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User Topic: For Those That Love An Alcoholic - II
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Default  Posted: 6:52 PM, July 9th (Saturday)


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, July 9th (Saturday)

Thanks for the new thread.

Having a relapse of sorts regarding my xwh.

My divorce has been final for over 2 years but I got some paperwork from my L that xwh was dragging his feet on and it lists his address as that of one of the ow's town. I feel kind of sick and he probably lives with her.
We've been NC and he has never apologized or made amends (alcoholic) for all the harm he caused me yet he can just go on with his life and act as if I never existed.

I'm signing the papers and mailing them to my L and want to continue moving on but this is a new hurt.

How is it that they can move on with their lives so easily without ever apologizing for all the damage they have caused?

I feel like I have been permanently affected by living with an alcoholic yet he just goes on his merry way with one of the ows - Thanks for letting me vent here!!



"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, July 10th (Sunday)

(((Why??)))

It is amazing how a person can so easily move on without remorse or regret for the havoc they have caused. But, in the mind of an alcoholic they haven't done anything wrong. It is always rationalized so that they don't own the problem. With my xWW it shows in how she deals with our son's depresson and emotional issues. These things manifested due to her actions, yet her response is they would have happened anyway. She doesn't own her problems. While not drinking currently, she hasn't changed behavior. The alcoholic thinking is still there.

That is why you've gotten nothing from your alcoholic. No amends, because it's not his fault... he's done nothing wrong. He moved on quickly because he rationalized it was over for a long time to justify what he's done.

You long for the person he was. You have memories of a person before alcohol took over their life that would have never done this to you. You also have codependant tendancies most likely as do nearly all of us who loved alcoholics and you've bought into you could have done something to control what happened and make it different. But, you don't. You had no control over what he did. It was his actions and choices that led you to where you are. You could only control what you did. You did what you had to do. Keep doing it. Continue to grieve the loss of the person you loved. They don't exist anymore. Alcohol took them away with the help of their own charactor defects that enabled them to break their vows to you.

Take care of yourself and move forward with your life.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
suckstobeme
Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, July 10th (Sunday)

How do you know if someone is a "functional alcoholic"?? I've heard that term many times over the years. My STBXH drank a lot while we were in grad school, but so did everyone. He drank after we were married, but he never drove and it never seemed to get in the way of life. After we had kids, he really didn't drink much (that I know of) - it seemed to curtail. However, during the A, the drinking ramped up about 1,000 percent. And, for the first time since we were M and had babies, he became exceedingly reckless and thoughtless. The drinking seemed to come first before everything.

I guess I don't understand or know if that was because of the A and his guilt over it or was the alcohol what fueled the A?? The OW apparently is very into partying so that's the common thread.

It's very hard to understand.


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2506 | Registered: Jan 2011
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, July 10th (Sunday)

Why-
So sorry that this revelation is causing you pain.
It is amazing how long it takes to recover from infidelity. And it doesn't matter whether you reconcile or you divorce....the pain is still there.

If he is still with the OW then most likely she is an alcoholic as well.
I did not realize this until after d-day and after reading about alcoholism and infidelity...but the two go hand in hand. It's not 'IF' your alcoholic spouse will have an affair it's 'WHEN'...
and now, thinking about it I realize that it is so obvious.
My husband said that drinking was a big factor in his affair and a big reason that he was attracted to the OW.
I did not approve of his drinking. I did not want to encourage his drinking by joining him. I did not find him attractive when he was drunk-in fact it was the opposite-it turned me off.
The MOW not only approved of his drinking, she encouraged it and joined him and drank him under the table.
I represented reality. She represented fun and fantasy.

So..it very well may be that your exWH is still with her because they are both drinking.

And, for what it's worth-you do know that the odds of a WS marrying an affair partner is very low...something like 5%.
The reason? that fantasy thing. As soon as they start seeing them 24/7 they realize that they are no where near the fantasy.

STBM-
The way I understand it a 'functional alcoholic' is someone that has an alcohol problem but still manages to hold down a job and a semblance of normal life.
Many people think that to be considered an alcoholic you have to be a homeless person on the street. Meanwhile, alcoholics can be anyone-your dentist, lawyer, teacher, etc.
My husband was a functional alcoholic. He always held down a professional job etc. and yet his drinking was out of control, his life had become unmanageable (especially during the affair years).

[This message edited by njgal480 at 12:35 AM, July 11th (Monday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, July 13th (Wednesday)

Thanks Betrayed1012 and njgal480 -- I just wish this new hurt wouldn't affect me but I have emotions and perhaps now knowing the final outcome after the D will help me to move on.

He supposedly got sober in the Fall of '09 so if he's working his program then why have I never received an amends?...Instead he has a relationship during the 1st year of sobriety...Well, good luck to him and ow.

Hope everyone is hanging in there


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, July 16th (Saturday)

Why-
I think you know the answer. He is not doing the program.
He probably has relapsed and definitely has not made been working on himself. It does not appear as if he has done the internal work needed to truly change.
Do you have children together?
If so.. I could see why you would be concerned about his sobriety etc.
But, if you do not have children together it may be best for you to detach from him and his issues.
Hazelden.com has a lot of books on codependency /alcoholism and little pamphlets of affirmations etc.
I listed a number of books that helped me understand alcoholis/addiction etc. in the previous forum. It may be helpful for you to go back and read some of the older posts.
I am so sorry for your pain.
It is horrible how addictions can destroy people/families/marriages and the pain of infidelity takes years to get over.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
momdaughterwife
Member
Member # 32209
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, July 16th (Saturday)

BS here. My WH is an alcoholic. I think "functional" means they are not behaving recklessly, yet. One thing I learned in my meetings is it's a progressive disease. It affects/damages the brain. There is a turning point for most people with the disease where it has progressed to the point where it changes who they are. They become very ill. There are health problems brewing in their bodies and they may not have symptoms yet. They have to drink more and more to get the same affect. They switch from beer to the hard stuff. Right before rehab., my WH was drinking a quart of vodka every three days. He was vomiting daily. He had all kinds of health issues. All of this was being hidden from me. The thing that prompted my "intervention" was that he was drinking and driving. Not okay! It was much worse when he told me all after getting sober and going to AA. That being said, they can be influenced to feed their addictions in the company of other addicts. If sober, they usually have to "lose" quite a few friends. It's a deadly progressive disease. Destroys lives.


Me BS
Him WH
2 boys
We've all been through a lot. Our family seems to be thriving again. I pray that will continue.

Posts: 825 | Registered: May 2011
phoenix_vs
Member
Member # 29193
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, July 18th (Monday)

Word. Same song, third verse.

For this verse, I have a ring, lovely diamond eternity ring. So far, same empty promises. I'm not buying into it this time. I have two paths always in front of me. One of us together, and one of just me. I never know which one to take.

Now he's decided to be more honest and open, and he told me he needed to apologize to his first ex-wife and that she's the only girl he feels he needs to apologize to.


If the guy that broke up with me at that age had called lately or emailed, I would say, "ok, cool, it's ok, have a nice life". Instead, he writes this big long letter, which he shared with me after I confronted him last night about a (wait for it) THREE HOUR conversation with this woman he was married to for six months in 1979!!!

Nothing really wrong with the contents of the letter, but why the PHONE CALL?

More promises, and reassurances. Alcoholic nonsense.

I'm tired.


I'm not sad that you lied to me. I'm sad that I can never believe you again.

Well, I'm sad that you lied to me, too.


Posts: 371 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Great Falls Montana
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, July 18th (Monday)

phoenix-
Did he also apologize/try to make amends to you?
Or is this his way of making amends? just to his ex wife from long ago?
Is he in IC? AA? It could be that this is something that he remembered and has been discussing... just realizing now after all these years how badly he treated her and now he wants to make amends?

As long as he's also doing the right thing by you...and it's just this one contact with the ex.... maybe I would let it go.

Sometimes its easier dealing with something far away and long ago as opposed to dealing with the here and now.
Do you think that may be what's going on? avoidance of what is right in front of him?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Secondbestiguess
Member
Member # 30333
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, July 20th (Wednesday)

"
My STBXH drank a lot while we were in grad school, but so did everyone. He drank after we were married, but he never drove and it never seemed to get in the way of life. After we had kids, he really didn't drink much (that I know of) - it seemed to curtail. However, during the A, the drinking ramped up about 1,000 percent. And, for the first time since we were M and had babies, he became exceedingly reckless and thoughtless. The drinking seemed to come first before everything.

I could have written this. I fully believe my WH is a functional alcohol addict. Or more so he's addicted to the feeling it gives him so he doesn't have to think about the pain so much. I can u derstand somewhat, as I have drank more in the last 8 months than in my whole life! However, he is also very reckless now, drinks and drives, I have caught him thinking he was going to drive with the kids, it's horrible! He used to drink a lot in college I guess, but once we had kids and such, there were times I would have to beg him to go out with me!
He started feeling really dissatisfied with life before the A, and I did notice the drinking and gambling picked up, but during the A, it became out of control. After DDay I asked him to quit numerous times and he would say he would, but he could only last a few days at most. He would find a reason to be mad at me as an excuse to break his promise. Of course he also says that how dare I tell him to quit when I am drinking also. The difference is, I still make sure my kids and family are first and most important before any drinking. I don't drink and drive with my kids! I am home, he's at the bar. I still can make good choices, know Right From wrong, and know when to quit!
He's spent well over $10,000 in the slot machines this year already! He makes very reckless choices and is NOT there for his family other than financially, which I guess in his mind is what matters.
Ugh



"The person who will be true to you is the one who doesn't need you to establish and enforce a set of rules for him/her to live by."

Posts: 474 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: NW Minnesota
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, August 7th (Sunday)

Looking for some thoughts from those who have an alcoholic in active recovery and those who don't, also.

My xWW seems to think the world should trust her because she's got a year without drinking. My worries are she has not done the work needed for active recovery. She goes to AA meetings and that is good, but you have do more than show up and share to be in active recovery IMO. She's in a relationship with a fellow alcoholic, her OM, that she used to relapse with. Most importantly she's accepted no responsibility for the damage she's caused in her children's lives. She's not working or looking for work, but living off the settlement money. Essentially, she's living a fantasy that will come to a end at some point. The money run out, the relationship fail...

If it were just my xWW, then I would know she's responsible for getting into active recovery verses just being dry. I'm concerned with how this affects my children. I'm concerned it's not a matter of if, but when she relapses again.

Am I being too hard on her? Not giving her enough credit because of the pain she's caused me as well as the children? Or, am I just being realistic about it?


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, August 7th (Sunday)

Wow Secondbest!
Your WH has a lot of different addiction issues doesn't he? But, then again..that's not so uncommon.
My husband also has an addictive personality.
I too knew he had a drinking problem when we were young and dating in college but..like you..I thought it was just one of those things that kids do in college, that he would mature and outgrow it but I was wrong.
It turned out to be an issue throughout our marriage.
My husband was a 'functional' alcoholic. He managed to always maintain his professional job etc. but the binge drinking and partying with drinking buddies took it's toll on our marriage.
And then..he did what most alcoholics eventually do...he had an affair with a female alcoholic/drinking buddy.
It took him 25 yrs to get to that point..but he did.

D-day was hitting bottom for my husband. I kicked him out of the house and that's when he finally realized that his life had become unmanageable. That he had betrayed me and our family in a way that he never thought he was capable of doing.
But, that's what happens...they get caught in a toxic downward spiral and things just start spinning out of control until they hit bottom.

There are ways to bring up the bottom so they hit it sooner. Implementing the 180 is one way to do this. Have you read about the articles about the 180 in the Healing Library? (yellow box in the upper left hand corner).
That could be a start.
Then going to ALANON for yourself is another thing that I would recommend you try.
It helps to talk to others that are living through the same thing.

How have you been handling all of this? Has that big gambling loss impacted your family?
Have you gone to IC for yourself?
Have you gone to MC with your WH?

Do you want to try to reconcile with him?
Is he remorseful? Do you think he wants to save the marriage? Or is he too lost in his addictions at this point?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, August 7th (Sunday)

Betrayed-
I hear how concerned you are about the welfare of your children.
It does sound like your WW still has some toxic thinking going on.
Actually don't they say that it takes as long as 1 yr of sobriety for the alcoholic to totally come out of the 'fog' of the addictive thinking?
At least it appears that she has stayed sober for 1 yr. That is an accomplishment.

The fact that she is not looking for work or facing the fact that she will need to find a job very soon does raise a red flag as to whether or not she is thinking clearly about her future etc.

Did she have affairs during the marriage? Before she went to AA? or was that her first OM? the guy she met at AA?
Is he sober? or don't you know?
You still have primary of your children don't you?
Does she see the kids at all at this point?

DO you think she's expecting the OM to bail her out and support her when the settlement money runs out?
What about her family? parents? siblings? do they have any influence over her?



Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, August 7th (Sunday)

njgal480,

I do have physical custody and xWW sees the children every other weekend and once or twice during the week. All supervised.

The OM was her first affair. She said they have a special bond. They met at detox when I checked her into the psych hospital as did the OM's wife. They decided their spouses weren't supporting them, didn't understand them and turned on us declaring theyhad a special bond. All in less than 30 days.

My xWW has alienated her brother and her father who is a recovering alcoholic doesn't think she is on the right path to long term sobriety. They both call her to try to stay in touch, but she returns calls if she needs something. they can supervised her visits as well as her mother. Her mother is who xWW has chosen to maintain contact with. She has to if she wants to see the children. Her mother is enabling and finds her self-worth from "saving" others. My xWW plays up to this. How manipulative an alcoholic is when not in true recovery.

I see red flags just as you have mentioned. I've had to take xWW to court to get support. I have a lot of worry about her condition as it relates to caring for the children. I don't think she'd ever go for trying to take custody from me even if she continues not to drink. That would cramp her life with OM. But, I think she wants 50/50 to get out of support or for me to pay her.

I've been dealing with her alcoholism and how it has affected the children for over two years. I feel I must protect my children. They love their mother and worry about her.I just wish she would show that she could handle responsibility by getting a job rather than how she has done this litigation. She has never told me she was going to seek unsupervised visits, I was just served the summons. Even after, nothing to show what she has done to change... maybe because other than staying dry there is no change.

I am so glad I found this site and especially this thread/topic. I used to think I was all alone in dealing with adultery and a spouse's alcoholism. Thanks to all who have given support and insight as I've dealt with this.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 9:46 AM, August 8th (Monday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, August 8th (Monday)

Betrayed-Sorry that you are dealing with all of this.
Hopefully posting here will help you to get your thoughts together and process this.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
healingtree
Member
Member # 15467
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, August 22nd (Monday)

After four years....fwh has fallen off the wagon. Tells me now that he is not an alcoholic...and that he can handle drinking.

Oh yes, like you handled it so well before?

Four years of sobriety and trying to rebuild down the fucking toilet. And he is acting as if nothing has happened.


FBS 1st D-day 7-11-07, 2nd DDay Post-Breakup in 8-12
HIM - Doesn't Matter Anymore
The only thing we can change about the past is how we look at it.

Posts: 8329 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Here and Now
tryingtwo
Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 11:20 PM, August 22nd (Monday)

I just want to write this on this thread for those that are suffering with an alcoholic.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease that is progressive whether a person drinks or not. Once an alcholic is sober they can be sober for years, but when they take that first drink it doesn't take them back to the level of drinking when they stopped, it takes them to the level of drinking if they had been drinking all those sober years. I learned this from my alcholic Aunt that stayed an active member of AA for over 40 yrs. She never relapsed, she was too afraid of where she would be.

I am so sorry Healingtree. After going through so much for so long and working so hard to keep it all together, he throws it away for a drink. It is a harsh sickness and a grand crutch for those that cannot deal with life on their own. A learned coping mechinism that carries a death sentence.

My heart just hurts with you right now.

((((((Healingtree))))))


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
healingtree
Member
Member # 15467
Default  Posted: 11:56 PM, August 22nd (Monday)

Thanks TT that is important info.

For those of you worried about your own alcoholic...fyi my WH whiteknuckled it, never did the program, said he didn't feel comfortable and he was fine on his own.

He did do fine for quite a while.

Sad all the advice he gave his friends who were drinking heavy, and he turns around and starts again

sad sad sad.

Many of them admired him for turning his life around...

Do I say that to him? Do I press the matter? Is there anything I can say that might trigger a response? I would hate to just let go without trying...sober he can be an asshole too, but I don't want to see his life go to waste.


FBS 1st D-day 7-11-07, 2nd DDay Post-Breakup in 8-12
HIM - Doesn't Matter Anymore
The only thing we can change about the past is how we look at it.

Posts: 8329 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Here and Now
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:47 PM, August 23rd (Tuesday)

Healing Tree-
So sorry to hear this.
My FWH has also been sober about the same amount of time-4 and 1/2 yrs.
I guess your story is a reminder that it can all change very quickly with that one drink.

If you're asking if you should try to intervene in some way at this point...
well, my answer would be yes.

I lived with a functional alcoholic throughout my marriage..and then like most alcoholics he fell into an affair with a female alcoholic/drinking buddy.

If my FWH were to fall off the wagon I would go berserk.
I would absolutely draw a line in the sand.

After d-day I kicked him out of the house and not too long after...I filed for divorce. D-day was hitting bottom for my FWH. He woke up and realized how toxic his life had become. He got sober right away...white knuckled it but then sought out IC for 1 and 1/2 yrs and...most importantly started working the program through AA. He started with 90 meetings in 90 days.

I know that some people can stop drinking on their own but... I think the support of a daily or weekly AA meeting is priceless.

What I always say is that stopping drinking is not enough. That is a dry drunk. Someone who has stopped drinking but has not done any of the hard work on themselves. Someone who has not gone to IC or to AA meetings and has not changed anything about his or her toxic thinking.

Same as with infidelity. Stopping the affair is not enough. The WS has to do a lot of internal work...trying to figure what was broken in themselves,how they sunk to the point that they betrayed their marriage vows, betrayed their spouses etc.
Are you reconciled with your FWH?
Does he want to save the marriage?
What do you think you could say or do that would get him to go to an AA meeting?

Just one..for starters.

A husband of a friend had 2 LTAs and had issues with porn etc. He ended the affairs and tried to stop the porn...went to MC , R was going well and then 4 yrs post d-day he slipped a tiny bit in terms of porn...his BW flipped out and demanded that he either leave or go to a SA meeting.
He had always insisted that he was NOT a SA....
but, now because he ws motivated to save the marriage he went to a meeting.
And...it changed his life.
He realized that the other men at the meeting were more like him than he had imagined..just regular guys struggling with these issues...
now he leads the meetings, has become much more communicative and open in the marriage..etc. etc.

My point is... that support groups can be so helpful for the addict.

Wish there was a way to get your FWH to buy into that......


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
openbook
Member
Member # 12331
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, August 24th (Wednesday)

My H had 6 1/2 years sober before his relapse. Like your H, he didn't do any recovery work. Then after all that time.... He was depressed. His life sucked. He was bored. He started using again.

Ironic thing was I actually caught him high in the beginning but believed his lies about it. Four years of daily use and two A's later everything falls apart.

I don't want that for you or your H.

I didn't have much success with Alanon...have you tried it?


Let us not look back in anger, nor forward in fear, but around in awareness. ~ James Thurber

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: SoCal
healingtree
Member
Member # 15467
Default  Posted: 10:50 PM, August 25th (Thursday)

We have talked and I was very clear - no going back to drinking or I am done.

No, oh its only one. I can forgive a fall off the wagon, ONCE, but there is no way in hell I am accepting it as a lifestyle choice.

He told me that he understood, and that he recognized that it was the wrong thing, and it would not happen again.

We will see.

I do think if he would just give AA a chance, or find a good sponsor, it would open his life up to more happiness and peace.

He just seems so miserable all the time....unless he is drinking, then he is quite chipper. He needs to find some other kind of sunshine...

Sad that you can tell he has been drinking because he has a smile on his face.


FBS 1st D-day 7-11-07, 2nd DDay Post-Breakup in 8-12
HIM - Doesn't Matter Anymore
The only thing we can change about the past is how we look at it.

Posts: 8329 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Here and Now
cautiousoptimist
Member
Member # 24222
Default  Posted: 12:03 AM, August 26th (Friday)

Jesus HT you were the last person I would have hoped to find here. SUCKAGE.

My FWH has really slacked off the program and I really do NOT care if he does 12 steps. He could do smart recovery, lifering, men for sobriety, whatever. But he's got to do SOMETHING, that's what it means to be "active" in recovery.

As a recovering addict myself with almost a year of sustained and uninterrupted sobriety through Women for Sobriety, I totally get why I need to reach out and have a daily practice and a weekly practice, to honestly re-establish my habits and thinking patterns.

I do fear his relapse, and if he doesn't get pro-active, it's just inevitable.

And yeah, they liken your addiction to a tiger or monster or dragon who continues to grow even when you don't feed it. That's why many die when they relapse. It's scary, and I really get how it destroys the trust.

On the other hand, many addiction experts say that relapse CAN be part of the learning process, as long as the addict determines what went wrong and makes a plan to ensure such a situation doesn't occur again, or acknowledges that they need more tools.

betrayed, your XWW is not just dealing with addiction, IMHO, but also some narcissistic stuff. As long as she stays away from some intense therapy, she will continue to be toxic.

I love and have so much compassion for all of us in this situation. It is so very tough.


Me: BW, 43
Him: FWH, 50, alcoholic/drug addict in rehab, staying sober
D-day:4/30/09
Marriage 11 years
In R, doing our best
I will have it even so.

Posts: 652 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: san diego
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:32 AM, August 26th (Friday)

Healingtree-
I wish he would just try going to one AA meeting.
MY FWH (now sober for over 4 yrs) said that when he first went to the meetings (90 meetings in 90 days) he tried a variety of different meetings in different places and at different times of the day. He found that each meeting had a slightly different personality or vibe depending on those attending.
He found one meeting where he felt like he would 'fit' in. He also found some wonderful sponsors.
He continues to go to AA (now just once or twice a week) but I truly believe that AA is responsible for changing his life and our lives.
It's not just about stopping drinking or using drugs or stopping the affair....it's about doing the hard work to take a look at yourself, who you had become, and what you need to do to change your entire way at looking at the world, yourself, etc.
My husband is now so much happier and has such peace.
He was looking for that in a bottle but has found that within himself, in his marriage, in his family. He just looks at the world in a different way.
His positive attitude has been rubbing off on me.
So some kind of regular support group can be life saving.
Please encourage your FWH to find some kind of support.
Like CT said it doesn't have to be AA but something.....


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
healingtree
Member
Member # 15467
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, August 27th (Saturday)

Thank you for all the thoughtful responses. While I understand that the relapse might be something that could spur deeper thought and an outreach for help, I can already see that is not going to happen. He is back to white knuckling it, I can see him just sucking it up. I think it scared him, (course not while he was drinking!) But not enought to seek help. There are so many things in our relationship that are not working, and I believe most of that is because he cannot be happy until he deals with his addiction.

It is hard on the entire family...dealing with the depression, anger, and nearly constant dissatisfaction.

Strange - I can find peace in my heart in nearly any circumstance, but I wonder if peace is something he has ever experienced.

I cannot predict what will happen, only continue to point in the direction that I believe will help, while also being clear about what is unacceptable to me, and will cause major changes.

He is going on a trip "back home" in September. He won't be alone, so there will be some accountablility, but that doesn't really matter - if he is looking for it as an "out" he will find it. I told him that if he takes a drink while he is there, don't bother coming back.

There is no leeway here.

He is trying very hard to be nice, attentive, a "good partner" but I can tell that he is just doing it to get back into good graces. Like if I am ahppy, I will stop shining that bright light on the bigger problem.


FBS 1st D-day 7-11-07, 2nd DDay Post-Breakup in 8-12
HIM - Doesn't Matter Anymore
The only thing we can change about the past is how we look at it.

Posts: 8329 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Here and Now
Paperclip
Member
Member # 27192
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, August 27th (Saturday)

Ok, I am finally admitting that I need to be on this thread, too. Last night WH spent our entire week's food money at the bar.

I could have wrote what njgal did,

I too knew he had a drinking problem when we were young and dating in college but..like you..I thought it was just one of those things that kids do in college, that he would mature and outgrow it but I was wrong.

A combo of years of Wh's gaslighting and my denial/naivety prevented me from taking this as seriously as I should have.

Looking forward to learning more about this.


Posts: 819 | Registered: Jan 2010
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, August 27th (Saturday)

Paperclip-Sorry that you find yourself here but good that you recognize the problem.
Half the battle is realizing that there is a problem.
It might be helpful for you to go back and read the thread 'For Those That Love An Alcoholic-I' a lot of good discussions on there, book suggestions, etc.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, August 27th (Saturday)

Healing tree-
What does he say when you suggest AA to him?
Do you have children?
WOuld it help if there was some kind of intervention?

I just did that with a relative of mine. Her drinking had gotten way out of control. She has adult children (in their 20's) and I finally decided to reach out to them in the hopes that they could say or do something to intervene.
It seems to have made a big impact on her. The drinking has stopped and she is in IC etc.
Just some thoughts.....


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
survivorman
Member
Member # 29515
Default  Posted: 2:05 AM, August 28th (Sunday)

I'm coming at the topic of this forum sort of ass-backward. And if I don't belong here, I'll gladly beat as graceful a hasty retreat as I can manage.

I was the one in our marriage with a drinking problem, but my WW was the one who had the EA (well, call it part EA, part psychotic break -- details in my profile in case anyone cares) and who, after a year of false R, wrapped herself in wayward fog and announced she was moving out and wanted a divorce.

I've been thinking more about this history for the past week or so, as I'm a few days away from my one-year soberversary (yay, me), which also makes it close to a year since WW and I separated. I've never really bought WW's claim that she left largely because of my drinking -- for several reasons, it smacks too neatly of wayward blame-shifting -- but I also can't deny that my problem was a serious one and that it did some major damage to our relationship. Or that my drinking -- which I'd cut back almost to zero during the EA and its immediate aftermath -- was rapidly getting worse as our false R started to unravel.

So basically I'm wrestling with the question of whether my drinking falls more or less squarely into the 50% of our marital problems that I get to own -- and thus isn't to blame for the affair, which WW gets to carry on her side of the ledger -- or whether things are more complicated than that.

Similarly, although this may be even further off-topic, I'm also trying to pull my head out of my ass a bit to look more squarely at the damage I did and just how bad my problem was. Even in recovery I think I've had a tendency to minimize all that a bit, partly because I was lucky enough to escape really horrible consequences like DUIs and domestic violence and partly because once I decided to quit, I didn't find it that hard to follow through. No cravings, withdrawal, whiplash mood swings or what have you. I still get -- I don't know if it's the right word, but "nostalgic" is what first comes to mind -- over the thought of a nice microbrew or a glass of pinot noir, but that's about it. Like I said, I'm lucky -- and while it might be better to be lucky than good, I'd like to take the best stab I can at being both.

Let me pause there and see if this is a subject folks here are basically OK with before I carry on any further.

[This message edited by survivorman at 2:06 AM, August 28th (Sunday)]


Me: BH; Her: Slime Mold; DS7
D-day #1 6/09; D-day #2 8/10; divorced 3/12

After what you did I can't stay on
And I'll probably feel a whole lot better
When you're gone


Posts: 489 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: survivorman
healingtree
Member
Member # 15467
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, August 28th (Sunday)

njgal...

We have four kids, blended family, yours, mine and ours - all school age.

When I talked to him about getting help, he listened but said nothing.

I don't think an intervention would work, especially right now because he has recommited to not drinking, and he sees no problem with that.

It is possible that he is contemplating help, but I cannot read his mind.

He is trying very hard to change externally. Thing is, unless he can find some happiness or peace INTERNALLY, he is still going to end up miserable.

He has issues from his past that he has never ever dealt with, and while it is so obvious to me where the dots connect as far as his past is concerned, he chooses not to look and just press on.

When we get a quiet moment, I will let him know that while I am glad that he is back on the wagon, and can see his efforts, what I really want is for him to find some happiness in his life, and that can't start until he can learn to face everything and recover.

Thanks you guys...

HT


FBS 1st D-day 7-11-07, 2nd DDay Post-Breakup in 8-12
HIM - Doesn't Matter Anymore
The only thing we can change about the past is how we look at it.

Posts: 8329 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Here and Now
healingtree
Member
Member # 15467
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, August 28th (Sunday)

survivorman - first congrats on a year of sobriety, may those years multiply.

Read your profile and its sounds as if you and your WW are moving as well towards a solution as far as S/D as can be expected.

If you are wondering whether you should own part of the problems in your M -well, if the drinking was a consistent problem that your W tried to address with you, and you ignored it, then yes, your action helped to disassemble the M.

Is your drinking a reason to have and A? No. There is no way to justify an A, because if one gets to the point where they are attracted enough to another, IMO, that they would step out of the M, then they should seek help or leave.

There are a lot of shades of grey in this story. For instance, to go through custody issues and NOT be battling over your thoughts of her mental instablility, and her NOT bringing up your addiction issues, it seems that while both of you are struggling with some issues, that you both are concerned more for your child's welfare, which is a good thing.

As far as your drinking, own it. You child deserves a sober parent. And you deserve a better life than following an addiction can offer.

Good luck to you both, and keep up the good work being DAD...most important job you will ever have.

HT


FBS 1st D-day 7-11-07, 2nd DDay Post-Breakup in 8-12
HIM - Doesn't Matter Anymore
The only thing we can change about the past is how we look at it.

Posts: 8329 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Here and Now
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, August 28th (Sunday)

Survivor-If you are asking if your alcoholism had a negative impact on your wife and marriage?
well, the answer is yes.
I was very disappointed and angry and sad and disconnected from my husband due to his alcohol use, depression, overall grouchiness etc.
I often do think now that I look back that I was very vulnerable and if the right situation came along may have been tempted into an affair. But, knowing myself I do not think that I would ever have been able to continue a LTA. I think I would have asked for a divorce.
In fact, I did ask my husband for a divorce two years before d-day! He was smack dab in the middle of the LTA and his depression, drinking, and overall bad attitude was at it's peak.
He convinced me to hang in there...his attitude improved a bit but he kept on drinking and unbeknownst to me the affair continued so when d-day hit- I kicked him out and filed for divorce.
A big reason for me changing my mind about D was his sobriety.
The fact that for the first time in our married life he was making a genuine effort by going to IC 2x per week for 6 months and the 1x per week for another year and most importantly going to AA (starting with 90 meetings in 90 days). I have to admit...that change in attitude on his part definitely got my attention.
And gave me hope for my marriage.

Healing tree- Please urge your husband to go to IC or AA.Stopping drinking is not enough. That's called a 'dry drunk'. They need to do a lot of internal work to get to the root of their problem.
Same is true for infidelity.
Just stopping the affair is not enough. The WS has to go to IC and get to the bottom of the reason for their actions etc.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:51 PM, August 29th (Monday)

healingtree,

I agree with njgal. Stopping drinking is not enough. There has to be a change in behavior. Without the change in behavior, they are still an alcoholic, just not drinking. They are still not accepting responsibility for their actions. It'll always be something or someone else that is the problem, not them.

Take care of you. That's all you have control over, not what he'll do.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
survivorman
Member
Member # 29515
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, August 30th (Tuesday)

@healingtree, @njgal480: Many thanks for your notes. One year down as of yesterday, many more to go. Actually, it's been a real revelation to step outside of my drinking. It's to the point now where I sometimes wonder why it was so damn important to me in the first place. That's an insight I surely could have used some time ago.

healingtree wrote this:

If you are wondering whether you should own part of the problems in your M -well, if the drinking was a consistent problem that your W tried to address with you, and you ignored it, then yes, your action helped to disassemble the M.

I'm not really wondering about that. The drinking was a problem -- that's clear now. It had definitely started to weigh on my wife, even though we were both big drinkers when we got married. She started to cut back several years ago; I didn't follow suit. And while it took an unconsionably long time for me to realize it, by the time I was ready to quit, it was quite obvious that my efforts to simply "control" my drinking were failures. There would always be some excuse to tie one on, which would lead to more habitual drinking, then hiding the habitual drinking, and so forth right back down the rathole.

I understand that. I own it. That's been a big part of my recovery.

So my question really wasn't whether my drinking problem caused harm to my marriage -- it's obvious that it did. But around here, our standard formulation is that BS and WS each own 50% of the pre-existing problems in the M, but the WS gets full ownership of the affair. And I find myself pondering from time to time whether things are that simple in my situation.

I mean, I'm still basically OK with the following take on my marriage. While we had problems -- my drinking included -- they weren't anything we couldn't have solved had we really tried. But my WW just gave up on us without any real effort, after which she let down her boundaries and got herself into a fantasized EA and all sorts of subsequent weirdness. After a year of attempted R in which we basically failed to address fundamental issues (my fault as much or more than hers), she up and decided she was done -- but only after going wayward in her thinking again, resurrecting her old bill of complaints in which I was to blame for most everything that went wrong in the marriage, attempting (again) to contact her fantasy OM under false pretenses, etc.

There was a lot of blameshifting going on there. But I have to admit that I'm still struggling to reconcile who I was back then with who I thought I was, and that has me rethinking just how much damage I did while drinking. I've tended to minimize that, because I wasn't a horrible and abusive drunk, I managed to maintain firm boundaries regarding other women (though I had terrible boundaries when it came to alcohol), I was a good dad to our son, I wasn't running up huge bar tabs, I didn't get into fights, I held a good job, etc.

And yet I still drank every day -- sometimes late at night, very occasionally in the morning, often before coming home from work and usually alone. It sapped my lucidity and my energy, and while it seemed to make it easier to deal with the stresses of life, it was also robbing me of my awareness of the present. And, of course, every so often I'd go overboard and create an embarrassing incident. I have no doubt at all that I was a handful to live with.

That said, I still think it's interesting -- though only in a clinical sort of way by this point -- that WW has next to no interest in my sobriety. A year ago, just prior to the separation, she claimed that she couldn't believe I'd follow through with quitting because "we've tried this before" -- when in fact I'd never embraced abstinence before. It makes a huge difference. (The old saying that "it's easier to stick with 'no thanks' than 'I'll have just one'" was certainly true in my case.) In fact, about the only time she's even acknowledged it was in making a (justifiable yet selfish) decision that really complicated my attendance at the regular recovery meeting I now convene.

If that all seems like a muddle to any of you who are still reading -- well, welcome to my world. On the one hand, I've long assigned very little weight to WW's stated reasons for leaving the marriage (including, hilariously, her insistence that she "couldn't trust" me because I had the audacity to snoop on her email, journal and Internet use during her EA). That includes her complaints about my drinking, which have been inconsistent and often situational.

On the other hand, I'm gradually reassessing my own culpability during the marriage as I gain some distance from it. Which is leading me to the uncomfortable realization that perhaps WW wasn't as completely full of shit on this particular point as I'd previously thought -- even if this was really was still a problem that we really could have gotten our hands around had we both worked it hard enough.

Sorry for the long-winded post. Epiphanies don't come quickly to me.

[This message edited by survivorman at 1:52 PM, August 30th (Tuesday)]


Me: BH; Her: Slime Mold; DS7
D-day #1 6/09; D-day #2 8/10; divorced 3/12

After what you did I can't stay on
And I'll probably feel a whole lot better
When you're gone


Posts: 489 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: survivorman
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, August 30th (Tuesday)

Survivorman-
First of all I want to congratulate you on your sobriety. It sounds as if it was not easy for you to get to where you are now.
I am sending good thoughts your way and hoping that you will continue to stay strong in your sobriety.
Do you attend AA?
My husband did the 90 meetings in 90 days and then continued for 5 days per week for years...now he goes at least once a week and does check in with his sponsor.
I think AA was key to so many positive changes in my husband. As you know stopping drinking is not enough. You really do have to change your whole way of thinking, your way of looking at the world.
That is another way that AA has helped my husband.

Your drinking pattern sounds very much like what my FWH was like-a functional alcoholic who held down a professional job, still interracted with the kids etc. but would have occasional binge drinking episodes...

I'm sorry that your WW is not more enthusaistic about your sobriety.You would think she would be thrilled if only for the children.
Perhaps she does not quite believe that the sobriety is real and lasting.
Hopefully in time you will be able to show her that your sobriety is real and that in addition to stopping drinking you have been working on yourself to become a better person.

My husband's sobriety was the single biggest reason that I reconsidered D and agreed to try to R.
He made such huge strides that he definitely got my attention eventhough I was heartbroken over the LTA.

Another reason for your WW's indifference could be because she is still in contact with the OM and she is still in the 'fog' of the affair? Is the OM married?
At this point she may think that she has this back up plan and so cannot invest herself in trying to save the marriage.

I am sorry that she is not interested in saving the marriage. Maybe this will change...maybe not.
But, I hope that whatever she decides it does not impact your sobriety.
Try to do it for yourself, for your children. You deserve a , a more authentic life better life.

AA could probably help you deal with all of this.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
survivorman
Member
Member # 29515
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, August 30th (Tuesday)

@njgal: I don't go to AA -- I don't think it would be a good fit for me. I am active in a secular recovery group, and I'm responsible for convening a weekly meeting.

Frankly, whether my WW is enthusiastic about my sobriety or not is beside the point so far as I'm concerned. I only mentioned it because I think her silence makes an interesting contrast with the level of unhappiness she expressed about my problem just before leaving and subsequently at a mediation session where we squared off over my drinking problem on one hand and her batshittery on the other.

In other words, I think she milked my drinking for all it was worth as an excuse for her own behavior, just as you'd expect from a wayward. Which does not for one second mean I didn't have a real problem, just that she's an unreliable narrator on the subject.

I doubt WW will ever want to recover the marriage. I think she's deeply broken and hasn't come close to figuring out what went wrong. I obviously didn't make things easy on her, but I also didn't bail on the marriage or go looking for answers outside of it.

Anyway, I decided early on that I wasn't getting sober for WW, but for myself and my son. And that hasn't changed. So whatever she does or doesn't do, I'm secure in my decision and happy with it -- because it's mine.

By the way, there apparently never was a real OM. Well, there's a real guy -- a college BF of WW -- and he did correspond secretly with WW for several months. But the conversation wasn't remotely romantic, although it was intimate enough for my unmoored WW to project romantic intimations onto it, to announce she wanted to leave me for him, and to spend months stalking the guy to see if he was going to leave his wife so they could be together. OMW knew all about it and says there was nothing to it; so does OM (for whatever that's worth). It was quite the picnic.

Also, for whatever it's worth, my drinking never came up when she was categorizing my faults during the EA itself. That only emerged a year later when she finally did bail out. Go figure.

[This message edited by survivorman at 7:24 PM, August 30th (Tuesday)]


Me: BH; Her: Slime Mold; DS7
D-day #1 6/09; D-day #2 8/10; divorced 3/12

After what you did I can't stay on
And I'll probably feel a whole lot better
When you're gone


Posts: 489 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: survivorman
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, August 31st (Wednesday)

survivor-
Glad to hear that you attend a regular support group and that you are involved in convening the group.
Hopefully, you can continue to peek in herenow and then and offer some insights to the spouses of alcoholics.
Glad to hear that you sound so strong in your sobriety.
You are doing it for the right reasons.
It really does sound as if your WW is in a real fog. That she romanticized something that never existed...which would explain why she vilified everything to do with the marriage. So sorry to hear that you do not think that there is hope for reconciliation.
I have a friend who blew up her marriage right around her 50th birthday.The final kicker was a chance meeting with her junior high school crush! yes... a total crazy teenage fantasy thing.
Did she have some legitimate complaints? yes?
She ended up divorcing and destroying her family. Five years later is she happy? not really. She has been considering R with the ex but seems mixed up in her priorities etc. Sad situation.

Sometimes that mid life crisis really does wreak havoc on people's lives.

Wishing you all the best.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
survivorman
Member
Member # 29515
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, August 31st (Wednesday)

Many thanks, njgal480. I appreciate the sounding board; I think it let me figure out a few things that might otherwise have taken a while longer on my own.

If I can be of assistance to others, I'll gladly do what I can. I'll do my best to pop by from time to time.

I hope your friend finds her way clear of the MLC. I suspect that's not a bad description of what my STBX went through, either.


Me: BH; Her: Slime Mold; DS7
D-day #1 6/09; D-day #2 8/10; divorced 3/12

After what you did I can't stay on
And I'll probably feel a whole lot better
When you're gone


Posts: 489 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: survivorman
Newtwood
Member
Member # 21154
Helpless  Posted: 9:54 PM, September 5th (Monday)

I wish there was a way that you could tell who was logged in. I really need to talk to someone who understands this.

I've pretty much avoided posting on SI for about 3 months now. The drinking has gotten so much out of hand and I now live just a mean drunk. This is how he chooses to handle his STRESS.

First he was addicted to food, then work, then online porn/sex; now it's booze.

People advised me to attend group for spouses. I went through this 2 times over. My Grandfather was an alcoholic and so was my Mom. Now my H.

It's ruining the relationships with his/our family. It's only a matter of time before it creeps into his work/professional world.

Funny thing is he admits it, regrets it, talks about it, but won't or can't do anything about it. Wants to keep it a secret (where have I heard THAT one before!!!?)

I barely came out alive from the infidelity thing. I can't save him. I don't have energy enough to keep ME going some days!!!

I just feel lost.


Faithful Wife of 24+ yrs: Me
WS: Him
OW(s): AFF Skanks/GRANDMOTHERS!!!

Status: Struggling Everday to
Survive

what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another-Anatole France


Posts: 2181 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: North Carolina
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, September 5th (Monday)

(((Newtwood)))

You can't save him. It's his problem, not yours. You can't save him from himself, only he can chose to make the changes in his life to make it better.

Helping hide it only enables the behavior to continue. That's enabling. It allows the alcoholic to avoid facing the consquences of his actions.

You mention he knows it is bad, but continues. That is an alcoholism, it is a very strong disease. But, it is a disease that there is a choice with. Yet, it is his choice to make.

Words are meaningless with an active alcoholic. He can tell you what he he thinks you hear just to get you to stop pointing out his problem to him. It's actions, not words that count. Until he seeks AA or counseling, it won't get better. Very few can change on their own and get into active recovery. Some never do... Others can stop drinking although they never change the alcoholic behavior... a dry drunk. Yet, if he does hit his bottom, gets help, and make the changes, there is hope.

You need to get help for you. That is where you have control. Not over what he'll do, but what you'll do. Get into IC, Al-Anon, your clergy, or close friends. Don't go through this alone because of his fear of shame or yours. Take care of yourself first and foremost. You are not alone.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 12:24 AM, September 6th (Tuesday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, September 8th (Thursday)

Newtwood-
Sorry to hear that you are dealing with so much right now.
You cannot force him to get sober but...you can help him to hit bottom by not enabling him in his addiction.

Don't cover for him, don't try to hide the drinking problem...let him see what the consequences are.

That being said...I agree with Betrayed...you need to do what you can to help yourself. Go to IC , ALANON...maybe reading some books: Marriage On the Rocks by Woititz and Reclaim Your Family From Addiction by Naaken are two books that I found helpful.
Also Hazelden.org is a great web site for books and pamphlets on addiction and support for the families of addicts.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
luvedmypbear
Member
Member # 25690
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, September 13th (Tuesday)

I just wanted to poke in and say hello, I really need to make it to an AL Anon meeting, just difficult with childcare these days.

Quick Background:
I'm actually D from alcoholic fwh but have had a renewed relationship that led to an accidental pregnancy of which I am about 14 weeks along, so I do see him regularly and love him dearly to this day. He had been doing well, attending meetings, etc., but the pregnancy derailed him.
It was his birthday yesterday and he is staying with the kids and I temporarily. We blew out candles, had a special dinner and nestled in for night time stuff. He and I watched part of a movie which he asked to pause because he wanted to meet the guys for a beer.

I was surprised, but didn't say anything and didn't expect to see him again last night. He stumbled in at 3 AM, I stupidly asked him where he had been since where he said he was going closed at 12. He told me it was none of my "f---ing" business and passed out on the floor.
I moved his heavy ass so the kids didn't have to wake up to that but was devastated.

I know he is sick and I know this should not even hurt me. I have made a decision this morning to move the 2000 miles back home with my parents. I am so disappointed, after all of these years that there he is acting the same way, after the past 2+ yars of work.

I can't wait until he wakes up and leaves.

Anyway, just needed to cry it out on here so I have the strength to not say anything to him.

And to remind myself, this person is not worthy of my love and he has no power over me.


D-Day July 14, 2009
3 kids (B7, G6, B2)
BW, 37
D and healing, one day at a time

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Sep 2009
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, September 13th (Tuesday)

(((luvedmypbear)))

Sorry you are going through this.

If not the pregnancy it probably would have been something else derail him. Do not take it upon yourself or your unborn child the responsibility for which you have no control. It was his choice to drink, no one or no thing "made" him do it. He alone made that choice to leave last night to drink and would have done so whether or not you objected.

Do what is best for you and your children. With an alcoholic even in recovery there are no assurances that they will not drink tomorrow, only they did not drink today. What has happened with you is what I fear with my xWW, that she will relapse because she has not done the work in her life to help her achieve sobriety, not merely stop drinking.

You are right in a person only has the control/power over you that you give them. Take control of what you can in the situation, what you will do. Your WS may or may not hit bottom and correct his life. That is his to own and his to do. Good luck with your life and in making the choices that are best for you and your children.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
tryingtwo
Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, September 13th (Tuesday)

luvedmypbear
You can not love him enough to make him sober. I know it is hard to hear that and I know you have tried as many things as you can, but you cannot make him sober or stay sober by loving him enough, or loving him more.

Your children do not need to see their father this way or have this in their life. You do not need it either. Until he gets sober and stays sober there is nothing now you can do but protect yourself and your children from any further hurt.

Sober he is probably the man you have always loved, but he is not sober. He doesn't appear to want to be sober. It isn't a measure of how much he loves you or the kids, it is because he has a disease. Any time you get between him and his bottle he will strike out at you. He will protect it before he will protect you are the kids. So please do the hardest thing you will ever have to do. Let him go. Let him hit the bottom without you there to cushion it for him. It is what I had to do and it hurt something awful, but it had to be done.

I know first hand how hard these choices are. With a baby on the way, even harder for you. My heart reaches out to you and my prayers.

(((((((luvedmypbear))))))))

[This message edited by tryingtwo at 9:43 AM, September 13th (Tuesday)]


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
luvedmypbear
Member
Member # 25690
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, September 14th (Wednesday)

Thank you betrayed and tryingtwo

I made it to a meeting last night and am already feeling better. I so appreciate your responses. It is the disease and I was able to handle the situation with appropriate detachment. I have a lot of packing to do.

Thanks again!


D-Day July 14, 2009
3 kids (B7, G6, B2)
BW, 37
D and healing, one day at a time

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Sep 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, September 18th (Sunday)

luved-
Just wanted to reach out also.
I am so sorry that you are going through this .....again.

Try to focus on yourself and your children for now. What is best for all of you?
Take care of your health.
Try to keep going to ALANON meetings. If you can go to IC.
Moving back home is not a sign of weakness. It shows that you have made a decision that you believe is best for yourself and your children.
I hope that your family will surround you with the love, care, and understanding that you need right now.
Keep up going to the meetings when you get there if you can.
Your FWXH has not hit bottom yet. He may never 'get it'.
In that case he will be missing out on life, missing out on a relationship with his children.
For now...you need to take care of yourself and your children.
If it takes moving cross country to do that...so be it.
Maybe..when that happens..he will begin to see the light.

Take care.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
healingtree
Member
Member # 15467
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, September 18th (Sunday)

Big hugs to all struggling...just remember its not you.

Letting go
One day at a time.


FBS 1st D-day 7-11-07, 2nd DDay Post-Breakup in 8-12
HIM - Doesn't Matter Anymore
The only thing we can change about the past is how we look at it.

Posts: 8329 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Here and Now
luvedmypbear
Member
Member # 25690
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, September 18th (Sunday)

Thanks so much njgal480,

It's coming together slowly and the kids and I will be on our way soon.

hugs to you too healingtree and everyone else out there.


D-Day July 14, 2009
3 kids (B7, G6, B2)
BW, 37
D and healing, one day at a time

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Sep 2009
phoenix_vs
Member
Member # 29193
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, September 18th (Sunday)

((((bear)))

You'll always love the man inside, the man he could be if alcohol was not in the picture. Take care of yourself and children. You're doing the right thing. I know how you feel.


I'm not sad that you lied to me. I'm sad that I can never believe you again.

Well, I'm sad that you lied to me, too.


Posts: 371 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Great Falls Montana
luvedmypbear
Member
Member # 25690
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, September 18th (Sunday)

Thanks phoenix

I appreciate your understanding and kindness


D-Day July 14, 2009
3 kids (B7, G6, B2)
BW, 37
D and healing, one day at a time

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Sep 2009
crickett
New Member
Member # 33393
Default  Posted: 1:38 AM, September 19th (Monday)

My alcoholic husband of decades walked out on me and is with an alcoholic women who is ten years younger than me with no kids.

That was over a year ago, he took himself and his toothbrush.

He does not call, answer his phone, call our college age kids. When some serious things happened, he did not call back.

I can't take it anymore, I stay up until 4 am I try to sleep when he is awake, I call crisis lines all night, cry all the time.

I finally left him a message a few weeks ago...I can't take this anymore I don't want to live like this anymore, please file you can have everything I want nothing. What did he do he did nothing.

He told me once that our years met nothing to him.

I am destroyed, I am in hell.

I am really sorry this happened to you.

I don't think my post is helpful. I want to say I am so sorry. I hope you find solace and peace and I am so sorry. I don't know what to say, I am so stunned myself.

I remember my husband how he was before the drinking got bad, he really is a different person now. I feel your exH must have changed very much from his drinking. I am very sorry for you and your children, and him. I feel very sad.

That expression...things won't change unless something changes

When you go through your day, watch the trees and the way the wind hits the leaves, and birds. When I see waves at the beach or a river with rocks, I think, those waves or this river has been here such a long time, before any people were here, and there it is, solid there steady.

I am sending you a big (((hug)))
Please take care

[This message edited by crickett at 5:30 PM, September 19th (Monday)]


me 55
WH 57
We have two grown children


Posts: 46 | Registered: Sep 2011
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, September 19th (Monday)

crickett-
I am so sorry for your pain.
What an awful situation.
Have you gone to ALANON?

Addiction can change a person.It sounds like it has changed your husband.

For him to totally forget about his family, his children, and to say those awful things to you ...it shows how toxic his world has become.

All you can do is to try to stay strong and healthy for yourself and your children.

Are you in IC? Have you seen a doctor to ask about meds for anxiety, stress, and depression?
I needed to do both. That was how I survived d-day...and I had a remorseful FWH. I can't imagine what a wreck I would be if he had behaved like your husband has.
Please take care of yourself. Your children need you.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
healingtree
Member
Member # 15467
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, September 24th (Saturday)

Once again, all I can do is give a big hug to everyone here, and offer understanding.

Update on my FWH...he relapsed over a month ago after four years sober (but not recovered). We talked and I told him I was not travelling this road with him again.

He said he fell off the wagon, but would get right back on it. He refused to go to AA or find any other outside help, thinking he could do it on his own.

This past week, he got off work early and said he was going to go fishing...didn't hear from him again and so around 8pm I started calling his cell phone incessantly. Finally I got a call back - it was his "buddy" from work, saying that he was hammered, partying, and in no condition to drive, so he was just going to stay there for the night.

Eventually my H made it home that night, but I was done. I said nothing, nothing nothing what was there to say? He knows.

When he woke up in the morning, he asked me where he could find an AA meeting.

He went to his first meeting last night, (small area, he tried to find another the night before but no one showed up, I know I saw the parking lot!) and says he will pursue sobriety, and continue with the meetings.

My hope level is down fairly low right now as far as it working out, but if he does continue with the program, and gets involved with it and the people who are also in recovery, well, I will stay and see what happens.

There are a lot of problems in us getting along as a family. But looking at it now, I see alot of that has to do with him being a dry drunk for four years. I told him that his resentment of us is hurtful, and it stems from the fact that we stand between him and what he wants - the freedom to pursue his choice to self medicate and dive into hell.

He can't have it both ways...a family, a wife, a life, and then be party boy on the side. I told him if I was standing in the way of what he wants, I will leave.

I am ready to leave if I have to.

It has to change or I will.

I know that I cannot cajole him into doing what I want, he has to do it for himself. Which is why I say very little at this point in time, and let him make his own choices.

One day at a time.

We will see.

Thanks for your continued support, and hoping you all find some peace today.

HT


FBS 1st D-day 7-11-07, 2nd DDay Post-Breakup in 8-12
HIM - Doesn't Matter Anymore
The only thing we can change about the past is how we look at it.

Posts: 8329 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Here and Now
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, September 24th (Saturday)

(((healingtree)))

I hope it work out the best for you, whatever that may be. It sounds like you have realized what you have control over and that should help you do what is best for you.

Take care of you.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, September 30th (Friday)

healingtree-
I'm so happy that your husband finally decided to go to AA.
I have said many times before that my husband getting sober, going to AA and going to IC was crucial for us to be able to reconcile.
I do believe that just stopping drinking is not enough. You're right about the dry drunk.
You truly have to change your whole way of looking at the world and get rid of the toxic thinking to have true recovery.

Same with infidelity. Just stopping the cheating is not enough. You need to do a lot of work to try to change the toxic thinking that caused you to behave in such a destructive manner.

Tell your husband not to give up trying to find an AA meeting.My FWH went to quite a few different meetings when he did the first 90 meetings on 90 days and he said that each meeting had a different feel to it, different people attending etc. He did find one meeting where he feels especially comfortable.
Hopefully, your husband will find a good match also.
I do feel that going to AA, listening to all the stories, dealing with all the issues that addicts and alcoholics have-dishonesty, lies, selfishness, etc. applies to infidelity as well as alcoholism.
And can help both of you recover from all of this.



Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
whyreally
Member
Member # 33292
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, October 3rd (Monday)

MY WH is too an alcoholic... Last year he was sober for 7 months... it was great... but he planned and planned to drink at a christmas party and my life has been sooo hard ever since... I just wish he would leave... even though it would break my heart.. I stood by him through rehab,... Er visits... his never ending tantrums.. holes punched in the walls... thinking if only the house was cleaner... if only I could love him more... what if I pay all the bills and he just has "fun" money... that leaves me with a whole hunk of nothing but hurt.... lots and lots of hurt!!!!


ME 30
WH 31
5 young kid

been together 13 years.
Dday: 2 many 2 count
Needing the support to go through with the divorce that I need to have


Posts: 157 | Registered: Sep 2011
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, October 4th (Tuesday)

(((whyreally)))

Sorry for your hurt. Alcoholism is a disease of the family, hurt all involved, not just the one with the disease. Yes, if only you had kept the house cleaner, and all the other things, he would have still found a reason to drink. The alcoholic will always find some reason that "makes" them that is not their fault. They had to because of you, their job, the phase of the moon, something that takes the responsibility away from them.

You can't make him change. You can't make him sober. that is something he has to do for himself.

All you can control is what you will do. Take care of yourself and your children. Support your WS by not enabling him. Have you tried al-anon? While it is not for everyone, there you can realize you are not alone.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
whyreally
Member
Member # 33292
Default  Posted: 6:47 AM, October 7th (Friday)

I have not tried alanon yet but our MC thought I should atleast try it!!! So I do want to go... we only have a few meetings a week around here and it is hard to find the time... and you are righht.. he always has some reason he "needs" to drink :(


ME 30
WH 31
5 young kid

been together 13 years.
Dday: 2 many 2 count
Needing the support to go through with the divorce that I need to have


Posts: 157 | Registered: Sep 2011
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, October 9th (Sunday)

Two years ago today my xWW relapsed and disappeared with some guy she met in detox.

I don't have the children this weekend so I got up and drove to the beach to watch the sunrise. Today is a new day, a new beginning, on the day that started the journey to ending my marriage. Today I will focus on Forgiveness.

Hard to forgove while drama continues with court and lawyers over her wanting more visitaion with her ultimate hope of getting custody. Hard to forgive while continuing to battle the insanity of a dry drunk who is still pushing out her problems on you.

I may forgive which is to end the hurt for me, but not to say what she has done is ok, or that I want her in my life again. The forgiveness needs to be for me. So I can move on.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Crushed1
Member
Member # 6449
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, October 9th (Sunday)

((((Betrayed)))), what a peaceful way to start your day with a sunrise at the beach! I find the beach at sunrise or sunset to be so refreshing and a place I can gather my thoughts.

((((crickett)))) I am so sorry. Hope you can find peace.

(((((everyone here)))))

I believe my H has reached the point of no return. Said at work all he thinks about is when he gets off so he "can have a cold one". PATHETIC. It is just pathetic. I am out of energy to help and I can't really it's HIM who has to make the choice.

I don't say anything to him anymore. He knows the drill. He knows if he gets caught it's going to cost us $$$$ and he's still paying off his last DUI fines to the state so he can get his license fully restored. If that's not insanity, I don't know what is.

I've told him to counter the thoughts of 'wanting a cold one' and to say instead to himself, "no, I don't want one, I want a nice iced tea or a soda" or anything but alcohol. It worked for a while but he's too weak to fight the thoughts. It's consumed him.

So sad he's missed out on our children's lives, his memory is full of false 'memories' because he's been drunk for 10 years. A freaking decade!!!

Only a few times did he try to get sober during this time. But excuses came back by the boatload, 'I can have just one', 'I can handle it', 'Everyone else does'...you've all probably heard the SAME crap spill from their mouths. But 'one' ALWAYS turns into four or five...

I am trying to find peace for myself. I wish a decade ago when I was alarmed by his sudden increase in alcohol that I'd have taken a firm kick-ass stand against it. I didn't know the depth of depravity alcohol brings some people to.

But I'm no longer going to blame myself for not recognizing signs and symptoms. I had my own stuff to deal with, health issues, a full time job... And taking care of our three children was the most important thing to me and I stood alone in that and so much more for this past decade.

I have come to see his absolute selfishness. His filthy A was about him, his drug and alcohol use are all about him. What a WASTE of a life...


~~"You can't run away from yourself"!!! Me to my H when he descended into adultery insanity.
~~Prov.15:13 "By sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken"
~~"The day breaks-your mind aches"
~STRENGTH~PEACE~HOPE~FAITH

Posts: 9614 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Texas
ANA70
Member
Member # 33512
Angry  Posted: 2:10 PM, October 10th (Monday)

My husband was a functioning alchoholic through most of our marriage, most of the time I didn't know he was drunk (or cheating).

By the time I found out about one affair he was just about defeated. It seemed as though he felt a burden had been lifted and he wanted to tell me everything.

He went straight in to AA and does both group and IC. I think he just has an addictive personality, (Porn Women, Alchohol, Work) you name it he does it too much.

He was sober for about 16 months and going to about 8-10 meetings a week.

One day I get a text from him asking if I want to drink with him that night? I could have killed him. So I had to confront him and sure enough he was drinking for about a week. I don't know how I missed it. Then I find he is texting OW.

I have been to alanon and I did enjoy it. But the thing that came across most to me is there is nothing we can do for them. They have to want to stop. All alanon can do is keep our sanity and teach us to deal with our feelings.

His sponsor gave me a reflections book about living with an alchoholic and some of the readings start about growing up with alchoholic parents, which I did not do, but I can see how I react or try to take care of him the same way.

We are trying R but some days I find it so hard I am in the middle of 5 love languages, it is a good book, but forgiveness is so hard.

I hope some lost will try Alanon it does help me.

Hugs and best wishes,
Ana

[This message edited by ANA70 at 2:14 PM, October 10th (Monday)]


Me BS40 WH39
1st DDAY 7/09
2nd DDAY 9/11
Married 18 years trying R
1 Princess 15
Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

Posts: 151 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Neverland
Dallas2
Member
Member # 28362
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, October 10th (Monday)

I belong here to. My IC told me to go to alanon not because he was an alcoholic but to help build me up and become stronger.

My Bipolar son who has also been addicted to drugs and alcohol told me my H is a functioning alcoholic. So I have looked it up and done research on it and yes I believe he is to.

He was raised in an alcoholic home and admits to abusing it when he was younger. Now he is defensive when how much he drinks is mentioned.

At first I thought he was drinking so much because of how guilty he felt having had an A and lying about it. Actually that was pretty silly of me. He drinks what because he likes to and he drinks more than I know.

Now I have to rethink about the future. First he cheated, lied, second he keeps secrets even now and last he an active alcoholic who I believe is getting worse.

So now what?


Me

Posts: 794 | Registered: Apr 2010
ANA70
Member
Member # 33512
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, October 10th (Monday)

Dallas2 so sorry to hear it.

It is easy for us to be in the dark. Much harder to come out and start seeing the light.

I think Alanon will help you if nothing else it is another group of support.

I hope you get some support and your H stops drinking.

What I find hardest is to calm down I like a glass of wine but I try not to drink around my H, does anyone else ever want to scream I am not an alchoholic you are, so why cant I drink.
?

[This message edited by ANA70 at 5:57 PM, October 10th (Monday)]


Me BS40 WH39
1st DDAY 7/09
2nd DDAY 9/11
Married 18 years trying R
1 Princess 15
Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

Posts: 151 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Neverland
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, October 10th (Monday)

I'm lucky in that I was never much of a drinker to begin with- one or two glasses of wine tops-so when my FWH got sober it was not hard at all for me to stop drinking.
I did it out of a kind of solidarity with my husband.

Getting sober for my husband actually worked to help us reconcile after d-day.
It was a real big issue for us pre d-day. I was shattered to find out about his LTA and I filed for divorce at one point but I ended up withdrawing my divorce complaint mostly because of his efforts to stay sober.
It was also helpful because he distanced himself from all of his toxic drinking buddies-all who encouraged the toxic behaviors that included the LTA.

So..getting sober for him also meant a new beginning for us as a couple.
We used to have separate friends-he had his drinking buddies but now we hang out with couples that are friends of our marriage and are supportive of our reconciliation.

Ana- I totally understand getting stressed out and needing something to help you calm down.
I have looked for many different ways to de-stress since d-day.... what has helped me?-IC, meds, yoga, taking long baths...I'm not kidding...there were nights right after d-day when I was running a bath at 2AM because I couldn't think of anything else that would calm my nerves.
Is your husband still drinking or was it just a one time thing ..that he fell off the wagon.
I don't know how I would react if that happened with my husband.
I know that it is very common for alcoholics to get sober and then have set backs.
SO far...my husband has remained sober since d-day. It's over 4 and 1/2 yrs.

And you're right-ultimately we have no control over them. The infidelity proved that.
However, we do have control over ourselves.
I'm guessing that if my husband started drinking again that I would probably leave. One slip up is one thing but if he gave up on being sober that would be it.

His sobriety is the main reason that I reconciled after the infidelity and he knows that.
He promised me two things... to never hurt me again like he did with the LTA and to continue in AA for the rest of his life.

Does your husband have a sponsor in AA? Has the sponsor been involved with him?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
ANA70
Member
Member # 33512
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, October 11th (Tuesday)

With my H it was a one time thing. He was working a lot and skipping some meetings so he took over being in charge of coffee for his favorite one so then he knows he has to be there.

I like the bath idea. I do love to read in the tub.

Thanks for the idea.


Me BS40 WH39
1st DDAY 7/09
2nd DDAY 9/11
Married 18 years trying R
1 Princess 15
Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

Posts: 151 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Neverland
Dallas2
Member
Member # 28362
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, October 11th (Tuesday)

I like the bath idea too!!! Then the realist in me thinks higher electric bills and will be shriveled for life.


Me

Posts: 794 | Registered: Apr 2010
heart_in_a_blend
Member
Member # 24191
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, October 11th (Tuesday)

I've been married to my functioning alcoholic for 38 years this November. Most of that time I spent in denial. Always defending him against my family or making some excuse for him being such and asshole.

When I first met him he was a happy drinker that liked to socialize, now he just drinks himself into an angry stupor. It sad that everything we do has to be centered around his drinking. We no longer go out to dinner because by dinner time he is to wasted. And his mood is so foul that I don't want to sit across from him anyway. It's been a very lonely existence which is my own fault for not leaving him when I was so much younger and healthier.

I tried Ala-non for about a year. I guess I just got tired of listening to the same stories. Or telling the same stories. It gave some very good insight and helped me to realize I wasn't crazy. Because alcoholism is pure crazy making.

Alcohol is his first love. Not sure where that leaves me.


In life, much of what one grieves one never had.

Posts: 3036 | Registered: May 2009
Mlisa88
Member
Member # 33589
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, October 11th (Tuesday)

Support group or a place where they can all say nobody underdstands me but another addict so I can do as please? I never got amends from my alcoholic husband either. I thought that was an important step... guess not. Dont beat yourself up get help. Talk to someone it really helps. Find a counselor.


Married 23 years Me Bs 45
Him scum bag 49
Just found out October 5,2011
Divorcing

Posts: 135 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: New York
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, October 11th (Tuesday)

IC was crucial for me too.
I started IC right after d-day and ended up going for about 3 yrs. (Luckily I have good medical insurance as was able to go for so long).
and about the baths.... another positive is that helps if you are someone who tends to snack when you are stressed or upset etc.
Taking a bath helped with that too... I couldn't snack while in the tub and once I got out I was all relaxed and clean and ready for bed.

about the expense of all that hot water etc.
well..what I always say post d-day...for those that are trying to reconcile...imagine how expensive divorce will be..just maintaining two separate households on the same salaries...so whatever you need to do to help you heal from the infidelity etc. is cheap in comparison.
So..post d-day I became a very high maintenance girl-manicures, massages, baths...anything to help me destress and maintain my sanity.

Dallas, heart in a blend- sorry to hear that your husbands are still drinking.
I know that we are powerless over their addiction but... what do you think would be hiting bottom for your husband?
what do you think that it would take to get him to seek out help for his addiction?

For my husband it was my discovery of the LTA....
I kicked him out right after d-day and we were sparated for 6 months before we R.
But, honestly, I think it was seeing my shocked and shattered reaction to the revelation of the LTA that was his bottom.
I think it forced him for the first time to take a long hard look at himself and to really see how low he had sunk.
I think for all of his adult life he kept fooling himself (and others)...not admitting to how bad his addiction really was.
he was also a functional alcoholic -held a professional job, had a family, a house etc. so he appeared like he was ok...meanwhile he was drinking every single day.....and it was affecting his life in many negative ways.
the LTA with a married co-worker drinking buddy was the cherry on top.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, October 13th (Thursday)

Been in court today dealing with alcoholic X. She thinks just not drinking makes everything fine. The GAL said that in her report. X has no job, not really looking for ine, not seeing IC or her addiction specialist anymore, goes to AA as needed and she's fine. GAL reported she downplays the impact her alcoholism has had on children. She was a blackout drunk that did things with children that put them at risk. The children are in counseling for depression and abandonment issues from when she ran out with the OM on a drunk. Then chose the bottle and this guy over hopes of having a whole family again.

Judge ruled the X's petition was denied to change visitation. Ruled that not drinking was not a substanial change enough to merit unsupervised visits. Wanrted to hear fro pros that she was doing the right things. Essentially, there is no change from what it was.

I opposed the change to unsupervised visits as it has no safety net. 16 months is an accomplishment I won't take from her. Yet, she has demonstrated no responsibility. That she can handle stress. I don't want my children around when, not if, she relapses. I don't think she has done the work on herself to say she's not a risk. She needs to be doing all she can to change the behaviors that led to her alcoholism.

Testified that she ended it with OM back in July. She figured out that they couldn't support one another in recovery. Two years almost to figure out what docs and everyone else had been telling her.

What an ordeal this is. It has been a long and costly journey. It is emotionally draining to be battling the mother of the children to keep them safe both physically and emotionally.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
heart_in_a_blend
Member
Member # 24191
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, October 13th (Thursday)

betrayed: Sorry you are going through this, but you are doing the best thing for yourself, and your children.

Maybe even your X, although I doubt she will see it that way.

Stay as strong as you are.


In life, much of what one grieves one never had.

Posts: 3036 | Registered: May 2009
MaleableReality
Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, October 13th (Thursday)

I have been posting in the NPD thread for a while, since my marriage fell apart a few years ago. But I think things are getting so much worse with my ex and his drinking and I'm kind of at a loss what to do. I haven't read all the posts yest, but I did see this in one of the posts here and it really made me think that perhaps I'm still enabling him:

You cannot force him to get sober but...you can help him to hit bottom by not enabling him in his addiction.

I guess I wasn't even certain he IS an alcoholic. We were married 17 years. He's always enjoyed his cocktails, expensive scotch, nice vodka, quality beers. I guess I thought that he really just had refined tastes and an appreciation for spirits. I'm not much of a drinker - a beer here and there or a glass of red wine. The only alcoholics I'd ever seen were depicted in movies drinking Boons Farm out of a paper bag.

But, recently, since he moved out three years ago, I've been thinking about it a lot. We always spent about $250 to $300 per month on alcohol. And I don't really drink. If I questioned it, he'd say we had friends over or something, or he brought that expensive bottle of whatever to whomever, don't you remember? I shrugged it off. After all, I'd seen him drink A LOT and not get drunk.

But when he was packing to move out, I found a bunch of empty rum bottles in his bookcase, hidden behind books. Cheap rum, really cheap rum. That's not like him. He always bought top of the line. Whose could these be? It definitely concerned me. I asked him about it and he said they'd been there for years. He didn't throw them away because he didn't want to hear me bitching about how much he drank (I'd never done that - it didn't make sense).

After he moved, I found the same label bottles in the attic, basement, garage, and the backyard behind a tree. What the hell??!! After he moved, it seemed he smelled like alcohol ALL the time. People who hadn't seen him in a while would remark on it the next time they saw me. The next door neighbor asked if he had a drinking problem because the smell struck her when she got within ten feet of him. Did I think he had a drinking problem, yes. Could I prove it? No. He denies it. What else can I do. He ALWAYS smells like it, and never appears altered, even when he'd pick up the kids for visitation. I can't stop him from seeing his kids. And I'm not even sure he's drinking.

Then, last year, he lost his job accidentally on purpose. I had to pick up medical benefits in addition to allowing him to pay less child support. Then, this summer, he was watching the kids during the days while I work. At pickup a few times, no one answered the door so I had to go in. I found him sound asleep by the back door - like not sleeping, like so dead asleep that I had to shake him to wake him up. Once he was awake, he spent the next five minutes looking me right in the eye and babbling about stuff that happened ten years ago. My 10 year old saw this and once we were in the car she revealed that he does that a lot and sometimes she can't wake him up when he "naps." Then yesterday, at 12:05 he told me he'd pick up our oldest at girl scouts. But he didn't show. Hours later he showed up to pick the kids up for his visitation but of course, I had them with me since I'd had to run out of my office to get my daughter at girl scouts. He came up with some ridiculous story about his car being broken down, a dead zone, couldn't make phone calls, was waiting for a tow truck, but couldn't answer questions about how he could call a tow truck but not me to make sure I picked up our daughter. I said fine, you were broken down and couldn't call. Prove it. Tow truck receipt? Receipt for repairs? When I question anything he says he blows up instead of answering my question. It's all subterfuge and obfuscation.

What I'm worried about is that this is not even rock bottom. And I don't want my daughters in the way when he hits it. What can I do?


Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:55 PM, October 13th (Thursday)

(((MaleableReality)))

Sorry you are going through this. Alcoholism affects the whole family, not just the one with the disease.

It may not be his bottom. Some never do hit "bottom". You have found out that alcoholics are not limited to the bum with a bottle in a bag. My xWW drank expensive flavored vodka. That way she hid the smell and convienced herself that she wasn't that bad since it wasn't cheap. Many times it is all about rationalization of the behavior. "I'm not that bad..." by the alcoholic and their family gets sucked into it also. But, it doesn't change what they are.

What can you do? Do what you have to in order to protect your child. If it means withholding visits when there is a risk, I'd do it. Think of the regrets later if something were to happen and you don't.

Take care of your self and your child. You can't save him. Only he can do that, but you don't have to let him take you down too.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
NaiveAgain
Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, October 14th (Friday)

If your mate can drink a large quantity of alcohol and not show any real effects, that means they have built up a tolerance from drinking A LOT. At the least, that is alcohol abuse.....

Maleable Reality- talk to a lawyer. Your ex is putting your children at risk, and that is neglect. He needs supervised visitation for now, until he can get his drinking under control or completely abstain.

My XSO was having the blackouts also. We would go out at night, I would have 2 drinks, he would have a few pitchers and a few shots....and then he would come home and pass out on the floor. He was unwakeable. He is getting the tingling and numbing in his extremities. He has memory loss. He has black outs where he does not remember what he did the night before, or even where he went.

XSO is full fledge alcoholic. And had a mini stroke. Knows he is killing himself. And keeps doing it. He is unable to make me a priority because his first love is his chemical addictions. He does not feel like dealing with responsibilities any more because he is either drunk/thinking about getting drunk/recovering from getting drunk. That is why he is my ex. It sucks, I did really love him. But I love myself more.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14915 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
MaleableReality
Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, October 14th (Friday)

Thanks betrayed1012. I find that I am always second guessing myself. Am I crazy? Am I persecuting him? Am I really just being spiteful? The thing is, I am just NOT a drama person. I am always happy, would rather be laughing than frowning, and my kids and I are perfect when he's not around.

Ever since he left, my life is the way I want it, EXCEPT for the constant worry about the next time I set him off, or whether he's actually WITH the kids.

For over a year now, when he picks the kids up for his nights/weekends, he's usually getting them from the sitter so I often don't even get to see him. I told him last night that from now on, he's not allowed to pick up from the sitter so he has to wait until I get home and if I smell alcohol on him at ANY point from here on out, he won't be taking the kids. I'm done enabling him.

I'm making an appointment with a lawyer to find out what my options are and if I need to file something with the court to get that restriction entered into our agreement. Even if it just stops him from drinking in the afternoon before he comes to get them, that will be something, right?


Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
MaleableReality
Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, October 14th (Friday)

@NaiveAgain

Thanks. I am going to speak to a lawyer. I know he loves his kids, and THEY know it. But I do believe he loves himself and his drinking more. He lives with the girl he left me for and she's there a lot. In fact, the kids talk about what they did with her more than their father when they return from visits. It just kills me that I don't know if she's there all the time or if they're with him alone while he's in a stupor. Are my suspicions and the stuff I've witnessed enough to get supervised visitation?


Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, October 14th (Friday)

Maleable Reality,

My xWW has supervised visits. My xWW had progressed to a blackout drunk with a huge tolerance for alcohol. Her lawyer advised her to agree rather than having it ordered. She's been 16 months without drinking and wants to get it changed. We went to court yesterday. The judge said that just not drinking was not enough to make it a substantial change. He wanted to see she had a plan to remain without drinking rather than the haphazard approach she's taken thus far... a dry drunk with no change in behavior. ADDED Judge wanted to see the supporting testimony of a professional that she has it under control. Since she is not in counseling and goes to AA "as needed" the judge was not swayed.

Since my X agreed I am not quite sure how to go about it. Definitely see your lawyer. One lawyer told me that IF I knew she was endangering the children then I was just as guilty as she was. Before I'd risk losing the children to social services I had to do something. When she left on a drunk with the OM I took control. I would not let her be alone with them and I made it understood I'd call social services on her if I supected she was drinking around them again during her visits. I'm not sure if I could, but the bluff worked. When she relapsed from that point on she would go off and not be near the children.

You can't control him. You can only control what you will do. Take control of your life and do what you need to for you and your child.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 9:48 AM, October 15th (Saturday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
MaleableReality
Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, October 14th (Friday)

You're so right Betrayed. If anything ever happened while they were with him, I couldn't live with myself. I've spent too much time feeling like I have no power. My 10 year old daughter told me that one day over the summer he was so sound asleep she couldn't wake him up. She was just trying to ask him how many minutes to put the hotdogs on in the microwave so that she could make lunch for her and her 6 year old sister. She SHOULD NOT BE DOING THAT by herself.

By this point, he was running out of money after being out of work almost a year and wasn't paying much child support. Every penny went to the mortgage and bills. I work full time and he was the only person I could count on the "watch" the kids. I just didn't know what to do.

She did OK on her own, but it would have been very easy for her to have made a mistake that caused a problem. She was proud of her ability to take care of lunch for her and her sister and I was proud of her too. But it made my heart sad that she had to do it herself because her father was passed out.

Someone mentioned memory issues in an earlier post, can't remember who (no pun intended) and that immediately made me think about all the times he's driven me CRAZY not remembering things. I almost pulled the plug on Wednesday night visitation a month ago because he keeps forgetting to make sure she's got her homework. That equals insane stress for her and I the next morning and its the epitome of an example of how much he just doesn't care about anyone but himself.

Grrrrrrr.


Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
MaleableReality
Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, October 19th (Wednesday)

Cross-posting in NPD thread as well. I am here at work, running over in my mind all the ways that visitation pickup can go tonight. My exNPD-alcoholic has successfully triggered all my childhood abuse issues and I'm basically shaking. My girlfriend asked what it is that I think it going to happen - that he might attack me physically? No, not really, I mean he never has but I do think the potential is there. I actually welcome that because while it would suck, it would create a piece of evidence that there is a problem which I could point to rather than what I currently have, the "your word against his" situation I find myself in. I don't know what has me so freaked out. I think it's just knowing that I will have to endure the heaping pile of emotional abuse and shame he's going to pour all over me. Even though I know he's wrong, even though I know I am doing what I have to do to protect my kids, I know that the things he says are going to hurt me. He's so very good at it.

Maybe he will show up smelling like a brewery, which would be ridiculous since he knows that I'm serious and he won't be taking his kids if he does. Maybe he'll get so angry when I tell him he's not seeing them that he flips out and does physically attack me. Then when I call the police they will not only arrest him for assault, but for DUI too.

I'm so tired of thinking about this.


Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 10:26 PM, October 19th (Wednesday)

(((MaleableReality)))

So sorry you are going through this. I have no advice for you other than do what you have to in order to protect yourself, physically and emotionally. If you don't feel comfortable can you have someone go with you? If you have the children with you try to make certain they are sheltered from anger between the two of you. Children tend to take blame for why their parents are fighting.

Take care,

betrayed1012


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
MaleableReality
Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, October 21st (Friday)

The last few days have been just absolutely horrible. I'm tired to my core of thinking about this. Wednesday night's visitation did not happen. He arrive and exhaled booze on me so I told him to leave. He went to the police station and offered to take a breath test at the same time as I was calling to report him driving under the influence. So the officer asked if I would be satisfied, and let him take the kids if he passed a breath test. I said absolutely. So he said he'd do that and call me back. Ten minutes later, the officer called back and said my ex refused the test after all. Of course he did. Duh! So yesterday I went to the court and filed for a modification to our visitation agreement. I don't want him driving with my kids and if they are going to visit him at his house, another responsible adult has to be present. I don't know if I have enough anecdotal evidence for the judge to do ANYTHING frankly, but I'm going to try.

Tonight he showed up with his girlfriend driving. I'm fine with that. But my oldest daughter did not want to go. She told me some of the stuff that happened over the summer and she said she does want to see him but she doesn't want to go to his house for the weekend. But I had to make her go. Thank you very much for the stake through the heart

I pulled him aside and tried to get him to understand that I am not trying to hurt him. That we all care and just want him to get help. Brick wall.

Now, in order to keep from climbing the walls, I'm going to head out to my first al-anon meeting. At least I can admit when I need help.


Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, October 22nd (Saturday)

Maleable-

So sorry for what you are dealing with right now.
Your children are so young.
I would be terrified about leaving them alone with an alcoholic!
There must be laws in place to protect your children in situations like this. A lawyer in your state would be able to let you know what they are.
At the least- supervised visitations.
His episode at the police station may actually help you. They must have a written report describing what happened that night and his refusal to take a breathalyzer etc.

You may need to go to court to protect your children.
Their safety has to come first.
And..who knows? Maybe losing joint custody and/or visitation rights could help him hit bottom? maybe he will begin to see that his life has become umanageable and that his drinking has become a huge probelm.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
MaleableReality
Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, October 23rd (Sunday)

Thanks njgal480. I did file and request an emergency hearing. I will get the report from the police department. I did speak with a lawyer and the lawyer says that it is your word against his unless you have some evidence. The police report will help. And the things my daughter has told me about his mental state over the summer and the fact that he is basically in his room "working" while they are visiting. I don't know if that is enough to make it clear that there's a problem. I have a bunch of people who would happily testify that they've smelled alcohol on him when he's picking up and dropping off my kids. But still, that's not evidence. We'll see on Wednesday. But I've gone to al-anon and will continue to go and will get my daughter's some counseling. That's my biggest concern, that they understand that daddy isn't the same person right now. They've been feeling bad that he doesn't want to spend any time with them. And you know as well as I do if they don't get some education about this disease, they're going to end up marrying one themselves.

Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, October 24th (Monday)

Can you take the children to see a child psychologist? or a family therapist?
They could use someone to talk to process everything that is going on.
And....the psychologist could testify on behalf of what is best for your kids in terms of visitation etc.
Just some thoughts.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
MaleableReality
Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, October 24th (Monday)

Yes, I am taking them to the therapist tomorrow. I am pretty nervous about court. Not sure what I'm nervous about. I mean, I'm doing what I have to and it's not like I enjoy going to court, wasting money I don't have and taking MORE time out of work. But the way he makes me feel, like a little child whose been bad. I don't know if that's normal dealing with an alcoholic. He's so overbearing and keeps sending me messages about how wrong I am. He's making me second guess myself. But I KNOW I'm not wrong.

Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, October 24th (Monday)

(((MaleableReality)))

I know it it rough going to court to protect the children from the risk the other parent poises. I just found out today my X appealed the ruling that the judge denied her petition for unsupervised visits.

As with my X, your WS is going to continue to shift the blame to you. All his problems are caused by you and everything else in his life. That's the alcoholic pushing the problems out to anyone who will accept them. It's far easier than looking in the mirror the see what is truly the source of their problem.

Hang in there. You are doing the right thing for your cildren. Get them into counseling. It has helped my children adjust.

Take care,

betrayed1012


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
MaleableReality
Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, October 28th (Friday)

Thanks Betrayed1012 and everyone who helped me these last two weeks. I get overwhelmed thinking I have to deal with this for the next 12 years (and beyond)!! Court went pretty well, considering that the ink was not dry yet on our "amicable" divorce so the judge was a bit peeved to see us. I didn't have much physical evidence that he drinks so I am surprised he was able to do anything frankly. But he said he does make orders like this all the time and had no problem doing it, but it would apply to both of us since he had as much evidence that my ex drinks as he has evidence that I do (I don't). So the order is that there is no drinking within 24 hours of picking up/driving the children and no drinking at all during visits. So, for me that means there are two days a month that I could have a drink if I want. LOL. No sweat off my back. Losing that one or two beers a month or glass of wine now and then doesn't matter. But we'll see what happens with him. I don't think he'll be able to do it, but perhaps hearing the judge say that we'd meet again in December and if things weren't improved, "loss of visitation is a possibility." He loves his kids, the threat of losing them should help him see things more clearly. I hope that he takes this opportunity to clean up his act. I am not going to doubt, I'm going to hope that he does. And I'll be hyper vigilant from this point forward. I hope I don't have to go further than this.

Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, October 29th (Saturday)

Maleable-
It sounds good. Maybe the judge's ruling and comments will have an impact on him.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you and your children.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
IslandToby
Member
Member # 33807
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, November 2nd (Wednesday)

Hi everyone. I am brand new here, I just happened to stumble upon this website last week and was reading a bit before I decided to register yesterday.
Today I was hoping to find someone's story whose might be similar to mine. I'll try to make this as succinct as possible:
My husband and I have been married 20 years. He is an alcoholic who was able to hide his daily drinking until a few years ago when in a short amount of time he developed diabetes, got very ill, and his drinking got even more out of control. We, as a family (we have 4 kids 14yrs to 23 yrs) confronted him and he went to treatment the first of 3 times. In Dec of 2009 I discovered text messages that were obviously to and from another woman.

For a long time (like a year) he insisted that it was just "talk" and it was just someone he had met in treatment the first time around and said it would end. In October of 2010 he went back to treatment and while he was gone I checked cell phone bills and discovered he had been texting and talking to this person again. I called the number and when the OW answered with her name I realized who she was. She was his girlfriend when we first met. He broke up with her to get together with and marry me. When we were first together this woman used to try to contact him over and over, sent letters saying she was pregnant, told me that they were still sleeping together.
Long story short, I made the discovery that my husband has been cheating on me with this woman off and on throughout our 20 year marriage. I really had NO idea, none. In fact, I was completely positive that my husband would never be unfaithful. Boy was I wrong.

The past year of dealing with his infidelity, his alcoholism and his depression (which came on the heels of the addiction and diabetes diagnosis) have been sheer hell. He tried to commit suicide at the end of May, as well. He hates himself.

Now we come to what I'm dealing with now. All kinds of things on different levels. She is texting him again and he did not tell me, even though I asked him to tell me. He has not responded to the texts and just deleted them as they came in but I'm hurt and angry that he didn't tell me about them. He continues to struggle with his drinking- sneaking around to get money and drink in secret. He thinks that since he just deleted the messages, that is enough. He has never given me the details of their long term affair. When I ask him "why"? he just says he doesn't know but that its over and he loves me and that I need to stop "hanging it over his head".

Oh, I am sorry. I am rambling without a real point or question but thank you for letting me have a place to put this out there.


Me:49 BS, WH:51 alcoholic M: 20 yrs- 4 kids ages 14 to 24 DDay: Jan 2010 sexting with someone "Real DDay" Dec 2010- the truth of an occasional f&#k with ex-gf, 12 times in 20 yrs.

Posts: 102 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Washington state
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, November 3rd (Thursday)

IslandToby,

It is hard to believe how we live with people who are able to hide their alcoholism, even from the ones that love them for so long. With me, it was partly my own disbelief that she was an alcoholic. I did not want to accept what was going on and she did hide it so very well until it reached a tipping point at which she no longer could hold it together. While my xWW hooked up with a fellow alcoholic she met at detox, the behavior that allowed her to do so was there for a long time. The alcoholic thinking that it is not their fault or responsibility is ingrained.

It is the same as those who lack fidelity, but without the physical addiction that accompanies alcoholism. Always someone or something that made them cheat or drink.

You are correct in he doesn't like himself. He attempts to numb these feelings with the A and the drinking.

It is good that you see you need help in dealing with his alcoholism. It is a disease that affects the whole family, not just the person with the disease.

All you have control over is what you will do, not what he will do. You can't make him get better, that is his to decide to do. Take care of yourself.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
MaleableReality
Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, November 3rd (Thursday)

((IslandToby))

I also could not see the problem drinking. It wasn't until he was moving that I found the bottles hidden everywhere. If I had not found them, I wouldn't have known it was a problem, though it's gotten so much worse in the 3 years he's gone that the smell of alcohol would have tipped me off.

I am watching his current girlfriend/fiance go through the denial that I was in right now. She can't see it even though when I told her about finding the bottles 3 years ago, she admitted then that she'd been concerned about his drinking.

I need to be in Al-Anon meetings once a week at least but find it difficult to get there because of the kids.


Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
MaleableReality
Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, November 3rd (Thursday)

@betrayed1012 - you sound so together about this. How have you gotten there? I always feel like the ground is shifting under my feet. And my concern for my children is just earth shattering. I feel like I ruined their lives giving them an alcoholic father.

Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, November 3rd (Thursday)

You're never safe from the disease no matter how long you are sober. My WH has been sober for 20 years but about 18 months ago the disease took him in a new direction. He'd stopped working his AA program and going to meetings and started watching a lot of internet porn and masturbating. That led to craigslist hookups with strangers (cross-dressers) and the shame from that led him into an A with his ex-wife (recovering heroin addict).

He's back to AA and working the program and I'm in Al-Anon. I have no idea if we can save the marriage, but I love him enough to try.

AA does work, but YOU have to do the work. And keep doing it.


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 916 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 12:51 AM, November 4th (Friday)

MaleableReality,

You ruined their lives how??? Again, what do you have control over? Not what the alcoholic does, that's for certain. Your children may have an alcoholic dad, but you didn't give him to them. He chose to try to numb what was gnawing at him with alcohol and it took over his life. You did not do that to him or your children. And, the choice to stop using alcohol and to fix what is broken inside him is his to make. You can't make that for him. Until you detach from him and his problem, his alcoholism, you will always feel as though the ground is shifting under you. Doesn't mean you don't care about him, only that you've realized you can't control or fix him.

CheaterMagnet is right in you will never be safe from their alcoholism. It is a progressive disease that has no cure. From what I've seen it can be managed, if the person realizes that they have no control over their drinking and does the work to change the behavior that led to the drinking to numb their pain in the first place. Accepting responsibility and changing behavior seems to be the how the alcoholic can keep from relapsing, which can come 1, 4, or even 20 years after stopping as CheaterMagnet indicated.

That's what scares me about my xWW. I don't see the change in behavior. I see the alcoholic who still blames others for their problems rather than looking in the mirror for the real source. Sure she's not drinking for now, but how long will she stay dry? I don't feel she is sober as that would denote a changed behavior. That's why I am in court over changing visitation, because I know if she doesn't change, it is when she relapses, not if. And, my children don't need to be near her when her world collapses again. Her alcoholism has done enough to them so far.

As far as having it together, it is easier to sound that way than to do it. I've been almost 2 years in IC with a counselor who specializes in addictions so they can help me understand and comprehend alcoholism. Two years of trying to convince me the blame that my alcoholic pushed out on me is not mine. Two years trying to convince me that it is not my fault and I had no control over her alcoholism. I've been to Al-Anon for the support of others who live the the mayhem that living with and loving an alcoholic can bring. And, I still struggle with what could I have done different. It is hard to break the codependancy that is so easily developed when involved with an alcoholic. The feeling you have to save them, when in reality that is theirs, not yours to do. I come here to read about how alcoholism and infidelity has affected those on this forum and how they have handled it. I've gotten great support here and hopefully given some.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 12:56 AM, November 4th (Friday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
IslandToby
Member
Member # 33807
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, November 4th (Friday)

Thank you, Betrayed and Malleable.
You are both saying things that I've felt, too.
I hate that my kids have had to deal with having an alcoholic dad. My 19 yo daughter really suffered during her senior year of HS as all of his problems came boiling out. The 3 oldest kids knew he had a drinking problem and had realized it years before. The youngest was shocked when we told her he was an alcoholic. She had never really seen him drink as he was always hiding it. She just thought he was really moody. We had to tell her that he was drinking about 2 cases of beer DAILY, every day, starting on his way to work at 6am, drinking all day on the job, he is self employed in construction, and sneaking in a few more out in the garage at night when he "went out to smoke".

I'm in Al-anon, although I confess that I've not been to a meeting in months. I wrote out my 4th step stuff but still have not read it out to my sponsor... I'm really avoiding it, I guess.

Last night (Thurs) was horrible. Even though I had confronted him, on Wed, about his text messages from her and how he had promised to be honest and tell me when she tried contact, yet hadn't told me. Even though I had confronted him and told him that I knew how he was getting his money for beer (I'll tell you below) and still drinking. He promised to be honest, yet again, from here on out. But, it was another empty damn promise.

How he is getting money for the beer just shows the level of his addiction and sickness. Since he has no access to checks or debit cards and I hide my wallet, he has been purchasing copper pipes on his Lowe's card and then driving to the metal recycle yard and turning them in for cash. At a HUGE LOSS, of course. He buys about $60 of copper and turns it in for about $17, enough for a 12 pack of beer.

So, yesterday I was gone all day and when I got home I could smell the alcohol on him. I checked in his truck and found the receipt from the recycle yard. I asked him if he had gone to the recycle yard, just to give him a chance to be honest, and he said NO! He was acting all offended that I would even ask him that after he had promised the day before to stop. When I told him I knew that he had gone, he just shut down.

He started talking about how he doesn't deserve to live, and hinting that he would try to harm himself again. Its all a ploy to deflect the blame and the shame that he feels. He is never going to recover unless he finds his honesty. All I can think is that he had a pretty awful childhood and that is the pain that he is trying to numb with the drinking and the affair. Getting honest would mean dealing with that trauma and he is just too scared to do that. It breaks my heart because he really is such a good man. A good man with such a horrible disease...

I don't even know what to do now. In Al-Anon, the saying is "I didn't cause it, I can't control it, I can't cure it" and I am reminding myself of that. Also just trying to take things one hour at a time right now.

Thanks for the support.


Me:49 BS, WH:51 alcoholic M: 20 yrs- 4 kids ages 14 to 24 DDay: Jan 2010 sexting with someone "Real DDay" Dec 2010- the truth of an occasional f&#k with ex-gf, 12 times in 20 yrs.

Posts: 102 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Washington state
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, November 4th (Friday)

I just need to vent...My payment from my xwh for Oct. hasn't arrived. We are NC and he has supposedly been dry for the last 2 years. Anyway, when I got to mailbox I got very stressed. Tried calling his bank to see if they could tell me the check mailed and they can't. I am trying to remember everything I have learned from Alanon, books, here, etc. I am probably going to a meeting tomorrow but somehow I don't feel like I belong anymore since it's been 4 years since my S from xwh! I never thought I would still be feeling the effects. Thanks for letting me vent. I know everything will be fine but it's like a mini relapse for me, if you know what I mean. I am trying not to think the worst like he's relapsed or his OW has influenced him to violate our court order. BTW, I found out he's living with her by accident when my L sent me some paperwork that xwh was dragging his feet on. Feels good to vent here. Thanks for listening


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, November 4th (Friday)

(((Why??)))

Sorry. It sometimes doesn't take much to remind of the things we hoped to leave behind us. It's hard knowing that it is a constant possiblity, as CheaterMagneet pointed out. Let your L deal with it, if it is indeed a problem.

Take care of yourself and vent away here all you need to.
Edited:
Oops, technically there is no venting in this forum. So I guess just express your concerns and people will offer support based on what they've been through...

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 3:33 PM, November 5th (Saturday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
MaleableReality
Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, November 5th (Saturday)

Thanks Betrayed... that was the slap I needed. I know in my mind that I didn't do this to my kids. My heart just hurts for them and every new thing that comes out of my daughter when she's talking about daddy's drinking just makes it worse. Course, what I should be focusing on there is that she IS talking, she feels comfortable telling me and her counselor about things, and when she does this I can hug her and tell her it's not her fault and that her daddy really really loves her.

I went to my second Al-Anon meeting last night. It was a step meeting - fifth step. I am so new I don't even understand what that is, but I hear people talking about how they'd gone through this step and the changes it made in them. I hear them saying when the "have program" they react differently to things and they are able to see more clearly, their own and others' behavior, and recognize their own faults. I told the I want this program they speak of. LOL. I long for the day that an email from him about some paperwork he needs won't steal my serenity.


Posts: 64 | Registered: Jan 2009
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, November 5th (Saturday)

Thanks betrayed1012.

The check arrived today dated Nov. 2nd which leaves me wondering why since it was supposed to be for Oct. Now, I have to make sure the Nov. pymt. arrives and they aren't trying to trick me out of a month. There is an option for electronic payment that I am thinking of so I don't have to wait for a check. Have IC next week so I will talk to her. Too tired after running around all day to make it to the meeting.

Hope you and everyone else is hanging in there.


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, November 6th (Sunday)

Island Toby-
So sorry for all that you are going through.
My husband was a lifetime functional alcoholic. I knew he had a drinking problem but didn't know how bad it was until after d-day.
For my husband to agree to go to AA for the 90 meetings in 90 days and to continue going 5 days per week for over 3 yrs... I realized how difficult it was for him to stop drinking and how much he needed all of that support.
We are almost 5 yrs post d-day now and he continues to go to AA one or two days per week.
He also went to IC for about 1 and 1/2 yrs post d-day.
And we went to MC for 6 months.

Me finding out about the LTA was my husband's bottom.
I think he had been lying to himself for so long about what a great guy he was that when the reality of the situation was revealed to everyone (and I mean everyone because I totally lost it and told everyone about the affair) he finally was forced to take a long hard look at himself and his toxic thinking and behavior.
I kicked him out of the house and filed for divorce.
We were separated for 6 months before I let him move back home.
The main reason that I agreed to reconcile was his sobriety and participation in AA.
He has promised me that he will continue to go to AA forever as part of his amends to me.

The MOW was an alcoholic co-worker/drinking buddy.

Some books that helped me understand things better were:
Marriage On the Rocks by Woititz ( I found out in that book what I wish I had known 30 years ago.... that alcoholics almost always end up having affairs with another alcoholic)

and two books by Craig Naaken-
Reclaim Your Family From Addiction and The Addictive Personality


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
phoenix_vs
Member
Member # 29193
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, November 11th (Friday)

(((island toby)))

I don't have any great words of wisdom, but your story is very similar to mine. I just want you to know you've been heard, and that someone cares.

njgal, thank you for the book titles. I'm stuck on the plain of lethal flatness, and I need some info.

for the last year and a half, I have been 180. He finally noticed a few months ago, and he has made some changes, none of them involving alcohol, though. Funny, with a habit you've developed, it's been difficult responding to him, since I've formed the habit of being pleasant, while ignoring him most of the time.

One thing that is not going to change going forward, is that I will take responsibility for myself first. Time has shown me that I cannot ever depend on him for anything.

Hugs to everyone here.


I'm not sad that you lied to me. I'm sad that I can never believe you again.

Well, I'm sad that you lied to me, too.


Posts: 371 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Great Falls Montana
IslandToby
Member
Member # 33807
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, November 12th (Saturday)

njgal480- thank you for the book rec. I'll look it up.
My husband has done 90/90 multiple times but will drink on the way there or on the way home. We live in a remote area and I've heard from other friends in the program that they all know he is still drinking but lying about it- they can smell it on him. I made the mistake of telling him that about 6 months ago and now, when he does go to meetings, he drives about 45 mins away to stay away from the area people that know him. I'm sure that those people in the away meetings feel the same way.

He needs to get a sponsor and work the steps but, I think, he is terrified of pulling all his crap into the light of day. He claims that his biggest problem in AA is believing that there is a HP. I do love him so much- he is such a good man, with such a horrible problem.

His current way of getting money for beer illustrates the depth of his addiction. He has no access to money, checks, or debit cards because of his addiction. He does, however, have a Lowes and Home Depot card because he is self employed in construction. I discovered that he will buy $60 of copper pipe, cut it up and drive a few blocks to the metal recycle place and turn it in for $15- enough for a 12 pack of beer. We are struggling, pinching pennies, broke all the time and he spends $60 on a 12 pack? It makes me physically sick.


Me:49 BS, WH:51 alcoholic M: 20 yrs- 4 kids ages 14 to 24 DDay: Jan 2010 sexting with someone "Real DDay" Dec 2010- the truth of an occasional f&#k with ex-gf, 12 times in 20 yrs.

Posts: 102 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Washington state
bent44
Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, November 14th (Monday)

Wasn't quite sure where to post this, but thought you guys might have an opinion or two....

Backstory: XWS has been gone for a year now. He has visits with DD5 3x/wk. He is averaging about a 60% in his ability to show up. Failed drug tests, visits to prostitutes, etc. keep him away. The latest is he got into a brawl and got his face beaten to a pulp, and a concussion. He is 39 yo, for goodness sakes. He is not allowed to see her until he is healed.

So, here is my question. He is alcoholic/druggie/SA. I am thinking of getting his friends together for an intervention. I am really torn about this as I don't know if I really want to involve myself with him to this degree, but hate seeing any human, much less my daughters father sink so low. His own father left when he was 10, and died of alcoholism when he was 12. History seems to be repeating itself.

What do you think, guys? Let the karma bus keep running him over, or try to help?

PS- I am a bit of a control freak, and a gullible loving gal to boot, so really doubting myself with this one.

Any opinions or insights or 2*4's welcome.


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.


Posts: 626 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, November 14th (Monday)

bent44,

Sorry you and your DD are going through this. Neither of you deserve it.

I don't know about interventons. I doubt you would be the one to do it. First, you mention you tend to control. Any addict/alcoholic aways push back at feeling someone else has control even if they can't manage their life. Thin line between helping and enabling. Even if you didn't try to control, your WS would probably feel like mine and rationalize that you were as an excuse.

As sad as it may be, until an addict/alcoholic reaches a point at which they realize they have to change or they will die, there is little or nothing others can do to make them. He may dry out for awhile, but long term sobriety requires a change within that person. A change in the behaviors that allows them to not accept responsibility for their actions and fate. Some never come to that realization. But, as one counselor said to me, there is always hope. Hope that they reach that conclusion before it is too late.

Maybe an intervention would work, but only if the person wants it to. It may be able to help him, but it won't make him change unless he wants to. Can you be involved? Probably not. Have you read "Codependant No More" by Beatty? It may help release you from feeling the need to save your WS and help you realize that is his to do.

All you have control over is what you will do, not what your alcoholic WS will do. It is most important you protect the DD from his disease as she has done nothing to deserve what it is doing and has done to her. Take care of yourself and your DD.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 11:03 AM, November 14th (Monday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
bent44
Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, November 14th (Monday)

Thank you betrayed 1012,

I would not do it alone. Would hire a pro and have all of his (ex)driends involved. I just don't know if I even want to bother.

Am leaning towards no, but will consult with my counselor tomorrow to see what she thinks.

Thank you again! And, yes I own Codependent No More- It is part of a whole shelf of healing books....damn him.


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.


Posts: 626 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, November 14th (Monday)

Island Toby-
Sorry for what you are dealing with... geez... buying copper and selling it at a loss to pay for his alcohol habit....and he still has not hit bottom?
Have you ever considered an intervention?

Bent- I think an intervention is worth a try.
For your DD's sake.
Do his friends and family know how bad things have gotten? Would they agree to an intervention?
Not sure if you should be there or not.That depends...on how you think your ex would react. Would your presence at the intervention give him an excuse not to agree to go to rehab? he could say you are controlling him?
But...you could take the behind the scenes role of organizing and planning the intervention.
IMHO I think its worth a shot.

phoenix- I know what it's like to be stuck in that lethal flatness. I was there for many years. I detached from his alcoholism and focused on myself and my kids and being the best person I could be....he made some changes over the years but never stopped drinking.
And then during the LTA he become even more depressed, detached, grouchy and remose-drinking everyday by himself....I had no clue that his detached behavior could be a symptom of an affair!
But, that was when all hell broke lose in our house! I kicked him out of the house and filed for D. He was finally forced to take a real good look at himself. And he hit bottom.And he got sober.
And since then everything has changed.
I wish all of your spouses could understand how wonderful their lives could be if only they could stop drinking, using drugs etc.


[This message edited by njgal480 at 7:19 PM, November 14th (Monday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
IslandToby
Member
Member # 33807
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, November 15th (Tuesday)

Island Toby-
Sorry for what you are dealing with... geez... buying copper and selling it at a loss to pay for his alcohol habit....and he still has not hit bottom?
Have you ever considered an intervention?

njga- BTDA and have the treatment certificate to prove it. This was done before he went into inpatient treatment the first time. He has been to inpatient programs twice and spent over a year in outpatient "relapse prevention"- just "graduating" from it last month. He drank all the way through it.

I think he is just at the point where he is drinking enough to maintain some level of alcohol in his system- its not even daily and he is no longer drinking to visibly drunk anymore and to his alcoholic mind that means he can drink like a normie. Of course, a normie wouldn't be doing the crazy stuff he is doing and a normie doesn't regularly drink at 6 am, or in his vehicle, or all the other stuff.

Back to the idea of intervention. He has stated that the first time he went to treatment (after our intervention) that he felt forced into it. He got about 38 days under his belt that time. He also said, during the 2nd inpatient that he was there for HIM, but now says he felt forced into it again. He made it about 40 days that time

If you are familiar with AA meetings, when they read the How It Works section, it starts with this:
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.

Sadly, this is my husband. He is incapable of honesty at this point of his life. He has spent his entire life lying to make himself look better, lying to keep out of trouble, and lying to himself about the events of his childhood. I think the pain of honesty scares him and that breaks my heart.

His birthday was yesterday. I left for some errands and know that he immediately left right after me and went to the metal recycler because he had a bunch of old stainless and brass in his work van when I left and when I came home it was gone. I'm so sad


Me:49 BS, WH:51 alcoholic M: 20 yrs- 4 kids ages 14 to 24 DDay: Jan 2010 sexting with someone "Real DDay" Dec 2010- the truth of an occasional f&#k with ex-gf, 12 times in 20 yrs.

Posts: 102 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Washington state
bent44
Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, November 15th (Tuesday)

Sadly, this is my husband.
He is incapable of honesty at this point of his life. He has spent his entire life lying to make himself look better, lying to keep out of trouble, and lying to himself about the events of his childhood. I think the pain of honesty scares him and that breaks my heart.

Island Toby,

I am so sorry you are dealing with this pain. Loving an alcohlic is just so....jeeze, i need more cofee to find the right words.

I just wanted to thank you for the above quote. Sadly, I think we are in the same boat. Your words heve helped me today. I am sending hugs your way.


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.


Posts: 626 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
IslandToby
Member
Member # 33807
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, November 15th (Tuesday)

((bent44)) I'm glad I've helped you in some way. I wouldn't wish living with an alcoholic on anyone. You wonder just how many *hits* your heart can take, don't you?

He is such a good man in so many other ways. What kind of people do something like this to their own children? Both his sister and brother are alcoholics as well.


Me:49 BS, WH:51 alcoholic M: 20 yrs- 4 kids ages 14 to 24 DDay: Jan 2010 sexting with someone "Real DDay" Dec 2010- the truth of an occasional f&#k with ex-gf, 12 times in 20 yrs.

Posts: 102 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Washington state
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, November 15th (Tuesday)

Interesting about the lying quote.
After we R my husband was 100% transparent with all his email etc. and I used to check a lot more than I do now..but when I was checking things out I found a draft of his speech for AA-the one they make when they tell their story to the whole group.
He had not shared it with me and it was not complete...it was just his childhood story...but what he said was that he began to lie about things during his childhood.
I guess that is a character flaw of most alcoholics?
Lying to others, lying to themselves especially.
Since going to AA my husband has been fanatical about being honest. I noticed it right away. His comittment to living his life in a totally different way.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
heart_in_a_blend
Member
Member # 24191
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, November 15th (Tuesday)

God, or your higer power is working for you and your husband.

This is your time to STAND!


In life, much of what one grieves one never had.

Posts: 3036 | Registered: May 2009
bent44
Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, November 15th (Tuesday)

njgal,

It is really nice to hear some of these guys really seem to get it! The odds of sobriety are so low, it warms my heart to hear of your H success! Cheers (with Martinelli's) to you both.

Island Toby,

Yes, living with them is so darned hard. Mine is now an XWS, but due to me supervising his visits with DD5, I spend a lot of time with him. Unfortunately, he is really on a downward spiral. It breaks my heart.

Just to update the intervention question I posed, I had a very interesting session with IC today. She pointed out that just the energy of trying to organize an intervention would be taking away from my DD5 and my own healing. She also said forcing him into the position of going into rehab would likely backfire, and I would bare the brunt of his resentment. She also brought up some concerns about his lying (he is making up some really bizarre stuff these days that is not even in defense of his disease). Her implication was that whatever is going on with him may be much deeper than what can be dealt with. The poor guy is SA, a drunk, a druggie, financially a disaster, a chronic liar/manipulator, molested his own sister when he was a teenager, and has even stated he is concerned he is a sociopath.

However, he is 39 years old, knows where help is should he want it, and resents the heck out of any suggestions I make about his well being....so, at this point, if an intervention is going to happen, it looks like I won't be the one doing it. Unfortunately, he is estranged from his family and any healthy friends he had. It really is very sad. He is not the man I married (or maybe he is not the man I THOUGHT I married).
I am afraid he may never get it.

At this point, though, I think I need to focus more on DD5 and my lifeboat. This has wreaked havoc in our lives. I can't afford to have him take me down with him. I am all she has.

Thank you guys again for your insight and advice. If you think my counselor is off base, please let me know. It sounds like my mind is made up, but my heart still hurts for his situation.

Sweet dreams to you all!

[This message edited by bent44 at 9:37 PM, November 15th (Tuesday)]


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.


Posts: 626 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, November 16th (Wednesday)

heart in a blend-
I do believe that there was divine intervention in my FWH finally getting sober and in our reconciliation.

bent44-
I think your counselor's advice is very good.You do need to take care of yourself and your child.
I did not realize that your ex was so far gone.If he is estranged from all of his family and friends then there is no leverage that can be used....he's lost everything already and has still not hit bottom....
What you need to do now is to try to protect your DD from being exposed to any of his craziness.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
bent44
Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, November 16th (Wednesday)

njgal,

Thank you for your support. After that last verbal diarrhea post, I was worried some 2*4's were coming my way.

DD5's counselor is insistent that visitation with XWS is best for her until she is 8 yo. So, we have tons of guidelines in place to keep she and I safe.

I cannot tell you guys how darned sad all of this is. But, we will all make it though!

Thank you guys again for listening. Your support means the world to me.

Another pat on the back to your H for his sobriety. I am routing for him.


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.


Posts: 626 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, November 18th (Friday)

bent-I hope he has supervised visits with your DD.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
bent44
Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, November 18th (Friday)

njgal,

Oh, heck yeh! And I am the supervisor. I know that is kind of crazy, but he can be so charming that I don't trust anyone else with her safety. It has meant 14 hours of hell/ week for me, but she is worth every second. My counselor jokes that my healing will be thorough!


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.


Posts: 626 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, November 19th (Saturday)

bent44,

I'm so thankful my X has her mother supervising her visits. I don't think I could take it. Her father and brother are also approved to supervise, but she's alienated them and only uses her mother.

I guess your healing will be thorough, but peeling the scab off every week does make it take a long time. Worth it to make certain DD is safe.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
IslandToby
Member
Member # 33807
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, November 23rd (Wednesday)

My husband "fell off the wagon" again yesterday.
When there is 2 OW, one the ugly cow and the other alcohol, it truly sucks. It is so hard not to wrap them both together and go off the deep end each time he slips with the alcohol.

Of course, it had to be 2 days before the holiday. His drinking has basically wrecked just about every holiday we have had throughout our marriage. It is a wonder that our kids even want to be here for them.


Me:49 BS, WH:51 alcoholic M: 20 yrs- 4 kids ages 14 to 24 DDay: Jan 2010 sexting with someone "Real DDay" Dec 2010- the truth of an occasional f&#k with ex-gf, 12 times in 20 yrs.

Posts: 102 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Washington state
Mlisa88
Member
Member # 33589
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, November 23rd (Wednesday)

I wish I had an answer for you. My WH has been in recovery for four years. He chose AA over his family and is having an affair with a woman from AA. He never made ammends to me or our children. He acts so righteous and he makes me ill.
I wish I could understand how they do it. It would make a difference to us that are left to deal with the pain while they never suffer a consequence for the poor choices they have made.


Married 23 years Me Bs 45
Him scum bag 49
Just found out October 5,2011
Divorcing

Posts: 135 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: New York
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday)

Island Toby-
so sorry to hear this.
The only thing that you can do is detach from his drinking.
Do you expect him to continue drinking through Thanksgiving? If so..is there a way for you and your children to celebrate Thanksgiving away from him?
You and your children deserve a nice, stress free holiday...without having to deal with a drunken husband and father at the table.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday)

Mlisa-
People can be so cruel and selfish.I'm sorry that your WH did not choose to fight for his family.
Try to do something nice for yourself and your children on Thanksgiving Day.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
hopefulmom
Member
Member # 23556
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday)

(((mlisa)))

You deserve better. Mine has turned from the alcohol and to religion, studying to be a pastor? But no remorse to us, no relationship with his kids....

Njga is right. Do something nice for yourself and your kids.


me-44
WH-45
married 22 years
Dday 10/08
Divorced!

Posts: 257 | Registered: Apr 2009
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 10:50 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday)

(((Mlisa88)))

left to deal with the pain while they never suffer a consequence for the poor choices they have made.

Sorry you are going through this. Your WH chose an OW from AA over your family. My xWW chose an OM from the detox over us. Hurts like hell. No remorse, no amends, no nothing but shifting the blame to anything except where it lies... themselves. My xWW has decided she is the better parent and drug me into court. She lost that and appealed, so another court date will be set soon I guess. Sucks to be us left to deal with the carnage their addiction has created. While they live in a fantasy world they have imagined so they don't have to deal with the painful truth. I guess it is the only way they can live with themselves.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 6:10 AM, November 24th (Thursday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
IslandToby
Member
Member # 33807
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, November 24th (Thursday)

Thank you for *listening*, everyone. I posted about his fall from the wagon at 7:30 this morning and I was upset because I knew he drank yesterday but I hadn't said anything about it. I came home after working for a friend from 9 to 5 and it was obvious from the smell and his demeanor that he had drank.

Part of our R from the A and the drinking is honesty and he had promised to be upfront and tell me if he "slipped" so I was upset because he not only didn't say anything about it last night, but he also lied to our daughter when she said he smelled like beer when she got home before me at 4.

BUT, right after I made my post, he confessed to me that he had drank yesterday. I know it may not seem like much but this is HUGE for us. He always lies and denies then when he realizes that he is truly busted, he promises to tell the truth in the future but always lies again. This time HE TOLD ME! You have no idea what a difference this made for me today. His tiny step towards honesty felt like a big leap in my faith in him.

He spent the day helping me with food prep for tomorrow, went on my errands to the post office and bank and stayed sober. I trust he will stay sober tomorrow as well. He has no alcohol and will have no access to it.

Seriously, the relief I felt at his confession was such a huge weight off my shoulders.

Mlisa- I'm so sorry that your WH made the choice to be with another ow from the AA program. That is such a recipe for disaster. ((hugs))


Me:49 BS, WH:51 alcoholic M: 20 yrs- 4 kids ages 14 to 24 DDay: Jan 2010 sexting with someone "Real DDay" Dec 2010- the truth of an occasional f&#k with ex-gf, 12 times in 20 yrs.

Posts: 102 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Washington state
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, November 24th (Thursday)

(((IslandToby)))

Best wishes for a new start on Thanksgiving. Wouldn't that be something to be thankful for? Hopefully your WS will continue to be honest with you, for without honesty what do you have?

Take care and Happy Thankgiving!

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 10:00 AM, November 24th (Thursday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, November 24th (Thursday)

Island Toby- I understand how huge that is! Lying is such a huge part of toxic addictive behavior.... lying to others, lying to themselves, etc.
Being honest and open about everything is very important to reconciliation.
Make sure you let him know how much you appreciate his honesty and how much it will help your ability to R.

Mlisa and Betrayed- I wonder if part of the reason for running away from the marriage is an attempt to escape themselves... or at least the constant reminder of who they were, how toxic they were, how selfish, cruel, unkind etc.
Its easier to run away and start over with someone else who does not know the 'old' self.
My husband has said that it was extremely painful to look at me post d-day and realize that he was the cause of all of my pain. He finally could see things clearly after he got sober and realized how awful his behavior had been both during the LTA and for all the years of our marriage when he was an active alcoholic/addict etc.
Also facing all of our family and friends post d-day and knowing that they knew...and were watching him and judging him etc.
I do believe that it takes a lot of courage and conviction to do that.
It probably would be easier to run away and avoid all of those situations. Not have to face the judgement etc.

But, having said all of that I want to say that at almost 5 yrs post d-day the vast majority of the family members and friends that were aware of what had happened are now extremely supportive of our reconciliation and of my husband's attempt to change and become a new person.
So, for those that are trying to R with a remorseful spouse....with time... as the WS proves themselves to be honest, open, comitted to saving the marriage and changing their lives...others will notice this change and be supportive.

[This message edited by njgal480 at 5:46 PM, November 24th (Thursday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, November 24th (Thursday)

njgal480,

My xWW found it easier to rewrite history and run from what she did than to deal with it. So, while not drinking at the present I feel she is not sober only dry. She still is the alcoholic that pushes out all the blame and responsibility to someone or something else. She hasn't dealt withher issues that led to her drinking or the A. The OM, a fellow alcoholic she met at detox, also turned on his spouse. Their spouses who took them to the psych hospital to get them help suddenly became "unsupportive". And, their marriages had been over for a long time. Yet, I was her soulmate as she described me to her mother the weekend before I took her to detox. Amazing how they justify what they have done or are doing.

I feel my xWW can't admit she's made a mistake. When taking to the GAL she never mentioned how her alcoholism affected her children other than they were in therapy. She barely acknowledged that her alcoholism had an impact on the marriage and never mentioned the relationship with the fellow alcoholic. The GAL wrote that my xWW thinks that now she is not drinking everything is fine. Not drinking is the start of her journey to soberiety, not the end. I feel without dealing with her problems, it is a matter of when, not if she starts drinking again. She has shown nothing in the way of demonstrating responsibility; no job and no remorse.

You are right in how hard it must be to admit the things you've done wrong, to admit and accept the pain you've cause so many people that loved you. It's much easier to lie to yourself and anyone else who will listen that you've done nothing wrong. Much easier than dealing with your flaws and the problems its caused.

njgal480, your WS has demonstrated a great deal of courage as do al WS's that truly accept responsibility and work on themselves and correcting the problems they've caused. That show true remorse for what they've done.

I wish you and IslandToby the best on things continuing down the right path. Without the honesty your WS's have demonstrated, as painful it was for them, what do you have? No relationship with an alcoholic, addict, or anyone can survive without honesty and trust. No amount of love can overcome constant lies and not being able to trust your spouse.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, November 30th (Wednesday)

Today would have been my wedding anniversary. Feeling a little blah. I had no idea things would turn out this way. I had no idea he would become an alcoholic and break our vows.

Of course this is the 2nd month he's late on his payment. My IC thinks this is a red flag so I'll probably have to contact him although that is the last thing I want to do.


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, November 30th (Wednesday)

(((Why??)))

I'm so sorry.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, December 1st (Thursday)

Thanks, Betrayed1012 - I'm doing better today. Some days can really remind you of everything. At least the check arrived so I won't have to e-mail XAWH - NC of any sort is the best remedy for me.

Hope you are hanging in there with the co-parenting with XAWW.

[This message edited by Why?? at 5:49 PM, December 1st (Thursday)]


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
IslandToby
Member
Member # 33807
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, December 3rd (Saturday)

I'm glad you're feeling better, Why. I realized the other night that our 20th anniversary is coming up at the end of December. While it is such a milestone, I can't help but feel bittersweet about it. This man that I loved SO much, that I married and thought was such a good man to take on a single mom of 2 boys, raise those boys as his own and I had 2 more kids with- it feels like a lie in some ways. ugh, I don't know.


Me:49 BS, WH:51 alcoholic M: 20 yrs- 4 kids ages 14 to 24 DDay: Jan 2010 sexting with someone "Real DDay" Dec 2010- the truth of an occasional f&#k with ex-gf, 12 times in 20 yrs.

Posts: 102 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Washington state
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, December 4th (Sunday)

Thanks, Island Toby

I'm sorry you are also facing an anniversary which often reminds of us how how things were in the beginning before they had progressed in the disease.

Take care of yourself and your children. I hope your WH finds sobriety.


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
pinkribbon
New Member
Member # 34160
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, December 11th (Sunday)

My WH is also an alchoholic as I define it. He used to drink just on the weekends but now it's progressed to every day from when he gets home to when he goes to bed. And on the weekends from noon to bedtime. I'm sure he says it's the stress of being in an unhappy marriage. I think it's the guilt he feels over his affair that's kicked his drinking into overdrive.

I think WH has used work, alcohol and women (sometimes all 3 at the same time) to escape the big gaping hole of nothingness he feels inside. And the more he engages in that behavior, the worse he feels about himself since all 3 cause him to lie, betray or neglect those who love him. Self-esteem and self love drop, self-medicating and escapism behavior escalate which means it's just becomes one vicious circle of regret and repeating.


Posts: 3 | Registered: Dec 2011
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, December 11th (Sunday)

pinkribbon-You pretty much nailed it. That is the cycle. They try to self medicate with their addictionc/compulsions etc. and only end up feeling worse about themselves and then they need to act out again in the hopes that they'll feel better.
Alcoholics are not happy people but then add infidelity into the mix and they become really unhappy.
I used to call my husband the troll on the couch during the LTA years. I didn't know he was having an affair but I did see his drinking get worse-every day after work, all night in front of the TV until he passed out on the couch, he was nasty, grouchy, unpleasant to be around, detached from me and our children-definitely not happy.
I never knew those behaviors were signs of an affair. Now I do.
I also never knew that alcoholics almost always end up having an affair-usually with a female drinking buddy.
Now I know that too.
What are you planning to do now? Is he NC with the OW?
Is the affair over? Is he remorseful? does he want to stay married?
If so..then you have some leverage- you can make demands in order to consider reconciling with him after the affair.
#1 demand after NC should be attending AA.
Going to IC and AA has truly changed my husband for the better.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, December 11th (Sunday)

(((pinkribbon)))

Sorry you are enduring the pain of his problem. Alcoholism is a disease that affects the whole family, not just the one with the disease.

I'm sure he says it's the stress of being in an unhappy marriage

I'm sure my alcoholic xWW says that too. It is always their job, their marriage, the phase of the moon... anything but the real problem that caused them to drink. It is always easier to place the blame elsewhere than face the reality of they are the problem.

Take care of yourself. that's all you have control over.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, December 31st (Saturday)

A sad reminder of how serious this awful disease is. One of my parent's neighbor's daughter was married to an A. She divorced him and he remarried. Then 2nd wife divorced him. He lost his job due to drinking. Got a DUI, went to jail and then when he got out he shot himself. Really awful. I cried a bit and thought of my xAWH and hoped he doesn't end up that way. Sadly, there are only 3 outcomes:
1) recovery/sobriety
2) jail
3) death

Hope the new year brings more of #1 to all the As and their friends and family.

[This message edited by Why?? at 3:02 PM, December 31st (Saturday)]


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
tired_and_broken
Member
Member # 34226
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, January 4th (Wednesday)

Does anyone feel this way?

I feel like I suffered from my WH's alcoholism for so long but loved him unconditionally.

Now he has had an A, put me through a year of LIVING HELL, got a DUI etc.. Now, SUDDENLY, he decides he is going to divorce me because of course this is all MY FAULT (sound familiar) but here's the kicker...

NOW he is going to finally give in and go to AA... NOW he decides to do something about the problem.

I feel SO CHEATED that the OW or the NEXT girl will get the sober wonderful man I was supposed to be married to...it just seems so unfair to me I can't bear it... does anyone else feel this way?


Divorced 04/12/12
I am FREE!



Posts: 641 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Was in Florida/Now in Texas
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, January 4th (Wednesday)

Tired and broken-
So sorry that your WH continues to cause you so much pain.
Is there definitely no chance of reconciling?
Do you think his wanting a divorce is because he's still in the A with the OW?
or...do you think it could be his way of avoiding facing you and your children? and doing the hard work of reconciling?
Alcoholics always run away from problems....so his reaction could be due to that.
I understand the irony of what you are talking about.
But, maybe you could try to look at his sobriety as a good thing for your children....
at least if he has finally hit bottom and goes to AA and gets the help and support he needs-he may become the kind of father he should have been for all these years?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
tired_and_broken
Member
Member # 34226
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, January 4th (Wednesday)

njgal480,
It's funny you ask... today he actually attended a meeting and then went to IC...Called me afterwards very optimistic about ridding himself of this poison and pulling his life together. He said, "There's no need for us to rush into anything (divorce)" so he has changed his mind since yesterday. I think you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT and he is running away from doing the hard work and facing us. He has said over and over the "Can we ever just put it behind us and move on?" *sigh* thanks for pointing that out though. When i'm in the thick of it, I usually believe what he SAYS and I know that is foolish. haha


Divorced 04/12/12
I am FREE!



Posts: 641 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Was in Florida/Now in Texas
hopefulmom
Member
Member # 23556
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, January 4th (Wednesday)

((tiredandbroken))

I totally get you. I feel that same way.

However then I remind myself that there's no guarantee that he will remain sober especially if he doesn't change his ways of thinking. My Ex used to go to AA and drink! He also used AA as a cover for meeting the OW.

I am still to blame for his drinking, affair, etc even though I too stood by him for years through many lost jobs, DUI, sober times and relapses.
Sometimes I think just maybe this is for real this time?

Do you have it left in you to go back to the old way of life? Does he show you he is changing (like taking responsibility for his behavior?) Or is he becoming a dry drunk?

Hang in there.


me-44
WH-45
married 22 years
Dday 10/08
Divorced!

Posts: 257 | Registered: Apr 2009
tired_and_broken
Member
Member # 34226
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, January 4th (Wednesday)

hopefulmom,
I can tell you get me! You know, he is so far away from recovery I think he is not even a dry drunk yet. He is just starting to even admit he has a problem, so there is a VERY LONG ROAD ahead if he even stays on a track of recovery. He has not shown any signs of really taking responsibility for his behavior.

SIGH


Divorced 04/12/12
I am FREE!



Posts: 641 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Was in Florida/Now in Texas
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, January 4th (Wednesday)

Tire and broken-
It does sound like there may be hope. He did go to AA and to IC. It is a long journey but you have to start somewhere.
Maybe he has hit bottom.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
tired_and_broken
Member
Member # 34226
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, January 4th (Wednesday)

njgal480,

Well, it's not over till the gavel drops. haha. I can't allow myself to be too hopeful because it's happened before, but this is a big sign. I thought he was only meeting requirements for the DUI court hearing but he has scheduled two IC sessions per week for the next six weeks and he only needed 4 more sessions. I do think I need to keep as detached as possible (I completely suck at "detaching with love" or the 180) My accomplishment today has been I have not contacted him whatsoever. He called this morning to tell about his IC and meeting and just called again to talk about his work day. (sounded like he had a few though =/) I was nice, but not TOO nice and did not continue the conversation as I normally would have.

All along, I have struggled with divorcing him or "moving on" because I truly felt if he got his drinking under control, these other problems would be easier to manage. I guess time will tell.

To all of you out there dealing with an alcoholic, WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT. When they do their STINKING THINKING, it is so nice to know that others can help us read between the lines!

(hug)


Divorced 04/12/12
I am FREE!



Posts: 641 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Was in Florida/Now in Texas
rejectedluv
Member
Member # 33495
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, January 4th (Wednesday)

I can relate. I have been married to alcoholic for 24 years. he is now had an affair. says he loves her and can't go no contact. has been trying to do the 180. he's drinking has increased tenfold to the point where he is drunk knightley. I have kicked him out a couple of times and we'd always gotten back together. he is here now but I'm not sure it's what I want .anymore


all is well

Posts: 211 | Registered: Oct 2011
rejectedluv
Member
Member # 33495
Cool  Posted: 7:37 PM, January 4th (Wednesday)

I can relate. I have been married to alcoholic for 24 years. he is now had an affair. says he loves her and can't go no contact. has been trying to do the 180. he's drinking has increased tenfold to the point where he is drunk knightley. I have kicked him out a couple of times and we'd always gotten together. he is here now but I'm not sure it's what I want .anymore I still love him and would love for it to work out but I'm not sure it's what I want. as with the other alcoholics he's not showing true mowers or to reconciliation yet which I guess I'm not expecting. everyday for my answer to come first drink thank you for listening


all is well

Posts: 211 | Registered: Oct 2011
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, January 4th (Wednesday)

I also kicked my fwh out of the house after d-day. I was an emotional wreck and I was 'done'.I started searching out divorce lawyers
in between my screaming phone calls to my husband as I unraveled more and more of the dirty facts of the affair. I also outted the LTA to MOW's BH, her boss, my husband's boss and to a number of co-workers.
I refused to keep any more secrets for him. I had covered for his drinking for 30 yr!-no more.
and..to my surprise he hit bottom-finally.Went to AA and IC. went NC with the OW immediately and never looked back.

[This message edited by njgal480 at 9:25 PM, January 6th (Friday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
tired_and_broken
Member
Member # 34226
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, January 5th (Thursday)

rejectedluv- I feel you and understand exactly what you are talking about... those of us who have lived with an alcoholic for years seem to already be in crisis and when the A happens, it just pushes us over the edge..

NJgal- I hope I am as lucky. I am trying very hard to implement 180 now (finally..) and yesterday he asked if we could "not rush into anything (divorce" so I'm hoping maybe he is starting to hit the bottom. I had thought the affair, the kicking him out, the two arrests (for a man who has NEVER been in trouble) the DUI... I kept wondering where the hell is bottom???? But apparently I have always been laying there cushioning him from it.


Divorced 04/12/12
I am FREE!



Posts: 641 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Was in Florida/Now in Texas
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, January 30th (Monday)

*bump*


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
tired_and_broken
Member
Member # 34226
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, February 3rd (Friday)

It's been pointed out that in the case of an alcoholic, the alcohol is the real mistress and affair partners are subsequent to that mistress. It's SO TRUE...SO VERY TRUE...

I'm struggling right now with this question... Even IF WH sobers up...will he stop with the selfish ME FIRST attitude so common among alcoholics? He keeps saying "I'm a Type A personality" as if that is an excuse for him being a pushy, aggressive selfish ass.

Today has been bad for me. I am seriously so tired....


Divorced 04/12/12
I am FREE!



Posts: 641 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Was in Florida/Now in Texas
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, February 3rd (Friday)

That's what my FWH says. That the alcohol was a very important part of the LTA. Not that he was excusing his behavior with the alcohol but instead he said that because the MOW was also an alcoholic and drinking was a big part of their 'routine'...that the drinking was actually a big attraction of the LTA.
I do not drink, did not approve of his drinking-the OW encouraged it and did not make him feel guilty about it.
You're right about the selfishness of an alcoholic/addict.
That's why I think AA was so important in my FWH's sobriety.
Stopping drinking is not enough. Just like simply stopping the affair is not enough.
There has to be real change in the alcoholic. There has to be introspection and a desire to become a better person, a less selfish person. IC and AA have helped my FWH to make these changes in himself.
Tired-So sorry that you are having a bad day.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, February 4th (Saturday)

(((tired_and_broken)))

If your WH becomes sober then I'd say he has a chance at becoming a better person. That's the nature of becoming sober... changed behavior. Without the changed behavior, he's just dry or not drinking and nothing has really changed.

My xWW once said to her mother if it wasn't the OM it would have been sonmeone else. The OM was an alcoholic and accepting. He didn't care about our kids or what was best for her, only him. xWW said they had a special bond: drank vodka, hid it in water bottles, and the birthdays were days apart. Nor did she care about his family or whether he relapsed. In that aspect their selfishness made them a perfect pair. How could I compete with that??? Wonder why they didn't last...

Alcoholism is their way of life whether they are drinking or not, unless as njgal's WH did and accept responsibility and really work to change their behavior and life.

So, yes your WH can become less selfish and self-centered if he truly is in recovery. You'll know. Just stopping drinking and losing the AP isn't enough.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 12:13 PM, February 5th (Sunday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
heart_in_a_blend
Member
Member # 24191
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, February 7th (Tuesday)

I've been married to an alcoholic for 39 years. I wonder why I stay with this self-destructive person for so long. And then I have to answer my own question. They can be so charming at times. Which is just more of the delusional behavior.

I've been reading through this website: http://addictionrecoverybasics.com/why-is-honesty-so-important-in-addiction-recovery/

It has helped me with the constant lying and denying my husband does. It has truly been abusive crazy making for a lifetime. They all lie to themselves first. Very sad and always makes me feel sorry for him which doesn't help either one of us.

This is where I am right now. I have been to Ala-non and AA meetings myself. My husband attending one AA meeting and left saying he didn't belong there. Did I say delusional?

My is a "working alcoholic" which means he is still able to provide for his family. But now that he is older I can really see the wear on him. He has started to take off work earlier and sometimes he doesn't go at all. I know that he was reprimanding for this and I guess this will be the other shoe that is always waiting to drop.

Back in 2008 he stopped drinking because of health issues. During that time he melted down, claimed he had a mid-life crisis, started dating the dry cleaning woman and bought himself a Corvette. Guess it had all the signs of MLC. Personally, I think that he just had to find a substitute for drinking which is his first love. Finally, he came home to once again hook up with his first love Alcohol. And this is where we have been ever since.

Where do I go from here?


In life, much of what one grieves one never had.

Posts: 3036 | Registered: May 2009
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, February 8th (Wednesday)

(((heart_in_a_blend)))

I am sorry. Alcoholism is a disease that hits the whole family. Sure that you've heard that in Al-Anon. You should know this is not you. Not your fault, not your problem to solve. It's his problem and only he can solve it.

I understand about the lies. You are right in the person they lie to the most is themselves if they are not in recovery, even if they are not drinking. That's what my xWW does. She's dry, but still all her problems are not her's, they are someone else's. Her marriage ended not because she was an alcoholic who was sleeping with another married alcoholic and refused to end it. No, she told the GAL it was because I was so angry. Nothing she did. She lost her job, was terminated. Yet, she took a break from what she was doing according to the GAL report. I imagine your WS has much the same view. No responsibility or ownership of his problems.

The question you have to ask is when is enough. Only you can answer that. You may want to talk it over with IC to sort out your feelings. Stay or go, either way you have to detach from him and his problems. Some alcoholics, like njgal's WS can make the changes in their lives, in their behavior that leads to sobriety. They'll never be cured, but can manage their lives without the crutch of alcohol, adultry, or lies.

Take care of you. That's all you have control over.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 11:25 AM, February 8th (Wednesday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
heart_in_a_blend
Member
Member # 24191
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, February 8th (Wednesday)

betrayed: thanks for responding.

I think that I have waited too long in life to ever leave him. Health, financial issues and I'm so emotionally dependant on him I don't feel like I would survive.

But there are many days where I say I don't care what I have to go through that I can't live another day watching him sit all day and drink himself into the "monster" I've become accustomed too.

He struggles but never wins.

Again thank you.


In life, much of what one grieves one never had.

Posts: 3036 | Registered: May 2009
tired_and_broken
Member
Member # 34226
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, February 8th (Wednesday)

Mistress #1 = ALCOHOL
Mistress #2+= Whoever supports and helps rationalize Mistress #1.

Honestly, you all are amazing people and I'm so sorry for everyone who struggles with an alcoholic spouse. As a byproduct of the disease, we grow accustomed to enabling, and accepting less than we deserve in a loving relationship. I believe this makes it even harder for us in some ways (not trying to trivialize other peoples pain) to stand up for ourselves and end the relationship after an A. For at least 12 of the 24 years I was married, I knew in my heart I deserved better but I also knew he was sick. So now he did the worst... why am I still here? WTH is wrong with me that I would still fight to save a marriage like this???!!! I want him SOBER...not just dry...SOBER... because I know that if he were, we would be amazing together...like we once were.

Sorry I'm rambling... I've been crying all day and just really am at the end of my rope. Yesterday I was served with a summons because they are foreclosing on my home. This is not as alarming to the alcoholic husband, as he lives in his fancy little apartment anyways. I am having a pity party today.


Divorced 04/12/12
I am FREE!



Posts: 641 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Was in Florida/Now in Texas
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, February 8th (Wednesday)

Tired- I am so sorry.
What will you do now? Do you want to try to stay in the house? If that's not possible where will you go?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
tired_and_broken
Member
Member # 34226
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, February 8th (Wednesday)

NJGal- Thanks...I have no clue what I'm going to do. Lost my job in October (related to stress and such re:the A)...WH wants to try to refinance but also is talking D. I can't afford the utilities much less a mtg. on this place so I will have to leave unless we R. I can take care of myself, temporarily living with eldest DD but worry about younger DD19 who isn't ready to be on her own yet but doesn't want to move across the country. This whole thing really stinks.


Divorced 04/12/12
I am FREE!



Posts: 641 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Was in Florida/Now in Texas
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, March 3rd (Saturday)

***bump***


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, March 10th (Saturday)

Got the latest back from my alcoholic xWW in prep for our court case to deal with her request to mod visitation. She presented school records showing the children's grades dropped and they had increased tardies and absences after I started caring for them. Stated they did better when she was the "primary caregiver".

While not drinking it's still the same alcoholic thought pattern with her... It's not me that's the problem.

She neglected to mention there were two of us taking care of the children before her alcoholism spiraled out of control and she started going on week long drunks with her "support network", the OM she met in detox. She forgot how much I was taking care of the children; picking them up from school, homework, bathes, & bedtime. Forgot how I took care of them over that summer while she went into several hospitalizations as I tried to get her help for her disease. Seems to have forgot that the turmoil in their lives she caused when she disappeared with the OM on a drunk... she didn't have to comfort them about why hasn't mommy come home or is mommy alright. Her statement is she was the primary caregiver and forgets I was the sole caregiver while she was off with the OM, both on drunks and as they had their A.

Still the alcoholic at heart and that's what scares me. She hasn't worked in almost 2 years, what's going to happen when the money runs out and she has to work again. I don't think she's developed the coping skills that a true recovery would give her. That's why I don't want her to have unsupervised visits. To me she's one bump in the road from a relapse. And what will happen to the children if they are with her alone, without a safety net. Their physical safety and emotional well being is at risk.

I know she just thinks I'm an A$$hole, but she forced me to make the tough choice of supporting my wife or protecting my children and also threw in the ultimate betrayal.

What a long road it has been and it doesn't look like it's going to get any easier anytime soon. At least I hope the sale of the house goes through. I'd rather live under a tarp than under the roof where she was spreading her legs for her alcoholic friend anymore while I was at work or off with the kids for her to attend AA meetings. I've stayed here this long for the kids, so they wouldn't have so much upheaval in their lives. But, it is time for a fresh start.

I hate what alcoholism does to the entire family, not just the alcoholic.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:21 AM, March 11th (Sunday)

Betrayed1012-
Sending you long distance hugs.
What a tough road.
Of course your priority should be to protect your children.
I suggest that you write a letter to the judge describing everything that has happened and why you believe that your STBXW is not ready for a change in visitation.
I have been re-reading some books on addiction and I find new insights in them all the time: The Addictive Personality by Craig Naaken and Reclaiming Your Family From Addiction by Craig Naaken. The second book has examples of how addiction affects children.

Are your kids in counseling?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, March 11th (Sunday)

njgal480 - thanks.

The kids have been in counseling since March 2010. My son has made a great deal of progress, but still has a ways to go. He deals with feelings of abandonment and anxiety in addition to ADD. He was angry at me for the divorce. I was the safe parent, the one who wouldn't run away and leave him. She's seized on his anger as how she's better than me since she can never admit it was her and her disease. My daughter craves attention of adult women. She want so much a relationship with her mother. I don't think xWW can do it since she never had a healthy relationship with her alcoholic mother.

My xWW presents well. She's attractive, articulate, and highly educated (PhD). My lawyer has done a good job of getting my side across - but at a price $$$$$.

No matter how I feel about my xWW it is in the best interest of the children she does well. I wish she would pull her head out of where ever she has it firmly planted and work on herself. Demonstrate she can manage life before she tries to care for our children alone. Not drinking is just the start on the road to sobriety, not the end of the journey.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
lorilook
Member
Member # 22393
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, March 11th (Sunday)

Thank you for posting this T and B. It is so very true.

Mistress #1 = ALCOHOL
Mistress #2+= Whoever supports and helps rationalize Mistress #1.


As a byproduct of the disease, we grow accustomed to enabling, and accepting less than we deserve in a loving relationship. I believe this makes it even harder for us in some ways... to stand up for ourselves and end the relationship after an A.

I never would have found the strength to leave and I was terrified that he would. Well, he left and (after I picked myself up and glued myself back together) I thank god everyday that he did. I finally feel "balanced" in my own life.

He spent the year after he left with mistress #1 and mistress #2. He lost his job (a really really good job), lost his unsupervised visitation and overnights with our kids, and almost drank himself to death. Somehow he managed to get sober and get his life on track. OW #2 is still with him and their bond is even stronger because she helped him in his recovery. He sees his kids again and is more engaged with them than he was when he was living with them. So I am grateful for that. But I know that OW #1 is still lurking around and I still assess his actions, demeanor, and breath everytime he picks up the kids. He never fully admitted that he is an alcoholic. Thinks it was a MLC where his drinking "got out of hand." He forgets that I have been witness to his drinking/drunkenness for 20 years, long before he hit midlife. He never worked the steps of AA, just went for show. While I do beleive he is sober, I know he didn't address the reasons for his drinking or the damage it caused. So I wait.....from a safe distance.

[This message edited by lorilook at 9:38 AM, March 11th (Sunday)]


Me(BS) 40/Him (WS) 43
M-18 years
2 beautiful & resilient children
DDay 12/05/08
False R for 5 months
He moved out 5/1/09
Divorced!
OW#1 has always been alcohol.

Posts: 696 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: MI
heart_in_a_blend
Member
Member # 24191
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, March 11th (Sunday)

I hate what alcoholism does to the entire family, not just the alcoholic.

Yes, all the family suffers from one persons addiction. It destroys lives.

betrayed: someday your children will understand and thank you for not abandoning them.

It's a shame that your wife is wasting her life like so many do.

Stay strong and keep fighting.


In life, much of what one grieves one never had.

Posts: 3036 | Registered: May 2009
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, March 19th (Monday)

Ugh! I don't know if it is this time of year triggering me or what? I've been NC with xwh and the last time I spoke with him will be 2 years ago next month. I did some googling but did not turn up anything but it made me upset (felt like regressing). I wonder if the lack of closure and never knowing what happened caused this? Also, with an alcoholic ex you always wonder if they have found real sobriety. Oh, well...life goes on.

[This message edited by Why?? at 1:18 PM, March 19th (Monday)]


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, March 19th (Monday)

Sorry you are triggering Why??. It is tough to wonder if X ever find true sobriety or iss just dry. And, if they do manage to get into recovery why they couldn't pull it off with you. Life is full of unanswered questions. Best to accept and just move on than to continue to look for an answer you'll never truly get.

Take care, Why??


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Fleury
Member
Member # 24185
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, March 20th (Tuesday)

Hi, my name is fleury and I belong to this group within a group.

Like most of you, I have a very long story. I will attempt to shorten it up!

My WH is the product of two alcholics. My father was one as well. We talked about this before we were married. I told him that I did not want to be married to an alcholic and he didn't either. I have learned that these things he said were basically meaningless.

WH had an affair with a skank that reported to him. It didn't last long before I figured it out. He continued to work with it for 18 months after D-Day. Then lost his job.

I thought things would get better if the skank wasn't in our daily lives and for awhile it seemed as though they were.

It took H a long time to get a job. I guess during that time off of work he started to drink on the sly. Just a constant thing so there wasn't anything overt that said "YOO WHOOO, I am drunk!!"

I just noticed that every now and again that he would have one beer and seemed a little too tipsy. And our arguments seemed to escalate quickly and he became the grand lecturer. It ws hell.

Then he started a job....and hated it. Instead of coping with the fact that he had to start helping support this family, he turtled and started drinking more heavily. Which of course meant that he started doing worse at work which made it an even worse job. All the while he is blaming me for his shitty life.

In December I got him to go see a doctor. Doc prescribed an AD. Well, H almost killed himself with these as he was taking them multiple times a day on top of the bourbon. I had to take the AD's away from him before he died.

Then in January, he got the 'flu'. I honestly thought he was sick. But you know better don't you? He had the bourbon flu. I found out because I took him to the ER. He couldn't fill out his name on the intake card. The doctor was not so nice. He was about triple the legal limit. I was PISSED. Read him the riot act. Told him I was done. I was NOT going to be married to a drunk. Period.

As you guessed, that didn't stop him. I told him that he could not attend our son's hockey game unless he was sober. He had 3 days to sober up, didn't do it. So he spent the weekend detoxing.

I tried to get him to go to AA. To do something. To get some support. Wouldn't do it.

He was shortly back to drinking again. Made a huge hockey weekend into a nightmare. Ended up trying to detox while we were on the road. Ended up in the ER after suffering from a mild seizure. This doc gave him meds to get him through.

So far as I can tell he hasn't had anything to drink since then. It has been 3 weeks.

He still has no support group. Just doing it to prove everyone wrong.

I don't think this will last. He will be back on it eventually.

I am dead instead. After the A, working with the Ho for so long, the unemployment and now this (Oh and he lost the new job too)I just have nothing left. Then to top it off, it feels like he is doing the 180 on me. I am like 'whatever'. I feel like I am getting him through all his life's issues and it is killing me in the process. In the end, I will be the one alone....

Is this normal? What am I in for here?

Thanks for reading.

fleury


What have I done to deserve this life?

Posts: 378 | Registered: May 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:07 AM, March 21st (Wednesday)

Fleury-
So sorry that you find yourself here.
Have you considered ALANON meetings for yourself?
Or IC?
This is a difficult situation to get through on your own.
The same is true for your WH.
It's hard to recover from addiction on your own.
Stopping drinking is not enough. That's called a dry drunk.
Just like simply ending the affair is not enough.

You need to do a lot of work on yourself to figure how you got to this point or else you will continue to make the same mistakes.

After d-day my FWH went to IC for 1 and 1/2 yrs and he went to AA meetings.
At first he went to 90 meetings in 90 days. He still attends AA now-5 yrs post d-day.
For him, for us- AA was crucial.
The combination of IC and AA truly changed my FWH.
I have previously recommended books by Craig Naaken. They were also very helpful for me: The Addictive Personality and Reclaiming Your Family from Addiction.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
tired_and_broken
Member
Member # 34226
Default  Posted: 5:43 AM, March 21st (Wednesday)

(((Fleury)))

NJgal is right. Seek out Alanon, they are a great help.

You are not alone here..


Divorced 04/12/12
I am FREE!



Posts: 641 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Was in Florida/Now in Texas
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, March 21st (Wednesday)

(((Fleury)))

So sorry you are here.

I can relate to the closet drinker and many of the other things you mention, such as your WH having alcoholism in his family. You would think it would repulse those who had lived through it, but it doesn't. Always the ratonalization "I'm not that bad".

Please consider AlAnon and IC. It is too hard to go through these problems alone.

Take care of yourself. It is all you have control over, not waht your WH will do.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Fleury
Member
Member # 24185
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, March 22nd (Thursday)

Thanks for the replies. I will look into AlAnon in my area. I travel for work, so I hope it is something that I can do a drop in type thing.

What is weird to me is that DS17 found out about the A. Basically proclaimed his undying hate for his father. The relationship between the two of them was tenuous at best.

After these last few very bad months, WH told the kids he had a problem with alcohol and that he was quitting.

Ever since then DS has been great to WH. Talks to him, watches TV, does anything that WH asks of him...with no push back. It was like WH lifted some black cloud and now DS is all good.

Sigh. In some ways it pisses me off because now WH thinks it is all good. And now wonders why I can't just let it go so easily.

This is difficult.

I almost have to say that it is worse than the A. I think maybe because it is just one more thing for me.

Ah well, thank for reading.

fleury


What have I done to deserve this life?

Posts: 378 | Registered: May 2009
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, March 22nd (Thursday)

Fleury-
Yes you can just drop in to ALANON meetings. You do not have to make an appointment. And they do have them everywhere. You can check it out online.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
persevere
Member
Member # 31468
Default  Posted: 5:31 PM, April 21st (Saturday)

I haven't posted much on this forum, but I read it sometimes. Honestly, it's hard to read because it hits home so hard. It's easier to focus on NB and DS forums.

Very true that Mistress #1 was Alcohol, and he left me for an OW who is Mistress #2 - supports and enables the alcohol.

I heard the new George Straight song "The Drinking Man" today and I just broke down sobbing driving down the road because it's so my WXH.

If you haven't heard it here's the youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgIS6EHpraM&feature=related
I just thought posters on this thread would understand.


Me: BW-43
Him: XWH-43
Together 9 yrs
DDays: 1/10/2011
Status: Divorced 4/27/11

Above all, be the heroine, not the victim. - Nora Ephron

It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.
- J. K. Rowling


Posts: 4160 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Texas
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:27 PM, April 22nd (Sunday)

persevere,

Sorry. The song does describe what I know of alcoholics. Wishing they could pour out the drink and being unable to do so.

There is always hope. But, you need to protect yourself. No matter what, you can't fix it for him. Just take care of yourself.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 8:46 AM, April 23rd (Monday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Question  Posted: 3:38 PM, April 24th (Tuesday)

Does anyone know much about
"dry drunk" syndrome
?

My xwh sent me the most awful text. He isn't drinking but the text did not appear to come from someone of a sober mind.

I just can't believe he really thinks what he sent me. He's the one who cheated, etc. yet he hates me so much?! Very shocking and unbelievable...


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 3:45 AM, May 7th (Monday)

(((Why??)))

Dry drunk is an alcoholic who is not drinking, but not done the work to be in active recovery or sober. The dry drunk still thinks like an alcoholic shifting the responsibility to everyone and everything else, but where it lies. The dry drunk has never accepted his behavior has to change because to him it was always you, his job, his boss, the phase of the moon, etc that caused his drinking. The dry drunk made the first step which is to stop drinking, but never has made it to sobriety which is accpting responsibility and making the changes within and in his behavior that alcoholic.

Your X hates you becaused you "caused" all his problems. If only you had done this or not done that he would not have cheated or drank. Alcoholic behavior and infidelity are closely related. They both shift the responsibility away from the person and to someone else.

It does seem that your X may be a dry drunk. My xWW is. Her drinking was caused by her job, me and anything else she can think of. The emotional problems the children have are my fault and have nothing to do with the feeling of abandonment due to her disappearing with OM on drinking sprees. She did nothing wrong. As with her affair with OM, a fellow alcoholic she met in detox, she bears no responsibility for that either. That was I was always so angry. When I asked her how should I feel that my wife is sleeping with another man, I got "I don't know, it hasn't happened to me.". She would call from his apartment when she was relapsing with him and bait me into arguments to justify what she was doing. She has never worked any of the Steps in AA as far as I know because she has never made amends to any one. To make amends would invalidate what she had done and mean she would have to accept responsibility for her behavior and actions which she is not going to do. So that is why I feel she is a dry drunk just as your X may be.

That is also what worries me about my xWW. Since she not accepted it is hers to own she hasn't changed and when the next bump in the road comes along how will she handle it. It is hers to own and I know I don't control it, but I don't want her to hurt our children or put them at risk. It sounds like the text from your X has you worried about his lack of responsibility also. How he hasn't made the changes needed for sobriety. Just remember it is his to own. And, you have no control over it. Don't accept guilt or responsibility from him because as a dry drunk he'll gladly shift it to you.

Take care of yourself.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, May 7th (Monday)

Thanks betrayed1012, for your detailed explanation. I too never received an amends so I understand where you are coming from.

To make amends would invalidate what she had done and mean she would have to accept responsibility for her behavior and actions which she is not going to do.

Have to keep in the mind the above quote when/if I receive nasty outbursts from xwh. We are NC but he's been pulling some power/control issues lately and not following the divorce agreement so I tried to nicely remind him (very business like and courteous) and that's when he sent me the nasty text. Next step is to lawyer up but that's more $$$ and more nastiness from him.

One day a time...Hope you are hanging in there.


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
SierraGrace
Member
Member # 24259
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, May 29th (Tuesday)

I think it's high time I post here. Why, at almost 53, I am still SO naive about alcoholism...I do not understand.

My situation is such that we were not married. It was, I THOUGHT, a committed dating relationship and we acted as a family with his kids. My whole sordid story is on my profile and in re-reading it I feel so gullible and stupid.

Some important detail I realize I didn't include, and maybe the most important detail, is his alcoholism. He wasn't drinking when we started dating. I did ask a few questions before we got together including about alcohol and addictions, and his claim was he occasionally likes a nice glass of wine with dinner.

BUT, he apparently had a LONG history of drinking as did his ex-wife. I found this out AFTER we started dating and he did start drinking again a couple of months later, and it immediately became a nightly thing. Not just a nice glass of wine with dinner....but 2 bottles. I expressed my discomfort over it, but he rationalized it by the stress of the court battle he was in.

So, now it's 7 years later. He has STILL been able to draw me back in. He has quit drinking at times...but never went to AA other than when he was forced to by court, but didn't take it seriously, so never truly became sober, never truly made amends needless to say, and apparently, at those times when he stopped, I am learning now, was just a dry drunk.

I desperately need some education obviously and my IC had suggested Al-Anon a couple of years ago but I never followed through. It's time. It's time to get out of my own fog about all of this and realize, as much as his acoholism has taken from his life, destroyed his life, his self-worth, how deeply it has affected me, my life and almost has destroyed me.

When I first joined SI, I went from thinking he was a sex addict, to having NPD, but now realize all of those are just secondary to....alcoholism.

I feel really really stupid to have let someone else's disease take over my life....just so I could have the "family" I never thought I'd have.

There was no alcoholism in my family...I just don't get how I was able to be drawn into this and NOT walk away when the red flags KEPT popping up...

Damn....

I have A LOT of reading to catch up on in this thread no doubt...


BSO(me): 50-ish! How did THAT happen?
~♥~ Fur-kids: 5 Cats ~♥~
Adopt a pet! Save a life!

Posts: 1577 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Sunrises to Sunsets
Newtwood
Member
Member # 21154
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, May 29th (Tuesday)

Like many of you I have to add my name to this SI sub- group too. My H has an addiction problem-the latest is alcohol. He has transferred his addictions from: workaholic, spendaholic, foodaholic, porn/sexaholic, to alcoholic. The last 2 are the worst.

He drinks daily and of course he is making my life miserable and his college-aged girls who live with us. He gets nasty and says things that hurt and humiliate. Then he socializes with co-workers who also drink. He will drink anything he get hold of. He then tries to get me "in the mood" by using some of THE most disgusting wording and requests I've ever heard and I've seen plenty of raunchy porn. It's a complete turn-off for me. I was sexually harassed like this in high school by low-life jerks before sexual harassment was even heard of and I felt/feel traumatized by it to this day.

It isn't affecting his work as of yet but I think eventually it will catch up to him. He has tried counseling with an addiction therapist-he stopped going. I don't think AA would be of any use to him.

I know alcoholics and addiction real well-my Grandfather was an alcoholic, several Uncles on both sides, my Mom. They all either died as a result or messed up their health so bad it indirectly helped them into their graves. H is not a young man and he's had several brushes with death already-diabetes, 2 heart surgeries and gastric bypass surgery from being close to 400 lbs.

I need help to cope. I've looked for AlAnon groups here-there aren't any.

You know we made it through the A shit almost 4 yrs ago now and didn't need this on top of it!!!! I don't know how much more of this I can take or if I even should...


Faithful Wife of 24+ yrs: Me
WS: Him
OW(s): AFF Skanks/GRANDMOTHERS!!!

Status: Struggling Everday to
Survive

what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another-Anatole France


Posts: 2181 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: North Carolina
SierraGrace
Member
Member # 24259
Default  Posted: 11:12 PM, May 29th (Tuesday)

I made it to my first Al-Anon meeting tonight....and I don't know WHAT took me so long! I could have saved some years of grief. I WILL keep going.

Newtwood, I think I've heard there are online Al-Anon groups too, so that might be worth checking out....


BSO(me): 50-ish! How did THAT happen?
~♥~ Fur-kids: 5 Cats ~♥~
Adopt a pet! Save a life!

Posts: 1577 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Sunrises to Sunsets
Newtwood
Member
Member # 21154
Default  Posted: 11:38 PM, May 29th (Tuesday)

Yes, thanks SierraGrace, I did find there were the online ones. I think that's the way I'll have to go for now.


Faithful Wife of 24+ yrs: Me
WS: Him
OW(s): AFF Skanks/GRANDMOTHERS!!!

Status: Struggling Everday to
Survive

what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another-Anatole France


Posts: 2181 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: North Carolina
Fleury
Member
Member # 24185
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, May 31st (Thursday)

Just as I thought...I am back.

WH has continuously fallen off the wagon, just as I told him he would, his doctor told him he would and his BIL told him he would. But no, he didn't listen and didn't get any help.

He made a great step today and called AA and talked to someone. He is going to a meeting on Monday. Is seriously humiliated.

On the dry drunk topic, my H is a dry adulteror and a dry drunk. He claims that it is all my fault he is this way. I ask for specifics of what I do that causes these serious behaviours...there are none.

What is funny is that I have quit drinking because I think it would be insensitive for me to drink in front of him. Mind you, I top out at 2 glasses of wine a week, so this is nt an everyday occurance. Now, i don't drink a thing and he is sneaking drinks. How crappy, I would love a glass of wine and have been holding off for months now and he hasn't been at all!

I am going to have to find that on-line Al-Anon group. Sounds like something I could actually do with my work schedule.

fleury


What have I done to deserve this life?

Posts: 378 | Registered: May 2009
Crushed1
Member
Member # 6449
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, June 2nd (Saturday)

I'm sorry I can't be of help to anyone with an alcoholic because I'm learning to deal with one. There are a lot of wise people here who know things and THANK YOU whoever you are for help and support.

My alcoholic H...well, I just give up. He's been on the alcohol train since 2005. And gets worse and worse! I'm just so tired of trying to help him, trying to get him to open his eyes to his alcoholism. He is now having about a 6 pack a DAY of beer!!! I have no idea how he even wakes up in the mornings to go to work.

I'm scared for all of us. I've calmly discussed time and again with him about the danger but he turns a deaf ear. He's had 3 DUI's in the last ten years and is probably headed for another one soon. DS17 just found H's 'lunch' box yesterday before H got it out of his truck after work, and found a plastic ring with one beer left in it. I'm afraid he's drinking at work now. I'm about out of my mind with this crap!!!

Problem is it's me and youngest DS 17 who will suffer. We'll have nothing if he goes to jail. He's already cost us about $12,000 in tickets, fines, jail bonding, etc., over the last decade. He's spent every freaking penny we've got!

I've finally detached. Just feel nothing except anger most days. And so sad when I look at my 3 children and see what H has done to each of us!!!

Guess I just needed to vent. Sorry for all of you who have been dealing with an alcoholic.


~~"You can't run away from yourself"!!! Me to my H when he descended into adultery insanity.
~~Prov.15:13 "By sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken"
~~"The day breaks-your mind aches"
~STRENGTH~PEACE~HOPE~FAITH

Posts: 9614 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Texas
SierraGrace
Member
Member # 24259
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, June 3rd (Sunday)

I've been reading through some of the Al-Anon materials...what amazing insight..

I had NO idea...no idea of any of this.

Two of the alcoholic's weapons: the ability to arouse anger and the ability to arouse anxiety. Conciously or unconciously the alcoholic is projecting an image of self-hatred against us. If we react angrily the image is verified...

Guilty as charged...who knew?

The alcoholic used alcohol to escape pain by drinking and learns how to use the family to escape the pain of the consequences. Needless to say fear and resentment take over. That is why family members need help, otherwise the entire family becomes emotionally ill.

Do's and Dont's:

Don't treat the alcoholic like a child. Consider this person as if he or she were suffering from any other disease.

Do attend Al-Anon meetings regularly and find a group where you feel comfortable. If there isn't a group in your area, start one.

Don't check up to see how much the alcoholic is drinking, search for hiddne liquor, or pour the liquor out.

Do reach out for help in between meetings by calling members and reading Al-Anon literature daily

Don't nage the alcoholic about the drinking. Never argue while he or she is under the influence of alcohol.

Do remember, we can't control, cause or cure alcoholism

Don't preach, scold, or enter into quarrels with the alcoholic

Do attend at least six meetings before deciding if Al-Anon is right for you.

Alcoholics suffer from feelings of guilt beyond anything the nonalcoholic can imagine. Reminding them of failures, neglect of family and friends, and social errors is all wasted effort.

There's sooooo much information. These are just tidbits from some pamphlets in the Al-Anon materials I picked up.

What's most important is to help ourselves. Change can begin with the non alcoholics...

Major hugs and love to all dealing with this...


BSO(me): 50-ish! How did THAT happen?
~♥~ Fur-kids: 5 Cats ~♥~
Adopt a pet! Save a life!

Posts: 1577 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Sunrises to Sunsets
Crushed1
Member
Member # 6449
Default  Posted: 11:50 PM, June 3rd (Sunday)

Thanks for your post Sierra Grace! I'm going to check into Alanon more strongly. There's a sometimes meeting group in our area and I haven't gotten in touch with anyone yet, so will try harder. I'm in no place to leave...so I need to learn survival skills for me and DS.

Can you answer what you meant by

"Conciously or unconciously the alcoholic is projecting an image of self-hatred against us."

My H is eaten up with guilt over the A and how horribly he's treated us all. And rather than try to stop and make amends, he drinks more and more.

I shudder to think that he's drank TWO 6 packs today!!! He puked on our sofa and then tried to blame it on our two chihuahuas!!! I calmly told him he puked and he still denied. I'm amazed I even have a mind left after dealing with this insanity. I feel so sad for DS, this is what he has for a father.


~~"You can't run away from yourself"!!! Me to my H when he descended into adultery insanity.
~~Prov.15:13 "By sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken"
~~"The day breaks-your mind aches"
~STRENGTH~PEACE~HOPE~FAITH

Posts: 9614 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Texas
SierraGrace
Member
Member # 24259
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, June 4th (Monday)

Crushed1, I am SO new to this myself. By the way, beside Al-Anon, there are groups called AlaTeen for your DS..

What I wrote I'd gotten from an Al-Anon brochure..."A Guide for the Family of the Alcoholic"

Maybe someone with more experience can explain better but from what I'm learning, the Alcoholic is riddled with guilt and shame...whatever it stems from that caused them to drink in the first place.

Here is part of where I got that from:

The Alcoholic's Weapons

The first weapon is the ability to arouse anger or provoke loss of temper. If the family member or friend becomes angry and hostile, this person is less able to help the alcoholic. Conciously or unconciously, the alcoholic is projecting an image of self-hatred against the other person. If it is met by angry, hostile attacks, the image is verified. The alcoholic then justifies the past drinking in his or her own mind and now has an additional excuse to drink in the future. Losing one's temper destroys the chance to help at that moment.

The second weapon of the alcoholic is the ability to arouse anxiety. Anxiety compels the family to do for the alcoholic what the alcoholic needs to do individually before the disease can be arrested and recovery begun.....

It goes on and on and is from a free brochure I picked up at a meeting....

Let's just say, xSO was BRILLIANT at arousing my anger and anxiety through the years...and still is...who knew???

I'm trying to get on a quick learning curve here for my own sanity after all of this...

[This message edited by SierraGrace at 10:13 PM, June 4th (Monday)]


BSO(me): 50-ish! How did THAT happen?
~♥~ Fur-kids: 5 Cats ~♥~
Adopt a pet! Save a life!

Posts: 1577 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Sunrises to Sunsets
Newtwood
Member
Member # 21154
Helpless  Posted: 9:58 AM, June 8th (Friday)

Last night was horrible...H drank about 3 glasses of wine...I don't know if he had anything else. It doesn't take much more than 2 drinks to get him plastered due to the gastric bypass surgery.

He tried dragging me and DD (25) into an argument about trying the mashed potatoes!!!! I wouldn't give in and get into the argument. I eyeballed DD to indicate that he had been drinking so she wouldn't get sucked into it.

It's so stupid, mashed potatoes?, really?....

He then continued to try to engage the two of us into the fight mode he was set on going on about no one respected him, no one listens to him, everyone thinks he's always wrong and on and on...

Finally dinner was finished and I cleared the table and cleaned up. DD went to her room and Mr. A-Hole fell asleep on the sofa like he does every night.

I found an online group Al-Anon on yahoo-can't tell if if it will helpful or not

How did my life end up like this? Where does addiction end...in death?


Faithful Wife of 24+ yrs: Me
WS: Him
OW(s): AFF Skanks/GRANDMOTHERS!!!

Status: Struggling Everday to
Survive

what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another-Anatole France


Posts: 2181 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: North Carolina
heart_in_a_blend
Member
Member # 24191
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, June 8th (Friday)

I've been living with an alcoholic for 40 years. When the loneliness became unbearable I went to Al-non.

My husband doesn't think he is an alcoholic because he can quit if he wants too. His words. The problem isn't quitting it not starting again.

Egg shells is the anxiety that we all feel. I can feel the tension building around 4:00 every day. That's when he has reached the "monster" level or Mr. Hide. He always sneaks alcohol and I hate the look on his face when he does this.

Living with an alcoholic is "crazy making" at it worst. There is a lot to learn about this sickness that we live with. Actually, we become sicker than they are. And that's where Alanon helped me the most. Eventually, I got a sponsor myself. She was one tough cookie and kicked my butt when needed.

I suggest that everyone attend at least one AA meeting. You don't have to speak and always just use your first name.

Just For Today

Just for today I will be happy. This assumes what Abraham Lincoln said is true: 'Most folks are about as happy as they make their mind up to be.' Happiness comes from within; it is not a matter of externals.


Just for today I will try to adjust myself to what is; not try to adjust everything to my own desires. I will take my family, my business, and my luck as they come and fit myself to them.


Just for today I will take care of my body. I will exercise it, care for it, nourish it, not abuse or neglect it, so that it will be a perfect machine for my bidding.


Just for today I will try to strengthen my mind. I will learn something useful. I will not be a mental loafer. I will read something that requires effort, thought, and concentration.


Just for today I will exercise my soul in three ways: I will do someone a good turn and not get found out. I will do at least two chores I don't want to do, as William James suggests, just for exercise.


Just for today I will be agreeable. I will look as well as I can, speak diplomatically, act courteously, be liberal with praise, criticize not at all, nor find fault with anything, and not try to regulate or improve anyone.


Just for today I will try to live through this day only, not tackle my whole life problem at once. I can do things for twelve hours that would appall me if I had to keep them up for a lifetime.


Just for today I will have a program. I will write down what I expect to do every hour. I may not follow it exactly, but I will have it. It will eliminate two pests: hurrying and indecision.


Just for today I will have a quiet half hour by myself and relax. In this half hour sometimes I will think of God, so as to get a little more perspective into my life.


Just for today I will be unafraid. Particularly, I will be unafraid to be happy; to enjoy what is beautiful; to love; and to believe that those I love, love me.


In life, much of what one grieves one never had.

Posts: 3036 | Registered: May 2009
Pentup
Member
Member # 20563
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, June 11th (Monday)

WEll,
Not sure if my H is an alcoholic or not. He definitely drinks a lot and more than I think he should.

Anyone ever get divorced just for this?

I'm not good at thinking "It's a disease". Diabetes is a disease. If I had a spouse that refused insulin, was an a-hole everytime his sugars were too high... NOt sure I would stick around for that either. sigh....


Me- BS
Him- FWS (I hope- F)

Posts: 6251 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Not Oz
burnedcanuckEMS
Member
Member # 35813
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, June 13th (Wednesday)

I need to join this thread!! My WH is definitely without question an alcoholic. Even when we were first dating 12 years ago I saw the signs which I know too well because my late father was also an alcoholic. But I was young, partying myself, and in love. Now he has had an A and we are living separately. Yesterday we talked, he cried and said he knows he is an alcoholic. He still denies the A but I have proof. I think he is just doing the typical alcoholic lying to cover up lies.

Deep down I feel very bad for him. I love him but I know we cannot continue this toxic relationship. I really hope he goes and gets help but that is his choice - when we were together he wouldn't consider it. Myself, I am going to go to my first Al anon meeting tonight. The weird thing is when we were together I was scared to go because I thought it would make him mad. Now we are separating I am going to skip right in that door!!!


Me: BW 38, Him: WH 37
M: 07/07/07
DDay: 06/09/12
Divorce Granted on December 5, 2012 - fasted divorce ever (thanks to my good lawyer) and I am not looking back with ANY regrets!!

"And this above all else, to thine own self be true"


Posts: 215 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Alberta
heart_in_a_blend
Member
Member # 24191
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, June 13th (Wednesday)

I don't think it has so much to do with how much or how little they drink. It's how it affects you.

I used to think the same thing, my husband isn't an alcoholic just a problem drinker. It took probably 20 years for me to realize that he was an alcoholic. Denial on both people is the problem.

I knew I didn't want to leave my husband and was resistant to go to Al-anon because I thought some one would insist I did. Or I would finally have to wake up and realize I really needed to get out of this marriage.

I married my husband in 1972 he was just home from Vietnam. I saw the red flags but turned a love sick blind eye to it. I wish I had not now that I have been married to him for 40 years. It is a progressive sickness that becomes a disease because it affects the entire family.

Oddly enough in 2008 he decided to prove he was not an alcoholic and stopped drinking. During this brief period is when he started his EA with the dry cleaner person from hell.

My husband used to be a happy drunk now he because sullen, brooding and eventually a "monster".

Alanon helped me at first and I gave it a year. After that I just decided to leave and not go back. I have always been a self-help kind of person.

Give it a try and don't be afraid of what they will think, believe me they don't care what you think. So what if they feel threaten by it. This is something that you are doing just for you.

Sorry, this thread doesn't get much attention.


In life, much of what one grieves one never had.

Posts: 3036 | Registered: May 2009
burnedcanuckEMS
Member
Member # 35813
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, June 13th (Wednesday)

Thank You Heart in a Blend and I am sorry for what you have gone through in your marriage.


Me: BW 38, Him: WH 37
M: 07/07/07
DDay: 06/09/12
Divorce Granted on December 5, 2012 - fasted divorce ever (thanks to my good lawyer) and I am not looking back with ANY regrets!!

"And this above all else, to thine own self be true"


Posts: 215 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Alberta
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, June 14th (Thursday)

Pentup - only you can decide when enough is enough. Only you can decide if you can live with the drinking and the lies that go along with alcoholism.

As far as being a disease... it is and a horrible one at that. It's a disease that tricks the mind into craving alcohol above all else and to do anything to get it. BUT, unlike other diseases it is one there is a choice with. Not an easy choice, but a choice. Some are not strong enough to make the choice to change their behavior and take the easier route to blame others and circumstances for their problems. Even if they do stop drinking, the alcoholic behavior may continue... blaming everything else for their problems rather than look in the mirror to see the source.

Take care of yourself. That is all you have control over, not what the alcoholic will do.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
BritChick
Member
Member # 31576
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, July 5th (Thursday)

My local al-anon group meeting is on Friday nights 7-9pm.

By that time of an evening, my H is wasted. If I tell him where I am going, he will go mad.

Our 12 yr old DD doesnt like being left in the house with him when he is drunk.

Therefore, I cannot get there.

But I do access their online site.


Me BS 36
Him WH 38
DDay May 2010

‎"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes" - William Gibson


Posts: 475 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: UK
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, July 15th (Sunday)

Britchick-
I just read this...
so sorry that you are dealing with such a bad situation.
Alanon would be so good for you.
Isn't there someone IRL that you cold turn to to help you out? a friend? or a relative? that could watch your DD while you go to the meeting? and...someone that you could tell your WH that you are visiting?

Is he a mean drunk and acts like this when he is drinking?
or is he always so controlling?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
riverinegypt
Member
Member # 35830
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, July 23rd (Monday)

The more I read about alcoholism the more I am convinced that my path to recovery from recent events in my marriage is to focus on the nature of alcoholic-codependent relationships.

For the last two years, I have been telling my mother and closest friends that I want to get a divorce, but I know that I was so caught up in codependent thinking that I may have stayed in the marriage for years and years, or maybe forever. More than anything, I was so lonely in our marriage. I spent last summer alone in the back yard with the dog. H was "working" 12 hrs a day, 7 days a week at his business. I was completely checked out of the marriage. I also told H last summer that I was thinking about D, and his response was that he didn't think he could ever stop, but that he hoped I stayed with him to the end (made me very sad to hear this on so many levels).

So, in all honesty, his A was almost like a gift to me in that it finally became impossible to stay in the marriage. He has told me that he wants to try to save our marriage, but all the while is courting his OW. He is specifically doing things with her that I have been asking him to do for years but he would not. He is actually taking her to parties and neighborhood events that we were invited to together before the affair! I have been lifted out of the picture, and she has been dropped right in to my place. It hurts that he is giving to her what he would not give to me, but my rational mind tells me that it can't last. He is doing these things to show himself that he really is a good partner, it was ME who was the problem. He wanted to do these fun things all along but X or Y or Z was wrong with me, so he could not enjoy them. My rational mind also tells me that I was miserable in this marriage, he would not give to me what I needed, so what does it matter if he gives to another? HE WOULD NOT GIVE TO ME. That was never going to change.

I have got to get over my jealousy, my rage at the injustice of this. This new relationship will not cure him. She is getting a 21-year maintenance alcoholic with severe FOO issues, possibly NPD, or possibly Aspergers syndrome (his Dr. suggested this possible diagnosis earlier this year). Maybe OW is a co-dependent fool like me and will stay with him for a long time (but he is much further along in his drinking now, and his behavior is more extreme than ever). Maybe she actually does have some personal boundaries (not likely, but maybe) and will wise up and leave him. One thing is for sure, he will NOT leave her. He will cling to her like a life raft.

I just ordered "Co-dependent No More" on amazon and will get myself into al-anon as soon as I am settled in my new place. My marriage was such a disaster. Why do I grieve so much when I remember the little crumbs he threw me? When I go past the restaurants where we sat together, him on his phone, me looking out the window? That is co-dependency, settling for the crumbs.


Me: 43/ stbXH: 43 (alcoholic),
d-day5/22/12, D pending

“my goal is to always come from a place of love ...but sometimes you just have to break it down for a motherf#cker”
― RuPaul


Posts: 170 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: midwest USA
betrayed1012
Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, July 26th (Thursday)

(((riverinegypt)))

It will do you no good to think of the injustice. It is not about you with an alcoholic or a cheater. It is them. It was not you that drove them to drinking nor you that can save them. That is something they and they alone bear responsibility for.

You can't save a relationship by yourself. It has to be two people trying and an active alcoholic can't do that. It is all about them; their wants, desires, and need for validation. If you tried, you'd be called "controlling" by the alcoholic and they would throw it in your face claiming it was you that caused their problems. For an alcoholic it is too hard to face the real problem with them so the search for others to blame like their spouses and family. You mention he will cling to his enabler and that may be as long as this person will enable him to continue. She may be as broken as him... two lost souls clinging onto one another. Not what a healthy relationship is.

Do get into Al-Anon to at least give it a try. Do read the book on codependance. Consider going to a counselor also to help you put what has happened into perspective and to help you with the gamut of emotions you are feeling.

Take care of yourself. That is all you have control over... what you will do.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, August 17th (Friday)

**bump**


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
Cambium29
Member
Member # 36306
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, August 23rd (Thursday)

WBF is recovering from depression + alcoholism + affair.

For WBF and I, it took finally getting him into detox, then rehab, then counseling to make any kind of positive steps.

It's a long, arduous, infuriating, frustrating, heartbreaking, enraging road.

We're at the beginning of our path to reconcilliation. I can see both potholes and positives along the way. Navigating won't be easy but I hope with all my heart that it's worth it.

[This message edited by Cambium29 at 2:06 AM, August 25th (Saturday)]


Me: BGF (42)
He: WBF (43) (recovering alcoholic)
Together since 01/2010.
DD: 06/30/2012.
6 month PA with a 30-ish "good Christian" whore-in-disguise out looking for her meal ticket.
"There is no justice, just us."

Posts: 73 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, September 30th (Sunday)

Cambium-
It is a long, tough journey.
But, it can all work out.

My FWH said on our anniversary that last year was the happiest year of his life.

I kind of looked at him crossed eye when he said that because after all we had been married for 35 yrs, together for 39 yrs and had children together and had weathered many things over the years...

and this was his happiest? 5 yrs post d-day?

well, I think what it is ...is that he has been sober for 5 yrs. and even better he has truly seen the light (with the help of IC and AA). He has changed. For the first time he has been living an unselfish,honest, life.
And he likes the man he sees when he looks in the mirror.

Alcoholics and addicts tend to become very selfish- hence the natural progression to have affairs.

Their lives spiral down into a toxic mess.
Stopping the affair and getting sober are the first steps to recovery.

Working on internal changes via spirituality, IC, AA etc.
is what helps create permanent changes.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Fleury
Member
Member # 24185
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, October 21st (Sunday)

I hate this...hate hate hate hate hate.

I hate what this has done to my life.

I hate what this is doing to me.

I hate what this means for my future.

I cannot believe that what comes in a bottle can be so goddamn powerful.

I am so mad. I am beyond pissed.

I cannot believe this is my life.



What have I done to deserve this life?

Posts: 378 | Registered: May 2009
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, October 21st (Sunday)

Hugs, Fleury.

It is an ugly, horrible disease. It's incredibly powerful. And the damage is so far reaching.

I've just come from an Al-Anon meeting, and I'm floored by all the stories, all the pain and messed up lives.

One day at a time.

Another hug!! {{{ }}}

[This message edited by Compartmented at 9:33 PM, October 21st (Sunday)]


Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2010
TrustGone
Member
Member # 36654
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, October 22nd (Monday)

My WH is an alcoholic. He even admits that he is. He is a functional alcoholic, but when he gets home at night the first thing he does is make himself a "toddy". My XWH was also an alcoholic and quit about 10 years before we finally divorced. He just replaced his drinking witch other addictions. He fell off the wagon after the divorce and wound up in inpatient rehab. I was never a really big drinker, but after I met WH#2, I also started to drink everyday. It eventually had very negative effects on my health and I stopped drinking over a year ago and have no desire to ever drink again. I have tried to talk to WH about his drinking and how that probably contributed to his affair fog. At first, or rather after DDay #2 he was going to stop drinking, go to IC, etc..He managed about a week of slowed down drinking and went to 3 IC meetings then quit.
I know I can't change him and he has to hit rock bottom before he will stop and maybe not even then. I have no desire to go to AlAnon. I spent enough time there growing up as my father was also an alcoholic. I guess my only option now is to get away from it for good and I am working on that now. Anyway, just venting.


BW-50
WH#2-51
M-9 yrs T-11 yrs
4 children-none together
DD#1-9/5/11 LTA 2yrs
DD#2-7/3/12 False R
DD#3-4/29/13 (OW broke NC)
Status: Your guess is as good as mine.

Posts: 2420 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Texas
Fleury
Member
Member # 24185
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, October 22nd (Monday)

Thanks for the hugs!

I need to remember one day at a time and the fact that what happens when he is drinking is not my fault or my responsibility. When he makes a mess he gets to clean it up...not me.

Course that didn't help me get much sleep last night but maybe tonite!


What have I done to deserve this life?

Posts: 378 | Registered: May 2009
Jayne Doe
Member
Member # 32664
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, October 22nd (Monday)

Another one who was married to an alcoholic sending hugs.

I think it is so true that they don't realize what they've done & That the OP is also a drinker.
Mine was always a beeraholic but all of the sudden he started drinking vodka tonics...or should I say gulping vodka tonics.... looking back, it was about the time he started seeing her.

We have to remember that they are suffering from an illness and there is nothing we can do. The change needs to come from them. It is a devastating way of life, and we have to decide if we want them to bring us down with them.
I know my ex will never hit rock-bottom. It always was an issue to me, and it makes this divorce a little easier as I think back to all the times I was pissed that he was drunk.

[This message edited by Jayne Doe at 3:58 PM, October 22nd (Monday)]


Everyday is a blank canvas, and only you hold the brush.
30y M traded in for a POM (pathetic Old Maid 46, 2 kids from different dads. never married)
S 11/11, D final 1/14.

Posts: 1454 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Suburbia, Arizona
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, October 22nd (Monday)

Trustgone-

It might not be a bad idea to try going to a ALANON meeting.

You may have a different experience because you are now attending as a wife of an alcoholic as opposed to a child of an alcoholic.

Also every meeting has a slightly different feel to it depending on those that attend.

You may just find a group where you feel very comfortable.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
SunnySideUp
Member
Member # 3771
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, October 22nd (Monday)

It doesn't take much more than 2 drinks to get him plastered due to the gastric bypass surgery.

Was H a drinker before the surgery? There is new info that men who have gastric bypass surgery become alcoholics.

My XSO is one of them. He was never a drinker. Had the surgery at 40 and by age 42 was drinking straight vodka.

And on the topic of Al-anon, I went to a meeting this weekend. I came away feeling that it is MY weakness that I broke up with XSO due to his drinking. Alanon teaches you and supports you while you have the alcoholic in your life. But I got rid of him.

So I came away with the feeling that Alanon isnt for me. I no longer live with my alcoholic XSO. I no longer have to deal with him.

So, was it strength or weakness that made me get rid of him?


me 45 BS (a 23 year M-down the tubes!)
him WS 51

H had 3 week EA Aug 03 with an 'old GF from high school' D'd 6/07

Failed recovery maybe it was the drug addiction that came up Sept 05? Final straw was the condoms 8/06


Posts: 3932 | Registered: Mar 2004 | From: NorthEast
Betrayal
Member
Member # 9898
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, October 25th (Thursday)

Alanon teaches you and supports you while you have the alcoholic in your life. But I got rid of him.

Sunny, this is a very common thought process when many of us have been affected by loving an A, but the truth is the program isn't about living with an A, it's about dealing with all the effects alchoholism has had on our lives. There are layers and layers to the program and you that takes years to recover. My dad is my qualifier, he's been sober 2yrs and i am still in Alanon learning, growing and helping others as well. My experience has been when we think we think we no longer need the program, that it's at that time, we need it most. Much Peace to you!!

[This message edited by Betrayal at 2:03 PM, October 25th (Thursday)]


Me,38 BS
Divorced
Married
DS Born 9/6/10

Posts: 2220 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From: IL
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, November 14th (Wednesday)

***bump***


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
healingtree
Member
Member # 15467
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, November 26th (Monday)

XWH is an alcoholic. He was drinking when he cheated the first time. White Knuckled it for four years - was committed to R, our family, during that time. We moved across the country, and started a new life together.

But he never got help, and continued down into the depression that happens when you dont.

He started drinking again about a year ago. In Semptember while working out of state, he called and broke up with me. Now I know he was cheating on me, again, here and there where he was working.

It goes hand in hand with him. Cheating and drinking. Just wrote him a long letter telling him that he needs to sober up. I know it probably won't do much good, but he has kids who need him.

Sad sad state of affairs, no pun intended.

Just sharing, another boat in the pond.


FBS 1st D-day 7-11-07, 2nd DDay Post-Breakup in 8-12
HIM - Doesn't Matter Anymore
The only thing we can change about the past is how we look at it.

Posts: 8329 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Here and Now
Dallas2
Member
Member # 28362
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, November 28th (Wednesday)

My FWH doesn't admit to a drinking problem. He started drinking during his A and has incresed gradually. I didn't realize how much he was drinking as he has a fridge in his woodshop and spends lots of time there. He started getting a drink when he came in the house 32oz. glass. When I asked him he said it was mostly ice. I have measured to see how much he is drinking. I fear he is on his way to serious problems(health) and others.

The title of this post caught my eye. I am detaching from him. I don't love who he has become, I know I don't like him and I don't like myself. I worry about him. Anyway you probably know most of what I'm feeling.
I just wonder how many WS were. are or become alcholics and if anyone has a clue as to why.


Me

Posts: 794 | Registered: Apr 2010
Dallas2
Member
Member # 28362
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, November 28th (Wednesday)

My FWH doesn't admit to a drinking problem. He started drinking during his A and has incresed gradually. I didn't realize how much he was drinking as he has a fridge in his woodshop and spends lots of time there. He started getting a drink when he came in the house 32oz. glass. When I asked him he said it was mostly ice. I have measured to see how much he is drinking. I fear he is on his way to serious problems(health) and others.

The title of this post caught my eye. I am detaching from him. I don't love who he has become, I know I don't like him and I don't like myself. I worry about him. Anyway you probably know most of what I'm feeling.
I just wonder how many WS were. are or become alcholics and if anyone has a clue as to why.


Me

Posts: 794 | Registered: Apr 2010
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, November 28th (Wednesday)

There is an 'addictive personality'.
That may be why so many WS do have issues with addiction as well.
Two books that helped me understand this were:
The Addictive Personality by Craig Naaken and Reclaim Your Family From Addiction by Craig Naaken.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, November 28th (Wednesday)

Beyond substance abuse, an addiction may involve any behavior -- gambling, spending money, eating, having sex, etc. -- that interferes with your daily life.

You can consider yourself addicted if…

you get defensive or irritable when people criticize it
you feel guilty about it
you try to cover it up or get secretive
you're unable to cut down
Whatever the source, addictions affect the "reward area" of the brain. Addicts experience a "rush" when they engage in the behavior they're addicted to. The craving for that rush keeps them from being able to quit.

(quote from the American Psychiatric Association)


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Flame  Posted: 4:59 PM, December 28th (Friday)

I am so annoyed with xwh He is not following the Divorce Agreement once again...this is the last thing he has control over me. I don't want to have to lawyer up

Of course, I have to wonder if he is drinking again or is he just being spiteful or both.


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, December 28th (Friday)

It could be that he is drinking again and that's why he is acting irresponsibly.
What is he not doing?
Does it have to do with child support or alimony?
If so...maybe you could change the agreement and have it come out of his paycheck and go through the courts?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
1day@athyme
New Member
Member # 33895
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, February 16th (Saturday)

Is it possible for an active alcoholic BS to process and heal from the affair before they have dealt with their addiction?
He stopped drinking in Jan of 2012, had a sponser and attended weekly AA meetings for 2 months. Then he stopped attending meetings, started finding reasons he couldn't meet with his sponser, went from "I am quitting for me to be healthy." to "I only quit because you and the kids said I have a problem. My friends say I don't have a problem." Started withdrawing again, stopped IC after 6 sessions. Won't do MC. And, in Nov. said he wanted a divorce. Began drinking again, that same day. We are both still here, but it is miserable for everyone. The really sad part is, when he was sober, he recognized how much better he was with the kids (more patient, involved, etc)and he has now reverted back to the angry, loud, "you can't do anything right" dad.

Posts: 8 | Registered: Nov 2011
ToTrustAgain
Member
Member # 15167
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, February 16th (Saturday)

Hello all,

I'm a lurker who feels very nervous about posting on this entire site, but I think that I've finally found my place in this specific forum. Or at least, I hope so. This is the one topic I really, truly relate to, above all others.

I'll try to post more of my story as things come up, but for now I just want to say hello, and I'm happy to have found this thread.

I will say that my experience with infidelity lies in my past, and that I have both been cheated on and cheated on others myself. (Seems to go hand and hand with active alcoholism, IMO.) I'm also on both sides of alcoholism - I AM one (almost 4 years sober, woohoo!!), and I'm married to a sober alcoholic. Alcoholism runs rampant in my family, but so far, I'm the only one to get sober.

Anyway. That's enough for now. Hello and I hope y'all are okay with me posting here. :)


"We will not regret the past, nor wish to shut the door on it."

Posts: 81 | Registered: Jun 2007
ToTrustAgain
Member
Member # 15167
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, February 16th (Saturday)

OH and to 1Day - you asked,

"Is it possible for an active alcoholic BS to process and heal from the affair before they have dealt with their addiction?"

In my opinion and experience...no. Part of active alcoholism is escaping feelings and reality. I know that I didn't deal with, or process ANYTHING while I was drinking. That's half the reason I drank in the first place! To avoid dealing with life on life's terms.

Hugs and hang in there.


"We will not regret the past, nor wish to shut the door on it."

Posts: 81 | Registered: Jun 2007
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

Seems to go hand and hand with active alcoholism, IMO.

This concept of infidelity going hand in hand with alcoholism/addiction is something I've mulled over a lot.

On one hand, totally! OW1 was my husband's prescription drug dealer. OW2 was, if not an alcoholic, a problem drinker. In both situations, their relationships were enmeshed with substances. WH and OW1 never hung out unless he was getting pills. WH and OW2 never spent time with eachother without booze and lots of it. Even when they did cross paths sober (like at work), their feelings were powered by exchanges that had occurred while drunk. My WH's only love letter to OW2 was written while severely hungover from a night of drinking together.

My WH is an alcoholic. Even the pills themselves are interesting because they aren't his drug of choice (that would be booze) but, like other women, pills are an escape. Present him with an opportunity to run away from himself and his issues - he'll take it.

So, that's where I sometimes take the substances out of it and think to myself that, even if he wasn't an alcoholic, he'd have serious issues. He'd self-soothe in other destructive ways. And that's where I separate the issues of infidelity and alcoholism. Alcoholism is a disease. A physical disease as much as a mental and emotional one. But his escapism is not a physical disease. Low self-esteem and needing external validation and ego strokes - that is an issue in and of itself even if the alcoholism contributed to his crappy feelings about himself.

Or is it simply that his alcoholism led to escapist tendencies, i.e. he learned how great it was to escape (with booze) so he found other ways to escape, too.

I'm rambling here, but I would love to hear others' perspectives. I mean, do you see the infidelity as a symptom of alcoholism (just as lying or meanness can be a symptom of alcoholism and not necessarily the alcoholic's true nature?) Or do you totally separate them? I just don't want to get caught in a situation where I blame the booze for the women. Yet, I can't see how booze didn't play a role. My husband is 100+ days sober now and his escapist tendencies are there, but so muted. Very muted. It is all very confusing.

Ahh, this question even affects my own steps in al-anon. Because of the desire to detach and see alcoholism as a disease and to show compassion for the alcoholic. Those things all become more difficult because of the infidelity.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 664 | Registered: Oct 2012
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, April 21st (Sunday)

IMHO there is definitely a correlation between alcoholism and addiction and infidelity.

Not all cheaters are alcoholics but all alcoholics eventually cheat.

I wish I had realized that because I dealt with my FWH as a functional alcoholic through out our marriage and believe it or not the one thing that he used to throw out at me when we would argue about his drinking was that he may not be doing everything that he should but the one thing he would never do was cheat!

ha!

it may have taken him 25 yrs to get to that point but eventually he did.

And...his MOW/co-worker was a drinking buddy (surprise, surprise).

He has said that a big part of the attraction was that she did not judge him for the drinking and instead encouraged it.

Drinking together was always a preliminary to the sexcapades.

So, part of the attraction for him was that she was the opposite of me.

I was his conscience reminding him what a screw up he was while she was his ego stroke who encouraged the drinking etc.

Alcoholics/addicts are also incredibly selfish and insensitive to the needs of others.

Our spouses may have been selfish to begin with but alcoholism makes them even more selfish.

The alcoholic mind blurs out personal ethics and values and only cares about feeding its pleasures and desires.

I realize now looking back that all of his years of drinking binges after work etc. laid the ground work for him to be able to compartmentalize a LTA.

There are similarities.

When he would go out after work he would compartmentalize and not think about home and his responsibilities there.

Drinking in the bar with his drinking buddies, blowing smoke up each other's asses, bragging, etc. was a world apart from his day to day life as a husband, father, professional.

The LTA was similar in that she was a drinking buddy and f-buddy. She was part of this compartmentalized world.

He always kept both world's separate so why not the LTA?

There was also a similar pattern to his guilt about the LTA and his drinking.

After a heavy night of drinking, the alcoholic becomes sober and has to deal with the consequences of their addiction.

The alcoholic often says to himself that" this will be the last time that I do this".

My FWH said the same thing about the LTA.

He said that after an encounter with the MOW he would regret it and tell himself that this would be the last time ....
but then just like with his drinking he would succumb again and repeat the pattern all over again.

It wasn't until d-day that my FWH finally hit bottom and woke up.

I was furious and kicked him out and he knew that I was serious about filing for divorce.

It was as if his eyes were finally opened to how low he had sunk.

He went NC with the MOW immediately and never contacted her again (not even when we were living apart and seemed headed for divorce!)

He got sober and has stayed sober ever since (over 6 years now).
He went to AA and did the 90 meetings in 90 days to start and continues to attend AA today.
He went to IC for 1 and 1/2 years.
He had compartmentalized his life to such an extent that it appeared as if he was shocked at his own behavior.

It's hard to describe this to someone who has not lived this but he actually appeared surprised himself at what he was capable of.

We were separated for 6 months and I did file for divorce but eventually withdrew the divorce complaint and decided to try to R due the changes he had made in himself.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, April 21st (Sunday)

Not all cheaters are alcoholics but all alcoholics eventually cheat.

You think? I mean, I get that they are cheating their families in many ways...but I didn't know all alcoholics cheat in the "infidelity" way. I have a lot of alcoholics in my extended family. If they cheated, I don't know about it. I definitely "get" though how many alcoholics cheat with AA buddies. I can see that sort of dysfunction and mutual desire to escape playing out in an affair.

Drinking in the bar with his drinking buddies, blowing smoke up each other's asses, bragging, etc. was a world apart from his day to day life as a husband, father, professional.

Yes, yes, yes! The blowing smoke up each other's asses rings so true for me. Pathetic.

He always kept both world's separate so why not the LTA?

Another yes, yes, yes. I can totally see this. His A with OW1 didn't start until he got pills from her. I really think if the pills were out of the equation, he MAY have told me about her initial pass at him. Maybe. We just talked about it the other night and he said, "telling you about her pass, even though I wasn't really all that into it or her, was impossible because then I would've had to tell you about the pills." The pills had to be kept from me, therefore she had to be kept from me. And it all spiraled down from there.

It wasn't until d-day that my FWH finally hit bottom and woke up.

Same here, on D-Day 2 (when I discovered OW1 and the pills; I had only known about OW2 at that point and not even ALL of OW2 including the amount of alcohol involved). As soon as I knew all of this, I said, "I want a divorce. And you are an alcoholic." That was the first time I clearly knew he was an alcoholic. I mean, I had considered it but most of his drinking had been functional as far as I knew - and functional drinking is easier to be in denial about. Once I realized how much substances had pervaded his life with these women - who were both co-workers, therefore pervaded his work life - the "functionality" of it all became clear as a farce.

Anyway, njgal, your response was really helpful.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 664 | Registered: Oct 2012
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, April 22nd (Monday)

Maybe I was over generalizing when I said that all alcoholics end up cheating on their spouses.

Maybe not all-but, very many do.

I was one of those wives that never imagined my H would ever cheat on me.

I knew that he had a drinking problem and that was problematic for us as a couple but there was one thing that I could count on-he was devoted to me!

Well, I was wrong about that.

After d-day I read a book by Janet Woititz- Marriage on the Rocks.

It described my marriage.

And in this book the author stated that it wasn't a matter of 'if' the alcoholic would have an affair but more a question of 'when'.

It was an 'Aha' moment for me.

Of course I thought.

Where do guys go to 'get lucky'?-a bar!

why?

because everyone is drunk, their judgement is impaired, they are in a 'fantasy' place.

Have you ever noticed that bars do not have clocks?

usually do not have windows so that you cannot see how late it is.

You are in this cocoon of loud music, low lights, alcohol, laughs, jokes, bragging, lies, inappropriate sexual jokes etc.
Basically one huge slippery slope.

The bar scene is like the commercial for Las Vegas...some people feel that they have a ticket to misbehave.

That commercial-what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas..says it all.

Looking back I realize that any married spouse that spends a lot of time in that environment is vulnerable.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 10:20 PM, April 23rd (Tuesday)

Hi again, njgal. I'll PM you. Our experiences are a bit different. My WH never did the bar thing. Well, he did, when we were young and everyone did. Otherwise, the vast majority of his drinking was at home. I actually remember him turning down things that would be fun, with friends, family, etc. I thought he was just lazy at the time, but he's told me since that he just wanted to sit at home and get a buzz on.

When the 2nd A hit (the one I discovered) - that's when he went to the bar a lot all of the sudden. And was my first red flag. It isn't that he never went to the bar, just that it was an occasional thing that turned into almost weekly. So, yes, I get what you're saying about the cocoon and shutting yourself in and the outside out.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 664 | Registered: Oct 2012
haleyscomet
Member
Member # 38250
Default  Posted: 1:57 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

ToTrustAgain: Part of active alcoholism is escaping feelings and reality. I know that I didn't deal with, or process ANYTHING while I was drinking. That's half the reason I drank in the first place! To avoid dealing with life on life's terms.

This makes so much sense to me. My cheating X-boyfriend is an alcoholic... It hurt so much that he seemed so 'cold'.

NJGal480: He has said that a big part of the attraction was that she did not judge him for the drinking and instead encouraged it... I was his conscience reminding him what a screw up he was while she was his ego stroke who encouraged the drinking etc.
Alcoholics/addicts are also incredibly selfish and insensitive to the needs of others....The alcoholic mind blurs out personal ethics and values and only cares about feeding its pleasures and desires.

This too makes so much sense and is comforting to me.... So many times I thought/felt "Why did SHE make him happy and not me?" and "How could he do this to me?"

He was able to do anything because his drinking protected him from dealing with anything!

Thank you all for sharing.


me: bgf - 46
him: wwbf - 40
lived together 2-1/2 years
dday1 dec 16 2012 found texts
dday2 dec 29 2012 intercepted texts
dday3 feb 20 2013 found texts during false R
status: its over


Posts: 67 | Registered: Jan 2013
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, June 25th (Tuesday)

I wanted to bump this for those that are dealing with alcoholism/addiction as well as infidelity and may not realize that this thread exists.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
libertyrocks
Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, June 25th (Tuesday)

Thanks NJgal. I found it...Ugh, both our chemical dependency therapists talk about the addiction. I just don't buy that story. 8 OW in 3 years because of beer??


Me-BW 35. STBXH-35,active alcoholic, suspected NPD SA. 2 little boys. M 6yrs T13.
Year+ false R & TT from Dday1 Nov 2012 IEA - Feb 2014 count at 10 OW PA's 1LTA (all W lied to) for 3 years that I know of.
Filed for D.

Posts: 816 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, June 27th (Thursday)

The alcohol is not an excuse for the infidelity.
It is just another example of how toxic their addictive thinking is.
Addicts/alcoholics are selfish and focused on escaping from reality.
The affairs are another way to escape.
IMHO you cannot begin to work on R until the alcoholic gets sober and goes to AA and/or IC to try to understand the underlying causes for his addictive personality.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

Thanks for the bump... I knew it existed, forgot it was here. A question for all: Did your WS''s drinking habits make it hard to get an accurate timeline and/or details regarding the A? I know the hard-line here on SI is to demand whatever info you need to heal, and that any ''I don''t knows'' are just Wayward trickle truth or lies. My issue is that my wife has always had a terrible memory during drinking stints.... I mean, there have been times where she didn''t remember conversations we had the night before and a few times where she didn''t remember having sex with me, even.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1606 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
kiki1
Member
Member # 37184
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

Hello Face I like that name My wh often forgets as well. Conversations and sex. oh yes, no wonder he didnt think he was getting enough.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: new york
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

Face- My FWH did have blackouts etc. during the LTA years.

When I would press him about details about the over the top sex acts that they alluded to in their emails he said it was not that way in reality.

Both he and the MOW would get stinking drunk and it would be sloppy blind drunk sex that he could barely recall.

I was lucky (if you can call it that) because the vast majority of my FWH's sexcapades with the MOW/co-worker/drinking buddy took place at yearly work related conferences, workshops etc.so he knew the dates and could go back years listing them for me in his timeline.

But, he did say that he was drunk all the time.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
WastedTime12
Member
Member # 34767
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

I am not even sure I know where I belong! My ExH is an alcoholic, conflict avoidant who was in an on again off again 5 year affair!


Life is meant to be lived, not numbed!

In his quest for freedom, he set me free!


Posts: 61 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Dallas, TX
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

Wasted- is your WH still drinking? Or is he sober? Has he ended the LTA?
My FWH had. 5 yr LTA also. It only ended because I found out!


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
WastedTime12
Member
Member # 34767
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, June 27th (Thursday)

Njgal -

He is still drinking and I do not know if be is in contact with her at this time.


Life is meant to be lived, not numbed!

In his quest for freedom, he set me free!


Posts: 61 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Dallas, TX
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:02 AM, June 28th (Friday)

Wasted-
How are you handling that? the continued drinking?
and the lack of transparency about the affair?
Have you tried the 180?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
WastedTime12
Member
Member # 34767
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, June 28th (Friday)

njgal -

I found this site way too late. Love it.
In the beginning, I tried to beg, bitch, plead, scream, cry, be understanding, wait it out (all kinds of things), I did not know about the affair until 2009, had been going on since late 2008. Found out about the affair when he went to rehab in 2009. He swore he was done drinking and that the affair was over. Couple of months later went right back to both the alcohol and the affair started back up. Found out and kicked him out. My mistake in taking him back just a couple of months after I kicked him out. We went on for a while with him gaslighting me and omitting all kinds of things, not to mention hiding the drinking.

Found out in 2010 he had either gotten in contact with her again or had never quit contact. Threatened to divorce him, he asked for another chance and I gave it to him. He slowed the drinking down and white knuckled it for awhile but he could not maintain sobriety.

In 2011, he was full on drinking again and again contacted her. I filed for divorce, he begged for one more chance, I told him he could have that chance while the divorce was happening. I after a few months stopped the divorce and a few months later he started drinking again. He went to rehab again in early 2012, we started counceling and I thought we were finally making progress.

He decided that he did not want to live sober and that he had been fooling himself for the last (insert however long years here) regarding how he wanted to live his life.

We spoke, decided to get a divorce and he told me and I quote you "I am in damage control now".

48 hours later he was back in contact with her and the rest is history.

While he was busy playing with her, I was busy getting a divorce.

He moved out for a few weeks and could not afford his rent. I let him stay with me for a few months then could not stand seeing him drunk every day, all day.

He now lives with his parents.
I now have peace of mind and it is priceless!


Life is meant to be lived, not numbed!

In his quest for freedom, he set me free!


Posts: 61 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Dallas, TX
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, June 28th (Friday)

wastedtime-

It's too bad that your xWH has decided to continue to drink and live a toxic lifestyle.

My guess would be that the OW was/is also an alcoholic?

That was true for my FWH-the OW was a drinking buddy that encouraged his drinking while I was always trying to get him to stop drinking.
That was a big part of the attraction-the booze.

You did your best to try to help him and save the marriage but he ultimately chose the addiction.

Maybe one day he will wake up and realize all that he threw away.
But,regardless,it sounds like you are in a good place.

[This message edited by njgal480 at 1:48 PM, June 28th (Friday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
DriveMeCrazy
New Member
Member # 39767
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

My why is an alcoholic. I didn't realize how bad it was until we were married. His drinking was the cause of many arguments...and got to the point where I told him I wanted a divorce. This is when his 5 year lta began.

We somehow stuck together, but he continued his drinking. All the suspicious behaviors I blamed on drinking, not an A.

His lta ended prior to me finding out but he was still in contact with her. All contact ended on dday. That is also when I found out it was not just drinking, but drugs too.

He quit all cold turkey right after dday, and we are r. So far, so good.

She supported his addictions while I hated the drinking. She not only bought them for him, but did them with him.


I am the BS, his LTA lasted almost 5 years. Ended immediately on dday. In reconciliation.

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: DriveMeCrazy
brokenandconfuse
Member
Member # 39381
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, July 15th (Monday)

joining this forum too.


2DS, 2DD
BS-Me 32
WH-Him 43
DDay-All 14 years of our relationship. 3PA's, 3 one night stands, and 6 EA's and still counting as we go. Gained enough strength to face it 11/2012

Getting Divorced


Posts: 101 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, July 15th (Monday)

drivemecrazy-
amazing how similar these stories are. My FWH also went NC with the OW on d-day and never looked back. He also got sober and went to AA.
That is why we are R.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Why??
Member
Member # 18132
Sad  Posted: 6:24 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

This sad news re: Cory Monteith from Glee reminded me of my xalcoholic spouse. We are NC but I fear one day he might have a relapse and have something really bad happen. I don't think about that often or anything. This whole story really saddens me. How he actually went to rehab and was getting help it seemed...not that they've given a cause of death. Really hope my x is recovered out there and living a healthy existence. I'm really not angry at him anymore. Hard to believe I would get here...Prayers to all addicts that they can find sobriety and happiness.


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
Spideysense
Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, July 22nd (Monday)

ugh, bad day, i am not sure where else to turn...usually post in Madhatter's...but this forum seems more fitting...short story husband has always had a problem controlling drinking...not an everyday drinker, but when he drinks he cant stop. ive always had issues with it as I grew up with a very alcoholic father (still is). as time went on, husbands drinking turned into not coming home, staying out, not answering phone calls, me loading up kids in car to go find him, wrecking cars, etc. i choose to deal with this in a poor way, going out myself. i recognize that i developed a problem with alcohol as well, wanted to drink away all the issues in my life. life went on like that for much longer than it should have, however i made changes that involved not going out without my h anymore, that lasted for a significant amount of time. then i had my dday. started working through that..then h met OW etc. so we are trying to now work through that (adding-he got his second dui day after dday, because he needed to go see OW at the bar)..anyway...so we have some ongoing issues but i am working hard and although i have had a bad night or two in general i feel proud about decisions i have made and behaviors i have had.
not so much about my h though...then there was this past friday.
he wants to take me out...short story, one thing leads to another, i want to go home, he doesn't he gets angry says mean things, this makes me angry so i say some mean things back. i want to go home, i even offer to drink with him at home, he says no demands i take him back to bar, i do. he sends me a couple texts telling me im a crazy bia. then he stops responding. i wait an hour or so go bacck to bar to pick him up, send him texts im there please come home with me, he ignores me no responses, etc. adding that the people we originally went with are no longer there. so i leave and go home, continue to send some mean texts to him as once again he is choosing the bar and god knows what else over me as i once again sit at home with our kids and worry about who what when where why.
he ends up walking home, he has to be at work 3 hours later, i wake him and wake him and wake him. he is probably still drunk, says lots of mean things to me again and goes to work, continues to text me mean things for about two hours i guess until he starts to sober up at which point i get the im sorry texts.
i stand my ground, so angry at him. but there is still life to live and plans that were made with our children so we move along through the weekend. last night i cant keep it in anymore, im so angry at him. i feel worthless, idk if he is cheating or not, i know he doesnt go out looking but hes a good looking guy and girls come up to him, thats what happened with ow. thing is i cant even get him to be honest about this...he's trickle truthing the events of that night. i say i want to know where he was but my pride wont let me ask him, he yells you know where i effing was (bc i dropped him off at the bar we had been at) i said how would i know thats where you were...you didnt come home for three hours, why would i assume you stayed there? he said where the eff else would i go...i say well x, y, z who knows...you didnt communicate with me. he doesnt say anything. so then i say so who were you with, he tells me i was with bob, i say then who because i talked to bob when i came back up to pick you up and he said he was going to other bar. so who were you with when bob left. then h says oh i went to other bar too. WHAT? you jsut freaked out yelling at me that i should know where you are, i say maybe you went to other bar you say nothing and now because im calling you out, oh yeah i went to other bar? i say why didnt you just tell me that? he says i thought i told you already. i said when bc we havent talked about this. he says when i got home that night. i said really you cant remember what time you came home or calling me an effin bia but you can remember that you told me you went to other bar? are you serious? goes back and forth, h jsut doesnt get it...tells me no matter what he says im going to be angry (ummm yeah i am) tells me hes sorry thats all he can say (umm no) and still hasnt given me any details really about the night...plus we are only 2 months out from his dday.
idk i guess im jsut venting hoping maybe someone will understand. idk what else to do.
he asked if i hated him becuase thats how i was acting...i told him i hate that person, yes, he has put me through hell for 5 years and yes, i hate who that person is. all he said is i do too, but h never makes any attempt to really change. help?

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

Spidey-
It sounds as if your WH's drinking is a problem. It is having a negative impact on his life, his marriage,his relationships.
You can be an alcoholic and not drink on a daily basis.

If his binge drinking is as bad as you describe then it's a problem.
And, if you really monitor his drinking you will probably find out that he's drinking a lot more often than you realize.
You cannot begin to really deal with the infidelity until he is sober.

Have you considered going to an ALANON meeting? or IC?



Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Spideysense
Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

i currently go to IC, H has gone twice to MC with me at which point his drinking and problem with alcohol was discussed. When he is sober he understands how he behaves when hes drinking, he doesn't like it, he knows he makes bad choices, etc. however when we try to go for x amount of time without drinking then he always says lets just have one or two, and that night he may only have one or two so then he thinks ok i can handle it and then the next time its 10 or 12 or whatever and the bad behaviors and choices and meanness all come back...i just dont know how to make him see it...i dont know how to fix this, and hes so angry at me because im angry, like he is sober today and said he is sorry so what more do i want...ugh

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

how would he react if you asked him to go to an AA meeting?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
ToTrustAgain
Member
Member # 15167
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

Hi Spidey. Al Alon would be a wonderful place for you, if you feel up to going.

One of the main things I learned there was that I can't control anyone else - their behavior, their drinking, nothing. All I can do is take care of myself, enforce my own boundaries, and be the one to decide when enough is enough. An alcoholic isn't going to stop until he/she hits their bottom, and you begging and pleading and fighting is going to do crap except exhaust you and piss you off.

I think you mentioned that you developed a problem with alcohol as well - if I may, I'd suggest that you focus on that, and on you, as sort of a 180 tactic. You're not capable of fixing him (no one is, except himself)...so maybe you could spend some time with your IC or in AA building yourself back up. Living with an alcoholic and abusing alcohol takes a hit on our self-esteem. I'm glad you were able to recognize your own issues with booze, and hopefully move forward from them. :)

Only you can decide when you've had enough of the crazy alcoholic roller coaster. (And btw, the way your husband drinks does classify him as an alcoholic -- the cycle of binges, followed by remorse, followed by a vow to stop, and then a "maybe just 1", and then next thing you know, he's off getting shit faced every night again.)

It may also help you to remember that alcoholism is a disease, and not one that a simple pill will cure. There's something fundamentally and biologically different in an alcoholic's brain, that compels him/her to keep on drinking, despite the horrible consequences that keep happening again and again.

You have choices here Spidey, which I hope makes you feel hopeful. I know that his cycles probably leave you feeling frustrated and powerless, but please remember that you DO have strength and options.

(HUGS)


"We will not regret the past, nor wish to shut the door on it."

Posts: 81 | Registered: Jun 2007
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

I got a lot of help out of Al-Anon. I went to a lot of meetings, per my therapist's recommendation. I was trying to hit one meeting a day for awhile. When I couldn't find an Al-Anon meeting, I'd go to an open AA meeting. I got a ton out of those - very courageous people there.

It was hard to accept that I couldn't help my X, but I eventually got it and started to take care of myself. {{{hugs, Spidey}}}


Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2010
Spideysense
Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Thank you for the responses. While I grew up with an alcoholic father, who still is who i have little to nothing to do with, it is hard for me to accept I cant make my husband see it (although I know i cant) but i feel like i should be able to love him into being sober or will him into it or something.
everytime it happens i feel like it takes another piece of me and he sees it as what it was a night out, everybody goes out and gets stupid drunk from time to time.
I do not think he would go to any AA meetings, he is currently going through alcohol counseling classes as part of his dui and while he says according to those classes he is an alcoholic, i dont think he actually believes that. how would one go about finding an al-anon meeting? And could i be a fly on the wall there? I am not very good at being vulnerable to people (hence my posting on an anonymous board).
Thank you again for the advice, Im just not sure how to make this better and I am still angry and that makes him so angry at me, i hate fighting with him. I have an IC appt on Friday, maybe that will help.

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

how would one go about finding an al-anon meeting? And could i be a fly on the wall there? I am not very good at being vulnerable to people (hence my posting on an anonymous board).

I think the best way to find a meeting is to google al-anon and your state.

Yes! You can be a fly on the wall! Usually what I have seen is first-time attendees don't say a word. They are certainly welcome to, but do not have to. I didn't. Another lady I know said she didn't speak for the first six months; she sat and cried instead. I certainly cried every time I shared for the first year! LOL I was in pretty bad shape. It's normal for there to be lots of tears, and they have a box of tissues. At the beginning of the meetings, some read-aloud pages are passed around the table, and you can even pass on reading if you want. No one thinks anything negative. We all remember our first meeting. My friend that didn't speak for six months said the first time she tried to go to a meeting, she did a "drive-by"...drove into the parking lot, tried to peek in the windows, and circled on around back out!

What I did was find an online meeting first. After that, I felt comfortable that I had a sense of the meeting format. Then, my X actually asked if I'd support him by going to an AA meeting with him! I did, and then he went to one by himself and then he quit. I started Al-Anon for me, and that's been very good for me. As I wrote above, I hit a lot of meetings the first year. They were all a bit different because of the people there, but I got something out of each one.

The main thing I got out of that first year's meetings was that no matter how horrible I felt, there was a place I could go where I could spill my guts and find love and acceptance instead of judgment, and get a hug and phone numbers afterwards!


Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2010
Spideysense
Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Thank you.

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

R'ing with an addict doesn't get a whole lot of action, so I think I will stop in here a little bit more.

Drinking was not my fWS thing but men, drugs, shopping, stealing, Ect were. Its all the same right? That obsessive, compulsive, self-centered world that they live in. Always waiting for the next shoe to drop.

We have both found a lot of freedom and support in 12 step fellowships. That is actually my "deal breaker". If her 12 step work stops so does R.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better. Reconciled from the A's but still working hard for a better tomorrow.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2422 | Registered: Aug 2012
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Chico-
I agree with you. I see many similarities between the addictive behaviors of my FWH in terms of alcohol etc. and the infidelity.
A good book about: The Addictive Personality by C. Naaken
I read it to understand more about my FWH's alcoholism but found a lot of the information was relevant to other addictions as well.

And whether or not you want to characterize infidelity as a sex addiction I think everyone can agree that it is a compulsion.
Most every WS describes it as something that they knew was wrong and wanted to stop doing and yet could not.

I am also very grateful that my FWH decided to go to AA right after d-day. That combined with the fact that he went to IC was what saved our marriage.
After 30 years of marriage and 30 yrs of him denying that he had a problem with alcohol-he finally faced his demons and realized that he needed to stop the toxic behavior.

But..as I often say on SI..simply stopping the behavior-whether it's alcohol, drugs, or sexual acting out-is not enough.
Ending the affair is not enough.
They have to change their toxic thinking.
And a 12 step program helps them do that.

ToTrustagain-

Thanks for sharing your expereinces.

Compartmented-
My FWH said the same thing about AA meetings. That each meeting has a slightly different personality in terms of the members that attend etc.
So, it is worthwhile, to shop around at first and visit a few different meetings to find a good fit.
The same is true for ALANON meetings.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
kiki1
Member
Member # 37184
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

(((spidey)))

I understand your pain. I lived it for many years. I knew my h was an alcoholic, boy did I, but i was woefully ignorant of how that alcoholism was damaging me.

I would fight with him, cry, beg him to stop. None of it ever mattered, he didnt/couldnt stop. Ultimately, that addiction ended our marriage and then he had a couple of affairs.

Though we are together, i understand full r is really not possible while he continues to drink.

I have never asked him to stop after dday. why? He had quit once before for two years. When he relapsed at the end of the two years is when all hell broke loose and his affairs started. So i am afraid of sobriety. It doesnt make sense does it?

Crazy making stuff.

You know, i read once that it takes an alcoholic's thinking a whole year to become clear after they stop?

Have you read "codependent no more" by Melody Beattie?

I found it helpful in identifying for me that i am in fact to some degree codependent. It helps to explain the crazy cycle we can get sucked into when we live with an alcoholic. it will help to make you stronger and break that cycle. Helps you to stop worrying someone else's problem and focus on yourself.

I am also a child of an alcoholic, spidey.

We learn to cope with such craziness as children, so when we become adults, alcoholism in our spouses does not seem so abnormal to us.

its just sad, but one we can work towards resolving. its just going to take us longer.

hang on there spidey


Posts: 403 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: new york
kiki1
Member
Member # 37184
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

(((spidey)))

I understand your pain. I lived it for many years. I knew my h was an alcoholic, boy did I, but i was woefully ignorant of how that alcoholism was damaging me.

I would fight with him, cry, beg him to stop. None of it ever mattered, he didnt/couldnt stop. Ultimately, that addiction ended our marriage and then he had a couple of affairs.

Though we are together, i understand full r is really not possible while he continues to drink.

I have never asked him to stop after dday. why? He had quit once before for two years. When he relapsed at the end of the two years is when all hell broke loose and his affairs started. So i am afraid of sobriety. It doesnt make sense does it?

Crazy making stuff.

You know, i read once that it takes an alcoholic's thinking a whole year to become clear after they stop?

Have you read "codependent no more" by Melody Beattie?

I found it helpful in identifying for me that i am in fact to some degree codependent. It helps to explain the crazy cycle we can get sucked into when we live with an alcoholic. it will help to make you stronger and break that cycle. Helps you to stop worrying someone else's problem and focus on yourself.

I am also a child of an alcoholic, spidey.

We learn to cope with such craziness as children, so when we become adults, alcoholism in our spouses does not seem so abnormal to us.

its just sad, but one we can work towards resolving. its just going to take us longer.

hang on there spidey


Posts: 403 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: new york
Spideysense
Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Thank you kiki for the encouraging words. Sometimes i feel so stupid because i see the writing on the wall in regards to his drinking, but i still think i can make it better. other times i feel jealous, jealous of all of our friends that can go out and really only have 2 drinks, why cant he and I be those people.
i know he is disappointed in how he behaves when hes drinking, the things he says, the way he acts, the choices he makes, he is ashamed of that person...but not enough to stop it seems. i just wish i could fix this.

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Spidey, as so many others have said, I feel your pain. I am so sorry to see you hear, struggling with this devastating family disease.

Your H is an alcoholic, no doubt about it. The "I'll just have one or two" is classic - it is called bargaining. The bingeing, the remorse, all of it - it is classic.

My WH is an alcoholic. I was actually in denial about it for years because bingeing/bars wasn't his "thing" (it became so during A#2 for a few months and it was hell). My point is, alcoholism manifests itself in many ways. As in, alcoholics exhibit their drinking in a multitude of ways. What my WH does versus your WH versus any other alcoholic is going to be different, but they are all alcoholics. What defines alcoholism is what a previous poster said - when it is wreaking havoc on your life, then you know alcoholism is present.

In terms of Al-anon, I went frequently for about 6 months until I decided the program wasn't for me. However, I will be forever grateful to the people there and I would never hesitate to tell others to go and try it out. Their stories and their support is a salve to fresh wounds. And their slogans ("one day at a time" and "let go and let god") still resonate with me as I heal. I highly suggest you go. I went to about 6-8 different groups and every single one was warm and supportive. Give it a good, real shot - weeks or even months. If it isn't for you, as was the case for me, there are no hard feelings, no commitment, no failure, nothing.

My WH is in AA. The group is a great source of strength for him. He is also in IC. 7 months sober. If I had begged and pleaded for him to go a few years ago, even after my first D-day...he probably wouldn't have gone. The reason he has been working the steps faithfully, the reason he's committed to sobriety, is because he hit rock bottom on D-Day 2, when the truth came out that he had two affairs before D-day 1. How did he hit rock bottom? My ass was out the door. Literally, I was getting my ducks in a row to D. I'm not saying you should use this as a tactic to get him sober. That wasn't my intent. I just couldn't live with an alcoholic who had cheated twice. It was too much to bear. And, for his part, I think he realized the insanity of his life.

Now that he's removed the active alcoholism from our lives, I feel I can breathe. Maybe, just maybe, I can heal from the As. I couldn't have otherwise. Sobriety is a condition for R.

FYI, there are many people who go to both Al-Anon and AA. As in, they are alcoholics who also have a family member who is an alcoholic. It is quite typical. If you feel your drinking is out of control, you might consider going to AA yourself. You may not be an alcoholic, I don't know, but it is worth contemplating. As someone mentioned, there are open meetings (anyone can go, even non-alcoholics).

I'm rambling here and making this too much about my story, but I found hearing others' stories was helpful. I'm open to PMs, too.

Take care, Spidey.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 664 | Registered: Oct 2012
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:56 AM, July 25th (Thursday)

kiki-
why not try attending ALANON meetings for yourself?

And be open and honest with your WH about what you are doing.

It could be a way to encourage him to try AA for himself.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Spideysense
Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, July 25th (Thursday)

Thank you everyone for your kind thoughts and wise insight. I have nothing really new to report, tonight H is going to his second alcohol class for the dui, and tomorrow officially starts his license revocation. today/tonight he wont be home hardly at all as he has to start his community service and then the classes. tomorrow i have to get up before the sun and drive him to work and rearrange my work day to pick him up. he was a little crabby about his life sucking righ now, i wasnt trying to sound unsympathetic, but im really not, he did this (and while i know that its the alcohol and that does concern me) and i cant get past the, well while i was at home falling apart you drank and then drove to go see OW so you want sympathy from me right now that things suck? no way.
anyway, he hasnt ever had to deal with this type of stuff before, maybe not being able to drive, having to do all of these hours, maybe he will see that it really isnt worth it? am i wishful thinking?
i have my IC appointment tomorrow, i am going to discuss al-anon meetings with her as well.
Thanks again everyone!

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
DriveMeCrazy
New Member
Member # 39767
Question  Posted: 9:35 PM, July 27th (Saturday)

Oh the addictive behaviors are so hard to break. My husband was an every day drinker...he would start as soon as he woke up...and not beer either, but the hard stuff.

I mentioned previously that I did not know how bad it was until we were married. What I didn't mention was when the drinking started. Before we were married there was a time we were not officially together. During this time, I had a brief r with OM. I had been celibate for over a year prior to this r. My now h found out about it and it crushed him completely. I later found out he had been planning to propose to me. He had been very religious...after I got pregnant he got back into his religion. He couldn't be alone with me without a chaperone if we weren't married, but with having a child together and him always being around for her, he decided not to officially be with me to avoid the chaperone issue. I just didn't get it...very young at the time. I still remember seeing his pain when he found out. I ended the r with other man immediately and have not touches another man since. But the damage was done, he began drinking, stopped going to church, was depressed, risky behavior...and it was all because of me.

I didn't realize how bad it was. We did get married two years later. And yes, I was celibate that whole time. When he proposed, I was so happy, I thought he had finally forgiven me, but then realized he still struggled. He was very jealous. OM had been a former colleague, so anytime I had to travel for work or had a late day or a work party he would be anxious and drink even more. But my heart belonged to him. He just didn't get it.

I hated his drinking, but limited my response because I felt responsible for it. Then I would blow up. I wish I had thought to go to alanon myself.

But now I always regret that r with OM, and wonder how our m would have been if that hadn't happened. It breaks my heart.

We are now going back to church, he stopped drinking and drugs immediately after dday. He really has completely turned it around and is back to the man I fell in love with. But I am so hurt by his affair. We have been doing so good, but I triggered hard the other night after reading texts messages on his disconnected phone. I don't know why I did it...and then I said things to him, and for the past couple days he has been so sullen. He didn't deserve for me to say what I said, and at the time I knew I shouldn't have said those things, but it was like I had no control. I was hurting. And wanted him to know.


I am the BS, his LTA lasted almost 5 years. Ended immediately on dday. In reconciliation.

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: DriveMeCrazy
Sissi12
New Member
Member # 37163
Default  Posted: 1:53 AM, July 29th (Monday)

I am curious to know what constitute a functional alcoholic. My husband drinks rhum and coke on a regular basis. Probably a small bottle ( 1/2 quart) of coke with rhum a day or 2 days. He is highly functional, altought has very big mood swings. His mother was an alcoholic. My take is that he is addicted to it and his body is used to this buzz-off state. Please give me feedback on whether or not I should pursue some treatment.

Posts: 24 | Registered: Oct 2012
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:31 AM, July 29th (Monday)

Sissi-

Here's the definition of a high-functioning alcoholic:

A high-functioning alcoholic (HFA) is an alcoholic who is able to maintain his or her outside life, such as a job, home, family and friendships, all while drinking alcoholically. HFAs have the same disease as the stereotypical "skid row" alcoholic, but it manifests or progresses differently. Many HFAs are not viewed by society as being alcoholic, because they have succeeded and overachieved throughout their lifetimes. These achievements often lead to an increase in personal denial as well as denial from colleagues and loved ones. HFAs are less apt to feel that they need treatment for their alcoholism and often slide through the cracks of the healthcare system, both medically and psychologically, because they are often not diagnosed.

HFAs can exhibit different drinking patterns and warning signs at various phases of their drinking. Common warning signs include, but are not limited to:

- Experiencing a craving for more alcohol after having one drink, leading to a loss of control over alcohol intake
- Obsessing about alcohol and the next time they can drink
- Not being able to imagine their lives without alcohol
- Feeling shame and remorse from drunken behavior
- Having failed attempts to control drinking
- Surrounding themselves with others who drink heavily
- Compulsively finishing alcoholic drinks—even someone else's
- Being skilled at living a compartmentalized life in terms of separating their drinking lives from their professional/family lives
- Making excuses for their drinking or using alcohol as a reward for their hard work
- Thinking that drinking expensive alcohol or wine implies they are not alcoholic
- Hiding alcohol consumption by sneaking alcohol before a social event or drinking alone
- Drinking despite adverse consequences (either emotional or physical)
- Experiencing blackouts or memory lapses


I describe my FWH as a functional alcoholic because he always managed to hold on to his professional job and function at home in terms of doing yard work, fixing things, soccer coach for the kids etc.
But, his drinking affected our marriage.Early on-he would go out with drinking buddies after work , after soft ball games etc. It was more binge drinking and drinking to excess.
Later it was not binging. It was not as noticeable to others. But, it was daily drinking.Every day after work he would come home and pour a mixed drink and sit and watch sports. He continued to re fill the glass until he basically fell asleep or actually passed out in front of the TV.
He didn't want to go anywhere or do anything with me or the family. He was depressed, grouchy, and detached.
After d-day when he finally got sober and answered questions about his drinking he told me that he didn't want to go anywhere that he could not drink comfortably.
That he had a 'routine' and that meant he did not want to be too far away from the liquor cabinet.

When I read this definition of alcoholism-the thing that catches my eye is the compartmentalization.
My FWH always did that.
He kept his drinking buddies separate. He had his family life on the one hand and his drinking life on the other.

That compartmentalization came in handy when the MOW/co-worker became one of his work drinking buddies.The LTA became another compartment.
He also said that the drinking was a big part of the LTA.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:39 AM, July 29th (Monday)

Drivemecrazy-

Alcoholics tend to be avoidant personalities. They would do anything to avoid conflict.
They used to use alcohol to avoid dealing with things.
Now that they are sober it's even more difficult to face things-especially to deal with the fall out of their infidelity.

My FWH went to IC for 1 and 1/2 yrs after d-day. Along with AA meetings-this was very crucial in our reconciliation.
The IC helped him to understand how traumatic the LTA was for me and that it was not something that I could just get over now that he was being a 'good husband'.

Does your FWH got to AA? IC?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Spideysense
Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, July 29th (Monday)

well...same story..different weekend. I am getting so discouraged not only about WH remorse for the A, or what I see as a lack of caring in fixing us, but also with the alcohol, and his denial.

we had plans to meet an out of town friend on saturday that we had not seen in a year as he doesn't come into town often. I expressed concern to H beforehand, i love this friend and wanted to go see him, however he drinks a lot and i told H i was concerned that H would want to drink a lot and that he would be mean to me, we would fight, etc. H assured me this wouldnt happen. I was doubtful but i still want so badly for my H to prove to me he is capable of being the good guy so i went along.

We were at a restaurant/bar. We were having fun. The plan was to go out early and be home early. Everything was falling into place. I had two beers, and a shot. I switched to soda after that for the last hour an a half or so. I was perfectly ok with this, I was driving us, i didnt want to be impaired, i didnt want to fight, i didnt want to feel bad in the morning, and i was genuinely enjoying myself even drinking the soda.
I expected H would continue drinking but not to the extent he did. While he was initially drinking beer with me, when i first switched to soda he had another beer, then the beer turns into rum, then shot turns into multiple shots and before I know it he is four drinks up on me and I am angry.
We leave and I tell him I am angry that I dont understand why he needed to drink that much. World War three ensues...ending with what a horrible person I am, I cheated on him, i am choosing to be unhappy, Im a crazy bitch, he's tired of dealing with me. he goes abck and forth between telling me that I am also drunk and thats why im picking a fight (neither are true) and telling me that hes sorry that I am sober and therefore not able to have a good time with him 9also not true). I asked him at one point which one is it? am i drunk or am i sober?

Sunday came and we actually had a very nice family day, no talk of the night before at all. Im jsut feeling so discouraged.

Not really looking for anything just know that some of you will understand.

Oh and to top it off, Friday at counseling, IC told me pretty much she doesnt think hes ever going to "get it"...


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
Sissi12
New Member
Member # 37163
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, July 29th (Monday)

Thank you njgal480,

back to my dilemma on my husband behavior. I do not see everything, but I know he has a bottle of rhum and coke ALWAYS in his backpack. How much does he drink? I do not know. When he has done it in front of me, I saw him drinking 4-5 glasses in one evening. Once I found a bottle of rhum hidden in the trunk of his car. Being functional, it is really hard to measure how serious the problem is. He is an EA emotionally unavailable person. I am getting to the last straw on dealing with this, but I am willing to give it a last try. How can I tell, how much his behavior is driven by his drinking and how much it is just his nature? Any tips? Please help


Posts: 24 | Registered: Oct 2012
libertyrocks
Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, July 29th (Monday)

yikes, that doesn't sound good, hon. Is he supposed to be drinking? to both of you spidysense and sissi12.

In order to R, drinking is a no tolerance in our relationship. He drinks and we're out the door. He knows that. Personally I do not drink bc of my H's silent alcoholism. They cannot be in a drinking environment. H's drinking buddies. Gone.
From experience, they won't stop until something stops them from drinking. It's a brain disease. Alcoholics are always under the influence and just looking for more. I know because it took my H 13 years to stop drinking. The day I left him. Well, he had a few slip ups here and there. I calmly told him his drinking was unacceptable and we had MC the next day.

We now have weekly joint and individual therapy with our chemical dependency therapists. It has helped so much. I've never had a drinking problem, but in order to understand the disease better, we've chosen chemical dependency therapists.

I'm sorry you went through this.

It doesn't look good. Have you tried AA? I think they both have a really bad problem with drinking. And, with alcohol in the picture, they will never be emotionally available until they stop. hugs.

sissi, it's mostly the work of alchohol. I've had 3 therapists tell me so...there's so much to addiction people don't know... :(

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 1:58 PM, July 29th (Monday)]


Me-BW 35. STBXH-35,active alcoholic, suspected NPD SA. 2 little boys. M 6yrs T13.
Year+ false R & TT from Dday1 Nov 2012 IEA - Feb 2014 count at 10 OW PA's 1LTA (all W lied to) for 3 years that I know of.
Filed for D.

Posts: 816 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
Spideysense
Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, July 30th (Tuesday)

I do not think it is ever going to get better. After the fight we had Saturday night which was initiated on his decision to drink in excess...again...last night I was exhausted, i left my house at 5am yesterday and didn't return home until 730pm busy the entire time. Come 9 i was falling asleep on the couch. come 930 my H is telling me he is going to go have drinks with the neighbor for a little bit.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? We just had an awful fight Saturday, im exhausted..why am I exhausted? Oh yeah because i have to get up 1.5hours earlier than normal so that I can drive you to work because you have no license before i come home and get myself ready for my job. and you want to start drinking at 930 at night? the neighbor doesnt have to get up at 530 to go to work, hes off tomorrow, his wife is in the process of moving out, really this is going to be a one beer and home? no, and i know better.
H asks me if i want to go three times, i tell him no every time, why would i want to go, no i dont want to drink, no im tired. finally i get mad say im going to take a shower and go to bed. he just leaves, doesnt poke his head in the bathroom, doesnt tell the kids to go to bed, doesnt ask if im ok, doesnt change his plan, nope just goes anyway.
i sent him some texts, cant believe you went, my feelings are hurt etc. After about 30 minutes and a couple drinks he comes home, proceeds to tell me as im in tears trying to tell him why im upset, he tells me im being dramatic, im over reacting...he's soooo sorry (sarcasm) didnt realize id care...and on and on. finally after much screaming i went to sleep on the couch. after about 20 minutes he asks me to come back to bed (although not in a nice way. what he says is "So you make this big deal about me leaving but you dont even want to sleep in the same room as me?") so anyway i get up and go to bed with him, not because i wanted to honestly, but because i was trying. Whats it going to hurt, if im still mad i can always get up and go back to the couch, but maybe me coming into bed will help him calm down and understand im not being crazy.
So he apologizes, honestly though, it sounds backhanded to me. What he says is "im sorry that you are so upset, i wasnt trying to upset you, i didnt know you would be so upset" to me its all focused on me, im upset my problem etc. a sincere apology to me would have been im sorry i choose to leave knowing you were upset, im sorry that i choose alcohol, friends, etc over you AGAIN. Im sorry i didnt keep my word that i would stop behaving in ways that make you feel like this. but maybe im just being overly sensitive.

anyway, so he apologizes. I take it as an opening and i am trying to explain to him how im feeling because he keeps telling me that im being ridiculous. that all he wants is me and he thinks its BS that i dont believe that. so i am trying to tell him what is happening within our M with his reactions, behaviors, words (nice loving words) that make me feel like i do. He immediately gets mad and says "GD spidey, i just apologized to you and all you can still say is what im doing wrong"
Can someone help me, im not trying to attack him, im just trying to help him see because i feel like he doesnt.
He then went on to bring up my As (reminder we are MH) and how he doesnt trust me etc. i was so vulnerable to him. I gently reminded him that i do not deserve his trust yet, but reminded him of what i have been doing that continues to build trust with him. I think he sees me as this evil force in his life, do i drive him to drink? life with me is so miserable otherwise?
UGH


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
libertyrocks
Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, July 30th (Tuesday)

Spidey, sounds like a horrible night for all of you. He's an alcoholic, sweetie. He won't get better until he stops drinking. And, with your A's, he's drowning his pain. There's probably many more layers to both the damage you have both endured and are still enduring. MC/IC/12 step/AA/Al-anon would be a step in the right direction at this point.


Me-BW 35. STBXH-35,active alcoholic, suspected NPD SA. 2 little boys. M 6yrs T13.
Year+ false R & TT from Dday1 Nov 2012 IEA - Feb 2014 count at 10 OW PA's 1LTA (all W lied to) for 3 years that I know of.
Filed for D.

Posts: 816 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, July 30th (Tuesday)

Spidey- I'm sorry that you are having all this turmoil in your life...but, if you step back and look at everything you will notice a pattern.
And that is...that alcohol is a huge issue here.
If he and you both could get 100% sober you would be amazed at the new life you could have together.
I have never been a drinker so after my FWH got sober it was no problem for me to support him in his sobriety by not drinking.
I basically have a 'new' husband and we have a 'new' marriage.
It can happen..but, like Liberty says you need to do the work...AA, IC, MC.

It sounds as if deep down the two of you do have a lot of love for each other but all of the alcoholic binges etc. are negatively impacting your life together.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Spideysense
Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, July 30th (Tuesday)

thanks guys! cant imagine that i will ever get him to quit drinking but i appreciate the insight.

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
libertyrocks
Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, July 31st (Wednesday)

I know it's hard Spidey. I told myself the same thing for a decade. There was nothing I could do to stop his drinking. That is, until I found out about the A's and left him. Took a while, but now he's been sober for over a 100 days, going to AA and IC/MC with me. I NEVER IMAGINED THE DAY. I thought he'd be a drunk for life and I would have left him. But, we're hanging in there. My personal dealbreaker is if he EVER lifted a finger on the boys and I. Oh, man, I'd have a boot party with my brothers on his a**. lol. He defenitely knows that...

Good luck, sweetie.


Me-BW 35. STBXH-35,active alcoholic, suspected NPD SA. 2 little boys. M 6yrs T13.
Year+ false R & TT from Dday1 Nov 2012 IEA - Feb 2014 count at 10 OW PA's 1LTA (all W lied to) for 3 years that I know of.
Filed for D.

Posts: 816 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, July 31st (Wednesday)

I agree with Libertyrocks.
I was married for 30 yrs when I found out about the LTA.
I kicked him out of the house.
That was hitting bottom for him.
He went NC with the OW, got sober, went to AA, and went to IC.
I had put up with his drinking etc. for 30 yrs. fighting about it etc. and I thought that he would never be able to stop. That I did not have that much influence on him.

I wish I had taken a hard stance with him much earlier because maybe we could have avoided the whole infidelity mess and the hurt and pain it brought along with it.

But, hindsight is 20/20 isn't it?

I am grateful for the second chance we have now for a happy, healthy, sober life together.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Sissi12
New Member
Member # 37163
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, July 31st (Wednesday)

Kudos to you --- I wish I would be at that point.

taking a hard stance - I wish I would have done that.


Posts: 24 | Registered: Oct 2012
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, July 31st (Wednesday)

As I said not too far upthread, same story here - on my way out the door, ducks in a row to D...and sobriety happens. I do know I was the reason he got his shit together at first. 7 months later, I think it is more for himself.

Sissi -

You say it is hard to determine how serious the problem is. You say that he is functional. And I get that - I know what the term means and my WH mostly followed the functional stereotype. Actually a pretty great husband, didn't hang at the bars all the time, rarely falling down drunk, always at work, and so on. But when you peel away the layers - what is functional about it? The guy cheated on you. You said he's emotionally unavailable. The constant need to have access to alcohol. That is a serious problem, "functional" or not. I had to peel those layers, too. Take care, Sissi.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 664 | Registered: Oct 2012
DriveMeCrazy
New Member
Member # 39767
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, August 1st (Thursday)

We have not done ic or MC, or aa of any kind. He had a dui a couple years ago and still has all the paperwork. Books, etc. I am being the procrastinator on the iC, MC because I have had bad experience in the past. He was going to check into inpatient treatment but it was going to cost us thousands which we don't have, and due to income won't qualify for help. He is doing good...he has not touched a drink or a drug. He is working out, he is back to his religion which we are embracing as a family...and I believe he can keep this up...


I am the BS, his LTA lasted almost 5 years. Ended immediately on dday. In reconciliation.

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: DriveMeCrazy
DriveMeCrazy
New Member
Member # 39767
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, August 1st (Thursday)

My last post is so late on this thread...sorry! My h was heavy drinking for years. Nothing I could do or say got him to stop or slow down at all...instead he started going out all the time...he was home every night but gone for hours each day "with his friends" turned out he was having an LTA....he stopped cold turkey right after dday...which was a couple months after he was going to check into a sobriety clinic. He has been sober for 7 months now...hasn't touch drink or drug. I guess they have to hit the bottom and realize their safety net is disappearing for them to change. It's messed up. The drinking is a dealbreaker for me now...if he goes back to that I will be done because I will not go down that road again.


I am the BS, his LTA lasted almost 5 years. Ended immediately on dday. In reconciliation.

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: DriveMeCrazy
truthislove
New Member
Member # 40090
Default  Posted: 7:40 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

I have never dated a person that was an alcoholic, yet I found myself dating a recovering one that states he did not drink for the last 5 yrs. I met him 3 yrs ago, told me he hadn't had a drink for 2 yrs, was devoted to staying sober. Yet....he also admitted that he did not align with the 12 Steps of AA. He briefly attended, and stated it "was not for him, it's a cult". He also shared that he skipped one of the most crucial steps in recovery or in self awareness period as an adult...Step Four...Personal Inventory. He avoided talking about his feelings like his life depended on it. He made himself look politically correct by attending therapy...where he only agreed to going 1x a month. Keep in mind he began drinking heavy at age 20 - his emotional growth stopped there if not before based upon his family of origin disallowing emotional expression. You aren't committed to full recovery if you refuse to address your self or your personal inventory. I wasted 3 yrs with a DRY DRUNK, sober didn't mean a thing, he handled everything the same as if he was still a drunk. Emotionally incapable of intimacy. He quit smoking last year, and focused quickly on escaping deeper into his addiction with secret gambling, then of course, dealing with his anger with sex. He justifies it in his mind, what else could he do? He cannot address his emotional immaturity???? Don't ask that of him!! Don't believe the hype or facade of someone trying to fake it till you make it. You cannot skip getting to know your thoughts, feelings, self and expect to be there for anyone. This man didn't know what he was feeling when you would ask him, it was like the hardest test question for him to answer. He'd say "Your attacking me!" when you would ask what he is feeling, that is how distorted their thinking is when they aren't self aware. It was very deceiving what I was lead to believe and all his friends were fooled too!!
He posts bible verses on facebook and hides behind his "righteousness" praises to God, yet will lie to those he is intimate with and betray them. It doesn't get much sicker than that. The demons this man struggles with are his own, I can't be affected by his distorted selfish sick ways. Be forewarned that a human that lacks the definition of integrity...is not aligning with growth....PERIOD. He admitted that when he was married for 12 yrs while actively drinking he cheated w/numerous women, some also married. Lacking all morals.
Look at one's actions aligning with what they say, what they do, if they avoid self introspection....RUN LIKE THE DEVIL!

[This message edited by truthislove at 7:54 PM, August 2nd (Friday)]


~ When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. ~ & ~ Turn your wounds into wisdom. ~ Oprah

We owe it to ourselves and life to assist, support and serve others. We must remember, however, that we cannot give what we do not have


Posts: 6 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: United States
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

Truthislove-

What you say is so true.

It is so important that the alcoholic/addict does the 'work' in order to truly get sober.
Stopping drinking is NOT enough. That is called a 'dry drunk'.

A recovering alcoholic does have to take a personal inventory and has to do a lot of work to try to understand how he got to the point that he did.

My FWH did go to AA (90 meetings in 90 days at first and then continued going regularly for years. He still attends AA now-6 and 1/2 yrs later), he also went to IC for 1 and 1/2 yrs.
IMHO both were very important to his recovery.

I feel the same way about infidelity. Ending the affair is not enough.The WS really has to do a lot of work on himself/herself to try to understand how they got to such a toxic place.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

I have 10 years clean today. With no alcohol, drugs, or sex outside my relationship.

It was all because of dedication and hard work in a 12 step fellowship. No just going to meetings but following the suggestions and doing the work. 10 years later I am still just as involved as I was in the beginning. It is a life long battle. The person I used to be seems like a bad dream. It is so far from who I am today.
Change can happen!!!


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better. Reconciled from the A's but still working hard for a better tomorrow.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2422 | Registered: Aug 2012
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)

Chico-

Thank you for posting this.

It is a huge accomplishment and speaks volumes to your perseverance and hard work.

My FWH has been sober for 7 yrs and I attribute that to IC and AA.

He still attends AA today.

Like you said it is a life long battle but it is so worth it!

For those that love an alcoholic it is so helpful to read that there are success stories.

Thanks for contributing to this thread.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
cancuncrushed
Member
Member # 28156
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, August 5th (Monday)

How could I be so stupid? This is my first post here. I have resisted this for along time. ANd today, as I read it is so obvious. When I first came to SI, my H was having an EA or PA. We still have never cleared it up. I was so destroyed, it has literally taken me years to cope, he still denies. I was all wrapped up in the A. I would read a post or two about alcoholics, or adhd or ocd. I started very slowly to realize, there was something more. I have been researching more of these, and boom. There it is. Alcoholic. I feel so dumb. I was raised with both alcoholic parents, my father drank a quart of whiskey a DAY!! Thats what has thrown me way off track. All of My familiy members were such bad alcoholics, homeless at times, welfare, they would disappear for days, we were so neglected as children. That was my experience. I just accepted it as life. I never knew of the emotions of an alcoholic. What was causing it..... SO my professional H, successful in his work, active in church, was not obvious like the others. Heavy drinking in college, ( I didnt know him in college) then always a cold one, but nothing like my family. And now I see..... I had to learn about patterns and behaviors of Adultry, and then slide it over to alcoholism to see they are very similiar. Self esteem, escapism, denial, stress. 20 years ago I called him partyman, and made him slow down. We had babies. Now I see the path has always been there. His out of town travel was drinking every night. I thought it was about the women or good times. Its about the drinking. How could I have not known? I told him a month ago he was an alcoholic because Now he brews beer. Makes it look like a hobby. He is giddy about it. Since this hobby started, It has made me disgusted with him. I find myself feeling like I am with my father. I feel this way several times a week now. I didnt even know that I was going to call him that. It suprised us both. I knew I was reaching a new level of understanding. JUST WOW. It was becoming clearer, but it just really came clear today on this sight. I am so depressed. Now not only do I have to deal with post A, alcohol is back in my life in a bad way in him, and its aftermath is just as bad as the A. And lasts forever. ANd comes with more A. I have seen the acknowledgement in his eyes when somebody would admit acoholism in their life. I thought it was from comparing himself, in fear. I see now he thinks so too. And he had a nervous breakdown after the A. We are on the brink of another major hit. He does stop drinking every few years, when I mention something. AS a test, and after a few days, since he sees no physical symtoms, he thinks hes fine. I never really knew about functioning alcoholics. You would think I was an expert with my childhood. I dont know if I can take this forever. Please let me be wrong.


a trigger yesterday

Posts: 858 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: athome
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 7:10 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)

Cancun, I'm sorry you're here. This thread doesn't always move quickly, so feel free to PM me anytime.

Alcoholism is a devastating family disease. Even with functional alcoholics. As you say, the emotional and mental patterns are still there.

Have you considered going to al-anon? You are both an adult child of an alcoholic and a wife of an alcoholic. Many people are in this situation where they marry someone with the disease after being raised by someone with the disease. I would try several meetings. It is a great help.

My advice would be to focus on yourself, find something centering. Therapy, yoga, meditation, exercise, seeing friends. Get out of the house. Get to al-anon. There is no need to make a decision right now as to whether or not you can R or live with an alcoholic. Just care for yourself and find some semblance of peace and, from there, you can sort out your thoughts and feelings.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 664 | Registered: Oct 2012
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)

I'm coming back to this thread to say how happy I am that Al-Anon is in my life! It got me through a horribly rough time, and now I love going! I love being happy and peaceful and knowing that when X lobs something at me, I can call a person from Al-Anon to talk things through, and go to a few extra meetings to get myself back to feeling on an even keel. I'm ever so grateful!

Keep trying different meetings until you find one that you click with and then keep going, even if it seems like progress is slow. It is a "gentle" program, and you can sit and listen for as long as you want, or jump in to share your woes. People are so amazingly supportive, because they've "been there."

Hugs!


Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2010
cancuncrushed
Member
Member # 28156
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, August 7th (Wednesday)

I did try al-anon. It was many years ago. (I went thru a confusing time once I had my own children. I realized how neglected I had been. Crazy, but if its all you knew, you had nothing to compare. You just survive). It didnt work for me. I was uncomfortable with strangers hugging me and pouring out way too much personal info in first seconds. I dont like to be touched by strangers. I have no trust. I dont believe they love me in 2 seconds. I dont think they are after anything, the trust just ends if I cant believe their words. I tried counseling after the A, I am very stuck. She didnt seem to think I had any issues after life with alcoholics. She was suprised, but said I was very normal and balanced. I am now considering another therapist. I thought I had given up on therapy, but stuck gets old. I realize thru this A after 30 years of marriage, my issues are hindering my healing. But I also know, everyone has issues and everyone has trouble coping with A..... I just cannot believe my H has turned into an alcoholic. We spent so much time apart due to his work, I just didnt see it. He was always trying to be a good dad when home. I am feeling very sorry for myself. Havent I spent enough time and paid enough dues in the world of hell? WHen is life not so sucky. I so needed us to be better. And I dont see much light. Thats a symtom for you. But when you live with what I saw, you know where this road is going.


a trigger yesterday

Posts: 858 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: athome
BritChick
Member
Member # 31576
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, August 8th (Thursday)

Hi, new to this thread.

My WH denies he is an alcoholic or even has an issue with drink. And yet I cant remember the last day he didn't have a beer. He gets rip roaring drunk at home on weekend nights - to the point of staggering down the hall, being short tempered and abusive etc.

When he had his a 3 years ago, OW lived a 45 minute drive away. He would go and see her once a week, saying he was playing pool with friends. After DDay, I asked him why he was able to go without a drink the nights he had been to see her. He said Its cos he didn't need a drink to be with her.

It was heart breaking but a lot of nasty things were said at the time, so it kind of got lost in the battle, as it were.

A few weeks ago, the kids stayed over a friend house, so we had the house to ourselves. He had had the normal amount of alcohol and so was spoiling for a fight - our usual Friday night entertainment!

Anyway, I asked him about his drinking again and asked him how he could not see that his alcohol use was at the centre of all our fights and fallings out.

I cant remember who said it, possibly him, may be me, but it was mentioned about him having to drink to be with me and that he didn't have to with the OW. 3 years after dday, it ripped my heart out. I cried and cried. He said Sorry but then said again a few minutes later Truth hurts, does it?

So I started planning my exit - waiting for the kids to break up from school, get some money organised etc.

On Tuesday this week, we were having another discussion and I said to him how hurtful those words were. I said that he could make up for those words by giving up alcohol to show he doesn't need it to be with me. He said No. That he would give it up when I start being more loving!!! I said Why would I be more loving to someone who says they need alcohol to be with me and call me names?

He went to alcohol support meetings after dday and did switch to non alcoholic beers. But when he had the occasional alcoholic beer, he was still an arsehole. He stopped the meetings after a month or so. I think he thought his feet were back under the table and so he didn't need to make an effort anymore.

Everyone says he drinks too much, so I know its not me nagging or over reacting. He had some health checks done lately and they showed his liver function was fine. He sees this as a green light to carry on drinking.

Then there is the financial cost of it. We are so low on finances at the moment and yet he will spend ever last penny on beer and cigarettes. Our 15 yr son wants to go to a drifting event this weekend and WH has told him we cant afford it. Yet he spent the price it would cost to go to the event on beer and cigarettes in 3 days last weekend

I want out - I don't want to live my life like this any more. I don't want to my children having to look after their father every weekend when he is drunk - getting him to bed, fetching his beers when he orders them to do so, being afraid to say anything cos he will go off on one etc.

Sorry, just wanted to moan!!!


Me BS 36
Him WH 38
DDay May 2010

‎"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes" - William Gibson


Posts: 475 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: UK
cancuncrushed
Member
Member # 28156
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, August 12th (Monday)

Yep. I really believe I am onto this alcoholic thing. Our anniversary is soon. He secretly planned a vacation to NM. Normally I would be estatic. Vacations are not so fun anymore. Last night we were discussing this trip. I was angry with him. He also secretly planned a dinner with a coworker, and his wife. Never told me. I asked why. I didnt know him, and never met her. This is our wedding anniversary, why spend it with coworkers? We have 5 nights only. Why waste one? We are seeing two cities. His first reply was to get tips and suggestions for vacation. I recommended email. Then.....he mentioned this coworker is also a beer brewer.......We were going to his house. To see, taste, talk and experience his beer. Now I feel this is the only reason why he picked this location. Last year, I mentioned this area, and he threw a tantrum and said hes only husband who has to look at turquoise and eat mexican for vacation...... Everyone else gets to golf and party. I was not that set on it. We did not go. So now, he planned this on his own. I am still sensitive about those remarks about NM. I am not convinced he had a change of heart. I didnt ask to go. ANd I find out we are spending our first night beer tasting at a friends house? He defended that this was a good friend. I checked his phone. They do not text. He doesnt even own his email address. This guys job is computers.????? No recent phone calls. They are not close friends. I clearly remember several snarky remarks made by my H about this guy. Its all about the beer. He likes him now because he makes beer. This trip is tolerable, because he can take this time and go try beer. And while we were arguing about it, he had 6 beers. Some extra tall, all 8 point. Alot of homemade beers are stronger. This beer making is not good. Its consuming him and his thoughts. Point is, he planned this vacation. And its based on lies. Since the children no longer travel with us, we have drinks, every night. I get tired of it and switch to tea. I just see more drinking. Everywhere. And the golf? He golfs, then drinks . He likes BBQ's, and drinks. He likes parties, and drinks. The activity never matters. Mostly, he just sits there, talks, and drinks. Thats fun for him. He likes people to listen and be with him. Just as long as everyone drinks. I am seriously considering stopping drinking. To set an example for him and our family. ANd to draw a line. He is now getting pushy. Ordering me one, when I said I didnt want one. Opening two, at once, and handing me one. I am stubborn. That makes me rebel. And this is just the alcohol side of vacation; i havent even mentioned the staring at young girls. Vacations are no longer fun. I keep trying. I couldnt accept this at first. And yet, its more obvious each trip....Vacations were my special dream. I dont like it anymore. I am considering cancelling the trip, if we are not obligated by money.


a trigger yesterday

Posts: 858 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: athome
cancuncrushed
Member
Member # 28156
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, August 12th (Monday)

And I know that stopping my drinking, even tho it isnt much, will start world war III. It will make him hate me, resent me, stay out, etc. In other words, he will act out. Its going to get worse instead of better. I am not up for worse. He will look for a drinking partner eventually.


a trigger yesterday

Posts: 858 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: athome
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 2:37 AM, August 13th (Tuesday)

Brit and cancun-
So sorry for all the pain that you are going through.
I hate what alcohol does to people, families, marriages......
It destroys so much.

Cancun- after DDay my FWH got sober ( finally). Went to AA and IC. It was life changing for him , me , our family.

Such a simple thing -stopping drinking and yet it had such far reaching effect.

When I asked my FWH about his behaviors during his LTA and even before .... Why he didn't want to go to various family events or go on vacation or even go to a movie with me.....and it was always alcohol.
He couldn't drink the way he wanted to so he would prefer to stay home and drink. He had a routine.
And yes I did not drink with him and one of the things that made the OW so attractive was that she was a party animal and did not judge his drinking like I did. Instead she encouraged it.

But.... Is that really a reason for you to continue drinking when you do not want to?

I hope you do find a new IC. I needed to see my IC for 4 yrs after d day!
She was a life saver.
And about Alanon....every meeting has a slightly different feel because it is made up of different people.

Maybe if you try out a few different meetings you may find one that is a better fit?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, August 17th (Saturday)

Does anyone else feel like other people (WS's friends/family) look at you like you're crazy if you try to talk about your WS drinking habits? I've never really broached the subject fully, but I've tried to drop hints about the amount that she drinks, and her friends just blow me off.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 2:23 PM, August 17th (Saturday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1606 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, August 17th (Saturday)

Brit - Oh, my heart hurts for you. What hurtful things he says. And he's blameshifting, you know that, right? Typical for alcoholics. "I have to drink because you..." fill in the blank. He is taking the focus off his crushing habit and putting it on you. My WH did it all the time in arguments - shifting it somehow so I'd be on the defense.

If you're ready to go, do it, but be sure that you're really ready and willing and prepared. Please, however, don't use it as a bargaining chip with him,i.e. "quit drinking and I will stay." This doesn't work out well most of the time and ends up creating a cycle where you threaten something, he gets "better" and then it goes down hill and you threaten again. You can still support him while separated if he chooses to start the journey of sobriety.

If you leaving is his rock bottom and he gets sober, so be it. You can choose to re-enter the relationship down the road, after much progress and healing.

Facepunched - I didn't have that issue. i wouldn't say people thought my WH was a raging alcoholic (functioning) but they knew he could put away quite a few and they knew his father and grandfather were alcoholics. So when we told people, they were mildly surprised but sort of, "well, that makes sense. Good on you." I don't understand how people can't be supportive. Hell, even if someone is NOT an alcoholic and gives up social drinking - more power to 'em. Why not?


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 664 | Registered: Oct 2012
ToTrustAgain
Member
Member # 15167
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, August 18th (Sunday)

FacePunched --

Could it be that they are her drinking buddies, and see nothing wrong with how much she's drinking?


"We will not regret the past, nor wish to shut the door on it."

Posts: 81 | Registered: Jun 2007
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Could it be that they are her drinking buddies, and see nothing wrong with how much she's drinking?

Kinda/sorta. Mostly, the issue is that they're single and in their early-mid twenties, whereas we are married and in our 20s/30s, so their view of drinking is skewed by their age/social group, y'know? My wife has never been a huge "go out and drink" type of person....though perhaps she would've been if not for being married with a child. Her drinking is more of the variety of high-functioning.....does well at work, is well-liked, super nice....but then at home just gets wasted, and I'm left to deal with all the emotional mood swings, not them. My wife is super mild-mannered normally, and so everybody tries to get her to go out and have a drink after work, and when that happens and she cuts loose a little bit and they see her become a little more relaxed and vocal, they think it's funny or cool. I think they all view her as this buttoned-up tight ass who never relaxes, and I tend to be more high strung and combative, so if I say anything at all about her drinking habits, I just look like an controlling ogre to them, you know? Poor her, with the husband who won't let her relax with her friends.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1606 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Facepunched-
I think that many people do not know enough about alcoholism to recognize it.

They assume that an alcoholic is a homeless person on the street.

They do not realize that the person sitting next to them at the office could be an alcoholic that needs to have a beer in the morning to steady his/her shaky hands and then has another drink at lunchtime etc.

Or an alcoholic could be someone that binges only on weekends to the point of blacking out.

Or...it could be a functional alcoholic like my FWH that was the life of the party but also would begin drinking sometimes at lunch with co-workers, then at happy hour after work, then a drink at home....
same on weekends..it would start with a beer at lunchtime and then it would be steady drinking through the afternoon/evening.

My children never realized that he had a drinking problem because I protected them from it.

They just knew that he fell asleep in front of the TV every night (passed out).

I agree with you-it could be that the friends like to drink also so they do not see it as a problem.

If it interferes with their life and causes arguments, problems etc. and they cannot stop (even if its just giving up their 2 beers after work every day)then they have a drinking problem.

But, people often don't see it.

My FWH's MOW/coworker/ drinking buddy was a fall down, fall off the bar stool drunk when she went out with her work buddies and went to the work conferences etc.
My FWH described her as an alcoholic ( it takes one to know one).

When I spoke to the MOW's BH after d-day and told him that she was an alcoholic like my husband-he denied that she had a drinking problem!

Yet,later he described their marriage as her coming home from work and taking a plate of food and a beer up to the bedroom alone.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, August 22nd (Thursday)

It just sucks....because when you combine this aspect with the tearing down of me my WW did to her friends during the A, I come off looking like the crazy one.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1606 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, August 22nd (Thursday)

FPunched-

Does your WW still socialize with all of these drinking buddies? does she still drink?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, August 22nd (Thursday)

1) Yes. She doesn't hang out with them socially, but we're (all of us) co-workers, and she's still on friendly terms with them. It's actually just one friend in particular. I've voiced my unease about this to both my WW and our MC and there was an argument about it.

2) Yes. Not usually like it was before, but sometimes.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 10:46 AM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1606 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 4:49 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

I've voiced my unease about this to both my WW and our MC and there was an argument about it.

Defensive and attacking is not a remorseful way to handle your unease.

Do the two of you have an agreed upon list of FOM?

[This message edited by Chicho at 4:52 AM, August 24th (Saturday)]


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better. Reconciled from the A's but still working hard for a better tomorrow.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2422 | Registered: Aug 2012
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

Defensive and attacking is not a remorseful way to handle your unease.

Agreed. Truth be told, it wasn't really coming from my WW, moreso from the MC. Attack would be strong word for what happened, but I think my MC feels like I'm trying to 'control' my WW by dictating who she can and cannot hang out with. If I'm being honest with myself, I probably need to be clearer about my boundaries. I think the whole topic of consequences and boundaries feels to me like I am trying to control my WW's actions, you know?

This probably belongs in 'General' more than anything, but basically, the MC and I disagreed on the FOM concept. I think that our MC is on the same page in that if there were someone who she was friends with who actively encouraged the affair that person should not be around, but where we part ways on the subject of this particular person is that while she didn't encourage it per se, she knew about it, she knew/knows me and our son, and I feel like her knowing about it for several weeks at least before I did and not saying anything to me about it is cause enough to move her out of the FOM category at the very least and into the realm of "general aquaintance." The fact that she has been, on occasion, my WW's drinking buddy just adds fuel to the proverbial fire.

Do the two of you have an agreed upon list of FOM?

No.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 11:35 AM, August 24th (Saturday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1606 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, September 2nd (Monday)

FP- yea this might get better response in General. Our FOM list is mutually agreed upon. People on the list view us as a couple not as two individuals. If pressed they would chose to defend the integrity of our relationship as opposed to picking sides. They would be honest enough to call either of us out on behaviors that would be detrimental to our relationship.

I might look into a new MC


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better. Reconciled from the A's but still working hard for a better tomorrow.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2422 | Registered: Aug 2012
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, September 2nd (Monday)

hmm... I think that drinking buddies and FOM (friends of marriage) can be two different categories.
I think that many people are in denial about being alcoholics and they do not realize how much better their lives would be if they could get sober once and for all.
So many people think that they can 'control' their drinking and/or still drink socially or switch to beer or wine from hard liquor and that will do the trick.
Unfortunately, they usually find out that they are wrong and the toxic, alcoholic thinking and drinking takes over again.
That's where continuing to hang out with former drinking buddies does not work.
I've said it before...but IMHO after infidelity all the rules change.
In my house that meant that anything that got him into the mess of the affair had to change.
No facebook friends, no going out with 'the guys', no more secrets, transparency in all passwords, cell phone usage, you name it.
And most of all - no more drinking or drugs-ever.
That part of his life was over.
And he would be the first to tell you that he loves his new life.

Now...as for FOM....I would consider someone that knew about the affair and encouraged the affair or helped the WS get involved in the affair as someone who was NOT a friend of my marriage and someone I would not want in my life.
However....just knowing about the affair and not telling you may not mean that the person was in favor of the affair or did not support your marriage.
Ironically, right before my d-day I found out about a very close friend's affair and her d-day.
I knew all the details. And I did not contact her husband.
I was a good friend of his also but because I had no experience with infidelity I did not know how to react.
I did not encourage my friend, instead I did warn her and discourage her behavior.
But...my reaction was nowhere near as extreme as it would be today after experiencing the pain of d-day myself.

Infidelity is one of those things that until you experience it yourself you really do not understand it at all.

My friend's husband has continued to give me the cold shoulder ever since.
I was a friend of their marriage and was rooting for their marriage to survive.
Unfortunately, my girlfriend did not go that route.

So...I just wanted to give that insight.
Not sure if your situation is similar or not.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
cancuncrushed
Member
Member # 28156
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, September 3rd (Tuesday)

What a weekend. We spent the time moving my son to his apt. Its A 3 hr drive. My H, immediately drives to store, when truck was unloaded, and buys beer. Just disappeared. Then, He passes them around. Everyone had that suprised look, .....we were all busy unpacking. It was awkward. H had a couple of beers. Then we went for supper. He decided to drive the truck and trailer, since it was closer to hotel. Save a trip. He drove up a dead end street by accident, and he has no experience on how to back up a trailer. I get out to watch in back and side, I instruct him to watch front and other side. Yep. he damaged the trailer. ANd panicked. Blamed me. Said I should have watched the other side and front also. It was all my fault. ... I was in shock. I went off on him in a quiet , cold, way. I pointed out, the above conversations, then I pointed out his drinking, while he should be working. Everyone else was working. COMPLETE DENIAL. COMPLETE BLAME. WE parked at hotel, and son drove to restaurant. H drank a tankard. His anxiety was thru the roof. He used to hide his drink from the kids. Now, not so much. His drinking has escalated in the last few years. I see a spiral. Hes at that place. His panic is over the money he might have to fork out for repairs. His panic is always money. which leads to more beer. And its my fault. I am hoping this might be the thing to make him stop and think. He seems to be embarassed alot lately. I am hating how my world is spinning to an even uglier place. Hes a child.


a trigger yesterday

Posts: 858 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: athome
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, September 3rd (Tuesday)

What a weekend is right!
He put you and your children at risk by driving drunk as well as other innocent bystanders.
It sounds like your children have had enough of his drinking too.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
cancuncrushed
Member
Member # 28156
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

I am always against drinking and driving. he had two beers. Then my son drove. The whole trailer thing made it all obvious. But it was the need for two beers. WE had purchased a house warming gift and cash gift for my college son. Its his first apt. ANd my H couldnt get to the store fast enough to buy beer. NObody even knew where or why he left. He bought cookies and beer???? We had just stopped at station/grocery for gas on the way. It was very impulsive. ANd single focused. It was strange. ANd he wasnt even there to see son open gifts. He so self centered. I am wondering if he has focus issues. These seem to be worse since mid-life. We have been married 29 yrs. He is so different. I analyze everything, read everything. I dont know what is stress, alcohol, EU, ADHD or OCD,. There are too many choices. ANd they look alike. Hes in his own world with his beer. Just pours it and smiles, and tastes it, its heaven. ANd so unaware of the outside world. Its happening alot. I have mentioned to him in calm normal conversation, I really believe he is a alcoholic. His face was shocked. He didnt say a word. Now, he will leave, in midsentence, when I or anyone else is talking, and go get a beer in frig. Same example. He is in his own world. DEcided to get a beer. Hes not even aware somebody is talking. Beer is on his mind. So single focused. I had to start the same conversation over 3 times. Twice he walked away cause he was making beer, once he walked away to go get another beer. I stopped talking. I wall up. I just want to let him have his own experience. I cant fight this fight ontop of EA or A. im really exhausted.


a trigger yesterday

Posts: 858 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: athome
cancuncrushed
Member
Member # 28156
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

Brit..... you know this is not about you. It hurts, it feels directed toward you, but its not you. Its about escaping. He escapes thru alcohol, and when he see OW, he doesnt need alcohol, because she is also an escape. But its still escaping. He has to learn what he is escaping from. What pains him. Its not you. Its guilt, shame, self esteem. I hate we have to be kicked while we are down, and they have choices every day and choose the painful ones. ANd we have to study, learn how to cope afterward. ITs just not worth it really. It seems so childish to me now. I dont make any crazy decisions like WH do. And I can surely use an escape right about now.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 11:15 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)]


a trigger yesterday

Posts: 858 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: athome
scaredyKat
Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)

OK, need some centering here. DS had 19 mos of sobriety, drank, DWI (first one ever) seems to have gotten back on track, dealing with aftermath, upped his meeting attendance, etc. But, he's being an a$$hole to us. Rude, short tempered, avoiding us etc. I get that he is embarrassed, angry at himself, blah,blah,blah, but the main issue is that I'm going away next week and I was depending on him for a few things, cat and house sitting mostly. He's being so nasty, I don't know if I should just disengage totally. Any insights?
Watching your kid hurt is harder than dealing with infidelity...


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2921 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

Could be 'dry drunk' behavior.
Stopping drinking is not enough.
The alcoholic really has to do a lot of work on himself/herself to figure out how to deal with the world without relying on alcohol and how to become a better person.
Are you sure he's going to AA meetings? Does he have a sponsor? Has he ever gone to IC?
Have you tried going to ALANON meetings?
here is a description of a dry drunk from AA:

The term "dry drunk" therefore denotes the absences of favorable change in the attitudes and behavior of the alcoholic who is not drinking, or the reversion of these by the alcoholic who has experienced a period of successful sobriety. From these conditions, it is to be inferred that the alcoholic is experiencing discomfort in life.

The self-destructive attitudes and behavior of the dry drunk alcoholic are different in degree but not in kind. The alcoholic, when drinking, has learned to rely on a deeply inadequate, radically immature approach to solving life's problems. And this is exactly what one sees in the dry drunk.

ANALYSIS OF DRY DRUNK BEHAVIOR The alcoholic who rationalizes their own irresponsible behavior are also likely to find fault in the attitudes and behavior of others. Although not denying their own shortcomings, they attempt to escape notice by cataloging in great detail the transgressions of others.

The classic maneuver of the dry drunk is over-reaction. The alcoholic may attach a seemingly disproportionate intensity of feeling to an ordinary insignificant event or mishap.

Some alcoholics who experience the dry drunk seem to know all the answers, are seldom at a loss for words when it comes to self-diagnosis. Their knowledge is quite impressive, their apparent insight, as opposed to genuine insight, is convincing.

CORRECTIVE MEASURES: #1 Go To Meeting. Those undergoing a dry drunk lead impoverished lives. They experience severe limitations to grow,, to mature, and benefit from the possibilities that life offers. They lack the freshness and spontaneity that genuinely sober alcoholics manifest. Their life is a closed system, attitudes and behaviors are stereotyped, repetitive, and consequently predictable.

Alcoholics learn early that humility and a power greater than them- selves are the bedrock for a genuine and productive sobriety. An unusual measure of self-discipline must accompany the ego deflation process. Needed is self-discipline in honesty, patience and responsibility towards the recovery process [and acceptance of their disease]. [To improve long term goals of sobriety be aware of mental stressors, get more involved in the recovery program, get active in the 12 steps, get and use a sponsor, talk things out.] Hopefully. they will begin to appreciate the ironic folly of those alcoholics who think life has suddenly become manageable again; whose sanity is beyond question; who see no need of turning their lives over to a power greater then them- selves; who find personal inventories unnecessary since they are seldom in the wrong and are no longer subject to the embarrassing need of repairing the wrongs they have done.

When dry drunk alcoholics awaken to this irony that they, still unmanageable, still powerless, are the ones who have made this remarkable "recovery," they may feel sufficiently mortified to want to change.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
scaredyKat
Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Thanks. That's scary stuff. And I don't know the answers to much of it. He is going to meetings, he MUST, required by the monitoring agency he has signed up with, who also does random blood and urine tests, has a new sponsor.
I had a talk with him. My point was, we are leaving this to you, this is your problem, your recovery. We will honor your request to stay out of it. But our worry is that he might hurt himself instead of reaching out for help, as he seemed to be isolating. He was comfortably adamant that he would not hurt himself, that he recognized that things could be a lot worse. He confirmed that he was back on track. I told him I respected his privacy, was there if he needed me, and would let go and let God...

Prayers are flying from this girl.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2921 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, September 27th (Friday)

scaredy cat-
would he consider going to IC as well as AA?
maybe if he had someone that he could talk to one on one it would help with the depressions symptoms, isolation etc.
And you would feel safer because you would know that he is talking to someone about his worries etc.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, January 3rd (Friday)

Bumping this thread for those that may not realize it is here.
It may be helpful after New Year's Day and the holidays for those dealing with this issue.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
cancuncrushed
Member
Member # 28156
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, January 6th (Monday)

H and I took a long weekend trip. While making the drive, we discussed the boundaries I need as far as alcohol. I pointed out to him his alcohol problems, what he needed to do, what was required for me. And I indeed believe its getting worse. It was not planned, it just came out. Overflow. He not only has issues, he is uneducated and in denial about what an alcoholic can be. As long as he doesnt get shakes, he must be ok. He was angry, but held a decent conversation about it. I didnt realize how uneducated he really is about this. Denial for awhile.
I think he heard me. He is making great efforts. We actually had a great time afterward. Which is shocking. No drinking. And it was New Years Eve. His anger turned into agreement.
I realize this is not enough. I know it will relapse. I know this struggle is along road. (both my parents were Alcoholics)Our old habits of living are returning now that we are at home. His work travel will return very soon. But, he heard me. He seems to hear me these days. ANd questions himself. Thats a small step. Then he shows me articles of doom and gloom of future social security and future of US economy. Not sure if hes pointing out his stress or a reason for me to stay. He believes the world is in alot of trouble. I was happy for the small acknowledgement and great weekend.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 2:19 PM, January 6th (Monday)]


a trigger yesterday

Posts: 858 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: athome
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, January 6th (Monday)

It's great that he is open to discussing these issues with you.
Talking about it and admitting that there is an alcohol problem are the first steps.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
silentscream13
Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I just want to say thank you for this thread! I found out about my WH's short-term online affair almost 60 days ago. This has been an awful roller coaster ride. Thankfully the day after I caught him he turned himself into treatment and has begun recovery. I come from a family with recovering alcoholics, so I am familiar with the programs out there. I am just angry at myself that I did not utilize the tools I grew up knowing to deal with the alcoholism's affect on me and our children.

Now I am dealing with his new sobriety and his infidelity. I have been angry for so many years over his drinking and when I found out about his A all my anger compounded into rage.

I read through both threads and I just wanted to say thanks to all of you for sharing. It is helping me deal with both issues and to heal.


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 182 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: USA
gutfeeling
Member
Member # 41652
Default  Posted: 6:26 PM, January 9th (Thursday)

Has anyone's spouse been successful on a moderation plan? For how long?

Thanks


Posts: 72 | Registered: Dec 2013
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:29 AM, January 10th (Friday)

silent scream-
I am ACOA ( my mother is an alcoholic) and like you say ....I should have known better.
But, also like you -I put up with a lot of very bad behavior from my FWH.
And again...like you- the LTA was the cherry on top for me.
I was done.
I kicked him out of the house after d-day and filed for divorce.
This was finally ...what helped my FWH hit bottom.
He was extremely remorseful after d-day, threw the OW under the bus and never looked back and threw himself into working very hard to save the marriage.
We were separated for 6 months but during that time he got sober, went to AA, went to IC and went to MC.
He is a changed man and in many ways our marriage has changed for the better.
It can happen.
I only wish that it had happened years ago so that I could have enjoyed being in a sober, healthy marriage.
You have that chance. You are both young with many good years ahead of you.

Take a look at some of the books that I have suggested on this thread. They have helped me understand my husband and myself and our family dynamics.

Gutfeeling- I know people that have tried moderation but IMHO it does not work.
Maybe someone else will come along and be able to give you their opinion on this.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
silentscream13
Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, January 11th (Saturday)

You have that chance. You are both young with many good years ahead of you.

njgal480

Thank you for your post. It gives me hope. I am just struggling. But, I will say Alanon is really helping me right now. I am starting to think there is a light at the end of this tunnel.

*Keeping Fingers Crossed*


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 182 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: USA
JerseyCowgirl
Member
Member # 41441
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, January 11th (Saturday)

To gut feeling
To a certain extent all A's control their drinking to keep their BAL at a level they are comfortable with. Or they control by drinking only at certain times. But for an A true long term moderation cannot be achieved because their body processes alcohol different from a non-alcoholic. It has been documented that the founder of Moderation Management, Audrey Kishline, gave up after 6 years and joined AA after killing 2 others while driving under the influence. True moderation can only be practiced by non-alcoholics. If you read the book "Under the Influence" this will open your eyes like it did mine.


Me: Divorced 2012
I know that when I truly love & honor myself I am at my best & most complete; and I will never settle for anything less from myself or from anyone else ever again!

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Have not decided where to land yet!
Steppenwolf
Member
Member # 38140
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

One year sober.

Sunday made it one year for me with sobriety. SI has been a big part of my program. Helping me with my thinking problem. There are some incredible people here. Thank you DS and the crew for this place. It so transcends the sum of its parts.


Me: WS- 30s
Her: BS- 30s RockyMtn



Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Congratulations Steppenwolf
Now the real work begins


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better. Reconciled from the A's but still working hard for a better tomorrow.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2422 | Registered: Aug 2012
KittenLittle
New Member
Member # 41599
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)

Congrats Steppenwolf on one year!!

Reading this thread today has been a real eye opener - especially the entry about the "dry drunk".

I'm 9 weeks post d-day and still in limbo. My WH has been sober for nearly three years. His rock bottom was staring death in the face in the form of cirrhosis. Miraculously, he has made an almost full recovery and is now in the best shape of his life. He was in AA when there was still a chance he needed a liver transplant but as soon as he was "better" he stopped going. When he was still sick, I started to see some humility in him but now that he's cheated death, his attitude has changed to one of invincibility.

I stuck with him through all the drinking and bullshit that went along with getting sick and so the PA with his exGF was a slap in the face to end all slaps. Of course, it's all my fault. Some days it feels like he's ready to go start a shiny new life away from me so he doesn't have to deal with any of the hurt he's caused with his drinking and now with this A. I wish I had realized the benefit of AA while he was in it and encouraged him to stick with it.


Me: BS 40's
Him: WS 40's

Posts: 30 | Registered: Dec 2013
silentscream13
Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)

Congrats Steppenwolf! I think you deserve a congrats every day you've been sober! One year is awesome!

[This message edited by silentscream13 at 3:09 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)]


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 182 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: USA
KittenLittle
New Member
Member # 41599
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)

Wow silentscream13 - our stories are eerily similar - our ages almost the same, my d-day is one day before yours, OW is also 47 year old exGF, and together and married the same amount. Small world??


Me: BS 40's
Him: WS 40's

Posts: 30 | Registered: Dec 2013
silentscream13
Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, January 17th (Friday)

KittenLittle:

Very scary how small!


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 182 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: USA
1owner
Member
Member # 41157
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, January 24th (Friday)

Hello,

I have been reading this thread from it's first page, and I wanted to say thank you for it. My WW is an alcoholic. She can't seem to cope with everyday life very well. It is killing me to see her engage in such self destructive behavior. I have learned a lot from reading here and another website on addiction. I don't know how to help her want to quit. She was drinking regularly a few years before her A. She has an addictive personality, makes excuses for her behavior, blames and justifies to no end. We did have a tragedy in our family about a year ago. She was an alcoholic before and it just went further downhill since. We have been married for 17 years and it breaks my heart to see her killing herself. Before addiction, she was a great person to be around, now, me and the kids just avoid her when she is drinking. It makes our family incomplete. I want to help her quit, she says she knows she has a problem. She only drinks once or twice a week now, and she is ok with that, since it is not as much. I'm not ok with "just not as much", I want her to quit altogether and not have an addiction to anything. I want her to be healthy. So do the kids.

I guess that's just where I'm at. Thanks for letting me share.


Posts: 157 | Registered: Oct 2013
JerseyCowgirl
Member
Member # 41441
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, January 24th (Friday)

((1owner))
My heart goes out to you. I believe my exWH was a functioning alcoholic so I know the pain you are in.

A's use anger & anxiety to control us to enable their drinking. Also
addiction and infidelity go hand in hand. It is also very possible she was an alcoholic before you even met...they can hide it very well. The abuse you suffer as the spouse is so painful and they don't see it until long after they get sober if they ever do.

Try AlAnon and post here. I wish this thread was more active because I believe it is a major cause of infidelity, narcissistic behavior and more.

Please continue to post..I will try to keep my eye on this thread if you need a listening ear.


Me: Divorced 2012
I know that when I truly love & honor myself I am at my best & most complete; and I will never settle for anything less from myself or from anyone else ever again!

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Have not decided where to land yet!
njgal480
Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, January 25th (Saturday)

Lowner-

I understand how you feel... you and your children want her sober- 100% sober.

Drinking a few times per week is not sobriety and the fear is always there that she can go down that slippery slope again.

Unfortunately, there's not much you can do.

She needs to want to stop drinking.

Until then she will make excuses and continue to make deals with the devil-saying that just a few drinks a few times per week is not a problem.

In my FWH's case- he finally got sober after I kicked him out after d-day.
That was hitting bottom for him.

It's different for everyone.

You can try to raise the bottom up for your WW by not enabling her or protecting her.
If she gets drunk and things happen-let her have the natural consequences.
For example- don't make excuses to friends or family on her behalf, don't cover for her if she is late for work due to her drinking etc.

In addition to living with my FWH who was a functional alcoholic for our entire marriage...I also grew up with an alcoholic mother. It is not fun for kids.
How would your WW react to an intervention? with you, the kids, and other family members?

I recommended some books (earlier in this thread)that were helpful for me in understanding addictive personalities.

The Addictive Personality by Craig Naaken and Reclaiming Your Family From Addiction by Craig Naaken.

Also an older book that gave me some Aha...moments... 'Marriage On the Rocks' by Woititz.
One of the lines surprised me... about how common infidelity is among alcoholics... I don't know why I didn't realize this was a real possibility for my FWH... I just thought that was not something he would ever do. I realize now that it is a natural progression for someone with an addictive personality.

Is your WW in IC? Did you make sobriety one of your demands for reconciling after finding out about the infidelity?

I agree with Jersey CG- It's a shame that this thread is not more active because alcohol/addictions are problems for so many that find themselves here on SI.

For that reason I do try to check in and offer support as well.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
suckstobeme
Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, January 25th (Saturday)

Can you tell me the theory behind alcohol and affairs as going hand in hand? I just want to be able to articulate and understand the reasoning. I guess I can see how alcohol can be a glue for affair partners. Hell, my exWH started out as my drinking buddy back when I could drink, back when I was in grad school and it was part of the culture. I grew up and stopped when jobs, kids, and homes came into play. Even if he stopped, it became clear after a while that he didn't want to. He would just substitute it with food, then gambling, then I suppose OW. He's still with her and I wonder if she's just another dysfunctional addiction for him??


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2506 | Registered: Jan 2011
time2grow
Member
Member # 35983
Default  Posted: 12:36 AM, January 26th (Sunday)

I wonder if she's just another dysfunctional addiction for him?

Most likely.

Can you tell me the theory behind alcohol and affairs

Sadly, it does happen but not for many of them. If they do not deal with the primary addiction for themselves and with brutal honesty, the addiction moves on to something else. Example: Alcohol to prescription drugs, to gambling, to food, to exercise, to sex . . . Without being brutally honest with self the addiction changes.


Posts: 1646 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Missouri
RidingHealingRd
Member
Member # 33867
Default  Posted: 1:08 AM, January 26th (Sunday)

1owner

My WH was a functioning alcoholic for much of our 25 yr M. He drank at home every night but his tolerance was so high that he did not come across as visibly intoxicated. He did however pass out each night as he sat drinking wine. I accused him many times of being an alcoholic but he denied it, never listened, and continued drinking. It was the cause of a number of arguments. I was disgusted with the example that he was setting for our children, and let him know that. I do not drink and I did NOT want to be M to an alcoholic. My *bitching* never made a difference. He continued to drink because he wanted to.

While in MC I was told that I should have left him. Arguing, begging, pleading (I don't beg or plead) will not cause the alcoholic to change, they need to WANT to change. My leaving may have caused my WH to hit rock bottom. It could have been the catalyst for change.

10/29/10 Dday, my WH hit rock bottom. He had his last drink on that day. Sober 3+ years.

If I could go back in time I would have done as the MC stated and filed for D. My WH 100% believes that would have been a huge wake up call and he would have stopped drinking.

You can't help your WW quit, she must want to quit. You can support her through the addiction recovery process ~ if she decides to begin that journey.

BTW: One of the 1st question my WH asked MOW, "Do you drink?" During their A MOW was arrested for a DUI. Yes, she drinks!

[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 1:13 AM, January 26th (Sunday)]


ME: 53 BS
HIM: 60 WH
Married: 28 years
D'Day: 10/29/10
in R 3.5 years and it's working but he is putting 200% into it (as he should) to make it right again.

The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.


Posts: 1974 | Registered: Nov 2011
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, January 26th (Sunday)

1owner: Someone suggested alanon,, and this is how it worked in my first marriage -- he was an alcoholic and no one could get him to stop drinking. I went to alanon. Within 6 months he quit drinking, went into a treatment facility and began a new life/lifestyle. I was told in Alanon that WHEN he got into a program of recovery he would out grow me if I were not also involved in a support group, because they change SO much and SO fast when they take ahold of a new meaning to their lives. This was true. The man who spent 100 a week on beer suddenly began following me around the house turning off lights behind me to save money. He had a whole new set of "friends" I didn't know and he needed to be with them to stay sober. I only had to tell him something once and he remembered it, and got angry when I would repeat myself over and over - what I had had to do for 7 years! Anyway, there were good things, too, but you get the picture.

My first alanon meeting a lady said that usually an alcolic will become sober about 6 months after the person closest to the alcoholic gets into alanon - but they can't guarantee it.I laughed and said you are crazy. This guy drinks and passes out in the car in the driveway with the engine running. He's had 3 DUIs. He can't remember hollering at me for 2 solid hours while he is drunk. There is NO hope for this guy. She gently said, "As long as the drinker is alive, there is hope, and our program will help you find the hope again, and possibly a success story."

The program has so many sucess stories vs the 0 successs I had had on my own dealing with the alcoholic, I decided to stay for 6 months- 1 meeting a week and absorb what I was hearing about from the ones in the meeting whose spouses DID become sober. I started to see the shift in my responses to the drinking and that is what led him to get help-- plus with all the "experts" in the meetings, I knew right where to send him when he was really ready for help. Do you know where to take your wife the next time she says she needs help?

The meetings are free, and you don't have to talk.
THere are probably meetings for men only-- there were several husbands/fathers in the groups.

Anyway, I know Alanon isn't for everyone, but it helped me. Like they say at the meetings, "What do you really have to lose by attending 1 meeting a week?"


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 1713 | Registered: Jan 2012
JerseyCowgirl
Member
Member # 41441
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, January 26th (Sunday)

To SucksToBeMe
Drinking regularly for a long time damages the NeoCortex part of the brain. That is where you make your decisions. Also A's can occur during blackouts and also because alcoholics have a mentality that they are perfect and can do anything

To RidingHealingRd & Home wrecked
So happy your H's quit. Mine never admitted a problem & I'm sure this was the root of all our problems


Me: Divorced 2012
I know that when I truly love & honor myself I am at my best & most complete; and I will never settle for anything less from myself or from anyone else ever again!

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Have not decided where to land yet!
silentscream13
Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, January 26th (Sunday)

Can you tell me the theory behind alcohol and affairs as going hand in hand?

It is not uncommon for an alcoholic to have an affair. As someone else stated it is more to do with their self-centered attitude of an alcoholic, possible blackouts and the "i can get away with anything" attitude.

However, the A cannot and should not be blamed on alcohol. My parents have been sober for over 50 years combined. I grew up in the programs (didn't stop me from marrying an alcoholic though!), but I was unsure if being an alcoholic caused him to have an A.

Both my parents said that being an alcoholic is not an excuse for having an A. It can be a contributing factor, but it is not the reason why he had an A. That is like blaming the alcohol for beating your children. Not all alcoholics are violent and not all of them commit infidelity.

Neither of my parents had an A. Actually, both in previous marriages has WS who were not alcoholics. I honestly find it more common for the spouse of an alcoholic to be unfaithful, because they are miserable then the alcoholic.

Okay. Sorry. Soapbox moment over!

[This message edited by silentscream13 at 8:50 AM, January 26th (Sunday)]


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 182 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: USA
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, January 26th (Sunday)

My X, who is still drinking, blamed me for all the woes in his life. This was his excuse for the drinking and also became his excuse for cheating. That's the link that I see.

Al-Anon works wonders in my life. My leaving my marriage did not result in a rock-bottom moment for my X. I still attend Al-Anon because it helps me to deal with my life in a better way.


Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2010
1owner
Member
Member # 41157
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, January 27th (Monday)

Thanks everyone!

I can see now that my WW's biggest issue is addiction personality. I can also see that it runs in her family. Her addiction happens to be alcohol, and we have suffered the damaging effects of it.

I couldn't give anyone the scientific reasons for alcoholism and infidelity being a matched pair, but I can tell you in my situation I have witnessed it. She used to have such disdain for cheating and infidelity. I want her to recover more than anything. I have gotten her to go to counseling a few times. She has not been motivated to continue going.

I have also been blamed for all of my WW's problems. That must be common to all addictions.

Thanks all!


Posts: 157 | Registered: Oct 2013
silentscream13
Member
Member # 41693
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, January 29th (Wednesday)

I couldn't give anyone the scientific reasons for alcoholism and infidelity being a matched pair, but I can tell you in my situation I have witnessed it. She used to have such disdain for cheating and infidelity.

1owner: My WH was acted the same way up until the day he cheated. Still acted like that two days before he got caught cheating. I honestly think alcoholism did help change his thinking, but I also believe that there are more deep-rooted issues that led to the infidelity. Alcohol contributes, but it is not the cause.

Al-Anon works wonders in my life. My leaving my marriage did not result in a rock-bottom moment for my X. I still attend Al-Anon because it helps me to deal with my life in a better way.

Compartmented:

Absolutely agree. My WH is newly sober. Believe it or not, it is actually harder than when he drank. Al-Anon has been a life saver for me. (I had grown-up attending Alateen). Without even intending to, Al-Anon is also helping me deal with my WH's infidelity.


ME: BS- 39; HIM: WS - 40 (lostmymind13)
OW: TechnicallyMarriedEx-GF - 47
Sexting,OEA/NO PA (but was planning it before he got caught)
D-day - 11-14-13
Together: Almost 18 years; Married: Almost 15 years
4 Children
Apologies: I edit. Often.

Posts: 182 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: USA
stuckinthetunnel
New Member
Member # 41754
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

Hello all, I was in an 18 yr marriage with an A that was very high functioning. Never missed a day of work, was and is a serious workaholic..60-80 hours a week, and was not abusive or the staggering drunk that people picture. Instead he just became "unavailable". He would sit in the garage and drink easily a case of beer a day on the weekends if he was not working..a 6 pack during the week. Did not participate in our marriage or the kids or anything else for that matter.

after 15 yrs of crying begging nagging him to stop drinking, I moved out of our home with our son. He had left before 3 times to go on his drinking binges and not get nagged, I had always let him come back. Once we had our son he didn't leave again but just sat in the garage and drank. When I left he started taking prescription pills (I did not find out about this until after the D was final)

After about 2 months he decided he couldn't live with out us and we actively started working on what we were going to do to put our family back together. Of course my deal breaker was he had to stop drinking. He entered an out patient 18 month program and started AA full boar. 4 nights a week and the program. He became a different man, very involved and spent every night at our house with us after work. started being available for school functions like never before. but I didn't trust him and was not over eager to just jump back into it with out a lot of work. He kept saying he was working on himself and wanted me to be patient.

4 months before his graduation from the 18 month program I caught him in our bed (remember I had moved out..he had stayed in the family home) with another woman. He said he wanted a divorce and nothing I said or did would change his mind. He showed no remorse..as soon as I caught them he immediantly started making it very public..we lost the house and he moved within 4 blocks of us and made no attempt at hiding his relationship with her even though our teenage son had no idea. He stopped attending AA. She drinks and he keeps beer for her in his house. Even after our son found out about the situation and would tell his dad that it bothered him that she drank in front of him, he continued to have the beer in his house. After I caught him with her his story totally changed.. I bailed on him when he needed me, I was always trying to change him and she liked him for who he is, I was never ever there for him...I was the cause of his drinking he could not be with me and be sober. He went from Im sorry for what I put my family through and Im so thankful you are giving me the chance, I don't want to loose my family you guys are the most important thing to me...he even got the AA saying about sobriety family god etc..tattooed on his arm,to his new story.

Fast forward..its 2 1/2 years. He has 4 years sober just this past Feb. We are divorced and he is still with her. Because of his behavior the year after I caught them we moved out of state. He cut off all contact with my 2 older sons who he raised from very young ages and was constantly putting this woman before his son, although of course he denies that. He would lie on his weekend and say he had to work to spend it with her. He forced her on our son which in turn made him resent her even more..son started acting out getting in trouble with drugs and the law. He would go months and months with out even seeing our son and when there was trouble I would call him and he would refuse to get involved and co parent with me.

We have very little contact..he claims he is the victim. He goes back and forth between telling me he does and always will love me and "our" boys to hating me. He has no friends, just this woman and her grown kids who he seems very involved with. He doesn't understand why our son will not work on a relationship with him.

I am shocked that this is how it all ended...I really never saw this scenario at all...many other ones but not this one.

I keep hoping one day he is going to wake up and at the very least try to repair the relationship with his only son. But I see no proof that it will ever happen.


DDay 10/30/11
Divorced 3/25/13
Married 17 yrs.
S30,S23 mine
S17 ours

Posts: 50 | Registered: Dec 2013
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, March 13th (Thursday)

Stuck, I hear you. I have a frog in my throat because your story moved me to tears. I don't have much advice to offer except he sounds like a dry drunk. He has maintained behaviors from his active drinking days (such as selfishness, denial, dishonesty) even if he isn't actually drinking. His period of embracing real sobriety probably gave you hope that he was on a journey to change his life.

As it was said up thread, there is something about booze and cheating that go hand in hand for many reasons. I have also heard with some frequency that recently sober folks often stray - they are replacing one addiction with another.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 664 | Registered: Oct 2012
stuckinthetunnel
New Member
Member # 41754
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, March 18th (Tuesday)

Thanks Rockymtn..I did think he was actually going to make the big change, I think that has been the hardest thing to get over. Seeing that he actually was capable of being all the man I thought he could be, the involved dad, the attentive husband...It really was like a dream come true. Sometimes I regret not excepting it, I was bitter and didn't really respond the way I should have or the way he wanted. 15 years living with an alcoholic does something to your trust and I didn't trust him.

Maybe if I had responded differently he wouldn't have gone looking somewhere else. I will always wonder and regret that.

His favorite saying through all of this is "It is what it is" I could punch someone in the throat every time I hear that now.


DDay 10/30/11
Divorced 3/25/13
Married 17 yrs.
S30,S23 mine
S17 ours

Posts: 50 | Registered: Dec 2013
kiki1
Member
Member # 37184
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, April 12th (Saturday)


He told me last night that all the drinking he did during our marriage was my fault.

because I "allowed it". I put up with him and didnt leave him many,, many years ago.

When we met he was already an alcoholic, but somehow, that equates to be my fault.

This spells the end of the line for me. There will be no haeling, no recovery. 3 years of false r, thinking he may own his shit and deal with it.

Instead, he still blames me. I suppose he is right. By sticking by him (wanted to give my kids the chance and stability i never had) and not leaving, always having false hope we would make it, i was enabling him.

Still enabling him by giving him a second chance after his betrayal. He isnt going to stop drinking, there is no rock bottom for him, just moving on to the next one.

He reminds me of a mosquito, draining life blood out of me.

I feel foolish, repeating this pattern after dday, thinking we could fix it. Instead I find I'm still the one working the hardest to fix something that never was.

Not so sad though, this has been coming such a long time. I've known a long time there would not be a successful R.

Just empty inside. Resigned. My mind is boggled that after 27 years, he still blames me for all the problems in our marriage. This is so dysfuctional. I know for sure I have to end it and stop his free ride.

I know he'll quickly move on, he's already BTDT. I'll struggle, mourn my loss, my youth and my failed marriage.

The good part I guess, my kids are now grown. I wont have to worry about single parenthood. I know thatt makes it so much harder.

No real question here, just processing my thoughts. Thank you for any who read this.


Posts: 403 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: new york
Topic Posts: 336