Perimenopause, ADs and anti-anxiety drugs really kill a libido.

Tho I think we're both interested...we're just skeered...

ADs are a sex life killer, no doubt about it. It's finding the lesser of the evils, since depression can be a killer or just simply suck all the light and air out of a home. Uggh!

I'll toss out something we're going to try on the advice of FWH's shrink. First, let me preface by saying FWH has tried every medication out there. I mean EVERYTHING. So that's where we are at; no choices left until the pharmaceutical companies crank out something new. Second, I'll add that this new shrink (he's had several) has been described as "the smartest doctor I've ever known" by two mental health professionals who've been in it a long time and whose opinion I really take to heart. The shrink is really into Eastern healing traditions and in other words isn't bound to the Merck Manual.

Now comes the crazy "as seen on TV!" part...which is to say that if I heard this from came from anyone other than this brilliant doctor, I'd immediately discard: He told FWH that he might try this product called Zenorx in combination with ginseng.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, folks: I ordered some off eBay the other day, a 30 day supply I think it is. We'll see. I figured I'd mention it, either as a hot tip or if it doesn't work at all, I can maybe save someone a few bucks. But obviously I'm really (reeeeeeeeeally) hoping for the former!

Kwills

Remember that STRESSED spelled backwards is DESSERTS.

considering the last post I started about this subject was titled something like "he's not that into me, is he?" I'm thinking this thread is the place for me.

what I really can't figure out is if it's sex with me or just sex in general that WH isn't interested in now.

[This message edited by trahi at 8:56 PM, April 27th (Monday)]

So why? In my eyes I assume he may still be in contact with OW, but haven't seen any signs of it. When asked, he says why does him being in contact with OW have to be the only reason?

Well... because if not then you are just down right rejecting me and that is even more traumatic. He says he doesn't know why he isn't interested in sex with me. Last MC he said maybe it was because it would make him vulnerable and I am like okay...but I am the BS...how vulnerable do you think I am?

I am just at a loss...I'm feeling pretty down.

I posted in the R forum and someone told me about this thread. So I am glad I have some place to go.

It has been two years for me. The first year I didn't even notice because I was under so much stress dealing with a family member. The second year was after the A...you bet I notice now. When I told H we needed to have sex he was pissed and said, "Now, you want to have sex?" As in why didn't I want to have it before.

I'm just lost. If we can't get the sexual intimacy in line how do we expect to have full intimacy.

I guess it's time to try to talk to WH about it, again. But last time I did most of the talking, and while we did end up having some good sex that night, it didn't take long to realize that nothing has really changed.

You might not want to discount the "too vulnerable" factor your WH shared.

My spouse is a sex addict, but I have only known that for 6 months.

Most of our marriage my WH would give me every reason in the world for the lack of sex. Work stress, kids, money, sick....
I had no idea there was porn usage. NO idea he took care of his own business EVER.

Regardless what your WH's reasons for no interest, sex is intimate. If someone is afraid of being vulnerable, they are expressing a fear of intimacy. Why? FOO issues?

I asked my WH many time "what is so wrong with me that you wouldn't even USE me?!!"

FEAR

Your WH actually admitted it. Go with it.
Whatever the "reason" in the big picture; He is afraid.

I know it sounds so contradictory, but think about it:
Affair sex is NOT intimate, they can have sex without being vulnerable. It isn't as real as a wife will be, especially a wife that cares enough to try to R!

[This message edited by too trusting BW at 3:07 PM, April 28th (Tuesday)]

Soooo many familiar names.

Well, we're still No Sex, nine months after the A (at least she didn't get preggers!), and I'm dealing with it by NOT TAKING IT PERSONALLY. I'm living anyway.

If she is not into a great catch like me, something is amiss!

It doesn't suck less this way, but we have a pretty good thing otherwise since her BiPolar is being taken care of a bit and we actually talk and communicate about stuff.
Except the sex issue, which makes her wierd. She has SA issues she won't deal with, so that's probably it!

Best to all of you, and take care of yourselves.
I want sex so bad I can taste it sometimes, but it is not air, food, or water, so I can live for now.

But what's comical is that the seller noted that there'd be a "special bonus". Yay! Yay! right??

Oh my goodness: the package arrives and the bonus turns out to be this totally gnarly deck of nudie girl playing cards featuring --well-- you know... With kids in the house and a FWH who couldn't even benefit from them w/o reaching for his reading glasses, I decided to run 'em through the shredder (not exactly a Goodwill donation item, after all).

I did save out one, though, to share for laughs w/FWH: this photo of this woman who was like a circus freak by choice with these giant deflated soccer balls implanted on her chest. Grrrrrross! I mean, really: who finds that attractive??? It looked bizarre and I don't mean b/c of the size, I mean because of the freaky way her tatas were all huge in the midsection and then narrowed quite notably when attaching to the the body. And someone thought that was attractive and 'hot' enough to photograph and paste on a playing card???

Anyway, just a diversion and/or warning post (in case anyone decides to order Zenorx off eBay like me!).

[This message edited by sad12008 at 9:33 PM, April 28th (Tuesday)]

Anyone getting no sex at all? If so, reasons?

I just don't know whether I should back off or push with WH on this subject. I don't understand where his mind is right now and in past conversations, he hasn't been able to really explain it either.

I think a part of WH wants (needs?) to be pursued like the OW did, but in my mind that makes it all about him again. And I'm past tired of it being all about him.

I just post this in response to Top Jimmy's thread in Recon.

I became asexual over 1 year.

He has a sense of humor and he even made a joke during summer in front of the kids saying "Oh it's hot, open your legs honey, because it is cold like fridge"

After I He-toxed xOM from my system, and I had to cut off all sexual contents Tvs, movies, because they triggered me and send me to the opposit direction and didn't help. I stopped wearing clothes that makes me look attractive, too. I felt like I was having a celibacy from those dark days.

Emotional connection(doing things together) helped me becoming more physical connection, too. Also not feeling being pressured also helped. At the same time, I read those sexual healing books, and get my physical checked.

After 1.5 years out, I finally feel like I am a virgin for my H again.

We never had HB. As you saw my other thread in Recon, it was a big deal for us that I initiated it.

I will keep reading healthy intimacy and sexuality for our sexual well-being.

Good luck and hang in there.

Anyone else want to chime in on this subject? Anyone getting no sex at all? If so, reasons?

Well, let's see...

"because I need a shower and I don't feel like taking one now." (And he didn't until 15 minutes before he had to leave for an appt)

"maybe later, I ate too much dinner" (Later he's throwing up in the bathroom because "he ate too much dinner")

"I just got sick, not really in the mood"

"Tired"

"Sore"

"Beat"

And these were all this week.

[This message edited by weepy at 10:55 AM, May 2nd (Saturday)]

For whatever reason, she is more open to it. We had some hot lovin' yesterday. And it's looking more promising.

I don't know why she couldn't during periods of our 8 months of R. Maybe there wasn't enough space. I've stopped trying to figure it out. I'm just focused on my needs and boundaries. It seems to be working.

She's really trying to figure this out in IC and MC on how to make that emotional connection with me in hopes of getting the physical connection going. Is it even possible to get that "loving" feeling back? Obviously we had it in the beginning of our relationship.

To anyone who knows me and my WBF, they would think that we are the "perfect" couple. We are entirely in love with each other. He spoils me something fierce, and I would do anything for him. We complement each other. He is totally affectionate with me, holds my hand everywhere we go, kisses on me, and does not hesitate to let the world know how much he loves me. I believe all of this, I truly do. I know he *wants* to change. He knows what he did was wrong. He is entirely remorseful to me.

We have not had sex for 13 months and 18 days. I happen to know that I am not even the last person he had sex with, and this tears me apart.

My WBF's cheating consisted of meeting people online, sometimes escalating to phone sex, and sometimes escalating to meeting for sex. At least one of these women believed she was in a relationship with him.

Without giving TMI, my WBF has a physical condition that cannot be seen on webcams. I believe that he gets the courage to do online what he would never have the courage to do in person. I believe it makes him feel some sort of power over the women he meets online. For the most part, I don't believe his emotions were involved in the cheating. The exception would probably be the one who thought he was her boyfriend, although at the time that I had discovered that affair, she told me that she had not seen him for months...just talked to him on the phone, including phone sex. She only lived a couple of miles from him.

Our sexual history: We had an incredible sex life for the first seven months of our relationship. He started cheating on me, and it waned. We went a couple of months without sex at one point, but even when we were having sex, it was not with the intensity that we used to have.

I confronted WBF in January 2008 about the relationship. He got pissed and declared that we were "over." He saw her for the following week and then made contact with me (beginning of February). We got back together. We had sex a few times, still not with the previous intensity. The last time we had sex was 03/17/2008. We basically had a False R until May 2008.

I feel that WBF (Mimbo) is committed to me and making our relationship work. He said for several months that he just had no sex drive. I found only one time that he had been looking at porn on his computer. I know he is not chatting with anyone, I have a program installed and he does not know about it.

After sending my PM to hurtbs, I again confronted him about the lack of sex. It got pretty heated, and he told me that if I really want to know, it physically hurts him to orgasm.

Believe me, I know we don't have a "perfect" relationship. He is willing to do whatever, including counseling, but we have not at this point. We do not lack intimacy at all. We do, however, lack passion. And it kills me. I have told him repeatedly it is not about the sex, it's about the fact that I do not feel wanted or desired by him. He goes to great lengths to make me feel sexy, beautiful, desirable etc etc.... IT'S NOT THE SAME. You cannot replace the feelings you get from that kind of passion with anything else. And I don't gauge anything by the "intensity" of the sex we once had, because I have put that into perspective. It is not the same intensity that I would expect from sex derived from love and passion for one person. Unfortunately, that intense sex we had doesn't mean squat, I don't feel the least bit special in that regard. And also, we lacked intimacy when he was cheating.

This is incredibly hard, to feel this way day in and day out. Nothing has ever made me feel so ugly and unworthy. It's a constant conflict with the way he treats me, and that is what makes it so hard to deal with. I do think a lot of this is ingrained in us; we as women believe that if we are desirable, men will want to have sex with us. I listen to men all the time who complain about lack of sex. That is acceptable discussion; however, I cannot fathom sharing this with my friends at work. There surely must be something wrong with me if he doesn't want me. WBF cannot comprehend what this is doing to my self-esteem. It's such a confusing and hurtful way to feel. We go to bed and cuddle and kiss. Sometimes I feel so close to him, and the next natural thing to do would be to make love. And it's just not happening. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I have cried myself to sleep in his arms. It is rejection, every day that it continues. Every day is a new hurt and a new rejection to me. It doesn't get any easier.

Maybe this is woman like but I would like it to start in the morning IE a nice day flirting and her to at least half the time initiate.

It has gotten me to the point I feel like a fool and will not pursue sex for a long time.

I AM THE PRIZE!

"Your attention and direction determine your destination." Andy Stanley in "The Principle of the Path."

Please - can you explain why? WW and I had a "fantastic sex life" (her words) - until dday and then nothing. Is there anything a BS can do to encourage WS to open up - and not just sex, but intimacy, conversation, tenderness, kindness, interest, etc. With my issues with self-esteem and self-respect I cannot be the one to initiate everything. What can a BS do?

ds

During A, we had more sex.

First 3 month, I was still in withdrawal and xOM's ghost was in the way and it triggered me bad. And after that, I couldn't even bring myself to see any sexual content TV or mobies, like when H was flipping channels, and HBO's soft porn program or any sexy bikini women shows up, or women dressed up in the skanky way, came across it made me sick. I then would say, "Eeeew".....

I guess, he had a sense of humor and he even made a joke during summer in front of the kids saying "Oh it's hot, open your legs honey, because it is cold like fridge"

After I He-toxed xOM from my system, and I had to cut off all sexual contents Tvs, movies, because they triggered me and send me to the opposit direction and didn't help. I stopped wearing clothes that makes me look attractive, too. I felt like I was having a celibacy from those dark days.

Emotional connection(doing things together) helped me becoming more physical connection, too. Also not feeling being pressured also helped. At the same time, I read those sexual healing books, and get my physical checked.

After 1.5 years out, I finally feel like I am a virgin for my H again.

We never had HB.

Everytime, I saw the Viagra commercial, I felt very uncomfortable and felt guilty for H.
What helped me was he did lots of act of service, physical touch (playful and affectionate) and in return, I wanted to do the same for him. (5 Love language book helped me)

I also read many sexual healing books.

"Don't call it love" and "sexual anorexia" book by Patrick Carns. "Sex Detox" by Ian Carns, "Sex Starved marriage" by Michele Weiner Davis.

Also I was going through perimenopause and I had depression and didn't help.

I didn't like feeling being pressured and H focusing on the genital sex. When he touched me he only focusing on my breasts or genitals. So then I would say, I don't like you targetting. When I told H that I could live without sex (I meant with anyone for that matter), and he took it as his inadequecy to make me happy.

H said "would you be happy, if I said I would not have sex with you anymore?", but I said "no".

When it comes to sex, H always focused on genital sex and frequency of sexual intercourse, but there are actually 12 dimentions in healthy sexuality. (according to "sexual anorexia" book by Patrick Carns) I am learning healthy intimacy and improving our sex life.

1. Nurturing - the capacity to receive care from others and provide care for self.

2. Sensuality - the mindfulness of physical senses that creates emotional, intellectual, spiritual, and physical presence.

3. Self-image - a positive self-percelption that includes embracing your sexual self.

4. Self-definition - a clear knowledge of yourself, both positive and negative, and the ability to express boundaries as well as needs.

5. comfort - the capacity to be at ease about sexual matters with oneself and with others.

6. Knowledge - a knowledge base about sex in general and about one's own unique sexual patterns.

7. Relationship - a capacity to have intimacy and friendship with both those of the same gender and opposite gender. (If somone has a boundary issue, they need to fix that)

8. Partnership - the ability to maintain an interdependent, equal relationship that is intimate and erotic.

9. Nongenital sex - the ability to express erotic desire emotionally and physically without the use of the genitals.

10. Genital sex - the ability to freely express erotic feelings with the use of the genitals.

11. Spirituality - the ability to connect sexual desire and expression to the value and meaning of one's life.

12. Passion - the capacity to express deeply held feelings of desire and meaning about one's sexual self, relationships, and intimacy experience.

but what can I do to encourage her to connect with me?

ds

You said,

With my issues with self-esteem and self-respect I cannot be the one to initiate everything.

I can see why you cannot initiate anything from you....

Are you two in MC? If so, you can bring that up there, I think what she needs is feel safe.

Is she in IC?

When was d-day?

Has she been like this till now?

How is she treating you?

Have you forgiven her?

Do you think she is depressed?

Have you found each of your love language? (from the "5 Love languages" book by Gary Chapman)

Sorry for more questions.

[This message edited by beach at 7:35 PM, May 7th (Thursday)]

FWH turned out not to be F at all.

He came back for R. No remorse, not regrets.. til he left me again.

He seemed to be doing lots of trying that didn't make sense. Defined as false R.

I wanted sex. I thought my H was back..and would be for good. I figured he just needed to figure himself out.

Nope.

I had asked the questions. It didn't seem like he was interested. he told me he didn't know why. Just wasn't interested.. Duh .. but left out the fact that they were still in contact w/eachother.

Watch your backs, Ladies. If your FWH is not interested and always had been up until he left the first time there is a great possibility that it's not the finances or the kids stressing him. It's the thought of doing his OW wrong.

Sorry. You can 2x4 me back. But pm me if you need advise or want to share

That soab.

I had yet another conversation with WH last night - yep another round of drunken verbal vomiting for me - and finally asked him about whether he even thought about sex. He said he did, a lot. Then I asked him if he thought about having sex with me. Again, he said he did. That was it. He didn't elaborate.

So he thinks about sex, and sex with me, but does nothing to initiate it. I guess if I hadn't been quite so drunk I would have thought to ask if the thoughts of having sex with me repulsed him. Because I'm beginning to think it must.

This sucks!

I am so sorry.

trahi, how are you doing?

No interest in sex with FWW. Grosses me out. I guess I haven't accepted that she's stopped seeing OM.

Like lostcause; I am the prize.

It isn't that I don't want sex, I just don't want it with him.

i most certainly do not want sex with my wh.....

i do want sex though, my sex drive is finally back...was gone for well over a year...his emotionaly abuse, me being a hole once upon a time, and puttin everyone and everything above me and the kids HAD KILLED, DESTROYED AND OLIBTERATED MY SEX DRIVE....

he has an affair, well 3 affairs, one for 30 years, another 12 years and the alleged last was 1 week plus....

and MY SEX DRIVE IS BACK AND ITS STRONG......

go figure

I actually LONG for dirty, kinky, sweaty, monkey-sex. I just wish I had a partner I could trust.

For me this is more a problem when it's late-night, lights out. Not so much, if I can see what's going on.
I've feigned sleep several times.

It's easier to never start, than to not be able to finish - if that makes sense.

Now during that time I was convinced he was having an affair and I loved him enough to turn my head and let it happen because I didnt think I was satisfying him sexually anymore because he needs so much more attention due to the surgery.

But when I found out it was an EA, that pissed me off. He was spending "mouth" time with another woman that wasnt me!

Now, he has totally given up on trying to have a productive sex life. He forgot I live with him and I need sex too. He will give me all the oral I want but he says he's not interested in trying to have intercourse anymore.

I'm pissed!

I think it's half and who initiates sex, but according to my H it's always him.

imo, the one who initiates sex is the one that indicates their desire for sex first, either physically or verbally.

I feel like familiar is no turn on; the illicitness of this tramp was what turned him on. "It was about the heat" he says....

I have been blamed in our whole marriage of not wanting sex. I really truly felt I had a problem. Its not that I did not want sex, I just shut down and we did not talk about it so it became the HUGE elephant in the room.

Now after R and HB and being back together for almost 4 years the old patterns start creeping back in, on both our sides. But after an A and alot of therapy I am trying to dig deeper myself to answer my own questions in regards to this. Sad to say that I find sex with my H to be mostly one sided, meaning for years I thought that since it took me many times a little longer to O then he did that the problem was my fault. If I did not O my H a long time ago would take some time but in the last 10 years takes no time. After blaming myself for so long I had to really dig deep and get beyond my embarrassment and try to talk about this. I really am happy when my H reaches climax, truly, but I am left carrying the left overs of nothing when we are done. Now don't get me wrong, this does not happen ALL the time, but I would say most of the time. We both have alot of honesty we need to hash out, well at least I will on my end and see where it goes.

Just being honest here. Embarrassed but honest. Trying to figure out where in my youth I thought it was OK to be with someone and yet not find my "own" voice so to speak in the bedroom. My voice after the A though may bring us closer or send us apart. I have found that I fought for my marriage as a family but never felt strong enough to speak the truth of my own needs in the bedroom.

I hate to say I will never initiate again.

What to do with how I feel which is horny often.

I feel goddamn stuck!

Your answer is in your tagline. If your spouse is an addict, he is incapable of intimacy until he is sober and in recovery. This takes a long time, but yes it can get better!

Read some posts in the I Can Relate Forum for spouses of Sex addicts. You will find you are not alone.

I recommend reading Mending a Shattered Heart just as soon as you can. It helped me so much. It brings so many factors together to make sense of things you never realize are connected.

Now we do not have sex at all. there is no affectionate touching. I asked WH why. I told WH even though I am hurt and Angry I still find him Sexy, Beautiful and Alluring. He doesn't even stiffen when I touch him, but he told me that he is mastubating daily. I think he is still thinking of her and I don't want to ask him because the answer will piss me out again. She did things with him that I have never done with anyone. If he had asked before I may have treid to go with it, but now, I just can't and I know that he wants these things.

However, I kind of have a promise to myself not to initiate again. I of course am tired of rejection, but I want to make sure she wants it the next time it happens. But, even then, will I know? Because I have threatened to divorce over the lack of sex, and if I really move toward D she might force herself, which I do not want either.

OK, it's a bit of a dweeby thing to say but I think the not-having-sex is kind of a vicious circle and self-reinforcing, because I have read that having sex releases "happy chemicals" that help you bond with your partner and want them more.

It's in my WW's court now, her move, and if I divorce because of this, it's her problem.

I know divorce and the mess it unleashes will be a bitch. All that pain in your life for refusing to sleep with your man here and there! By the way, she doesn't touch or hug me neither and I moved out of our master bed long ago when we were at the height of our difficulties and she expessed distaste for me.

I am not so terrible looking and don't smell that bad. Ultimately, if she lets this happen she is dumb, dumb, dumb.

Before the A, my WH and I had a pretty good sex life. When the A started, we had a sudden increase in frequency. As it continued, our frequency took a dive, but I attributed it to the fact that I was pregnant and as I got bigger, he was less interested. Then, after D Day, I wanted to "reclaim my territory" and we had sex like rabbits.

The problem is that after D Day, I could never climax. I'm not sure why, exactly. I know that our emotional intimacy was so damaged, that physical intimacy was hard for me. There were mental movies. There was fear. There were so many things in the way, but I wanted to prove to him, so to speak, that what we had was good. That being with her was a mistake, because he has everything he needs and wants at home already. So, I never said anything. I didn't tell him that I was not reaching orgasm.

Now, a year and half out, we have an active sex life, but I am totally unfulfilled. I've never reached orgasm easily, but to go a year and a half without one at all...well...

Am I alone in this?

Says never loved me, can't have sex unless loves. Used fantasy during our marriage.

Now that the truth is out, and can't/won't use fantasy, won't have sex with me.

Married 32 years. Had sex with another while we were "dating" steadily for 6 1/2 years and sex with OW while we were married.

Says those were "love". No love with me, therefore no sex.

Says he wants sex, just not with me.

MC said without it, relationship won't survive. Pushed to "attempt". He was totally revolted to have me touch him, on his knee.

Cannot get an erection, no desire for me.

Doesn't want, love or care for me, my "persona".

Every night of lying next to a "roommate" becomes harder and harder.

Yet he is in MC with me over 1 year-doesn't want it, feel it, wants to leave -but stays.

What is he waiting for?

I dont like the fact that I still want sex with her, but I do. We are in seperate bedrooms right now, and every other night or so we lay down together and just chill, but no sex. I am doing the 180 and just leaving when she says she doesnt want it, no argueing, just go up to my room, but how do I let her know how much I want and need it right now w/o her getting angry and defensive?

It has only been 2 1/2 weeks since d-day, so I guess I should just wait.

Four years out from D Day.

HB for two years.

Now nothing. It is me, I feel absolutely nothing.

Did anyone else have the best sex of their marriage WHILE the A was going on?

I did. Now, to be honest, it's not really enjoyable, and I feel a deep resentment, mixed with fear that the best sex we ever had or will have was while he was screwing someone else.

Most nights he doesn't even come to bed anymore - he sleeps on his "chair" in front of the TV. We don't have sex as often as I'd like to, but in the same breath, I don't have that big of an urge to be that close to him right now.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I just really want the sex, not the parner.

FWH is not ready for sex. Still is uncomfortable. We are talking about it finally, which is progress.

I am trying to be patient. He feels pressured. I get it. I have let him know that until we have sex I will be unable to put the A in the past. The very action of him going outside our M to have sex and now not being willing to at least try with me to have any type passionate physical connection keeps the A in the forefront. How can you let go of the A and heal when every day the lack of passion reminds you that he chose to reach out to someone else?

I want to move on. I truly do, more than anything. But how do i do that without a passionate intimate connection?

I just need to decide how long I am willing to wait. At least if I left the M I could put the A behind me and move on in a different direction.

anyone sort of "forcing" themselves to have sex with WS? i do have a high sex drive, i just don't trust him enough to give him my heart again. the mind movies are too much.

do i take care of myself and call it a day?

Watch your backs, Ladies. If your FWH is not interested and always had been up until he left the first time there is a great possibility that it's not the finances or the kids stressing him. It's the thought of doing his OW wrong.

have to agree here. if you think you're in R, and the sex suddenly stops again, it's a huge red flag that no contact has been broken.

I discovered his long term EA with a fellow coworker a year ago and since then we might have a "short session" every 3 months. I'm to believe its because of his prostate cancer surgery two years ago that makes him not interested in sex. Thats alot of bullshit.

I've found those over the counter "make dick hard" pills in a secret place in his car. I've kept up with the amount of pills and he's using them and not on me so his "I can't have sex cause of my surgery" story isnt working for me.

After I have healed from my upcoming knee replacement surgery and buy myself a car, I plan to ask WH to move so I can enjoy the rest of my life.

No sex sucks!!!!!

Did anyone else have the best sex of their marriage WHILE the A was going on?

Nope. None. He "says" it was because he was too ashamed of what he was doing. He did pick ALOT of fights, use many varied excuses, finally I gave up trying.

But to fill the emotional void left, I started eating and gained like 80 pounds. Then I didn't want to start anything because I was ashamed of how I looked. I finally started to "use" that as the reason why HE wasn't interested (even though the disinterest came first before the weight gain).

Here's how it works at our house now. I initiate. If I want sex, I have to initiate. Yes, it bothers me sometimes, but it's only sex after all. I'l start things up if we've been fighting (to release those feel good hormones) but the "glow" doesn't last like it used to.

If I left it to him it would be 6-8 weeks between sessions. And believe me, after about 2 weeks, I'm so full of "he was with her a couple times a week and this is how he is with me" resentment brewing.

So rather than bear all that anger and resentment myself (he doesn't seem to care), I'll just tell him I need to get laid NOW or he suffers the consequences. Great foreplay .

I've brought it up in MC several times, I've tried to talk about it with FWH many times, I've joked, I've made sarcastic comments, NOTHING.

He agreed to the idea I read on SI about every night for 7 nights, well, I think that was 9 months ago, and it lasted one night.

I asked him whether he would be willing if I initiated and he said yes. (I'm so scared of being rejected and dismissed like during false R, and I want a relatively willing partner.) The last time I tried that was Saturday of Father's Day weekend. We had the house to ourselves, and we'd both showered after a fast evening walk...what does he do? He says nothing in response, takes my hand, kisses it, and puts it on the head of the cat who's in bed with us... so I'm supposed to do bestiality now instead??!?

Now I've started sleeping elsewhere, my daughter's room when she's at a sleepover, the guest room, anywhere else. It feels stupid in a way, 'cuz if I'm not in our bed there's no damned chance of ANYTHING going on.

But then again I don't have to lay there so conscious of his every move and breath, hoping, wishing, and then once again so disappointed and hurt. I can't do this much longer. It is sucking the joy out of my life.

We like to say we have shut down or it is stress but what do you feel really when or if they want to have sex?

Just asking...are you either afraid to ask for what you like or want? Did your sex life change thru the years? Did it change after children?

This is the breaking point for me...and WH knows it. He has Diabetes, is not a spring chicken and I know that some medical problems can interfere, but really, that never stopped him with the OWOMEN.....So, I've been told in the beginning that he had no desire (for me, actually, as at that time, he was doing OW#1 like a racehorse), then, during false "R", I had some problems and then when I found out it was false "R", I refused to sleep with him. But, that is all water under the bridge now. So, I have been asked not to "Pressure" him, by WH and therapist...so it remains the elephant in the room...and I think it is time for the elephant to go..really, I'm at my wit's end about this. It seems that the BS has SO many things to overcome...and then, begging for sex from a WH seems far too demeaning...even though I've done it...But, I am in a way better place mentally now. Much stronger...So I think it is time for him to go.

Is it that you are not interested in sex with your WS or that it might take a little more attention that you are not getting?

neither. i can't take the mind movies. they start right before anything happens, continues throughout, and leaves me crying at the end. WS is giving me more than enough attention, and i really do want to have sex with him. the mind movies ruin it for me.

What is up with that? I'll tell you what...I'm going for joint counseling tomorrow and will ask the therapist what he thinks is going on. Then, I'll pass any/all info on to my SI not getting any sex friends!! At least I can joke about it with people that are in the same boat... I don't want to leave...but I have a best female friend. I don't want that kind of relationship with my husband... I truly think I am going to move into the next bedroom. At least there I know I will not have sex and perhaps I can sleep better. I wake up in the middle of the night with this desire and know it will not be answered. This way, if I am in the other bedroom, I know my fate has been sealed and possibly can concentrate on sleep.

That will only work for a while, I'm afraid. I am sure that will lead to separation or divorce...as this is what happened with Marriage #1...and I put up with that for 22 years...my kids were young and I guess I just thought everybody lived like that...WRONG!! And, when I found out he was cybering, etc...I was more than willing to join in, to spice things up...but was told not to bother..He'd rather be by himself. Thank you and have a nice day...called counselor, called lawyer...and then, divorce... Really hope that doesn't happen this time. But, after 10 years, 5 of them fighting to keep this together, I'm tired, really tired.

Anyway, if I don't get any concrete answers, my plan is to move into the 2nd bedroom, and start living my own life. It will only be a short time after that, and I'm sure WS will be out...and you know, I actually think I am ready for that. This charade we have been living is too much for me any more. I feel bad about his kids, as we are close. But, you know, sometimes you just gotta do for yourself. And, after all of this work, I've had a long discussion with myself about trying not to throw in the towel...but truthfully, I cannot come up with any pluses on the plus/minus register any more. Either I am having a really bad day or the dawn is rising...we will see.

Yes, our sex life has had many reincarnations over the years together, through many pregnancies and 4 children. It's been the best I've ever had, it's been alternately frustrating, dutiful, fun, but it's always been there. Now I have x-rated dreams I'm so damned deprived.

Knowing what I know (that he doesn't know I know) about how inf**kingcredible the sex life was with OW – several new firsts for her thanks to my lovely H's patience and skill, romance novel simultaneous knock-your-socks-off O's, I could go on and on. That's of course also always on my mind when I'm begging him to be interested in good ol' humdrum married sex again... Hell, what if he says yes? I'd be a nervous wreck thinking he's comparing the two. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

I'm terrified of again being rejected, repulsed, and disrespected like during false R. It takes all my strength to make the first move, physically or verbally. But on top of that, I'm very stubborn, and after all this history, I really want HIM to make the overtures. I want HIM to show his interest and enthusiasm for me. I want HIM to show he's mentally back with me.

I want to be loved.

If this was a wife who cheated on her husband, every women here knows what it would be about. She would know that emotionally, her husband needed to know that he was the best thing she ever had...and that would be the start of the reconciliation. If that didn't happen, most men would walk...I'm sorry, guys, but I think this is true. I know there are some of you out there that are way deeper than that. But, I think, especially those of us with older spouses, this is the way that they think...
So, I am in agreement...I was constantly being denied intimacy with my husband..and now, rather than demean myself any further, I think it is best that I go on, without him.

It seems that in order for my WH to get his mind on the straight and narrow as the pursuit is the drive to other women for him...he was advised to abandon all thoughts of sexual behaviour on any level. He is supposed to be re-building our emotional relationship, my trust in him, and work on WHY he is driven to pursue women. It apparently is the chase and conquer that excites him. (Really!!) I was told by the therapist that WH is working diligently on all of the above and truly trying to save our marriage. It is all the he wants,,,to have a meaningful, monogomous relationship with me and will do whatever it takes to get that.

So, here is what I told the therapist. This has been discussed in the past with him, about how this no-sex thing makes me feel as a BS. And, the last time it was discussed, I was asked to "hang in there and be patient." That was 8 months ago. In that time, my WS and I have had sex approximately 2-3 times and only after I had an emotional episode...crying, bitching...etc.

So, I firmly and calmly explained this to the therapist...I am NOT THE ONE that has a problem. This is the problem that I have: Every single time I think about him F'ing the OW, telling me he did not have the desire for me, etc., I want to "Pay him back." I want him to feel the same pain I felt. I want him to want me so bad but not have me, cause I am f'ing someone else. And, then, coming home and sleeping in the same bed with him. Hmmmmm, the look on the therapist's face and WH's face was one of shock. I told them both that I have demonstrated all the patience I am willing to demonstrate. I understand the problem he has. And, at this point, I am willing to separate so that he can focus his attention to the problem 100%. In the meantime, I will be out, and looking. After four years of finding out, many false "R's", no measurable physical relations, I am up against the wall and I am pushing back. Of course both of them stated that this was definitely not the answer. I told them to both walk a mile in my shoes...then, got up and left the office. I calmly went to our car, waited for the WS to join me and then, acted like nothing was said. WH was very upset...."I'm really trying to overcome this problem." I know, I say...but I think you will be able to devote all of your time to the problem, living alone. I feel like I've been living alone all this time anyway, so the change for me will be minimal. The only difference is I'll finally be getting lucky. I told him not to worry...it was just a physical thing...when he gets his shit worked out..I'll probably still be around. I've said this before...but this time I meant it and he knew it. He told me after I left the office, he discussed some things with the therapist and the therapist gave him some techniques to use, so that both of us can achieve our goal. I told him he has 30 days. As of 8/1 if our relationship does not show a dramatic change, we will go our separate ways for a while, until we decide what it is that we really want.

I have to be honest with all of you. It is this forum that has encouraged me to stand my ground and claim what is mine. If that doesn't happen, then, it never would have. I am not "waiting" another 6 months to find out he is still having a "problem" and I felt that if I drew this line in the sand, he would understand, clearly, where I stood. Some may think I've made a mistake...and they could be right. But, I was not willing to continue to "wait for XXX more months" for that part of my life to return...like I said..if I was the WS, I know that I would be doing EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING I could do, to prove to my BS that I loved them, wanted only them, and wanted my marriage. I am not feeling that now. In order for me to move forward, that is the feeling I need. I'll keep you posted....

I feel the same way. I would like to have the feeling that my WH really loves me, wants me, only desires me. I'm asking for a lot, I know...but don't you think a man who cheated on his wife, comes back home to make a go of his marriage, that he would want her to know that she is really all he wanted?
If this was a wife who cheated on her husband, every women here knows what it would be about. She would know that emotionally, her husband needed to know that he was the best thing she ever had...and that would be the start of the reconciliation. If that didn't happen, most men would walk...I'm sorry, guys, but I think this is true. I know there are some of you out there that are way deeper than that. But, I think, especially those of us with older spouses, this is the way that they think...

I think if you read some posts from BH's here you will find that this isn't true.

Now having said this, I had a WS who told me and our older son while still foggy that he was not sexually attracted to me. I found myself trying to be a porn star in our bedroom for the first year or so to accomodate him and also for myself to find that "inner passionate person" again. I jumped thru emotional hoops to find it again. And now its all gone. I have no sexaul feelings at all right now and it scares the crap out of me.

I am checking into the hormone/thyroid issue but still feel so void...can't explain it.

This seems to be a logical plan of attack. I don't understand how any WS could even consider no sexual contact a way to help thed BS. THEY FUCKED AROUND ON US!!! Now we would like to be fucked....lots.

ETA: Sorry that was kinda ventish. This is extremely frustrating.

[This message edited by Jimi40 at 2:40 PM, July 1st (Wednesday)]

I hate pulling that trigger...do this or this is going to happen...but I felt like my back was against the wall and I'd had enough. I know that "time" is our mantra, but really....I think if nothing else, sex with your BS would be somewhat of a priority....or at least communicate why it is not, so that the BS can help...not only am I not having sex, I am not getting any communication about the problem...

We'll see what happens....

I don't think you can generalize about sex. But, sex for women is on a much different level than sex is for most men. I don't think men realize what a personal hit that is, when they have sex with other women. For women it is something we claim..it is ours and ours alone. When it is shared with other women, it is not longer ours alone. And once we realize it has been shared...it is not a good thing for a husband..

My husband has always had a lower drive. Sex the last 2 years was basically non existant maybe 3-4 times per year or less. D day was about 9 weeks ago. Sex has been more often but always I initiate. I asked him to initiate more. He says he is not and never has been very interested in sex. He says he does not NEED it. I don't understand. I think he is just unable to be in an intimate relationship on any level - emotionally, physically, spiritually etc.

Do you not like sex?
Does my happiness matter at all?
Does the family matter?

The question I think needs to be asked is are you willing to leave over sex? If not hwat are you going to do? We can wait be nice and flirt and to just constantly deal with rejection infrequest duty sex has a high emmotional toll.

What can we do the wanting sexless to go forward? This is the question on my mind because it is not a want it is a need in a real relationship.

The only advice I can give everyone who is being denied sex and intimacy is if you look at what you are doing and are happy with your effort the issue is not with you but your SO 100%. Please do not ket it tank your self esteem.

My only questions is what dramatic can we all do next? We have all tried the basics to no avail.

Since I declared the ultimatum, WH and I have had sex twice..Not bad...but the one thing that has changed is this...first time...it was SEX...second time...MADE LOVE...for the first time in I don't know how long. I am hoping this broke the ice and this will lead to a more natural sexual experience...I'll keep you posted.

Listen, this does not mean it will work for everyone. I think it all depends on where you are in therapy, in the aftermath of the affair, how far out you are and if you are in a true "R"....so, please don't push the WS against the wall, unless you mean what you say...I did..I was so willing to end this marriage. If you do not mean what you say, this and anything else, will fall on deaf ears. If I haven't learned anything else during this difficult time, it is that you HAVE TO MEAN WHAT YOU SAY. I am sure this journey would have ended LONG AGO, if I had jumped on the 180 and rode it out. I am not sure that my marriage would have survived, but I know I would have. And, looking back....I should have spent way more time on me than I did on "US"....because I WAS THE ONLY ONE SPENDING TIME ON "US"...I am sure a lot of you know what I mean. I know it is hard to do. But the minute I started to get stronger, the better I felt. I could see things clearer and knew that in order for me to survive, I had to start thinking about me.

I'll keep you all posted...so far, so good....and, best of luck to all of you...

Very good point, always be prepared to backup any ultimatum. If you can't follow through, don't throw it down.

Any update? Your last post was what I needed to hear. I am not ready to lay down an ultimatum yet, but I think I'm getting closer. We've talked/argued about it but I am not ready for an ultimatum.

I can't wait to end the duty sex and really make love with my wife again. I miss that part.

BH - I hope your initial good response has turned into more.

I thought of this the other day and told him tonight:

Being in this relationship with you like this is like showing up for work and all of a sudden one day they stop paying you. Yeah, there might be other benefits, you might actually enjoy what you're doing. But you realize quickly that the reason for being there is to get paid. When you ask the boss, they say they'll look into it, but nothing changes. Everyone around you is getting paid. Over time, you start to wonder how much longer you can actually keep going to work without getting the check.

I didn't tell him I'm looking for another job. I hope he can read between the lines and figure this out. I am at the end of the rope. I feel my feelings changing, and I don't want that to happen.

I told him tonight that I have told him for the past 16 months what I need for him, and the fact that he has been ignoring what I have said is taking its toll. If he cares, why would he not deal with the problem?

I'm the one in IC, it's not the fact that I have no sex drive(In fact my sex drive is on overload big time!), but trying to get over the mind movies, and the fact she told me that they never used a condom.

I was deployed for 8 months and she started having an EA with OM half way through, for 4months. Then she waits until I come home to start having a PA, and the only reason I can guess for that is that the kids got in the way while I was gone. The PA continued for another 4 months after that.

Also for me knowing the last person she had sex with wasn't me and that she gave herself to someone else after 8 months of us waiting for each other, at least I thought. She went and gave all of her drive and anticipation to OM!

I feel as if I don't get over it she may do it again, but I also feel I want my 8 months back! Not only did he receive something that was so special, but more importantly the fact she gave all of her sexual desire and purity away, bust most of all her love! Another is that we haven't been intimate since the day I left which is a little over a year, being that I wasn't the last one...will she compare me to him, things he may have done different that she come to love during sex, and will she want me to do those things to her just as he did? I'm just really scared, not only having sex, but deep kissing make out sessions as well.

If there are any BH's who feel or felt the way I do and over came this fear, I would greatly appreciate to hear from you all.

Also, I would like to hear from any FWW's if they compared their BH to the OM, and if you wanted or asked your BH to do some things to you that the OM man did, or if their BH had similar problems.

[This message edited by cantbreathe09 at 4:27 PM, July 26th (Sunday)]

Has anyone else gotten past this and gone on to have a good/great sexual relationship?

but my SO is always ready to go, and i mean ALWAYS. it's crazy. but what has helped me is explaining to him my situation. he gets it and understands. my sex drive is very out of wack. there may be a month or week where it's all the time. then the next month or 2 i don't want to be touched. so it's a bad rollercoaster. but SO understands and has made the ride ALOT easier on both of us.

That was nice and I even started feeling turned on.

We have been kissing more and more. I'm just leery because we had been having lots of what I call "maintenance sex-" pre D-Day, not grim, like duty sex implies, but certainly not any extended foreplay, lingering touches, sweet and soulful connection. And I'm definitely not down for any maintenance sex!

I told him, "hey, I know you can do it right. You HAVE done it right in the past. Remember?"

So I figure in a few weeks, if he puts in the time and energy required to seduce me and turn me on a super lot, he'll reap the reward!

But I can't just give it up cause I'm pissed. He's expressed sorrow that I don't want it- I know it's an important way for men to show their love.

I also know I become a lot less bitchy for a few days after a good sess! Just not wiling to give up bitchy yet, I guess.

,A's ruin so much and are so horribly painful and destructive to everyone it just seems crazy if you ask me. What a stupid waste of our time here on earth,,this is all bullshi@ and I am so tired of it all,,aren't you?

Yes, they do ruin so much. And yes, this is a stupid waste of our time. I feel like I have had the last year of my life hijacked. I will never get that year back and I sure don't want the remaining years of my life to be spent wondering why my H doesn't seem to be interested in having sex or being intimate with me.

She robbed me of something that she has to give back to me. I feel the "ball is in her court" so to speak. What she took from me was security in myself and who I am.

I feel the same way. I hate knowing that the last person my H slept with was the MOW. I know he wants me to get over the A, but how can I when everyday I think about the fact that he is knowingly choosing not to be intimate with me even though he knows how much I want us to be close again.

Wineguydfw...not even sure how you made it 5 years... I don't think I could go that long knowing that my spouse was consciously making a decision not to have sex or be intimate with me.

I don't think you are being on-sided. She betrayed you, so why are you the one who has to initiate the intimacy?

Well, at least you have your wine

WH and I have talked about this and he insists that it's not because he's no longer attracted to me... it's just his body isn't cooperating. Prior to the A he would complain that he didn't think he could satisfy me the way he felt he should and talk about being an old man (he's 46 and 11 years older than me) ... so I guess I would accept that maybe it has to do with aging and also his own self confidence... except that, of course, he was obviously capable of satisfying OW! He tells me he's just not interested in sex at all... but, once again, I know that he desired her and, unfortunately, I got to read his emails to her about how he fantasized about her at night, wishing for the chance to be with her again...

Also, right around the time of the A, he stopped kissing me... and he's only kissed me a couple of times since we started R. He says he doesn't enjoy it... but he seems to have forgotten that he told me while in the fog how he couldn't wait to touch OW or kiss her...

My drive has always been high (higher probably than his) and I never cared about initiating in the past... but now, even when I REALLY want to... I can't. So I think we were intimate 1-2 times in the last 6-8 weeks.

It's bad enough that he doesn't seem to want to be intimate... but I also have started to feel like it's just ME... my body that he's not attracted to. I've always known I wasn't his normal "type" and with OW he reverted back to the "type" of woman physically he has always liked...

I'm starting to really notice when other guys check me out. And even bringing this up to talk to him about makes me feel bad because what guy is upset about having a wife that wants him all the time?!?!

But if I don't talk to him about it, things will just stay the same way and that will definitely be a deal breaker...

I guess any little step toward connecting should be seen as progress.

So I will give a happy smile for rear slapping!

[This message edited by lookinforward at 10:48 AM, August 5th (Wednesday)]

I'm the WS. We havn't had sex in...ready for this...coming up on 3 years. For the first 9-12 months or so after D-Day, we had alot of sex. Mostly very emotional, loving, beautiful. With hours and hours of discussion. Then...on 10/9/06 she told me "I can't be intimate with you right now...I'll come to you". That was the last time.

There have been attempts by me. I've asked...serious, playfully..nada.

We did C for a bit...and alot of things in her came out...kinda unrelated to the A. She all of sudden stopped going to counceling. I still see a shrink...monthly.

So I keep plugging along. I was very close to calling it quits this weekend, when I couldn't take the rejection and loneliness anymore..but I'm getting my head back in the game.

The lack of intmacy isn't doing my self-esteem any good. I think it is killing me...alittle at a time.

To have someone to hold you when your world is crazy is amazing and for those who have that...God Bless!.

What happened on 10/9/06?

Are you sure your BS didn't start her own A? The reason I ask is that it seems awfully odd that she was okay with having lots of sex for the first year but then stopped.

My problem is we haven't had sex since the A...but if my spouse were to know about an A then have sex with me and then quit and say they can't do it any longer I would be suspicious. Of course I am a BS.

And, looking back....I should have spent way more time on me than I did on "US"....because I WAS THE ONLY ONE SPENDING TIME ON "US"...I am sure a lot of you know what I mean.

Yes, I too was the only person working on us...so now I am just focusing on me. I am trying to be pleasant and showing him attention, but I am done asking for sex. Last MC session I said, there is nothing left for me to do...this is his problem and he needs to figure out what is wrong if he wants to fix it.

Several times I have said I don't know how long I can go on like this and said I have to figure out if it would be better to end our M. And he asks if that is what I want... and of course I say no. Sometimes I wonder if he wants me to end it because he can't...but he says no that is not what he wants. But why would he continue to act in such a way that it will drive me away?

Lack of sexual affection is such a cruel, isolating problem. A's taint the water so much, then having a lack of sexual follow-through, that's just plain belittling.

I hope my sex life improves. So far, nope. Combined with her indiscretion/s, it might be too much for me to take. I guess time will tell. Don't know how long I can take a duty-sex marriage.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I am hopeful.

Just looking for hope...

WW wants it, but I could care less-I have always had a high libido, but for the past year or so I just simply do not care-don't pursue it or really enjoy it.

I guess I thought we were "special" or something, I dunno.

Think why did your W (or even H) have insane desire for the AP?

1) They were not always available. Scarcity
2) They often had someone else (their AP). They were competing.
3) The Ap often did not do very big gestures for your WS.

And this advice I am giving here will and is very controversial and hope maybe just maybe you see that being what I have and many have been will often fail.

I have been way too available nice trying to be all and obviously as all you have given so so much. Doing anything. Damn you think I was the BS.

1) Get busy especially without WS. Do not be so available and the key HAVE FUN when you do go out even if fishing or shopping at the shoe store. I am not syaing do not do things with your spouse .... just not EVERYTHING. Get a life of your own!

2) DO NOT CHEAT but talk with members of the opposite sex. My wife once almost attacked me when a woman out of the blue spoke to me who was attractive. I will never cheat but the fact I have been doing things to make myself more attractive has made me attractive to other and my wife maybe for moments realizes what she is missing.

3) Here is the MOST BRUTAL thing I can suggest. When You have table scrab once a month sex TURN IT DOWN. Flirt but do not instigate sex and flatly refuse. You may even want to give say 6 months of NO SEX. Darn BRUTAL.

Things have gotten better for me and while not their yet I finally feel back into control of me and my sex life. I gave WAY too much power away to someone after the affair has NO BUSINESS with it!

sex has become something of a chore to me-& it is simply get on, & get off-no intimacy whatsoever. I know I really should not be bothered by this as a man, but still.

I get the "boo hoo you don't want me" from WW already tho. I just wonder where my libido went-I think OMM took it.

I have been working very hard medically to explain my loss of libido..meaning I have been open with my H and also going thru some peri-menopausal type of things along with female issues that will need surgury. So I am ACTIVELY trying to get to the bottom of it, not sitting there keeping quiet and hoping it will go away.

My question is this...do you ever feel that even tho you are being honest and working at getting to the bottom of something that it just never is good enough? I mean the last time we had sex it hurt and was uncomfortable but I am trying to hang in there as I know men have needs...but I get the feeling my H still feels "neglected" and is getting very P/A about stuff again and I can feel the tension in the air.

So even tho you have talked out loud and communicated, at what point is it just never going to be enough? I mean if anyone watched the Oprah show when Suzanne Somers was on and she talked about women going thru this time in their life and how you really just have no feeling, you will have sex but you would rather "have a smoothie" in her words I about spit when I heard that because it is so true.

Thoughts? Be nice please, this is a very touchy and painful subject for me.

Thoughts? Be nice please, this is a very touchy and painful subject for me.

Are you still okay with him touching you? If so, perhaps you could try different positions....or find different ways to pleasure him (perhaps after he gives you a nice massage).

Also, have you read Passionate Marriage?

Also as I just suggested to realitybites... have you read Passionate Marriage?

Of course, I am not even having sex yet with my WH (by his choice)...so I can only give advice based on what I would do if I happened to be lucky enough to be in the position of FWS wanting to have sex...not based on actual experience

Any BS here whose WS wasn't interested in sex at the beginning of R but now things are going well?

Oh yeah. She was not interested; then there was the brief HB, then she went back to not interested.

She projected her SA onto me, said *I* had a problem, and we took a "break" for 30 days.

This was supposed to "reassure" her that I didn't want her "just for sex and nothing else". (no matter what I told her, she believed THAT).

After that, we picked up again with rather infrequent, and mechanical sex.

That was about 6 months out. That's when my "rage" stage hit, and when I really began to accept the truth of what she did.

And my attraction to her just fell off the map. I *can* do it. I just feel "creepy" when she touches me. She gives me the willies. So in the past 10 or so months, we've done it maybe 4 or 5 times.

I still see "Rosie" fairly often. Yeah - that's EXACTLY why I got married.

Picked this apart with my IC, and it's pretty simple. My libido is gone, because I have zero trust, I don't feel safe with her. I told her, and of course she acted very hurt - but deep down, I think she's relieved, because she *is* a SA, and to her, sex is nothing more than a tool for manipulating men, a "duty" to her. A chore. So, now she never has to suffer that anymore. In short, she's happily a dry-drunk. (Unless she's still seeing OM. . . )

A lot of it with me is psychological. Also physical as I had a hysterectomy very early on in our marriage. We have been married for 36 years because I don't count last year when he had his MLC and EA with his "just a Friend" bull shit.

Anyway, where was I, oh sex or lack of it. Also a problem is alcohol. He can't get it up when he is drinking and he is always drinking except in the early mornings and I don't really like sex in the mornings. So I guess we will always be a odds. He also refuses to shower on Saturdays or brush his teeth, so Sunday morning is not working for me.

I've tried estrogen cream and all it does is make my face break out.

Hope this wasn't to blunt for anyone.

I noticed he just didn't want to anymore once when he came home. This would be appr. three months after he met her. Although one time he came home and held me like there would be no tomorrow. He lives abroad.

Anyway, I'm glad he doesn't want sex right now, because I wouldn't even if he paid me. Kind of joking, but actually not. No way right now. We are going through with a divorce though, and have both agreed so it's different than with someone R I think.

I don't know. It just hurts, and I can't become intimate with him ever again. I can't even think about our intimacy or I get angry. I want it even away in my mind right now.

For the two months I had off from this painful obsession, I learned that 1) I could live without the obsession just fine, 2) My wife was warmer, more open, and able to be physically close to me, and 3) Her desire for sex was not going to increase.

It is our 14th anniversary tomorrow and I'd say the vast majority of those years has been me wanting, begging, pleading for sex and not going anywhere. Meanwhile, she was banging some guy for 5 years.

She has the sexuality of a child due to abuse, mental illness, and self esteem issues. While I'm not perfect, I think my sex drive is pretty realistic, healthy, and open to whatever she is willing to try. Besides this NOTHING we're trying right now.

But this sucks. Sorry for all of you, and just telling you I'm there too.

Still no sex from husband . Every time I try talking to him about it he shuts down.

I wonder how long I can go on like this. I don't want to have an affair (which often made the frustration worse) nor do I want to divorce. H does not want to divorce either.

My problem is pre A our sex was great...she would initiate and clearly enjoy the sessions. Post A to current the drive is gone. Of course this leaves me confused for obvious reasons.

I am afraid that it will never return...and I can't fathom my life without the JOY of sex with my W!

After my DD#2 I was not really interested in sex with her. After a short time I realized that no sex from me could very well mean sex for one more OM. Once I got past the idea that the well was poisoned I was able to drink the water, and have a pretty good sex life.

She was the same towards me before, during and after the A. She did not hesitate to initiate, and was more than adequate in the sex dept.

There are some very legitimate reason for the non interest in sex. I have had experience with two. #1 Menopause. #2 ED.

When she went into menopause her libito dropped, but the real show stopper was vaginal dryness. That makes sex very painful for the woman. It is also a turn off for the man.

Now for the ED. That really is a total show stopper. No way to have intercourse with a soft dick.

The reason I am giving this health class is the fact that you do not have to be my age to experience these problems, especially the man stuff.

Without the history of the A in your head, these problems exist. A man can have a failure, think about the failure the next time and have failure again. Hello performance anxiety. Now, add in the A. If you have failure are you having performance anxiety, "ghosts" in the room from the A, or could it just be a total physical problem? If the ED pills don't help then it is time to see Dr again. I go next week.

The good news is that my WW regained her sex drive. With some medication the dryness in not as severe. Now if I can just get fixed. ( That was a poor choice of words. Male dogs everywhere are saying "DON"T GET FIXED!!" )
I should have said repaired.

I know why my drive is gone but trying to explain to WH that just doesn't seem to sink in. He says he understands but 10 minutes later he is back to trying to initiate.
I'm hoping my drive comes back. Of course I also wish WH would see and actually understand what I'm going through on this.

The A has hurt me even more because of this. She wasn't able to feel anything for me but she was with the OM. Now we are attempting - I stress that word - to reconcile and it seems all she does is want to have sex.

Now it is the furthest thing from my mind. Not that I dont want to but just that it would be incredibly degrading to me.

My WW is not interested in sex ATM. It has been 4 months w/o sex...well, that may not seem like a long time to some...it sure does to me. Our MC asked us about our sex life yesterday and we told MC it was zilch. She told us to go "do it"....even if it feels awkward at first. We'll see how this works.

Anyway...why the hell does a WW not want to have sex? I mean, it's not like she is grossed out b/c I had an A. Shouldn't I be the one "not interested"? Strange stuff.

[This message edited by Just Crushed at 5:41 PM, November 4th (Wednesday)]

Anyway...why the hell does a WW not want to have sex? I mean, it's not like she is grossed out b/c I had an A. Shouldn't I be the one "not interested"? Strange stuff.

You know, this question gets asked lots, and the answers are always, guilt, depression, something along those lines, I'm pretty fucking tired of this shit, and I don't think I'm going to be nice about it any longer.

It's time for her to suck it up, and show me the attention I deserve from her. The bullshit stops now!!

I know what you mean. Not sure what you do about it, short of leaving, which I'm contemplating. I'm not going to "rape" my spouse. If he finds me that unattractive physically, well, guess I need to give us both an out. Just wish he would have done that before ripping my heart out and stomping all over it and my ego by having an affair. Because being in a sexless relationship with a spouse that cheats is the epitome of salt in the wound.

[This message edited by Pentup at 7:26 AM, November 6th (Friday)]

About 4 months ago I told my wife I was not satisfied in the marriage, primarily the lack of sex. I never said it this way before, making it clear the marriage was failing.

She responded by sharing her dissatisfactions as well. We left it at that and I went back to counting days between sex and preparing myself mentally for divorce.

After a while, she went to her doctor. She is now on Prozac and applying a testosterone cream to increase her sex drive. I have seen much improvement in both morale and sex.

I would rather a happy wife that wants sex than an angry, frigid roommate any day - even if it takes the drugs.

PS - I know nothing about these tests, but on a scale of 0 to 7 she was a 0.1 in testosterone. Apparently the norm is 5. She is 49 years old.

Menopause/Perimenopause is a bitch.

being in a sexless relationship with a spouse that cheats is the epitome of salt in the wound.

couldn't have said it better myself!

ds

I wrote a frustrated letter, and she gave me a hug.
Now, we actually talked about divorce, and I bought the "kit" today. Maybe we can hash it out like adults--if not, I have a lawyer and it costs about $3k.

Now that we've reached this stage, she wonders if we should separate for a while. Hell, I've been living like a roommate for years now. I'd like to move on.

We love each other, but she has no desire for me and admits it was "different" with the OM. That's cool. I just don't want to be living with a woman who is incapable of loving me back the same as I love her....

Sounds fair enough to me.

Were you guys having any sex at all, or totally sexless?

Kwills

Please help me.

Do not succumb to this. Break off contact with the OM. If it is time to leave your husband, then do so. But don't sleep with OM again so long as you or he are married.

I have previously lived in a mostly sexless marriage and got to the break-point where it was time to leave or have my wife follow through. I made it clear I was willing to go and she responded to it.

I have been tempted and had opportunity to cheat, but did not do so. For your own sake, lay down the law and deal with the fall-out. I hate the thought of divorce, but it is better than a marriage filled with deception and hidden affairs.

Don't do it.

Hey, I'm in my early 40's, and for most of my married life I wasn't getting the amount of sex I wanted. When it gets too bad, I tell my wife.

What kind of person do you want to be? What kind of relationship do you want with your H? Is contacting the OM going to get you there?

I knew something was up with my wife when she was cheating, when she confessed, I was shocked a little, but not surprised.

Your H may know something is up, even if he can't put his finger on it. That probably doesn't help.

Then it started tapering off, but that was understandable since we had an infant to deal with.

In the last 5 yrs there hasn't been much sex to speak of. He's too tired, too stressed, too something.

I just found out last night that he'd been having an affair for 4 of those years. I can't even blame her, because he never told her that he was married.

Well, he *finally* broke it off, and a few months later the woman found out that she was pregnant. The baby is 18 months old.

Still no sex. Right now that's a good thing because I don't want him touching me.

The year before we got married we had sex 1x. The year we got married we had sex 2x. Afterwards it was 1x every 10 or 11 months. I knew about his massive amounts of porn. He knew I was writing erotica. (I now consider every one of my stories an EA, by the way.)

It took me until this year to start asking the really hard questions and start digging for answers.

The tipping point was that I knew he likes lingerie. In April I spent good $$$ on a sexy outfit. Only to have him feel me up and give every apparent indicator that he was enjoying hemself, only to then tell me the outfit was the wrong color and he wasn't that interested after all.

I gave it a few weeks, even bought the same outfit in the right color (couldn't bring myself to put it on, though). I know DH saw the outfit several times. I know he pleasured himself at the thought of the outfit several times. I even found a picture he photo shopped with me in the outfit. Which was more than a little creepy.

But then, when he was receptive to talking I somehow asked the right question. DH told me that he didn't think there was a woman alive who wanted his sperm, he was that much of a failure. In another conversation he told me he was having confidence issues. I asked the right question again and found out DH pleasures himself at least 5x a week. And when I challenged him about 'confidence issues' he blurted out that he didn't think actually having sex was right because it would upset his mom. So anything he did had to be absolutely perfect and on paper, because paper was easier to hide from her if she walked in. This is quite a stunner to hear from a 45 year old male who'd not lived with his mother for some time.

(I have since learned all 3 answers were taken off of movies/tv shows/web cartoons or blogs. But I believe the last answer is probably the closest to the truth when put in context with other things that I am now aware of and that his mother is independently confirming.)

Through all of this my message to my DH has been exactly the same: Stop lying. I'm tired of it. Just tell me the fucking truth. I'll pull up my big girl panties and deal with it.

Last time we managed to get horizontile was in Oct of '08. When I reminded him of the date in Sept of this year it took him two months to ramp up the effort to try and sleep with me. It was completely mean, I know, but I turned him down, told him no more. I couldn't handle the emotional roller coaster. It makes me a very bad spouse, I know, and an even worse friend.

The thing is, with everything else that's going on in our lives. I knock before I enter the office and he knocks before he comes into the bedroom. It's not a perfect situation, and it's not a forever situation. But it's a hell of a lot better than looking up and realizing my DH is giving me pity sex and that I may have to wait another 11 months to see that look on his face again.

H isn't interested in sex anymore, unless i beg him, and then i feel bad that i had to beg...i don't want pity sex, i want him to want me. There's no kissing, no hugging, no hand holding...nothing...unless i initiate, and then it's like he doesn't even notice. If i hug him he doesn't hug back, but if i raise his arms and put them around me then he'll keep them where i put them, but that's it.

Initially after the A we had sex constantly...i was tryin to reclaim what was 'mine' and he was doing whatever i wanted. Then i went through a phase for a year of trying to do w/e i could to make him happy...cuz i thought the A was my fault, so i had to be better than i'd been before. I'm over that now, but i'm not sure he's being faithful, i've found incriminating text messages and he had an excuse, and for some reason i still love him, so i don't want to believe he's actually cheating again unless i catch him in the act...but at the same time part of me KNOWS he's cheating on me again(whether he is or i'm just paranoid, i KNOW) Divorce was brought up and he told me i need to clean house more...if i clean house everyday he'll have sex with me...but i don't want to be a housekeeper that gets paid with sex. I've been thinking about cheating lately as well, i told him i was thinking about cheating because to me that means we have some serious issues we need to work on....he just told me that he wishes i would cheat on him and get it out of my system.

I know i posted alot and some of this may seem like venting, idk...i've just never had any help with this and i would love love LOVE any advice out there anywhere for me...i feel so lost..still, after 5 years, someone help me please!

It doesn't sound like your H respects you. Is he open to marriage counseling?

I've been focusing so much negativity towards him for not giving me what i need that i wasn't accepting my own issues. Is the A what caused my self-esteem to drop? ABSOLUTELY...but does it have to stay so low? i think not. I've been assuming he feels the same way about me that i felt about myself. I'm starting to feel sexy again, maybe i should assume he thinks i'm sexy too

Hmmm...the more I read on this site the more i realize i need to worry more about what i want/need from myself, not what i want/need from him.

spot on

Then 9 months later his OW died and he freaked. That's when I discovered the affairs. They had ended by the time he came to me and said he was miserable and wanted out.

But the sex thing REALLY got to me.... how could he have sex with so many women so often and we were getting by (after the divorce threat) with maybe once a month. But to me, after 10 years of celibacy, that was a TON of sex.

But lonerider could be right.. He may know something is up, not the specifics, but I bet he suspects you were going to leave him for someone... that's why the quick turn around. You know I think we women immediately jump to the "you're cheating on me" and men to the "you want to leave me for someone (but you haven't had sex)" because I think that's society's "norm".

You HAVE to cut off all contact with OM. Not just for yourself and your M, but because anyone involved in an ongoing affair is not supposed to be here. And if you're still in contact, and it's still secret, you're still in an affair. We're trying to survive it.

Go to Wayward and get some opinions from our fabulous FWs on how to break free for good.

Lonerider- I WANT to be the respectful loving wife who stands by her man thru thick and thin. My R with H is great in most aspects except when it comes to sex. And NO, contacting OM will not get me to my goal of a strong united marriage. My H DID suspect something was up when I was in the heart of my 2 month PA, and I denied it. That's the time he TOTALLY changed for the better and gave me about the BEST time in our bedroom. (Unfortunately, not even an inkling of that has carried on....it's as if he reclaimed me and has me sitting idle in this respect.) I did meet OM ONCE last summer. Weird thing, it was just OK, but I suppose something was better than nothing to me. But I have to ask myself, 'Is this REALLY worth it?'

KikiD- I am so sorry about your circumstances. So sorry.

Sammie- Your story brings back memories of YEARS ago, when things weren't SO bad...I too put on sexy lingerie, only to be ignored. Devastating, I say.

Old-I too, am glad I found this site. At least I am not alone. I once tried getting advice on a popular health board in regards to trying to figure out his sexless drive, only to bet blasted pretty badly. In regards to housework? Heard the same BS from my H. And couseling? Been there, done that, except, unfortunately, sex was never brought up as it wasn't the severe issue at the time. And he says he will never go to counseling again.

Weepy- Thanks for the advice. This site is great and I will check out the Wayward side. But you mention 'still secret', is it mandatory to confess to H? To me, that seems selfish in the fact that it relieves MY conscience, but pains him.

You know, for YEARS, our marriage was bad. And my self esteem was LOW. He used to tell me all the time that ALL of our problems were ALL MY FAULT. I felt worthless and wanted to check out of life itself. (He would yell IN MY FACE, two inches away, eye to eye, that EVERYTHING was MY FAULT.) Somehow I picked my self up. Then OM, started giving me attention at the same time we decided to split. When I strayed it was when we were apart, just house in common. I had ALL the taletell signs of a cheating wife....VERY possesive of my cell phone, secretive on the computer, wearing cuter clothes, make up done all the time, etc. But then again, at the time, it was not really his business due to the fact that we were separating. My H has NO SIGNS whatsoever, of cheating, but sometimes, people say things and it makes me wonder. His hygeine is not like you would have if he was meeting someone, I see ALL of the cell records, he DOES work late, but that is certainly explained, and he goes NO WHERE once he is at home. And at work? There is no opportunity. His boss is a woman, NOT cute in ANY way, and is most likely a lesbian. I could NOT see him with her. But I must say, I could not say 100% that he has not strayed. I could say a 1/2% that he has.

Thanks for the insight people! Will check this site out more. Just glad that I am not the ONLY ONE in this situation.

[This message edited by sexless at 11:29 AM, December 18th (Friday)]

It sounds like your H was abusive, it's not an excuse for cheating, but it makes it more understandable.

It's easy for me to say, but if you've talked to your H about your lack of sex life, and he's not willing to fix it, or go to counseling, it sounds like you've done all you can do, and can consider a divorce.

I'm new to this thread but definitely not new to some of the feelings expressed here. For me (BS), sex with H has always been wonderful, but as I entered my mid to late 40s, my urges -- naturally, I think -- began to wane. H's did not, but since he expects full participation from me (as in me orgasming, nothing less is acceptable), then I cut back on our frequency. I didn't necessarily WANT to, but I just wasn't interested or physically able more than once a week. He was already having to take Viagra, and I guess I thought we were both just getting older and it was OK even though he was always making suggestive comments and sometimes getting downright mad at me (but still not wanting me to have sex unless I REALLY wanted to). I felt between a proverbial rock and a hard place

Then came the A - she gave him everything in spades that he wasn't getting from me. She was head over heels just freshly in love with him and totally full of herself as some sort of sex goddess, so why wouldn't she, especially trying to manipulate him by playing up to his studliness as much as possible.

Meanwhile, sex with me became "eh" (yes, his description), and yet he was still pestering me for it all the time but still insisting that I be totally into it. My dilemma seemed to be getting worse and I felt more and more despondent about it, but still trusted him. I didn't know what to do about his anger that I didn't initiate more and didn't throw myself at him more, because he requires 1/2 an hour for the damn pill to start working. To me, initiating was asking him to take a pill, but apparently then I'm supposed to do a fan dance for the next half an hour and tell him how studly he is and how badly I want him, and not be faking it at all, of course.

Okay, so things were not good, but I thought we had reached some sort of compromise (I still didn't know about A) that once a week, I would give him and sex with him my all (and thoroughly enjoy it for real). But even during A when he was screwing her in the back of her car every chance he got, he was still pestering me for more, more "eh" but still moer.

I don't think he's a sex addict by the strict definition, but I do think he's very oversexed - it seems to be connected, whether physically or mentally or both, to his machismo Latino upbringing.

D-day happened and part of my RAGE against him was why - if he was getting everything he wanted constantly from her - did he still make me feel so crappy about not throwing myself at him more. Well, his answer was that he really just wanted me, and he wanted me more, but since he couldn't have me more, he had her, but he really wanted me (underlying message - all my fault).

In an attempt to R, I have tried SO hard to overcome some of my aversions, to act a lot more interested, to remind myself that just being close to him is wonderful even if I'm not going into orbit every time. But the bottom line is we now have sex pretty much every other night, and other than once a week, I'm totally faking it. After 25 years of reality, I'm pretty good at knowing exactly how to fake convincingly. And of course, I've really painted myself into a corner because he's convinced I really WANT all this sex with him all the time, when reality is I'd still be so happy with once a week where I don't have to fake anything at all.

This past week has been really difficult, and we've had to really work at achieving anything, and since I already resent having to fake for him, I really resent having to fake for more than an hour because he needs me to do this for him (he was actually whining). Why can't he JUST SLOW DOWN?! Why do we still have to try and behave like we're in our 20s?

He's told me that if I lost interest in sex with him, he'd pretty much have to leave me, which reduces our marriage to little more than just a way for him to have sex. But if that's so all-important, then why did he choose me over OW who was gladly giving it to him every time she could? I'm just so confused, and feeling so trapped by my own actions to try and make him happier.

He cheated on me but I feel like I'm having to do all this work to make him happy. I just don't know what to do. I know it's not honest of me to fake it so much, but I don't think he wants to really hear honest. And frankly, honest might destroy our marriage completely... It's a real dilemma and I don't know if I can stand this for another 10 or 20 or however many years.

I'm sorry, it doesn't sound like your H is treating you as an equal in your marriage.

I'm a big believer in being honest with your spouse (but not malicious).

What are you getting out of this marriage? What's the worst that could happen if you're honest with your H and he wants to leave?

Wow...ok, i gotta ponder on all of that for awhile

I got so mad when I heard that - I told him he should NOT have ever condoned anyone having an affair. It also tells me that he's still lacking in the whole empathy department cuz obviously he hasn't even thought a whit about how hurt the friend's wife would be.

ANYWAY, the topic of his sex drive and machismo issuse came up in our MC, which lasted about 3 months after D-Day. But that counselor was convinced that the culprit was the Viagra. Apparently she's read many studies proving that when guys go on that pill and can suddenly have more erections, they want to go use them somewhere, whether the wife is interested or not.

That wasn't what happened in our case - WH had already been on Viagra for a year and didn't have his A to use his Viagra more; he had A because his life was boring and the best way to spice it up was to have great sex with someone new who would make him feel hot and studly again, and need him constantly in that way.

So since that's the same C he's seeing now as his IC, they pretty much don't talk about that - they've been concentrating their discussions (as far as I'm told, which is limited) on "How can we make H happy?" so he doesn't think he needs to have As anymore. And that may be why H has stopped his IC sessions altogether, because the ideas she's come up with involve... work on his part

What are you getting out of this marriage? What's the worst that could happen if you're honest with your H and he wants to leave?

On good days, I'm getting a friend, support person, lover, and all sorts of good stuff again. On bad days, I'm wondering why I'm still in this M and if I wouldn't maybe be a lot better off on my own. No other man, just on my own. I'm too scared. And when I'm having a really bad day, I kick myself for all the opportunities I had - with good reason - to leave this past year and a half after D-Day 1 and 2, but wussed out.

All I hear from her right now is that she just doesn't feel it.

That must be so painful and rejecting feeling. I am so sorry.

I am a BS and haven't been able to have sex since D-day. For ME, sex is about trust and safety, feelings that don't come easy after an A. I have sexual feeling for my H, but have felt feellings of regret after previous closeness (making out, etc), so I've just pulled the plug on the whole thing. My H is very needy for physical affirmation, but I just can't seem to bring myself to do it. And I refuse to force myself.

Now in a happy new relationship.

*If someone wants to be part of your life, they'll make an effort to be in it. Don't bother reserving a space in your heart for someone who doesn't make an effort to stay.*

Your WW sounds a lot like my xW.

During our 12 year relationship I can count the number of times she initiated sex on my fingers. Sadly there is no way whatsoever to count the number of times she rejected my advances.

With the exception of small boost (like holidays) we averaged between 2 and 4 times per month, whereas I'd be more happy with that per week.

However, with the OM it was more than once per night the 2-3 weeks per year they saw each other. Whilst she didn't dislike the sex with OM, she's admitted that she sometimes felt the sex was the "price she had to pay" for the emotional side of the A.

With the assistance of hind-sight, it is clear that my xW had(has?) many issues with sex. She's in some ways quite repressed and doesn't like to admit that she's a sexual creature (like most of us are) and have urges and needs and instead repressed them.

Many years ago we had an argument about our sexlife, or more accurately lack thereof. I should have encouraged counselling for both of us then, now it's too late...

It is very hard for a BS to reach out to their WS for that intimate connection knowing they have had an A. So when we reach out and then are rejected it is significantly more painful. As I like to refer to it... like rubbing salt in the wound.

Although my H and I did not have a very active sex life pre-A, after his A I realized I hadn't paid much attention and used his A as a catalyst for hope and excitement at creating a wonderful, exciting, and intimate sex life. But, H isn't interested. So over a year and a half I have tried to keep my excitement going, but it weights heavily on me every day.

We are in MC and he is in IC and hopefully he will figure out how to fix what he is feeling. So...I don't have any answers or advice...just wanted to say I understand.

Do you ever ask your spouse...if you are not feeling it, then why are you here?

Our sex life was decent but it started to decline after I got pregnant with our second child (he's 17 now). Sex dwindled more and more until 5 years ago, he was diagnosed with prostate cancer and had the surgery and they saved one of the two nerves. Sex is nonexistent.

Doctors say he can still have a functional sex life but he's given up with me. Don't know if he has a sex life with OW but its not with me. He takes care of me orally on a regular basis but he isnt interested in me trying to pleasure him.

I bought a pump - he says it won't work. I asked him how would he know unless he's tried it before with someone else. Then he says he heard from guys he's talked to who have had prostate cancer surgery that it didnt work. Just because "they" said that, I wasted $100 because he refuses to try it.

I bought a "hollow strap-on" because he felt so bad one night when he tried to have intercourse and he couldnt stay hard and he saw that I was frustrated. He mentioned that he wished he had a strap on so I could be satisfied so I bought one. He wont use it because he says if he gets an erection with it on, it would hurt his penis because it would be squeezed in the hollow penis.

I can suck his dick for damn near an hour and he just lays there. Every so often he shows some "movement". He gets a great erection and I can keep it like that as long as I'm sucking it but as soon as he puts it in me, it goes soft or, it will stay hard and he will have an orgasm, but its not a good, "make your heart beat fast" orgasm.

He has given up on trying to have a satisfying sex life for himself where I am concerned.

Being the loving wife that I try to be, I was so concerned about him that at one time I was willing to turn my head while he gets his satisfaction elsewhere.

That is until I found out about his 10 year EA (and probably PA) with a fellow coworker of ours. She could be giving him the sexual release he needs and he's just laying there with me.

As far as sex with me, 'he's just not that into me.'

It isn't for lack of him "trying" (or what he considers trying) to work on R. He wont go to counselling and I think that is the one thing holding us back.

Between that and still having alot of anger, I just don't even want him to touch me.

Just when I thought we were going in the right direction, the anger comes back...

I know he is under stress, but I feel like it is just another excuse. Then I wonder to myself why am I trying to force this man to have sex with me? Isn't that what I am doing?

I ask if he still desires me and he says yes, if he didn't why would he be going through all this. He still can't even agree to an action to help move things forward, like perhaps just sleeping together naked (no pressure of sex). But for some reason he can't even bring himself to do that. He said he couldn't tell me why because it would take longer than we had for our conversation (we were limiting our time).

He kisses me hello, goodbye, goodnight, hugs me occasionally, is a little flirty at times...but he still can't seem to cross the line. He asked me to be patient, to relax and not worry about it or be anxious about it. I ask, how long do I wait? It has already been a year since he said he wanted to work on M, do I wait another year, 5 years, forever?

I honestly hate what his actions (the A) have done to us. I hate that if someone were to ask when the last time is that we had sex, my answer would be 2 years and 9 months and his would be 1 year and 5 months (that I know of). I hate knowing that the last person he had sex with wasn't me

[This message edited by lookinforward at 2:00 PM, January 28th (Thursday)]

It is coming up on three years since I've had sex. I could see if I were single, but I'm not. I'm married.

He's still kissing hello, goodbye, hugging, holding my hand, a little flirting here and there. But the kisses last no longer than a split second and the flirting never leads any place. I want us to be able to talk about it without him becoming upset. I want so badly for us to reconnect physically.

It has been so long that I am uncomfortable now. I have even started covering myself up somewhat when I am undressing at night.

I have gone past the anger, still somewhat sad, but I guess I am nearing acceptance that this is what has become of our relationship because I don't think about it every day like I had been.

I do not believe he is still in A. I just think his A broke us and he isn't sure how to fix it.

ETA: we were supposed to be taking an action to move forward since the last time I posted...but we have had two family deaths recently that have had a great impact on our lives. Maybe Spring will see our relationship change for the better - I can only hope so.

[This message edited by lookinforward at 1:22 PM, March 31st (Wednesday)]

Still nothing here. Not sure how things are going to end up. We seem to be getting closer, but can't seem to venture into the physical.

He doesn't want to talk about it...he would rather me just wait around until he feels comfortable and he will make his move. I have let him know that I am now very uncomfortable and would prefer for us to plan a time so I will feel more at ease.

[This message edited by lookinforward at 12:31 PM, April 13th (Tuesday)]

Had to reply when you said that you were looking for people in the same situation as yours...

Here I am...

...can'r remember when we last had sex even before that...took us to MC last spring....I think we had a quickie this summer.

I remember when we went to Hawaii with the kids last Feb./09 I wanted it so bad that I pleaded for it twice in 2 weeks.

I would get hugs...until I found out that H cheated...now I can't even get me to touch me..He says that there is no one else now..I talked about this and told him how much the rejection bothers me.
One night recently he did hug me as we were in bed...I hugged back.

The next night I started hugging him and got rejected...

that hurt so bad!!!

Now I am looking for the separation.

After the first couple of years we slowed way down.... then a year before his A nothing...but mostly because i didn't initiate and didn't notice he stopped initiating. Thing were very stressful in our life (not our M though, another family situation).

I feel terrible that he has lost interest, it has made me feel very self-conscious. It is just so awkward that I don't feel comfortable naked in front of a man I have been married to for 14 years.

I am once again in the giving up place. Our last MC session went well and we talked about having a weekend getaway with the intention of experimenting with physical intimacy.

I am just not sure how we get through this....

Is there anyone out there that has figured out how to get through this type of situation? Specifically a WS no longer wanting sex with BS?

other than what I said in the last post....maybe a year or so ago...he started not giving any foreplay and I started loosing interest...it started hurting actually(too dry) and he would get upset when I tried to ask for(or just casually show him what felt good) more foreplay.

I also stopped initiating as much.

I tried to but I was thinking he was rejecting me still since something happened about 8 years ago...my story is in my profile.

Now with no touching or hugging it feels like a major rejection again...I am giving up.

Do WH stop wanting sex out of guilt of what they did or do they feel like they are cheating on the OW?

I think immediately after the initial discovery, that the main reason a WS doesn't have sex with their BS is because they're still in touch with the
AP.

But a year after I am not sure what to think. MOW is in another state. I do not believe he is in contact, but as I say all the time...you can never be 100% sure. He could be talking to her when at work. He doesn't need to "run out" on the weekends or weeknights so don't believe there is contact then.

I am holding out hope we will get there. We have so much going on in our lives right now that it is hard to take the time to relax. Though we did go out of town for the first time since his A, it was for a business trip.

I am hoping we will be able to schedule a weekend for just the two of us to explore each other again. But in my eyes, he has to want to do it and I want to see him be the one to make the effort (pick the place at least if not plan the getaway). I need to see some effort from his side that he wants to head in that direction.

The biggest thing I try to get through his head is that because we are not having sex, it is a daily reminder that he had an A and is making it very difficult for me to put his A in the past. I wonder if he isn't having sex with me because he wants to remember the A, he wants to remember the sex with MOW and not replace it with sex with his wife.

Just confused. I want to believe his words....but the saying doesn't go - Words speak louder than actions, does it.

********************

I know my question has popped up over time, but I just can't seem to find a post on it this morning.
We are over 1.5 years from my first DDay -- 11 months from the last DDay, when I found out the EA was actually a 5-month PA.

Even though I am counting our R from the last DDay, my problem/question started from the first one.

I read so many posts about HB...but we NEVER experienced that part of the aftermath. In fact, it flipped 180 from our sexual dynamic.

Before and during the A, my H was extrememly sexual -- he would often remark that he wished we could do it twice a day. Even during the A, when he was home, this didn't change.

After the first DDay, it went to zero in a flash. We went to Marriage Encounter, had an amazing experience...and when we were feeling the closest, he still didn't really want sex. He did -- and still does -- want all of the other initmate, emotional connection. A lot of touching, holding, etc. -- he holds me every night as we go to sleep.

But he rarely initiates sex. We might do it once a week -- or every other week. We spend a lot of time together in bed, but there is no sex. I initiate, but am often rejected.

I don't know if this matters, but I have basically the same body as when we married. I'm no model, and I wouldn't win a beauty pageant, but I believe I am attractive -- I still get attention. Things have shifted a little (three children!), but I keep in shape. People tell me I look 15 years younger than I am. On an intellectual level, I have never felt inferior or in competition to the OW in any way, shape, or form. And until this rejection started, I never felt inferior to her on a physical level. It just didn't occur to me that her body would be any better than mine -- she is a little shorter and stocky, while I am taller and lean.

But it occurs to me now.

He is depressed, and I know this. But as a WS, can't you see past your depression and try to make your BS feel desireable? To me, that would be the most important part of R -- but he is working on himself and trying to see past his depression, and can't seem to see what is happening.

So, why no sex with the person you want most in your life? Does the depression really affect you that deeply -- so deeply that you don't even see your own BS in that way? Even if you are suffering from ED, do you really NOT want sex so much that you reject your BS in trying to pleasure her/him -- the very one you are trying to reconcile with?

I know this is rambling, and I apologize if my question is somehow lost in the jumble. But I am truly confused and disappointed in this aspect of our relationship. And while I have room in my head to help him through his depression on other levels, I can't seem to be so understanding about this.

It just doesn't add up to me. From horny dog to basically celibate in a matter of days?

Over a year and a half of waiting for this phase to pass. Trying so hard not to let it ruin my self-esteem.

***************

I have since had several long discussions with my H about this, and he says he is trying to process it, as well.

According to him, his pre-A mentality was so very selfish -- and that selfishness bled into the bedroom. As I look back, I would have to agree; however, at the time, I sort of passed this off as "he's a man, wants it more, etc." It was one-sided most of the time, if you get my drift. I was (past tense!) fine with it, as there were many nights when I was really tired myself.

The way it is now is killing my self-esteem. I know he has depression issues -- I have been taking ADs for depression for a couple of years...and his A came right in the middle of what was the worst pit of it. I still was willing to "satisfy" him and try to make him happy in the bedroom.

Sheeeeeeesh....just putting that down makes me so sad for the girl I had let myself become then...

Most of the time, I can put these awful thoughts aside and help him deal with his depression. I do love him, and I think that because I have been through that stuff, I can guide him through, as well.

But every time the opportunity is there to make love, and he doesn't...every single time...my chest tightens, my head aches, and I hold back the tears. Because every single time I am brought to my knees with the reality that he chose someone else over me. That he did this horrible thing, that he was the one to break it -- but I am supposed to suck up the fact that he is further rejecting me by not wanting me.

I am rambling this morning and am probably not making any sense. At least I know I'm not crazy...that HB does not always happen in the wake of DDay...that I am not the only one going through this.

Hugs to everyone here. It really is another circle of hell.

ETA: We have read the Love Languages book, and he does know that physical touch is one of mine. I am doing all of his (time and acts of service), but he cannot seem to fill this one for me. And I am the BS!! It just seems a little backward, doesn't it?

[This message edited by healingwife at 5:35 AM, April 15th (Thursday)]

BTW I don't even get any touching. I have tried to do the touching or hugging in bed, and gotten rejected.

Maybe it doesn't matter , for me, because of this we are heading for S. I can't do all of the work to try to R, only to get rejected, when I was the one betrayed.

This is just one question I would like an answer to.

[This message edited by wobbly127 at 2:56 PM, April 15th (Thursday)]

Have you tried talking to your W about what is hurting her? Tried romancing her, tried different positions? Have you tried making it all about her to see if she responds differently?

If it honestly hurts her you should both be trying to figure out how to fix it. Does she need more lubricant, is there something physically wrong with her, etc.

I would try romancing her without expectation of sex. I know that was one of our problems before my H's A. I always felt like the only time he paid physical attention to me was when he wanted to have sex. Which then begins to make someone feel as though they are being used for only one thing.

How does she respond to you when you give physical attention to her without the end result being sex?

problems before my H's A. I always felt like the only time he paid physical attention to me was when he wanted to have sex. Which then begins to make someone feel as though they are being used for only one thing.

This exact thing killed the romance in our M...even before I found out about the infidelity.

I thought that it was my age...I was dry and it hurt as well..I got lubricant...then I realized on the occasion that he actually showed me some attention during the day and gave me some decent foreplay and came to bed at a decent time...that I didn't need the lubricant.
I tried telling him (in a nice way), but it just angered him...he said it felt like I was telling him "he couldn't do that right"

Last week after reading posts on here saying it had gone on for yrs i confronted him...saying i couldnt live like this..he said he just doesnt feel like sex at the minute, but i am scared the longer it goes on...the more it will become the norm ???

[This message edited by hyperglad at 7:48 AM, April 18th (Sunday)]

We didn't even have HB. So I think that would be bad to have had HB and then have him back off like that.

It is really a blow to the self esteem, but I try hard to convince myself that it isn't me that is the problem.

I know what you mean about worrying the longer it goes the harder it will be to overcome. Not sure what we are going to do. We are in MC and we are supposed to be doing something to move us forward but nothing is happening...just stalled.

well that sealed the deal, out now. He called about 5 times i told him not to embaress himself he wasnt gettn back.

I felt ok too, got up this morning and got ready for work...he called..he needs to talk...well i dont bye..

He then turned up begged ,pleaded, sorry, do anything usual BS... i told him i loved him but he wasnt getting back until i knew he meant it all. So i told him to leave and find somewhere to stay b4 it gets too late.

He couldnt keep his hands off me...weird.. like he was turned on by my strength,,, i told him no chance after what he had put me through.

He asked could he date me if he found somewhere to stay i said i would see, so i guess he has woken again, but he needs to get to the core root of his problem b4 i let him home.

I’m so jealous of my friends who’s husbands can’t keep their hands off their wives.

I’m tired of talking about the subject. I'm getting lonely and beginning to think I should move on.

Any thoughts?

Those fantastic three word "Are you done yet?" sure is a mood killer.

Never take a person's dignity: it is worth everything to them, and nothing to you.”

So, why no sex with the person you want most in your life? Does the depression really affect you that deeply -- so deeply that you don't even see your own BS in that way? Even if you are suffering from ED, do you really NOT want sex so much that you reject your BS in trying to pleasure her/him -- the very one you are trying to reconcile with?

I'm 12 months from my dday. WH had a very brief A with a MOW while working for a company in another state. When I discovered the A, WH went NC instantly. He even quit the company and came home. It was over and done. He's been wildly remorseful ever since and has done everything possible to help me heal. With saying that...

As soon as I found out about the A, I grabbed him and went into HB mode. The way I needed to reclaim him through HB was insane!

My WH's guilt made it hard for him to perform. Just as the BS has a world of emotions swirling around our brains, so do the WS's, even the genuinely remorseful/love their wives WH's. Emotional stress plays havoc on a man's penis. When a man experiences ED, he does one of two things: he visits his doctor to rule out a physical cause then gets a perscription for meds to help him maintain his erection, OR, he pushes away his wife because he's embarassed and is waiting to see if it fixes itself.

If your H is experiencing ED and is not on meds, I'd suggest to him that he gets checked out for physical causes than get a medication.

After my dday, my WH went to the doctor and we learned that his ED was due to emotional stress. He's been on medication ever since...and we have a lot of sex I know it's good for me and I know he enjoys it also!

It's been 12 months and he's not going off medication yet. Why? Because for the last 12 months I've beat the shit out of him emotionally. I'm on a rollercoaster and he's had no choice but to be on it with me.

We both believe that if/when I can become more emotionally stable, than his need for medication will go away.

Hope that helps anyone out there...

Had another "talk". H is upset that I want to have a planned trip where we can try to reconnect sexually. H is upset that I feel a need to talk about it.

Basically I told him I didn't think there was anything wrong with me wanting to make the event a special thing. My god, it has been over three years since we've had sex (2 of them after he had sex with someone else!). Does he think I'm going to be okay with him just jumping me one night after 2 years of telling him I wanted to have sex and him refusing?

I just wish we could reconnect and get on with our lives. But I want to reconnect and acknowledge it is something special, a new phase for us, a new beginning to our M.

Oh well

ETA: He said it wasn't about me it was about us. So how is it about us, if he isn't willing to make an effort to make something special out of this.... I contributed by waiting for so long.

[This message edited by lookinforward at 5:30 PM, April 22nd (Thursday)]

WW keeps telling me who she constantly feels gross because of it and intimacy is in the toilet (pardon the pun)

Good thing I have many interests when I'm up by myself at night.

...and time keeps tickin away.

Yeah, then again sometimes I think an active sex life is just papering over any problems we have.

What does it do to a BS when their WS says they do not want to have sex with the BS after they had an A?

So lately I've been wondering what is it going to be like. What is it going to be like to have sex with my H after not having sex for 3 years.

And lately I've been wondering...how do I feel about giving my body to a man who not only cheated on me, but then afterward said he didn't want to have sex with me.

And lately I've been confused because at times I don't even know if I feel like ever having sex with him again.

How does this get fixed? He says I made a big deal of it by wanting to go away someplace. I say he made a big deal by refusing to have sex all this time when I was more than open to creating a brand new incredible sex life for us.

I am not sure he really understands why I want a grand gesture...why I want him to go out of his way to make this a special experience. I don't think he understands by just "doing it" without fanfair it comes across to me as just another slap in the face....just like the three false R's were a slap in the face. Why am I not worthy of making this a special occasion?

I can only hope his going to IC will continue to open his eyes.

Every once in a while, I come back to this thread, hoping to see something positive, something that may mirror what I have gone through and then, a solution. But, that never happens. It is truthfully a sin. I am beginning to think that I have to make that next decision that I have really tried to avoid, but I truthfully cannot continue this way.

I am the wayward spouse and it has been about one year since dd. At first, things were just....foggy I guess is the best way to describe, for both of us.

We are in marriage counseling and things were going well for a few months - still having sex, and trying to work through things so that our lives can start in anyway to become "normal" again - whatever that is.

Recently, however, things have become extremely akward for me regarding sex. Not sure why I guess. I enjoy sex, but feel nothing. In fact, I try to find ways to avoid sex with my husband. I am not on medications that would affect libido - I just feel so uncomfortable. We both want to work things out, and obviously sex is extremely important.

I wonder if anyone has ever gone through something like this, and what are some solutions? Mostly what I have read is that the betrayed spouse is not interested in sex, but not as much with the wayward spouse.

Like you, I am waiting for "the weekend" and hoping it comes soon. I keep telling him our M has to be a priority, but I am not sure he gets it. If he did then he would have already had the weekend planned.

Rukia....this forum is for BS and WS, but I am not sure if you will get the type of feedback you want on this thread (but who knows!). Have you tried posting on the Wayward Forum? Other waywards may have a better feeling for what you are experiencing. Have you gone to IC? It might help you figure out why you are feeling uncomfortable now. Are you bored, ashamed, or something else?

[This message edited by lookinforward at 2:32 PM, May 24th (Monday)]

I feel the same way, and I am 4-5 years out. Not sure what to do. I wish someone had an answer. I just avoid, avoid, avoid.

Kwills

I'm 5 months pregnant. I want sex. All. The. Time. But not with WH. Not with anybody really, it's just a biological, hormonal urge that I can never satisfy. When I say never, I mean never. Not even on my own (ewwwie!).

But anyway, my reasons are as follows.

1. I am 25 pounds larger than my usual self. Self explanatory.

2. I have little to no detail about the ONS other than the fact that she was a stripper (or should I say whore?) and is one of 15 girls that work at a particular club... and I know how attractive the 3 OW were (as my H had pointed this out prior), and I'm not about to compete with girls that I know were exactly "his fantasy type" since I'm more girl next door. You know, the one that is pretty but you'd never know it because I actually don't run around looking for sex all the time or trying to turn life into a fashion show.

3. STD's. I got tested immediately at 3 and 6 months and have nothing. Well, I have nothing that was tested for. There are some that weren't tested for but there are over 120 possible diseases that I could have and no routine STD test tests you for all of them. It is horrifying to have to walk into your Obstetricians office and ask for a "more complete" STD test 5 months pg.

What makes me angrier is that my WH STILL hasn't taken any initiative to test HIMSELF. I'm already pregnant and I get poked and prodded constantly, it's the least he can do to go get a freaking complete STD test/culture done.

4. I am a freak in bed. I like to get freaky. I like it fun and exciting, sometimes rough, sometimes sweet... but these things all require trust and complete lack of reservation. Two things that his infidelity completely destroyed.

5. I'm disgusted by him. I used to think he was the BEST kisser in the entire world. And I kissed a lot of boys before I met my H and believe me some of them were talented. But not like he was. After everything sunk in kissing him is like kissing a slimy pond fish that was caught three hours ago and has been sitting in a bucket of muddy water waiting to be cooked. You can imagine what his pp makes me think of. Every time he touches me I wonder if he touched them the same way (well, I KNOW that in some cases he did because I SAW IT) and those touches that I used to love make me want to rip my skin off. I don't even like the way he smells anymore.

6. I'm angry. And I feel like if I try too hard to have some fun intimacy again it will feel forced. Or he won't be into it, and I will get rejected again.

The BEST thing he could do, would to be treating me like we are dating all over again. I want to do it over. I want our first kiss over again. And I want it romantic. I want to go out to dinner and end the date at the doorway. I want to pretend like we're just roommates at home (not feasible for me to move out) and slowly fall in love all over again. I want him to ask when he wants sex, like you would if you were first dating. I want him to STOP trying to fix what he broke, and START trying to make something new with me.

I also want to get laid, so if he could get a clue sometime soon that would be AWESOME

Only good thing is my H affairs have never affected our sex lives. I learned right from the begining that him having sex with another women was not about sex. They were not about love either because he never had an emotional relationship with either.

This being said I am still struggling with the fact that I have come to him in the past about him not fully satisfying me because I am always the one to start things. I want him to be the agressor for once. And it ticks me off that he went outside the marriage and slept with another

I do get very emotional when I make an advance towards my H and he is not in the mood. It makes me think he does not love me or is wanting to be with someone else besides me. I have no idea how to get these thoughts out of my head. I hope this gets less after time. Its like rubbing salt in an open wound and the wound just happens to be on my heart

Sorry you are going through this too.

RE:"I learned right from the begining that him having sex with another women was not about sex. They were not about love either because he never had an emotional relationship with either."

The thing that I find most frustrating is that for him, it was ONLY about the sex. It wasn't that the sex was bad (it was GREAT) with us, it was that he wanted sex with other people. He thought it would "make him the man" so to speak. The difficulty is he still only sees it as "cheating" because it wasn't an affair because it's not something he deliberately planned out.

Re: "I do get very emotional when I make an advance towards my H and he is not in the mood. It makes me think he does not love me or is wanting to be with someone else besides me"

Same here. I hate that he doesn't act like he wants me anymore. (Sometimes I think it's because this is our first baby and he's a bit freaked out by that too). Or I hate when it seems like it's a job for him and how fake it feels when we try to be intimate. Where's the passion we used to have, that made us rip off eachother's clothes and got me pg in the first place? I feel like he made the mistake so he should be working TWICE as hard as he did when we were dating to woo me.

I think I would have a hard time dealing with the fact that my husband thinks it makes him more manly to sleep around. I wish you the best dealing with this.

My situation is unique compared to most affairs. My H suffered from major depression for over 15 years. He had a very hard childhood and a very horrible relationship with his mother. The relationship with the opposite sex parent affects how people view sex. My husband also has a very weird sexual history he has only had one other girlfriend prior to me that lasted more than a week and all but 2(me included) of his partners were ONS. Both As meant nothing to him. No prior feelings towards them and nothing after. It was fueled by oppertunity and him not being able to identify his feelings and handle them in an appropriate manor.(man my spelling suck LOL)

Some times knowing a little about psychology and mental illness sucks. It interfered with my recover last time. I vowed to try my hardest this time to heal myself before I think about his problems.

Right now I am dealing with the fact he does not like having sex due to the baby. We went through this last pregnancy and it is happening this time. I have to watch what I say leading up to it and during. I can not mention baby or anything it creeps him out. But still when this happens my feelings go to the hurt and do you really love me thoughts. It sucks so bad that ones mind and heart hardly every line up when it comes to situations like these.

WH is supposed to plan a getaway....still waiting.

I busted FWH for frequent online porn viewing after installing a key logger a few weeks ago. I made a deal with him--no porn for a month and I wouldn't ask him to "work on the relationship" in any other way for a month. I told him I can't live with no sex and find it disrespectful that he prefers to spend time looking at strangers online rather than his own wife.

The first night after keylogger discovery was not good--we had a pretty big blow up. But since then (a few weeks ago) we have been having sex 2, 3 or 4 times per week. I would be happy with every day, but I am thrilled at the change. I'm skeptical that a change like this can be this easy and permanent, but I'm hopeful.

Me? Still waiting. But H is being way more flirty and he did say to me the other day that he didn't want me to be embarrassed in front of him in a very sweet way.

So who knows... guess we are crawling our way to having sex some day in the future.

[This message edited by lookinforward at 9:40 AM, June 17th (Thursday)]

What does it do to a BS when their WS says they do not want to have sex with the BS after they had an A?

So lately I've been wondering what is it going to be like. What is it going to be like to have sex with my H after not having sex for 3 years.

And lately I've been wondering...how do I feel about giving my body to a man who not only cheated on me, but then afterward said he didn't want to have sex with me.

And lately I've been confused because at times I don't even know if I feel like ever having sex with him again.

I could have written this part word for word, lookinforward.

He never promised me a weekend away, or anything special. I never asked for anything like that. I wouldn't even mind a total failure in the bed, if only he looked at me and acted like he wanted me again.

The hurt is really too much at this point. I told him probably a month ago, when we were arguing, that I don't even want to have sex with him anymore at this point. I thought....well, I should say I hoped that that would make him see just how serious this has gotten. It has now been two years and three months for us without sex. He attempted one night to have sex with me back in January, which left me feeling worse than before. It was a forced situation, one where I was in bed, pissed off, and basically told him that I just need to be fucked. We started, but it soon became obvious that he really just wasn't into it. It was mechanical. We used to have the BEST sex before he cheated on me. Maybe if I had no idea of what he was actually capable of, I would accept whatever he gave me. So we quit. I cried. Then we talked, in bed, an intimate conversation unlike anything we have had in the past year or so. He then asked me if he could oblige me again. And the second time was really no better, except for the fact that he actually asked. He did not orgasm; neither did I. So in my head I don't even really count it as an attempt.

I remember so clearly a huge blow-up we had only one month into this sexless relationship. Never in a million years would I have guessed that I would still be involved with him without any sex this far out.

The other night, I went out and got extremely drunk, which is not something I ever do. I came home and sent him a very long e-mail, telling him pretty much what I have been telling him for the past two years. Only this time, I was not so concerned with hurting his feelings. Hell, my feelings have been hurt for far too long with the whole situation. So if he feels a little hurt by the e-mail, I refuse to feel guilty about it. That was Saturday night, and I have not spoken to him since.

At this point, I think I am ready to move on. I want someone to share my life with...my whole life. Being in a sexless relationship drives a wedge so much deeper between a couple than you would ever expect. I told him in my e-mail that we are not lovers, and I don't even feel we are friends at this point due to the fact that I cannot even tell him how I feel anymore. I keep my emotions to myself, I keep the hurt to myself. It has taken a toll on me. I really can't take it anymore.

I don't expect anything to change, simply because if there was any chance that it would change, it would have happened by now. I truly feel it is hopeless. I turned 40 two months ago; and although it didn't bother me, it really does at times put things in perspective. I just don't want to waste any more time being with someone who is not emotionally or physically intimate with me. I have given him so many chances to change. I have tried every tactic in the playbook. There really is nothing more for me to do, except move on. It saddens me to no end, because I do love him. But after this much time has passed, I really am looking at every day as another day further away from the happiness I deserve. I deserve someone who wants to make love to me, someone who wants to be intimate and close to me. I deserve someone I can share everything with.

I have just been so sad. The constant rejection is so wearing. It really brings you down. I've told him repeatedly that I would do anything to fix it, just tell me what the problem is. I would work on anything. But since he offers no explanation, other than it's "him" not me, and that he really does want me, and that he is attracted to me. It's all a big blah, blah, blah, because it never changes.

Tonight I am extra sad, and am so glad I have my SI friends to cry to

[This message edited by rottenkitty at 3:54 AM, June 22nd (Tuesday)]

Do you think just getting a divorce would have been the better step?

We're still on the once a month plan, if I'm lucky. I'm hoping DW's job switch helps things, it hasn't yet.

Is the lack of sexual fulfillment in a marriage enough to call it quits?

My answer to that is no, absolutely not. But the feelings I am feeling are well beyond an unfulfilled sex life. It is the constant rejection, the constant feeling like you're not enough, the constant nagging in the back of your head about how the person you love is not attracted to you. And he says he is not rejecting me (?), he says that I am all he wants, and he says I am the most beautiful girl in the world. I believe that he feels that way, yet the problem is still there. There is absolutely no sexual, intimate connection.

It's not the sex so much as it is all of the other feelings you get from connecting with the person you love. If there is no sex and no passion, then I feel I have a friendship, not a love relationship. A friendship is fine, but I am not going to commit the rest of my life to a friend. I want a life partner and a lover, someone who can share everything with me and I with him. That includes sex.

I can get an orgasm by myself, that's not special.

Knowing my wife desires me, is willing to give up a little sleep, is willing to make me feel good, that's special.

You need to be content with yourself, for yourself. He does not define who you are or how sexy you are. You can search the world over for that one person who might make you feel that way, but you will probably always have doubts because of your self-image.

After going nearly 2 1/2 years without sex with my WBF, I might not feel in my heart that he finds me the sexiest person in the whole world. Some days I would be very hard to convince that he is attracted to me at all. But I know that the problem in my relationship does not have anything to do with my physical attractiveness. There are things much deeper going on.

I also know that the way for me to feel better about myself is not to seek that gratification from outside of my relationship. There is no man who can replace feelings of desire from my BF. When you truly love someone, you do not act out in selfish ways that serve your ego. You work on your relationship and make it a better place to be for both of you.

I have tried many things...NC told him to stay away and leave me alone..he lasted 4 days then contacted me... i have tried being nice, kind..just made me feel nore rejected.

i have tried 180 i think my h enjoys me not hassleing him..all of this and the affection...emotional or physical intimacy just hasnt returned.

Like other posts he says he loves me is still attracted to me WTF...sorry i dont buy this..i too am now getting to the stage were i am questioning do i want him. We have been together for 22 yrs with almost a yr since dday and about 4 mths now without sex. Maybe i am less patient than others ..and although it is about the sex it is more about the lack of emotional intimacy that goes along with it.

He has agreed to come on vacation with our son..and 7 other friends on thursady and i am going to tell him it is make or break... he either tries or when we come back im done... i am 52 and i sure aint wasting what i have left of my life sitting around waiting for crumbs from a man who disrespected me so much to have an affair in the first place...my own self respect will not allow me too.

[This message edited by hyperglad at 3:39 AM, June 27th (Sunday)]

18 years ago, my husband left our marriage, emotionally and sexually. We had a small child, were living in a strange city, and ---without communicating such---he was tremendously dissatisfied with a number of things in our life: his career, the (normal) growing pains our marriage was experiencing, the change in sex patterns small children can create.

He started with "working late"---going to strip clubs night after night after night. He spent tens of thousands of dollars over a couple of years; it was impossible to hide from me. He did manage, however, to convince me there was no physical contact.

(I later found out that two infections I contracted during this time were STDs; D-day #1 came 4 years ago---14 years after he had intercourse with at least 1 stripper. One of the infections, incidentally, debilitated me for an entire year--at no point did he suggest I be tested, so it went untreated in my oropharynx until it showed up, some time later, on vaginal swab. The second was not diagnosed until I was in labor with our second child. Neither was identified for me as an STD until 4 years ago---or I would have been very aggressive about requirements for R and/or divorced him 18 years ago. But I digress...)

He lied about his infidelity ---and our marriage and sex life suffered. Intimacy was impossible; the lies were a huge wedge between us.

But we had sex--for a while. We had another baby, and moved back home---and as often happens when you have a young family finding time was difficult. But I never believed it to be a problem more significant than that. We loved each other (I thought.) We had sex---not like bunnies, but enough that we'd laugh and say, "Hey, that's fun. Let's do it again soon."

In 1999, he had a massive MI. It left him with considerable heart damage and requiring over a dozen drugs daily. This profoundly affected his ability to have sex.

He was content to let me believe he couldn't have sex. (In a deposition related to his injury, he testified under oath that he could not have sex, as well.) It was very frustrating to me, but I felt guilty---after all, the poor guy had lost even more than I had.

Very occasionally, he would rise to the occasion, so to speak; we've had sex around 5 times since 1999. I tried very hard not to feel rejected, to recognize this as part of his illness rather than a continuation of his earlier rejection. It was very difficult for me emotionally--but again, I reminded myself that he was ill, that he was doing the best he could, and so on.

Until two years ago. While ostensibly trying to reconcile from the stripper infidelity I'd recently learned of, we got absolutely nowhere. I was in it alone, I discovered. I learned that he'd been trolling online, and had met an AFF whore with the intention of having sex.

He says they did not have sex, but "just kissed." ("Just kissing" is a recurrent theme; he adopts the Clinton defense: if there's no vaginal penetration, it's not sex.)

Around the time of that second D-day is when he started to claim that I knew that he could have sex, but that I would not have it with him--that for the past 10 years, he had not manipulated his disability to avoid intimacy with me. Rather, he claimed he'd discovered, after a med change at some ill-defined place along the road, that he COULD have sex, and that I had rejected his many sexual advances. I did not perceive any advances.

In fact, learning about this AFF woman is how I learned he was able to have sex---and, further, how I learned that sex with me was what he doesn't want.

I was devastated--and met with blameshifting (still ongoing; he refuses to own the sexual abandonment; last night he said, "that's not all on me, you know"), lying, and an absolute refusal to do anything to help me heal.

He has been in IC for 4 years--with a coddler and enabler who hand-patted him right into a full-blown A he had last year.

Our sex life did not resume (despite continual protestations on his part that he WANTED to, if only he wasn't so continually REJECTED by me---all the while being too tired, too sick, too ....absent, too busy, too ANYTHING TO AVOID IT) but he gave himself permission, a year after the AFF D-day, to move from Facebook to email to phone to PA with a woman he "reunited" with surrounding our high school reunion.

The week before the reunion, he had an overnight business trip---and stayed in HER hotel room. His response to my dismay about his dishonesty is to pull out his Blackberry, twiddle it a bit, and show me that he did, in fact, have that important business meeting, just like he has every other year; that he would have been staying overnight even if it wasn't for her. (And his response to my suggestion that he now do the traveling the morning of the meeting was not, "I know--I will have to make that change so you can feel safe," it was, "Okay, you haul your ass out of bed to get me to the train by 6!")

The weekend of the reunion, they kept separate hotel rooms, kept their liaisons secret, and had sex both nights--oral and intercourse. He told her he loved her.

They decided to "end" it--but really, kept up phone contact until the most recent D-day. Another wedge completely preventing any form of intimacy--sexual or emotional---with me. For the last year of our "R." They spoke regularly, and most particularly about my deficiencies as a wife---making me feel raped.

And needless to say, our sex life did not resume. He continued to blame me as a smokescreen to conceal his affair.

For over a year (before this last A), I begged him to switch therapists---he was learning NO tools, gaining NO insight---and it was harming our chances for R. He scoffed, his therapist scoffed. "Where did Betsy get her psych degree?"

The week before the last D-day, I read on a public message board a post he'd made about reliving a magical weekend in Washington during a recent business trip.When confronted with this, he finally gave me passwords (but only after sanitizing accounts---he missed ONE crucial email, which is how I found out about his full-blown A; I am sure he never would have told me otherwise)----and told me I knew everything, and that for the first time, he was 100% committed to our marriage.

Only, well--he was still in his EA. I did not know everything (and he has NO intention of sharing everything), and he was not "100% committed."

We're 7 weeks out from the D-day that followed. I am sure there are many things I don't know. I am still being blamed for the lack of sex in our marriage: I didn't respond, I didn't initiate, I didn't pick up the mental freaking telepathic messages----there must be something wrong with ME to overlook HIS needs so that he has to go somewhere else.

I have been destroyed as a woman. I have PTSD, and my sexual confidence does not exist. The last affair? The last nail in the coffin.

R? We're 7 weeks out from the last D-day. He has fleeting glimmers of insight (he admitted he liked being unsatisfied so he'd have a reason to look elsewhere), but no remorse or empathy. He claims he is "working hard," but years of doing NOTHING have left him believing that a compliment a day is adequate.

I don't know what I'm looking for here, other than maybe validation that I'm not insane...or alone.

What's going to be different this time? Your H sounds majorly screwed up.

You can have sex and make connection or have connection and end up having sex.

people her have neither.

And it warps you in a way.

You may have kids at home and want to have a normal life and know taht things do not look like they will ever get better.

But you stay and cope somehow .... hopefully not by cheating.

And in the end feel very isolated and alone.

The sex is like a background beat to teh main song.

Us without much sex do not get hugs, big kisses, giant smiles, GOOD suprises.

You feel defetaed and almost become forced to do other things like hobbies, friends, investing in the kids.

BUt you are trapped and very alone.

And I think taht is the most dveatstating thing in this.

The lack of sex makes you feel very alone and you should not feel like that when you have a spouse.

There were times in the beginning when I was open to trying to put it all behind us, but only to find WS was lying. So, after a long and very satisfying sex life with my H, I'm left with nothing. WS spends mosts of his time now back East with OP. When here on West Coast, we live as roommates. I refuse to be any other way. WS would jump on me in a minute, but I've closed that door.

Just the thought of having any close touching with WS makes me uneasy and very sad. I grew up sexually with him and to know he is sharing that with another turns me inside out.

I will never recover from this betrayal. I guess it was not as special as I thought it was between us.

So to answer the question, I'm not interested in sex, but I'm sure WS would be ready in a heartbeat.

What's going to be different this time? Your H sounds majorly screwed up.

He's posting on SI now. I guess I should take hope from that. It would be easier if he weren't minimizing and ....well, lying. I feel bludgeoned by his words. By his lack of ownership of his abandonment.

I am not optimistic right now. I know he needs therapy, and get a tiny glimmer of hope that he is starting with a new therapist. But we've been down this road before....it's hard to retain hope.

And it's hard to spend years feeling ....discarded.

Betsy, can I just be frank with you?

Honey, You have spent years. Years trying to make this work. Of course I want you to be happy and it is your decision but all his trolling around really, ummm, makes me wonder.

I guess men think of sex a little differently than we do but still.....

He lied to you about having the ability to make love? Then he offered that gift to someone else? Did I read that right?

Sweetie, my heart breaks for you.

HC

He now claims that he was "just tired" and that, "after 18 months" he let me know "the pipes worked again." (These are his words; I never heard them.) He claims that I repeatedly rebuffed his advances.

If any of this happened, I must have been on another planet, because I was LOOKING for cues. I was wishing that I had a man who, although disabled, still considered MY needs. (I have friends with disabled husbands who have full sex lives; different, but full.) I would have welcomed ANY sexual overture that was perceptible--and been thrilled to find he could have sex.

He did not share it with me because he did not WANT to share it with me. In his more honest moments, he will admit this. Then immediately recant; it is more than he is able to face at the moment.

He did not make advances---he may have thought about sex (maybe even sex with me), but he did not follow through. His attitude now seems to be "well, if it's not worth much to her, fuck it." Only it WAS worth it to me---I truly believed he could not have it. (He does, to his credit, accept that I really believed this; he cannot explain, however, WHY I would believe it so long when his "version" diverges so significantly from mine.)

Thing is, after being rejected for SO long---and having an A and other liaisons tossed in for good measure---how do you EVER get enough sexual self-confidence back to have a relationship with anyone?

I feel so damaged, discarded, broken....and I have this (remorseless) man telling me he has always wanted me when he very clearly has not (and in his more honest moments will admit that he did not). I just don't see how it's possible.

He won't leave, though. He failed to consider, as he was having a relationship with another woman, that it might mean the end of his marriage. His magical thinking got the best of him.

And it's still winning, that magical thinking. I didn't cross his mind during his infidelities or the long periods of dishonesty in between. But when asked why I should invest more in the relationship, he said without hesitation, "Because you love me."

Magical thinking.

[This message edited by BetsyBG at 2:49 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]

We are in R and things are going well except in one area: Sex. When we have it, it's great. I enjoy it, she seems to enjoy it. I have always tried to be a giving and generous lover and FWW says she has no complaints. Yet, she had an affair.

We are in our 40s and I had gotten used to her libido decreasing as we got older. We were down to once or twice a month. Then during her affair her libido spikes to the point that it's almost too much. Then I find out about the affair. See, I thought this was the legendary middle age woman's libido spike. I thought she wanted me. Turns out that what it was was all the hot chat with OM via text msg that got her all ramped up. She denies this but I have problems with that denial.

Her affair consisted of lust-notes and txt msgs and (supposedly) a single physical encounter. The txt msgs continued for two months or so after that one time(?) until I found the lustnotes confirming my suspicion that "something" was going on. This was during the summer of 2008. Obviously, I have some lingering doubts about some of this.

Anyway, as I said during all this time her libido was off and running. After Dday (and HB) until now though we are right back where we were; once, maybe twice a month. She almost never initiates things and when I do it's always like I have to talk her into it. She could put all that energy into the OM, even walking 45 minutes to his house sans underwear to get laid, yet STILL - almost two years later - plays hard to get with me?

IT FUCKING PISSES ME OFF!! SHE went out and had this hot passionate affair while her "teddy bear" cluelessly thought everything was fine. WELL WHAT ABOUT ME? Where's all this passion for me now that OM is gone. Where's the hot talk for me, the enticement, the teasing looks.

Talking about this with her doesn't do much good. I get mad, she gets sad and starts apologizing all over again. I get that she's sorry it happened and I believe her. Except when it come to sex our relationship is very much like it was pre-A. She is more affectionate to me than she has been in years. But overall I still feel like a security blanket, a fall back safety zone. (OM was only interested in a fling)

But the feelings I am feeling are well beyond an unfulfilled sex life. It is the constant rejection, the constant feeling like you're not enough, the constant nagging in the back of your head about how the person you love is not attracted to you.

I find myself dwelling on the idea of having my own affair, hell it seems to have worked well enough for her. I know it's a stupid idea and not something I would ever do, I am a man of my word if nothing else and I took vows, but there is one voice in the back of the hall that keeps bringing the subject up. I hate that guy, I hate that he's a part of my internal arguments, but if I weakened just a bit, he could win.

I read somewhere that one man's answer to bad days in his relationship could alter his commitment.

On good days he was committed to his wife.

On bad days he was committed to his marriage.

On really bad days he was committed to his commitment.

That's my anchor. That's what keeps me from going rogue. But any advice to improve the situation would be dearly appreciated...

We are in our 40s and I had gotten used to her libido decreasing as we got older. We were down to once or twice a month. Then during her affair her libido spikes to the point that it's almost too much. Then I find out about the affair. See, I thought this was the legendary middle age woman's libido spike. I thought she wanted me. Turns out that what it was was all the hot chat with OM via text msg that got her all ramped up. She denies this but I have problems with that denial.

Whoa, are you me? We're on the once or twice a month plan, if I'm lucky, then in November it was almost too much. Also in November my W was emailing, texting and calling her HS boyfriend, but there was no connection between the too, none. Absolutely no connection.

They're no longer in contact, and it's back to once a month, if I'm lucky. But there was no connection.

I don't have an answer. If I bring up our shitty sex life, it improves for a month, and then dwindles back to once a month, if I'm lucky. I'm tired of bringing it up, if I wanted more sex in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, do you think it's different in 2010?

MC might help, but my W has a lot of trouble keeping appointments with her Pysch and her IC. How can we fit another in.

Discussing my needs helps for the short term.

Time might help, maybe my libido will die as I get older. Maybe I'll be in a situation where D is palatable. Maybe DW's libido will kick up. Maybe the horse will sing.

Maybe the horse will sing.

That's about how I feel. There's not much hope after nearly 2 1/2 years. I just turned 40, and refuse to waste any more years in a sexless relationship. It might be different if he was doing something to fix it, but he's not. I always got plenty of affection from him....more cuddling, kissing and hand-holding than most women. But it got to the point where all of that just felt like a LIE. I kept thinking, wow, people probably think we have a hot sex life. What a joke.

Denying a woman sex for long it so hurtful. It tanks your self-esteem. The constant rejection kills me. And it's embarrassing for a woman to talk about how her partner will not have sex with her. Men being refused sex seems more socially acceptable. I hear guys talking about it all the time. You never hear a woman say their man won't have sex with them. It's the old cliché....men want sex, women don't. The people here at SI are the only people who know my boyfriend doesn't put out. It's embarrassing to feel so unattractive. If I said something about this at work, there might be a whole lot of reasons offered as to why he wouldn't have sex with me. But they all come down to one thing, there is something wrong with me. With men being rejected, it's just the "way women are."

Not saying it sucks any less for the guys here. I just wonder if it doesn't affect your ego the way it does mine.

If I said something about this at work, there might be a whole lot of reasons offered as to why he wouldn't have sex with me. But they all come down to one thing, there is something wrong with me.

It doesn't feel any different when you're a guy, Kitty, as I'm sure Lonerider can attest.

It's obviously not the "way women are" or their would be nothing but guys in this thread. Maybe it's something endemic to the WS's thinking.

Frankly, I'm jealous of her. She got all the excitement of the affair, the Drama of her husband fighting for her and of course I "won"... (yipee) And after all that she still has her big ol' teddy bear to snuggle with.

I am TWICE the man OM was, physically, mentally and morally. He was a skinny little pipsqueak with poor spelling, NO grammar, a big nose and a bald spot right in the middle of his mullet. I could ball him up and put him in my hip pocket for a doggy treat and he knows it, the craven coward. And the best she had to offer she gave to him.

It hurts. If I let it funnel down into anger I'd be mad enough to chew anchor chain and spit nails. I don't know what else to do. IC for her was a bust, she went one time. Our MC frankly did the best he could with what he had to work with but that reached a logical conclusion months ago.

I love my wife dearly, more than life itself, but I also need to feel like I'm more than just her best friend. I need to feel desired too.

Funny. The whole reason for her affair was outside validation (I didn't count since I was 'biased'). Now I know what that feels like...

You're right, it is so damn unfair that they give their best to someone else and they still get you...the real prize. Your post made me get teary-eyed. I see now how it doesn't matter if you are a man or woman. I'm truly sorry for the pain you are going through. Somehow knowing you are the good guy and knowing you are the better choice doesn't make it any easier when your partner doesn't want to intimately connect with you. I really wish I had an answer to "why"...that's all I've ever wanted. I've always told him if he would just tell me what the problem is, I would move heaven and earth to help fix it. And I truly would. But nothing. The only thing he has ever said is that it's not me, it's him. That is no consolation at all.

I've always told him if he would just tell me what the problem is, I would move heaven and earth to help fix it.

Yeah, I know that feeling. I got a very similar response. She said that as she gets older a woman's libido drops off. Like she is sooo much older now than in 2008. I'm kind of a big fella, I weigh in around 250 but she says that isn't it. Whatever it is, whether it was something real about him or just her perception of him, I don't have it. Since I don't even know what IT is I have no chance to get it.

Like lonerider said, if I bring it up there will usually be a short term increase in her libido and how often she initiates something, but it doesn't last. If it was just sex, well there's every boy's first girlfriend "Rosey and her 5 sisters" and it's not like there isn't a ton of porn on the nets for inspiration, but I want more than that.

I want someone who wants me to jump her bones so much that she jumps mine. Not every time, but more than once a year. I want at least as much passion and energy as she put into her A. I deserve more, but it's a start. I'd like to be seduced by her once in a while. The only time that's happened was during her A. I loved it then, but knowing what I know now I just feel used.

I honestly don't know what to do and it's breaking my heart. We've been together for almost 24 years now. I love her dearly but the thought of spending another 20 years like this is killing me. I'm not sure I can do it. And at 45 it's not like I have a whole lot of time to decide. Men in my family have always aged well, but time is not on my side as they have also died pretty young too. My wife is physically everything I want in a woman, she is a stone cold Fox even at 46. If the physical was all I wanted I could go buy it, or at least rent it. As it stands I am at an impasse and I don't know what to do about it.

I told him the whole point was that if I was seeing how incredibly sad and unhappy and lonely I was making my partner, I would really do just anything to fix that. If it truly is libido, or things just not working right, why not run your ass to the doctor and find out what's wrong? God knows they make plenty of drugs for libido. I told my WBF that if it was me who "just couldn't" that I would find other ways to connect intimately with him. I would make sure that I was still intimately available and would use whatever was necessary to make sure he didn't feel the way I did.

I remember being much younger and having a conversation with friends about people who leave their partners due to lack of sex. We all said how ridiculous that was, how we would never leave someone over sex. And I feel that my WBF tries like hell to make it seem like it's just sex. It's not just sex. Like you said, Cee, you can get off anywhere, with anyone, if that's what you really wanted to do. I suppose I could too, but it wouldn't fill the ache and the hunger for what we are really after.

I don't know why I am the way I am. I didn't experience anything particularly traumatic to cause it. Everything is in working order and I get just as worked up in bed as anyone. No trouble with O(s). I just can't bring myself to initiate it, and to me if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. It doesn't build up and fester.

A few years ago we had a therapist tell us we were trying to get from A to Z all at once. She suggested we agree to a period of no sex so that I would be able to crawl into bed without feeling the baggage. We agreed to go from A to B by taking turns giving each other massage. This A-B-C approach made me feel very hopeful and I was eager and willing. As I was giving that first massage, he gave me feedback that it was weird and insincere. No other progress happened after that.

I think the porn has played a role. I had a partner in my 20s who liked to get dirty movies to play while we made out. The participants do a lot of pretty repulsive things, and maybe there's nothing wrong with that, but having the images of it play out in your mind may not be a good thing! When I think about WH masturbating to porn, I imagine the filth playing in his head. When we have sex, that's the mind movie I can't shake.

I just thought this perspective is less often shared on this thread and I'd like to hear from "the other side" about how I can maybe take some baby steps to get past my barriers, and maybe some empathy for my position. Being unable to deliver ain't no picnic either. I feel just as powerless to give it as any of you who feel powerless to get it.

I don't miss the incredible loneliness I felt cuddling with him in bed and knowing that was as much as I was ever going to get.

I feel that if I am not worth trying to fix something that is clearly so hurtful, then there is no point in continuing like this.

If I ever find myself on the other side of this, I now know that I will go to great lengths to do what I can to maintain intimacy. It may have been something I took for granted before, but never again.

This is the funniest description I think I've ever read!!!!!

I've had a really bad day, and this made me laugh out loud!!!

If this was a wife who cheated on her husband, every women here knows what it would be about. She would know that emotionally, her husband needed to know that he was the best thing she ever had...and that would be the start of the reconciliation.

If that didn't happen, most men would walk...

The sad thing is: I don't even think it's intentional or spiteful. It's just not the "role" I fill for her at this time. Not sure it ever will be again. I certainly cannot compete with an affair partner with regards to "thrill." Even the great sex we had during the all-too-brief HB period is tainted. At first, I thought it was a GREAT start to repairing us, and a step in the right direction to the M I was wanting all along. Now, I'm starting to feel like I got only got the benefit of whatever leftover passion was still in her head/heart right after D-Day. Not that she was fantasizing about him necessarily (though possible), but that the ability to "let go" is not something she naturally feels with me anymore, but was able to during the really foggy times because the affair mentality wasn't "processed" yet. And those thoughts lead me down the insecurity path of: she had the best sex of her life with him, and due to the fact that I am "known", I can never overcome that. At least not with her. Why am I doing this again?

Fuck me.

(No, seriously.... fuck me. )

j/k, Mods, not trying to pick up anyone here!

I don't think you can generalize about sex. But, sex for women is on a much different level than sex is for most men. I don't think men realize what a personal hit that is, when they have sex with other women. For women it is something we claim..it is ours and ours alone. When it is shared with other women, it is not longer ours alone

You gotta quit generalizing (hopefully you do later. I'm still only up to July 1, lol...) We're all pissed and in the same boat.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=357020

As a BH I understand exactly what goes through a man's mind after infidelity. Not much of it is pretty. I could shock you all with my unguarded, unedited thoughts.

The best way to describe it is to picture an auditorium or quorum hall. Parliament if you like. There is one voice that speaks to the outside world at the front of the room, but within that room are all the other voices that should never be heard like Anger, Fear, Hate, Suspicion and Doubt. There are the voices we all want to hear like Love, Faith, Trust, Compassion, and Eros. This is just a sampling as it seems like many more.

For me the huge hurdle was getting the negative voices off the stage and back to the back of the room and back in their cages where they belong. These voices have their proper place and they had not only gotten out of it they had seized control. Getting them back where they belong was the hardest thing I ever had to do. Even now I can't claim complete victory because they can still make themselves heard over the crowd, sometimes they get loose too, and I find myself struggling to put them away again.

For me, Fear and Anger are the most insidious and the most dangerous. Fear is by far the craftiest of the two. The biggest part of this comes from how men and boys are raised. We are taught from an early age that we must be aggressive warriors in our daily lives. We must be strong, unflinchingly so. Compassion for others comes from strength, ie. "I am secure in the world now, therefore I can help you if you need it" We are taught from an early age that the world will beat us and eat us alive if we are not strong and careful. As we grow to become Men we learn to keep others at a certain distance, even our friends, brothers and sisters and our parents. Even our children are kept a certain distance away though closer than most because for them we must be Guardian and Teacher. Only one is allowed "inside our shield arm" where they can strike us in an unprotected spot.

Women generally have a hard time with this concept. Just as men have a hard time with the concept of giving birth. It is alien thinking. Boys learn from the beginning that, someday, they will be Husbands and Fathers, Guardians and Teachers and Providers. That they must fight to earn this right. Why do you think we still say "He won her heart" or "He swept her off her feet"?

My wife's affair was a crushing blow. A dagger in the back from an unexpected foe. The ONE person I could let my guard down with, the ONE person I could let inside my shield arm. Worse, I had lost a battle I didn't know I was fighting! HE, the OTHER, had won. By his stealth and my weakness he had slipped in and taken what I thought was safely mine, had subverted my one safe person to be my enemy and used her like a weapon against me.

Understand that this is my way of explaining the concepts and feelings that many men share deep down. None of it is politically correct in this modern age but it is still true nonetheless.

Kaitlyn, your husband still fears you. He is afraid to let you back in under his shield. That may change and it may not. One thing that will help you is to understand that most men are hopeless romantics at heart. We wear the armor of Men grudgingly at best.

You must ease his fear.

You must show him that you are not a threat to him anymore and hope that this fear has not jaded him beyond feeling for any woman ever again.

My wife's affair was a crushing blow. A dagger in the back from an unexpected foe. The ONE person I could let my guard down with, the ONE person I could let inside my shield arm. Worse, I had lost a battle I didn't know I was fighting! HE, the OTHER, had won. By his stealth and my weakness he had slipped in and taken what I thought was safely mine, had subverted my one safe person to be my enemy and used her like a weapon against me.

Wow. Change 'wife' to husband and all the pronouns to masculine, and this is exactly how I feel. I even wrote a missive to my WS something to this effect - that I had given him my back and he stabbed me in it at her direction.

Wow. Change 'wife' to husband and all the pronouns to masculine, and this is exactly how I feel. I even wrote a missive to my WS something to this effect - that I had given him my back and he stabbed me in it at her direction.

How true, how true...I'm female but feel exactly the same way.

She almost never initiates things and when I do it's always like I have to talk her into it. She could put all that energy into the OM... yet STILL... plays hard to get with me?

IT FUCKING PISSES ME OFF!! SHE went out and had this hot passionate affair while her "teddy bear" cluelessly thought everything was fine. WELL WHAT ABOUT ME? Where's all this passion for me now that OM is gone. Where's the hot talk for me, the enticement, the teasing looks.

She is more affectionate to me than she has been in years. But overall I still feel like a security blanket, a fall back safety zone.

Frankly, I'm jealous of her. She got all the excitement of the affair, the Drama of her husband fighting for her and of course I "won"... (yipee) And after all that she still has her big ol' teddy bear to snuggle with.

I am TWICE the man OM was, physically, mentally and morally...

And the best she had to offer she gave to him.

I love my wife dearly, more than life itself, but I also need to feel like I'm more than just her best friend. I need to feel desired too.

Funny. The whole reason for her affair was outside validation (I didn't count since I was 'biased'). Now I know what that feels like...

Whatever it is, whether it was something real about him or just her perception of him, I don't have it. Since I don't even know what IT is I have no chance to get it.

I want someone who wants me to jump her bones so much that she jumps mine. Not every time, but more than once a year. I want at least as much passion and energy as she put into her A. I deserve more, but it's a start. I'd like to be seduced by her once in a while. The only time that's happened was during her A. I loved it then, but knowing what I know now I just feel used.

I honestly don't know what to do and it's breaking my heart. We've been together for almost 24 years now. I love her dearly but the thought of spending another 20 years like this is killing me. I'm not sure I can do it.

GET
OUT
OF
MY HEAD!!!!

GET
OUT
OF
MY HEAD!!!!!

GeauxTigers that made me laugh so hard!

Thanx for the grins. I really could use them today.

On a more serious note- while WH & I were seperated last month all he did was talk about how he wanted to ravage me. He came "home" the other night. Needless to say I am still waiting...
Yes, I resent what the OP got. Even though the A is just a "delusion of granduer" I'm sure that the ow never heard "I'm too tired" or anything else rejecting...

I am passing this along, in case it can help one single person. After my BF and I broke up, I found a book which I now refer to as "The (WBF's name) Handbook." It has given me so much insight and answered so many questions for me, and I truly believe that I have found the reason that we did not have sex. If your spouse was ever in an enmeshed relationship with a parent, I implore you to get and read "When He's Married to Mom" by Kenneth Adams. My WBF is somewhat of a momma's boy, and this book is a real eye-opener for just how damaging that kind of a relationship can be for a child, and into adulthood for sure. One of the telltale signs of an enmeshed relationship with your parent is withholding sex. I've since read other books related to the topic, and it can go either way...men or women. The psyche is truly an amazing thing.

I will stop rambling, unless someone wants more information. Like I said, I am hoping someone here can find this useful. I really believe that if I had found this book six months ago, I would be on my way to a happy future with my xBF (There. I said it.)

I finally got tired of waiting for my "special day" to be planned with a "special trip" by H and told him I thought we should have a romantic evening at home to get things moving in our R. He was all for it. So I planned a menu for our dinner, etc. He didn't do anything - no flowers, no anything. Then things got in the way ended up not getting to dinner until 10pm after working on our home all day. At that point I said forget it.

Our MC wonders why we are bothering to come to MC because every time it is the same discussion. I am waiting for him to make a "grand gesture" by planning a special time for us to reconnect sexually and he says he's working on it. It has been over 2 years since Dday so over 2 years since we have had sex. I say it better damn well be a trip of a lifetime since it has taken 2 years to plan!

Granted a lot of things have been happening in our life but it just pisses me off that he can't seem to put our M at the top of the heap. He is loving and playful...holds my hand, gives me a peck on the lips, grabs a boob every now and then (which btw, kind of makes me feel even worse).

I have yet to see the "I want you so bad and can't believe I ever doubted it" gesture I need him to make in order to look at our first time having sex after his A as a beginning for us and not just a rug sweep gesture.

I'm tired of being the one who has to bring it up all the time. I tried so hard at the beginning, but unbeknown to me he was still in the A, so yeah, I have not initiated, except for trying to plan that one romantic evening that became a disaster.

Sorry for the vent..just feeling low...when I feel like this all I can hear in my head is the recorded conversation I heard of him telling MOW that he craved her.

"We don't ever stop loving someone. We simply learn to live without them."

"We don't ever stop loving someone. We simply learn to live without them."

You invited a third person into a 2-way agreement to both of your mutual pleasure, "breaking the seal" as you put it. What did you think would happen? You got to get some strange, now you are angry that he did the same thing? Are you angry that he was with another woman or angry that you weren't invited since it's something you did as a "couple"?

Understand I'm not trying to be judgmental of your chosen lifestyle, it's not one I would engage in but you're not me. But to understand your question I need to see it from your point of view.

In all honesty, I'm too jealous by far to share my spouse. By extension that means I don't ask her to share me since that would seem unfair to me.

So what, exactly, bothers you about his ONSs?

While I understand your point, I think you are approaching SickOfitAll27's dilemma from a somewhat judgemental perspective.

Sickofitall and her H were both okay with the third man being involved in their "mutal pleasure", but she was not okay with his ONS. Having a threesome (I don't know if that is what it technically was, but I will just use that term anyway), if both parties are okay with it, is NOT infidelity. But if one spouse does something with another person out of the marital bed, and the other did not approve it and is not okay with it, than that is infidelity.

Not trying to be rude, but I don't think your response is approaching infidelity as much as you are wondering why people would do something you yourself wouldn't do. Infidelity is about one partner being upset about another spouse's indiscretions, not about placing judgement on the before hand agreed upon sexual relationship between two consenting adults in a monogamous relationship.

"We don't ever stop loving someone. We simply learn to live without them."

But that begs the question, Would you have been okay with him having other women if it HAD been something you did as a couple? Because from your previous post it sounds like even if it was open and with both of you, you would have felt hurt...

Please understand that while I do not share your lifestyle for my own reasons, I would never condemn someone for their lifestyle. I agree with Dr. Ruth, whatever two (or more) people find agreeable and pleasant is fair game...

I also wonder if I am just too eager now. If I appear pathetic, needing reassurance all the time and catering to him. I feel like I have to play games with my own husband and I have no desire to do so...it is driving me crazy!

Personally, I'm just about done asking since I get ignored most of the time when I do...

It derives from self worth.

This is hard even without infodelity but I know my wife would do anything to have sex with OM and I am not worth that effort.

Alas as I have worked on myself and look better she has attempted to come on to me here and their but has been insanely jealous most of all.

My twisted WW thinking goes like this in the end. My H is desirable so I will bitch snoop crack down on him and make sure he never can have sex with anyone else.

It's ironic because that was and is not my goal. I am married and unlike my WW that means something.

It's ironic in a way becaus eit is her being like taht and me finaly thinking "why the hell should I be attracted to her? She does nothing to make me happy or show desire for me."

It's just now getting to the point I have no desire for sex with my WW.

It sucks because no basically I am turning off a core part of my desires as I will not cheat and will never have the sex i want with WW.

This is at this point on her.

I require honey not vinegar.

And a question all of us on thsi threa dshould ask oursleves:

"why do we even want to have sex with our partner?"

Then she has an A, and the sex goes through the roof, HB style. This lasts till NC is in place and she goes back to "too tired" again. Cuddles, kissing, holding each other are fine, just no sexual intimacy. Once a month again.

Guess it was the thrill of doing something wrong that got her all excited. Shame I don't seem to do it for her. She is the only one I have ever been with or have wanted to be with. Never even so much as held hands with another woman, ever.

Tell me again why I feel so rejected and worthless.