SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Wayward Side
User Topic: Dry Adultery part deaux
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 6:52 PM, October 27th (Thursday)

I had posted something about this a while ago. I've seen some post here wanting to save their marriage, relationship, but not often themselves. "What can I do?, what should I say, how do I help, fix, prove?!?, I get it now, I see it. I know now what I want". 

All good questions, all great reassuring statements. Then often, poof. They're gone. Their marriage over or things aren't better fast enough. They may not have another affair. They're a dry adulterer. Just like a dry drunk may never have another drink yet not ever be sober.

There's so much more to healing from the choice to have an affair than never cheating again. You need to develop and grow spiritually, emotionally, and mentally. Without the digging and the work, that initial guilt and shame that seemed so fresh and brutal fades. 

The marriage you were terrified you lost seems to be at least temporarily saved and now those changes you committed to become stifling and confining. "I'm not a child, I have been good, I haven't lied lately, about anything like that". Your BS that you viewed as the love of your life, how could you have not seen it, is now jailer, parent, nag. "Will they ever trust me, get over this? It's been (fill in the length of time) I've  done everything I could".

Nope. You haven't even started. You're still impulsive, discontented, restless, selfish, and now you have a healthy does of judgmental and critical tossed in because you get it. You don't do that stuff anymore like those idiots. You have morals. You are now a finger pointer at those losers who can't get it together. In one word, insufferable. 

You've never dealt what the affair caused you to lose and what it meant. Your escape, your validation, your holes, your boredom, your ego, your attention habit, unresolved FOO issues. All those toxic dysfunctions still alive and well but not having a secret,a person, people, ready and waiting when you slip away to fill, assuage, stroke, feed you. Now you have depression, numbness, just a hint of tapped down rage that echoes with a sharp remark or silence. Withdrawing, detaching, distancing. 

You are in a full blown affair again, without the other person. No fixes, no health, no growth. Not fucking someone else mentally or physically is not being faithful. 

There are no short cuts. Do the work. Get healthy mentally, emotionally, physically. The initial pain is what so many mistake for a wake up. It isn't always. It takes consistent focus and progress.

Make goals. As you achieve, high five yourself, pick the next one. Make them realistic. If you've never told the truth in conflict don't pick I will never lie again. It's not realistic. Pick I will think about something before I say it. When you fail, fess up immediately. 

No contact. No mental contact. That doesn't mean no thoughts will come but don't obsess and daydream. 

Transparency isn't a punishment for cheating. It's the only way to love an authentic life. 

Honesty is not an option.

Don't just profess your love, live it. Songs are changed, tv shows are paused and addressed. Hugs aren't ended by you. Conversations aren't started by them. You don't ask if you can go out with the boys/girls. You know. You say no thank you and don't run home to tell your spouse how "good" you were. You're an adult, not a child. 

Live your remorse. Carry your own water. Self sooth. 

Embody your potential rather than just referencing that you have it. 


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
wincings_sparkle
Member
Member # 27129
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, October 27th (Thursday)

Where is Hufi's Clapping Guy?

Yep. Walk the Walk don't just Talk the Talk.

Dry Adultery is a good way to look at it.


"When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free."
- Catherine Ponder
Me-FWW. BH-wincing_at_light

Posts: 1594 | Registered: Jan 2010
Want To Wake Up
Member
Member # 31583
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, October 27th (Thursday)

Will this do Wincing?


Me 50+
WH 50+ (SlowUptake)
DDay '09
Latest TT... Nov '13 (not a typo!)


One man’s “fruitless conflict” is another man’s “meaningful discussion”


Posts: 474 | Registered: Mar 2011
wincings_sparkle
Member
Member # 27129
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, October 27th (Thursday)

It's cute and little!
It's clapping!
It's perfect!
Thank you.

"I'm not a child, I have been good,
If someone actually said that during work, we would point out that only a child would say something like that.

The initial pain is what so many mistake for a wake up. It isn't always. It takes consistent focus and progress.
A good indicator of progress is the ability to talk about something and have it not hurt to talk about.

I can talk about things now that I could not have talked about without hurt/anger/fear in the past. It's amazingly stunning to my BH and to me. I always thought that I was just "emotional" or "emotive" or "passionate". Ha, I was immature and had immature coping skills and poor communication skills. Now if I'm "emoting", "passionate" or "emotional" it is a conscious decision on my part.


"When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free."
- Catherine Ponder
Me-FWW. BH-wincing_at_light

Posts: 1594 | Registered: Jan 2010
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, October 27th (Thursday)

Can I hire you as a life coach ? My W could use one. FYI, I did print this off and gave it to her.

I've been going through a anger cycle lately. Rough week.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2554 | Registered: May 2010
archernine
Member
Member # 31898
Default  Posted: 6:55 AM, October 28th (Friday)

UO,

I lurk in the WS area because as a BS I'm interested in seeing and reading what everyone is going through. When I saw this, I just starting nodding my head in agreement. Thank you for writing such a brilliant and insightful post. It is something I will print and have my WS read because I know this is something I feel about him but haven't been able to find the words for.

UO, you rock. BTW, love the Marilyn Monroe quote on your signature line.

[This message edited by archernine at 6:57 AM, October 28th (Friday)]


An affair isn't like taking pottery ... they always end disastrously...and it's the one thing in my life I would undo if I could-- from the movie, Unfaithful.

Posts: 84 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Maryland
Pentup
Member
Member # 20563
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, October 28th (Friday)

UO-
Wow
Too true on so many counts.
Have to say that (and I hope I'm not the only one)I came here as the BS. I read in WS to get a handle on things that my WH might feel/think/not express. Very often I read a post that forget the effect, I'm suffering from the same cause (selfish, immature, etc)

Going through this, it's not only the WS that sometimes needs to grow emotionally. I definately needed to as well. This site has helped me mature as a partner. Still have a ways to go.

Reading this makes me realize that I have been in the past this person at times.

I'm not expressing this well. Thank you for making me look deeper at myself and recognize my own weaknesses.


Me- BS
Him- FWS (I hope- F)

Posts: 6516 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Not Oz
Dance4Me
Member
Member # 26284
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, October 28th (Friday)

This was one of your better postings UO-- I actually understood and agreed with all of it! Lol!

I haven't showed my FWH a post on here for some time...this one- I will!

The "I've been good" quote just cracks me up! My dad use to say that to my mom-- I hated it. Now my 18 year old son says that and all I say is...."do you wanna cookie??". I just love Chris Rock!


On Dday -BS-me 41 FWS-him 42
Married 19 years 3 kids (16,13,9)
D-Day 10/2/09- TT til Feb. 2010

“To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken.” -CS Lewis


Posts: 1039 | Registered: Nov 2009
helpemegetoverit
Member
Member # 30242
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, October 28th (Friday)

This was one of your better postings UO-- I actually understood and agreed with all of it! Lol!

Ha ha, I agree.

I think a LOT of people go into 'dry adultery' for years .... only to do it again. Like you said, they MAY never have another 'drink' again...may be 'strong' enough to REALLY want to but never do it...but I do think many 'fall off the wagon' eventually.

It's my biggest fear. Wanting to make sure that I REALLY figure out and 'fix' my issues so that I am never tempted to do it again.


Me: WW
Him: BH

"You don't get to choose if you get hurt in this world...but you do have some say in who hurts you."
John Green


Posts: 882 | Registered: Nov 2010
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, October 28th (Friday)

Thanks, uo, for putting it in a comprehensive form what I have known about my FWH.

I found out about his affair 6 years after he ended it. However, in those 6 years he was what I called a "dry cheat". He didn't treat me well, he didn't fix him he didn't own his shit.

You would have thought he would have treated me like the goddess that I am ( )

No, he actually still had all his WS thinking going on and if someone offered sex that he thought wouldn't turn psycho evil bitch and want to tell me all about their lllluuuurrrrvvvvvv I am sure he would have gone for it.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9511 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
UnexpectedSong
Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, October 28th (Friday)

Not fucking someone else mentally or physically is not being faithful.

This!

No contact. No mental contact. That doesn't mean no thoughts will come but don't obsess and daydream.

And this!


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6081 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
whydidyou
Member
Member # 29388
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, October 28th (Friday)

UO....

great post, thought provoking for both WS and BS as always.!

Thank you!


BS (me)
WS (him)HowIHeal
DD 1/2010

ETA. IPAD auto correct stinks, sorry for typos and numerous edits!


Posts: 759 | Registered: Aug 2010
lost_in_toronto
Member
Member # 25395
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, October 28th (Friday)

I always love you posts, uncertainone, even if I don't agree.

One thing I thought about as reading this is how easily it is for the BS to fall into this same trap - having a "dry" relationship with the OP and the affair itself.

Two years post dday, and I still fall into obsessive thinking about the OW at times. It's unhealthy, and contributes nothing to my relationship with myself or with my WS. I have never contacted the OW in the real world...but in my imaginary world I communicate with her often. And I also can sit quietly in a corner and pick the edges of what I call my affair scab...even though I know picking at a scab makes everything take longer to heal and the scar uglier in the long run.

No contact. No mental contact. That doesn't mean no thoughts will come but don't obsess and daydream.

It gets better as time goes along, but I have definitely had periods in which I was having my own little affair with the pain of his affair. And that isn't a healthy way to process pain.

As always - thanks for making us think, uncertainone!


Me: BS/39
Him: WS/37
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 14 years.
Reconciled.

Posts: 1653 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: not toronto anymore
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, October 28th (Friday)

This was one of your better postings UO-- I actually understood and agreed with all of it! Lol!

Occaisionally that happens, but don't be scared. It usually goes away after rest and plenty of water.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, October 29th (Saturday)

This IS a really good thread!
SLHim was most definitely in this category for awhile.
It takes alot of work and self awareness, but it's all worth it(I wasn't always a saint )


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2403 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
alexa071
Member
Member # 28881
Default  Posted: 6:22 AM, October 31st (Monday)

Embody your potential rather than just referencing that you have it. 

LOVE this line!


Me: BH (32)
Her: XWW/SA/Borderline PD (Betrayer47) (32)
OC: (4)

Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: MN
MyJourney2Me
Member
Member # 30075
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, October 31st (Monday)

UO: Your post described me to a T, from Dday till 5months ago. I was always saying I have been good, so why the constant suspicion??!!.



Thank you for getting into my head, now I can say I am doing this for me, not for the relationship.


Me: WS 23yrs

Complicated mad hatter situation

Status: With all the Ddays, lets just say the clock was set back to Jan 2012.


Posts: 142 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Cradle of mankind
toby
Member
Member # 10337
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, November 12th (Saturday)

Amazing post!!!! I'm bumping it to the top!!!!

Posts: 1537 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Texas
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, November 13th (Sunday)

Thank you uncertainone.

Even though your post is for the WSs, it struck me as many things that a BS must do as well. How am I supposed to build a relationship with my WF if I can't be a strong person all on my own? How am I going to appreciate him as a person if I am still drinking and drowning in all that anger and the isolating tendencies that go along with it?

Thank you for making me think and through your thread giving me something solid to work on.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus. Be mindful, compassionate, and responsible… Something valuable I learned on SI. :)

Posts: 3900 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
minime
Member
Member # 32840
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, November 14th (Monday)

Great post, I wish my wife really understood what it means.

She mentioned this thread to me but could not explain what it was about to save her life...which is a great indicator of understanding of a concept or more precisely lack of understanding.

Funny thing is that i used the expression of "dry drunk" with her many month ago to explain that why she needed to do all the work.

This is one of the best most insightful threads on here for some time. I hope she my WW "gets" it at some point

[This message edited by minime at 9:49 AM, November 15th (Tuesday)]


Me: BH: 31
Her: WS: 30
Married: 5 years, 13 years together
DDay #1: 3/1/11 - Denied affair, agrees to NC (false)
DDay #2: 6/29/11 - EA/PA for 2 years
Kid: 10 months...WTF?!?

Favorite Quote: Each betrayal begins with trust


Posts: 191 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Michigan
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, March 4th (Sunday)

Bump for a friend.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, March 4th (Sunday)

I don't dance in this forum often, but all I can say is, "Yup."

Great post, UO


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 19968 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
DevastatedTwice
Member
Member # 29061
Default  Posted: 11:55 PM, March 4th (Sunday)

So much good stuff in this thread. I've shared my story here before but this warranted it again.

My WH had an affair 5 years ago. He ended it by leaving his job and was the model remorseful husband for a year and a half. He's not into forums, but if he was on here back then, he would've been the husband everyone wanted their husband to be like. He did everything we talk about that needs to be done on here because he wanted to take care of my heart: transparency, NC, the whole thing. He answered EVERY question I had in such a loving way. He was so broken over how his actions affected me. I've never felt so special and so cherished in my life. I would get cards and love notes about how sorry he was and how blessed he was that I was still his wife.

But as UO said, lying underneath were the FOO issues, the need for validation, the self esteem issues, etc. And when the opportunity presented itself again, he fell into his second affair.

It terrifies me if I ever hear a WS on here say that they know they will never cheat again because they couldn't stand to hurt their BS and see the pain again. That was my WH. He was SO convinced that he would NEVER cheat again. And he did.

Just an encouragement to all you WS's out there. Figure out the whys. Being remorseful is not enough. I see so many of you working through your issues. That's commendable. I don't want anyones marriage to end up like mine.

[This message edited by DevastatedTwice at 12:00 AM, March 5th (Monday)]


Me - BS - 39
Him - WH, SA - 39
Married 17 yrs.
3 kids- 16, 13, 8
Dday#1 - 3/16/07 PA
D-day#2- 9/21/09 PA, began recovery 6/8/10
D-day#3- 11-8-10 False recovery.
D-Day#4- 12/27/11 Third PA, divorcing
Divorced- 6/6/12

Posts: 405 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: California
rollercoaster80
Member
Member # 23412
Default  Posted: 1:00 AM, March 5th (Monday)

GREAT POST!!!!!!!

I have referred to this kind of R as being like a "dry drunk". My fws cheated on his first wife. Talked to me about this and said he would not do that again...instead he got into drugs during our M...gave up the drugs and went back to cheating..we/he has been through counseling.....swears he will never cheat again....I see a changed person....but every now and then I see the old glimmer of my ws and his old behaviors peek through...he has not really looked at the why and is reluctant at this point to talk although we had a lot of talking in the past 4 years...in and out of therapy...I do believe he would like to be honest and live an authentic life...I am not sure he can do it. He may not cheat but I see compulsive behavior. I see behaviors that are unnecessary and not authentic....I see lying at times and justifying behaviors and I am beginning to see annoyance when he is confronted with things past and present. I see some rug sweeping as well.

Things he does that make me think he is in dry Adultry:

lying...not about anything A related just in general

Acting out with me: in a room full of relatives and some people including children he put his hand down my pants.
Also grabbed my blouse in front of his cousins and looked down it making a lewd comment.

He usually does not act this way but in highly charged situations begins to act out.

Made sexual comments in front of me to several woman at our temple...not directed towards them but towards me or in general as in a joke.example "Oh can I use that oil (salad oil given to me by a female friend)on my wife. Her comment "I suggest bread" Ugh...He is NOT cheating but is going down the slippery path again in my book...... I guess we need to go back to M/C....I don't know if that will help...I do think he is a dry adulterer.

Anu suggestions. I think I will make any appointment with M/C or I/C for me...the more I think about it the more behaviors I see that are out of line.I do not think he is cheating but his behaviors are not right and I do think he will slip up before long. (He is 67 and has cheated or used woman/sex for validation since he was young...saying he flirted even as a child with woman for attention)


me 55 fbw
him 67 FWH/SA
married 32 years
together 31 years my whole adult life!
4 s, 1 stepd, 2 grand kids

multiple A's, 2 LTA's,multiple indescretions...before and throughout our marriage


Posts: 1047 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: sarasota, fl
noescape
Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 3:37 AM, March 5th (Monday)

WOW! Impressive.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
disgust
Member
Member # 34200
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, March 5th (Monday)

UO - This is absolutely awesome.

Posts: 349 | Registered: Dec 2011
Gipper
Member
Member # 32232
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, March 5th (Monday)

What disgust said.

Posts: 717 | Registered: May 2011
brokeninfl
Member
Member # 21896
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, March 5th (Monday)

I remember you "dry adultry" post - which I loved...and this one is great too.

I have to agree with a few of the BS on the threat too -- it's a good reminder for anyone in relationship - not just WS.


"On the other side of fear lies freedom"

Me - 36 BS
Him - doesn't matter
2 DS
DD 11/08
Divorced.


Posts: 1074 | Registered: Dec 2008
GeauxTigers
Member
Member # 28301
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, March 6th (Tuesday)

Wow, U1. I think this is a pretty good description of some of what my WW went through in the nearly 2 years between DDay 1 and her recent affairs. Thank you.

Great post.


Sigh... how did I end up here?

Posts: 1379 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Nashville
Birima
Member
Member # 33519
Default  Posted: 12:47 AM, March 7th (Wednesday)

DevastatedTwice


But as UO said, lying underneath were the FOO issues, the need for validation, the self esteem issues, etc. And when the opportunity presented itself again, he fell into his second affair.

It terrifies me if I ever hear a WS on here say that they know they will never cheat again because they couldn't stand to hurt their BS and see the pain again. That was my WH. He was SO convinced that he would NEVER cheat again. And he did.

This is a very powerfull reminder to me. Thank you DevastatedTwice and UO as well.


[This message edited by Birima at 12:48 AM, March 7th (Wednesday)]


Me WH
She BW
Married for 7 YRS
D-Day 09/16/11
OC born December 4th 2011
No R yet

Posts: 104 | Registered: Oct 2011
Fathful123
Member
Member # 34867
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, March 7th (Wednesday)

Thank you. I shared with FWH


DDay-7/11/2011
Me(51)
WS(54)with ED!!!!
OW- 49, big manly looking, Amazon looking Ho ; works with federal government but in different state
Several EAs and one oovoo recorded masturbation chat!
We have been Married 18 years
3 kids youngest 17

Posts: 78 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Northern Virginia
Losing Hope
New Member
Member # 34520
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, March 8th (Thursday)

Certainly an eye-opener. After a recent setback due mostly to my insistence on TT rather than just "owning my shit" I've started to wonder if we're going to make it through R. We're both exhausted and while I've been "a good boy" since D-Day (nearing a year) I've found the resilience that seemed to be so easy to come in the immediate aftermath is fading. We're in MC and both in IC. My shrink said last week that the reason it's getting more difficult is because now we've gotten through the affair and are now focusing on the other issues in our M, which will require real change on both sides if we're going to make it work. But thanks for the post. I immediately told BS I loved her.


WS (37) Borderline NPSD
Love is not an easy thing, the only baggage you can bring is all that you can't leave behind. -- Bono

Posts: 2 | Registered: Jan 2012
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, March 8th (Thursday)

My shrink said last week that the reason it's getting more difficult is because now we've gotten through the affair and are now focusing on the other issues in our M, which will require real change on both sides if we're going to make it work

I think your shrink is wrong. First of all, I doubt very much you've gotten through the affair yet and second of all, while slogging through all this shit is very difficult, if you haven't made the necessary changes in yourself you'll find the old feelings returning. Without the "escape" they may be even harder to experience. I won't say cope with as you truly aren't coping without healthy changes.

As you grow, challenges will be felt in a different way. Rather than resentment and stuffed anger it will be rise to meet and tackle, together if they are challenges for you both. Individually if they are yours to fix.

I encourage you to take an internal inventory to see what you have in the way of skill sets and thought patterns. Don't let external factors color internal issues.

You can do this! You reading this and being open to it is awesome!!!


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
noescape
Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 4:09 AM, March 30th (Friday)

Bump

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
hurting7897
Member
Member # 34761
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, March 30th (Friday)

WOW this is one of the BEST topics I've ever read. You hit the nail on the head. I think that's where my FWH is right now. We are 8 weeks out from d-day. He is maintaing NC, going to IC and MC and very remorseful. And he is totally understanding why I find myself spending 3 hours on the computer trying to dig up more shit since he never came forward in the first place. He had a ONS 16 years ago and never told me--then brought the OW back into our open marriage without telling me their history. I think that 16 years may have been "dry adultery". Having never faced up to what made him cheat in the first place led up to the events a year ago. He sees that now and regrets it immensely.

Thank you for a well-written, well-expressed topic.


Married 20 years
Me-BS-51
Him-FWH-46 "healing4us2"
2 kids, DD 12 and DS 16
D-day #1 Jan. 30,2012
D-day #2 April 12, 2012
D-day #3 April 15, 2012
June 24, 2012--Decided to R.
January 21, 2014-Forgave him! Life is sweet!

Posts: 226 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: united states
notthesum
Member
Member # 16172
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, March 30th (Friday)

After a recent setback due mostly to my insistence on TT rather than just "owning my shit" I've started to wonder if we're going to make it through R

With you insisting on being less than truthful to your spouse, likely you won't make it through R.
Honestly, how can you even consider yourself to be in R if you are still holding back? R means you are putting everything you've got into saving your marriage. It doesn't sound like that is what you are doing.


Time heals nothing. It's what you do with that time that heals..or doesn't.

I'm not almost 40. I'm $19.99 plus shipping and handling. And insurance.

Sometimes, the person you would take a bullet for is the one holding the gun.


Posts: 1888 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: Rocky Mountains
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, July 7th (Saturday)

Bumped by a request. Hope it and the great input posts helps.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Lost333
Member
Member # 35182
Default  Posted: 10:04 PM, July 7th (Saturday)

Thank you for bumping this. I have never seen it but think it is really amazing and true.

Alot of the time I am looking for validation and approval from BH, and others-always trying to be the perfect employee, friend, student, etc. Which is really ironic because now I have caused all of this hurt and destruction and am coming to terms with the fact that I am not perfect and I am capable of this damage.

In the beginning I started out trying to "fix" my M and heal my BH. I know that is not the answer. As you said, once things are "settled" there will be the rumblings of unresolved issues. Especially since chaos is familiar to me and I often create it when there is none.

I know I need to soothe myself, grow up, feel confident, speak my truth, stand up for myself, feel an inner calm that nobody can take away from me-and most of all stop looking for praise and approval.

Everytime I think I have peeled away a layer there is another one underneath. This is going to be a long, exhausting journey-but I want to take it.


Me:29,WS/BS Him:27, BS/WS (DontTreadOnMe) His Dday 2/19/12. My Dday 9/29/12
Married: 2 yrs, together 4 1/2

"And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom" Anais Nin


Posts: 689 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Midwest
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, July 7th (Saturday)

I remember reading this post a while back. It is worth keeping around and has come at a good time for me.

WS bailed on me and the kids today. He just loaded up his car and left. Again. Because of the faulty thought processes that you mentioned. Since he is not actively cheating right now, he feels that life should be 'puppy dogs and rainbows" now. Even though he has done ZERO work on himself (that I know of, anyway).

Very clearly written and insightful, UO.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7879 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:38 PM, July 7th (Saturday)

I'm so sorry gonna.
((()))


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4712 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Betrayeddaddio
Member
Member # 30198
Default  Posted: 11:58 PM, July 7th (Saturday)

I see alot of my WW in what you wrote UO, going to send this to her.....

It terrifies me if I ever hear a WS on here say that they know they will never cheat again because they couldn't stand to hurt their BS and see the pain again.

I got this exact quote from my WW, but it says nothing about whether there is still a desire to cheat, just that they are more fearful of the consequences.


BH-42 WW-40 DD-5 DD-9 DD-11
D-Day 09/27/2010 Wayward wife had a 10 month A with married DB co-worker Separated Oct. 2013

Posts: 704 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Canada
NothngElseMattrs
Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 3:25 AM, July 8th (Sunday)

It terrifies me if I ever hear a WS on here say that they know they will never cheat again because they couldn't stand to hurt their BS and see the pain again.

I was just trying to explain to H tonight why him saying something along those lines doesn't quite cut it, especially with him saying it so recent after D-Day. This thread explains why much better than I was able to off the cuff. How coincidental that it bumped up today.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, September 11th (Tuesday)

bump


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
SurprisinglyOkay
Member
Member # 36684
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, September 11th (Tuesday)

I like this, Thanks for bumping it up! It reminds me, of my recovery program(duh). My A has caused me to really be able to see how I've used people worse than I ever used a substance. It's a huge part of my disease, and going forth I'm treating it with as much care and concern as I do my substance abuse issues, if not more...it's a much deeper issue. Thanks again for the bump!


FWS me 36 (recovering addict)
BS him 39 AFrayedKnot
Together 7 years
2 children


"Your secrets keep you sick"


Posts: 1130 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: 221B
Betrayed60453
Member
Member # 34922
Default  Posted: 6:28 PM, September 11th (Tuesday)

Applause, uncertain one. Bravo!

Wish my WW would read this.


Me: BH 40, Her: WW 30, 8 year old son
DDay #1: 2/10/05
DDay #2: 9/15/11

"You could stand me up at the gates of Hell but I won't back down"


Posts: 367 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Chicago
wantmyfamilyback
Member
Member # 33676
Default  Posted: 11:42 PM, September 12th (Wednesday)

You totally get it. This is so amazingly spot on and insightful. Wish I could get WH to read it, but we are separated (again) and he is too damn oblivious.


Me= BS 28
WH= 30
2 OWs
D-Day 1= 7/?/10
D-Day 2= 9/23/11
D-Day 3= 10/16/11
M= almost 9 years
K= DD 2 & DS 6 months
Status= changes almost daily.

Posts: 256 | Registered: Oct 2011
roccodom
Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, September 13th (Thursday)

Great post.

Fits my FWS perfectly.

This is absolutely how he acted after his As. I just hope that this time he recognizes he needs to dig deeper.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 791 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
brokenandfedup
Member
Member # 33186
Default  Posted: 7:03 AM, November 12th (Monday)

I thought I would bump this post again for some of the newbies and for the oldies who might like to re-read this post...


Posts: 519 | Registered: Aug 2011
rollercoaster80
Member
Member # 23412
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, November 12th (Monday)

I have posted about this in the past and I totally agree.

It took fws years before the dry adultery behaviors stopped and even now he will catch his self and correct hisself. Lying and deceptions were an ingrianed coping mechanism. He had to learn new ways to deal with stresses and he had to learn to be honest even when the other person was going to be upset.....avoidance of conflict was one of the issues. FWS used A's to deal with self esteem issues and to cope with life in general....he did this all of his adult life and even n childhood would "entertain" for the woman in his family as a way of getting attention/approval. He did this in his first M as well. The only period he did not use this coping mechanism was when he was using drugs. Another form of self medication. To overcome such an ingrained pattern took alot of work on his part and a desire to change.

I recognize and acknowledge what an effort he had to make to overcome this pattern.....he does slip up once in a while (not with cheating but with the behavior/thought process) and he alwyas catches his self....sometimes with a nudge from me.


me 55 fbw
him 67 FWH/SA
married 32 years
together 31 years my whole adult life!
4 s, 1 stepd, 2 grand kids

multiple A's, 2 LTA's,multiple indescretions...before and throughout our marriage


Posts: 1047 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: sarasota, fl
authenticnow
Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, December 12th (Wednesday)

bump


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 37153 | Registered: Sep 2007
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, December 12th (Wednesday)

I know I am so fresh to this but I think I get this, at least on some level. When DDay first happened I kept saying I'll never do it again, I will never hurt you like this again. He's asked me recently what would make me not do it again because I told him the image of his pain that day has stuck with me and he told me that was his pain, I don't get to use that. I apologized and told him you can't tell me to not feel pain when I remember what that day was like, I still have emotion but its not the only factor anymore. I am ashamed of myself, of lowering my standards to a level I never thought I had in me. Then realizing it was always there, that these coping skills had been there since high school just on a minor level and it kept amount up the older I got. It also went up because my depression had also always been there and was also rising but I had been accustomed to running away from it instead of dealing with it. Now I can see that I never coped with the things that bothered me but rather threw myself into the things that made me feel good and helped me ignore the things that made me depressed. This shit goes back years. I think another step for me is that when I realized how far back it went I talked to my mom, today actually and told her I'd been depressed for years and not dealing with it correctly and this is not her fault. She has been trying to convince me this is recent and telling me she didn't raise me to be string enough, I had to tell her my shit is not recent just recently discovered and she raised me to be strong enough to strip my wayward thinking away and rebuild a new way to think.

My depression is getting the better of me some days though, I've thought of suicide and called myself selfish. Too d myself it is another unhealthy way to cope, a deadly way to cope and would solve nothing but mar what is left of me and hurt everyone else. Those thoughts are infrequent and it hurts that they ever come into my mind, they come unbidden and I will be seeking more help then just my therapist if they continue. I do not need to replace bad coping skills with equally bad coping skills. But I am still a work in progress.

In between arguments and discussions with BBF, crying and bouts of depression, and just pure sorrow I've managed to submit my readmit papers to my college, apply for FASFA and federal loans. Look into private loans to pay for my classes, join a gym, find a therapist, see my friends (FOM), book tickets to see my family and research what type of career path I want.

I think this went on a bit long but the point is although more times then not my depression is getting the best of me, I am terrified of more of our friends ever config out because I already lost one of my best friends I'm sure I'd lose more and not be able to do more then say I deserve it and mourn the loss of more friendships. That may sound selfish but I am ashamed of what I did and am trying hard to own it and not let it own me. I am trying to believe I am good despite it. When I get there, get past it, work through it I'll know I did it and know that I have made myself healthy again and saved myself from well me and my horrible coping skills.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2697 | Registered: Oct 2012
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, December 13th (Thursday)

I'm glad someone bumped this...
I think this is what I was doing after my first affair - just trying to be "good," which is probably how I found myself in my second situation without strict boundaries enforced by myself....
I imagine its easier to jump off that cliff the 2nd time, and believe me it goes a lot faster - fWH and I have talked about this...
there is so much work to do. I think many regret but those who have remorse change their lives....
I will never have a girls night out, stay by myself for a night, etc... and it doesn't feel like I'm giving anything up at all. It feels like I am in a committed relationship, at least from my side.
I worry about fWH and him just trying to "be good." He thinks I should be trusting him 6 months out from 2 affairs because he's been the perfect husband. It goes so far beyond that. It means wanting to do things to make your spouse feel safe... actually being ok doing this...
our lives, especially after so much has happened, will and should not be the same as they were before. There should be extraordinary measures in place and we should be ok with that.

Right now, our marriage is about the same as it was better affairs - just with that bitter sad feeling of having this on top of us. I hope that gets better with time.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4703 | Registered: Dec 2010
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, January 20th (Sunday)

Bumping.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6097 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Steppenwolf
Member
Member # 38140
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, January 21st (Monday)

Thank you


Me: WS- 30s
Her: BS- 30s RockyMtn



Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013
starstruck
Member
Member # 29547
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, January 22nd (Tuesday)

Great thread! So much to think about. Seems to fit the actions of WH. He has not owned his shit--just learned from IC not to beat himself up over the A. His words, not mine.


DDay 7/29/2010
Am hoping to reconcile!! Am I crazy or what?
If we all did the things we are capable of doing we would literally astound ourselves-Thomas Edison

Posts: 323 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: Pa
Irolnyatbest
Member
Member # 37467
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, January 22nd (Tuesday)

Well said. You have to do the work, to heal and become healthy to rebuild the marriage


BS-29
WH-37
DDay 1 02/03/11 EA OW1 (Rugswept)
Dday 2 03/18/12 2 0234 Caught IN THE ACT-EA/PA OW2
WH 1st attempt to R was 06/12.
DDay 3 08/17/12 caught out again with OW2
Living separately, Attempting to truly R
5/5/13 he ended our M again...&#

Posts: 111 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Missouri
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, February 20th (Wednesday)

Bumping for a friend.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6127 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
sickofthelies
Member
Member # 28566
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, February 20th (Wednesday)

As a BS I'd like to say BRAVO!!! Thank you.


BS-43(me)
WH-44 (love of my life)
Children-20,18,& 14
I think I can breath again!!

Posts: 260 | Registered: May 2010 | From: ohio
joeboo
Member
Member # 31089
Default  Posted: 10:35 PM, February 20th (Wednesday)

Thanks for all the thread bumps, I missed this one and glad I read it.

Transparency isn't a punishment for cheating.
This statement is so huge.
If only my wife understood that it leads to this:

It's the only way to love an authentic life.

Even if she left me, she should do that for herself.


Posts: 1208 | Registered: Feb 2011
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, April 5th (Friday)

bump


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7879 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, April 5th (Friday)

OU - thanks to the bump I got to read this one today. Top shelf. Just Top Shelf.

Take care...



Posts: 1427 | Registered: Jan 2012
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, June 7th (Friday)

Embody your potential

Raison d'etre

Brilliant


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2553 | Registered: Aug 2012
IAteTheApple
New Member
Member # 39452
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, June 7th (Friday)

Thanks for the bump.

Posts: 32 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Florida
strongerbytheday
New Member
Member # 38347
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, June 8th (Saturday)

Thank you for this post. I fear this is my WS. Does anyone have the link to read the original part one dry adultery post?


Me: BW
EA/PA 4-5m?
DD 9/11

Posts: 8 | Registered: Feb 2013
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, June 10th (Monday)

Love this.

Thank you UO!


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2220 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
2married2quit
Member
Member # 36555
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, June 10th (Monday)

Amazing! Thank you. We were wondering why our R has paused and not going forward fast enough. I think you addressed some really great reasons. I will give this to her to read.


BS - Me 43 WS - Her 41
DDAY - June 2012 (found the texts)
DDAY2 - Next Day (found out who) EA
TT- till 9/2012 (some PA)
Married 20yrs. 2kids
Status: in careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels

Posts: 1304 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: USA
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, July 11th (Thursday)

Bump for JD


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2553 | Registered: Aug 2012
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, July 11th (Thursday)

Thank you for the bump. Very good summary of things to be VERY wary of. Not a new topic from my alcohol/drug recovery experiences, but an entirely new angle pointing out logical pitfalls and behaviors in the SI world. The parallels are uncanny.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, August 15th (Thursday)

Bump


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6127 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, August 15th (Thursday)

This was a great read, where can I find "part un"?


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1351 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
WoundedOpus
Member
Member # 39521
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, August 16th (Friday)

This was such a great post, and really explained my FWH's behaviors and attitude for YEARS. Infidelity is not the problem, it's a symptom of the problem (a huge horrible destructive symptom!).

We all know the saying: Can't see the forest for the trees.

An A is such a huge tree, with thousands of thorny branches and massive roots, that we (WS & BS) can lose the ability to see anything else. And when minimizing and rug sweeping happens, you may never have the chance to step back from that tree and see all of the others the W had to walk past to end at that big ugly tree. You can chop that A tree down, but if you don't chop down all of the others in the path before and after it, they'll just keep walking through the forest until they eventually reach the next big ugly one.

Thank you so much uncertainone!!


Me: BW 37
Him: WH 38
(DDay: 2/2008)
13 years, 5 kids...Six years of Limbo

“I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well." ~ Diane Ackerman


Posts: 178 | Registered: Jun 2013
Silentthoughts
Member
Member # 40289
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, August 16th (Friday)

You've never dealt what the affair caused you to lose and what it meant. Your escape, your validation, your holes, your boredom, your ego, your attention habit, unresolved FOO issues. All those toxic dysfunctions still alive and well but not having a secret,a person, people, ready and waiting when you slip away to fill, assuage, stroke, feed you. Now you have depression, numbness, just a hint of tapped down rage that echoes with a sharp remark or silence. Withdrawing, detaching, distancing.

Omg that's me. 2.5 years into r and I haven't even really started. Did not even begin to go where I need to go in the ineffective ic I've had. When I find a new therapist I'm bringing this with me.


WW - early 50s (me)
BH - late 40s
3 grown children
Married 25 years
Online cyber sex dec 2010. I got caught late dec 2010. Lying and TT until full disclosure jan 2011.
In R we both are committed to staying in this M.

Posts: 76 | Registered: Aug 2013
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, August 16th (Friday)

Still love this!

My Dad, sober for 35 years often says,

Sometimes I am sober and sometimes I am just not drinking.

I think its a great metaphor for life.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2220 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
catlover50
Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, August 16th (Friday)

This is very timely for me. I was trying to express these sentiments to my f WH yesterday, less eloquently. And it is not just about cheating again, it's about falling into the pattern of withdrawing, being defensive, putting up walls etc that had been his dysfunctional coping mechanisms over the years. I can't go back there. Yet I feel that he is unreasonably confident that he is "better", more "self-aware", especially as he has barely addressed his CSA.

I'm definitely showing him this--thanks!!



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1727 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
3xloser
Member
Member # 34735
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, August 16th (Friday)

Thanks for this. Reminds me of myself and the work I still need to do.

Posts: 134 | Registered: Feb 2012
Topic Posts: 75