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User Topic: West With the Night Book Group
NewAttitude
Member
Member # 1030
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, August 17th (Tuesday)

We need to decide if we are all in favor of reading by section and discussing or if we are waiting until we have all read the entire book.

Since the book is portioned out already I'm in favor of reading by section.

Also, how long will we give for everyone to read each section?


Discuss.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

Posts: 58732 | Registered: Jan 2003
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

I like the idea of reading by section and discussing as we go.
It gives readers 'points to ponder' as they continue with the story.

I'm a fast reader (reading on average 3-4 books per week), so I'm probably not the best one to judge time, lol.

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 12:31 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)]


Me - 42
SorryInSac (WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Stick a fork in me...

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6518 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
waiting2see
Member
Member # 13767
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

I just ordered the book. It will take some people a few days to get a hold of a copy?

I agree it's a good idea to read a section at a time.

If it's averaging 60 pages per section, is a week to read a section reasonable? I realize some people may be more pressed for reading time than others.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


Posts: 1932 | Registered: Feb 2007
NewAttitude
Member
Member # 1030
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

I am absolutely deferring the reading time to others here.
I will do whatever is decided.

I'm a freak reader and read one to two books a day.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

Posts: 58732 | Registered: Jan 2003
summerbaby
Member
Member # 28879
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

I vote for sections. I'm not the best to ask for reading times either. I'd think a week would be long enough. But perfectly fine with longer, if need be. Can everyone have the book by this weekend?


"Find out who you are, and do it on purpose.- Dolly Parton

Posts: 1582 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Oklahoma
punky
Member
Member # 12233
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

I vote for sections. I think getting the book by the weekend is reasonable. Then maybe we could give a week for each section--if they are approximately the same length. That way if people need a bit more time to get the book, they'll still have some cushion.


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
NewAttitude
Member
Member # 1030
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

Section One is approximately 57 pages.

Two is about 74.

Three is about 44.

Four is 107.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

Posts: 58732 | Registered: Jan 2003
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

Book by this weekend and one week reading time per section sounds great to me!


Me - 42
SorryInSac (WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Stick a fork in me...

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6518 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
waiting2see
Member
Member # 13767
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

I agree to book by this weekend and one week per section.

So specifically, we'll assume everyone has the book and has begun reading by Monday, the 23rd? and then begin discussing that section the following Monday?

The next section, the Monday after that? Does that work or are weekend days better for discussion periods?


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


Posts: 1932 | Registered: Feb 2007
hope4tomorrow
Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

Sounds good to me.


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

Posts: 346 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
summerbaby
Member
Member # 28879
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

Sounds like a plan to me. I'm excited.


"Find out who you are, and do it on purpose.- Dolly Parton

Posts: 1582 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Oklahoma
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

I hate being the odd man out, but I'm getting used to it. I run a number of book clubs and have been a member of others for many, many years. This book might work in sections, but I think for most books, a "section" doesn't have enough to discuss. And I can see that for those in the group who read more, the need to discuss a further chapter can be great. And then we have to think about spoilers. Again, this book might work, but I'm not sure it is a good plan for most books.

Posts: 5629 | Registered: Jul 2002
NewAttitude
Member
Member # 1030
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

I agree for most books it will not work and we will have to be flexible and adjust accordingly.

Since this one comes prepackaged into separate 'books' already it may make it easier.

But, as I stated I've never done this before so I'm open for whatever.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

Posts: 58732 | Registered: Jan 2003
booger bear
Member
Member # 26584
Content  Posted: 5:25 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

yeah ... ok so yes sections on a weekly basis are good for me ... and I should have the book by this weekend ...


I am fiercely independent and I won’t apologize for it. I'd rather be single than settled.

Posts: 18810 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: OK - Hot as hell here !!!!!!
really trying
Member
Member # 5311
Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

okay


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


Posts: 10397 | Registered: Sep 2004 | From: California
woundedby2
Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

I'm late to the party, but I guess I have a book to find.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7823 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
mellowmood
Member
Member # 2097
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)

Got mine ordered. Can hardly wait to get it.

Posts: 2755 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: oceanside, calif.
punky
Member
Member # 12233
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, August 18th (Wednesday)

Got mine yesterday. It will be the first BOOK I've read since getting my Kindle...


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
mellowmood
Member
Member # 2097
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, August 18th (Wednesday)

OMG, I need to get a kindle.

With the amount of books I read, I'm sure it would pay for itself in a couple of months.

TJ over.


Posts: 2755 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: oceanside, calif.
howcouldhe1
Member
Member # 13210
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, August 19th (Thursday)

Still waiting for mine but it's on its way. Doing it in sections sounds fine to me for this book. That way by the end of the book we'll have had four discussions, ironed out any difficulties and be ready to go for the next book.


Me BS 54 FWH (BT) 52 M 22 years D Day 4/11/06 Over a year of trickle truths. March 08. D Day 2. Online porn and SA. Just when I thought we'd be ok, July 19 08. BT had accident. Severe brain damage, in persistent vegetative state. I lost him anyway.

Posts: 5488 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Kent UK
nikki35
New Member
Member # 29212
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, August 20th (Friday)

I am voting for sections..

Posts: 33 | Registered: Aug 2010
waiting2see
Member
Member # 13767
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, August 21st (Saturday)

My book still isn't here. I'm annoyed. I ordered it from a private seller b/c it was half the price as directly from Amazon but the shipping is slower.

I hope I get it Monday so I can start reading the first section.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


Posts: 1932 | Registered: Feb 2007
mellowmood
Member
Member # 2097
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, August 21st (Saturday)

Me too waiting. Did the same thing, and Amazon is slow with this one. Usually it is only a day or 3.

Posts: 2755 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: oceanside, calif.
nikki35
New Member
Member # 29212
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, August 21st (Saturday)

still waiting for book

Posts: 33 | Registered: Aug 2010
manAscending
Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 11:18 PM, August 21st (Saturday)

I've requested my copy via inter-library loan. Hope it gets here soon.

Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
really trying
Member
Member # 5311
Default  Posted: 12:57 AM, August 22nd (Sunday)

I have to get mine as well. I wanted to remind everyone that if you purchase from amazon from SI, SI get's a %.

Right NA? Now why is my ? so small????????


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


Posts: 10397 | Registered: Sep 2004 | From: California
NewAttitude
Member
Member # 1030
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, August 22nd (Sunday)

Do we need to put off starting the book for a couple days?
I have no problem with that since there are quite a few who are still waiting.

Thoughts?


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

Posts: 58732 | Registered: Jan 2003
punky
Member
Member # 12233
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, August 22nd (Sunday)

I vote yes. But I do have mine.


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
nikki35
New Member
Member # 29212
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, August 22nd (Sunday)

I vote yes

Posts: 33 | Registered: Aug 2010
summerbaby
Member
Member # 28879
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, August 22nd (Sunday)

I don't get mine til tomorrow. But we have a week to read 57 pages. Even if I didn't get mine til next wknd, I would have time before Monday to get it read. I vote stay on same time schedule.


"Find out who you are, and do it on purpose.- Dolly Parton

Posts: 1582 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Oklahoma
hope4tomorrow
Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, August 23rd (Monday)

I say wait since some don't have theirs yet. I got mine yesterday from the library.


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

Posts: 346 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, August 23rd (Monday)

I'm fine with waiting or pushing ahead.

The folks that havent received their books yet would be the best judge of whether they can 'catch up' (ie read the first section) by the end of the week.

I say let them have the final say!


Me - 42
SorryInSac (WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Stick a fork in me...

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6518 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
howcouldhe1
Member
Member # 13210
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, August 23rd (Monday)

I haven't got mine yet. <pouts> But I am a quick reader, so as long as it gets here before the weekend I should be able to catch up.

I checked the delivery dates and it said between 21st Aug and 3 September!! I think it's being delivered by tortoise.


Me BS 54 FWH (BT) 52 M 22 years D Day 4/11/06 Over a year of trickle truths. March 08. D Day 2. Online porn and SA. Just when I thought we'd be ok, July 19 08. BT had accident. Severe brain damage, in persistent vegetative state. I lost him anyway.

Posts: 5488 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Kent UK
waiting2see
Member
Member # 13767
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, August 23rd (Monday)

I got mine today. I can definitely be ready by Mon but if others haven't received theirs we should accomodate them


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


Posts: 1932 | Registered: Feb 2007
really trying
Member
Member # 5311
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, August 23rd (Monday)

Darn, I don't have mine yet. If I get it by Wednesday I'll be okay with Monday discussion.

It's Monday, right?


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


Posts: 10397 | Registered: Sep 2004 | From: California
NewAttitude
Member
Member # 1030
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, August 24th (Tuesday)

Yes, it was supposed to be Monday.

Maybe Wed. we can do a last check and see who is still waiting for their book and see if we are waiting or not?


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

Posts: 58732 | Registered: Jan 2003
waiting2see
Member
Member # 13767
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, August 24th (Tuesday)

That sounds good.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


Posts: 1932 | Registered: Feb 2007
howcouldhe1
Member
Member # 13210
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, August 24th (Tuesday)

Hurray, it's arrived.


Me BS 54 FWH (BT) 52 M 22 years D Day 4/11/06 Over a year of trickle truths. March 08. D Day 2. Online porn and SA. Just when I thought we'd be ok, July 19 08. BT had accident. Severe brain damage, in persistent vegetative state. I lost him anyway.

Posts: 5488 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Kent UK
mellowmood
Member
Member # 2097
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, August 24th (Tuesday)

I got mine today, a little worse for wear. But it is here!!!!!!

This morning I looked on Amazon where they will show you parts of the book. Read from page 1 to 16 and then it jumped to page 60. Was thinking that people who don't have the book could do that, but no go.


Posts: 2755 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: oceanside, calif.
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, August 24th (Tuesday)

Just a suggestion for the future--maybe we should give our readers 2 weeks to a month after we decide on a book, so we all have a chance to get hold of it. I know IRL, this has been a problem.

Posts: 5629 | Registered: Jul 2002
mellowmood
Member
Member # 2097
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, August 24th (Tuesday)

Great idea Skye - maybe we can pick a book towards the end of this one. I was stressing about getting the book in time.

Posts: 2755 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: oceanside, calif.
NewAttitude
Member
Member # 1030
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, August 25th (Wednesday)

Okay, who has it, who doesn't, and are we good to go or not?


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

Posts: 58732 | Registered: Jan 2003
mellowmood
Member
Member # 2097
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, August 25th (Wednesday)

I have it.

Posts: 2755 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: oceanside, calif.
woundedby2
Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, August 25th (Wednesday)

I have a copy and have started reading.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7823 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, August 25th (Wednesday)

I have mine too!


Me - 42
SorryInSac (WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Stick a fork in me...

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6518 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
waiting2see
Member
Member # 13767
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, August 25th (Wednesday)

I have mine too.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


Posts: 1932 | Registered: Feb 2007
really trying
Member
Member # 5311
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, August 25th (Wednesday)

go ahead, go ahead, I'll be late to the party but will catch up.


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


Posts: 10397 | Registered: Sep 2004 | From: California
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, August 25th (Wednesday)

Got mine tonight.

Posts: 5629 | Registered: Jul 2002
punky
Member
Member # 12233
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, August 25th (Wednesday)

I have mine.


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
summerbaby
Member
Member # 28879
Default  Posted: 11:50 PM, August 25th (Wednesday)

I have my copy.


"Find out who you are, and do it on purpose.- Dolly Parton

Posts: 1582 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Oklahoma
summerbaby
Member
Member # 28879
Default  Posted: 11:59 PM, August 25th (Wednesday)

Maybe after we're half way thru this book we can start a seperate thread to vote on our next book. That way we can have our next book ordered before we finish with this one.


"Find out who you are, and do it on purpose.- Dolly Parton

Posts: 1582 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Oklahoma
hope4tomorrow
Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, August 26th (Thursday)

Sounds good.

I have mine!


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

Posts: 346 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
howcouldhe1
Member
Member # 13210
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, August 26th (Thursday)

I have mine. Going to start reading in a while.


Me BS 54 FWH (BT) 52 M 22 years D Day 4/11/06 Over a year of trickle truths. March 08. D Day 2. Online porn and SA. Just when I thought we'd be ok, July 19 08. BT had accident. Severe brain damage, in persistent vegetative state. I lost him anyway.

Posts: 5488 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Kent UK
manAscending
Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, August 26th (Thursday)

I'm still waiting on my copy, but if you go ahead and start, I'll catch up with the reading.

Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
really trying
Member
Member # 5311
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, August 26th (Thursday)

I got mine! and library cards to the county and city libraries.


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


Posts: 10397 | Registered: Sep 2004 | From: California
ladyvorkosigan
Member
Member # 8283
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, August 27th (Friday)

Okay, got mine today.


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls he’d known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14226 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
manAscending
Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, August 27th (Friday)

Me, too. I'm good to go.

Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
mellowmood
Member
Member # 2097
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, August 27th (Friday)

So maybe the question is who doesn't have theirs?

Posts: 2755 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: oceanside, calif.
imscared_k
Member
Member # 14061
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, August 28th (Saturday)

I don't have mine, but my library has it on CD. I plan on picking it up tonight.

Posts: 1059 | Registered: Mar 2007
waiting2see
Member
Member # 13767
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, August 28th (Saturday)

I've finished the section (love the book btw). Will we be discussing Monday now that (it seems) most people have the book?


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


Posts: 1932 | Registered: Feb 2007
really trying
Member
Member # 5311
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, August 30th (Monday)

are we still on for discussion today/tonight and if we are, what time zone might that be? I don't want to miss it, my first book club and all.


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


Posts: 10397 | Registered: Sep 2004 | From: California
punky
Member
Member # 12233
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, August 30th (Monday)

I'm ready if you guys are...


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
mellowmood
Member
Member # 2097
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, August 30th (Monday)

I'm ready too. Or ready tomorrow, or whenever. I like the book oddly enough (not what I usually read) and am continuing it.

Posts: 2755 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: oceanside, calif.
waiting2see
Member
Member # 13767
Default  Posted: 7:41 PM, August 30th (Monday)

Okay, I'll start: First of all I think the book is so easy to get into b/c she is so incredibly descriptive.

Clearly she is a woman working and living in a man's world in terms of both her profession and those venturing into Africa at the time. But, at least in the first section, she is completely accepted.

You don't get the impression that anyone is like "who is this woman flying this plane all over Africa."

So do you think (and maybe this will become more clear over time) it's because it's a sort of solitary, adventure-driven existence out there and if someone flies you in a tank of oxygen you don't ask any questions?

Or maybe, she's proven herself thru reputation and time?

Or is there some hint--by accent, maybe? or other way- that she was raised there and that gives her some inherent credibility?

Thoughts?

Also, I think, thru her writing, it's so easy to imagine her--both sort of "tom-boyish(for lack of a better word)" and rugged and yet very sophisticated, wry, witty, and womanly.

[This message edited by waiting2see at 7:42 PM, August 30th (Monday)]


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


Posts: 1932 | Registered: Feb 2007
NewAttitude
Member
Member # 1030
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, August 30th (Monday)

Argh!
Sorry guys, first day of school for my son and he already has homework! And what's worse is that they sent home stuff for me to do as well.
Apparently I have to write an essay about my son.

Discuss and I'll try to get in here.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

Posts: 58732 | Registered: Jan 2003
really trying
Member
Member # 5311
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, August 30th (Monday)

yeah, she hasn't gone into how she got her respect/creditabilty, just another venture she has like the many other things she has done. I'm curious to hear what trubulations she had to be a respected women pilot, if any.

I get the feeling that with the kind of service she does, that they'll take the help.

I was pleased that the book took off pretty quick, I'm not much for pages of description before I can relate it to what happening.

[This message edited by really trying at 8:37 PM, August 30th (Monday)]


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


Posts: 10397 | Registered: Sep 2004 | From: California
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, August 30th (Monday)

I've only read the first section as instructed. I'm a very good listener. I am expecting we will find out how she got to be so accepted. I did question that as I was reading.

I found the story about getting the oxygen to the patient, probably way later than he needed it, interesting. It reminds us of how primitive things were back then.

As I was reading about her flying really in the dark, I was reminded of John Kennedy, Jr.'s flying accident It was assumed one reason he lost control the plane was there were no lights for him to see because of the fog. I was imagining how difficult fying with no lights below must be. I felt the description of that made it very scary and very real.


Posts: 5629 | Registered: Jul 2002
woundedby2
Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 8:43 PM, August 30th (Monday)

I also was fascinated by her description of flying in the dead of night. Pitch black, you would have to put complete trust in your instruments and in your own skills as a pilot.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7823 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
punky
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Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, August 30th (Monday)

I enjoyed the initial descriptive passages so much...especially where she showed her sense of humor. The part about the big and impressive signpost showing the way to Cairo was so well set-up.

I also loved her description of the soul of Africa and its simplicity of wisdom compared to the "tinker's mind of civilization." I've never been one to be "intrigued" about Africa; have never had an urge whatsoever to visit or go on safari. After reading this book, I might feel differently!

My husband is a pilot and several things that I have read so far have so touched me. I always think of the "glamour" of what he does and tend to disregard the negatives--like the loneliness she describes. Although he doesn't fly alone, I can see him feeling this way. Especially loved the way she described how a flight can be "no distance" or "from where you are to the end of the earth" depending on the "things that live in your mind while you swing suspended between the earth and the silent sky." I can imagine that my H has had a lot to think about up there--things that have brought me here to this site.

I was kind of surprised by her reaction to the dying man in Nungwe. I can understand, sure; but was a little surprised that she ran out. I guess it just goes to show that we can't be 100% strong in every area of life.

From what I read, loved Woody. He seems to be a character. Also loved her description of the words that come out of a pilot's mouth--I can tell you that is TRUE. I've hung around pilots for over 20 years now and she pegged that one. Not much has changed since 1935!

Also loved the zebra story--I could just see that little guy tearing after her dad and his beer in my imagination...

One thing that I'd like to hear from all of you about is this: Do you feel she is racist in any way? For the most part, I felt she is very respectful of the African race and its many permutations. But there was one part where she was wondering what Africa would be like if the physical aspects of a particular race of men were coupled with the 'cunning' of their 'white brethren'. At first she said 'intelligence', then changed it to 'cunning'--just want to know what you guys thought about that.

FYI--this is really interesting. My H went to flight training with either Beryl's nephew or great-nephew. My H says Beryl is the real deal--forget Amelia Earhart!

[This message edited by punky at 8:51 PM, August 30th (Monday)]


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
punky
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Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, August 30th (Monday)

I haven't read ahead, but think she is so accepted because she is so NECESSARY and because she is a 'native', as well.


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
woundedby2
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Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, August 30th (Monday)

Punky, she speaks of having something akin to a phobia about disease. She describes it as "an unaccountable physical repulsion from persons who are sick..."

I think this would explain her running out, and it also explained to me how she was able to provide such vivid and graphic descriptive paragraphs about the sick man and his hut. Her horrific descriptions led me to google Blackwater.

Ugh. What a horrible way to die.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7823 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
waiting2see
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Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, August 30th (Monday)

Really interesting question about whether or not she seems racist. Because I came away with the overall impression that she wasn't.

In fact, I thought her respect for the native people of Africa was really endearing. We've seen throughout history that the white "landed" people in Africa can be quite racist. And you have to consider how much racisim there would have been in the U.S. and likely Britain at the time.

But now that you mention that she used the word "intelligence" b/f she switched to "cunning" it raises a question.

But she consciously corrects herself and makes the change in wording so maybe she "caught" herself making value-judgments she didn't really want to make. She's clearly more self-aware in that regard that many would have been.

I don't know if I'd say "racist." Maybe she is a bit paternalistic toward the Africans--or maternalistic, as the case may be.

Also, wanted to agree with the descriptions of flying at night and how it can be a quick flight or a forever flight depending upon your state of mind--I guess that's a lesson we ultimately learn about every life experience.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


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punky
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Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, August 30th (Monday)

But she consciously corrects herself and makes the change in wording so maybe she "caught" herself making value-judgments she didn't really want to make. She's clearly more self-aware in that regard that many would have been.

I like that. I like to think that is what happened.


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
punky
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Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, August 30th (Monday)

WB2--I almost googled Blackwater. Maybe I have a phobia about seeing gross pictures on the internet...

Even with her phobia, she is probably stronger than I am about stuff like that.


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
waiting2see
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Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, August 30th (Monday)

I googled Blackwater too.

I also felt like she left the hut b/c he had sort of slipped back into delirium and so he wasn't really "present" at that point.

It reminds me of an argument I had with a family member about whether visiting with a family member who has dementia and doesn't even know who you are is worthwhile to the person you are visiting.

I think as long as your presence is soothing to the person or comforting for the moment it is absolutely a worthwhile visit. But, of course, she was also preoccupied with finding Woody. I think she indicated that she felt her time was better spent looking for a man that might still be alive rather than sitting with the one who had no chance.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


Posts: 1932 | Registered: Feb 2007
woundedby2
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Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, August 30th (Monday)

she felt her time was better spent looking for a man that might still be alive rather than sitting with the one who had no chance.

Yes, this too. I wonder if she actually felt the anxiety of a panic attack when she was standing looking down at the sick man. Then the thought of Woody would have given her the absolute impetus to run from the hut.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7823 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
really trying
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Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, August 30th (Monday)

My time is up for tonight.

I liked hearing others thoughts. Can't wait until next time.


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


Posts: 10397 | Registered: Sep 2004 | From: California
punky
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Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, August 30th (Monday)

Nighty night.

Hoping we'll get more comments throughout the week.


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
Skye
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Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, August 31st (Tuesday)

As far as her being a racist is concerned, I think by today's standards, she would be considered a racist, but not by the standards of the day.

I had to chuckle when I read her statement as she was flying over a wild herd:

You know then what you had always been told--that the world once lived and grew without adding machiens nd newsprint and brick-walled streets and the tyranny of clocks.

Imagine what she would think of the world today!

I also love the way she writes. I love how she uses description and words. In one place she talked about silence.

There is the silence of emptiness, the silence of fear, the silence of doubt. There is a certain silence that can emanate from a lifeless object as from a chair lately used, or from a piano with old dust upon its keys, or from anything that has answered to the need of a man, for pleasure or for work. This kind of silence can speak. Its voice can be melancholy, but it not always so; for the chair may have been left by a laughing child or the last notes of the piano may have been raucous and gay.

I thought that was so beautiful. How many times have I tried to express myself and just plain sound silly. What a gift she has.


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punky
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Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, August 31st (Tuesday)

Skye--I thought the same thing. She WOULD be shocked by today's world.

And you are right about her way with words, that bit of the qualities of silence was great.


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
NewAttitude
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Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, August 31st (Tuesday)

One thing I learned quickly about this book is that I would be forced to put aside any preconceived notions I had about what it would be like.

I read very fast but this book almost forces me to slow down to digest things.
It's like a gourmet meal and I find myself taking my time and almost slathering over the wordiness and descriptions.

I found myself touched and amused by the 'windsock' that was set up for her only the end was sewn shut so it couldn't blow.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

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howcouldhe1
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Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, August 31st (Tuesday)

I must admit I wasn't really looking forward to reading this, but I'm really enjoying it. So much so that I'm well into the second section and having to stop myself from talking about it!!

I think she has a very dry and understated sense of humour and I like that. She doesn't seem to intentionally set out to make you laugh but you do anyway.

One thing I found very sad though; the dying man, Bergner, seemed to place such importance on talking about his acquaintance Carl Hastings, to the extent that she told a small lie about him getting married, but when she actually met him years later, he had no recollection of Bergner at all. Very sad.


Me BS 54 FWH (BT) 52 M 22 years D Day 4/11/06 Over a year of trickle truths. March 08. D Day 2. Online porn and SA. Just when I thought we'd be ok, July 19 08. BT had accident. Severe brain damage, in persistent vegetative state. I lost him anyway.

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mellowmood
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Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, August 31st (Tuesday)

That struck me too howcouldhe.

While visiting a dying man in a remote african outpost, she describes the conversation. "His voice was soft and controlled, and very tired. 'It's been four years since I left Nairobi, and there haven't been many letters.' He ran the tip of his tongue over his lips and attempted a smile. 'People forget,' he added. 'It's easy for a whole group of people to forget just one, but if you're very long in a place like this you remember everybody you ever met. You even worry about people you never liked; you get nostalgic about your enemies. It's all something to think about and it all helps.'"

When my best friend was dying of cancer and had been shut in for months and away from work, she longed to hear about people she had known, even those who she didn't like.

And it was especially sad that the man in question didn't even remember Bergner.


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punky
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Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, August 31st (Tuesday)

I'm finding myself slowing down with this book, too.


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
ladyvorkosigan
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Default  Posted: 7:16 AM, September 1st (Wednesday)

Well, she seems to be something of an "honorary man," which was really the first man-approved feminist trope. The world was emerging from the suffragette movement, so coping with that, and if you think about a number of rather outstanding women both IRL and say Hollywood (Bette Davis, Greta Garbo, for examples), they fit into the honorary man category. Men could feel comfortable with these "singular" women because they perceived them as different and not like the rest of them.

As to how she got that way...she seems to have been raised entirely by men, allowed the liberties only usually allowed to boys as a child, so really it'd be her base assumption that there was no other way in which she should be treated, plus the sense that the white people had that things were just Different In Africa. The Africans themselves would probably treat her as they saw the white men treating her, probably having a sense that White People Are Strange, So What Can You Do?

One thing that's interesting about Honorary Men is that they don't play well with other women ("I just get along with guys so much better than with other women!") and guard their place rather jealously, so I'll be interested to see if relationships with other women exist, are elided, what sorts of women she can deal with, etc.

[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 8:25 AM, September 1st (Wednesday)]


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls he’d known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

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Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, September 1st (Wednesday)

That is a very salient point, LadyV.
She is much more 'man' than woman in many ways.
I think this plays out in her relationships and how many times she was married, etc.
I'm imagining that she must have mowed down a lot of men in her time.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

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Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, September 1st (Wednesday)

I noticed that too. There are practically no women even mentioned. She says nothing about her mother so far. None of the men seem to have wives, even the Africans.


Posts: 2755 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: oceanside, calif.
ladyvorkosigan
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Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, September 1st (Wednesday)

Yes, I've noticed that. She is the only woman she sees, whether she's erasing them or just not noticing them or considering their role (which would be typical for a man of her station).

Here is an apt quote from Amelia Peabody, another honorary man, albeit a fictional one:

"If you take a man by surprise, and behave with sufficient arrogance, he will generally do what you ask."

[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 1:57 PM, September 1st (Wednesday)]


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls he’d known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

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punky
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Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, September 1st (Wednesday)

Peabody!!


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

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NewAttitude
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Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, September 2nd (Thursday)

I'm actually going back and rereading the first part with the knowledge of what you all have posted to see what I glean differently.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

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Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, September 2nd (Thursday)

Well, I finally found one place where she mentioned a neighbor's wife............

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Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, September 5th (Sunday)

Are we on for discussion tomorrow or do we want to put it off until Tuesday since it's a holiday?


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

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dreamlife
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Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, September 5th (Sunday)

Don't mean to interrupt here, but I just adore this book's title!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

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hope4tomorrow
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Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, September 5th (Sunday)

I'm very sorry that I haven't been participating. Just really busy with back to school things. I promise to get all caught up as soon as I can. I won't be home tomorrow at all. We're going to Disneyland! So later this week I will be able to participate a little more.


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

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waiting2see
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Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, September 5th (Sunday)

I've read thru the second section so I am ready to discuss whenever.

I really like this book. It's hard not to keep reading ahead.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


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mellowmood
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Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, September 6th (Monday)

Me too, waitingtosee. It's a wonderful book.

I'm a little ahead, but don't want to hurry anyone because the book is so worth savoring.

We really picked a winner for our first book, and it just keeps getting better and better.


Posts: 2755 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: oceanside, calif.
waiting2see
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Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, September 6th (Monday)

Okay, I have a million things to say about this section of the book but I'll start with this:

1. The war reference is to WWI and the fighting btwn. the Germans and British in E. Africa? Right? So when Arab Maina is killed, it is in Africa? Would natives have been forced to fight or did he, as she characterized it, feel a loyalty to the British?

2. The imagery she provides is so incredible. I loved how she wrote in first-person (so to speak) from the perspective of the horse, Camciscan. I mean she spoke this horse's mind so well. It was wonderful.

3. Then she attends the birth of Coquette's foal, taking charge and basically handling the actual birth. And, at the time, she is only 15.

Of course, all of this is in the context of a girl who runs barefoot thru Africa with a spear chasing warthogs.

And, not to mention, she survives being attacked by a lion. Though, the picture of his living out his days in a cage was so sad. They had tried to tame him and couldn't (b/c he's a lion) but they ruined him for his "wild" friends so he couldn't return. Then when he does what comes naturally to him, he ends up in a cage b/c he can't go back to the wild. Sad.

I also wonder about how all of this "civilization" being thrust upon the natives strikes her. It seems she thinks it's all a good thing. She seems to believe in her father's and the other British settlers' settling of the land--tearing down the trees, milling and such. She doesn't really seem to question the merit of all of this.

Also, I know we talked a lot about the other women missing in the book. But she does speak of Delamere's wife and she speaks favorably of her, saying she cared for her sort of as a mother since she didn't have her own. But, again, it seems like she doesn't view her as quite equal: she faced her tasks "with perhaps less will than patience, less aptitude than loyalty to her husband." She seems to paint a very "behind every successful man, there is a woman" perspective. But you don't get the sense she will ever be happy standing behind a man.

Another example of this is when the young African girl compares their bodies but notes that Beryl is going hunting and the girl never would.

Beryl really seems to see herself as apart from other women--not just the natives but also the British woman.

Btw, do we ever find out what happend to her mother? She comes to Africa with her father around age 4, right?


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


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waiting2see
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Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, September 6th (Monday)

Ok, I went ahead and read the wikipedia account of her life to get the info on her mother, etc. There was a lot I didn't know about who she was. It helps with context if you haven't read it yet.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


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Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, September 6th (Monday)

My understanding is that during WWI, the war was between the British and Germans in East Africa.

And I think the book described Arab Maina went willingly, thinking it was his duty, with his spear.

This was very sad to me. He got his rifle and looked for someone to fight, and was shot and killed.

His opponent was also looking for someone to fight and shoot.


Posts: 2755 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: oceanside, calif.
punky
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Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, September 7th (Tuesday)

Wow. I am loving this book more and more like mellowmood.

I haven't read any background on her...I'm kind of enjoying the "gleaning" of info from what she writes. I think her mother is not deceased or she would have said that. Thinking her mom didn't want to go to Africa...or something.

Not just with Camciscan, but with other animals, too--Buller, Coquette, the warthogs, and the new foal--she really has an interpretation of what they are "feeling". I think it's funny how she ascribes to them very human thoughts/emotions. My brother trains dogs and when my kids say things like "that dog is sad", he always says "don't think of them as people, they're not." She is just sooo totally the opposite.

Arab Maina... That was just so sad and so USELESS.

When she was describing the events leading up to the birth of the foal, I really thought she was in her early twenties. She had her own hut, she had assistants...to find out she was only 15 was just a shock. Is there nothing she can't do?

Thought it was also interesting that she only had her first mirror at 15. And that she wasn't totally pleased with what was in it and wondered how that might be changed. This really surprised me--just didn't think she'd care that much. Really added kind of an interesting angle to her for me.


ETA...the part of Arab Maina was just so sad, too, because he really loved her and cared for her. The warthog adventure certainly proved that...I really like how she doesn't really tell things in a chronological order, but rather how things are linked in her head (at least it seems this way to me).

[This message edited by punky at 8:00 AM, September 7th (Tuesday)]


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

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NewAttitude
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Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, September 7th (Tuesday)

I am having to go back and read this book again to delve deeper.

Is anyone else getting the feeling that she writes with a curious sense of detachment? Like, in remembering, she has edited out any really strong emotions? I mean, she was attacked by a freaking lion and while it sounds terrifying and exciting she is very matter of fact about it.
Do you think this is because she may identify herself more strongly with male characteristics than female?

I'm just getting the feeling that maybe she was a very 'contained' kind of person. I would expect someone who lived such a flamboyant kind of life to be more dramatic or something.

I don't think I'm explaining myself well.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

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punky
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Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, September 8th (Wednesday)

I think she is a restrained person--you know, stiff upper lip and all that.

But I don't think she is detached at all. I think in the case of the lion, she has blocked most of it out...like her scream at that time...it was so awful that she couldn't even hear it at the time. And her description of the lion's roar and the sounds of hell--I think she was definitely affected.

I think she has really "analyzed" her life and in writing about it, it comes across as detached.

[This message edited by punky at 8:20 AM, September 8th (Wednesday)]


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

Posts: 11295 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: A whole 'nother country
Skye
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Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, September 8th (Wednesday)

I am going to rejoin the conversation after I finish the book. I find I have too many questions in sections that are answered later on so I think I will be a better contributor after I finish the book.

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really trying
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Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, September 8th (Wednesday)

I didn't get my reading finished. So, I'll be back


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


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howcouldhe1
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Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, September 8th (Wednesday)

I absolutely adore the way she describes Bishon Singh's way of speaking. On advising her father about the lion attack "......that you had been moderately eaten by the large lion". Moderately eaten. It had me crying with laughter, even though it was such a terrifying event.


Me BS 54 FWH (BT) 52 M 22 years D Day 4/11/06 Over a year of trickle truths. March 08. D Day 2. Online porn and SA. Just when I thought we'd be ok, July 19 08. BT had accident. Severe brain damage, in persistent vegetative state. I lost him anyway.

Posts: 5488 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Kent UK
punky
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Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, September 8th (Wednesday)

I know--that WAS funny!!!

I also love how they call her Beru...


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

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mellowmood
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Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, September 10th (Friday)

Still loving this book.

Wondering how far along everyone is.


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Default  Posted: 3:14 AM, September 11th (Saturday)

I'm through with part 3.

With the lion attack, I think part of it is that she was a child, wasn't she? If she was 15 when she delivered Coquette's colt, she was pre-pubescent during the lion attack. Her little friend must not have even been old enough to accompany them because he should've been along otherwise.

I get the sense that her father has absolutely no idea where she even is at any given time.

Normally I would be very disapproving of cat eating dogs but I LOLd when the leopard's attempt at avenging the feline race simply resulted in its death and her dog's cat killing changing from a hobby to a vocation.

[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 3:16 AM, September 11th (Saturday)]


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls he’d known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

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waiting2see
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Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, September 11th (Saturday)

I'm working on part 3 and will be done by Monday to discuss.

I agree that her father does not have any clue what she is up to much of the time. I'm a little surprised that, given her mother isn't there, that he doesn't keep a female nanny around.

Maybe he did when she was a baby. But still I think it would not be uncommon for him to keep some type of woman in the house to care for or watch out for her.

She must have a tutor of some sort b/c she speaks of avoiding lessons.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


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punky
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Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, September 14th (Tuesday)

She does have some sort of tutor...it is mentioned at the beginning of part two somewhere. I am going to re-read and see if there is something I missed there.

Doesn't seem that there was a nanny, though. She matured quickly. And I agree that he didn't seem to keep up with her activities much. But overall feel that she had a closeness with her father. They did things together; he taught her the horse business.

I finished part three. Didn't really get into it as much. The way she wrote this section seems different from the first two. Does anyone think she was depressed during this time? She seemed sad until the section about the race. This was a big transition in her life and a lot of bad things happened, so I guess it would make sense that it would come across in the writing.

I feel sorry for Wild Child...glad they didn't race her again.


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

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Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, September 14th (Tuesday)

I'm a horse lover. When I went to my first horse race as a child, one of the fillies broke a leg and collapsed on the track. It was HORRIBLE.

When I got to the race part in the book, I could hardly get through it. The author really built up the excitement, telling the story kind of from the horses' points of view. Excellent writing!


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Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, September 15th (Wednesday)

I'm behind in my reading.
I do find that I am having a hard time limiting myself to just the books so I'm thinking in the future that I need to read the entire book before yakking about it.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

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Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, September 15th (Wednesday)

Sheesh, I'm way ahead. YIKES!

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Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, September 16th (Thursday)

Finished the book last night. I really enjoyed it.

I'll reserve other comments until it's time to discuss.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


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howcouldhe1
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Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, September 16th (Thursday)

I've finished too. Couldn't stop myself. I'll wait to discuss till next week.


Me BS 54 FWH (BT) 52 M 22 years D Day 4/11/06 Over a year of trickle truths. March 08. D Day 2. Online porn and SA. Just when I thought we'd be ok, July 19 08. BT had accident. Severe brain damage, in persistent vegetative state. I lost him anyway.

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really trying
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Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, September 16th (Thursday)

I'm bringing up the rear


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


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Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, September 16th (Thursday)

I'm still dragging through the elephant hunt - not my cup of tea.

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hope4tomorrow
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Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, September 16th (Thursday)

I'm very behind. I had to return my library book because someone wanted it. I don't know when I'll get another one (there were 2 available to transfer to my library). But anyway, this has been a hellacious week as we found out my dad might have cancer so I don't think I would have read much anyway. I might have to just start with the next book.


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

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Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, September 16th (Thursday)

Speaking of the next book, should we start a new thread to discuss it?

Iknow we discussed starting the debate earlier so we would be able to move into then next book after we finish the discussion of this book next week.

Ok, I'll just go ahead and start it.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


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punky
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Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, September 16th (Thursday)

I think we should discuss on a new thread.

Hopefully, we can come to an agreement more quickly!

Maybe a genre that is a complete 180 from Adventure...fantasy or sci-fi maybe.

[This message edited by punky at 8:54 PM, September 16th (Thursday)]


Be a lion, not a mowess...
The Cowardly Lion

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Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, September 17th (Friday)

Still bogged down on the elephant hunt.

Did that happen to anyone else?


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Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, September 17th (Friday)

Yes.
I'm going to have to skip that part, I think.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

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Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, September 18th (Saturday)

I "savored" the elephant hunt portion less than some others. I got thru it and gleaned all that went on but I didn't focus as closely on the imagery as in other parts.

A big part of it was how much I hate the thought of killing the elephants. I mean the way they look for as many bucks as possible with as much ivory as possible. It so shameful and wasteful and sad.

And that these people who pay for the safaris have someone else track their prey and carry their weapons and then they just sneak up and shoot the elephant. It was hard to read.

It was interesting that she saw it as somewhat barbaric yet she still did it--business is business so to speak.

I wonder if before she died she saw the devestation done to the elephant population in the sick hunt for ivory.

You get the impression when she's doing it that she seems to think there is an endless supply of elephants. Unless, of course, she didn't think of this at all.



me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


Posts: 1932 | Registered: Feb 2007
mellowmood
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Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, September 19th (Sunday)

Well, I was thinking the elephant hunt went on for 100 pages, but counted them and it isn't that many. Just feel like I have been crawling through Africa at bug eye level, hunting elephants for the past week.

I don't know what it is, but can hardly make myself read. And I started out not being able to put the book down.


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Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, September 20th (Monday)

I'm having a really hard time now getting back into this.

Ugh.

It's hard to remind myself that this woman lived in a different time and different country and what the norms were for them aren't for us today.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

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Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, September 20th (Monday)

i'm still reading. Do we have a time limit? That might light a fire underneath me. And don't tell me it's Monday.


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


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waiting2see
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Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, September 20th (Monday)

Okay, Really Trying, we won't tell you. lol

But we won't start reading the new book until everyone gets it so we still have the rest of the week to discuss this one.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


Posts: 1932 | Registered: Feb 2007
really trying
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Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, September 20th (Monday)

thanks for not telling me.


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


Posts: 10397 | Registered: Sep 2004 | From: California
NewAttitude
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Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, September 25th (Saturday)

Okay I finished this book.
I'll reserve my comments until other people are done.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

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Skye
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Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, September 25th (Saturday)

I should be finished this afternoon. Have lots of comments.

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Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, September 25th (Saturday)

I'm anxious to hear the comments of those who have just finished.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


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Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, September 27th (Monday)

Hope it's okay to start the discussion today. One nice thing about this book is there are no spoilers.

Liked the book, but didn’t like the author. I think she was very selfish. Perhaps that is the way one has to be to get where she did. She just wasn’t a likeable character, to me.

Thought her writing was beautiful. Loved how she compared the desert to night:

Like night, the desert is boundless, comfortless, and infinite. Like night, it intrigues the mind and leads it to futility.
How many times do we look at a problem and night and think, “I'll wait until morning to deal with this.”

Didn’t understand exactly the role of Arab Ruta. Was he her slave or her servant? Why was he called “Arab?”

Also wondered why she was treated more like a boy than a girl. Was her father just not interested? Did he not want to do the job of parenting that a mom would have done? Why wasn’t a “governess type” hired or did I miss that? Would like to know more about her dad. Did love her dad’s advice when she was going to try to be a horse trainer:

Work and hope. But never hope more than you work.
What a great mantra for life!

Didn’t like the chapter in the voice of the horse. Didn’t “get” why she did that. Also didn’t like the idea of hunting elephants. Just a short aside, I recently took a class and elephants were described, like monkeys, animals closest to human beings when it comes to empathy. You certainly saw that when the females pretended to be bulls to protect the bulls.

I really did enjoy reading this book. While I didn’t like the main character in this book, I liked many of her characters. Maybe she just has an easier time describing others (generally men) as opposed to herself. I felt she made Africa a very alive character which I loved.

Did do a little reading about her on the internet. This site is very interesting. http://www.wou.edu/las/socsci/kimjensen/wildepaper.htm She was married a number of times, as well as the other woman, at least once, which was a very accepted practice in Africa. She gave birth to a deformed son who she basically abandoned, as was done to her by her mother. Probably should have done this research before I read the book!

Hope that wasn’t saying to much, but I wanted to get everything out I felt about the book before I forget, since I want to return it to the library on a timely basis.


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Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, September 27th (Monday)

I did the internet research too during the book and I know it changed my view of her a little bit.

I didn't see the part about her chld; but, I guess it is consistent with what she learned from her mother. You never get the sense that she connects with her mother later in life--maybe she died?

I mentioned earlier the thing about her father having no governess or anyone for her. I thought that was odd too. It really does seem that he raised her as he would have a son. And, in a lot of ways, she responded in kind--her independence and closer association with men than women.

I also saw on the internet that there was some speculation about whether she or one of her lovers actually "wrote" the book. I wondered a little about that when some parts seemed remarkably different than others--for instance, when she does the narrative from the horse.

Maybe she was just experimenting or maybe she had written some journal entries or short stories in the past that she sort of incorporated into this memoir?

I did like the horse narrative but it seemed sort of "shoved in" to the rest of the memoir.

All-in--all I really enjoyed the book. Of course a lot of the practices--elephant hunting and such--were horrifying; but, it was a very different time, I suppose.

I will say that she did seem to appreciate how intelligent the elephants were and yet she still participated in hunting them down. And she even seemed to use their intelligence as a justification for the hunting--saying something about that they seemed to have more of a fighting chance than some other prey do. That thinking seemed rather warped to me.


me: BS
him: XWS

Much of your pain is self-chosen. ~Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet, 1923

"It's not livin' that you're doin' if it feels like dyin." Ray Lamontagne


Posts: 1932 | Registered: Feb 2007
howcouldhe1
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Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, September 27th (Monday)

I didn't find her a particularly likeable character either. I think as NA mentioned earlier she just seems very detached from everything she wrote about. Maybe that was because of the way she was brought up and I guess it would be understandable, but she didn't seem to bring any sort of passion to the events she described and for that reason I found myself not actually caring very much either.


Me BS 54 FWH (BT) 52 M 22 years D Day 4/11/06 Over a year of trickle truths. March 08. D Day 2. Online porn and SA. Just when I thought we'd be ok, July 19 08. BT had accident. Severe brain damage, in persistent vegetative state. I lost him anyway.

Posts: 5488 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Kent UK
Topic Posts: 134