 kids
D-day3/27/09,he left 5/23/09
WH wants to rebuild 3/21/10
He moved back in 9/25/10,
Dec, 2011-finally putting it all together, H had multiple affairs.
Possible porn addict for 15 yrs.
01/2014- in house separation

Posts: 3277 | Registered: Apr 2009
AnnabelleLee
Member
Member # 23636
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, May 6th (Wednesday)

hitbyatruck,

I'm not sure I completely understand what you're asking - are you asking what BS's have done to help their WS's heal?

If so, it took me a while to understand that just because my husband never talked about what happened unless I was upset and brought it up that it didn't mean he wasn't suffering. I asked him if his suffering compelled him to try and be a better husband - and his honest response was "no, it makes me withdraw and spiral into depression." I tried to show him that I understood that it was hard for both of us, and that he COULD come to me to talk. He had felt like he couldn't, because he is the WS and he didn't think he was entitled to a shoulder to cry on.

I also encouraged him to join SI, to help him start talking about his feelings.


"Time has told me, you're a rare, rare find... A troubled cure for a troubled mind."
- Nick Drake

Me - BS
Him - WS thelateghost


Posts: 124 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Massachusetts
invictus
Member
Member # 21623
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, May 6th (Wednesday)

I am a BS. It seems to me that only a remorseful WS even bothers to ask questions of a BS.

My WS seemed to assume he KNEW how I felt, what I wanted to know, how I SHOULD feel, etc. He was never remorseful; just sorry he got caught and then sorry for hurting everyone's (whole family) feelings.

So ... if he had asked me any question, that would have been a hopeful thing... and indicated he cared enough about someone besides himself to attempt some healing.

I think what I'm saying (besides "What's for dinner?" or "Are you really going to wear that?")... is, if the WS asks questions that's a good thing!

It is just that at the time of extreme emotional turmoil, answers don't come easy...

What would I have wanted my WS to ask me? ANYTHING!


♥ One should rather die than be betrayed. There is no deceit in death. It delivers precisely what it has promised. Betrayal, though ... betrayal is the willful slaughter of hope. ~Steven Deitz

Posts: 1856 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Texas
invictus
Member
Member # 21623
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, May 6th (Wednesday)

I am a BS. It seems to me that only a remorseful WS even bothers to ask questions of a BS.

My WS seemed to assume he KNEW how I felt, what I wanted to know, how I SHOULD feel, etc. He was never remorseful; just sorry he got caught and then sorry for hurting everyone's (whole family) feelings.

So ... if he had asked me any question, that would have been a hopeful thing... and indicated he cared enough about someone besides himself to attempt some healing.

I think what I'm saying (besides "What's for dinner?" or "Are you really going to wear that?")... is, if the WS asks questions that's a good thing!

It is just that at the time of extreme emotional turmoil, answers don't come easy...

What would I have wanted my WS to ask me? ANYTHING!


♥ One should rather die than be betrayed. There is no deceit in death. It delivers precisely what it has promised. Betrayal, though ... betrayal is the willful slaughter of hope. ~Steven Deitz

Posts: 1856 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Texas
hitbyatruck
Member
Member # 23769
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, May 6th (Wednesday)

Thank you so much for the responses. I typed BS when I should have typed WS. My question was for the WSs.

My head isn't all there lately. But you all did give me something to think about.

I will repost my ? again correctly.


Married 1998, 2 kids
D-day3/27/09,he left 5/23/09
WH wants to rebuild 3/21/10
He moved back in 9/25/10,
Dec, 2011-finally putting it all together, H had multiple affairs.
Possible porn addict for 15 yrs.
01/2014- in house separation

Posts: 3277 | Registered: Apr 2009
hitbyatruck
Member
Member # 23769
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, May 6th (Wednesday)

posted in wrong section, sorry.

[This message edited by hitbyatruck at 2:07 PM, May 6th (Wednesday)]


Married 1998, 2 kids
D-day3/27/09,he left 5/23/09
WH wants to rebuild 3/21/10
He moved back in 9/25/10,
Dec, 2011-finally putting it all together, H had multiple affairs.
Possible porn addict for 15 yrs.
01/2014- in house separation

Posts: 3277 | Registered: Apr 2009
Fallen
Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 12:14 AM, June 30th (Tuesday)

Bump for whoami3


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
StormySands
Member
Member # 23709
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, June 30th (Tuesday)

posted in wrong forum... ooops

[This message edited by StormySands at 6:12 PM, June 30th (Tuesday)]


Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end.

Posts: 286 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: AZ
Tried23
Member
Member # 21076
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday)

We go to our first MC tonight. I have had around 4 IC sessions.

He is somewhat nervous and I am too. As a BS, what types of things were you uncomfortable with hearing?

It's not that I don't plan on sharing my thoughts/feelings but wanted to know what things might cause you the most worry before the first appointment.


Me: FWS (me) 48
Husband: BS 44
Married: 14 Years, 2 kids (14 and 13)
D-Day 1: 07/27/08
D-Day 2: 4/15/09 Same OM
D-Day 3: 3/2/2010 All disclosed
Reconciling

Posts: 375 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: MN
findingmyplace
Member
Member # 24512
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday)

Good luck with the MC tonight, Tried 23. It helps, really it does.

As a BS, the only thing taht really sticks out in my mind is when he said the chemistry with OW was...and then he made a sound. I interpreted that to mean it was out of this world. Now, I'm thinking maybe it meant something else. Everything else we talked about moved us to helping our relationship. Perhaps I'm not the best person to answer this question since I can't seem to remember much. I just wanted you to have some encouragement before you went.


Posts: 557 | Registered: Jun 2009
Razor
Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday)

T23,
I was nervous about hearing all of it. I was afraid Id hear something new or something old in a different way. I was afraid that my failures and inadaqucies would be rolled out for everyone to see and laugh at. I was afraid the MC would agree with my WW and say it was all my fault. I was afraid my WW would go into her anger mode and I would have to pay and pay and pay for any hurt I showed.

As a BH my WWs A made me feel like a huge failure, and I was afraid the MC session would do nothing more than rub my nose in that. I was afraid my WW would say she still loved her OM. I was afraid she would tell me he was better than me.

I was afraid of being needy and volnerable. I was afraid of being weak. She had told me that my crying and being hurt were a big turn off and that I was not going to win her back that way. I was hurt and afraid to show it and was afraid the MC was going to force me to bring it out.

I was afraid of it all.

That probably wasnt much help.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
nothereorthere
Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 1:38 AM, July 23rd (Thursday)

Hi Tried23. Guess I'm a little late coming into this forum and reading your question. So many WS's have helped me when I needed it, so I hope I can return the favor. When my FWH & me went to MC it wasn't so much what I would find out about the affair, it was more being afraid he would say that he loved the other person & enjoyed everything with her more then me. It didn't happen, but that was my biggest fear. Your safest bet is letting your H know that you don't want to hurt him more & ask him to let you know how much information would be too much for him. Those things, you can discuss in IC where they won't upset him. I'm one of those persons that need to know every detail & have time to process it then put it behind me. Everyone handles things differently. He will be glad to know that you are considering his feelings, so don't be afraid to tell him what you told all of us. Communication is always best. Good luck to the two of you. Counselling helps. It can be rough at times, but it's worth it.

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 1:41 AM, July 23rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
SwissMs
Member
Member # 25607
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, September 21st (Monday)

I'm new here, but needed somewhere to turn. I have destroyed every ounce of faith and trust my H had in me. He discovered my A in May. He immediately filed for a divorce. After a couple of days to calm down, he said he was going to think about the D. July 5th rolls around and he says he is going through with the divorce; that he knew that is what he wanted all along and he was just using me to get things done around the house (I am the handy one for home repairs).

2 days later he met w/ his atty w/ his financial disclosure paperwork. The same day, I had decided to put my 16 year old dog (my baby) down due to failing health. I told him I wanted my Mother w/ me as he had been quite clear he did not love me and wanted a D.

That night, he said he changed his mind and wanted to work on the marriage. (Which I had been begging him to do since May). We sat down together and found a MC we agreed on, and first went last month. He made the stipulation to me that night that it must be "full disclosure....no more lies or secrets" for either one of us.

I have since found out (2 weeks ago) he has been hiding from me for 4 months that he has changed his beneficiary on everything from me to his sister. I have been 100% honest and committed to working on our marriage, which was far from perfect for the past several years. It took phone calls to my atty & his to have him change this back. We have a court date scheduled for 11/3 (no divorce paperwork is ready as things are on hold...I think). Even though my atty says there is nothing to do at that court date, it is a waste of $$, he won't cancel it.

It seems that everything he does or says doesn't point to him really wanting to try. He still says he doesn't love me.

Am I being a complete idiot for hanging in there? I just feel so hopeless. I would do anything to take away his pain. I wish it never happened, but it did. I'm trying anything I can for him to see he can trust me, but I also need to know I can trust him and that he is truly delaying things to work on our marriage, not just to use me more.

Any insight from BS's is greatly appreciated. I'm new here & am really desperate for input from anyone who has been hurt by an affair. I've been called every name in the book (mostly by his sister who is doing everything in her power to get him to leave), so bash away if you must. I know I deserve it. No matter how bad things were, I made them 100 times worse.


me FWW/BW - desperation fling
him BH/WH - LTA w/ my "friend"
He filed for D 5/20/09, and I finished it. Now he's out in the open with my so-called "friend".

Posts: 125 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Wisconsin
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 9:24 PM, September 21st (Monday)

SwissMs...

so bash away if you must. I know I deserve it

Please do not encourage bashing/attacking...that is not how we run this site.

Also, you may want to post in the WS forum to gain more perspective from other WS's.

Thank you


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192011 | Registered: May 2002
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, September 21st (Monday)

For what it's worth, literally one of the first things I did after discovering my wife's affair was to change my beneficiaries on all of my accounts to my siblings. The ones I couldn't change, I cancelled.

Of course, my wife has been a SAHM for our entire marriage, and I wasn't about to have her living off my insurance and investments if her infidelity put me in an early grave. I figured I'd supported her running around for long enough.

I still haven't changed it back.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
lingerdog
Member
Member # 24459
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, September 21st (Monday)

In my opinion, if you want the marriage, all you can do is continue to show him that is what you want, continue to show him that you are remorseful for what you have done. It is going to be a hard road to go down. AS far as trust, it's not going to magically come back over night, it will take a while to rebuild that. HAve you been to the healing library, the yellow box on the upper left of the screen, maybe check in there, you will find some articles that may be helpful to you.


What lies behind us & what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
Oliver Wendell Holmes -Stolen from Uni's page

Posts: 8921 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Awesomeville
BetrayedinSD
New Member
Member # 24410
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, September 21st (Monday)

to regain trust you need time, NC, complete honesty no matter what, COMPLETE transparency, and true remorse.

Your bs is pissed, the anger takes time to get to a level where he can begin the think rationally again.

Now the harsh reality, infidelity is a deal breaker for many and this could be his


Me- BS
Her- WW

Posts: 36 | Registered: Jun 2009
jollum
Member
Member # 25152
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, September 22nd (Tuesday)

Swissms,
The question you might ask yourself is what is more important to you, his money or your marriage? You were unfaithful to him by cheating and he is being unfaithful to you by not wanting you to share in any finances after his death. You should focus on what is really important and forget about the money. Your BS is hurting and you worrying about who gets his insurance is only telling him that he doesn't matter to you just what he can provide. Rise above it or you are going to reinforce his thoughts that you don't really care about him. I know I would have a hard time believing my WS gave a crap about me when all she was concerned with is where my money goes when I die. My first question to her would be where did her heart go while I lived?

Posts: 269 | Registered: Aug 2009
debbied
Member
Member # 25354
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, November 12th (Thursday)

My Bh still doesn't believe that I found and find him more attractive than the OM.He doesn't think I think he was better looking.I am definately not lying about this.The Om was 9 years younger than my BH and was a gym junkie so his physique was better.My H knows this as Of course when questioned I told him the truth.

Also at the time of A (4 years ago lasted 6 weeks)I ws asking BH for a D.So basically leaving BH for OM.Obviously I see things differently now was in a complete mess at time and have done alot of work to change myself.But the sticking point is I have told H the truth and even at time of A I knew my BH was better looking than OM.I still do and I believe my BH is far better looking than alot of men even those alot younger than him.Is it a time factor that will heal this wound.

Unfortunately now I am the BW as H has cheated 20 times with 20 different OW in last year.4 A and 16 ONS.D day for me aug 09.This has now stopped and we are in R.He was looking for validation and also he is 45 so may have been going through that midlife thing.He says he knows OW found him attractive but doesn't believe I do.

I would really like help on this specific question.

I know actions speak louder than words and have been doing all I can.This has come naturally to me.

We are in R we both want M to work and both love each other and want to move foreward.


Posts: 620 | Registered: Aug 2009
Lonerider
Member
Member # 9205
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, November 12th (Thursday)

debbied,

He may be looking for truth that makes sense.

The OM was younger and more fit and you were ready to leave your BH. What exactly did your BH have that the OM didn't? Be as specific as you can. What kept you? Maybe in his mind if he had decided to leave you for a younger, hotter woman, he would have.

Right now I'm struggling with my wife getting very lusty last month and trimming down there. Prior to that our sex life was mediocre, once or twice a month for years, unless I spoke up, but that only worked for a week. I thought we were getting to a good place, finally, only to find out she was talking/texting/chatting and emailing her hs boyfriend.

I asked her one night what the connection was, I didn't really change anything, and in my mind the explanations range from relatively innocent (she got turned on that her HS boyfriend still carried a torch for her after 25 years) to depressing (I can't get her hot, but her old boyfriend can, and she was fantasizing about him while doing me).

She said there was no connection, which just doesn't make any sense to me. The two biggest changes in her life in October were the increased libido and connecting with the xbf. I can't believe they're not linked. Maybe she can't admit they're linked, but right now I obsess a little about it. I'd like a truth that makes sense to me.


BS me 43 years old
WS her 45 years old
married 14 years, together 20
2 kids
D-day 7/15/05

Posts: 4225 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: western NY
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, November 18th (Wednesday)

So, I have a question....

Your WS confides in their best friend about the A. These friends are not your friends. They are your WS's friends, one of which has been there since before you two even met. Do you expect the friends of your WS to tell you that your spouse is cheating? Whose responsibility is it to out your WS? Is it your WS or your WS's friends?


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5525 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
FatherofFour
Member
Member # 24263
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, November 18th (Wednesday)

changed my mind. sorry.

[This message edited by FatherofFour at 4:39 PM, November 18th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2767 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: MN
kdny
Member
Member # 760
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, November 18th (Wednesday)

In a perfect world, any honest person who knows of dishonsty or betrayal would out the person doing the betrayal.

But, lets get real......this is no perfect world.

I don't think there are many friends of only the WS who would go to the BS and tell.

Now.......after d-day I think its perfectly fine when trying to reconcile that only friends of the marriage are kept.

So, IMO, that betrayal cost a friendship too.


Whether we remain ash or become phoenix is up to us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes the fine line between a nervous breakdown and knowing things will be okay is a pair of furry pants~unfound

Posts: 81335 | Registered: Dec 2002 | From: Slightly left of center, standing on my head
SourCherryDrops
Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 5:18 AM, November 19th (Thursday)

My WW confided in much of her 'inner circle' of friends at least certain aspects of what she was doing. I am not sure that any of them knew everything, or how much each knew.

What i find really difficult to deal with is knowing that some of them have sat at our kitchen table smiled at me asked me how im doing... all while they knew something was wrong.

Not one of them ever even told me that i should pay a bit more attention to my WW.

Would i expect them to tell me...i guess not, Their loyalties do lie with my wife...but would i expect them to have told my wife to stop and really think about what she was doing and that it may well screw up what she thought was left of her Marriage...you bet.. did any of them ... not that im aware of.

there were a few words of warning... but mostly they were just there to help pick up the pieces when things went wrong in one of her A's.

I havent yet had to face any of them yet... Im not looking foward to it.

What really peeves me off about her 'friends' and the people she sought out for advice...was that NONE..not one of them is in a stabile Mariage, or was in one. and some of them have been on the recieving end of Infidelity themselves... I hope that should i ever find myself in the same situation that i would react differently... that at the very least i would tell my friend to wake up and smell the rosses.

(sorry if i got a bit rantish)

would i like to have had one fo them tell me...absolutely, can i reasonably expect it..no, and i wouldnt in the future either.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
icbtih8
Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, November 19th (Thursday)

MJ,

no, i guess realistically i don't expect them to tell me. i do expect them to tell the WS that what they are doing is wrong and encourage him to confess. these i would consider friends, real, actual, true friends that are looking out for his best interest. their loyalty lies with him, not me.
any "friend" that encourages him to continue the A, is not a friend of his and is not a friend of the marriage.

i would probably expect WS to break ties with these friends, even the real friends because reasonable or not, i would not trust them. i wasnt' there during their conversations; i don't know who said what or who encouraged who. i'm not taking the risk of them not being friends of the marriage.


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, November 20th (Friday)

Thanks everyone for your input. My friends, 2 in particular, warned me numerous times and even asked me if I had any idea what I was risking by doing what I was doing...They practically begged me to stop, but clearly I didn't...


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5525 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Buzz09
Member
Member # 25971
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, November 20th (Friday)

kdny & SCD made great points.

You have friends and then there are friends that are friends of your marriage. Like scd, my XWW confided in friends that are in horrible marriages. They are the ones that encouraged her. They are still married.

It comes down to loyalty. Regardless if it is right or wrong. But, it also depends on if the WS told the friend the real truth.


Me BH 40
WW 41

Posts: 648 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: buzz09
screweditup
New Member
Member # 26700
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, December 15th (Tuesday)

I have a question for BS's... I had a one night stand 2.5 years ago while extremally drunk, don't even know if we had sex just know that I woke up in someone else's bed. I felt so horrible that I didn't tell my then boyfriend but he found out, I did initially lie about things but eventually told him the truth including the fact that I didn't know if we had sex. Anyway, it is 2 years later and we have since gotten married and had a daughter but he continues to throw it in my face anytime we argue! I can't stand this, I feel like he uses it to justify anything he does wrong. I am sick of him bringing it up, if he didn't want to get past it, why did he marry me after this happened? He also still doesn't believe me that I told him the whole truth but I have and there is nothing I can do to make him believe me. What do I do? If we are past this (since we clearly moved on in our relationship and got married) how do I stop him from constantly bringing it up? He has no idea how much it hurts me, I honestly feel like he should just go cheat on me once and then be done talking about it! Urg, it is hard, I know I am the one at fault but I am still getting extremally hurt in this situation. Let me know if anyone has helpful ideas. Thanks!

Posts: 4 | Registered: Dec 2009
kdny
Member
Member # 760
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, December 15th (Tuesday)

If we are past this (since we clearly moved on in our relationship and got married) how do I stop him from constantly bringing it up?

Clearly, he is not past it. I think some marriage counseling is in order. His feelings need to be worked through.


He has no idea how much it hurts me, I honestly feel like he should just go cheat on me once and then be done talking about it! Urg, it is hard, I know I am the one at fault but I am still getting extremally hurt in this situation.

Learning to argue about typical marriage stuff without constantly throwing out the affair is important to the survival of the marriage. Again, seek some counseling to help with this.

Him cheating on you? Won't solve a thing. It will create so many more problems you can't even imagine. Don't suggest it to him, its not a solution.


Whether we remain ash or become phoenix is up to us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes the fine line between a nervous breakdown and knowing things will be okay is a pair of furry pants~unfound

Posts: 81335 | Registered: Dec 2002 | From: Slightly left of center, standing on my head
mickey321
Member
Member # 25725
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, December 15th (Tuesday)

I agree with kdny, he's clearly stuck and hasn't gotten past it. I needed IC as well as MC to get past wanting to use the A like a club on my WW.


BH 44 Me
WW 39
DS 9 years old
D-Day 03July2009
R - Trying

Posts: 58 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Midwest
Mobilejoe
Member
Member # 26438
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, December 15th (Tuesday)

IC & MC are needed for sure

Posts: 65 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Maryland
debbied
Member
Member # 25354
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, December 20th (Sunday)

He either hasn't got past it and needs counselling or he's use it as a way of controlling you so that when ever he does wrong he uses it against you.So he is essentially using your guilt against you.Either way its wrong and you need to seek MC.

Posts: 620 | Registered: Aug 2009
lilac18
Member
Member # 25180
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, December 20th (Sunday)

All I can do is echo what is being said. MC is definately in order. This is not a constructive way to address any problems in your marriage and you can't spend the rest of your life having this thrown in your face every time you have a disagreement. You are correct, if he had a problem with this he should have never proposed marriage. I definately see traces of manipulation in this situation.


Me/BW 45
WH 35

DDay 08/09/09
Reconciled

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." – Albert Einstein


Posts: 452 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: Texas
debbied
Member
Member # 25354
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, December 20th (Sunday)

I definately see traces of manipulation in this situation

Totally agree with lilac on this one.

Posts: 620 | Registered: Aug 2009
hopingwaiting
Member
Member # 23575
Default  Posted: 11:19 PM, December 20th (Sunday)

Lonerider, post your Q in the BS Qs for WS forum...maybe someone can let you know possible reasons to explain her increase in libido.

My gut reaction is it was part guilt, part turned on from the endorphins from the EA.


BW (Me)-34,
our 1st baby born 7/6/09
WH-34
EA turned PA 8/08-present
D-Day#1 (1/1/09) false R,
D-Day #2 (3/17/09)said he couldn't stop contacting her; told him to move out
married 3.5 years; together 5
status-WH filed for D 6/14/10

Posts: 615 | Registered: Apr 2009
manAscending
Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 12:12 AM, December 25th (Friday)

I am a WH with a question for betrayed spouses.

My wife, whom I betrayed in a series of one-night-stands, has not asked me a lot of questions since D-day four months ago. At D-day, I was completely open and truthful with regard to both my actions and her questions at the time. I've read many WS, however, who say that their BS grilled them for a long period of time afterward.

I assume my BS has not been inquisitive since D-day for a number of reasons--hurt, sadness, anger, numbness, and mental exhaustion top that list. But I was wondering if she may also be growing disinterested, as in, she doesn't care to know any more. Honestly, what I'm suggesting to you sounds crazy to me; I'd like a reality check.

Have you ever used disinterest, feigned or real, as a coping strategy to deal with your emotions toward your WS's infidelity?


Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
Devestatedx5
Member
Member # 16557
Default  Posted: 4:56 AM, December 25th (Friday)

manAscending

Have you ever used disinterest, feigned or real, as a coping strategy to deal with your emotions toward your WS's infidelity?
During the first few months (may have even been up to 6-9 months), yes, I WAS disinterested in anything that affected my FWH/DH.

After I asked the initial questions I wanted answered about his ONS (and there were many), the remainder of my questions became more from "questionable" women in his PAST - since we were married and up until just prior to his ONS. Many, many boundary crossings (though no infidelity) during those years. I knew I was very uncomfortable with the women/and or the situations, but was not able to verbalize or really understand my discomfort. Tried to talk myself into saying I was just being jealous, when in fact, my gut/heart knew something wasn't right.

But back to your initial question, I'll be very honest. For the first 12-18 months, my focus was more on ME and not him. My pain, my hurt, my disgust, my fear, my mourning, etc. What he was dealing with during those times may have briefly and mentally crossed my mind, but emotionally, I didn't really care.

[This message edited by Devestatedx5 at 4:58 AM, December 25th (Friday)]


FBS-me (49)
FWH(57) ONS 8.19.07
Dday: 9.19.07
Married +26 years
RE-MARRIED 4.28.11
----------
Proverbs 31:10-31
Sometimes people are SO open-minded that that their brains fall out.

Posts: 2598 | Registered: Oct 2007
Good Wife
New Member
Member # 26237
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, December 26th (Saturday)

manAscending

The detachment is a measure of self protection. I grilled my WH after I found out about his drunk ONS betrayal.

Having had, and perhaps still one day again having, a uniquely happy marriage; I was in total shock and disbelief. Initially, as he tried to explain the unexplainable, I felt as if in a tunnel; I sort of heard, but did not process the information.

Over the next couple of months I would grill him and we would both cry. Then came the detachment; in trying to disassociate myself from the event, to process, compartmentalize and put away the event in my head, I detached from him. He hurt me so badly I could hardly breathe. He sensed this detachment and would try harder to woo me back to him. I wasn't trying to hurt him, just to protect me.

Perhaps your wife is trying to pull away from the events as they are too painful to process. I don't know what led to your betrayal nor do I know the state your marriage was in before the betrayals occurred, but these factors are relevant.

Either you can detach from her in return, or you can try to make her fall in love with you all over again. You need to figure out what you want before you can expect anything more from her.

Good Luck,
Good Wife


Posts: 29 | Registered: Nov 2009
hopingwaiting
Member
Member # 23575
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, December 26th (Saturday)

Manascending, I am a BS who does not want to hear "gory details" as I put it. It is too painful and I am worried it will add to mind movies. I will ask basic questions but other than that, don't want to know.

Your BS could be doing a 180 as she copes with the aftermath. She may also be just in shock and blocking it for now.

Has she had mood swings? Is she withdrawing in other ways?
Are you following the 4 pillars of reconciliation:
no contact w/ OPs, honesty, transparency and showing remorse? If so, she may be getting what she needs at the moment!

[This message edited by hopingwaiting at 9:53 AM, December 26th (Saturday)]


BW (Me)-34,
our 1st baby born 7/6/09
WH-34
EA turned PA 8/08-present
D-Day#1 (1/1/09) false R,
D-Day #2 (3/17/09)said he couldn't stop contacting her; told him to move out
married 3.5 years; together 5
status-WH filed for D 6/14/10

Posts: 615 | Registered: Apr 2009
jewel123
Member
Member # 22863
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, December 26th (Saturday)

ManAscending

The biggest key to R that I have found is communication. Then some more communication thrown in for good measure.

There could be all kinds of reasons. Yes she could be detaching. Yes it could be she doesnt want to hear the "gory details". Plus a whole lot of other reasons.

I think the best thing for you to do is to communicate with her about it.

Ask her if she has any ?'s. Ask her if she wants to talk about things. These responses to a BS are wonderful.

If she says no she doesnt have any ?'s or doesnt want to talk about it then you need to explain your fears. Tell her your afraid that she is not interested in repairing the M any longer. It gives you the opportunity to work on things.

Communicate, communicate, communicate.

Sending you strength
Jewel

[This message edited by jewel123 at 10:02 AM, December 26th (Saturday)]


BS me 44
H 46 (paulie)
married 25 years (hs sweethearts)
dday 8-08
DS19
DS23
New love is the brightest, and long love is the greatest, but revived love is the tenderest thing known on earth. -Thomas Hardy
Reconciled! :)

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: MO
manAscending
Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, December 26th (Saturday)

@Devestatedx5 and Good Wife
Thanks for sharing what you felt with me. I appreciate your honesty. I never considered that it would be hard for my BS to verbalise or understand her discomfort. I also don't fully understand the pain she's in. After D-day and before we separated, we continued to live together for two months. The feelings I would expect to have seen never really surfaced, and I imagine they're surfacing now.

@hopingwaiting and jewell123
I will do my best to communicate with my wife, although I'm feeling resistance/reluctance on her part right now. She's not returning my phone messages or email, so I suspect she either needs space, or is waiting for a grand gesture from me. I'm following the 4 pillars of reconciliation, and in a small while, will ask if she has questions that she'd like to ask me. Thanks for your time and input, I really appreciate it.


Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
figureitout
Member
Member # 23997
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, December 27th (Sunday)

BS...mind movies?

My BH recently shared several mind movies that were playing over and over with him.

Now that he has given me details of them, I have asked if they are less frequent...but I do not know whether to continue addressing the state of them. I am unsure of asking if they are improving or if they have changed so as not to bring them to the forefront of BH's mind.

If you shared mind-movies with your WS, how would you like them to react to the information?

FIO


M-30+ yr
Dday 8/09

Posts: 308 | Registered: May 2009
Littlegirllost
Member
Member # 21769
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, January 3rd (Sunday)

figureitout, I suppose I would need reassurance that *I* was all he thought of. Reassurance that you have returned to him and have shed off all traces of the other. That it is the two... just the two... once again... the way it once was.

Mind movies are horrible.


Me: BS 48 yrs.
FWH 50
D'day: 5/22/08
2 EA's, 1 PA during 5 month period of time
A Midlife Crisis gone wild
In R

Posts: 1301 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: New Jersey
fooledbyapilot
Member
Member # 26349
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, January 4th (Monday)

The mind movies are so horrible. As a BS you fill in the blanks with your own imagination.

BUT, for me if I get too much detail from my WH then I put the real details in and add more of my imagination to it. I tell my WH about the movies and he just holds me and kisses me and says I'm sorry. I told him along time ago not to give me gory details as I can't take it.

Hard to say what your spouse wants, everyone is different. You have to ask them the level of detail they want.


ME(BS):47 HIM (WS):50
WS Married 21 yrs together 33
dd#1- nov 16, 2009
DD#2-went out NYE 2009-found out Feb 2012
DD#2-Feb 5, 2010-date they had(found out Feb 2012)
dd#3 - June 16, 2010-broke NC
dd#4-Dec 31, 2010-broke contact
DD#5-Feb 21, 201

Posts: 186 | Registered: Nov 2009
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, January 23rd (Saturday)

hmmmmm...

I haven't really shared the details of the mind movies. I just usually let him know that it is going on.

I think, rather than specifically asking if he's having them or has had them recently, maybe you should just ask if he's had any struggles and demonstrate a willingness to help him through them.


Posts: 10967 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: North Carolina
shatteredwindow
Member
Member # 27051
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, January 23rd (Saturday)

My WW helps me out by asking me if I want to talk about it...That helps even if I don't...

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2010
GreenEyes885
Member
Member # 25267
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, January 23rd (Saturday)

Since the OW was 20 yrs younger and loved giving bj's all the time... Yes - I wonder frequently if I'll meet his needs. I wonder that he's constantly compairing me to her and what they liked doing together. He chose to be with another after taking vows with me... it hurts like hell.


Me-BS;
Him-WH;
Married 9+, LTA-2-3 yrs
D-Day 07/02/2009

One Day At A Time....


Posts: 267 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: RR
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, February 7th (Sunday)

BS's,

Do you want who you first married to, that pre-A person?
Can that person exist anymore?
Do you really want the person you know your WS can be, if it took an A to get them to become that person?

There seems to be a consensus that both WS and BS need to change to deal with many of the pre-A issues that may have set the stage for the A, but what happens if only one spouse ends up changing? I am not asking this about things like being more open or being able to communicate better. I am asking about those BIG changes. What if the changes one spouse needs to make either seem like no change at all, or are so far beyond what is expected that that other can't keep up? Sounds selfish no that I have put this down in writing, but this is what I am dealing with right now.

Thanks for any help.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
GettinBetterNow
New Member
Member # 26648
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, February 7th (Sunday)

Sometimes I do want that person back, the person he was long before his A. But that person is long gone and will never be back and I'm ok with that.

The person he is now is very similar to the person he was. He is definitely way more open about his feelings now and I love the person he is now. I think if I had the choice to pick either who he was and who he is, I'd pick the person he is now.


BS:me,31
FWS:him,37
M:8.5 yrs, together almost 12yrs.
3 children together:
D-10.5yrs,D-7yrs,S-5.5yrs and StepD-13yrs
D-day:12/25/05
TT till 03/17/06(our son's 2nd B-day)
R'ing since 09/07

Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2009
crushed again
Member
Member # 26138
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, February 7th (Sunday)

BaxtersBFF
As a BS I think the biggest reason I want my 'old' WH back is because it was before he felt the need to turn to someone else Wh's 1st A was not a PA (I know this for a fact) and after I ousted him on this one he changed but only in a good way. He became more open and honest. With this A he changed but not for the better. I saw him go from a hardworking, caring, H and Dad to a lying, cowardly, lost person. As with all WS he tried to 'justify' his A by blameshifting. Also to point out ALL my flaws. Now I think that the fog is slowly lifting and he is finally coming back to us. He has changed though. Even those that don't know about the A have remarked on this. Not to ramble but YES, I miss my old H. Very much...


"Don't you worry your pretty little mind because people throw rocks at things that shine!"
~I guess living in limbo is my "new normal"- stinks!~

Posts: 713 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Dreaming of a far better place!
elske
Member
Member # 24671
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, February 8th (Monday)

Baxter:

this depends on how different things became during the A(s) or after Dday, or how D-days were handled.
I was lucky, other than finding out about a second life my FWH never acted differently.

Do I want the same sense of security in truely knowing and trusting that the person i 'thought I knew' is doing what he says he does? Of course, but that can only happen in time...contigent on many things.

If you used to share, share now. If you used to do cute little things, then try that..being respective of any space your BS may want.

good luck.


D-day 7/2/09
Me-BW 32
WH 32 - For over 2 years or more--8 or so PAs,(makes no difference anymore) 1 EA.
WH was long term SAB by clergy member(in major therapy) had no clue until D-day.
Attempting R.

Posts: 114 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: north east
Just Crushed
Member
Member # 24852
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, February 8th (Monday)

Baxter,
I do want a "new and improved" version of the pre-A person back, but the old relationship is DEAD. It all starts over.

I get the impression that you are asking if the WS is the only one that has to make changes or sacrifices. Is that what your asking? Well, if it is my answer would be 1) The WS needs to make specific changes to help right the wrong, and 2) both spouses need to put effort in to fix the marriage.

Now about BIG changes...hmmm, not sure what you mean by this. I mean we all married our spouses b/c we love who they are...so, I don't think a spouse can change the core of who they are. But, yes both spouses need to make the changes necessary to foster love. Kind of like it was in the beginning.


BH
*details in Profile*

Posts: 843 | Registered: Jul 2009
healingwife
Member
Member # 23912
Default  Posted: 5:30 AM, February 9th (Tuesday)

Baxter,

Your being here and asking these questions attest to your urgent sense of wanting to "right the wrong" of your A. I am treading very, very lightly here...

I have read and re-read your question, and Just Crushed asked the same question I was going to:

Are you asking whether or not you are the only one who should be doing all the work?

Of course, overall, both of you need to work on the marriage. But I would be very, very careful to insinuate to your BS that she needs to do the work now, too. Even though it will be the case later, telling her that she needs to work on pre-A issues now only fuels her hurt and indignation -- and actually sounds like blameshifting a little.

Most WSs have a warped perception of their marriages -- it is sort of the safety blanket of justification that a WS will weave into the energy of the M in order to give permission to have the A. The snowball may start with a real issue, but quickly becomes more heightened in a WS's head when the opportunity of having an A presents itself. The WS can obsess over the "state of the marriage" and pick the flaws -- and then pick on the BS, creating an even more negative energy in the M. This then snowballs into the abyss.

In my case, I believe that a shred of this warped sense of our M remains in my H. And when he starts to bring up the pre-A issues before he has tackled the A, he sounds like he is blaming the A on these issues. And while I truly believe there were issues, I refuse to buy into "how bad it was."

Whenever he even hints that "hey, you need to work on this, too," I am set back weeks.

So of course she needs to work on things, too. But it will happen in time. Believe me, if you harbor any thoughts of "hey, why am I the only one working on this?", you will only set her back.

Just know that the other issues will be brought up. They really will. But you have to spend a lot of time getting her through your betrayal.

In the meantime, make sure she is seeing (or continuing to see) an IC. I never thought I needed to see an IC -- I mean, I'm not the one who caused this, right? Well, my IC is the only thing keeping me sane. She calls me on obsessive thoughts, while validating the thoughts and feelings I have. And that right there is healing.

Anyway, just my opinion. And I swear it's not a 2x4 -- I have been following your story, and you have really handled the situation in a caring and intuitive way so far.

[This message edited by healingwife at 5:32 AM, February 9th (Tuesday)]


BS - me
FWH - him
married 20 years
Lovingly in R
EA/PA from April-August 2008
Discovered EA - 8/28/08
Discovered PA - 4/17/09 (admitted on his own)

Posts: 482 | Registered: May 2009
Edie
Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 5:43 AM, February 9th (Tuesday)

BFF, I am not sure that I understand your question, so can only answer what my situation is.

I regarded DDAy as a massive wake-up call, that I had been doing too much caring for everybody else, and had put myself too far down on my list. So my 180 was instinctive, pursuing what I wanted my life to be. I like myself so I did not feel I needed to change, but enhance.

Because I loved/ love my H, I wanted this for him too, and said this is now an opportunity. I guess I led by example, and waited to see if he caught up; in some ways, I wasn't invested in him changing for me, but for himself, and so knew that this was something I should not be involved in, as it would be yet again me fixing things.

I like very much who he is now - only an enhanced version of his former self, someone who does not need to pay attention to shallow concerns any more and is greatly relieved by that.

But in some ways, I am not measuring him, and only measure myself, and that is a bad habit - judging myself, still got to fix that.

I don't feel he 'owes' me anything, if that is part of your question. But I do feel its all about teamwork also.

Not sure if that addresses what you want to hear.


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, February 9th (Tuesday)

Baxter
I would love to have the man I married. The man that had values and character. He lost that the day he slept with the OP. That person died. An a shallow man walks in his shoes now for me. For him he may feel stronger I am glad for him. Funny how the tables turn when an A enters into a marriage.
Yes I would die for that man not the one that walks beside me now.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:37 PM, February 9th (Tuesday)

Thanks everyone.

Even though I am the WS, if I had to answer my own questions, I would say 1) it would be great to have that pre-A person back but 2) that person doesn't exist and 3) not sure that I can envision being with a person with the shadow of an A hanging over everything.

Those being my answers, I think BW and I are both making changes. Things have been really good for the past month or more.

I would like to explain more about the big change part of my last post, but I can't seem to do it right now. GG will have to talk first, then I will either get my questions answered from talking to her, or I will hopefully be able to focus more and re-post again here.

Thanks again.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Razor
Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, February 10th (Wednesday)

Baxter.

Do you want who you first married to, that pre-A person?

No. I would not want to be with some one that could do that to me. What I would like back tho is the innocence we had then. That trust that existed between us.

Can that person exist anymore?

I dunno. I am not a WS so can not answer this.
BUT. We BS change allot. Probably more than the WS does. But may be it is not visible to you because you are still to focus on you self.

Do you really want the person you know your WS can be, if it took an A to get them to become that person?

I would like to think that my WS could have changed without having the A. To say that I get a better WS because of the A is to some how say to me that I should be happy about the A on some level. This is a complete invalidation of me pain.

There seems to be a consensus that both WS and BS need to change to deal with many of the pre-A issues that may have set the stage for the A,..

Are you saying pre-A issues in the M caused you A? If so then I dont agree. I think you need to look at HOW you could make such a choice.

.. but what happens if only one spouse ends up changing? I am not asking this about things like being more open or being able to communicate better. I am asking about those BIG changes. What if the changes one spouse needs to make either seem like no change at all, or are so far beyond what is expected that that other can't keep up? Sounds selfish no that I have put this down in writing, but this is what I am dealing with right now.

Are you saying that you are changing but you BS is not? If so. I think you need to look closer. And if you BS is not responding to you changes then may be those changes are not what you BS is looking for?


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
shatteredwindow
Member
Member # 27051
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, February 10th (Wednesday)

I don't have time to go into detail right now...I think the BS doing a lot of internal adjusting that most of the time is not easy to put into words...I don't think the BS has to change much, except that A changes us forever...Dealing with all that is much of the time way more than I can handle...I told my WW that the hardest thing may be the fact that I will look at her for the rest of my life and think "she cheated on me!"...That I believe is the ultimate burden for any BS to come to grips with...The A changes us forever...Isn't that enough for us to be asked to handle?

[This message edited by shatteredwindow at 11:00 AM, February 10th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2010
sadnews
Member
Member # 22235
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, February 19th (Friday)

BaxtersBFF, your question made me very, very sad, because in my situation, I don't have a very encouraging answer.

I want the man I THOUGHT my WH was. And I don't believe he was, or ever will be, that man.

My WH believes that the whole A was just a big anomaly - that he "changed" in a very bad way "for a while" but now he has "changed back" into the wonderful person he was, pre-A.

And to me, that just sounds like a lot of bullshit. WH is great at putting his best foot forward. Everyone who knows him (except me and the very few people who know about the A) think he is a complete superstar of a guy. And I include WH himself in this - I believe he continues to think very highly of himself.

And so, I don't think WH feels he needs to "change" at all now. I think he believes that he "made a big mistake," "made bad choices," "was selfish," but since he's not doing that awful stuff anymore (because he got caught), he's just snapped right back into being Mr. Wonderful.

And I don't believe in Mr. Wonderful anymore, at all.



Posts: 731 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: USA
jollum
Member
Member # 25152
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, March 2nd (Tuesday)

figureitout

I'm a BH and from my view the mind movies are probably about the worst thing after the betrayal. My WW has told me some details but not very graphic and I haven't pushed for them. Just knowing that the only woman I've ever loved or been intimate with could do what she did makes me sick every time I think of it. I have no doubt my imaginations are no where near as bad as what happened. What details she gave me were so much worse than anything I ever thought she was capable of doing that I really believe if I knew every detail we'd be D by now.

As far as asking your BH about them, I can only tell you that I would LOVE it if my WW would bring up the painful things like that once in a while and discuss them. If I bring them up she will discuss but otherwise they are never mentioned. All I get from that is she doesn't understand one bit of how much this all hurts and how much I need her to be willing to wade through the sewage with me not hide from it.


Posts: 269 | Registered: Aug 2009
deena
Member
Member # 27275
Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, March 12th (Friday)

I hate the mind movies...I can be feeling better...then something triggers and the movies come back and put me in a depressing mood.
I don't think my WH understood why I was getting the moods swings.
I told him before he went to sleep (on the couch) one night, to try to picture me being intimate with another man...and that maybe then he would understand how I feel, how I can swing back and forth with my moods. How seeing anything on tv, reading stuff in the paper, going past the bar that he met her...would just trigger the mind movies.


Relationships are like glass. Sometimes it's
better to leave them broken than to hurt
yourself putting it back together.


Posts: 2491 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Canada
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, March 12th (Friday)

Do you want who you first married to, that pre-A person?
Can that person exist anymore?
Do you really want the person you know your WS can be, if it took an A to get them to become that person?

There seems to be a consensus that both WS and BS need to change to deal with many of the pre-A issues that may have set the stage for the A, but what happens if only one spouse ends up changing? I am not asking this about things like being more open or being able to communicate better. I am asking about those BIG changes. What if the changes one spouse needs to make either seem like no change at all, or are so far beyond what is expected that that other can't keep up? Sounds selfish no that I have put this down in writing, but this is what I am dealing with right now.

Do you want who you first married to, that pre-A person?
Can that person exist anymore?
The image he portrayed to me (and to himself) was just that- an image. So, that guy can't exist anymore because now I know he never did. Kind-of like Santa.

Do you really want the person you know your WS can be, if it took an A to get them to become that person?
There were other, better ways to get there. I have hope for him, though.

There seems to be a consensus that both WS and BS need to change to deal with many of the pre-A issues that may have set the stage for the A, but what happens if only one spouse ends up changing? I am not asking this about things like being more open or being able to communicate better. I am asking about those BIG changes. What if the changes one spouse needs to make either seem like no change at all, or are so far beyond what is expected that that other can't keep up? Sounds selfish no that I have put this down in writing, but this is what I am dealing with right now.
When one person grows in a relationship and the other does not, the relationship eventually dies.

Posts: 10967 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: North Carolina
erzulie
Member
Member # 3293
Question  Posted: 4:46 PM, March 30th (Tuesday)

I just can't get it right today, sorry.

[This message edited by erzulie at 4:46 PM, March 30th (Tuesday)]


A saying for my SI Family: "We may not have it all together, but together we have it all".

Fooled twice - almost exactly 10 years apart.


Posts: 3375 | Registered: Jan 2004 | From: California
HelpBLV
Member
Member # 27914
Default  Posted: 3:42 AM, April 13th (Tuesday)

My situation is in the WS forum, but my question is for BS.

xBGF did not want R after dday/breakup (same day). She admitted she did only after I made some poor choices after dday, and now says again there is no chance of us even being friends.

xBGF texted me today saying she's digging deep to forgive me, though she doubts we can ever be friends, which is all I can hope for. She said she needs to forgive me to move on.

Can anyone give me insight on what forgiveness means on her part? What would she get out of it? How is forgiving me necessary to move on?

I know there is no clearcut answer, but just perspective from BS would help.

Thank you


Me: FWBF
Striving to work towards R as xBGF indicates she doesn't want to
D-Day: 2/7/10

Posts: 118 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Concord, CA
icbtih8
Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 5:42 AM, April 13th (Tuesday)

HelpfulBLV,

forgiveness means a lot of different things to different people. I can only give you my perspective which I'm guessing is similar to hers.

Forgiveness to me means letting go of the past, accepting that you cannot change the past nor the behavior of the person who did you wrong. It means that I will not hold a grudge or resentment against the person who wronged me. I view it as something I need to do for myself because I refuse to live holding on to the past or holding a grudge against someone.

It doesn't mean I forget, that I believe that person will never wrong me again, or that I'm willing to take a chance to the possibility of being wronged again. It simply means that if I see that person in the street, I'm not going to harbor negative feelings.


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
gerrygirl
Member
Member # 26294
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, April 14th (Wednesday)

HelpfulBLV, one of the things I decided long before R started was that I was not going to hold the pain from my H's EA in my heart and let it define the rest of my life. To heal me, I had to forgive him.

I give as an example my own mother. My father had a PA and went on to marry his OW. My mother has held on to her resentment and the bitterness of her D for the last 28 years. She has never had another relationship and to this day the pain and anger from her D can be heard in her voice when she talks about him. This has affected her relationships with her children, although she does not see it or would admit to it.

Your xBGF might not want to harbor any bitterness in her heart that could affect any future relationships. In order to do that, she needs to forgive you so that she can be a whole person again.


Me(BS)-45; Him (FWH)-43 (baxtersbff)
M - 20 years
DD - 16; DS -12
D-day #1: 8/12/07; D-day #2: 11/18/07; D-day #3 5/26/2010
Real R Begins - 5/27/2010

Posts: 962 | Registered: Nov 2009
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, April 14th (Wednesday)

HelpBLV

I never want my WS actions to define who I am how I live my life. I neither have to forgive nor forget but accept my actions to the whole situation as the right one. Soo I don't need to forgive nor forget but accept the hand that was dealt to me and how I played it. I have never been bitter and I never want to be a bitter person I did nothing wrong. But I like gerrygirl have seen persons that are soo bitter from their breakups they just never moveon with their lifes.
Sooo I think what you are wanting to know is how can you help your xBGF.
You know what you could go into individual counseling. Tell her you are wanting to know what was wrong with YOU that made you mess up with a perfect partner that you love sooo deeply. Because you don't want to make the same mistake with your next relationship. I hope I helped. Hugs doll...


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
nothereorthere
Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, April 14th (Wednesday)

HelpBLV

For me, forgiving my FWH was for my own benefit. It's difficult to be truly happy if you don't forgive someone because it manifests into anger. So for me, to forgive, is to feel happy once again. I'm too carefree of a person to let what others do weigh me down for long.

If you really want to help your xBGF to forgive you, so she can move on and be happy, then I would suggest a heartfelt apology to her for hurting her. This may help her to forgive you eventually and move her to an emotionally happier place for herself.

Something in your post makes me wonder if you are still hopeful that she will R with you, is my feeling right?

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 5:12 PM, April 14th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
HelpBLV
Member
Member # 27914
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, April 14th (Wednesday)

Something in your post makes me wonder if you are still hopeful that she will R with you, is my feeling right?

You're absolutely right... I don't think there's anything left, I'm hopeful, but just want her to heal properly, and want to know how to help her heal if I can...


Me: FWBF
Striving to work towards R as xBGF indicates she doesn't want to
D-Day: 2/7/10

Posts: 118 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Concord, CA
nothereorthere
Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, April 14th (Wednesday)

HelpBLV

All you can do now is be TOTALLY honest with her. If you really love her and sincerely put the time and effort in, maybe in time she'll want to R. If not, there's not much you can do, she's got to want it. AND, a lot can depend on how sincere and honest you really are about it all. Good luck. Either way, I hope you both heal and you learn from your mistakes.


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
nothereorthere
Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, April 14th (Wednesday)

HelpBLV

'xOW: Former BS, Divorced, Coworker (32)'

I noticed you have the OW listed in your post. Makes me wonder if you still have feelings for her or feel sorry for her? She has no place in your life, not even in your post. How do you think your XBGF would feel if she saw your post?? Just food for thought.

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 9:59 PM, April 14th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, April 22nd (Thursday)

For BSs: how many of you have ever been tempted to cheat (before you knew of your spouse's affair)? If you were, what stopped you? Was it the respect & love for your spouse, refusal to violate your own personal code of morals, or something else?


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1916 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, April 22nd (Thursday)

I would not want to look at myself in the mirror after if I cheated. I love my reflection right now it is an honest one.
I also love my spouse..


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
nothereorthere
Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, April 25th (Sunday)

heartbroken0903

Right before my FWH's A, the thought to cheat did cross my mind, because he was so mean with the way he was acting and speaking to me. I didn't feel loved by him. The thought would pop into my mind and right away I would realize that I still love him, and morally I wouldn't feel right about cheating. After his A, I had the opportunity to cheat with a friend that had feelings for me. I thought about it because I needed validation at the time, and it was nice to be around someone that cared about me after my FWH's A showed me he didn't care for me anymore. Again, I still realized that I didn't stop loving him overnight. And, I knew if I went through with an A, I would find it difficult to live with myself. I'm glad I never went through with it out of love for my husband and respect for myself.

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 12:03 PM, April 25th (Sunday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, April 25th (Sunday)

heartbroken

Also I wanted to state that while my husband was pushing me away because of his intent and feelings going towards the OW (which he denies now) but anywho it had me feeling lonely and confused. I wanted love sooo bad and was probably as close to having an affair I have ever been in my marriage. Sooo I was soo lonely and vulnerable. I never will go thru that ever again.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
icbtih8
Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, April 25th (Sunday)

As far as knowingly falling for an A, I've never been tempted to cheat though the opportunity has been there. How do I explain it. It's like having a bowl of ice cream (with the works!) placed in front of you and someone tells you not to eat it. Problem is that you are not very fond of ice cream so you do go for it. It does nothing to you just sitting in front of you. That's the best way I could describe it.

As far as slipping down the slope sort of unknowingly, it almost happened once. What stopped me was a combination of my own morals, love for my H, respect for everyone that could have been involved, and what my future children would say about me if I had done anything.


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
ohell
New Member
Member # 27404
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, April 26th (Monday)

How do I as the BW not make things worse? From the WS standpoint how do you cope? I dont know what I am trying to say. I have such a hard time looking at my husband. I don't look at him w/the love in my eyes that I used to have. How do explain to him w/out hurting him worse. He tells me how so sorry he is. To a certain degree I believe he is sorry I just never fully know if its because he was busted or if he is sorry for the devastation. What emotions do you go through. He tells me doesnt ever think about it, its in the past, its over with, he has no feelings for her or thoughts whatsoever. Can that be possible?


BW 37 yrs old
WH 42 yrs old
Married 15 years
4 kids
D-Day 1/6/10

Posts: 42 | Registered: Jan 2010
Rise And Shine
Member
Member # 27513
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, April 28th (Wednesday)

For BSs: how many of you have ever been tempted to cheat (before you knew of your spouse's affair)? If you were, what stopped you? Was it the respect & love for your spouse, refusal to violate your own personal code of morals, or something else?

About 7 years ago, I had a short term assignment lasting about 2 weeks with a man outside of my business. We spent every day together looking for particular antique furniture.

We got along with one another instantly and I enjoyed the time we spent together. One day towards the end of the assignment, He was standing very close to me as we looked at an old chair. I remember that I liked his closeness. I remember feeling that I wanted him to stand even closer. I also remember the feeling of panic that came over me!

The situation was ripe for an affair. We never talked about our problems. There were never any sexual innuendos. It was just quiet and easy and it felt good to me and I could sense the feeling was mutual.

I left at the end of that meeting, quit my job, and blocked any calls from this person. I made myself fall off the face of the earth as far as he was concerned and without any explanation.

Why?

I knew an A would hurt my H but at that time I honestly had no idea the scope of the pain it would have caused him. So that's not why I didn't have an A.

I didn't have an A because I knew myself all to well. It would have been an EA/PA and I was afraid that I wouldn't have been able to continue loving my H...and I loved my H.

We also have 4 children together and my sense of responsibility towards them has always been far greater than my own needs. I wasn't about to do anything that would break their home and lives the way they know it.

It wasn't easy walking away from the "feeling". It sent me into a bit of a depression for awhile. It wasn't the man I missed because truth be told, I didn't know him. It was feeling that feeling once again after so many years of coming to terms with the fact that the "feeling" evolves into a deeper married love.

7 years later, I find out that my H had an A. Now I know how deep the pain would have been for him had I acted on my feelings all those years ago.

Today, I wear my fidelity badge with honor. It takes a lot of strength to do the right thing and I'm proud that I have what it takes.

I'm just a little pissed that for years to come I have to wait and see if WH now has what it takes also.


April 25, 2009

Posts: 3263 | Registered: Feb 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, April 28th (Wednesday)

Heartbroken: I will acknowledge now that my H & I had been drifting apart for years - but I was just too busy with our family, work, etc. to notice - or- I thought that was the way it was supposed to be. But, I wasn't really unhappy in our marriage until about 6 months before DDay & about 1 year into my H's affair. During that period of time, a man that I considered to be a friend - not a good friend - but the kind of friend that I've always had a fun, flirty kind of relationship with - asked me out to lunch. I wondered what his intentions were as others seemed to think he was interested in more than a friendship. Anyway - I got kind of panicky before our lunch about what I would do if he was looking to go beyond friendship and I have to say - I thought how it felt nice to be wanted by someone, but I knew that no one could replace my husband. Despite our problems, I felt like no one could know me on the level that my husband did and still love me the way my husband did. I told this to my husband after DDay and he said "You're a better person than me".
I don't know about that - well.... maybe on the issue of commitment I'm better than him...lol... but I am the kind of person that almost always thinks about consequences before acting. I'm a planner. My husband is more of a spontaneous, passionate type - does whatever without thinking of consequences - goes beyond the A - goes for drinking to excess, etc.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 7:50 PM, April 28th (Wednesday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
m334455
Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, April 29th (Thursday)

For BSs: how many of you have ever been tempted to cheat (before you knew of your spouse's affair)? If you were, what stopped you? Was it the respect & love for your spouse, refusal to violate your own personal code of morals, or something else?

Yes, a friend of my WH pursued me rather persistently at one point in time. I was VERY tempted; This man is someone I considered leaving my WH for when WH and I were dating. I think at the end of the day, the reason I didn't would be a combination of a *lack* of respect for the man pursuing me (a bigger factor) and also respect for and love for my husband and for his wife (a lesser reason) and respect for myself (a bigger factor.)

I actually had to go to extraoridinary lengths to deter this guy and finally I had to involve his wife to get him to back off -- I was afraid if I didn't I'd eventually rationalize my way into an A.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, May 2nd (Sunday)

Yes.... it had never even been a thought for me in over 25 yrs of marriage... even through the very tough times of his alcoholism..etc.
But I was finally pushed to that edge during his affair years (he had a 5 yr LTA).
At the time I had no clue that he was having an affair... I didn't realize that his depression, anger, heavy drinking, and detachment and distancing himself from me and the kids was due to an affair....
but, I was at the end of my rope in terms of his detached behavior and angry outbursts toward me.... I happened to meet up with an old high school friend and he was very, very flattering-good for my ego at a time when I was not feeling very good about myself, my marriage, my life....
so, yes, I did fanatsize about how my life could be different with a different man...
what did I do? I told my husband that I wanted a divorce-that I didn't want this kind of marriage in my old age.... he cried and told me that he didn't want to divorce....
I eventually, backed down, tried a number of things to change our life to help snap him out of the depression (moving etc.).....meanwhile... unbeknownst to me... he was in the middle of the affair and ...continued it for 2 yrs after my threatening to divorce!
so.. I guess deep down inside I knew that his detachment was very serious.....even without knowing about the affair..


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
crushed again
Member
Member # 26138
Default  Posted: 11:33 PM, May 2nd (Sunday)

For BSs: how many of you have ever been tempted to cheat (before you knew of your spouse's affair)? If you were, what stopped you? Was it the respect & love for your spouse, refusal to violate your own personal code of morals, or something else?


Very close! Unbeknowst to me WH was already gone from our M when someone I kinda knew kept 'coming on' to me every time our paths crossed. We happened to be at an out of town function and he invited me back to his hotel. I considered it, very seriously. Then I thought 'what are you doing'?! Just because you don't have the best M in the world this is no way to solve problems. I actually started shaking and praying. I also looked deep in my heart and thought I cannot do this to someone I took vows with. I will be honest, after I found out about WH's A I regretted my decision to say NO. That's how messed up I was. Do I think about an RA now? Yes. More than I should. But w/me it's all fantasy. As much as I am beginning to loath my WH for what he's done (and the truth be told I think continues to do) I just am not made for an A. I need to find my own happiness and peace within myself. Not by some flattering stranger.


"Don't you worry your pretty little mind because people throw rocks at things that shine!"
~I guess living in limbo is my "new normal"- stinks!~

Posts: 713 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Dreaming of a far better place!
undestructable
Member
Member # 28239
Default  Posted: 12:23 AM, May 3rd (Monday)

I was tempted a couple times to cheat. It was always the idea of what it would do to WS and our relationship that stopped me. I always asked myself "Would this really be worth it??"

I also try (esp. now, and encourage WS to do the same) to be vocal about my temptations and tell WS if I am feeling attracted or feeling a "spark". Yes, it's uncomfy for us both but much better than the alternative! I have definitely found that verbalizing it takes a lot of the "appeal" out of the interesting other person, because it removes the delicious secrecy.

I am very cautious because I understand how these things start, even before the A and D-Day, just from life experience, so whenever I found myself having thoughts about someone that I wouldn't want to share with WS, and that person was in contact with me in some way, I stepped back. Way back.

WS has none of the life experience or relationship experience that I do, however. Not to excuse her but she just doesn't. It was much easier for her to believe her EA was "just" a friendship at first, though I saw it as a danger all along. She's really naive about people in some ways, and too trusting.

Anyway, I was cheated on with my first marriage, probably another factor in what kept my perspective for me. I'd BTDT and couldn't put another person through it.

[This message edited by undestructable at 12:26 AM, May 3rd (Monday)]


Me: 38
FWS: NAWIDU - 33.
Kids: 3 (blended, same sex couple)
R since DDay: 3/5/10
7 years in June

“...cuz i got tossed out the window of love's El Camino
and i shattered into a shower of sparks on the curb.." Ani DiFranco


Posts: 93 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: texass
mdsjmom98
Member
Member # 4931
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, May 3rd (Monday)

I actually had someone interested in me. It was a customer where I worked. His wife had cheated on him, and he had a revenge A. He admitted it to me, and I think I was so shocked that I blurted out my situation. From there, I found myself looking forward to him coming in.
So we started meeting for break and talking about our situations. I could tell he was very remorseful, and he was divorced because of it. I told him I was still very mad and bitter. He said "Ok, then let's make arrangements to get together" I was so shocked, and even though I looked forward to seeing him, for him to actually put it out there just blew my mind. I snapped, "No, I won't stoop to that level"
So I guess what I'm saying is that once I was confronted with the possibility, even as angry as I still was, I knew I couldn't do it because of the pain it would cause.
I really believe it was his plan all along to make me confront that.
He was so cute, kind, and understanding, it would've been so easy to have an A with him, but once confronted with the possibility, I just couldn't do it.


Him - WH - 45
Me - BS - 44
OW - my niece - 38
Married 24 years
2 kids (boys) 13, 21
Reconciling 7 years

What doesn't kill you will make you stronger.


Posts: 1280 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Illinois
shockedandstuned
Member
Member # 27153
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, May 3rd (Monday)

m334455

Many opportunities had been there for me, but for many reasons I didnot take advantage. First I take my vows very seriously, I made a commitment to my family, friends and God and I made a promise to my WW to love, honor and obey in sickness and health.
The other reasons were, Honor and integrity and the respect for my wife and son were place far ahead of anything I wanted, everything I ever did was with both of them in mind.
Just prior to getting married my WW and I said to each other if at anytime we met someone else we would ask the other for a Divorce before doing anything physical and if the other found someone else we would part as friends just like we started out.
Unfortunately I was the only one who had the respect and honor to not cheat. This is what hurts the most, our personal promise and vows made in front of everyone meant nothing to WW. Worse she did not care what damage she would cause to my son and I.
I hope this helps answer your question.
We are currently separated and I have still not even kissed another woman and will not until the divorce goes through. I guess I am just not wired the same as some others, the vows even after all of this crap still means something to me.


There were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded.So I moved out and moved on and I am happier for it.

BS (me) 47
WW 40
1 son 11
D Day 23 Dec 09
Admitted to Affair 17 Jan 10
April 08 told her I want a Divorce
June 2010 Moved


Posts: 574 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Massachusetts
luvedmypbear
Member
Member # 25690
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, May 3rd (Monday)

In the first month of marriage, an attractive married co worker came on rather strong......We were fast friends, made each other laugh, etc.

My stbxwh surprised me with flowers one day in my office and he walked in on us chatting. He saw the connection immediately and was desperatly jealous. I assured him that I would not have bothered getting married if I was interested in pursuing other men.

Then I was very clear with co worker (I was actually his boss, so VERY clear) and that was that. Coincidentally, at the same time hsi future AP (POS MOW "friend) was blatantly grabbing my h's ass and asking me if he had a big pecker in public.
My H did not think this was inappropriate.

Am I more moral? NO.
Am I a better person? NO.

But, I did get married and understood what it meant, that it would be hard sometimes and that he was my one and only.

I also have always been very self assured, and known what I wanted and what I could handle from life. I also don't value sex above people I love. It a nut shell, I love myself, but it's not all about me.


D-Day July 14, 2009
3 kids (B7, G6, B2)
BW, 37
D and healing, one day at a time

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Sep 2009
SouthernGal
Member
Member # 27315
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, May 3rd (Monday)

I hate the idea of sounding like a pompous or pious a$$ ...

But I have never been tempted to cheat. Not once.

My first husband cheated on me several times (7 times in less than 2 years).

I decided then (at the ripe old age of 20) that I would never hurt another person that way.

Add that to my religious beliefs ... and no, I've never even been tempted to cheat.


BS (Me) XWH (him) M nearly 16 yrs
1 DD (teens)
D-day #1 12/09, #2 2/10
Divorced 10/6/10

Posts: 3862 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The Deep (Fried) South
AttemptStrength
Member
Member # 27947
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, May 3rd (Monday)

I have been hit on but never once had the idea to cheat cross my mind. In high school I was in a LTR and I ended up drunk and making out with another person, nothing that heavy,mostly kissing. I felt so sick at myself I was up all night and called ant told my BF when I knew he'd be awake.

I felt so bad over just a little groping and kissing that I could NEVER stomach an affair. I'll admit in my marriage we were drifting apart and I thought about divorce but never once did I think about cheating on him.


BS me
WS him x2 A's
1 autistic DS

I'd never have spent the money on a wedding dress if I knew I was just going to a costume party.


Posts: 1991 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Wisconsin
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, May 4th (Tuesday)

To add to heartbroken's question, how many BS have told there WS of potential opportunities to have an A? The reason I ask is because for those where the potential existed, however brief, or however unrecognized it may have been at the time, was there a moment that you were flattered? when your ego was stroked? If you keep that secret from your WS, doesn't that present a problem in the M or in R?

My BW and I have both had good friendships with members of the opposite sex. Both of us recognized that some of those friendships could put us on a slippery slope and we have both had the opportunity to have an A (I had one, she didn't). Now that we are in R, we have talked about this openly, those relationships/friendships that stroked our ego's or had teh potential to be a slippery slope. Prior to my A, we didn't talk about these things. I think we held onto these things because they made us feel good. Isn't that something that each partner in a committed relationship has the right to know about?

Just curious of others thoughts on this, not so much the actual answers to any of the questions.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
MelisssaZZZ
Member
Member # 25953
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, May 4th (Tuesday)

well i had opportunity to have an A. I never did, because I valued my marriage more. Also, i did not wnat to hurt my H and did not want to hurt me too. as A seem a messy hurtful thing to me.. I did not have to cheat or to be cheated on to realise that..

As for telling him at the time - no I did not (probably should have told about temptation). My rational was - i decided against it - so there really was not potential for A. And as he already had all these low self esteem issues, insecurities etc it would not do any good. Little I knew that he was already in the A...

[This message edited by MelisssaZZZ at 8:48 AM, May 4th (Tuesday)]


Me BS - 37
WH 39
1 child - 4yrs
married 5 yrs, together 7
DD1 midmarch 09
DD2 early june 09
some more DD's of course - cannot bother to list
LTA (2 yrs) fully?? finished mid Aug 09
Status: Divorced Oct 2011

Posts: 1199 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: London, UK
refuz2bavictim
Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, May 4th (Tuesday)

was there a moment that you were flattered? when your ego was stroked?

Absolutely flattered. I thought Wow. Somebody thinks I'm pretty and is paying all of this attention to me. Maybe I am not so bad after all. And then the alarm bells went off.

If you keep that secret from your WS, doesn't that present a problem in the M or in R?

I never thought about it, after I pretty much shot the person down. While I was flattered, I knew I couldn't cross the line. In the instance where it was someone my FWH was an acquaintance with, I made myself more distant with that person from that point forward.
I did eventually tell my FWH after his A was exposed.
I wasn't looking for fun, and truthfully while I was flattered by the attention, the idea of another man touching me, felt repulsive. I projected in my mind what would happen had that line been crossed...I guess you could say that I actually entertained the idea in my mind. And when I got past the part of being flattered by the attention, the thought of touching another man intimately, seemed...disgusting. He would smell different, feel different etc...
So perhaps I should have told him right after it happened, but I didn't. I don't think it created any problems, since I was the boundary that ended any possibility of infidelity with that or any other person.
When I did tell him, it was more like I was trying to compare our situatons. I realized that when he was in exactly the same situation, he wanted to enjoy another person. I couldn't wrap my head around that. How could I be repulsed while he was enticed kind of a thought.
That is the short version of my thought process...hope that's helpful.

[This message edited by refuz2bavictim at 9:03 AM, May 4th (Tuesday)]


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2360 | Registered: Jan 2010
AttemptStrength
Member
Member # 27947
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, May 4th (Tuesday)

I've had opportunities and yes it's flattering. My H knows about it and it hasn't been a problem because he knows I would never do something like that to him. I have to much respect for myself and the vows I made to do such a thing.


BS me
WS him x2 A's
1 autistic DS

I'd never have spent the money on a wedding dress if I knew I was just going to a costume party.


Posts: 1991 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Wisconsin
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, May 4th (Tuesday)

Thank you all for your responses. I'm not trying to go against the guidelines by generalizing, but I guess I just wonder if there is somehow such an inherent difference in the "mind of a WS" vs. the "mind of a BS"...in the sense that there can be the exact same set of circumstances in the M, or in life in general, or even internal stuff (self-esteem issues, etc.) and one partner will react by cheating while the other won't. Not trying to generalize...just trying to understand.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1916 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Prayin4Daylight
Member
Member # 15710
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, May 4th (Tuesday)

Baxter,
Interesting question ...

My husband and I have been together since we were 18. There have been times when both of us have had someone outside interested . We always talked about this, so I thought . I would tell him if someone hit on me and we would laugh about it .

In hindsight, the one person that H did not tell me about was OW. I now know that is because that one was just too close to home and he knew from the beginning that there was a real opportunity with her. I did not know of her ever until Dday .


Prayin

Elected Voting Vixen


Posts: 8444 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Upstate New York
icbtih8
Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, May 4th (Tuesday)

BaxtersBFF,

no, I've never felt flatterred. When guys would come on strong, I felt repulsed by it. I guess I took it as if they thought I was easy or something. But then again, relationship or not, I've always been repulsed by that type of behavior. And I don't just mean the "dirty old men whistling" types. Even the ones that were more "discrete" I would be turned off by them.

As far as if I told my WH about these interactions, I never told him specifically "I got hit on today" but we did generally talked about these things and I did tell him when he asked if I was hit on. I guess I just took it as shit that happens in everyday life that he knows happens but never has to worry about.

As far as the "almost EA" with a coworker - I'm not really sure what to call it - there was no flattery involved - unless you take being seen as competition as flattery. I did tell my WH about our interactions - "coworker passed the CPA", "coworker went on a cruise with his wife through Europe, said it was fun. We should look into doing something like that", etc - but I never told him about the point where I felt I was looking down the slippery slope. By then he was in the midst of his As and our communication was barely existent. Add to that my own foo issues - growing up I never felt heard, never felt that what I had to say was important thus never felt the need to communicate, especially when I felt WH "refused" to hear me out - and well I didn't tell him about it.

Post dday, I realized how wrong I was to not tell him anything then, regardless if he was cheating. I did tell him about it post dday. I wonder where we would have been if I had told him then. Could we have then opened the lines of communication which would have led to him confessing? Would he have used this information ad rationalization that his behavior was justified?

ETA: thinking about it, there was flattery. I did feel I was "listened to" by the cw.

[This message edited by icbtih8 at 11:48 AM, May 4th (Tuesday)]


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, May 4th (Tuesday)

Baxter

Oh I have had many many times where if I would of given the signal it is okay to hit on me. Hence bat my eyes a bit more reach over and touch the persons hand laugh stand a little tooo close etc etc. Or Stroke the other persons ego. I strongly believe it is all in how you handle yourself and the body signals you as a person send off as to how far the hit will go. There are the few OP that you just have to say look I am married I don't like being spoke to in that manner it is offending me as a married person. They usually back off quickly and respect you for saying it.
Now I never ran and told my husband such and such hit on me. I took care of the situation. I have never never spoke of my personal life to those people either. Again I believe that is opening up the I am available door. Or I need someone to talk to I am available if we connect emotionally type. Not.

I believe there are some of us like myself I hold my marriage vows dear to my heart. If I would ever ever cheat on my marriage it would be an exist affair. I don't think I am capable of such an act but I never thought my spouse was either.

We are human we all can make errors mistakes bad judgements. We are suppose to learn from them and not repeat them.

I will not run to my spouse and say such and such hit on me unless I can not back that person away from me. Then when I need him to let the person know their advances are not welcome.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)

Thanks for all the responses. I know BS in general won't have an A because they respect themselves too much, they don't want to cause/experience that kind of pain, it goes against morals and values. Prior to my A, I thought all of these same things about myself. So this was more of a "what if" question, not from the perspective of "what if I had an A" but from the perspective of "what if these conversations took place before the A or A's that brought us all to SI".

I'm sort of in the camp of icbtih8 in wondering if my BW and I would have been more open or recognized those times when our ego's were stroked by some source outside of our M, if we would have talked about things more, would I have been less likely to have an EA? Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to blameshift here.

So what makes it taboo for those who don't talk about this? If we get hit on or recognize that there is a potential A situation developing, would talking about it with our spouses help to make the M stronger? would it help each other to know that our spouses love us enough to be that open and honest with us? to let us know that they want that attention from us, not from others?

Just typing now...but the above situation is still about getting external validation and what do you do with that? Why do we feel good when others flatter us? Why do we keep it secret? What can a person do to not be so drawn into that realm?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
AttemptStrength
Member
Member # 27947
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)

For me it was flattering because my H never complimented me when I dressed up. Only on our wedding day. I'm a tom boy, I BARELY know how to use make up lol, and the only dress I own is my wedding dress. I have skirts and some more female clothing however.

But as I said my H never complimented me. His mom would say how nice I looked, or tell me how amazed her friends were seeing me dressed u p and asked why I don't do so more often, hell his uncle would compliment me. Never my H.

So while it was flattering there were times I would flat say "I am married" or "I'm here with my husband." to guys and they would leave it at that. I would have LOVED if the H had been the one to compliment me. I would have loved for him to open up to me.


BS me
WS him x2 A's
1 autistic DS

I'd never have spent the money on a wedding dress if I knew I was just going to a costume party.


Posts: 1991 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Wisconsin
refuz2bavictim
Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)

Why do we keep it secret?

I just thought of something on that particular topic. I kept it secret because I knew the acquaintance's wife. I was certain that she would think it was somehow my fault. So I was hard on him, distanced myself, and thought that would do it. In retrospect I would have told her, even if it resulted in her thinking that. But at that time....I hadn't walked in the shoes of a betrayed person. Because when I really think about it now....He was betraying her. Even though I exercised my own boundaries, I could have/should have clued her in to the lack of his.
While I was flattered I still knew what he was doing was wrong and I didn't want to be associated in any way shape or form, with it. I just wanted to "get away", and take my ego boost with me maybe???? Not sure. I am not sure if feeling flattered is wrong, in and of itself, but certainly not outing his intentions was. Now I can say I don't feel like it was flattering...I did at the time....Now I think even the act of him hitting on me is disgusting.


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2360 | Registered: Jan 2010
Rise And Shine
Member
Member # 27513
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)

Baxter, I never told my H about my brief attraction to another man. At the time I thought it would serve no purpose but just hurt him.

Today I feel different. I believe that any recurring feelings of attraction (and I mean anything more than once!)needs to be exposed instantly. I think it's an important step to preventing A's from happening.


April 25, 2009

Posts: 3263 | Registered: Feb 2010
icbtih8
Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)

i don't think there is anything wrong with flattery as long as you don't let it get to your head. i think you should accept flattery but not let it define or drive you.


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
chasingpavements
Member
Member # 24325
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)

After Dday and after H came back home from our separation, a guy that I'd gone out with once (while we were separated) emailed me... just to see how I was doing.

H was still in the fog at that time and yes, it was VERY tempting to email this guy back and start chatting. I knew he really liked me and that was why we'd only gone out for lunch the one time. I was too messed up during my separation to think I was even close to dating anyone.

Anyway, yes, I did immediately tell H about the email and even about the temptation to email him back. I knew H would respond in an angry way and I wanted to make sure that I had that extra emotional ammunition to keep myself from reasoning that it was okay to keep in contact with this guy.

Before the A, when people would hit on me, I shut them down pretty quickly and always told my H about it... normally, I was complaining about it to him. I just didn't really see myself with anyone else; I only wanted my H's attention.

Now, mostly, I think I just wouldn't want to be involved with anyone else, if R doesn't work out. Too many married men hit on me when I was separated for me to feel comfortable being vulnerable with anyone.


"I personally believe "the one" - that special partner, the soul mate, that person that becomes intoxicated by love for us -
Well shoot, I think that the one that needs to feel that way is us, for ourselves."
wisdom from Healing Tree

Posts: 712 | Registered: Jun 2009
crushed again
Member
Member # 26138
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)

BaxtersBFF:

WH and I used to tell eachother EVERYTHING. Hence, time goes by, we get older, and sometimes I felt the flattery from somebody else didn't always have to be shared. It was a nice thought I'd pull out on a bad day.But never once considered acting on it.
Also WH has always been the jealous type, so I figured why upset him w/something as trivial as a compliment. He would always step right in when he saw me getting some attention. Like a child he would always make sure I knew when someone else found him attractive. Like w/OW #1. He would come home from work and everything was Brenda says I have a nice butt, Brenda says I look good for my age, blah, blah, blah.
Now w/OW#2 he was very tight lipped. I think that's because A#1 was only an EA and very short lived. With A#2 I got ALL the typical talk- ILUBNILWY, rewriting of marital history and so on. Also I was always getting accused of cheating. So, I never kept secrets about "outside" attention but WH certainly did! Also he's not interested in everything about my life like he used to be.
Hope that answers your question. Sorry for the ramble.

And sometimes I think we keep stuff like "outside attention" a secret so as not to hurt our spouse...


"Don't you worry your pretty little mind because people throw rocks at things that shine!"
~I guess living in limbo is my "new normal"- stinks!~

Posts: 713 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Dreaming of a far better place!
RUKiddingMe?
Member
Member # 27967
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)

Baxters - I know that you've probably had your question answered, maybe not, but I felt I needed to chime in here. Not sure how long this is going to be.
Before, my husband's A, neither of us would have EVER thought we would do such a thing. However, he did have an A. I knew he was depressed, felt "less than a man", etc. He was always complaining about being broke, worked 2 jobs to take care of his family and it just was never enough. He was making good money before the economy took a turn for the worse. (Just a little background). Anyway, after this happened (the A), it literally scared the HELL out of me. If there was ever ANYTHING that I felt TOTALLY safe with, it was the fact that my H would NEVER stray. . .NO MATTER WHAT! But he did!
I immediately thought to myself, "If this could happen to him (if he could do this), then so could I!"
What scares me is everyone on here saying that they would NEVER. Well, maybe NOW, after we've been through this HELL first-hand. Yes! I could almost bet on my children's life, that I would NEVER go there. I feel the same about my FWH now, too. But before, our radar's weren't up. WE might like to think that they were, but they obviously were not. I think that is very dangerous to say that this would NEVER happen or we would NEVER do something. I think that saying these things and thinking these thoughts actually made us more vulnerable, allowed us not to keep our guard up, because we "thought" we were ABOVE it. Not so! This is my belief. I don't care who you are, the Devil knows your weaknesses and he will play on them. And if you aren't careful, he will win. We "thought" we were careful. But we were obviously lying to ourselves, or we weren't careful enough. The emotionally weak are vulnerable. Each of us has been in that state at some point. Perhaps if there were a perfect storm at that time, I can't say that any of us would have been above it. Be careful, if you think you are.

***I'm not trying to rowl anyone up. I just wanted to give some food for thought for ALL of us.


DDay(s): 12.20.09 & 2.23.10
Trickled Truth
Me: BS 42
Him: WS 48
Grieving the fact that we're "Just another statistic" and we can't get a "Do Over"
Married: 20 years
Children 3: 16, 15 & 11
Reconciling

Posts: 262 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Texas
nothereorthere
Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)

I'm sort of in the camp of icbtih8 in wondering if my BW and I would have been more open or recognized those times when our ego's were stroked by some source outside of our M, if we would have talked about things more, would I have been less likely to have an EA?

Baxter,

My FWS and I did bring it up when we felt someone else was flirting with the other. He usually said something because he was jealous and got angry. I usually let him know that it seemed to be going to his head and reminded him that he should have boundaries. I was always a little irritated by other men flirting with me when it was so obvious by the ring on my finger that I was married. He on the other hand, seemed to get an ego stroke from it.

As for after my FWH's A, I mentioned earlier that a friend of mine let me know he had feelings for me. I was tempted because I needed validation after my FWH showed me with his affair that he didn't care about my feelings. But, I am happy I didn't follow through and I ended all contact with that person.

I'm not trying to be mean, but I do feel that most people that have affairs have less boundaries and low self esteem. They seem to think in more selfish terms then those that don't have affairs. I think you will find that most people that choose not to have an A, have more confidence and set better boundaries. Also, they seem to take the time to consider others feelings before proceeding.

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 9:36 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Wayward_Angel
Member
Member # 28452
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, May 6th (Thursday)

new WS here, 2 weeks post Dday, and I would like to know how I can help reinforce in his mind that it was NOT HIS FAULT! because until I joined this site yesterday I was in denial, and I tried to blame him. I feel awful I've told him I take 100% responsability and apologized for trying to blame him. Is there anything else I can do to help restore my beautiful husbands confidence in himself? It was low to begin with, but he is an amazing man (which makes me feel even worse that I did what I did) My A was linked to SA & ED issues. It was not emotional in any way, he knows this.

Let me tell you about him, he's 6'6" (I'm 5'9" so to find someone taller than me was so grat!) We will have been marries 3 years in July. This man is my hero and I've told him so, he inspired me to get off drugs and clean up my life! He's rescued me more than a few times, and I look up to him. He is my rock. How can I help him to see that?


Dday 4/21/2010
Me: WS 25
Him: BS 30

Posts: 266 | Registered: May 2010 | From: Dallas, TX
AttemptStrength
Member
Member # 27947
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, May 6th (Thursday)

It will take a lot of time.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/joseph.asp

That might give you some insight into some of his pain. I suggest reading as much of the Healing Library as you can in the upper left there. Start with the BS stuff so you can understand to the best of ability why he reacts the way he does and the WS stuff to see what you can do to help him.

Edit: This http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250 is a wonderful post to read in the WS forums.

[This message edited by AttemptStrength at 11:39 AM, May 6th (Thursday)]


BS me
WS him x2 A's
1 autistic DS

I'd never have spent the money on a wedding dress if I knew I was just going to a costume party.


Posts: 1991 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Wisconsin
littlebarbrat
Member
Member # 28291
Default  Posted: 10:37 PM, May 6th (Thursday)

Not just Friends is a great place to start. It will explain perfectly what he is feeling. Have him read it with you. Also, get both of you into IC.


BS Me:30
WS Him: 40
2 healthy, active boys.

I'm still alive but I'm barely breathing
Just praying to a God that I don't believe in
'cause I got time while she got freedom
'cause when a heart breaks no it don't break ev


Posts: 75 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Kentucky
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, May 16th (Sunday)

Question for BSs: is "I don't remember" ever a valid statement?

Something AttemptStrength just asked in the BS Questions for WS thread got me thinking. Now, my STBX/BH is not interested in R and so does not care to ask questions. But if he did, and he asked me how many times I had sex with the OM/ex, for example, or how many times we saw each other over the course of the 5.5 months, I would honestly not know the exact number. I could give a close estimate, but there would be no way I could give an unequivocal "X number of times."

Is it possible for a BS to accept "I don't know" or "I don't remember" in a case like that?


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1916 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, May 16th (Sunday)

heartbroken0903

Doll I think a time line with what you think would be good. I don't know I don't remember is a slap in the face..
Hugs doll..


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
lucidlunacy
Member
Member # 23806
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, May 16th (Sunday)

With my WS this seems to be a common sense type of thing. For me there is a huge chasm of difference between asking for a specific number and asking a more general question. I'm not asking him to define Pi. I just want him to talk to me and go through with me whatever thought process he may be having about remembering or why he can't.

I simply want to be let into the boy's club and have him trust me enough to share what's really going on. There are reasons for not remembering or why something may seem insignificant. Fine, explain it to me. Take me by the hand and show me through it. That kind of honesty is intimate and loving. The best thing is to be loved for all faults, flaws, and wrong headed thinking. Just share it, go off on a tangent to explain difficulty in remembering or why you didn't think something was important. You give the person value, worth, and respect by treating their questions and concerns the same way.

I'm not trying to crucify him in asking questions; I just really and honestly don't get it. Hell, we agreed and I fully expected him just to tell me if he didn't want to be with me. I would rather have been told the truth and had him leave than to lie and stay.


October 2008

through herculean Kafkaesque temerity...


Posts: 229 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Hmm... which circle of hell is this?
thegreatwife
Member
Member # 28119
Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, May 16th (Sunday)

OK - I need a WS to translate because I don't understand what WH means. So
what does WH mean when he says he hopes we're still trying to work on our M
6 mos from now but then breaks NC with OW by phone? What does it mean when he asks for another chance? What does it mean when he leaves to go stay at his parents and he says "I know me, if I don't appreciate what I'm going to lose then I'll keep slipping up" but is still in phone contact with OW? He goes to IC and MC, kept saying he was sorry in the beginning, tried to be transparent. Now it seems he can't break addiction to talking to OW.
Did you find it difficult to break with AP?
Limbo is a horrible place to be...


Me - Faithful Spouse 44
Him - WS 44
Married - 20 yrs
Together - 25 years
D Day 12/30/09
EA/PA - 18 mos

"Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." But what truly matters is what *you* think." Dr. Seuss


Posts: 125 | Registered: Apr 2010
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, May 16th (Sunday)

heartbroken0903

Also it is hard to understand that what was the truth then isn't the truth now. Your not the same person now as you was then.
A good MC will you and your BH see this.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3140 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
starsfadingaway
Member
Member # 28458
Concerned  Posted: 1:12 AM, May 17th (Monday)

I know I am to blame for all the hurt and pain that my BS is suffering...I want to be a positive influence on his healing...on the bad days is there anything from the perspective of a BS that a WS can do or say to help...even a little - so that you know that the WS is thinking of you and wishes that she could take the pain from your heart and give you back your smile?


Me (33) - WS
Him (33) - BS (Lotsa)
Together 13 years
"What the caterpillar calls the end, the rest of the world calls a butterfly" Lao Tsu
I wish for you that butterfly and I hope that I can be the flower you land on....

Posts: 86 | Registered: May 2010
Littlegirllost
Member
Member # 21769
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, May 17th (Monday)

Starsfadingaway,

The most significant thing he has done has been through the expression of his reverence for my life. Reverence is the core of compassion, respect, and choice. Reverence is regard. It is the epitome, to me, of acknowledging my importance just for being alive and being me.

IT IS NOT my importance to him or what I give him or bring to his life. When he was able to shift from seeing me as a component of his life... treating me in ways... a possession... a right to have me. Well, that didn't make me feel important. It made me feel used. I felt "So happy I can be of assistance in your soap opera to make you feel better."

Reverence on the other hand is simply holding the individual in the highest esteem... not for what they give you or how you need them or want things from them. Just them. Letting their life have value other than what you may ascribe to it. Not making their importance about how it relates to you.

It is the epitome of being able to see someone for who and what they are... and loving them even if they aren't doing a 'darn thing for you'. Reverence.


Me: BS 48 yrs.
FWH 50
D'day: 5/22/08
2 EA's, 1 PA during 5 month period of time
A Midlife Crisis gone wild
In R

Posts: 1301 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: New Jersey
SourCherryDrops
Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, May 17th (Monday)

heartbroken,

I am perfectly happy to accept an I cant remember if its related to something that could be forgotten... exactly how many times FWW had sex with OM 2 or 3 for instance...

but other stuff like that she had sex with OM 4... not so much..

but also things like EA with OM 5 started before or after OM 4... that sort of thing should be able to be remembered when put into context with each other... hence i think the suggestion to write down a timeline...


@ stars fading... litle girls bang on the money.... and saying to him what you just said here probably wouldnt hurt. Id just caution you though, he may well need room to grieve... to feel his anger.... dont suffocate him if you think he isnt coming along fast enough...


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
icbtih8
Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, May 17th (Monday)

Heartbroken, "I don't know" by itself sounds like you are hiding something. We BS want to know that you are willing to be completely truthful to us. A better response might be "I don't know but we had sex about __ times" or "we met up every _____" or even "I don't know but give me some time to recollect that detail" and then actually answer his question within a reasonable time.


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
mdsjmom98
Member
Member # 4931
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, May 17th (Monday)

I think as a BS we kind of have to accept the IDK's. I think sometimes they are still in the fog, so the answers are vague, and might continue to be.
Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on if your glass is half empty/half full!!) I know of all their encounters because she lives 900 miles away and she came and stayed at our house. There were a dozen or so encounters that he could recall, and I guess the rest I could live the rest of my life and not care, because the bottom line is whether it's once or 200 times, they still had the A, and knowing an exact number is not going to change that fact.
I'm sorry that you could not reconcile.


Him - WH - 45
Me - BS - 44
OW - my niece - 38
Married 24 years
2 kids (boys) 13, 21
Reconciling 7 years

What doesn't kill you will make you stronger.


Posts: 1280 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Illinois
stretch13
Member
Member # 26894
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, May 25th (Tuesday)

Littlegirllost - reverence. that was beautiful. i may share that with WH. i'm not sure if he'll get it, but whatever. thank you for defining the difference so well.


http://www.facebook.com/hardheadpress
http://www.amazon.com/Eli-Ely-Ezekiel-Tyrus/dp/0986042900/

http://hardheadpress.com/

life must be rich and full of loving--it's no good otherwise, no good at all, for anyone - j. kerouac


Posts: 3929 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: east coast
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, June 3rd (Thursday)

Question for BHs who did NOT reconcile (this includes those who are still married but do not consider themselves in R):

- how long after S/D did your feelings for your WW/exWW turn to indifference?

- how do you view your WW/exWW since learning of the affair? Does the knowledge of the affair color every thought/feeling/memory of her, or do you ever consider the so-called "good times"?


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1916 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
romanticidiot
Member
Member # 28655
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, June 4th (Friday)

heartbroken,

I'm still new at this -- just found out although I've "known" in my gut for a while -- but I'll take a stab at your questions.

how long after S/D did your feelings for your WW/exWW turn to indifference?

We've been separated for a year (but living like boyfriend-girlfriend with frequent meals, dates, intimacy) but I just found out about the affair. I didn't realize that it was a factor in her leaving... dumbass, right! Now that I've found out, indifference is happening very quickly. I still hurt but it's subsiding each day. I just don't care which way things go.

how do you view your WW/exWW since learning of the affair? Does the knowledge of the affair color every thought/feeling/memory of her, or do you ever consider the so-called "good times"?

I see her as totally pathetic and pity her. I still love her and always will in some way, but there is no way in HELL I'm reconciling if she refuses to address and deal with her considerable issues, and I don't see her doing that. It's sad.

The knowledge of the affair mainly makes me feel sick to my stomach. The guy is as broken as she and I know they did disgusting things together. He used her. I think they think they love each other, but there is no way that's true. She loves me. She's infatuated with him, which is weird because he's a total scumbag who used her as his personal cumbucket and ego stroker.

I haven't forgotten the good times. She's a good woman at her core. Mainly I just feel sorry for her, especially if she decides to D rather than face herself.


"When you're going through Hell, keep going." -Churchill

Posts: 720 | Registered: May 2010
WayCoolJr
Member
Member # 25331
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, June 4th (Friday)

heartbroken,

how do you view your WW/exWW since learning of the affair? Does the knowledge of the affair color every thought/feeling/memory of her, or do you ever consider the so-called "good times"?

Yes for me the so-called "good times" were greatly tainted. There were several times and things that were so special to me over the last four years that are now almost meaningless (this might change the further out I get). But knowing all of those things happened AFTER she totally checked out of the M kills them for me. Simple things from movies that were "ours" that got shared with the OM, to our only real family vacation, etc.

Plus not knowing how many of our 15 years together she wanted out. The thought does cross my mind that is was all a mistake for her, maybe for her she really did marry the wrong man.

how long after S/D did your feelings for your WW/exWW turn to indifference?

I guess I started to get indifferent while we were still together after the A. After 5 months of false R and continued contact, etc. I was cooked. Was waiting for that lightning bolt to strike her and make her realize she wanted to really work and fight to see if our M could be saved.

It was everything that happened after the A that shut me down and made me want to S/D. We have been officially S for about a month now. And her deciding to see OM again is what has been my final straw. In order for us to even find out if our M could work WW had to chose me over OM every time, and it didn't happen.

I guess the best way to put it is this: each time she kept something hidden from me, lied to me or avoided answering questions I became more distant. After a year and and escalation in the hiding, lying, etc. I'm almost 100% there.

I can say right now I want nothing more than for her to come back and throw herself 150% into the M. But I know that will never happen now.

So maybe its not total indifference, but a good level of acceptance.


BS-me-40
SWW-40 (2 year EA/10 Month PA)
Married 16 years
Daughter 7

D-Day 5/5/09
R - guess we never really tried. Never got full NC. WW has moved out and wants to see if it can work with OM.


Posts: 78 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: Midwest, USA
WhyAmILikeThis??
New Member
Member # 28887
Default  Posted: 1:28 AM, June 27th (Sunday)

I am trying to find some ideas to give my BS so he can be secure in knowing I am not doing anything now. I am looking for for some ideas to ease his mind. I have already suggested a keylogger program for the computer. He has complete access to my phone and phone bills. I also suggested GPS to him for the car. I am not looking for any ideas on how I can find out if he is investigating me? I just want to help ease his mind at all possible to help us through the R.


me WS 33
BH 32
D-day 6-4-10
2 D-day complete honesty 6-13-10

Posts: 33 | Registered: Jun 2010
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 1:46 AM, June 27th (Sunday)

WhyAmILikeThis, Welcome to SI.

In my opinion, the best thing you can do for your BS is to start showing him you want to become a better person. Let him know how ashamed you are for the destructive choices you made and want to understand better why you did what you did.

Then you follow it up with actions; start seeing an IC, start reading books on infidelity and improving your marriage, etc.

A good place to get started is "The Healing Library" right here on SI (Yellow Box Upper Left Corner). There are many good articles there.

A good article to get you started is call, "What the WS/BS Must Do To Reconcile"
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/reconcile_musts.asp

Print the article out and show it to your BS. Let him know how much he means and you will do whatever it takes to make things right.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 29 years, Happily Reconciled

Posts: 5616 | Registered: Aug 2007
mepe27
Member
Member # 18158
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, June 29th (Tuesday)

To whyamilikethis??
for me, just the offers you have made were a great help in and of itself, it showed he was anxious to prove he was honest, so thats a great start.
It's also important, imo, to listen and be comforting if the BS is freaking out about something, triggering. Often times once you figure out what the trigger is you can come up with ways to help ease that issue.

For example, whenever my H had to work late, i'd trigger, I couldn't explain it b/c working late didn't really have anything to do with the A, but I'd have a panic attack anyway, imagining he was using this as an excuse to talk or meet someone. We never talked about it really (b/c I hadn't put it all together yet ) but the next time he worked late he called me on his work phone (not his cell like he normally does ) and he talked to me for a bit then he asked if I'd like to be on speaker while he finished up, I did, I sat there an listened to him type and then when he finished he called me from his cell and talked to me the whole way home. I really felt reassured even though we never actually talked about my trigger or the A. So listen and watch and offer suggestions of ways to help. Being open to helping even if it seems weird or crazy to you, helps us feel more reassured and valued.


Me BW-39
H WH-41
Married for 10 years
Two boys 6yrs, 3yrs
D-Day 12/1/07
Got whole painful truth 2/2/08
5/15/2008 EA with co-worker, I left
6/1/08 - We are committing to R
"One falsehood destroys a thousand truths"

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: Georgia
jrsdad
New Member
Member # 28872
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, July 1st (Thursday)

WhyamIlikethis:

I never got a chance to R. My WW left and never came back. But if we were to reconcile. I wouldn't want to stick a GPS on her car or check her phone. It is belittling and requires him to check on you. I would want my W to be transparent and available. If she goes somewhere call me,"Hey if you need me I am going ________." I would want my W to treat me normally, when she loved me. Asking me to have lunch. Doing a lot of stuff together. I don't need to check her phone if she is with me a lot. If she is connecting with me daily. He's your husband not "big brother".


Me-BH 38 Her-XW 34
Married 7 years/Together 12
D-Day:6-4-2008 Divorced-11-14-2008
"Refrain your voice from weeping, And your eyes from tears; For your work shall be rewarded, says the Lord, And they shall return from the land of the enemy."

Posts: 43 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Washington
SourCherryDrops
Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 2:33 AM, July 2nd (Friday)

hi whyamilikethis,

there is a really good thread in the JFO forum that you might find useful.... now it is JFO so dont be going posting on anything.... and id caution you about reading other threads in there too... but this guide is particularly good and will i think answer a lot of your questions.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=362005

I would also like to add that you should think long and hard about how your appologising... make it genuine, a simple 'Im so sorry' means jack... in each appology pick out one specific hurt appologise for it, show him that youve really understood the full impact of your actions...

But ultimately it takes two to R... you can be the most remorseful WS on the planet, do everything by the book (the remorsefull WS book...not the 'other' one) and if he is unable to deal with it the R will fail.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
Mighty
Member
Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, July 2nd (Friday)

whyamilike this.. for tracking my WW since she conducted her affair normally during lunches..
We've looked at GPS applications for her smartphone. Basically I'd know where her phone is (more important than the car), and if I call, she better answer so she can't just leave it behind somewhere.


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
hopefulwife1985
Member
Member # 29216
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, September 11th (Saturday)

I've hunted around the site and if there is a thread on this question already, sorry....

Is there an answer to the "Why did you have an A?" question that is helpful to a BS?

I know that any answer which carries a whiff of blame shifting is not helpful.

Did anyone ever get an answer where they thought, "OK, now I get it. I understand why."

This is one of the few questions my BH has asked, but he's asked it several times. I say the A was 100% my responsibility, that I failed to protect my boundaries, and that I'm working on that. Then he asks again and I repeat that answer.

I've about decided there really isn't an answer that will satisfy him because there really isn't an answer.


Posts: 124 | Registered: Aug 2010
kdny
Member
Member # 760
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, September 11th (Saturday)

I'm sure the answer to that question is as individual as each person and each marriage.

Sometimes we ask "why" and we know there is no answer that will ever explain it.

Sometimes we really want to know if our WS has explored what it was within themselves that allowed them to make that choice.

So, the question you need to find out what it is that your BS is really asking.


Whether we remain ash or become phoenix is up to us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes the fine line between a nervous breakdown and knowing things will be okay is a pair of furry pants~unfound

Posts: 81335 | Registered: Dec 2002 | From: Slightly left of center, standing on my head
starsfadingaway
Member
Member # 28458
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, September 11th (Saturday)

Hi hopefulwife1985,

I am a WS, so not sure if this is what you are looking for as it is a question posed from the WS perspective but has some replies from BS also.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=226407&AP=1

if the link doesn't work it is currently on page 17 of the Wayward forum.

Goodluck.


Me (33) - WS
Him (33) - BS (Lotsa)
Together 13 years
"What the caterpillar calls the end, the rest of the world calls a butterfly" Lao Tsu
I wish for you that butterfly and I hope that I can be the flower you land on....

Posts: 86 | Registered: May 2010
icbtih8
Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, September 13th (Monday)

Did anyone ever get an answer where they thought, "OK, now I get it. I understand why."

sigh...no. for every reason anyone can come up with, i can identify a person with that justification that has never had an A. i just resign myself to not getting it. it happened for whatever reason. there is nothing logical that will make me say "i see".

Then he asks again and I repeat that answer.

it may be that he wants to know if your answers change to see if you've identified more reasons or deeper reasons. it could also mean that regardless of what you told him, it didn't quite register so he needs to hear it again. he could have also said it rhetorically, not really expecting an answer from you.

I've about decided there really isn't an answer that will satisfy him because there really isn't an answer.

i think there always is an answer. perhaps not one that we BS's understand, but there certainly *has* to be an answer. i'm at the point where i know i don't need to understand his reason, just as long as he knows it and is working to fix it, i'm good.

[This message edited by icbtih8 at 9:14 AM, September 13th (Monday)]


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
MelisssaZZZ
Member
Member # 25953
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, September 13th (Monday)

hopefulwife1985

Is there an answer to the "Why did you have an A?" question that is helpful to a BS?

what would help me is that very honest answer.. and it has something to do with boundaries but that is not it.. its looking into yourself and asking why did i feel entitled to have the affair.. what drove me to it? the answer is with you.. there might be catalysts in your relationship but the real answer lies within you. its similar for many, but individual..

after this question is really answered the next question is what to do so i am not vulnerable to the A again.. from what i gather it is v hard question and you probably need IC to get to the bottom of those 2..

I've about decided there really isn't an answer that will satisfy him because there really isn't an answer.

there is an answer you and him might not like it.. like why did you have bad boundaries at that point in time? its a lot of why questions to be asked to yourself.. and remember its because you want to find the answer for you - that is important thing... otherwise there is always the risk of history repeating itself..

do you have IC helping you to get to the answers?


Me BS - 37
WH 39
1 child - 4yrs
married 5 yrs, together 7
DD1 midmarch 09
DD2 early june 09
some more DD's of course - cannot bother to list
LTA (2 yrs) fully?? finished mid Aug 09
Status: Divorced Oct 2011

Posts: 1199 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: London, UK
JustWantHimBack
Member
Member # 29485
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, September 24th (Friday)

Hey, just some questions that maybe can give me some insight on my current situation.

Did you avoid being intimate with your WS because you would still think about the OP? If you did avoid intimacy, did time make it easier to not think about the OP during those times?

Or

Was there anyone that still had the intimacy and just tried to not focus on those thoughts? Did the thoughts eventually lessen as time passed?

I guess I'll explain my situation. After a little over a month of not being fully intimate me and my BBF finally were yesterday. He said that he was hoping that he wouldn't have thought about the OM but told me a little while afterward that the thought of him still lingers. I'm not sure what kinda of reassurance or advice I should give him.


Me(WGF/BGF)- 24, Him(XBBF/XWBF) -26
D-Day#1 - April 7, 2010. Full Disclosure - May 27, 2010. My D-day - October 10, 2010
He had a EA/PA August-whenever.
He's now moved on to someone new. Still giving me mixed signals. Sigh.

Posts: 166 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: New York
nothereorthere
Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, September 24th (Friday)

hopefulwife1985

I say the A was 100% my responsibility, that I failed to protect my boundaries, and that I'm working on that.

I think your BH already understands that you failed to protect your boundaries. Seems to me what he really wants to know is why you stepped over those bounderies when your suppose to love him. He probably feels like he wouldn't step over those boundaries because he loves you, so he probably wants to know why you gave yourself the right to do so. And, everyone is right that there is always a "why", but that's up to you to figure out because everyone's "why" is different. Good luck, hope that helps.

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 7:37 PM, September 24th (Friday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
nothereorthere
Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, September 24th (Friday)

JustWantHimBack

Did you avoid being intimate with your WS because you would still think about the OP?

Yes, there were times I did in the beginning. It's very difficult to be intimate with someone that has cheated on you without it making you wonder what intimacies was shared with the OP. It pops mind images in your head no matter how hard you try not to let it.

Did the thoughts eventually lessen as time passed?

I believe it's not time passing that makes it easier, but the work you put into it to help your BBF to deal with it.

I'm not sure what kinda of reassurance or advice I should give him.

I feel one of the thoughts that is worse when being intimate is wondering if my FWH is thinking of the OP, or is 100% focused on us. Reassuring your BBF that the OP is not in your head or heart during intimacy when your BBF gets upset will help over time, if you are consistant. Eventually your BBF will feel you mean it sincerely if you make a real attempt each and everytime the reassurance is needed. It's been five years for us and sometimes it still hits me when we're being intimate, but it dosen't linger and it dosen't have the same effect on me anymore.

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 8:00 PM, September 24th (Friday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
manAscending
Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, October 20th (Wednesday)

WS = Wayward Spouse
BS = Betrayed Spouse

fWS = Former Wayward Spouse
fBS = ?

There's a thread down in NB titled "Would you date a former WS?" and it make me ask myself if, as a WS, I would date a former BS. Then I realised that I've rarely (if ever) seen any BS on this site use the acronym fBS.

I was wondering, if you are a BS, have you or do you use the letter 'f' to designate that something about you has changed since being betrayed? I don't recall seeing the fBS acronym used much around this site.

Being betrayed is not something that you chose, it was something that happened to you. Is the hurt a more permanent type of hurt, in that once you're a BS, you're always a BS? Would using the term fBS signify the move from a victim stance to a more proactive stance? Sorry, I'm not being very articulate here, but perhaps you understand what I'm trying to ask.


Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
icbtih8
Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, October 20th (Wednesday)

manAscending,

I would not use the acronym fBS because the word "Betrayed" is already in past tense.

the only way i could see calling myself a "former betrayed spouse" is if i'm no longer married (as in former spouse that happens to have been betrayed). but even then, i feel that the experience of being betrayed is so profound that i will always carry it with me; sort of "my cross to bear." i will never trust another human being 100% with my heart ever again. and maybe that is a good thing. instead of simply trusting people, people will now have to earn my trust. much less fairytail-y.


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
manAscending
Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, October 20th (Wednesday)

Thanks, icbtih8. Your perspective makes sense to me.

Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
itsallgone
Member
Member # 32197
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, May 20th (Friday)

I REALLY need some help from WS's who have experienced "THE FOG". I found out about my husbands affair 4 weeks ago today and he disappeared for 4 days... since his return he has been a complete stranger to me...even looking in his eyes there is no recognition of the man that was my husband. He is cold, harsh, no compassioin for what I am feeling or going through, he has had moments of being agressive and angry. There is NO love in his eyes. My husband was loving and affectionate, complemetary and connected. Its like living with his evil twin. The weirdest thing is when he is holding the baby he is loving and affectionate and silly with her... but he will still act hateful to me even when he is holding her. I dont understand anything anymore but this complete personality change is baffling to me. He insists on a divorce and has not waivered from that at all. I had my husband one day...and my world fell apart the next.


Me BW: 37
Him: WS 37
Baby Girl 9 months old
Amazing Step Kids: G/10, B/8
DDay: 4/15
DIVORCING...and he is signing away all rights on our baby so he wont have to pay support. I'll have peace of mind that I never have to turn her over to the

Posts: 89 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Georgia
itsallgone
Member
Member # 32197
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, May 20th (Friday)

sorry... need to find the BS's questions for WS's link... disreguard above post.


Me BW: 37
Him: WS 37
Baby Girl 9 months old
Amazing Step Kids: G/10, B/8
DDay: 4/15
DIVORCING...and he is signing away all rights on our baby so he wont have to pay support. I'll have peace of mind that I never have to turn her over to the

Posts: 89 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Georgia
lost kiki
Member
Member # 29769
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, May 20th (Friday)

OK not sure if this question was asked.. But my question is about Lying..

How can you Lie in the face of your loved one so often??

Are you even aware of the lies after awhile??

Did you also Lie to the AP??


Me=BS

DDAY I (Married Whore) 8/8/2010
TT 8/28/2010
DDAY II (23yo) 9/23/2012
TT 9/26/2012


NC 9/3/2010 After she and I spoke for 2 hrs..GRRRRRR!!!!
NC with #2 9/24/12
Struggling thru with my Head Held High..
I'm moving slow but I a


Posts: 154 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: Illinois
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, May 20th (Friday)

How do you know if your WS is working on healing? How are they really different than before the A? When it comes down to it, what are the indicators you see that your spouse is healing themselves in such a way that you trust them enough to not cheat again?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
poopylala
Member
Member # 30119
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, May 23rd (Monday)

BaxtersBFF, I saw a huge change in wbf which allowed me to see he was working on himself- he agreed to CC when he previously flat out disagreed to go because it "meant we had failed" and he applied what we learned in CC to our real life problems. That was my biggest factor in believing he truly was changing. Seeing this was how I felt he was healing-he was changing previous behaviors that hurt both of us to proactive behaviors that focused on us. Also he was open to talking more and receptive to my questions which, during his A and his fog he wasn't receptive to them, so the fact that he was open to talking (he is a quieter introvert so his openness to talk was huge for me). I saw enough changes after DDay that when looked at altogether made me feel safe enough to begin to trust him.


BGF (me)- 24
FWBF (him)- 24
in a LTR

forgiven and in R :)

"To err is human.
To forgive,
divine"


Posts: 956 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Houston, TX
mostlymine
Member
Member # 31511
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, May 23rd (Monday)

@baxterbff- we are only 7 weeks out. My WH still says he can't promise me he won't cheat again because he is still figuring everything out. I'm encouraged and able to believe it won't happen again because before the A he hardly shared his thoughts and feelings. Now he tells me (I still have to ask what he's thinking). He is more open and honest. He was non confrontational and now he tells me what bothers him. I know if something like communication or interest from a woman happens he will tell me and we can deal with it together. Hope it helps

[This message edited by mostlymine at 11:03 PM, May 23rd (Monday)]


BS- me (30ish)
See profile for details
Getting divorced... Wh is addicted to MOW
I edit because of typos...auto corrects stinks!

Posts: 830 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Texas
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 6:16 AM, May 25th (Wednesday)

Thanks for the replies.

We talked a lot last year. It seems like beginning last summer the talking has been on the back burner due to life. We do talk now, but not like before, and not near as frequently.

So, without that component, that active part of healing, it almost feels like I'm not working on anything anymore. My opinion is that the transparency, honesty, NC and answering questions is the low-hanging fruit. It isn't hard to maintain that. I don't even think about it. The challenge now is finding ways to stay connected, to not go back to the inactive ways of our M that were present pre-A.

In short, I feel like I need to be doing something more.

When talking, not avoiding, and boundaries are in place and have become second nature, how do you maintain that closeness? I always feel like I need to be doing something and right now it doesn't feel like I am doing anything.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, May 25th (Wednesday)

Wow! Well Baxter, for starters, I think it is awesome that you are asking that question! My FWH will ask that once in a blue moon, but as you said, "life" has kind of gotten in the way of our reconnecting also.

Ask yourself, what can I do for my wife today that will put a smile on her face? What can I do that will remind her that I'm thinking of her and how much she means to me?

Ideas...

Hide a love note in her purse.

Give her a pedicure...yep gather up a basin of warm salty soapy water, soak her feet, scrub with a pumice stone, oil her cuticles, push back with an orange stick, and paint her toenails! If you feel like you don't know what you are doing, that's okay, she will love you for trying, and she'll get soft feet out of it! My H and I do this for each other occasionally.

Wash her car, or have it washed, and leave a rose on the front seat.

Chose a book that you both want to read, buy 2 copies, and read it together, meet in a coffee shop once a week after work, and discuss the book.

Tell her something about yourself that you have never ever shared with anyone before.

Go to the fragrance counter at the Dept store and bring home samples of perfumes that she might like to try out

Plan a weekend getaway, pick her up from work, and surprise her with it...

Do something with her that she likes to do, but you have never cared for doing...she will love you for it, and you might just find out that you enjoy it too!


me BS female 55/him WS 58
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 6763 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
Mandmr1
Member
Member # 31412
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, May 26th (Thursday)

I'm a BS and all of my post have been in JFO. I would like some input on the feelings you get and how often do you think about the AP? I would like my WS to be open and honest but she just will not do it. I finally saw the AP and I know for a fact that their LTA was pretty heavy and that there is NO WAY humanly possible for my WS to NOT think about the AP. It's only been 31/2 months since DDAY and the AP is DEFIANTLY in the bedroom as well as in MY mind all the time. Some insight is greatly appreciated.


I'm 54 (BH)
My wife 55 (WW)
Married 22 years now
Together 24 years barely
D DAY February 9th 2011
Wedding Anniversary February 14th
Daughter 21

Posts: 214 | Registered: Mar 2011
betrayedmomof3
Member
Member # 32093
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, May 27th (Friday)

Honestly, I feel that the fact that you spend your time throwing 2x4s at WS and answering questions for BS is so admirable. You are not forgetting. You are actively staying the course. This is obvious. But the things pain suggested are nice too.


Together 12 yrs, married 6
Dday from Hell 2/6/11
3 kids under 5
I would do anything to have my family in one piece but I know its shattered...

Posts: 108 | Registered: May 2011 | From: betrayedmomof3
horseluvr
Member
Member # 30097
Default  Posted: 12:23 AM, July 17th (Sunday)

oops wrong place sorry

[This message edited by horseluvr at 3:46 PM, July 18th (Monday)]


BS me WS him...3 great kids
DD 10-09 OW younger but doesnt look it,face looks like a dried up cow pie..note to c**tface:sunscreen

Posts: 2015 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: central calif
DeeplyRemorseful
Member
Member # 32796
Frustrated  Posted: 7:44 AM, July 17th (Sunday)

Ok, here goes nothing. My question is related to hear those special three words, I Love You, that are missed desperately from my H/BS. I realize I have no control as to when or if I will ever hear my H say I love you and I know this has to come from him on his time, more specifically if he ever feels it again. I am wondering if he will ever say them again to me. I have spoken briefly about this to H and he doesn't come out and specifically say "I Love you" he says, he had never stopped loving me before my A's. I just wonder if he still does deep down. I believe I have seen his love through his actions, have yet to hear. I have been asked to "hang in there", what does this mean? Thank you, any thoughts from BS will help.


DD 10/09
WS 40/ME
BS 45/HIM
No children
Married gtb 11 years
Been together gtb 20 years
Greatful every moment of every day my husband is here, we're together as a unit giving reconciling our best. Giving my husband the best of
me for as l

Posts: 65 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: DeeplyRemorseful
icbtih8
Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, July 17th (Sunday)

DR, did your BH say "I love you" often before the A?

If so, you will hear those words sooner or later.

If not, then it may be more difficult for him to say now. If words of affirmation one of your love languages then this may be something you want to work through in MC.


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
mostlymine
Member
Member # 31511
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, July 17th (Sunday)

@deeplyremorseful- in the healing library for the 180 it even says not to say I love you during the 180 because the WS isn't being lovable. Once my WS was out of the fog it was still hard to say ILY. Those words make me feel vulnerable sometimes. Just like people on the forum say about does WS's actions say what does his actions say? Even if he isn't saying the words what is he doing? Continue to say you are sorry, show him your remorse, and keep telling him how much he means to you. Once he feels safe again the words will come. If his actions are not loving.... Still do the things I stated above it might help him. Good luck and keep me updated!

[This message edited by mostlymine at 9:13 AM, July 18th (Monday)]


BS- me (30ish)
See profile for details
Getting divorced... Wh is addicted to MOW
I edit because of typos...auto corrects stinks!

Posts: 830 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Texas
kdny
Member
Member # 760
Red  Posted: 4:43 PM, July 17th (Sunday)

Some of you are putting questions for the WS in this thread.

This is the thread where the WS can ask questions of the BS.

For questions you want a WS to answer please use the BS Questions for WS thread.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=380200

[This message edited by kdny at 4:44 PM, July 17th (Sunday)]


Whether we remain ash or become phoenix is up to us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes the fine line between a nervous breakdown and knowing things will be okay is a pair of furry pants~unfound

Posts: 81335 | Registered: Dec 2002 | From: Slightly left of center, standing on my head
DeeplyRemorseful
Member
Member # 32796
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, July 18th (Monday)

mostlymine: ty for responding. I must add, before my A's he would tell me he loved me a couple of times on his own. As my profile reads, we've known each other almost 20 yrs, been married almost 11. H has told me he loved me before the A's, not a lot ( I'm not ungrateful when I say, not a lot). Thought I would make that clear. I said ILY more often, he would respond just about every time, he loved me also. For the must part, I felt as though I was the one saying it most. Some occasions, I would not get a response when I said it. Or I would get a response like, ok. He has expressed to me that his parents didn't react with each other in this way. He just wasn't brought up with saying it or hearing it expressed from family. That's just the way he felt. I accepted this. I on the other hand, heard and said those words often. This was my childhood. I also realize if its said too often, these words can appear disingenuous. Understandable. However, I am not being disingenuous when I say ILY to my husband. Just thought I would provide a little background. We spoke of this last evening. He understand my view of longing to hear ILY. I also understand why he stopped saying them, due to my A's. Before the A's he says he has never stopped loving me. So to update you. I understand he is in limbo and working things out on his own, while I assist and answer all???. He has asked me to"hang in there" to allow time. What does this mean in your thoughts? I believe I know. He will resume with expressing " I love you", when he is ready. I completely understand his thoughts. Please respond with your thoughts on this. Your thoughts are appreciated.

[This message edited by DeeplyRemorseful at 12:53 PM, July 18th (Monday)]


DD 10/09
WS 40/ME
BS 45/HIM
No children
Married gtb 11 years
Been together gtb 20 years
Greatful every moment of every day my husband is here, we're together as a unit giving reconciling our best. Giving my husband the best of
me for as l

Posts: 65 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: DeeplyRemorseful
DeeplyRemorseful
Member
Member # 32796
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, July 18th (Monday)

[This message edited by DeeplyRemorseful at 5:57 PM, July 18th (Monday)]


DD 10/09
WS 40/ME
BS 45/HIM
No children
Married gtb 11 years
Been together gtb 20 years
Greatful every moment of every day my husband is here, we're together as a unit giving reconciling our best. Giving my husband the best of
me for as l

Posts: 65 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: DeeplyRemorseful
DeeplyRemorseful
Member
Member # 32796
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, July 18th (Monday)

I wanted to make sure, I am in no way pushing him. I was simply inquiring, if he thought he might tell me on his own ever again. I don't deserve to hear those words until he is ready. Ty again


DD 10/09
WS 40/ME
BS 45/HIM
No children
Married gtb 11 years
Been together gtb 20 years
Greatful every moment of every day my husband is here, we're together as a unit giving reconciling our best. Giving my husband the best of
me for as l

Posts: 65 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: DeeplyRemorseful
mostlymine
Member
Member # 31511
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, July 18th (Monday)

@deeplyremorseful- I completely understand! My husband comes from a family that NEVER says they love each other or express their feelings. My family says we love each other almost every day and we hug a lot.

WH has a hard time saying ILY also. I expect him to say it when he is leaving for work, going, to bed, and when we get off the phone. (I say it when we get off the phone because if that is the last conversation we ever have I want to make sure I told that person that IL them.... No regrets). I get my feelings hurt when he doesn't. I have discussed this in our MC. I should not expect him to say it all the time. He also doesn't say things he doesn't mean (since A ended he has been completely honest). He also tells me he loves me in other ways.

FYI both of our love languages are touch, quality time, and words affirmation.

When he is mostly asleep or even in his sleep he reaches out to touch me. He buys me expensive gifts. I'm not high maintenance. I don't need expensive gifts... He just likes to make me happy and money was scarce when he was a child so he values it a lot now.

BACKGROUND: As for me I watched my wh have an EA in front of my face. I told him my issues with it. He continued it and ended up having a PA with his MOW co-worker. After our final d day it was hard for me to say ILY because I put myself out there to be vulnerable and dealt with TT and hearing how he luuvvved her

Saying the words are harder because it makes me feel like I'm putting myself out there, risking the pain again. As I get over the pain it makes it easier to say the words.

So to get back on topic.....yes he is saying when he is ready, comfortable, and safe with you the words will return. He just needs time to work thru all his emotions.

ETA: sorry I realized I rambled a bit. What I was trying to say that WH shows his feelings for me thru other ways than words. I will probably not hear ILY as often as I want to hear it but I need to start looking for it in others ways... The gifts and the touching. the same could be for your husband.

[This message edited by mostlymine at 1:43 PM, July 18th (Monday)]


BS- me (30ish)
See profile for details
Getting divorced... Wh is addicted to MOW
I edit because of typos...auto corrects stinks!

Posts: 830 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Texas
DeeplyRemorseful
Member
Member # 32796
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, July 18th (Monday)

[This message edited by DeeplyRemorseful at 5:37 PM, July 18th (Monday)]


DD 10/09
WS 40/ME
BS 45/HIM
No children
Married gtb 11 years
Been together gtb 20 years
Greatful every moment of every day my husband is here, we're together as a unit giving reconciling our best. Giving my husband the best of
me for as l

Posts: 65 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: DeeplyRemorseful
DeeplyRemorseful
Member
Member # 32796
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, July 18th (Monday)

Mostlymine: ty again. I'm at work typing on my cell. I wanted to add the other ways he shows me he loves me. I became caught up at work. Yes, your H and mine sound similar. They show their love in other ways. I show my love for him not only by my actions, but I said it a lot. I stopped saying Ily a few months ago b/c, he said it was too much and that I knew, or should know where he stood with that. So I stopped saying ily. Only until recently, a couple weeks ago. I slide it in only occasionally. I mean occasionally. When I really like to say it, as you do. When they leave in the morn for work, ob the phone, in a txt even (just to let him know I'm thinking of him) and of course during/after love making. Sorry if that's TMI. Just sayin it like it is. I think I'll hear it again, on his time. I'm patient. I'm not pushing, no control here. I simply show it more now. I also read the love language, that to has given me insight towards this thought. H and I aren't always on the same language level, nor page. I'm trying. He speaks so much more intelligent than I. I'm learning. Just takes me a bit longer to think of things, words to match his or at least striving to remain at his level. Sorry to ramble. I truly want to do the right thing. Ove things for sure, I'm not leaving his side. Our Me is worth working out. It wasn't worth losing and having A's. Ya know?


DD 10/09
WS 40/ME
BS 45/HIM
No children
Married gtb 11 years
Been together gtb 20 years
Greatful every moment of every day my husband is here, we're together as a unit giving reconciling our best. Giving my husband the best of
me for as l

Posts: 65 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: DeeplyRemorseful
betrayedmomof3
Member
Member # 32093
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, July 18th (Monday)

If he's telling you hang in there, I'd think he's trying to feel secure enough to say those words again, and most likely feels love for you but is still in pain. Jmo


Together 12 yrs, married 6
Dday from Hell 2/6/11
3 kids under 5
I would do anything to have my family in one piece but I know its shattered...

Posts: 108 | Registered: May 2011 | From: betrayedmomof3
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, July 19th (Tuesday)

I am wondering if he will ever say [I love you] again to me.

From what I've seen of R, R-ing a relationship is much like building a new relationship. When you first start dating someone, you get to know them, and you gradually fall in love with them. Probably the first time you meet them, you can't imagine spending the rest of your life with them, because you hardly know them. As a BS, I feel as though I don't even know my WH anymore. I have no idea who that person is, because the person who I thought I knew, the person who I married, would have never acted the way my H acted.

So if we were to R, it would be a process of getting to know him all over again, almost from scratch. Except in some ways harder, because I'd have to be re-writing the bits that had hurt me, writing over them as it were. And the love would likely come, because you don't stop loving a person just like *that*, but it would still come slowly, gradually, the way it does in a new relationship (but minus that weird infatuation stage where you feel like you're fourteen again and the world is made of pink marshmallows, you know?)

I think it will take your BH time. I know that isn't easy to hear, but sometimes that's just what it needs, because that love needs to be nurtured (by both of you) until it grows to the point where your H is comfortable expressing it the way he used to. I think it's a normal, natural part of the R process. Right now he is choosing to love you, because he is committed to you, and that is a huge and wonderful that you can hang onto and be encouraged by!!


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13193 | Registered: Jul 2011
DeeplyRemorseful
Member
Member # 32796
Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, July 20th (Wednesday)

Female WS here

I have a? Or ?? That I would appreciate a response from any male BS. I will refrain from detail here, due to the fact I would like to ask VERY detailed??? I ask this b/c, I need to be as detailed, explicit without being over the to explicit as possible regarding the sex I had with AP. I would like to better understand why my H/BS didn't believe why I didn't feel the entire time (3 days) having sex with the AP , wasn't the best sex I've ever had. Although I have come completely truthful in describing as best as I can recall what the sex was like. My H simply cannot grasp nor seems to want to believe my truth. I've read, only a small few female WS that felt the same as I. I would appreciate anyone responding or PM me if they have the stomach to listen, read what there is I have to describe in dirty disgusting detail. Anyone is welcome to respond. PM would probably be best in this case. This isn't something I'm proud of, nor is it pretty. Ty

[This message edited by DeeplyRemorseful at 8:55 AM, July 20th (Wednesday)]


DD 10/09
WS 40/ME
BS 45/HIM
No children
Married gtb 11 years
Been together gtb 20 years
Greatful every moment of every day my husband is here, we're together as a unit giving reconciling our best. Giving my husband the best of
me for as l

Posts: 65 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: DeeplyRemorseful
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, July 20th (Wednesday)

Did you avoid being intimate with your WS because you would still think about the OP? If you did avoid intimacy, did time make it easier to not think about the OP during those times?

Or

Was there anyone that still had the intimacy and just tried to not focus on those thoughts? Did the thoughts eventually lessen as time passed?

Both.

Interestingly, even though it bugs me that he might/might not have slept with someone else in the time we've been together (he's not being totally honest with me, but he's said twice now that he's cheated on me without admitting details), the mental movies I can't seem to get out of my head are those of his exes.

I've only met one of his exes, but he's described his others to me in great detail. He's told glowing stories of the times they've had sex, without me asking or even wanting to know.

Now that he says he's been cheating on me, the mental movies that come to mind are those of him with those other girls. He's never complimented me the way he's complimented them. Sometimes I avoid sex with him. But I really want it with him. I want him to make me feel as special as he implies he felt they were.

Not to mention that I'm scared if I don't have sex with him, often enough and exactly how he wants it, he'll continue to cheat on me and lie to me about it. And not communicate with me.

When I talk to my closer family members about it, they always say, "But he's with you, not them. He comes home to you (and our baby)." It's not comforting if I don't know whether or not the other girls are in his head.

One time right after we had sex, before I was even dressed, he started going on about all the good-looking girls he'd seen that day. And he hides his porn-watching from me. So I have little doubt that he DOESN'T picture me when we're having sex. That he prefers a position where my back is to him (where he can't see my face) doesn't do much to dispel the notion for me.

He's been talking about my best friend and running into her a lot lately. I hate being this paranoid. She and I have the same hair color, almost the same build. She's slightly taller than me. One time at a party, he mistook her for me from the back. I hate thinking that he's picturing her when he's with me.

So I'm in hell with the sex issue.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 1:09 PM, July 20th (Wednesday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3762 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, July 20th (Wednesday)

Anyone is welcome to respond.

I'm not a guy, but I'm happy to listen if you need to talk to someone, and to give any feedback I'm able. Feel free to PM me if it would help.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13193 | Registered: Jul 2011
icbtih8
Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, July 21st (Thursday)

DR,

I'm not a guy but my thinking would be "well, if it wasnt the best, why did it take 3 days" or "if it was just mediocre sex, then you basically threw away the M for nothing".

I don't know your story but my WH's left me feeling extremely insecure about my sexual abilities. One of the recurring thoughts is "well, if I was good enough at sex, then the WS wouldnt have cheated" and "it's obvious the OP is better because the WS went back for more".

I know the OW was better because WH is the only man I've slept with and OW has quite a few notches on her belt. I would never believe that sex with the OW was not the best he's ever had.


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
LuvingMe
Member
Member # 28829
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, July 21st (Thursday)

I have flat out refused and coached myself not to say 'I love you' to my WH. He betrayed me. So I don't. But that is just me, I will never let him all in


I can't even walk without you (Jesus) holding my hand.


Posts: 749 | Registered: Jun 2010
SoLost&Confused
Member
Member # 31092
Default  Posted: 11:40 PM, July 25th (Monday)

Deeplyremorseful ~ the ILY one is a tough one. I know that I rarely (1-2 times, probably) have initiated saying it to my H since I discovered his A. The words themselves are just too loaded for me to initiate, though I love him dearly. I think that I still feel too vulnerable to put myself and my feelings out there with those specific words. I'll respond when he says it, and am happy and grateful when he does, but initiate? Nope, still too scary. I did tell him once that I have a hard time saying the words, but that I do love him, just the words are hard, and that it doesn't mean I don't love him just because I don't initiate saying ILY. I don't know if you two have talked about that, but I think it helped.

Did you (and does your BH know about it) exchange ILYs with the AP? If so, ILY can take on a new, different, and not at all pleasant association. My H's AP told him she loved him, and I assume he told her the same (I read her text to him that said ILY, his didn't happen to include it... that time). At first, I couldn't even respond when he said ILY to me, even at the end of a phone call, the words were tainted, yet meaningless at the same time. I've thought about coming up with a new phrase with my H that means ILY, but isn't at all tainted, and is our own creation that has specific meaning only to us. I haven't brought it up with him (timing/opportunity hasn't been right), but I do plan to. I wonder if that would have any appeal to your BH and to you? I think it has the potential to be less loaded, yet more meaningful. Just a thought.


Me: BW (33)
Him: WH (36)
2 young kids

Posts: 158 | Registered: Feb 2011
whyme8
Member
Member # 35156
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, April 26th (Thursday)

Why does my WH get so angry when i try to askvquestions for my own healing about the EA? We have been separated for overva month and while i know he hasnt been texting her, i dont know ifvshe has been ringing his cellphone or going to his place of business. The phone records i have access to do not show received calls or details of local calls either. Has he taken the affair underground and is this why hes so angry because im on to him?
And
Am i pushing him more toward her by continually talking about it?
I know they cant be together as a couple because she is gang associated with a very dangerous partner who is in jail and knows nothing. All help and advice would be appreciated


BW Me 39
WH Him 38
Together 22 years, married 2
4 kids: 2DD's 17 and 14, 2 DS's 9 and 8
years of unconfirmed PA's, Nov 11 ONS X2, Dec - now 3 month EA texts and phone calls.
I busted you idiot - I shoulda been a PI. Now get the hel

Posts: 59 | Registered: Mar 2012
js_girl
Member
Member # 34797
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, April 27th (Friday)

One of the WS recently added a tread in Wayward Side for SAs, and there's a thread in I Can Relate for *Spouses* of Bipolars...but, as a BS, I often wonder what's gone on in the head of my BPWH. I'm wondering, if there are any BP WSs on here that would be be willing to begin a thread in Wayward Side?


Me: BW, 34
Him: WH, 32
2 beautiful baby boys
DDay 1: 2/8/12
TT til DDay 2: 3/3/12
Status: R as of 5/6/12
WRONG: FALSE R

Posts: 66 | Registered: Feb 2012
WishingForLethe
Member
Member # 34805
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, April 27th (Friday)

I am unsure how to act with my BH now. He does not appreciate uninvited touch anymore. For awhile I kept assuring him how much I loved him and how much I was willing to fight for him- it just seemed to annoy him and make him more angry and distant. he only seemed to relax when I backed off.

What he says now is he does not see any positive outcome for us, but is "not ready to leave."

Does want me to sleep in the same bed although (TMI warning) rarely wants to be intimate.

I want my M so much. But I want what is best for him and his healing more.

My question is- how long does limbo last for the average BS? I am not talking about the 2-5 year healing period. I would happily spend 10 years helping him heal. I am not complaining- I just feel lost and dont know how to help anymore.


Don't look at how far you have to go, but how far you have come

Posts: 350 | Registered: Feb 2012
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 12:58 PM, April 27th (Friday)

whyme8...

This thread is for WS's to ask questions of BS's.

Please re-post your question on the BS Questions for WS's thread.

Thank you


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192011 | Registered: May 2002
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, April 27th (Friday)

WfL:

It was easily 3 years before I committed to R.

I tend to believe that there's very little a WS can do to make things better (but a TON they can do to make it worse), no matter how hard they try or how honest their effort.

The BS has to take charge of their own healing and be willing to do whatever it takes to get better. No one else can do it for you.

Note: That shouldn't be taken as an opinion that your husband isn't trying to heal or otherwise not pulling his weight. There are no instant results, and he has to find what works for him.

The biggest problem I see with this dynamic is that WS's tend to start asking themselves, "When is it going to get better? When are they going to stop hurting?" Because very often, you don't see the BS's inner struggle, and frankly, the BS doesn't consider the WS to be a safe place to communicate those struggles. That's throwing good money after bad.

You have to trust him to work out his own process and find the answers he needs. You can't do it for him, and he's strong enough to do it himself.

It's not an easy road for anyone.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
TodayisMine
Member
Member # 29740
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, May 2nd (Wednesday)

(((wishing)))

Ditto what wincing said.

There is not one aspect of my life, thoughts, or emotions that my H affair did not touch. A betrayed's healing process differs from the wayward because is not just about the marriage or unfaithful partner. For me, nothing was safe. What I thought and felt about literally everything unravelled and had to be reconsidered.

Less about you, we no longer trust ourselves. Intimacy is a hard one because at most it makes us vulnerable and at the very least it opens us up to expectations.

It is a process and he has to do this part on his own. What you can do is be consistent and undemanding. Be the wife you wish you would have been and would be if infidelity wasn't defining your relationship. Doing so can help show him that it was a seriously poor choice and laspe of judgement, but not a definition of your character or feelings for him and your relationship.

It took me a long time to see his betrayal really was something my H did - that it could be something that happend and not a monster or failing inside him or myself to be feared - not who he was or what we are.

He showed that to me by pointing out what and where his failings came in to play and becoming a better man. He walked the walk so to speak that his actions were consistent with his words. He had to do this for himself and trust me to make my own decision if he was the right partner for me.

Sometimes you have to let go and trust the process. Always be open to communication, but understand some things we have to go through on our own.


Either we are trustworthy or we are not. As Tom Peters said, "There is no such thing as a minor lapse of integrity."

Posts: 66 | Registered: Sep 2010
threw it away
Member
Member # 34727
Default  Posted: 12:13 AM, May 5th (Saturday)

My husband and I have been separated since December. We have corresponded, but not physically seen each other since then. I desperately want a chance to restore our marriage, but I place his happiness above it. I do want him to heal and find happiness once again, even if I can have no place in his life any more. It is very hard for me to decide on what to do now.

I've now written out the histories, the timelines, all my feelings during my affairs, everything. I have included much that I have discovered about myself. I want so badly to say to him: there is so much I can tell and show you now, please let me show you that you will someday not regret loving me, I can and will become the wife you deserve.

But I don't know if he wants to read anything I've written, or hear from me at all. If anyone were to ask him, I am sure that he would say that he wants to forget me as soon as he can. I hope that in his inner heart, he still has feelings for me, but there is no way to approach him without risking that I will hurt him more than has already happened. Which path is the least selfish, the best for him, regardless of what I want? I still have no idea.

[This message edited by threw it away at 12:16 AM, May 5th (Saturday)]


me: ww/34
him: 33, has initiated divorce
married 8 years, together for ten
kids 7 and 4

dday 1 - 12/17/2011
dday 2 - 1/26/2012 (my past multiple affairs revealed)


Posts: 112 | Registered: Feb 2012
imagrownup
Member
Member # 29587
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, May 9th (Wednesday)

As a Bs, I have spent nearly two years trying to feel safe with my WS. I have had horrible times. Truly the only thing that has worked is my WS's relentless continuous, never waving committment to being the man I deserve to be married too. He doesn't stop. We were seperated - we were put through continuous attempts by the AP to contact us. He has seen me cry- he has listened non stop to me ranting- he has been there when I was upset- he has agreed to more MC. He has answered the same questions over and over and over and over again.
Slowly, and I mean slowly, I have begun to trust him.
He hasn't went out with his friends in 2 years except one time and he sent constant pictures of him and his friends and where he is at. He calls me all day long-if he is going into a meeting- he let's me know - that was his favorite excuse to see her in past - you won't be able to get me I am in a meeting all afternoon. He makes ways to make sure I know he truly was in a meeting - like sending me emails of the reminders to be there from co-workers. He has turned down business trips.
All and all his life must suck. He is completely driven to make me feel comfortable-I still have problems. I may for years to come - I am not sure.
However, all this after all this, each and every day I feel the tiniest bit better. Some days not much, but I feel just a tiny tiny bit more secure. As I look back to what I was just a year ago, I have made huge strides. Really he got me there.
I guess my best advice is never waver - tell him it is ok not to want to sleep with you- you will wait. Tell him it is ok that you don't want to see you - you will wait. Send cards apologize unwaveringly, never stop. Make him see you will be the person he deserved all along. Don't give up even when you feel like it.
My Ws gets really frustrated. I see it - he kind of pulls back and then I see him pulling from within and gives me everything I need all over again. 2 years is a long time to keep doing the hard things he does - but he does.
When I say to him- your life really sucks- why bother anymore- he says no my life would suck without you. I live for the great moments in between. Don't waver stay strong.
Someone fighting for you is a tough tough person to ignore. It makes your heart glow. I can't ignore what he is doing. No one has ever fought for me like this.
He never wavers- he does all this without me asking. His job has struggled he has gotten behind- I feel it is because of me. But he takes all this on as a new life and doesn't complain.
When you feel it is over - you can't do it anymore - keep doing everything and anything you can.


Me BW 48
HIM WS 48
D-DAY1 11/5/09
D-DAY 2 11/28/09
D-DAY 3 3/15/10 Claims just talking
D-DAY 4 5/?/10 Says he quit talking???

Posts: 184 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: midwest
LostnFound412
New Member
Member # 33905
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, May 9th (Wednesday)

((threw it away))
I can relate very well from the other side of the question. I would have listened to anything she had to say for a very long time, but not any longer. I forgave her many years ago for cheating while I was overseas with several people. Years later the cheating began again and I started seeing the signs but I really didn't want to believe them. About 1 year ago she confessed with a long list of names and I still don't think they were all there just the ones I knew about or had a very good idea about. Even at that time I would still have considered staying and working on things (this time with a much better idea of what was needed to have success - she has several mood and personality disorders and it would take true remorse which never happened, admitting she was at fault which really never happened and very good counseling which still is not happening) so I moved on. The question is whether or not your BS hit a point where he has made a decision that it is to late. The year between your first Dday and your 2nd Dday may have been to long and he may have made a final decision. Have you truely shown the things I mentioned (actions mean so much more than words) and have you truely asked him if it is to late or if there is anyway you can prove to him you want to make it work. Don't let him use you in order to prove it to him and make sure you are really ready to do everything needed to make it work if he says yes (and when I say everything I am refering to the postiives - full disclosure, no secrets, passwords, timelines, complete honesty). He is still around so that may still mean the door may be open to R. Every BS has a different level of forgiveness and a different level of self preservation. Once you ask either work your behind off to make it successful or respect his decision even if it is not what you were hoping for. If it is the later you can always say the door will be left open is there is a change of heart. Best wishes.


Me - 45 and moving on
Her - 40 and still doing what she does best
SS - 15 and struggling with her actions but making progress being with me

Posts: 13 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: PA
threw it away
Member
Member # 34727
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, May 10th (Thursday)

It was a few weeks between the two d-days, not a year. But that makes no difference, deception is deception.

The question still remains: what do I have "the right" to do? There are so many things I would say and do, but he seems to be moving forward now, finding serenity and forgetting me, and do I have the right to disturb that, perhaps introduce doubts where he currently has none?


me: ww/34
him: 33, has initiated divorce
married 8 years, together for ten
kids 7 and 4

dday 1 - 12/17/2011
dday 2 - 1/26/2012 (my past multiple affairs revealed)


Posts: 112 | Registered: Feb 2012
get-a-brain
Member
Member # 35295
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, May 10th (Thursday)

Question for WH.

After D-day we went through HB. Of course that was good.

It seems now though, that WH has a hard time keeping an erection and sometimes doesn't even climax. I have told him this makes me feel like I am not desirable. (his AP was a stripper 15 years younger than me).
I know I am beautiful, but that doesn't mean "he" thinks I am. He says it's because he isn't using porn anymore. I don't get that. I would think the less sexual activity would heighten the experience when it does happen.

Anyway, did you go through this with your BS and if so, why?

(He is 39. I'm thinking a little young for erectile dysfunction.)


Read Why Your Spouses Infidelity Isn't Your Fault
http://www.healingafteraffairs-bloomington.info/infidelity/trauma-of-infidelity.html

Posts: 148 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Illinois
Fallen
Member
Member # 4313
Red  Posted: 7:06 PM, May 10th (Thursday)

get-a-brain, if you're asking a question of WSes, that should go in the other ICR thread: "BS questions for WSes" This thread is for waywards to ask questions of BSes. I know it's a little confusing! Please repost your question in the other thread.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
Honest1
Member
Member # 29976
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, May 10th (Thursday)

Threwitaway,

BS here. I am not sure of your sitution but wanted to reply to your question.

I think it varies with a BS. INHO I don't think your BS is moving on & forgetting you.

For the longest time I had hoped my FWW would have opened up verbally and/or written letter expressing how she felt about me and that she wanted to fight for our M.

My situation is different since my FWW displayed little remorse and was not able to NC with OM; these I needed for an atempt towards R. As more time went by the less desire I had to R. until it was no longer a possibilty.

IMO I don't think it would hurt for you to let your BS know that you are very interested in working for R and see where that goes. It will be up to him if R is on the table, but without asking how will either of you truly know?


BS 49
WW 47
SPa May 3rd 2010
D-day Oct 6th 2010 WS asked for R
D-day2 Oct 17th 2010 WS breaks NC
2 Kids ages 5 & 8
Separated 11/07/2010

Posts: 135 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: Midwest
LostnFound412
New Member
Member # 33905
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, May 11th (Friday)

Threw it away
As a BS would has moved on I would say it would be late for your situation to happen with me but I would also not be upset if you tried. I know where I am in my life and if this were presented to me I would probably say thank you but it is to late. However it would also give me a better appreciation for her. She has never been remorseful, never even said she was sorry, and never tried. She just said I deserve better and then shortly after started blaming me for everything to shift the blame from herself. My situation may be much different then yours and if I had seen remorse and the desire to truely try I would have stayed. As a BS I would say try. He may reject you and may not believe you but he may also realize you mean it and then the door will open. As I said before, if you truely mean it then do it, if you have any questions about your ability to be devoted entirely then leave it alone. Good luck.


Me - 45 and moving on
Her - 40 and still doing what she does best
SS - 15 and struggling with her actions but making progress being with me

Posts: 13 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: PA
threw it away
Member
Member # 34727
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, May 11th (Friday)

Thank you for the replies.

I have given this so much thought and decided that I will not be asking him, not now.

I so much want to be a new, changed person, today in this minute, because I know that time is running out. But I also know that any real changes will take a great deal more time; it has only been a few months. I know that I would never have another affair. But there are still too many things I do not know about myself and thus could not explain to him. I can only wait and hope that he is still there -- when I finally can say for certain what motivated me to do these things, and how I was able to such a blind eye to the pain I would cause. As with many other things, I am not there yet.


me: ww/34
him: 33, has initiated divorce
married 8 years, together for ten
kids 7 and 4

dday 1 - 12/17/2011
dday 2 - 1/26/2012 (my past multiple affairs revealed)


Posts: 112 | Registered: Feb 2012
NowWhat106
Member
Member # 35497
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, June 3rd (Sunday)

WishingForLethe,

Your DDay is still so recent that your WH is really still reeling from one extreme to the other.

My DDay was 8 months ago, and I still feel this way. I can tell you that in my situation, my WH came out of the fog immediately and was completely sure that he wanted our M at a time when I had no F-ing idea if I ever wanted to even look at him again.

During his LTEA, he withdrew from me emotionally and physically. He detached completely for several years and was angry and verbally abusive during that time. After DDay, he wanted to reestablish the emotional and physical bonds way too quickly for me. He expresses intimacy in physical ways: hugging, kissing, touching, and, yes, sex. To have him suddenly making these physical gestures when he had withheld them for such a long time made me feel many conflicting emotions. I felt insulted and taken for granted (so you think you can just withhold any intimacy for years, have an A, and then suddenly, when you want it, I'm just supposed to go along and be happy about it?). I also felt that there was no F-ing way that ANY of that was going to be on his terms at that point. I made it clear to him that I would decide if and when that was okay with me or not.

I don't know what your relationship was like during your A, but your H may be feeling some of that. Like: Oh sure, NOW you want to be with me. He's also processing the fact that he may feel that you chose someone else over him and that he's not sure if he wants to let you back in or not. There are just so many hugely conflicting feelings for him to process.

I can tell you that my WH and I are in R and he is trying desperately hard ALL the time, but I still don't know for sure that it will be enough after the A. Because, unfortunately, the A happened, and it colors everything from now on for the BS.

It's still early for you, I hope that you can just be patient and let your BS sort things out for awhile. You might ask him what he needs from you and how he would most prefer that you express your feelings of love and remorse to him. Maybe all the physical stuff isn't how he most prefers to receive love from you right now. Communicating about it without being defensive or hurt or personally rejected would probably be the best course. Make it about him and how you can most help him.

It might be good to ask him if he prefers that you not approach him in that way right now or if he wants you to keep trying even though he can't reciprocate.

Above all, make it clear to him that you will do WHATEVER he needs and that you're willing to wait and help him in any way you can. He might not know exactly what he needs or what will help, and he might want you to keep up with the physical gestures even though he doesn't want to respond because he's so angry. But he's still there, and communication is really the only road.

Good luck to you on this difficult path. I can tell that you really want to help make this right. I'm pulling for you and your H.


Me BS
Him WS
LTEA with old HS GF from 25+ years ago
DD #1: 10/6/2011
DD #2: 10/21/2011
2DS under18
Status: We'll see.

Posts: 262 | Registered: May 2012
Topic Posts: 386